User:Blondin Linden/3rd Party Viewer Brown Bag: Session 1 29Oct09
List of Attendees
- Aimee Trescothick
- Arabella Steadham
- Blondin Linden
- Catherine Linden
- Chalice Yao
- Elq Homewood
- Fractured Crystal
- Gigs Taggart
- Gwyneth Llewelyn
- Howard Linden
- JB Hancroft
- Jeska Linden
- Joe Linden
- Lonely Bluebird
- Marty Linden
- Mccabe Maxsted
- Merov Linden
- Moy Loon
- Pete Linden
- Pixel Gausman
- Rob Linden
- Robin Cornelius
- Sitearm Madonna
- Soft Linden
- Stephmo Deckard
- Teagan Linden
- Thickbrick Sleaford
- Torley Linden
Audio Recording
Transcript of the audio
Transcript of the audio provided by Gigs Taggart.
Local Chat: Transcript
| [15:01] | Rob Linden: | hi folks! |
| [15:02] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | hello |
| [15:02] | Rob Linden: | look familiar? :) |
| [15:02] | Sitearm Madonna: | rob, howard, merov, teagan, joe, pete, catherine, viddy the A Team *gulp* |
| [15:02] | Rob Linden: | (this looks just like the Hippotropolis mtg area, where a bunch of us just came from) |
| [15:02] | Joe Linden: | deja vu all over again... |
| [15:03] | Sitearm Madonna: | :) |
| [15:04] | JB Hancroft: | thanks for the TP :) |
| [15:04] | Chalice Yao: | Yo! |
| [15:05] | McCabe Maxsted | waves |
| [15:05] | Chalice Yao: | Can just exchange this with Purple Messenger? |
| [15:05] | Sitearm Madonna: | it's the cutest little island here |
| [15:05] | Chalice Yao: | Also why Z? :p |
| [15:05] | Sitearm Madonna: | reminds me of algonquin park in Canada - lakes and lakes and lakes and islands and islands |
| [15:05] | JB Hancroft: | Oh, I've been there :)) |
| [15:06] | Catherine Linden: | there's a nice burning car around the bend. I call it the PR Island of the Apocalypse |
| [15:06] | JB Hancroft: | eeek |
| [15:06] | Pixel Gausman: | safety in numbers |
| [15:08] | JB Hancroft: | is voice working? |
| [15:08] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | hi folks :) |
| [15:08] | Robin Cornelius: | yes |
| [15:08] | Gigs Taggart: | hehe godlure |
| [15:08] | Robin Cornelius: | Jeska is talking now JB |
| [15:08] | JB Hancroft | nods... (can't hear :( |
| [15:09] | Merov Linden: | yep |
| [15:09] | Teagan Linden: | I can |
| [15:09] | Robin Cornelius: | fine jesika |
| [15:09] | Sitearm Madonna: | jeska - as stated, NO policy in place yet; this is to review with you |
| [15:09] | Howard Linden: | yes |
| [15:09] | Sitearm Madonna: | jeska - first question, what features ARE you using in viewers most frequently |
| [15:09] | Fractured Crystal: | OTR IM encryption |
| [15:10] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Built-in AO ;) |
| [15:10] | Sitearm Madonna | waits for someone to say Breast Physics , besides me |
| [15:10] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | haha Sitearm |
| [15:11] | Sitearm Madonna | raises hand re Breast Physics elaboration |
| [15:11] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | hehe |
| [15:12] | Gigs Taggart: | I have a mic but I'm on speakers right now so until I find headphones I'll cause echos.. brb |
| [15:13] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | :) |
| [15:14] | Sitearm Madonna: | sitearm - breast physics opens the consumer market more |
| [15:14] | Gigs Taggart: | still looking for headphones |
| [15:14] | Sitearm Madonna: | sitearm "returns to the roots of sl as physics world as well as social network" |
| [15:15] | Gigs Taggart: | but my views on OTR--- you don't even consider whether you trust your ISP or not when you use SSL for buying things online... so it shouldn't be viewed as a distrust of LL but rather just a standard security practice |
| [15:15] | Sitearm Madonna: | *concurs on bots |
| [15:15] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | I also like 'temporary uploads' |
| [15:15] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | for textures |
| [15:15] | Gwyneth Llewelyn | *nods* @ Pixel |
| [15:16] | Joe Linden: | /noted, Pixel ;-) |
| [15:16] | Soft Linden: | It uploads as if it were a baked body texture. |
| [15:16] | Merov Linden: | I think it's local to the cache of your machine |
| [15:16] | Soft Linden: | Or has that changed? |
| [15:16] | Robin Cornelius: | A feature i can't live with out is my text only viewers |
| [15:16] | Merov Linden: | great feature BTW! |
| [15:16] | Gwyneth Llewelyn | *nods* @ Fractured |
| [15:17] | Stephmo Deckard | accepted your inventory offer. |
| [15:17] | Pixel Gausman: | Robin:+1 |
| [15:17] | Robin Cornelius: | yay you heard me! |
| [15:18] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | ... barely! :) |
| [15:18] | Sitearm Madonna: | jeska - next question what would you want in a viewer registry to help people make good decisions - what would you want to know about those viewers? |
| [15:18] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Checksum! PGP key! |
| [15:19] | Soft Linden: | +1 Gwyneth |
| [15:19] | Sitearm Madonna: | oohh a User Rating ! |
| [15:19] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | ratings, reviews, comments... |
| [15:19] | Sitearm Madonna: | like Ebay and Amazon |
| [15:19] | Robin Cornelius: | go ahead |
| [15:19] | Jeska Linden: | lonely |
| [15:20] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | yes, Sitearm!! |
| [15:20] | Aimee Trescothick: | "my bots favour my viewer" |
| [15:20] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | That's the trouble, Aimee. How does eBay deal with it? |
| [15:20] | Sitearm Madonna: | in Amazon, you can also Rate the Raters :) |
| [15:21] | Sitearm Madonna: | "most useful positive review" and "must useful negative review" |
| [15:21] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | flag for spam on the ratings? |
| [15:22] | Jeska Linden: | sure |
| [15:22] | Soft Linden: | for any Linden code-based viewer - a link to the source repository would be great |
| [15:22] | Joe Linden: | /is the source available... whether for GPL compliance, or not. |
| [15:22] | Sitearm Madonna | raises hand |
| [15:22] | Chalice Yao: | What OSes the binaries are available for. |
| [15:22] | Chalice Yao: | Especially for non-LL-codebase viewers |
| [15:23] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Chalice, definitely! |
| [15:23] | Gwyneth Llewelyn | is a Mac user ;) |
| [15:23] | Chalice Yao | grins. |
| [15:23] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | oooh good idea!!!! |
| [15:23] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | YES, Sitearm! |
| [15:24] | JB Hancroft | is a bit frustrated with SLVoice at the moment... grrr... but suggests that typing things back to some form of verifiable trust... certs, keys, etc. is needed to establish the tamper/mod-detection of any viewer |
| [15:24] | JB Hancroft: | *tying |
| [15:24] | Gwyneth Llewelyn | votes for Sitearms' suggestion as the *top* one. |
| [15:24] | Pixel Gausman: | i'm uncomfortable with Linden passing judgement on viewers |
| [15:24] | Jeska Linden: | heh |
| [15:24] | JB Hancroft: | can someone chat the suggestion, please? |
| [15:24] | Sitearm Madonna: | whee! |
| [15:25] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Sitearm: official LL reviews, published for all to see |
| [15:25] | Sitearm Madonna: | sitearm - wants LL's position on the viewer for each viewer |
| [15:25] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | :) |
| [15:25] | Sitearm Madonna: | (snap) |
| [15:25] | JB Hancroft: | ahhh |
| [15:25] | JB Hancroft: | I'm not sure that's practical, actually. |
| [15:25] | Sitearm Madonna: | (nods at Marty from legal dept) |
| [15:25] | JB Hancroft: | With regard to interoperability and protocol, certainly doable. |
| [15:26] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | It would help if LL says: "we've used X and Y and it doesn't violate ToS", for instance |
| [15:26] | JB Hancroft: | With regard to LL asserting that the viewer contains no other rogue/unknown code... ehhh |
| [15:26] | Gigs Taggart: | A viewer can't violate the ToS |
| [15:26] | Gigs Taggart: | No more than a gun gets up and shoots someone |
| [15:26] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Actually, Gigs, that's a good question for the legal department to answer :) |
| [15:26] | Joe Linden: | 17 reasons |
| [15:27] | Pixel Gausman: | only 17? :-) |
| [15:27] | Aimee Trescothick: | I'm not sure I'm recalling correctly but I think Philip suggested a bounty on someone coming up with ways to benchmark 'lag' |
| [15:27] | Sitearm Madonna: | lol joe |
| [15:28] | Robin Cornelius: | Aimee he did |
| [15:28] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | One second, I'm trying to quote something from the ToS... since Legal is here |
| [15:28] | Aimee Trescothick: | if someone did you could have a league table :) |
| [15:28] | Sitearm Madonna: | jeska - now for your questions, IM them to Blondin |
| [15:28] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION: i am curious how linden will present the viewer registry? i guess i'm worried about what you will imply of a viewer that *isn't* on the list? |
| [15:28] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | JB: if you have questions, ask Blondin in IM |
| [15:28] | JB Hancroft | nods to Gwyneth... :) |
| [15:29] | Sitearm Madonna: | joe - replies |
| [15:30] | Blondin Linden: | 30 Minutes Left! IM me your questions!! |
| [15:33] | Pixel Gausman: | thx |
| [15:33] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION - what about emulating WordPress - their .com blog service is closed with official widgets but their .org service is more open to test and beta code from third parties; allows both a stable and an exploratory environment for viewer developers and users |
| [15:33] | Thickbrick Sleaford: | Joe: that's very good to hear |
| [15:33] | Jeska Linden: | we got you sitearm |
| [15:35] | Jeska Linden | nods |
| [15:36] | Blondin Linden: | Many of the viewers that people are upset about are violating the GPL anyway. Is this effort going to be coupled with increased enforcement of GPL compliance? |
| [15:36] | Sitearm Madonna: | (nods) |
| [15:36] | Sitearm Madonna: | sitearm - have "stable" and "experimental" as categories of listed viewers |
| [15:36] | Pixel Gausman: | Sitearm: is the stable/unstable something the viewer developer decides? |
| [15:36] | Sitearm Madonna: | @pixel - probably yes :) |
| [15:37] | JB Hancroft | nods... good question, about the GPL |
| [15:37] | Blondin Linden: | Are you intending to take more decisive action regarding viewers that you come to the determination violate the ToS or harm the service |
| [15:38] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | (while you wait for your question to be read by Blondin and be answered, here's a +quite+ interesting article: http://blog.vrhacks.net/?p=154 (see my earlier remark about knowing a bit more about who is behind the viewers) |
| [15:39] | JB Hancroft | heads away, to burn his audio card... (waves to all :) |
| [15:41] | Pixel Gausman: | so a bad registry along with a good registry? |
| [15:41] | Soft Linden: | asking policy statements, versus technical solutions |
| [15:43] | Blondin Linden: | I'd like to ask if viewers designed to work primarily for OpenSim would be eligible for the approved viewer list |
| [15:43] | Sitearm Madonna: | oohh |
| [15:43] | Pixel Gausman: | oh good question |
| [15:43] | Pixel Gausman | perks |
| [15:43] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION: what about the possibility of limited viewers, would they be considered acceptable as well? Such as viewers that were only used in conjunction with an inworld game or only limited functionality, not TOS violating, but not with all viewer capabilities. Would this be acceptable on the registry? |
| [15:44] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | ah, good question! |
| [15:44] | Soft Linden: | ie Robin's text viewer |
| [15:44] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | e.g. text-only viewers |
| [15:44] | Rob Linden: | sure |
| [15:44] | Gwyneth Llewelyn | *nods* @ Soft |
| [15:44] | Soft Linden: | (insert RLV joke here) |
| [15:45] | Moy Loon: | Heh |
| [15:45] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION: what about a 'bot registry? (Yes, I'm aware of Jack Linden's new initiative, and I've flagged all my bots as such, but... would there be a similar registry for 'bots too? |
| [15:46] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Oh, *one* registry! Got it |
| [15:46] | Soft Linden: | So it's more a client registry than a viewer registry |
| [15:46] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | right, Soft1 |
| [15:46] | Jeska Linden: | Bot blog post if you missed it: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/10/21/setting-a-scripted-agent-status |
| [15:47] | Blondin Linden: | question - QUESTION: how soon will the sl server side code be able to be updated to prohibit illicit copying via viewer; or is that always going to be a risk? |
| [15:47] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | :)))) |
| [15:47] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | before or after we encounter intelligent life in outer space? :) |
| [15:50] | Jeska Linden: | https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/08/04/our-content-management-roadmap |
| [15:50] | Sitearm Madonna: | gigs - inherent until we have server side rendering |
| [15:50] | Sitearm Madonna: | (nods at jeska) |
| [15:51] | Sitearm Madonna: | (ty) |
| [15:51] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION: Will a viewer that allows standard functions like saving assets locally that are already downloaded locally regardless of permission be allowed on the registry. |
| [15:51] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | :) |
| [15:51] | Sitearm Madonna: | o_O |
| [15:51] | Gigs Taggart: | :P |
| [15:51] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | heh. |
| [15:52] | Sitearm Madonna: | *tries to parse that* |
| [15:52] | Blondin Linden: | 8 Minutes Left! Time to submit questions before we wrap it up!! |
| [15:55] | Chalice Yao: | The basic question that Gigs is asking: Will viewers be allowed on the registry that disregard permissions of assets, like textures. I.e. viewers that let you download any texture as a clear image file. |
| [15:56] | Sitearm Madonna: | *Marti can't be a lawyer he makes too much sense - he'd be good talking on NFL Football too* |
| [15:56] | Sitearm Madonna: | *Marty |
| [15:56] | Blondin Linden: | QUESTION: what guidance will there be for what features do/do not violate the ToS? And will this be something that we police between ourselves, and what can we expect from LL if a viewer in the registry is released with a feature that's deemed to violate the ToS? |
| [15:58] | Robin Cornelius: | Can i add a quick follow up question to marty regarding the last point of backup import/export? |
| [15:59] | Sitearm Madonna: | I'm glad you're pursuing 3rd party viewers, tough as it is |
| [15:59] | Pixel Gausman: | thx for hosting this. |
| [15:59] | Marty Linden: | thank you all for coming |
| [15:59] | Chalice Yao: | Thanks for having us. |
| [15:59] | Merov Linden: | great chat |
| [15:59] | Sitearm Madonna: | thanks for all the fish! |
| [15:59] | Gwyneth Llewelyn: | Thanks for listening |
| [15:59] | Soft Linden: | w00t w00t |
| [15:59] | Sitearm Madonna: | :) |
| [16:00] | Howard Linden: | thanks all |
| [16:00] | Pete Linden: | thanks, all |
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