User:Bridie Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 01

Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	Hey all - we'll wait for a few mins for other folks to show up before we start bug triagin'
[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Viewer_Crashes_Agenda
[15:00]	Torley Linden:	So alas, most of the time, the original creator or Resident with permissions would need to fix that themselves.
[15:00]	Daedalus Young:	ok, thanks Torley
[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	thanks for info Torley
[15:00]	Torley Linden:	You're welcome!
[15:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	hey a question for any and all open source types. Has there been any serious discussion on how to add scripting to the client itself?
[15:01]	Torley Linden:	Saijanai, explain more please?
[15:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	ala WOW GUI and API scripting
[15:01]	Benja Kepler:	can I ask about the new beacon menu items in the First Look viewer? I don't see them mentioned in the Release Notes
[15:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API
[15:01]	Torley Linden:	Ahhh good question Benja, that's slated for 1.18.1 but that's not the main viewer version yet. Jake added that to clean up some old confusion, he did want mention of it in the 1.18.1 release notes -- so watch for that.
[15:02]	Benja Kepler:	ok, thx
[15:02]	Torley Linden:	NP!
[15:02]	Torley Linden:	I've used some external macro programs to automate a few things in SL before, e.g., sending postcards.
[15:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I know several people (including me) who want to add this kind of thing, but I'd like some clear indication of a design stage before programming
[15:02]	Torley Linden:	*looks at the crashes we've got on the list*
[15:03]	Saijanai Kuhn:	brows the API and GUI sections of that URL. Its a little more than just a macro program can handle
[15:03]	Bridie Linden:	Will do
[15:03]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the question is: WHAT should SL client scripting allow access to?
[15:04]	Torley Linden:	Heya Rob!
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Good timing Rob!
[15:04]	Rob Linden:	hiya
[15:04]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[15:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	hey rob. Informal question before the meeting: how powerful should client scripting be in SL?
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Saijanai has some interesting questions around SL client scripting...
[15:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	with this being the high-end? http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API
[15:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I know several people with conflicting agendas who are already trying to do something like this.
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	Aric Linden's on his way - then we'll move into the bug triage agenda...
[15:06]	Rob Linden shrugs
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	Maybe you 2 can discuss @ Open Source meeting?
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	Afternoon all.
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	Hi Wyn, Kitto
[15:06]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[15:06]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	just about ready to start....
[15:06]	Torley Linden:	These are such cozy seats.
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	A few standard opening remarks before we dive in...
[15:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	OK. Jus ta food for thought thing
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks again for coming! We really value your help and feedback!
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	/ao off
[15:07]	Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[15:07]	Kitto Flora brings a newly posted problem
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	If you're new to our triages -- please be sure to take a look @ http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage#Process_notes
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Can we wait til the end Kitto?
[15:07]	Kitto Flora:	Probably
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith can't turn her feet off.
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	We'll be on the look out for good repros, system info, linking duplicate issues, making sure priority is set correctly...
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	I'm planning to keep this a text-chat triage (as opposed to using voice). I'll be posting the transcripts after each triage, too. Make a landmark so it's easy to come back here next week!
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	the agenda is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Viewer_Crashes_Agenda
[15:08]	Wyn Galbraith:	brb
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	Let's see how far we get today!
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	Np, Wyn
[15:08]	Disconnected from in-world Voice Chat
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	Your help creating/editing the agenda each week is welcome - hint, hint.
[15:08]	Torley Linden:	Heya Aric!
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	hi Aric!
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	Great timing
[15:08]	Aric Linden:	hi hi
[15:08]	Aric Linden:	sorry i'm late
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	I think we're ready to dive in...
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	I have the block o' wood urler here...
[15:09]	Rex Cronon:	hello everyboyd
[15:09]	Rex Cronon:	everybody*
[15:09]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	So starting with VWR-1890
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	Click on block for URL
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	Working for everyone?
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	FIrst Look crashes with ATI Mobility Radeon x600 x86/SSE2 graphics card
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	Hi Rex - we just started
[15:10]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's better.
[15:10]	Torley Linden:	URLer doesn't work for me...
[15:10]	Daedalus Young:	it worked for me after a few touches
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	Click on text maybe?
[15:10]	Daedalus Young:	holding down a few seconds
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	else, http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1890
[15:10]	Torley Linden:	Ah I see it after several clicks.
[15:11]	Rob Linden:	/ brb
[15:11]	Torley Linden:	OK... 1890's specifically for First Look: Voice eh... I haven't heard anyone else having that prob.
[15:11]	Rex Cronon:	i don't think i ever come to your office hours birdie. i just want to see what is happening here:)
[15:11]	Aric Linden:	I think this should be closed.
[15:11]	Aric Linden:	it's a by-product of the build/release process
[15:12]	Torley Linden:	How do you mean, Aric?
[15:12]	Bridie Linden:	?
[15:12]	Aric Linden:	the beta and first look viewers aren't not necessarlily kept concurrent
[15:12]	Aric Linden:	with other builds
[15:13]	Aric Linden:	they're different code bases
[15:13]	Kitto Flora:	Thats plenty confusing
[15:13]	Aric Linden:	u bet!
[15:13]	Torley Linden:	From first glance this sounds like a flare-up of the internal "ATI X300 and X600 laptops crash before reaching the login screen" bug which was resolved awhile ago -- since info here is sparse I'm fine with closing it too, "Cannot Reproduce"?
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	Try with latest viewer?
[15:14]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's typical for previews to come from different code bases.
[15:14]	Torley Linden:	We really do need more info on this one, in any case.
[15:14]	Torley Linden:	"Needs More Info" sound good to y'all?
[15:14]	Squirrel Wood:	Very much so
[15:14]	Wyn Galbraith nods.
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, next up...
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1911 - hanging at connecting to region
[15:15]	Torley Linden:	K!
[15:15]	Wyn Galbraith had that happen yesterday.
[15:15]	Bridie Linden:	Box work for everyone?
[15:15]	Daedalus Young:	cube works
[15:15]	Kitto Flora:	Not this time
[15:15]	Kitto Flora:	got it
[15:15]	Bridie Linden:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1911
[15:16]	Bridie Linden:	So is 1911 related to issues over the weekend?
[15:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Could be.
[15:16]	Torley Linden:	It's not conclusive but I wonder if this is happening now, hasn't been updated since Sunday.
[15:16]	Wyn Galbraith ponders stateJail.
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	Resolve as "fixed", ask TigroSpottystripes to try again now?
[15:17]	Torley Linden:	Hmm...
[15:17]	Torley Linden:	while there's a workaround it looks like a problem that may come up again in the future.
[15:17]	Torley Linden:	There is info in here that may help us track future occurences. This isn't a crash per se, but perhaps worth importing to investigate more?
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Aric, what say you?
[15:18]	Aric Linden:	sorry. phone call. let me catch up here
[15:18]	Aric Linden:	I agree with torley.
[15:18]	Aric Linden:	I think it would be worth someones time to read the logs
[15:18]	Torley Linden:	Thanks... *imports*
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	KK
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	next up, VWR-1926 Crash on Login (attempt 1)
[15:19]	Daedalus Young:	yes, that happens to me too
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1926
[15:19]	Daedalus Young:	so it's not only PPC Mac, also Intel Mac
[15:21]	Bridie Linden:	Lex resolved as a duple, but then it was reopened...
[15:21]	Aric Linden:	I agree with the summary about DNS returning an page not found. But I suspect that this is related to our DB probs
[15:21]	Daedalus Young:	yes, was resolved as dupe of DNS problems I think
[15:22]	Daedalus Young:	but the issue is it crashed on it, not that there are DNS problems
[15:22]	Bridie Linden:	I suspect the same thing, Aric
[15:22]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm...
[15:22]	Daedalus Young:	it happened to me yesterday when logins were temp closed
[15:23]	Daedalus Young:	but when all was back up, I didn't get the (attempt 1)
[15:23]	Bridie Linden:	But not happening now, right?
[15:23]	Daedalus Young:	no
[15:23]	Aric Linden:	I think it might be worth asking if it is still happening
[15:23]	Bridie Linden:	Import and try to investigate crashes on network failures?
[15:24]	Daedalus Young:	it is still happening, but only sometimes, I think when trying to log into a down region
[15:24]	Aric Linden:	no. I don't think there's enough evidence that it's DNS and not DB
[15:24]	Squirrel Wood:	Mayhaps add in a specific message "Cannot log in due to disabled logins. See blog for details" ?
[15:25]	Torley Linden:	Sorry, the irony... I crashed.
[15:25]	Bridie Linden:	So, resolve 'needs more info'?
[15:25]	Aric Linden:	lol
[15:25]	Bridie Linden:	We're still on 1926 Torley
[15:25]	Torley Linden:	What more info are we looking for here? I'll leave a note.
[15:25]	Aric Linden:	evidence that it's dns not db
[15:25]	Bridie Linden:	If it's still happening now that our grid issues have settled down.
[15:25]	Torley Linden:	Kk.
[15:26]	Daedalus Young:	I'll try next time I encounter a down region
[15:26]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, moving right along....
[15:26]	Aric Linden:	Thanks Daedalus
[15:26]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1895 - black screen, no keyboard response
[15:26]	Daedalus Young:	welcome
[15:26]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1895
[15:26]	Rex Cronon:	oh, that i mine
[15:26]	Bridie Linden:	From Rex!
[15:27]	Kitto Flora:	Looks related to the one I just posted
[15:27]	Bridie Linden:	What number Kitto?
[15:27]	Torley Linden:	Can you please link related issues? :)
[15:27]	Torley Linden:	Helps us keep track!
[15:27]	Kitto Flora:	SVC495
[15:28]	Kitto Flora:	Which is the next step - Cancel... but the result looks the same
[15:28]	Kitto Flora:	Viewer disconnected from all sims and stuck in teleport?
[15:28]	Rex Cronon:	but, wathever u the lindens did friday and/or during the weekend, it has stopped. only the viewer crashes, no longer black screen
[15:28]	Torley Linden:	Interesting... so it's like you get stuck...
[15:28]	Torley Linden:	Rex, how can you repro this today? Is it reliable?
[15:28]	Kitto Flora:	Oh - Fixed for you now ReX?
[15:28]	Torley Linden:	Is it anywhere you TP, or just some places, etc.?
[15:28]	Rex Cronon:	i no longer get a black screen
[15:28]	Wyn Galbraith has seen that before... once.
[15:29]	Torley Linden:	Are you sending crash reports to us Rex?
[15:29]	Kitto Flora' problem is there today - deal with later
[15:29]	Aric Linden:	that sometimes happens when the sim is unavailable
[15:29]	Rex Cronon:	i get a error window and the viewer ends
[15:29]	Rex Cronon:	i think i sent quite a few
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	could that be the same thing that happens when you fly across the mainland at high speed... fast enough for the sims to not being able to follow through with the handovers?
[15:30]	Rex Cronon:	i usually go to either rausch or swt
[15:30]	Wyn Galbraith gets snapped back.
[15:30]	Torley Linden:	(from you)
[15:30]	Rex Cronon:	black screen, no keyboard
[15:30]	Torley Linden:	The viewer just stalls at the black screen and it doesn't actually crash, right?
[15:30]	Benja Kepler:	is the whole screen black, I mean, can you still see the viewer's menu line?
[15:31]	Squirrel Wood:	as if it is in a loop or waiting for something...
[15:31]	Kitto Flora:	That description *is* similar to mine
[15:31]	Torley Linden:	Squirrel: Usually when that happens to me I get a disconnect message.
[15:31]	Rex Cronon:	i think the last one or two i might have sent the reports, i too happy that i didn't get a black scree:)
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	Is it just the black screen of walking into nothingness??
[15:31]	Torley Linden:	Hmm I don't have any more recent crash reports from this time period, Rex.
[15:31]	Torley Linden:	E.g., the viewer doesn't quit.
[15:31]	Benja Kepler:	(I haven't seen this but, as the weather has dramatically improved, I haven't logged on much since last week)
[15:31]	Aric Linden:	the question is< can this be reproduced reliably or is it network or system?
[15:32]	Torley Linden:	Kitto, your bug is a dupe of another... I'll link them up...
[15:32]	Kitto Flora:	Looks for which - could find no dupe earlier...
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	good question Aric...
[15:32]	Torley Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1664
[15:32]	Rex Cronon:	it looks like a network
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	So what shall we do wtih 1895?
[15:33]	Aric Linden:	if it can be reliably reproed, i'd like to import it now. if not, i think we should close as dup.
[15:33]	Rex Cronon:	like a the veiwer is stuck in a never ending loop
[15:33]	Rex Cronon:	i can't see anything benja
[15:33]	Benja Kepler:	oh, ok, Rex
[15:34]	Bridie Linden:	So, can you repro reliably, Rex?
[15:34]	Torley Linden:	Rex, how often are you able to do this?
[15:34]	Rex Cronon:	can u leave it open for one more week?
[15:34]	Bridie Linden:	Sure
[15:34]	Torley Linden:	:)
[15:34]	Rex Cronon:	if it happens again i will send the crash report
[15:34]	Bridie Linden:	Or resovle as 'needs more info' for you to investigate REx
[15:34]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, let's do that.
[15:35]	Torley Linden:	If there's new info, please reopen.
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks, yes!
[15:35]	Torley Linden:	We should at the very least have a way to make this happen over and over.
[15:35]	Torley Linden:	*resolves*
[15:35]	Rex Cronon:	ok, i hope it stays closed
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Me too!
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, next up
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1459 - Unexpected crash in Mac OS X: Using a menu?
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1459
[15:36]	Torley Linden:	Ah I remember asking about that awhile back...
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Kind of old...
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	No other comments, 1 vote...
[15:36]	Torley Linden:	Log is attached but no one else who jumped in to say they can repor this.
[15:36]	Torley Linden:	*repro
[15:36]	Daedalus Young:	no, can't say I've seen this on my Mac
[15:36]	Torley Linden:	I suspect we can go with "Cannot Reproduce" and let Alos Fellini reopen it with new info if it happens again.
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Not here either :)
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	sounds good Torley
[15:37]	Torley Linden:	It seems like a one-off oddity.
[15:37]	Torley Linden:	*resolves*
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	Ok next
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1690 - SL Locks up, and TCP/IP temporarily fails for whole system
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1690
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	OS is windows 2003 server for that one
[15:38]	Torley Linden:	Interesting, I'm unable to test that...
[15:38]	Torley Linden:	Aric, have you heard of anything like this?
[15:38]	Aric Linden:	no
[15:38]	Aric Linden:	this state is in use all the time in voice testing and use
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood:	according to the comment its just the 2003 server machine that has this problem
[15:38]	Aric Linden:	I haven't heard of anyone having this problem.
[15:38]	Torley Linden:	Reporter makes no mention of whether their firewall is on/off...
[15:39]	Torley Linden:	that has been a factor in some Voice issues.
[15:39]	Benja Kepler:	on that O/S they should know...
[15:39]	Bridie Linden:	Hmmm
[15:39]	Squirrel Wood:	my firewall is on and voice works
[15:39]	Aric Linden:	and there are a bunch of specific setttings on server 2003 that might impact this
[15:39]	Torley Linden:	Sounds like we need more info, then? :)
[15:39]	Bridie Linden nods
[15:39]	Torley Linden:	Anything in particular they should look out for, Aric?
[15:39]	Aric Linden:	it's the way server is configured; you can have in and outbound settings configured in odd ways.
[15:40]	Aric Linden:	security settings, firewall settings, port access settings
[15:40]	Aric Linden:	anything that would speak tcp/ip
[15:40]	Rob Linden:	I suspect a lot of these are going to be "need more info" type problems. what would be really cool would be if some interested residents helped out by IMing these reporters and getting that info
[15:40]	Torley Linden:	Rob: Yes, that's been my experience too.
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	Good suggestion Rob!
[15:41]	Torley Linden:	We've definitely come across a lot of "Need More Info" so far.
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	Is that a hint Rob?
[15:41]	Rob Linden:	*nudge*
[15:41]	Rob Linden:	:)
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	The more help getting to the bottom of these issues, the better.
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	Perhaps a list of general "Things that you should include if XXX happens:" for certain types of issues
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	Rob is always subtle.
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	On this last one? I'll IM them.
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	:)
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith noticed.
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	Thx Wyn!
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	might help
[15:41]	Torley Linden:	Kooky, yeah, I agree. Thanks!
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	(for noticing and IMing)
[15:42]	Aric Linden:	kooky, i can put something like that together
[15:42]	Aric Linden:	won't be for a week or so tho
[15:42]	Bridie Linden waves to late arrivals!
[15:42]	Rob Linden:	/nick MrSubtle
[15:42]	Torley Linden:	Yeah at Bridie's last office hour we were mentioning "boilerplate" info...
[15:42]	Wyn Galbraith should do something rather than warm a virtual seat.
[15:42]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, moving on...
[15:42]	Rex Cronon:	maybe an invitation could be sent to those whose error are going to be discussed at the triage?
[15:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	So you want more information on VWR-1690, correct?
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1950 - Make "Report Abuse" always available even after sim crash
[15:43]	Torley Linden:	Yes, Wyn, I just left a comment too... thanks. =)
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood:	1950 is not a viewer but sim crash / abuse report issue / feature request ?
[15:43]	Torley Linden:	I suspect VWR-1950 may be not feasible.
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1950
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	Torley - if we can not be disconnected from the grid when a sim crashes, its more than feasable
[15:44]	Torley Linden:	I wonder how much work that'd take.
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	tp home ?
[15:44]	Kooky Jetaime:	What we need (Feature request here) is a way to (re) connect to the grid if a sim goes down
[15:44]	Bridie Linden:	move to feature request?
[15:44]	Rex Cronon:	there might be a solution to that
[15:44]	Torley Linden:	Bridie, this already is a "Feature Request" I see.
[15:44]	Bridie Linden:	Oh, indeed it is
[15:44]	Kitto Flora:	gets 'does not exist'
[15:44]	Torley Linden:	And by the way, switching users without exiting the viewer or relogging is non-trivial, I checked ages ago with James about that.
[15:44]	Daedalus Young:	did you click the box, Kitto?
[15:44]	Rex Cronon:	can the viewer write to a text file the latest 20 pushes, either by scripts or objects?
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	"Sim crash imminent. Teleporting you home..." ?
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	you may have a double url that way
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	Squirrel - nice...
[15:45]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[15:45]	Kitto Flora:	Wood box
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	VWR-1950
[15:45]	Kitto Flora:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1950
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	try clicking it now :)
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'd suggest monitoring Packets In/Out.. If level falls to 2 per second of both (effectively disconnected) fall back to Home sim, or nearest available
[15:45]	Kitto Flora:	ERROR The project you are trying to view does not exist. Try browsing for projects.
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	since you are already connected to neighboring sims, if I recall my structure correctly
[15:45]	Kitto Flora:	Same problem
[15:46]	Torley Linden:	This issue was filed recently so, it looks like we can let it stay as is and see if it garners interest from many others?
[15:46]	Bridie Linden:	hint, hint
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	Kitto, VWR-1950 ,try clicking the box now
[15:46]	Rex Cronon:	1950
[15:46]	Rex Cronon:	?
[15:46]	Rex Cronon:	there are lots of people that are interested in that
[15:46]	Torley Linden:	Rex -- they should comment and vote if so.
[15:46]	Kitto Flora:	Oh - somehow URLS are stacking up....
[15:46]	Bridie Linden nods
[15:47]	Torley Linden:	So often we hear "lots of people would love it", but they don't vote or show their support.
[15:47]	Rex Cronon:	how can they comment on something they don't know it exists?
[15:47]	Torley Linden:	Rex: By the original reporter spreading the word.
[15:47]	Kooky Jetaime:	Torley - is there any way to track the number of users who actually use jira?
[15:47]	Torley Linden:	But anyhoo, since this is a feature request, it looks like we can move on, Bridie?
[15:47]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, next...
[15:47]	Wyn Galbraith sent IM to Planetthoughts Raymaker for VWR-1690. Mission completed, resident is offline.
[15:47]	Torley Linden:	Kooky: We can certainly track how many have logged in -- Rob knows more about various statistics!
[15:48]	Benja Kepler:	Torley, is there a way of voting on the blog for issues? (rather than residents logging into PJIRA)
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1938 - Second Life Viewer crashes on login
[15:48]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Wyn. :)
[15:48]	Rex Cronon:	if that person does that that, he/she will become the target of griefers
[15:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	Np, Torley.
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1938
[15:48]	Rob Linden:	Benja: nope
[15:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	I think that for a lot of people pjira is just too complex
[15:48]	Daedalus Young:	this is dupe of the (attmpet 1) crash
[15:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	(think being the operative word)
[15:48]	Torley Linden:	Benja: You can link directly to an issue's vote but you still need to login. For now (until we have more unified authentication perhaps, in the future).
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	Yup Daedalus
[15:48]	Benja Kepler:	ok, thx, Torley
[15:49]	Rex Cronon:	maybe we can vote from inside world
[15:49]	Torley Linden:	OK, we can close this out as a dupe then.
[15:49]	Squirrel Wood:	the login link on jira needs to be made more prominent.
[15:49]	Bridie Linden:	dupe of 1926
[15:49]	Kooky Jetaime:	That was one advantage to the forced login when pjira went online.
[15:49]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Bridie!
[15:49]	Kitto Flora thinks Jira is an excellent tool for discouraging bug reports.
[15:49]	Aric Linden:	lol
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Squirrel on the login link. "Also, when you link a issue to another issue, does it link both ways?
[15:50]	Torley Linden:	Wyn: Yes, linking is bidirectional.
[15:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	pjira does have some flaws.... I'm sure everyone here can agree on that.
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	Good, that is a must. :)
[15:50]	Torley Linden:	I wish it would auto-link dupes when I resolved them as such too, that'd be nice.
[15:50]	Bridie Linden:	Next, # VWR-1956 - After exit of 1.18.0(6) under MacOS X, dock stays hidden
[15:50]	Torley Linden:	VWR-1956 doesn't sound like a crash.
[15:50]	Benja Kepler:	Torley, perhaps a 'Hustings' section on the forums?
[15:50]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1956
[15:50]	Torley Linden:	Sounds like an OS-specific UI issue.
[15:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	Put it on the wishlist, Torley ;)
[15:51]	Bridie Linden:	No, it doesn't!
[15:51]	Torley Linden:	What is a "Hustings"?
[15:51]	Torley Linden:	(I've contacted Atlassian, makers of JIRA, about a number of things. They have great Live Help.)
[15:51]	Benja Kepler:	a platform for representatives to get votes for something....
[15:51]	Daedalus Young:	I haven't seen this happening
[15:51]	Daedalus Young:	then again, when do I ever exit SL?
[15:51]	Kitto Flora:	[Hustings == Polittical campaigning]
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	Votes people ^^
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Daedalus
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	lol
[15:52]	Torley Linden:	Ah re: campaigning some people are already using Technical Issues / Feature Suggestions for that AFAIK.
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith would be that way but actually sleeps sometimes.
[15:52]	Aric Linden:	There is nothing in SL that would account for this issue
[15:52]	anid Congrejo:	Have a nice day. Good night from Denmark.
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	Torley, do you want to move 1956 or change components?
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	Or close as no repro?
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	Goodnight Denmark!
[15:52]	Aric Linden:	good night anid
[15:52]	Daedalus Young:	greetings, Denmark
[15:52]	Torley Linden:	Close as "Won't Fix" since it's not SL?
[15:52]	Aric Linden:	agrees
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	Sleep sweet.
[15:53]	Torley Linden:	OK! *resolves*
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	Ooo... the SL client does not detect the amount of ram I have in my system properly. It thinks 2GB when there's 4GB with 3GB usable by winbooze..
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	Time for one more or did Kitto still have question about a new bug?
[15:53]	Squirrel Wood:	then again, STEAM does the same
[15:53]	Kooky Jetaime:	Same here Squirrel
[15:53]	Daedalus Young:	oh! would the dock be hidden when running full-screen?
[15:53]	Kitto Flora:	Torley quoted the duplicate...
[15:54]	Kitto Flora:	Is it on Lindens list to be dealt with?
[15:54]	Daedalus Young:	then SL maybe doesn't close correctly so the dock remains hidden
[15:54]	Daedalus Young:	well if it's the client that doesn't tell the OS all is clear
[15:54]	Torley Linden:	Kitto: The "frozen after teleport"? Yes, it's on Studio Blacklight's watchlist. Having a solid repro for that helps a lot.
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	So it might be a housekeeping issue then.
[15:54]	Kitto Flora:	VWR1664 is the dupe - why its in viewre when its a teleport (SVC) issue I don't know.
[15:55]	Kitto Flora:	Here and in Aditi
[15:55]	Kitto Flora:	I can 100% duplicate
[15:55]	Rex Cronon:	i had that problem too
[15:55]	Bridie Linden:	Back to 1956, we're ok w/'won't fix' or should it be 'cannot repro'?
[15:56]	Torley Linden:	I can change that...
[15:56]	Daedalus Young:	it's can't repro now, which I think is fine
[15:56]	Torley Linden:	I had closed it as "Won't Fix"...
[15:56]	Torley Linden:	OK... that sounds fine to me too.
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	Probably a definate needs more ifno
[15:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	info
[15:56]	Daedalus Young:	and I added a question if this relates to full screen mode
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	Thx Daedalus
[15:56]	Torley Linden:	Yeah thanks Daedalus. :)
[15:56]	Daedalus Young:	yw
[15:57]	Torley Linden:	"Needs More Info" then, benefit of the doubt.
[15:57]	Rex Cronon:	.
[15:57]	Daedalus Young:	sounds good
[15:57]	Torley Linden:	Hehe I like seeing when Residents have wiki pages pointing to Issue Tracker ( http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:JW_Russell )
[15:57]	Torley Linden was just browsing.
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	I think we'll stop here for today...
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	thx Torley
[15:57]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Bridie!
[15:57]	Benja Kepler:	ok, cool
[15:57]	Benja Kepler:	thx Bridie
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming -- looks like we have some more for next wek!
[15:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks Bridie.
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	er, week!
[15:57]	Torley Linden:	Squirrel -- oh I replied earlier. =)
[15:57]	Squirrel Wood pokes Torleys mailbox ^^
[15:58]	Torley Linden:	It sounds like moving forward we should have a quicker way to handle the "Needs More Info" and of course have community help.
[15:58]	Rex Cronon:	i think i had perfect timing in comming to this office hour:)
[15:58]	Torley Linden:	What do y'all think?
[15:58]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks Aric, Rob and Torley!
[15:58]	Bridie Linden:	I thought I saw Coco swing through too...
[15:58]	Torley Linden:	Yeah I saw Coco earlier too.
[15:58]	Aric Linden:	sure. thanks to the residents for coming
[15:58]	Bridie Linden:	Yes!!
[15:58]	Squirrel Wood:	heh
[15:59]	Aric Linden:	c ya all later.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	That reminds me of that show, The Prisoner.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	Have a good one Aric!
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith use to be 'works on my machine' Wyn.
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yes thanks to Aric, Rob and "Need more info" Torley.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	Hahaha.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	"We... need more information."
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	hahah
[15:59]	Benja Kepler:	watermelonlindenlandneedsmoreinfoman
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	lol
[15:59]	Squirrel Wood:	Thanks for considering our input on all this :)
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	Later!
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	Good to see you inworld or on the Issue Tracker.
[15:59]	Torley Linden sends some more hi-rez postcards!
[15:59]	Kitto Flora:	You won't get it.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	Thanks for joining us and helping!
[15:59]	Rex Cronon:	torley, if my bug happens again, i really don't want to try to repeat it, as i have to turn power off manually while the hdd is working:(
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	Good Benja.
[15:59]	Torley Linden:	That sux Rex. :\
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	Rob - Is there any way we can get some statistics on pjira usage? Specifically I think good places to start would be # of residents who've logged on, logged on more than 5 times (sign of return users), # who've opened issues, # who've commented on issues, and some voting statistics.. # who have voted.. etc
[16:00]	Rob Linden:	thanks everyone...see ya
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	B-bye!!! :D
[16:00]	Rex Cronon:	bye rob
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	I don't know if any stats like those have ever been tracked but it would be a good idea.
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	bye rob.
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	I /THINK/ half the reason voting is down is a lot of people don't frequent the pjira because its too confusing for the "average" person, and those who do come often don't vote, or don't do anything aside from registering their own gripes
[16:00]	Squirrel Wood:	cya ^^
[16:00]	Torley Linden:	Oh BTW for those of you who haven't heard yet, postcards can now be sent at hi-rez with higher JPEG quality... try it! I'll be making a blog post tomorrow.
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	kool
[16:00]	Bridie Linden:	Torley did a blog post on some PJIRA stats a while ago...
[16:00]	Daedalus Young:	oh nice Torley
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith would someday like to stand up and not be standing on the funiture.
[16:01]	Torley Linden:	I'll be doing more bug stats in the future, there's always more to report on.
[16:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	a reminder: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153
[16:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm. I want more blog posts to keep me occupied during me workday ^^
[16:01]	Torley Linden:	Thanx for hosting us Bridie! =)
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	Blog posts from who, Squirrel?
[16:01]	Daedalus Young:	it's just that I found mailing Snapshots fail a lot currently
[16:01]	Squirrel Wood:	/ao on
[16:01]	Daedalus Young:	and sometimes it says it fails, while it didn't
[16:01]	Torley Linden:	Daedalus: I've seen errors like that too, yeah... seems to be more than before.
[16:01]	Rex Cronon:	oh, can lindens also open the comments whey they make blog posts?
[16:01]	Bridie Linden:	Kooky --> http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/06/28/the-bug-fixing-adventures-continue/
[16:01]	Torley Linden:	Rex: We open them for issues that we ask for more feedback on.
[16:01]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Bridie.