Difference between revisions of "User:Meta Linden/Office Hours/2007 April 20"

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* Prokofy Neva: Jesse was only 17, I had no idea
Prokofy Neva: Jesse was only 17, I had no idea
* You: yes. I didn't know him well, but he was an amazing contributor. Such a shame.
You: yes. I didn't know him well, but he was an amazing contributor. Such a shame.
* You: Khamon, welcome...
You: Khamon, welcome...
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, can you explain what the chart means that looks like premiums took a dive?
Prokofy Neva: Meta, can you explain what the chart means that looks like premiums took a dive?
* Prokofy Neva: If you are starting already
Prokofy Neva: If you are starting already
* You: I can start...
You: I can start...
* Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
* You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
* Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts? Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts?  
* You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
  Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
* Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
* You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
* Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
* You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
* Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
* Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
* Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
* Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
* You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
* You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
* Prokofy Neva: ok
You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
* Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% / April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% / October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / * January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
Prokofy Neva: ok
* You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% /  
* You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
  April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% /  
* You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
  October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account  
* You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
  that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
* You: these people are your market.
You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
* Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
* Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
* You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
* Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
You: these people are your market.
* Desdemona Enfield would.
Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
* Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
* Falk Bergman: ya
You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
* Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
* Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
Desdemona Enfield would.
* You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
* Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
Falk Bergman: ya
* Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
* Desdemona Enfield smiles
Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
* You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
* Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative, and should not be ended in SL
Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
* Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also positive-linden-flow status
Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
* Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
Desdemona Enfield smiles
* Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
* Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative,  
* Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
  and should not be ended in SL
* Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts, and the problem isn't unverifieds
Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also  
* You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
  positive-linden-flow status
* Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
* Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
* Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
* You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts,  
* Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
  and the problem isn't unverifieds
* Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
* Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
* Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
* Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
* Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
* Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number for all accounts from that individual
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
* Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
* You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
* Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
* You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
* Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
* Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number  
* Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
  for all accounts from that individual
* Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
* You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
* Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
* You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
* Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
* Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
* Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
* Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
* Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
* Spontaneous Radio: yes
You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
* You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents- want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
* Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
* Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
* You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
* Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
* You: S.R. you make 10
Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
* Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
* Tao Takashi: good evening
Spontaneous Radio: yes
* Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents-  
* You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
  want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
* Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
* Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
* You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
* Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
* Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money, keeping curency in motion.
You: S.R. you make 10
* Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
* Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
Tao Takashi: good evening
* Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
* Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
* You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
* Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
* Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
* You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money,  
* Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
  keeping curency in motion.
* Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
* Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
* You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
* You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
* You: this is anectodal, but true.
Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
* Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
* Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
* You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
* Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
* Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
* Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
* You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
* Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
* Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
* Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
You: this is anectodal, but true.
* Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
* Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
* Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
* Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
* Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
* Prokofy Neva: so.....
Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
* Prokofy Neva: do the math there
You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
* You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder. I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
* Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
* Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
* Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
* Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
* Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
* Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
Prokofy Neva: so.....
* Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
Prokofy Neva: do the math there
* Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder.  
* You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
  I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
* Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
* Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
* You: search bots.
Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
* Prokofy Neva: um right
Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
* Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
* Spontaneous Radio: ok
Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
* Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
* Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
* Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
* Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
* Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
* Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
* Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
You: search bots.
* Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
Prokofy Neva: um right
* Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
* Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
Spontaneous Radio: ok
* You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
* Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
* Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
* Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
* Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
* Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
* You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
* Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
* Falk Bergman: I agree with that
Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
* Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
* Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
* Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
* Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
* Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
Teeple Linden is Online
* Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
* Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
* Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
* Prokofy Neva: No one tried
Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
* Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
* Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
* Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
Falk Bergman: I agree with that
* You: Sheep did.
Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
* Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
* Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
* Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
Heretic Linden is Online
* Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
* Tao Takashi: or whatever
Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
* Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
* Prokofy Neva: please
Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
* Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
Prokofy Neva: No one tried
* You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
Sysperia Poppy is Online
* Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
* Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
* Tateru Nino: *peeked
Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
You: Sheep did.
* Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
* Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
* Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
* Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
* Khamon Fate: When that happens.
Tao Takashi: or whatever
* Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
* Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
* Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
Prokofy Neva: please
* Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
* Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
* You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
* Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
* You: occasionally.
Tateru Nino: *peeked
* You: :D
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
* Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
* Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
* Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
* Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
* Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
Khamon Fate: When that happens.
* Falk Bergman: plus some security features
Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
* You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
* Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
* You: brb
Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
* Desdemona Enfield: sure
Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
* Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
* Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
* Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
You: occasionally.
* Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
You: :D
* Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
* Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
* Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
* Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
* Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
* Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
Falk Bergman: plus some security features
* Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
* Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
* Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
You: brb
* Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
Desdemona Enfield: sure
* Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
* Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
* You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
* Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
* Spontaneous Radio: That bull
Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
* Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
* You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
* Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
* Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
* Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file? I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
* Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
* Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
* Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
* Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
* Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
* You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
* Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
* Khamon Fate: What's a question?
Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
* Desdemona Enfield: What?
Spontaneous Radio: That bull
* Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
* Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
* Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
* Falk Bergman: population density
Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
* Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file?  
* You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
  I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
* Tao Takashi: yes
Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
* You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
* Tao Takashi: yes :-)
Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
* Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
* You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
* Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
* Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
* Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
Khamon Fate: What's a question?
* You: welcome Patch.
Desdemona Enfield: What?
* Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
* Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
* You: what else should we report by country?
Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
* Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
Falk Bergman: population density
* You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
* Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
* Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
Tao Takashi: yes
* Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
* Owen Oyen: how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
Tao Takashi: yes :-)
* Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
* Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
* Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
* Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
* Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
* Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
You: welcome Patch.
* Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
* Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
* Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
You: what else should we report by country?
* Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
* You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
* Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
* Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...
Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
Owen Oyen: /how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively  
  scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language  
  about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...
Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.
Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.
Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
* Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
* Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing  
* You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
  balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
* Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the camera to go through walls and stuff :(
Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the  
* Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
  camera to go through walls and stuff :(
* Spontaneous Radio: thanks
Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
* Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
Spontaneous Radio: thanks
* Prokofy Neva: another
Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
* Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
Prokofy Neva: another
* Spontaneous Radio: thanks
Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there  
* You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
  is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
* Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
Spontaneous Radio: thanks
* You: jan grew 51k
You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
* You: feb grew 37k
Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
* You: but mar grew 76k
You: jan grew 51k
* You: our greatest to date
You: feb grew 37k
* Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
You: but mar grew 76k
* Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here: http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
You: our greatest to date
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of  
* Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment beside L$ for land sales?
  third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
* You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here:  
* Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
  http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
* Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
* Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment  
* You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
  beside L$ for land sales?
* Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
* You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
* Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
* Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously think about that, because that's what will happen next.
Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
* You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
* Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
* Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
* Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my  
* Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
  sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously  
* Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
  think about that, because that's what will happen next.
* Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
* Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk  
* Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
  of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
* Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they don't care if it lags anyway
Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and  
* Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
  the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
* You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
* Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
* You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me  
* Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
  a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
* Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
* Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
* Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they  
* Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
  don't care if it lags anyway
* Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
* Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
* Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
* Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
* Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard and unpredictable
Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
* You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
* Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims" individually is missing a huge gap in the market
Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
* Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
* Desdemona Enfield: are all^
Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
* Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
* Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other  
Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
* Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
* You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
* Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
* Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard  
* Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
  and unpredictable
* Khamon Fate: that open source?
You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
* Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims"  
* Khamon Fate: oh no that that
  individually is missing a huge gap in the market
* Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
* You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
Desdemona Enfield: are all^
* Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
* Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
* Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other
* Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away  
* Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
  over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
* Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
* Tateru Nino: *coincide
Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
* Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
* Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
* Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
Khamon Fate: that open source?
* Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
* Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
Khamon Fate: oh no that that
* Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
* Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was  
* Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
  calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
* You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
* You: I will raise that through Zee.
Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
* Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
* Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month; premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
* You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
* Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand. January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth. High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.
Tateru Nino: *coincide
Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
You: I will raise that through Zee.
Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month;  
  premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand.  
  January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth.  
  High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent  
  that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.
Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.
Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.
Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
* Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
Vyrnox Ming is Offline
* Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
* Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
* Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
Beginner's Rod v4.0 whispers: Patchouli Woollahra caught the small Poliwag for 45pts! 1 xp gained.
* Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break  
* Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
  the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
* You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
* Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
* Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the stability fund, this is revenue
You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
* Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
* Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the  
* Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
  stability fund, this is revenue
* Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
* Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
* Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
* Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
MikeRP Mapp is Offline
* Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
* Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
* You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
* You: any quick last questions?
Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
* Spontaneous Radio: lol
MikeRP Mapp is Online
* Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
* Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
* Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere  
* Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
  apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
* Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
You: any quick last questions?
* Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
Spontaneous Radio: lol
* Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
* Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
* Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
* Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
* You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
* Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
* Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
* Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
* Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
* Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
* Spontaneous Radio: Why
You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
* Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
* Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
* Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
Cube Linden is Online
* Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
* Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us  
* Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
  ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
* Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
* Prokofy Neva: so do the math
Spontaneous Radio: Why
* Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
* Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
* Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
* Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
* Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
* Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
* Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
* Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
Prokofy Neva: so do the math
* Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
* Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
* Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
* Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
* Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
* Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
* Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
* You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
* Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
* Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
* Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
* Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
* Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)
Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)
Spontaneous Radio: but we cant

Latest revision as of 12:53, 20 April 2007

  • Prokofy Neva: Jesse was only 17, I had no idea
  • You: yes. I didn't know him well, but he was an amazing contributor. Such a shame.
  • You: Khamon, welcome...
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, can you explain what the chart means that looks like premiums took a dive?
  • Prokofy Neva: If you are starting already
  • You: I can start...
  • Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
  • You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
  • Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts? Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
  • You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
  • You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
  • Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
  • You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
  • Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
  • Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
  • Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
  • Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
  • You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
  • You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
  • Prokofy Neva: ok
  • Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% / April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% / October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / * January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
  • You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
  • You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
  • You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
  • You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
  • You: these people are your market.
  • Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
  • Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
  • You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
  • Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
  • Desdemona Enfield would.
  • Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
  • Falk Bergman: ya
  • Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
  • Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
  • You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
  • Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
  • Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
  • Desdemona Enfield smiles
  • You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
  • Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative, and should not be ended in SL
  • Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also positive-linden-flow status
  • Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
  • Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
  • Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
  • Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
  • Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts, and the problem isn't unverifieds
  • You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
  • Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
  • Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
  • Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
  • You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
  • Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
  • Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
  • Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
  • Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
  • Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
  • Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
  • Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number for all accounts from that individual
  • Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
  • You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
  • Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
  • You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
  • Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
  • Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
  • Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
  • Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
  • You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
  • Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
  • You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
  • Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
  • Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
  • Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
  • Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
  • Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
  • Spontaneous Radio: yes
  • You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents- want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
  • Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
  • Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
  • You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
  • Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
  • You: S.R. you make 10
  • Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
  • Tao Takashi: good evening
  • Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
  • You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
  • Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
  • Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
  • You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
  • Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
  • Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money, keeping curency in motion.
  • Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
  • Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
  • Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
  • Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
  • You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
  • Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
  • Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
  • You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
  • Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
  • Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
  • Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
  • You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
  • You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
  • You: this is anectodal, but true.
  • Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
  • Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
  • You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
  • Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
  • Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
  • Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
  • You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
  • Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
  • Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
  • Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
  • Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
  • Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
  • Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
  • Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
  • Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
  • Prokofy Neva: so.....
  • Prokofy Neva: do the math there
  • You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder. I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
  • Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
  • Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
  • Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
  • Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
  • Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
  • Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
  • Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
  • Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
  • You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
  • Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
  • Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
  • You: search bots.
  • Prokofy Neva: um right
  • Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
  • Spontaneous Radio: ok
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
  • Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
  • Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
  • Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
  • Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
  • Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
  • Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
  • Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
  • Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
  • Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
  • Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
  • You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
  • Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
  • Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
  • Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
  • Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
  • Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
  • You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
  • Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
  • Falk Bergman: I agree with that
  • Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
  • Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
  • Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
  • Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
  • Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
  • Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
  • Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
  • Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
  • Prokofy Neva: No one tried
  • Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
  • Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
  • Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
  • You: Sheep did.
  • Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
  • Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
  • Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
  • Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
  • Tao Takashi: or whatever
  • Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
  • Prokofy Neva: please
  • Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
  • You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
  • Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
  • Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
  • Tateru Nino: *peeked
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
  • Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
  • Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
  • Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
  • Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
  • Khamon Fate: When that happens.
  • Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
  • Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
  • Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
  • Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
  • Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
  • You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
  • Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
  • You: occasionally.
  • You: :D
  • Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
  • Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
  • Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
  • Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
  • Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
  • Falk Bergman: plus some security features
  • You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
  • Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
  • You: brb
  • Desdemona Enfield: sure
  • Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
  • Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
  • Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
  • Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
  • Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
  • Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
  • Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
  • Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
  • Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
  • Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
  • Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
  • Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
  • Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
  • Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
  • Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
  • Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
  • You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
  • Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
  • Spontaneous Radio: That bull
  • Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
  • You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
  • Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
  • Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
  • Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file? I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
  • Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
  • Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
  • Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
  • Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
  • Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
  • You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
  • Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
  • Khamon Fate: What's a question?
  • Desdemona Enfield: What?
  • Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
  • Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
  • Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
  • Falk Bergman: population density
  • Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
  • You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
  • Tao Takashi: yes
  • You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
  • Tao Takashi: yes :-)
  • Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
  • You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
  • Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
  • Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
  • You: welcome Patch.
  • Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
  • Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
  • You: what else should we report by country?
  • Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
  • You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
  • Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
  • Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
  • Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
  • Owen Oyen: how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
  • Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
  • Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
  • Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
  • Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
  • Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
  • Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
  • Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
  • Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
  • You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
  • Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...

Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.

  • Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
  • Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
  • You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
  • Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the camera to go through walls and stuff :(
  • Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
  • Spontaneous Radio: thanks
  • Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
  • Prokofy Neva: another
  • Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: thanks
  • You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
  • Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
  • You: jan grew 51k
  • You: feb grew 37k
  • You: but mar grew 76k
  • You: our greatest to date
  • Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
  • Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here: http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
  • Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment beside L$ for land sales?
  • You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
  • You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
  • Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
  • You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
  • Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
  • Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously think about that, because that's what will happen next.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
  • You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
  • Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
  • Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
  • Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they don't care if it lags anyway
  • Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
  • You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
  • Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
  • You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
  • Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
  • Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
  • Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
  • Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
  • Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
  • Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
  • Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
  • Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard and unpredictable
  • You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
  • Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims" individually is missing a huge gap in the market
  • Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
  • Desdemona Enfield: are all^
  • Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
  • Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other
  • Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
  • You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
  • Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
  • Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
  • Khamon Fate: that open source?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
  • Khamon Fate: oh no that that
  • Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
  • You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
  • Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
  • Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
  • Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
  • Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
  • Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
  • Tateru Nino: *coincide
  • Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
  • Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
  • Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
  • Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
  • Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
  • Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
  • You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
  • You: I will raise that through Zee.
  • Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
  • Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month; premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
  • You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
  • Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand. January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth. High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.

Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.

  • Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
  • Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
  • Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
  • Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
  • Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
  • Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
  • You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
  • Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
  • Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the stability fund, this is revenue
  • Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
  • Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
  • Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
  • Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
  • Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
  • Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
  • Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
  • You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
  • You: any quick last questions?
  • Spontaneous Radio: lol
  • Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
  • Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
  • Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
  • Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
  • Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
  • Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
  • You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
  • Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
  • Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
  • Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
  • Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: Why
  • Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
  • Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
  • Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
  • Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
  • Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
  • Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
  • Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
  • Prokofy Neva: so do the math
  • Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
  • Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
  • Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
  • Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
  • Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
  • Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
  • Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
  • Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
  • Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
  • Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
  • Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
  • Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
  • Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
  • Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
  • You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
  • Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
  • Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
  • Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
  • Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
  • Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)