Difference between revisions of "User:Meta Linden/Office Hours/2007 April 20"

From Second Life Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Line 7: Line 7:
* Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
* Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
* You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
* You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts?  
* Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts? Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
  Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
* You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
* Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
* You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
* Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
* You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
* Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
* Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
* Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
* Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
* You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
* You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
* Prokofy Neva: ok
Prokofy Neva: ok
* Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% / April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% / October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / * January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% /  
* You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
  April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% /  
* You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
  October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account  
* You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
  that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
* You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
* You: these people are your market.
You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
* Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
* Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
* You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
You: these people are your market.
* Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
* Desdemona Enfield would.
Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
* Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
* Falk Bergman: ya
Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
* Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
Desdemona Enfield would.
* Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
* You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
Falk Bergman: ya
* Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
* Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
* Desdemona Enfield smiles
You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
* You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
* Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative, and should not be ended in SL
Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
* Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also positive-linden-flow status
Desdemona Enfield smiles
* Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
* Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative,  
* Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
  and should not be ended in SL
* Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also  
* Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts, and the problem isn't unverifieds
  positive-linden-flow status
* You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
* Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
* Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
* Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
* You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts,  
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
  and the problem isn't unverifieds
* Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
* Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
* Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
* Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
* Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
* Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
* Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number for all accounts from that individual
Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
* Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
* You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
* Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
* You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
* Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number  
* Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
  for all accounts from that individual
* Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
* Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
* You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
* Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
* You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
* Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
* Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
* Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
* Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
* Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
* Spontaneous Radio: yes
Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
* You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents- want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
* Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
* Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
* You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
* Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
* You: S.R. you make 10
Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
* Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
Spontaneous Radio: yes
* Tao Takashi: good evening
You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents-  
* Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
  want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
* You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
* Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
* Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
* You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
* Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
You: S.R. you make 10
* Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money, keeping curency in motion.
Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
* Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
Tao Takashi: good evening
* Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
* Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
* Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
* You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
* Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
* Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
* You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money,  
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
  keeping curency in motion.
* Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
* Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
* Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
* You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
* You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
* You: this is anectodal, but true.
Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
* Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
* Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
* You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
* Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
* Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
* Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
* You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
* Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
* Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
You: this is anectodal, but true.
* Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
* Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
* Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
* Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
* Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
* Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
* Prokofy Neva: so.....
You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
* Prokofy Neva: do the math there
Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
* You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder. I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
* Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
* Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
* Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
* Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
* Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
Prokofy Neva: so.....
* Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
Prokofy Neva: do the math there
* Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder.  
* Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
  I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
* You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
* Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
* Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
* You: search bots.
Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
* Prokofy Neva: um right
Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
* Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
* Spontaneous Radio: ok
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
* Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
* Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
* Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
* Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
* Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
* Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
You: search bots.
* Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
Prokofy Neva: um right
* Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
* Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
Spontaneous Radio: ok
* Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
* You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
* Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
* Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
* Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
* Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
* Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
* You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
* Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
* Falk Bergman: I agree with that
You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
* Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
* Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
* Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
* Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
Teeple Linden is Online
* Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
* Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
* Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
* Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
* Prokofy Neva: No one tried
You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
* Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
* Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
Falk Bergman: I agree with that
* Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
* You: Sheep did.
Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
* Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
* Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
Heretic Linden is Online
* Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
* Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
* Tao Takashi: or whatever
Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
* Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
* Prokofy Neva: please
Prokofy Neva: No one tried
* Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
Sysperia Poppy is Online
* You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
* Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
* Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
* Tateru Nino: *peeked
You: Sheep did.
* Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
* Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
* Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
* Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
* Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
Tao Takashi: or whatever
* Khamon Fate: When that happens.
Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
* Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
* Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
Prokofy Neva: please
* Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
* Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
* Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
* You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
* Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
Tateru Nino: *peeked
* You: occasionally.
Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
* You: :D
Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
* Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
* Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
* Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
* Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
Khamon Fate: When that happens.
* Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
* Falk Bergman: plus some security features
Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
* You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
* Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
* You: brb
Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
* Desdemona Enfield: sure
You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
* Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
* Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
You: occasionally.
* Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
You: :D
* Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
* Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
* Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
* Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
* Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
* Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
Falk Bergman: plus some security features
* Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
* Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
* Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
You: brb
* Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
Desdemona Enfield: sure
* Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
* Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
* Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
* You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
* Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
* Spontaneous Radio: That bull
Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
* Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
* You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
* Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
* Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
* Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file? I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
* Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
* Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
* Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
* Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
* Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
* You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
* Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
* Khamon Fate: What's a question?
Spontaneous Radio: That bull
* Desdemona Enfield: What?
Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
* Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
* Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
* Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
* Falk Bergman: population density
Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file?  
* Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
  I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
* You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
* Tao Takashi: yes
Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
* You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
* Tao Takashi: yes :-)
Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
* Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
* You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
* Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
* Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
Khamon Fate: What's a question?
* Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
Desdemona Enfield: What?
* You: welcome Patch.
Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
* Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
* Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
* You: what else should we report by country?
Falk Bergman: population density
* Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
* You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
* Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
Tao Takashi: yes
* Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
* Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
Tao Takashi: yes :-)
* Owen Oyen: /how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
* Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
* Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
* Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
* Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
* Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
You: welcome Patch.
* Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
* Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
* Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
You: what else should we report by country?
* Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
* Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
* You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
* Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
* Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...
Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
Owen Oyen: /how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively  
  scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language  
  about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...
Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.
Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.
Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
* Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
* Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing  
* You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
  balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
* Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the camera to go through walls and stuff :(
Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the  
* Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
  camera to go through walls and stuff :(
* Spontaneous Radio: thanks
Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
* Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
Spontaneous Radio: thanks
* Prokofy Neva: another
Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
* Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there  
Prokofy Neva: another
Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there  
   is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
   is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
Spontaneous Radio: thanks
* Spontaneous Radio: thanks
You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
* You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
* Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
You: jan grew 51k
* You: jan grew 51k
You: feb grew 37k
* You: feb grew 37k
You: but mar grew 76k
* You: but mar grew 76k
You: our greatest to date
* You: our greatest to date
Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of  
* Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
  third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
* Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here: http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here:  
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
  http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
* Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment beside L$ for land sales?
Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
* You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment  
* Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
  beside L$ for land sales?
* Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
* Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
* You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
* Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
* You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
* Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
* Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously think about that, because that's what will happen next.
You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
* Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
* You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my  
* Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
  sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously  
* Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
  think about that, because that's what will happen next.
* Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
* Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk  
* Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
  of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
* Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and  
* Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
  the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
* Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they don't care if it lags anyway
Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
* Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
* You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me  
* Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
  a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
* Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
* You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
* Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
* Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they  
* Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
  don't care if it lags anyway
* Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
* Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
* Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
* Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
* Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
* Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
* Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
* Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard and unpredictable
Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
* You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
* Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims" individually is missing a huge gap in the market
Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
* Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
* Desdemona Enfield: are all^
Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
* Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
* Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other  
Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
* Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard  
* You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
  and unpredictable
* Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
* Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims"  
* Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
  individually is missing a huge gap in the market
* Khamon Fate: that open source?
Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
* Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
Desdemona Enfield: are all^
* Khamon Fate: oh no that that
Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
* Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
* You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other
* Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away  
* Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
  over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
* Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
* Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
* Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
* Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
* Tateru Nino: *coincide
Khamon Fate: that open source?
* Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
* Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
Khamon Fate: oh no that that
* Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
* Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was  
* Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
  calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
* Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
* Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
* Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
* You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
* You: I will raise that through Zee.
Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
* Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
* Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
Tateru Nino: *coincide
* Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month; premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
* You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
* Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand. January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth. High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.
Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
You: I will raise that through Zee.
Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month;  
  premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand.  
  January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth.  
  High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent  
  that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.
Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.
Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.
Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
* Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
Vyrnox Ming is Offline
* Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
* Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
* Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
Beginner's Rod v4.0 whispers: Patchouli Woollahra caught the small Poliwag for 45pts! 1 xp gained.
* Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break  
* Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
  the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
* You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
* Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
* Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the stability fund, this is revenue
You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
* Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
* Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the  
* Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
  stability fund, this is revenue
* Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
* Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
* Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
* Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
* Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
MikeRP Mapp is Offline
* Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
* Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
* You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
* You: any quick last questions?
Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
* Spontaneous Radio: lol
MikeRP Mapp is Online
* Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
* Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
* Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere  
* Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
  apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
* Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
You: any quick last questions?
* Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
Spontaneous Radio: lol
* Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
* Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
* Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
* Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
* You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
* Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
* Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
* Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
* Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
* Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
* Spontaneous Radio: Why
You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
* Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
* Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
* Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
Cube Linden is Online
* Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
* Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us  
* Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
  ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
* Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
* Prokofy Neva: so do the math
Spontaneous Radio: Why
* Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
* Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
* Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
* Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
* Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
* Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
* Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
* Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
Prokofy Neva: so do the math
* Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
* Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
* Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
* Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
* Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
* Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
* Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
* You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
* Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
* Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
* Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
* Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
* Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)
Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
* Spontaneous Radio: but we cant
Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)
Spontaneous Radio: but we cant

Revision as of 12:48, 20 April 2007

  • Prokofy Neva: Jesse was only 17, I had no idea
  • You: yes. I didn't know him well, but he was an amazing contributor. Such a shame.
  • You: Khamon, welcome...
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, can you explain what the chart means that looks like premiums took a dive?
  • Prokofy Neva: If you are starting already
  • You: I can start...
  • Prokofy Neva: it looks like a crash to half the value but maybe it's the art work is goofy
  • You: let me see if I can pull Zee here
  • Prokofy Neva: also what can you tell us about Supply Linden selling half the value in this month, is this due to casino cashouts? Will he be lowering his printing of Lindens now as a routine matter or what is the plan?
  • You: :\ I don't see him yet... or on skype. Will keep an eye out.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok well I just thought I'd put in those 2 questions
  • You: alright, so about the Premium counts- in what I'm seeing, and I'm sure Zee will have something to say, this is less about the count than the %.
  • Prokofy Neva: hmm could this platform get more purple? I guess it could, there's always "bright on texture" still
  • You: okay, that's 3 questions, Prok. :P
  • Spontaneous Radio: My questions are posted on the blog.
  • Prokofy Neva: oops I used up one damn
  • Prokofy Neva: well percent of what? you mean premiums against total sign-ups?
  • Desdemona Enfield rather likes purple/violets.
  • You: Yes, percentage of premium signups against total percentage of new residents.
  • You: Let me take a stab at S.R.'s before your 2nd Prok?
  • Prokofy Neva: ok
  • Spontaneous Radio: January 2006 124K registered users 13K premium account that 10.8% / April 2006 198K registered users 16K premium account that 8.3% / July 2006 427K registered users 21K premium account that 5% / October 2006 1.2M registered users 32K premium account that 2.7% / * January 2007 3.1M registered users 57K premium account that 1.8% At this rate the percentage premiun account holder will be below 1% by July 07, if not already. How does this help SL as a whole
  • You: Spontaneous, yes. So this is a factor of the patterns of growth of an open system
  • You: if you watched how Flickr grew also
  • You: as it gets public attention, the vast majority of new users at first become a swell of people trying it out
  • You: also "consumers"- i.e. customers of SL businesses- are less likely to be premium users
  • You: these people are your market.
  • Spontaneous Radio: How can we get the state on NPIOF residents compared to verifeied resident
  • Spontaneous Radio: the most users on the grid seem to be NPIOF
  • You: Can I ask around the group- is this a common request? How many here would like to see that ratio? Payment info supplied versus not?
  • Drewan Keats: I think it is useful
  • Desdemona Enfield would.
  • Tateru Nino: I'd be interested.
  • Falk Bergman: ya
  • Prokofy Neva: it's mildly useful
  • Penelope Ghia: Yes it'd be useful
  • You: and, just so I can fill out the JIRA correctly, how specifically would it be helpful?
  • Desdemona Enfield: It is an antidote to people making up information.
  • Prokofy Neva: it might be socially useful in ending the incitement of hatred against NPIOF
  • Desdemona Enfield smiles
  • You: yah a compatant to anectodal. Would you like to see this specifically about signups, active users, any other way? Geographically? By age of residency?
  • Prokofy Neva: I have two polls going on public attitudes to NPIOF and both are overwhelming positive, saying that they are customers, and also creative, and should not be ended in SL
  • Prokofy Neva: if you want to show who is using the resources, you need a colour-coded map that matches coloured dots to payment status and also positive-linden-flow status
  • Tateru Nino: Agree. The social uses are probably the primary purpose, then as a possible useful metric to track against others.
  • Penelope Ghia: Helps focus resources when dealing with many customers and many more griefers
  • Desdemona Enfield: We can inger differentials from aggregate numbers by month.
  • Desdemona Enfield: We can infer^
  • Prokofy Neva: then you will see the major uses of all grid resources are club owners who hav epayment on file and the largest positive Linden flow accounts, and the problem isn't unverifieds
  • You: I like it. Prok, can you define for me "positive-linden-flow-status"?
  • Prokofy Neva: that's your term lol
  • Prokofy Neva: It makes me personalyl think of Kotex ads TBH
  • Prokofy Neva: I think whaty ou mean to say is
  • You: I'd like to hear your interpretation of the metric
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: maybe explain it for the rest of us then ;)
  • Desdemona Enfield think it represent an increase in the number of LL employees.
  • Prokofy Neva: those avatars who have more Lindens coming in than going out
  • Prokofy Neva: it's on the econ statistics page
  • Prokofy Neva: there are tables of those characters who have Lidnens coming in at the level of $1000 US etc
  • Desdemona Enfield: (joking)
  • Prokofy Neva: of course, they don't show what goes OUT in terms of tier and that's why it's a bit useless
  • Prokofy Neva: you're the ones that came up with this however and it's also fascinating thaty ou were able to aggregate all the alts and render one number for all accounts from that individual
  • Prokofy Neva: and that number doubled in the highest category in the last month
  • You: we're able to do that to a certain extent
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, ty on alt aggregation. that eliminates the 3 alts to one account rumor.
  • Khamon Fate likes the idea of colour coded dots
  • You: obviously there are some technical limitations, but we have a bunch of ways to aggregate accounts that appear to be alts
  • Prokofy Neva: well that would be awful Khamon, think of the banning
  • Khamon Fate: Bans can be based on payment status now.
  • Prokofy Neva: well how many of these positive linden flow types actually have positive US dollar flow out of SL ?
  • Prokofy Neva: Not that I'm advocating capital flight : )
  • You: Well obviously we could only report flow out through the Lindex
  • Khamon Fate: Me, but very little. My income is pretty good; calc my tier into it and there's very little left.
  • You: but we also support that business owners should be able to cash in their profits- many are trying to make a living here
  • Prokofy Neva: Do you anticipate retiring the Lindex as being redundant and problematic at some point?
  • Prokofy Neva: If most customers are RL businesses paying their employees outside of SL and making contracts outside of SL.
  • Khamon Fate: Good heavens, are people honestly basing their living on inworld businesses that rely on the grid being useable?
  • Prokofy Neva: Yes Khamon there's like at least 259 or something
  • Prokofy Neva: I mean, assuming that they clear about two grand to live on a month
  • Spontaneous Radio: yes
  • You: I'd expect not... we're constantly working to improve the challenges with the Lindex, and just as you note, we- meaning LL *and* the residents- want to be able to measure both the inflow and outflow of $ to L
  • Khamon Fate: We should educate them better.
  • Spontaneous Radio: this is my full time job.
  • You: I personally know 9 individuals making a fulltime living on SL businesses.
  • Spontaneous Radio: but how does NPIOF help the economy if they can not buy or sell linden dollars. Is this true.
  • You: S.R. you make 10
  • Prokofy Neva: SL is my low-paid sweat equity part-time job
  • Tao Takashi: good evening
  • Falk Bergman has trouble getting outside companys to pay him in L$
  • You: actually S.R. I have 3 friends who are NPIOF who make linden $ on businesses here to use to spend into the market
  • Falk Bergman: something about problems with the accounting dep.....
  • Khamon Fate: I'm impressed Spontaneous. How long do you expect to draw real life income from inworld sources?
  • You: they do not buy L$ on teh exchange but earn them inworld and then spend them on rental property, clothing, anims, etc.
  • Penelope Ghia: I'm 11
  • Tateru Nino: I know NPIOF people who have gathered enough money to start and operate a business with modest turnover, generating shopping money, keeping curency in motion.
  • Tao Takashi: that's what I sort of did here and there
  • Spontaneous Radio: at the rate the grid is. Im not sure any more.
  • Tao Takashi: actually I never used the exchange ;-)
  • Prokofy Neva: I have tenants who are NPIOF who are mainly Europeans who make good money here but then they have the challenge of how to repatriate their wealth.
  • You: yes there definitely is the challenge- which we're working on- of accepting payments in other countries
  • Spontaneous Radio: Well I have residents also that are NPIOF and they pay in paypal
  • Prokofy Neva: A huge number of people try to live by their earned means in SL, I find that constantly here.
  • You: that too. payments come in from the outside.
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: its no challenge
  • Falk Bergman: pay out to paypal and send to my german bank account
  • Spontaneous Radio: But the large number of NPIOF "griefers" give a bad name to the NPIOF's that contribute to the community
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, living-in-the-system is a point of honor for many of them.
  • Falk Bergman: it just takes AGES
  • You: yes well- as a simowner myself?
  • You: I personally also deal with plenty of "payment info supplied" griefers
  • You: this is anectodal, but true.
  • Spontaneous Radio: My next question where is Zee
  • Prokofy Neva: Most griefers on my police blotter are PIU
  • You: yeah I'm still trying to get him, apologies folks.
  • Falk Bergman: I also recently saw some goo spreading Botaccounts in action
  • Spontaneous Radio: yea cause they get catch, the NPIOFs just delete the account or creat a new one
  • Prokofy Neva: yes I think Linden Lab needs to license and mark bots, full stop.
  • You: I sincerely hope he didn't go to the voice beta grid x.x
  • Falk Bergman: of course they were PIU
  • Spontaneous Radio: 300 on a ban list is a little low for 5 million residents
  • Tao Takashi: it should be 5 million :)
  • Falk Bergman: yes I personally think its amazing how well SL works
  • Prokofy Neva: Well Meta I have a question that really is the mystery of SL
  • Prokofy Neva: here we have 250,000 odd people who spent more than one Linden dollar last month
  • Desdemona Enfield: Agreed, Falk.
  • Prokofy Neva: yet the figures show $2 million US *per day* being spent
  • Prokofy Neva: so.....
  • Prokofy Neva: do the math there
  • You: I hear the concerns about bots consuming resources, I do- it's just, with the open source client, that's going to get harder and harder. I'm open to suggestions on how we can do a robots.txt and a form of voluntary reporting of bot identity
  • Prokofy Neva: tell me how 200,000 people spend $2 mllion a day????
  • Falk Bergman: I think the hard to learn interface keeps away the easily bored - its like a filter
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, you don't close the barn door after the big data scrape, you license bots
  • Prokofy Neva: it's not just that they consume resources, though that's at issue
  • Prokofy Neva: it's that they consume my commercial information without my consent for free
  • Prokofy Neva: so they need to pay for that privilege
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Bots consume almost no resources
  • Falk Bergman: I ran some benchmarks
  • Prokofy Neva: Falk, once you have a dozen Grid Shepherds scouring the grid, it will benoticeable
  • Prokofy Neva: but I just said, that's not the issue
  • You: I believe you're referring to the Sheep's search engine... and Christian is working on ensuring that it stays within the TOS.
  • Prokofy Neva: the issue is their scraping of my parcel data for their commercial interests
  • Spontaneous Radio: which bots are we talking about Cpoy bot land bot or rate bots
  • You: search bots.
  • Prokofy Neva: um right
  • Falk Bergman: yes It would be ok if bots say had light blue speech bubbles
  • Spontaneous Radio: ok
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: thoseare special bots bot != bot
  • Prokofy Neva: Residents who use bots to scrape the entire grid should pay more for that privilege
  • Tao Takashi: so just ban the bot?
  • Prokofy Neva: and everyone should have opt-in as default
  • Khamon Fate: Prokofy, If I hand an alt 1000L back and forth a hundred times a day we've "spent" 100,000L in the system.
  • Falk Bergman: and even those are pretty low resource using
  • Prokofy Neva: banning does little Good Tao, don't be silly
  • Prokofy Neva: they can scan on a 96 m2 radius and do
  • Prokofy Neva: go look int he search der
  • Desdemona Enfield: Well, how do you know an object passing thru is a bot?
  • Khamon Fate: That number is totally meaningless.
  • You: there was a great podcast about opt-in for search bots last week, an interview with the Sheep on the topic
  • Prokofy Neva: yes Khamon I realize that but I'd like to hear the Official Linden Answer (TM)
  • Tao Takashi: it's not an object, it's an avatar with a name you can ban
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: Ican give you a specs - tey can a 256 meter radius
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, that's optOUT they are talking about
  • Prokofy Neva: they did not GO with opt-in
  • Falk Bergman: they are not LSL based
  • Prokofy Neva: that's the problem
  • You: an attempt at opt-in was made, a while back- like all web search engines, opt-in will never scale and never succeed.
  • Falk Bergman: all processing is off world
  • Falk Bergman: I agree with that
  • Tao Takashi: well, of course the bot is just a hack anyway, better would be a API from LInden Lab to get such data more easily
  • Prokofy Neva: well that's your own opinon Meta
  • Desdemona Enfield: A robot avatar?
  • Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't foist that on the entire community
  • Tao Takashi: opted-in data of course
  • Prokofy Neva: the community that pays 80 percent of your bottom line
  • Falk Bergman: opt-in is for a distributed system like this just not vivable
  • Khamon Fate: It's as good an excuse as any Prok.
  • Prokofy Neva: No one tried
  • Prokofy Neva: and guess what?
  • Prokofy Neva: you HAVE a populated search
  • Prokofy Neva: it's called THE SEARCH PLACES
  • You: Sheep did.
  • Prokofy Neva: Lindens don't need bots
  • Prokofy Neva: they ARE the bot
  • Tao Takashi: but I want to search objects actually
  • Tao Takashi: I want to search for a cool outfit..
  • Tao Takashi: or whatever
  • Khamon Fate: Does anybody use the Sheep search? I haven't found it useful for anything.
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, they did not make opt-in, they made opt out AFTER the took everyone's data without public notice
  • Prokofy Neva: please
  • Tao Takashi: I don't want to teleport everywhere and check these places out
  • You: and our own search... it's got its' own scaling challenges, though you're right, the system is working
  • Tateru Nino peeks at it. Didn't find it useful.
  • Desdemona Enfield: That's an AI problem, Tao, not trivial.
  • Tateru Nino: *peeked
  • Falk Bergman: Prokofy: those bots won't stay with usforever - A direct interface to the LL asset server will be much esasier to handle
  • Prokofy Neva: you are entitled to your POV on this but stop presenting it as "fact" as there are distinctly two schools of thought on this
  • Tao Takashi: of course the sheep engine also does not really help to that regard
  • Prokofy Neva: well I would rather the Lindens made that interface
  • Khamon Fate claps for Falk's comment
  • Khamon Fate: When that happens.
  • Prokofy Neva: they could be more or less trusted not to be representing only one commercial interest
  • Prokofy Neva: they already have an opt-in system
  • Prokofy Neva: right on the avatar and on the land now is a check off box "publish to web"
  • Falk Bergman: because the asset server handles "searches" all the time anyway
  • Prokofy Neva: perfect opt-in, easy to populate
  • You: agreed. What I state is my own, professional opinion. I also have been wrong in the past.
  • Spontaneous Radio: Very diappointed that it is 10:31am and there is no sign of Zee Linden.
  • You: occasionally.
  • You: :D
  • Khamon Fate: The Lindens don't have to build the interface if they'll simply provide us with an API to the database.
  • Falk Bergman: the bots are really just a stopgap measure
  • Prokofy Neva: the bots ensure that those who can make a killing can make it before regulation sets in, that's all
  • Falk Bergman: Khama: there has to be some gatekeeping
  • Tao Takashi: that's what I said, they are more likely a workaround right now
  • Falk Bergman: plus some security features
  • You: would everyone be okay if I took 2 mins to run to zee's desk and see if I can get him?
  • Tao Takashi: sure, do that :)
  • You: brb
  • Desdemona Enfield: sure
  • Prokofy Neva: well, fly, maybe
  • Falk Bergman: ya drag him in here
  • Khamon Fate: Zee is a busy person that deals with population statistics ala Hari Seldon. Our individual opinions mean squat to him.
  • Tao Takashi: do Lindens don't have telephones? ;-)
  • Desdemona Enfield: Freeze him at his desk until he logs in, smiles.
  • Khamon Fate: Lindens yell across the room.
  • Desdemona Enfield: They use telepathy
  • Falk Bergman: they still aren't voice enabled at LL
  • Prokofy Neva: well I have a business proposition from the daughter of a former African leader who needs me to receive a large transfer of funds, you'll excuse me...
  • Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
  • Desdemona Enfield: hehe p.n.
  • Tao Takashi: I handled that already, Prok
  • Khamon Fate: This platform says TAO
  • Khamon Fate: and looks like an auction lot on the map
  • Desdemona Enfield was amazed recently to learn that she had an uncle who was a mining engineer in Africa.
  • Prokofy Neva: We should warn Meta never to take any helicopter flights over the Sea of Omidyar.
  • You: Apologies, folks, he got pulled into another meeting. I will be sharing with him a full transcription of this, and I will chain him down here next week.
  • Prokofy Neva: actually, scratch that, this is a Mr. Brian Smith on the line, he says I've won a lottery in the UK.
  • Spontaneous Radio: That bull
  • Khamon Fate: At least it doesn't drag our frame rates screaming into the ground like a typical Linden build.
  • You: and maybe as penance get him to respond to blog comments too...
  • Desdemona Enfield: Wow, congrats, PN
  • Spontaneous Radio: HEs never in game
  • Tao Takashi: I actually have a statistics question, like what the number of active residents is acually. Did I miss this in the file? I just see the portions of active residents by land and the complete numbers
  • Khamon Fate: Gosh do you have to go to UK to pick it up?
  • Khamon Fate: Can I go with you?
  • Spontaneous Radio: he has no clue what s going on in here
  • Spontaneous Radio: its all about the numbers
  • Desdemona Enfield: Tao has a real question, smiles
  • You: number of active residents by.... what divisions of land, Tao?
  • Spontaneous Radio: not the residents for him
  • Khamon Fate: What's a question?
  • Desdemona Enfield: What?
  • Tao Takashi: there is a land of population by land
  • Tao Takashi: and there are precent amounts of how many active residents per land there are
  • Falk Bergman: number of residents vs. number of land owners?
  • Falk Bergman: population density
  • Tao Takashi: and there is the definition of an active resident but I didn't see the number
  • You: percentage of active residents by geographic country you mean.
  • Tao Takashi: yes
  • You: you're asking about the physical count instead of the percentage?
  • Tao Takashi: yes :-)
  • Tao Takashi: maybe I overread it, not sure
  • You: got it. I can add that to the list of enhancement requests. Would that be useful for others also? and... my product mgmt hat on- why?
  • Tao Takashi: for marketing it would be interesting
  • Desdemona Enfield: OMG, the m-f ratio is 2:1.... I thought it was the reverse.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: There ain't no women in Second Life! - Frogg Marlowe
  • You: welcome Patch.
  • Tao Takashi: of course national marketers might also be interested in more break down statistics on the country
  • Patchouli Woollahra: hey hey, don't mind me.
  • You: what else should we report by country?
  • Tateru Nino: Possible opportunity for community to focus on national cultures that aren't meshing and try to figure out what the common factor is.
  • You: I've been curious about that myself, especially with the growth of int'l residents. Gender ratios? Financial figures?
  • Tao Takashi: like age bands, gender etc.
  • Tao Takashi: basically what is there broke down by country
  • Tao Takashi: many communities seem to stay local because of language
  • Owen Oyen: /how about . . . above some minimum L threshold of perhaps 25L, a report of avg and standard deviation of L's present in each account?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta do you have an explanation for why island sales are down, or does that have to wait for Zee as well?
  • Desdemona Enfield: By country, perhaps cash flow in and out for residents of those countries. Essentially foreign exchange info
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Are we talking about a fall that has only happened this month?
  • Tao Takashi: so interesting would be age band, gender and hours spent to me
  • Patchouli Woollahra: or a fall that keeps happening for more than a quarter?
  • Falk Bergman: oki sorry need to go
  • Prokofy Neva: Do you plan on changing the TOS at all to reflect that customers coming on now can expect all their inworld activity to be actively scraped by commercial entities? That's NOT implied in the TOS wording about "use of your content" and is in fact contra=indicated by language about "expectation of a reasonable level of privacy" elsewhere in the TOS
  • Owen Oyen: /^* in each = per
  • Tao Takashi: maybe also financial stuff but right now I think most corporate projects in here do not be about earning money
  • Prokofy Neva: Patchouli it has overall increased but it seems to be a fall this month yes
  • You: okay, let's see if I can get these, one at a time...
  • Patchouli Woollahra: let's keep looking, shall we?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: One drop does not an ocean make - I'm interested to see if the April and May 07 figures will continue this fall...

Patchouli Woollahra: Hey there, Benjamin Linden.

  • Spontaneous Radio: Prokofy can you tell me where i can find more info on the search bot
  • Lewis Nerd: hello everyone... did i miss anything exciting?
  • You: owen: the avg and std dev of l's present in an account, that would be average, by country? by age? obviously that would need to be a closing balance, say, monthly? how should we bucket those averages?
  • Patchouli Woollahra has resigned herself to losing any expectation of privacy in SL in a long time ago since someone taught her how to use the camera to go through walls and stuff :(
  • Prokofy Neva: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/04/the_greed_sheph.html Spontaneous there's one article
  • Spontaneous Radio: thanks
  • Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/04/search_works_th.html
  • Prokofy Neva: another
  • Owen Oyen: /bucket as you choose, but avg L per acct info would be useful, the true customer base might be only a few accts, or many, there
 is no visibility into this, as to further delineation, be creative :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: thanks
  • You: prok: Island land, how do you say it shrinks? "land size" tab on our metrics
  • Desdemona Enfield: Island Info: is month to date.
  • You: jan grew 51k
  • You: feb grew 37k
  • You: but mar grew 76k
  • You: our greatest to date
  • Prokofy Neva: Patchouli, it's one thing to "resign yourself to a loss of privacy" it's another to be scraped *in the commercial interests of third-parties who benefit from it against your interests* try to see the difference.
  • Tao Takashi: Spontaneous: here is another: http://www.3pointd.com/20070409/sheep-spidering-sl-grid-for-new-search-service/ and here: http://taotakashi.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/a-new-search-engine-is-out/
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, the number of island orders is down for this month
  • Spontaneous Radio: Does The Lab would include private sims in there stats for land sale, since most private sim owners take other forms of payment beside L$ for land sales?
  • You: you have a metric for that Prok? I may not be looking the same place you are?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I've tried, but frankly? I gave up around the time when I started getting ads ad nauseum in my mailbox to increase the size of my pens.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: 15 of them. for some reason.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Pen 15.
  • You: we can only track stats for land sales that happen through the "land sale" mechanism we provide.
  • Lewis Nerd: its ok patchouli, this is a Mature region :)
  • You: if someone chooses to barter outside of the L$ system, say, accept paypal and then gift the land, or pay rent through paypal, we cannot measure it
  • Spontaneous Radio: so if say a large private sim own sell land and take paypal.com and set the land for 0L$ this brings the average price down?
  • Prokofy Neva: Sinceriously Linden Lab, once I find the Sheep are aggregating my parcel data, tracking my rental cube transactions, harvesting all my sales data, and selling it to their clients, hey, I'm done, I don't need to run a business under those conditions, and I think you need to seriously think about that, because that's what will happen next.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Prokofy, the grid search engine is specifically wired with a few optout options.
  • You: that is true. likewise, if someone were to legitimately choose to sell their land for $10L, that would also bring the price down. thus is the risk of the open system. We *could* go through an categorize the "sold for $0" outliers? would that help?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Now I'm not really a fan of Electric Sheep in general, but I have the impression that between the optout at Electric Sheep HQ and the banning of Grid Shephard, you're pretty much covered.
  • Lewis Nerd: the sheepbot must add unwanted lag to the grid ... isnt that considered "harrassment" and "disturbing the peace" on huge scale, under the CS?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: that would help.
  • Spontaneous Radio: Kinda like the land bots for last month?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta re: islands: in March, 1154 islands were added, those are the new orders for March, in April TD, it is only 522, that suggests to me a drop in island sales unless I'm missing something?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: and Lewis... I was present on my region when Grid Shephard flew past into my living room.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: he doesn't do much in the few minutes he's scanning each region.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Poseballs are a bigger risk.
  • Prokofy Neva: Lewis look out, Falk Bergman will tell you he's tested it all , they don't lag, so shut up, see, that reasoning will not convince them, they don't care if it lags anyway
  • Khamon Fate: Meta, you'll need to include 1L sales as well. Or you can mark sales to specific avs as nonpublic sales. That might help too.
  • You: yes Prok, what you're missing is our pattern of delivery of islands.
  • Desdemona Enfield: Yes, assumig the TD is for April 20th
  • Khamon Fate: April is only 1/2 over
  • You: They get completed racks at a time. we do not report them until completely delivered. we have a cycle across the month.
  • Lewis Nerd: well he might but i do... and if it affects my land unwantedly for one moment, then its a problem
  • Prokofy Neva: well no, it has 10 days left
  • Tateru Nino: Is the current topic the ESC search engine or the rate of island orders?
  • Khamon Fate: okay 2/3 over
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Frankly, Tat? I gave up.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: almost.
  • Khamon Fate: What's peak estate ordering time of the month?
  • Prokofy Neva: Meta, you have to look at results, not sales that didn't result in deliveries yet, that are in the queue
  • Desdemona Enfield: The April TD may be based on an earlier date.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Growing up in Luskwood gets you innured to some crazy discussions.
  • Spontaneous Radio: even if it was only 522 for half the month that would be 1044 thats less then March
  • Prokofy Neva: islands added means islands added, so there are less, unless you say that entire field has no meaning because delivery is so haphhazard and unpredictable
  • You: yeah I don't have anything really to say, stats/metrics wise about external search engines, I'm afraid, but at least I can talk about island sales. :)
  • Lewis Nerd: until island prices come down to a sensible level, most users can only dream of owning land ... and LL's refusal to sell "low prim sims" individually is missing a huge gap in the market
  • Desdemona Enfield: Meta all all econ stats up to date on Apr 19?
  • Desdemona Enfield: are all^
  • Khamon Fate: Is it haphazard? Does former data demonstrate notable fluctuations month to month?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Prok, I would rather wait till the April and May 07 stats be delivered before saying 'we have a definite drop'.
  • Lewis Nerd: i've never understood why you have to pay to get an island, and pay monthly for its use ... surely it should be one or the other
  • Tateru Nino: Isn't it the end of the budgetary period for many US Corporates? April 30 being the last day of the annual budget which was frittered away over christmas on golf umbrellas with brand logos?
  • You: Prok: what I'm saying is that you can't look at the total monthly figure until the month is over.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: oh. that.
  • Prokofy Neva: What's to give up on Patchouli, you can't multi task and entertain 2 questions at a time?
  • Prokofy Neva: um ok Meta, I'll try to contain myself then!
  • Khamon Fate: that open source?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I can multitask surprisingly well xD.
  • Khamon Fate: oh no that that
  • Prokofy Neva: so.....could you then provide a memory to these pages?
  • You: Tateru: actually that's a good question. I'm not sure what our fiscal year is? haven't worked with the financial team enough. I *assumed* it was calendar year, but could be wrong. I will look into that.
  • Desdemona Enfield is ambidexterous.
  • Spontaneous Radio: I walked out of the room for 5 minutes when i found out Zee didnt care about us enuff to show up and i can keep up wiht the convo
  • Patchouli Woollahra is fishing, fileding 4 IMs and tending to scratch wounds on a friend's face.
  • Tateru Nino: Fiscal years for US corporates vary a lot.
  • Tateru Nino: Many concide with tax time.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok let's try this another way
  • Tateru Nino: *coincide
  • Prokofy Neva: 2007 March 39,660,848 2007 April - MTD 14,619,648
  • Prokofy Neva: auction sales are down too
  • Patchouli Woollahra: They look bad - but you should see the leaks the other guy sprung today xD
  • Prokofy Neva: so to what do you attribute this slump?
  • Prokofy Neva: is this the Passover/Easter holidays and spring break?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: We've had a series of interesting crashes of the grid in some aspects over the past month.
  • Desdemona Enfield: It is difficult to interpret statistics.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: the lack of reliability in SL currently doesn't do much to inspire a booming economy at times.
  • You: Good question, Prok. I would expect to see that more level. I honestly don't know.
  • You: I will raise that through Zee.
  • Lewis Nerd: 15% packet loss here at the moment
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Desdemona has a point there: you can make statistics play fetch.
  • Prokofy Neva: Look, Meta, surely you can see the forest for the trees here: Supply Linden is printing and selling HALF of what he did last month; premium accounts slumped; island sales are down; auctions are down MTD, even allowing for some speed-up at the end of the month -- there is an econmic slump
  • You: sim stats for this sim show no server-side packet loss, Lewis... must be your connection?
  • Spontaneous Radio: The reason the prices are dropping is that the Lab is placing about 4+ Sims of main land online a day. Its called supply and demand. January and Febuary not many new main land sims. Low supply, high price. March a new continent with about 250 new main land sims in about a mouth. High supply lower cost. It took the Lab about 1 year to build the South Continent. It has taken the less then a month to make the new East Continent that so far is about 1/4 in size compared to the South Continent.

Desdemona Enfield: Even in RL, it is very difficult to know what changes in aggregate numbers mean.

  • Prokofy Neva: now is this due to Lindens' actions about ageplay and casinos which were making up a good chunk of the economy?
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Supply Linden is selling L$ only to stabilise the money supply, Prokofy.
  • Lewis Nerd: maybe cos i'm in the UK... until you open a UK data centre its going to be bad
  • Patchouli Woollahra: If there is no reason to take action, he won't print L$ or take them back.
  • Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous, say what you will, but don'[t use terms like "supply and demand" for the land auction, it runs on another basis called "we will break the land barons' backs by glutting when prices get too high and force them to buy more to keep market share"
  • Patchouli Woollahra: That's what he's nominally for in the LideX.
  • Prokofy Neva: Um Patchouli, "only to stabilize" means erm keeping it artificially low, and it's a huge hit to LL when he can print and sell only half as much
  • You: well I cannot comment on the overall effect of clamping down on certain types of businesses... Khamon, can you comment on the effect to your business?
  • Spontaneous Radio: Which mean Linden labs pads there pockets
  • Prokofy Neva: my God, he sold $1 million *US* -- that's a big source of revenue to LL! He then sold $880,000 the next month! I mean, please, this isn't the stability fund, this is revenue
  • Patchouli Woollahra: any economy will require money sinks.
  • Spontaneous Radio: cause if these land baron fall there, Linden reclaims and resell for 100% profit
  • Lewis Nerd: patchouli, what do you think inventory loss is for? its a money sink!
  • Prokofy Neva: um, not on this scale with this artificial glutting lol
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Lewis... that's a different thing.
  • Patchouli Woollahra spends her entire L$400/week stipends on uploads.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Well... that and rolling poor Moonshine Herbst for L$1000 a week on average from his parlor @ Portage.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: it's technically a sink when I pay for uploads, pay for classifieds, or Places listings.
  • Prokofy Neva: yeah what a lag that thing is in Portage, chasing away my tenants there
  • Desdemona Enfield: Personally, I want to see LL be very profitable. It ensures my future here.
  • You: ladies & gentlemen, I have another meeting I have to run to now. I really have enjoyed this, and will *DEFINITELY* have zee here next week. My sincere apologies that he couldn't make it this time.
  • You: any quick last questions?
  • Spontaneous Radio: lol
  • Spontaneous Radio: surprise surprise
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Seriously, this drop in the L$ movements may not necessarily be a bad thing.
  • Lewis Nerd: will you ever release low prim islands individually?
  • Tao Takashi: Thanks for hosting this, Meta :)
  • Prokofy Neva: rolls eyes
  • Desdemona Enfield: ty, Meta.
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Casinos are a big source of micropayment back and forth.
  • Drewan Keats: Thanks, Meta.
  • Prokofy Neva: ok everybody State Department noon presser in one hour! I know we'll get more about what's really happening in Iraq now!
  • Patchouli Woollahra: Camping chairs in such places don't help.
  • You: Lewis: that's a great enhancement request, do you have a price point you *would* consider for it?
  • Prokofy Neva: $80 is what Anshe gets
  • Prokofy Neva: so put it at $74
  • Lewis Nerd: well one quarter of the price of a full sim, since that's how they're sold, at most :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: Linden care more about a company like nike or rerbok that pay for one sim and doesnt contribute to the community as a hold then us ho paid lots more tier and do lots more for the community
  • Lewis Nerd: its been asked before and ignored several times :) i keep trying in the hope that one day :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: Why
  • Prokofy Neva: Spontaneous that is the mystery of SL
  • Desdemona Enfield: Well, it is a business S.R.
  • Prokofy Neva: and the answer is:
  • Patchouli Woollahra: There we go again, where does that come from?
  • Prokofy Neva: Nike and Sony have billions of customers they will eventually bring here and serve
  • Spontaneous Radio: cause they can reach more people, and that mean high false number
  • Prokofy Neva: and you and I have like 1,257 customers lol
  • Prokofy Neva: so do the math
  • Patchouli Woollahra: What is 'False'?
  • Spontaneous Radio: but makes it look like SL is the great thing since Prim hair
  • Patchouli Woollahra: You know what? It just might be.
  • Spontaneous Radio: There sims are empty
  • Spontaneous Radio: check the traffic
  • Patchouli Woollahra: I won't disagree with you on that though!
  • Prokofy Neva: empty today Spontaneous
  • Prokofy Neva: but look ahead
  • Desdemona Enfield: hehe, imo, I think the big corporate 'presence' thing is a bit of a fad
  • Prokofy Neva: they will figure out to do what you do
  • Tao Takashi: there are many empty sims, not only corporate ones
  • Prokofy Neva: they will have free housing, entertainment, even camp chairs, sex, casinos, whatever
  • Spontaneous Radio: thats fine prokofy
  • Prokofy Neva: and they will have the deep pockets and staff to take care of people
  • Desdemona Enfield: IBM does sex?
  • You: great convos folks... see you all soon. Thanks!
  • Prokofy Neva: and they'll buy islands by the gross and put staff on it paid in micropayments and run them
  • Lewis Nerd: maybe empty sims because there's too many people out to make money, or cover costs ebcause land is so expensive - and can't provide fun things to do
  • Desdemona Enfield: bye Meta
  • Spontaneous Radio: but i bet that if the ceo ofNike called he would be able to talk to Zee
  • Tao Takashi: take care, Meta :)
  • Spontaneous Radio: but we cant