User:Noelle Linden/Office Hours/2009 04 02 Transcript

Ramzi Linden's visit

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Here is the transcript of Ramzi's visit at Localization Central on April 2nd with the French and German residents. Feel free to add some pictures if you took some. Enjoy and thank you all for coming!

Note: questions are in bold.

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[12:00] Noelle Linden: I think we can start....

[12:00] Surfaqua Oh: oui laure :-)

[12:00] Gally Young: je t'en prie )

[12:01] Yann Dufaux: i'm ok:)

[12:01] Noelle Linden: can we keep our exchanges in English? ;-)

[12:01] Laure Farella: sure' ;o)

[12:01] Thibaud Merlin: what about gaelic :)

[12:01] Ourasi Ferraris: ⊙▽⊙⊙Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes ⊙▽⊙⊙ Yes !

[12:01] Noelle Linden: thank you for coming... and a big THANK YOU to Ramzi Linden !!!

[12:01] Noelle Linden: hi Ramzi !!

[12:02] Ramzi Linden: hi everyone! thank you for inviting me Noelle. I'm excited!

[12:02] Noelle Linden: I know you are !! ;-)

[12:02] Laure Farella: nice to meet your Ramzi ;o)

[12:02] Ramzi Linden: does everyone know what I do at Linden?

[12:02] Thibaud Merlin: more or less lol

[12:03] Ourasi Ferraris: yess ^^

[12:03] Laure Farella: ;o))

[12:03] Lara Shepherd: only very few :)

[12:03] JLG Chevalier: not really

[12:03] Laure Farella: in charge of the international ?

[12:03] Laurent Bechir: a little :)

[12:03] Ramzi Linden: i break stuff.

[12:03] Ramzi Linden: Just kidding.

[12:03] Lara Shepherd: hehe

[12:03] Noelle Linden: :-)

[12:03] Yann Dufaux: hehe :)

[12:03] Thibaud Merlin: :))

[12:03] Ramzi Linden: Well I have been doing 2 things recently: one is, I help to release each new viewer.

[12:03] Ourasi Ferraris: looll

[12:03] Ramzi Linden: My most recent project was to ship the 1.22 viewer.

[12:03] Ourasi Ferraris: Bug Stomper ^^

[12:03] Thibaud Merlin: big job!

[12:03] Ramzi Linden: Are most people running version 1.22 here?

[12:04] Ourasi Ferraris: yep

[12:04] Laurent Bechir: yes

[12:04] Lore Lamont: i am

[12:04] Thibaud Merlin: of course!

[12:04] Ramzi Linden: (The French and German viewers are way better in 1.22! )

[12:04] Gally Young: yes )

[12:04] Noelle Linden: in French and German ?

[12:04] Surfaqua Oh: 1.22.11

[12:04] Laurent Bechir: french

[12:04] Lore Lamont: i admit i am on the english one atm

[12:04] Surfaqua Oh: french

[12:04] Simone Linden: Lore!!!

[12:04] Ourasi Ferraris: 1.22.11 in french

[12:04] Ramzi Linden: Which brings me to the other thing that I do: I work with Danica Linden, Noelle, SImone, and Rika to improve and catch up all the bugs in the languages other than English.

[12:04] Lara Shepherd: I am on the German one right now

[12:05] Ramzi Linden: === Localization !

[12:05] Lore Lamont geht in die Ecke und schämt sich ;)

[12:05] Simone Linden: LOL

[12:05] Thibaud Merlin: i confess i am on the 1.22.11 EN

[12:05] Thibaud Merlin: :(

[12:05] Lore Lamont: merci thibaud ;)

[12:05] Noelle Linden: ooohhhhh!!!!!!

[12:06] Ourasi Ferraris: I make my test always in the french viewver

[12:06] Noelle Linden: so how long have you been in SL Ramzi ?

[12:06] Noelle Linden: and with LL ?

[12:06] Ramzi Linden: I am running 1.22.11 in French today, and I dont even speak French!

[12:06] Noelle Linden: yay!!!

[12:06] Thibaud Merlin: oh nice!

[12:06] Simone Linden: yay!!!!

[12:06] Ourasi Ferraris: loolll

[12:06] Laure Farella: that's a good way to learn !

[12:06] Ourasi Ferraris: good luck ramzi ^^

[12:06] Ramzi Linden: So maybe I will hit the wrong buttons during this meeting, LOL

[12:06] Lore Lamont: hahaha

[12:06] Thibaud Merlin: haha

[12:06] Rika Linden: hehe

[12:07] Noelle Linden: don't push on "Ejecter tous"

[12:07] Ramzi Linden: Noelle, I have been in SL for almost 5 years....

[12:07] Ramzi Linden: I admit that I did not use SL until I got a job with Linden Lab, in 2004.

[12:07] Ourasi Ferraris: loooooooolll

[12:07] Thibaud Merlin: booooo

[12:07] Ramzi Linden: so my first avatar was Ramzi Linden

[12:07] Laure Farella: so you never really played ? ;o)

[12:08] Ramzi Linden: and I still look the same today as I did when my avatar was born :)

[12:08] Yann Dufaux: and in 2004 itts the release 1.10 no? lol

[12:08] Ramzi Linden: I started when we were releasing version 1.4.

[12:08] Thibaud Merlin: wow

[12:08] Ramzi Linden: Version 1.4 was the first time you could make customized animations.

[12:08] Ourasi Ferraris: ⊙Noob ⊙

[12:08] Ourasi Ferraris: I have many freebies for if you want Ramzi loolll

[12:08] Yann Dufaux: hehe olà!

[12:08] Noelle Linden: what did you do at LL then?

[12:09] Noelle Linden: what were your first job and projects ?

[12:09] Ramzi Linden: Back then my first duties was to help Philip Linden. He is the founder and back then was the CEO

[12:09] Ramzi Linden: needless to say, he is a pretty busy guy

[12:09] Ramzi Linden: so I was his assistant to help him get things done!

[12:10] Ourasi Ferraris: ⊙ oO ⊙

[12:10] Ourasi Ferraris: my dream

[12:10] Noelle Linden: lol

[12:10] Ourasi Ferraris: oops

[12:10] Ourasi Ferraris: :))

[12:10] Ramzi Linden: After that, I started also to work as an assistant to Cory Linden. And then I became a project manager for the viewer project that worked on Notifications Redesign.

[12:11] Ramzi Linden: (Notifications meant all the ways which the viewer can pop up a message or blue window at you.)

[12:11] Ramzi Linden: Or an error message...

[12:11] Ramzi Linden: This pretty much brings me up to 2008 when I started to ship viewer releases.

[12:12] Noelle Linden: How is your typical workday at Linden Lab? What do you do exactly now?

[12:12] Ramzi Linden: I sit around and fix stuff....

[12:12] Ramzi Linden: Hehe, try not to break stuff.

[12:12] Gally Young: ;))

[12:12] Ramzi Linden: No.. what I spend most of my time is dealing with bugs, really.

[12:13] Ramzi Linden: Sometimes, I am the first person to report them

[12:13] Ourasi Ferraris: sometimes yess :))

[12:13] Ramzi Linden: Here is an example for yesterday (for real!): I was using a very early alpha build of the 1.23.0.0 viewer.

[12:13] Ramzi Linden: I wanted to make sure that F1 Help in French will open the URL for French.

[12:13] Ramzi Linden: Turns out,

[12:13] Yann Dufaux: woh

[12:13] Ramzi Linden: F1 Help wont open anything at all :(

[12:14] Ourasi Ferraris: héhé

[12:14] Thibaud Merlin: :))

[12:14] Noelle Linden: oops

[12:14] Lore Lamont: bravooo

[12:14] Laure Farella: ;o))

[12:14] Yann Dufaux: crash of try f1?

[12:14] Ramzi Linden: Thank goodness it didnt crash. But can you imagine the hilarity of a new resident pressing F1, and it does nothing??

[12:14] Ourasi Ferraris SL Crash Testet

[12:15] Yann Dufaux: i wait for an new mail with this magic version :)

[12:15] Ramzi Linden: More of the time during the day, I am working with our QA team (Quality Assurance).

[12:15] Ramzi Linden: I will often write up the list of new code and new fixes that need to be verified....

[12:15] Ramzi Linden: You know, tracking what is "Done" and "Fixed" and what is "STILL BROKE".

[12:16] Ramzi Linden: And, I write a lot of Test Plans for QA.

[12:16] Yann Dufaux: okey i can ask how many time aprox for build an new release version?

[12:16] Ramzi Linden: Yann, do you mean, how many times we might build a viewer 1.22 before we actually release it?

[12:17] You decline Clairiere de Nyctalopian, Ecole SL (144, 219, 21) from A group member named Sylpheline Savira.

[12:17] Noelle Linden: I think this is what Yann meant

[12:17] Ramzi Linden: In 1.22, we built it officially for testing 11 times (hence, the 1.22.11). But unofficially, we probably built the same branch of code 35 times.

[12:18] Noelle Linden: can you tell us what the next steps in the localization project of the wiewer are?

[12:19] Ramzi Linden: Well, I think our goal we just accomplished in the 1.22 viewer was to IMPROVE A LOT the three big languages that we support the most:

[12:19] Ramzi Linden: German is better now,

[12:19] Ramzi Linden: French is way better now (thanks to all of you working with Noelle),

[12:19] Ramzi Linden: nd Japanese is so much better translated.

[12:19] Ramzi Linden: Now, I think the goal for the 1.23 viewer is to add more languages, in a high-quality way.

[12:20] Ramzi Linden: Hey, the Spanish residents are suffering through a terrible translation-- We have to clean it up!

[12:20] Ramzi Linden: And we've never had a viewer in Italian.

[12:20] Noelle Linden: and many truncations too?

[12:20] Ramzi Linden: And we need to overhaul the Portuguese.

[12:20] Ramzi Linden: yes, lots of the languages outside of French, German, and Japanese have really bad truncations.

[12:21] Ramzi Linden: I am sure the French speaking residents remember the days of 1.20 viewer in French...

[12:21] Ramzi Linden: Also, we are trying to add Russian language, and Dutch, and Danish, and... and...

[12:21] Ourasi Ferraris: i was on english version at this time

[12:21] Yann Dufaux: yes, officialy in french , i said wow i'm very happy :)

[12:21] Thibaud Merlin: Ramzi, may i ask how many people are involved in the QA for all localized versions?

[12:21] Ramzi Linden: So I have to always manage a balance of which languages are getting attention, in the right priority.

[12:21] Ramzi Linden: Good question, Thibaud

[12:22] Ramzi Linden: Including me, I think it is 5.

[12:22] Ramzi Linden: Noelle and Rika and Simone here bear a lot of the burden (and the thanks!!!) for testing and showing me where their languages still have bugs.

[12:23] Ramzi Linden: And I know that each of them count on input from you !

[12:23] Simone Linden: Yes! Lots of great input from the German community!

[12:24] Noelle Linden: from the French as well !!

[12:24] Ramzi Linden: It's pretty amazing, when you think about how complex the viewer's interface is.

[12:24] Ramzi Linden: For example, we have words in our interface about the normal things (chat, IM, Map)

[12:24] Ramzi Linden: but also 3D rendering terms

[12:24] Ramzi Linden: and also words from the science of physics

[12:25] Thibaud Merlin: true

[12:25] Ramzi Linden: and also words from meterology (ever tried the Environment editor??)

[12:25] Ramzi Linden: So it is a lot to integrate into a quality localization, consistent throughout.

[12:26] Yann Dufaux: well, a new version with rain and snow , in environement editior nice idia :)

[12:26] Ramzi Linden: I would love to have weather in Second Life!!!

[12:26] Noelle Linden: I have another question.... [12:27] Ramzi Linden: ok [12:27] Noelle Linden: what do you think is the most difficult thing in localization?

[12:27] Ramzi Linden: can I have 2 answers?

[12:28] Lore Lamont: you get 4

[12:28] Ramzi Linden: One is, we keep hitting places of legacy code in the SL viewer.

[12:28] Noelle Linden: what do you mean ?

[12:29] Noelle Linden: "legacy code"?

[12:29] Ramzi Linden: It seems like a lot of the early work to make SL, back in 2001-2003, didn't plan on having so much flexibility with UTF-8

[12:29] Ramzi Linden: So now, when we need things to be in a translated language,

[12:29] Ourasi Ferraris: oh yess

[12:29] Noelle Linden: you mean international was not in LL"s radar at first?

[12:29] Ramzi Linden: we discover that a lot of cleanup work has to be done to the C++ code first.

[12:30] Ramzi Linden: Noelle- yes exactly! I think the early Lab was trying to get this crazy idea to work, and they didnt build it for maintainability. Here is an example:

[12:30] Ramzi Linden: Gestures. Press Ctrl+G right now to bring up Gestures(Gestes)

[12:30] Ramzi Linden: then click on New (Nouveau)

[12:31] Thibaud Merlin: done

[12:31] Ramzi Linden: do you see how the 4 possible choices in Library/Bibliotheque: are not translated?

[12:31] Ramzi Linden: Well, it was easy enough to get them translated... BUT.....

[12:31] Ramzi Linden: Once we translated these, I expect the viewer is able to handle the international characters.

[12:32] Ramzi Linden: The worst possible thing happened instead: it would crash.

[12:32] Ramzi Linden: It turns out the viewer's code was ASSUMING and COUNTING ON the fact that the piece of text would exactly match these english words: "Animation" "Sound", "Chat", or "Wait".

[12:32] Ramzi Linden: That is so lame, don't you agree?

[12:32] Noelle Linden: YYEEESSS

[12:32] Ramzi Linden: The original code was never written to anticipate that these words would never change. So now we are working to fix that bug in this piece of code.

[12:32] Lara Shepherd: :)

[12:32] Thibaud Merlin: it's so often the case with early software devlopment

[12:32] Ourasi Ferraris: yesss

[12:33] Ramzi Linden: But you can see how it feels like F-o-r-e-v-e-r before we can deliver you more translations.

[12:33] Ramzi Linden: And for my second answer.....

[12:33] Ramzi Linden: I guess the biggest issue for me is that the viewer is more than "just the viewer software" which you download.

[12:34] Ramzi Linden: SL viewer is really a "window pane" that lets you peer into at least 5 things.

[12:34] Ramzi Linden: What do I mean by these 5 things?

[12:34] Ramzi Linden: 1) It let's you see a 3D world.... These are the graphics that come down from each region/simulator.

[12:34] Ramzi Linden: 2) It let's you see a user interface -- (words that are installed on your hard drive)

[12:34] Ramzi Linden: 3) When you open Search, you're actually really looking at a webpage being drawn inside the viewer.

[12:35] Ramzi Linden: 4) Groups and IM and chat are exchanging text through our server messaging systems.

[12:35] Ramzi Linden: AND...

[12:35] Ramzi Linden: 5) The Inventory window is

[12:35] Ramzi Linden: is basically a direct portal into the folder system for you, directly on our asset database.

[12:35] Thibaud Merlin: plain garbage loll

[12:36] Ramzi Linden: LOL!!

[12:36] Noelle Linden: :-)

[12:36] Noelle Linden: (The French are very direct ;-)

[12:36] Ramzi Linden: So, localization becomes pretty hard problem of technical coordination.

[12:36] Ourasi Ferraris: mine too thibaud :(

[12:36] Ramzi Linden: I can localize the words on your hard drive pretty easily

[12:36] Ramzi Linden: but I have to work with 4 other teams to make sure you Search (web) is also localized in the same language

[12:36] Yann Dufaux: hmm, well i see .. i have other question why this web internal is not compatible with flash player plugin?:)

[12:37] Ramzi Linden: Yann- yup, good question. The internal web browser uses a version of mozilla

[12:38] Ramzi Linden: and mozilla has turned out to be EXTREMELY hard to get Flash support to work properly.

[12:38] Thibaud Merlin: but yu ate about to change that aren't you?

[12:38] Ramzi Linden: Even when we almost get it to work on Windows, it is super harder on Mac and linux

[12:38] Yann Dufaux: ty:)

[12:38] Ramzi Linden: Thibaud- right. There is a project with very smart developers who are trying to solve that problem.

[12:38] Ourasi Ferraris: I think

[12:38] Ramzi Linden: We want Flash as much as you!!!

[12:39] Ramzi Linden: There is so much more I coudl do in SL if it showed Flash.

[12:39] Ramzi Linden: Smarter people than me are working on that problem.

[12:39] Ramzi Linden: :)

[12:39] Noelle Linden: talking about Mac.... On a Mac, the client is not performing as well as on Windows. Will something be done in the future to change this? if not, are there any tricks to improve the performance of the client on a mac ?

[12:39] Yann Dufaux: because i think if you need to devlop a video conferance you need flash media :)

[12:40] Ramzi Linden: Ooh, Noelle asks the hard questions :)

[12:40] Noelle Linden: the question is from a resident :-)

[12:40] Ramzi Linden: is anyone here running on Mac?

[12:40] Noelle Linden: from Laurent right ?

[12:40] Laurent Bechir: yes, I'm running amac

[12:40] Laurent Bechir: mac :)

[12:41] Ourasi Ferraris: (hamac laurent hein^^)

[12:41] Ramzi Linden: I love that SL has always committed to supporting cross-platform. As it turns out, most people run SL on WindowsXP

[12:41] Ramzi Linden: but the size of the Mac residents is still pretty big!

[12:41] Thibaud Merlin: yep it's the best platform so far

[12:42] Ramzi Linden: At last check (not an official number here...)

[12:42] Ramzi Linden: I think it was about 7% running on Mac.

[12:42] Ramzi Linden: And yeah, the viewer doesnt work as well on Mac.

[12:42] Ramzi Linden: What could help is more testing on Macs-- using a wider variety of Mac hardware.

[12:43] Ramzi Linden: I dont personally know what the engineering plans are to change this. The problem is always a matter of staff and resources.

[12:43] Ramzi Linden: Also, there was an example of the big big problem in recent history with Mac freezes. Does anyone remember VWR-7779 ?

[12:43] Ramzi Linden: "Mac viewer suffers from cyclic pauses/freezes/hangs"

[12:44] Ourasi Ferraris: mac users remeber ^^

[12:44] Noelle Linden: actually it seems much better now

[12:44] Thibaud Merlin: oh ramzi that lets me think, is a sl team already working on the port to win 7?

[12:44] Laurent Bechir: I'm quite happy on my mac :)

[12:44] Ramzi Linden: There have been examples where Mac hardware is compounded by overheating and overtaxing the GPU...

[12:45] Ramzi Linden: I am told this is because the OpenGL is a bit more tricky on Mac drivers.

[12:45] Ramzi Linden: And, it is easier for 3D rendering to "not play nice" with Apple drivers. So we have to tread carefully to get it to work under the drivers that Apple ships. [12:46] Ramzi Linden: I poked around for "tricks to improve the performance" on Mac, if you want I can mention them

[12:46] Noelle Linden: sure

[12:46] Laurent Bechir: yes please

[12:47] Ramzi Linden: The engineers told me the main contributors to machine heating are SL's use of pixel shaders, fill, and overdraw.

[12:47] Ramzi Linden: this is what causes a Mac to go into high fan mode-- working real hard!

[12:48] Ramzi Linden: Prims, by nature, are polygon heavy and create lots of overdraw, due to their many overlapping surfaces. There's not much you can do to avoid this part, in a 3D world.

[12:48] Ramzi Linden: but the water shader (in Preferences > Graphics) is fairly "expensive" to the compute, and covers a large portion of the screen, so that would be the first thing to disable.

[12:48] Yann Dufaux: sorry if i'm set to busy i,m here .. because i recive too many tp .. grrrrrr lol

[12:49] Ramzi Linden: * also the windlight sky uses a pixel shader that touches the entire screen, so that would be another thing to disable (Preferences > Graphics > Atmospheric rendering).

[12:49] Yann Dufaux: can you devlop an parameter in cilble -noteleport for cancel all tp? lol

[12:49] Noelle Linden: ok

[12:49] Ramzi Linden: Also they say that using the "Classic Clouds" produce a ridiculous amount of overdraw, so you can turn them off . [12:50] Ramzi Linden: (World menu > Environment Settings > Environment Editor > Advanced Sky > Clouds tab > [_] Draw Classic Clouds )

[12:50] Ramzi Linden: or ( Monde > Environnement > Éditeur d'environnement > Ciel avancé > Nuages > [_] Nuages classiques )

[12:50] Noelle Linden: good to know

[12:51] Noelle Linden: We only have 10mn left

[12:51] Laurent Bechir: yes, thank you

[12:52] Noelle Linden: there is one last thing I wanted to ask.

[12:52] Noelle Linden: LL is working with Bigspaceship to change the "ergonomy" of the client, what will be the impacts on localized viewers ?

[12:52] Thibaud Merlin: good question

[12:52] Noelle Linden: could you say a few words about that

[12:52] Ramzi Linden: HARD QUESTION AGAIN! you're killing me! :)

[12:52] julhien Hotaling: lol

[12:52] Garmin Kawaguichi: :)))

[12:52] Noelle Linden: it's GALLY ;-)

[12:52] Ourasi Ferraris: looolll

[12:52] Gally Young: ツ

[12:52] Ramzi Linden: lol

[12:52] Ramzi Linden: hi Gally!

[12:52] Gally Young: hi Ramzi )

[12:53] Ourasi Ferraris: Gally tu pourrais avoir pitié d'elle on on a encore besoin ^^

[12:53] Ramzi Linden: My fast answer is that the new client with the BigSpaceShip designs will include MORE internationlization.

[12:53] Ramzi Linden: More of those random words that appear in english, will be translatable by then.

[12:53] Noelle Linden: finally !!!!

[12:53] Noelle Linden: yayyyy

[12:54] Ramzi Linden: I think if you said that, maybe 20% of the viewer still appears in English right now.... then

[12:54] Ramzi Linden: I think that number will be more like 8% after the redesigned viewer.

[12:55] Noelle Linden: when ?

[12:55] Ramzi Linden: The last thing I heard was from Howard Linden's blog post, and he mentioned in 2009.

[12:56] Ramzi Linden: I guess we can safely say before December!

[12:57] Ramzi Linden: I have a experiment to show you what is the goal of that BigSpaceShip design, in a nutshell.

[12:57] Ramzi Linden: do this: click on All 9 buttons at the very bottom of your screen.

[12:57] Ramzi Linden: can anyone even still see the chat??

[12:58] Thibaud Merlin: lol

[12:58] Ramzi Linden: Hello??? :)

[12:58] Ramzi Linden: All of us are now buried in floating windows!!! Come back, come back. Close them now. :)

[12:58] Thibaud Merlin: scarcely:)

[12:58] Surfaqua Oh: the chat

[12:58] Laurent Bechir: :)

[12:58] Ramzi Linden: This is the kind of problem we are going to fix with BigSpaceShip and other designs.

[12:58] Noelle Linden: not quite

[12:59] Ramzi Linden: It's just not intuitive to keep dumping windows on top of the 3D world.

[12:59] Ramzi Linden: That is what the new viewer will feel alot smoother about. So it will equally improve English and every other language in the viewer.

[13:00] Ramzi Linden: well, i think i used up all the time. I hope you werent also going to meet about other agenda items!!

[13:00] Ramzi Linden: Sorry :)

[13:00] Lore Lamont: it was really intersting!!

[13:00] Noelle Linden: no the meeting was all for you

[13:00] Lara Shepherd: thanks so much Ramzi :)

[13:00] Ourasi Ferraris: thanks Ramzi for this meeting :)

[13:00] Noelle Linden: I am sorry there is no more time for questions....

[13:01] Thibaud Merlin: that was really amazing Ramzi!!

[13:01] Noelle Linden: Ramzi it means you'll have to come back

[13:01] Laurent Bechir: thank you

[13:01] julhien Hotaling: thanks ramzi :)

[13:01] Ramzi Linden: In short, I would say: keep sending Noelle, Simone and Rika your bugs and your feedback! We want to ship better viewers for the non-English world.

[13:01] Gally Young: yes, very interesting, thanks Ramzi ))

[13:01] Ramzi Linden: and we need your help always!

[13:01] Yann Dufaux: well, thank you Ramzi its very apprciated this meeting :)

[13:01] Ourasi Ferraris: :)

[13:01] Ramzi Linden: Thanks for your questions too.

[13:01] Yann Dufaux: merci Noelle!! :))

[13:01] Noelle Linden: thank you Ramzi, thank you all for coming, I'll post the transcript on wiki

[13:01] Rika Linden: Thank you Ramzi for very interesting stuff. :)

[13:01] Ramzi Linden: Yikes, I was on the record? :)

[13:02] Yann Dufaux: merci a tous c'étais vraiment interessant:)

[13:02] Laurent Bechir: and thank you for the answers :)

[13:02] Ramzi Linden: Hi MOM!!

[13:02] Noelle Linden: :-)

[13:02] Thibaud Merlin: hahah

[13:02] julhien Hotaling: ;)

[13:02] Ourasi Ferraris: loolll

[13:02] Ourasi Ferraris: you're a star now ^^

[13:02] Laurent Bechir: :)

[13:02] Ramzi Linden: LOL

[13:02] Noelle Linden: can we have a signed bear?

[13:02] Ourasi Ferraris: loooooolll

[13:02] Noelle Linden: ;-)

[13:03] Yann Dufaux: i wait with impatiance after a new pn version now :p

[13:03] Noelle Linden: see you all soon

[13:03] Ramzi Linden: In all of 5 years, I still cant make a pretty bear! they all turn out ugly!!

[13:03] Ourasi Ferraris: yess your bear Ramzi please

[13:03] Noelle Linden: I hear you

[13:03] Ourasi Ferraris: looll

[13:03] Ramzi Linden: Ask Noelle, she saw my sad attempt at a bear hat.

[13:03] Noelle Linden: mine is still having surgery every day

[13:03] Ramzi Linden: Thanks everyone! See you inworld more!

[13:03] Yann Dufaux: eh you don't have bear Ramzi?:)

[13:04] Ourasi Ferraris: lolll

[13:04] Noelle Linden: bye !!!

[13:04] Lore Lamont: bye bye ramzi

[13:04] Ourasi Ferraris: see you Ramzi :)

[13:04] Laurent Bechir: bye

[13:04] Yann Dufaux: :(

[13:04] Garmin Kawaguichi: bye

[13:04] julhien Hotaling: bye

[13:04] Lara Shepherd: bye ramzi

[13:04] Ourasi Ferraris: have a goos day

[13:04] Gally Young: see you Ramzi, thanks ㋡

[13:04] JLG Chevalier: bye Ramzi, nice to meet you

[13:04] Ourasi Ferraris: good*

[13:04] Surfaqua Oh: bye ramzi

[13:04] Thibaud Merlin: see you Ramzi :)

[13:04] Rika Linden: Bye everyone. ^^

[13:04] Laurent Bechir: and thank you again

[13:04] Ramzi Linden: you too- have a great day (or night, in France)

[13:04] Surfaqua Oh: bye rika

[13:04] julhien Hotaling: bye rika

[13:04] Ourasi Ferraris: bye Rika

[13:05] Gally Young: bye Rika )

[13:05] Ourasi Ferraris: bon bon bon

[13:05] Noelle Linden: i am waiting for my taxi ride....

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