Difference between revisions of "User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 Oct 30"

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(Reverting to original version after IM'ing with Tree)
 
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* [12:25] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  hello Gareth and Zha :)
* [13:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - I do have a bit of a monologue to start so - well, listen' up
* [12:26] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  hey
* [13:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now, there have been some really good questions raised about the scope and extent of the AWG,
* [12:26] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  didn't see you there Zha
* [13:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  And about how it is going to go about its business
* [12:26] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  heh
* [13:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  And some outside events have caused even more stir
* [12:26] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  have I missed much in the last week ?
* [13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Lastly, there has been some amount of, er, animosity in the wiki editing
* [12:27] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Hey. I snug in quietly, on my high heels.
* [13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - my goal here is to clear some of this up
* [12:27] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  hasn't been turning up to the office hours as much as i shoudl be
* [13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  First off - I take a fair bit of blame
* [12:27] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  *snuck
* [13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  The timing of the first AWG meeting was really bad for me
* [12:27] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  *should
* [13:24] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  oh goody
* [12:28] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  looks like no transcripts have gone up either :(
* [13:24] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  argh
* [12:28] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  funny thing is what i have been doing is coding tons
* [13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  right after I gave 4 public appearances - two of them big talks out of town
* [12:28] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  man leave for a weeek and everything goes to pot :)
* [13:24] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-= push it
* [12:28] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  got some nice packet encoding stuff to merge with streamlet
* [13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  kill the particles
* [12:29] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Excellent. Gareth, are you on top of mulib, or alongside?
* [13:24] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  A griefer?
* [12:29] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zha: it's all built on top of mulib
* [13:24] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  just ignore them.. they go away
* [12:29] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  I thought so. Good.
* [13:24] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  shouts: turn the DS off
* [12:29] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  I am hoping to have a small mulib server up shortly to tinker with
* [13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  contol-alt-shift-minus
* [12:29] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  streamlet gives a nice HTTP-based event queue system
* [13:25] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  That was pretty stupid, whoever it was
* [12:30] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  And.. I think that Which's dict example, is not idempotent, and I need to try and think about how to mod it so it becomes so.
* [13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which doesn't work in my viewer ... dang
* [12:30] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  need to finish off mudata and muauth too
* [13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  anyhow
* [12:30] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  stares at the missing textures of the chairs that aren't tehre
* [13:25] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  mine either
* [12:30] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Its idempoitent on read, but on put.. I think itviolates RESTs rules on idempotent
* [13:25] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  LOL
* [12:30] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Hi Tree
* [13:25] [[User:Jessica Qin|Jessica Qin]]:  ctrl-alt-shift-=
* [12:31] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Two sucessive putters don't find out they clashed, and that's a deep REST no-no.
* [13:25] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  try ctrl+alt+shift+= zero
* [12:31] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  hello
* [13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - I've been a bit absent
* [12:32] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  afk for quick nibbles
* [13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  in anyevent
* [12:32] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  giggles
* [13:25] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  go into PREFS
* [12:32] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Good idea. Coffee, tho, for me
* [13:25] [[User:No Freenote|No Freenote]]:  it's obviously a public service announcement.
* [12:34] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  coffee would be good
* [13:25] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  and put paritcal count on ZERO
* [12:35] [[User:Warthog Jun|Warthog Jun]]:  oh wow a place to sit
* [13:25] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  tadah
* [12:35] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  Mal I like your profile mini website
* [13:26] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  not in kansas anymore <--- repeat
* [12:36] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Thanks Tree - still working on getting as much in as possible
* [13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  stop IMing me with who it is -
* [12:37] [[User:Warthog Jun|Warthog Jun]]:  zoo keeper
* [13:26] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  wow.. good call Jenzza... even if you have never passed the bar
* [12:37] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Yup - seting is rare here normally
* [13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  turn off your particles
* [12:39] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  anyone know if you can communicate with SL from the mini profile web browser yet?
* [13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'll deal with them later
* [12:40] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  you can partly i think - SL messenger loads into it
* [13:27] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero - can we be told what subjects have been the target of this animosity on the wiki?
* [12:41] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't even know what the mini-profile web browser is
* [13:27] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but really - if it is you - kill the damn particles
* [12:41] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  prob most web-based SL services
* [13:27] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  zero, please shout, i dont get your say !
* [12:41] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  display area is pain though
* [13:27] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  shouts: zero, please shout, i dont get your say !
* [12:41] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  yes it seems trivial to make that box expand...
* [13:27] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: please shout Zero
* [12:41] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  oh, there it is
* [13:27] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Yes - ise shout Zero
* [12:41] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  your webpage in profile
* [13:27] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  no - I'm not going to air arguments between people that we should just avoid from now own
* [12:42] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  you can design to size and there are ways to incorporate tabs
* [13:27] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  ok
* [12:42] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  something called SLeek was just mentioned. A chat only client?
* [13:28] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Can you all hear me now?
* [12:42] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  your profile in webpage rather?
* [13:28] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  i do
* [12:42] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  sleek is pretty nifty
* [13:28] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  good
* [12:42] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  i used to use it to chat with peeps I was collaborating with on projects while at work without a computer that would run SL
* [13:28] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So -
* [12:42] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  not sure i used SLeek - seem to recall name though
* [13:28] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: I can
* [12:42] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Hi Wyn
* [13:28] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  yes
* [12:42] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  it was one of the products of LibSecondLIfe
* [13:28] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  nods
* [12:43] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  only text-only client I ever got to work
* [13:28] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  hmm.. if they couldnt hear you they cant answer
* [12:43] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  hey there wyn
* [13:28] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  First - IBM and LL had an announcement - the press release
* [12:43] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Heya Wyn
* [13:28] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  ya
* [12:43] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  waves at  all the newcomers
* [13:29] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  is that release on the blog zero? I missed it
* [12:43] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  Thanks Rob.
* [13:29] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Rob: it is, and try not to sidetrack Zero
* [12:43] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Hello
* [13:30] [[User:Bob Bunderfeld|Bob Bunderfeld]]:  Zero, that release didn't mention anything about IBM helping LL with equipment or technical issues to do with the servers, is there anything forthcoming that would lead us to believe IBM is helping internally to help actually Stabilize the GRID?
* [12:43] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]: is Zero dropping in or are we just borrowing his office?
* [13:31] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Scripts are off, so they probably can't turn off their own particles. :)
* [12:44] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  can someone remove the male sex behind me ?
* [13:31] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  the press release was pretty clear abut what it was
* [12:44] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  uhm
* [13:31] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  zero, is linden concerned about the recent partnership between google and multiverse? why didnt you guys sign up with google, too?
* [12:44] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Zero's office hours in about 15 minutes
* [13:31] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero: to elaborate on what Bob said: is it right to say that IBM are only offering coloboration on protocol design?
* [12:44] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  yes - we are eraly
* [13:31] [[User:Goldie Katsu|Goldie Katsu]]:  Can we let Zero finish the intro.
* [12:44] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  where catherine?
* [13:31] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Really
* [12:45] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  GIgs!
* [13:32] [[User:Bob Bunderfeld|Bob Bunderfeld]]:  So, you are saying IBM and LL are only partnering to make a global way to for Avatars to go between worlds, and not actually helping LL with the tech issues plaguing Second Life now?
* [12:45] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  you all are here early
* [13:32] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  IBM is 1) working on some specific projects with LL 1-on-1
* [12:45] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  hi tree
* [13:32] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  2) trying to engage a larger, industry wide effort
* [12:46] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  :)
* [13:33] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  please turn off the darn pot leaves, already? will ya...... geez...\
* [12:46] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  hi Gigs
* [13:33] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  Client/Render/Particle...leaves all gone..
* [12:46] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  hi
* [13:33] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  ty
* [12:46] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  I'm early but very.... unhappy.. reinstalling windows :/
* [13:33] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  the first doesn't really directly releat to the AWG or other efforts - we are just involved in some mutual development
* [12:46] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  I've got to leave half way through :(
* [13:34] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  The second is a process that was started by IBM at the Virtual World conference in San Jose last month
* [12:46] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Rob, my Japanese is horrid. What does Showakusai mean?
* [13:34] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I've met wtih them today
* [12:47] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  HAY GUYS
* [13:34] [[User:Entering god|Entering god]]:  mode, level 200
* [12:47] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  Asteroid
* [13:34] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  3) IBM is directly present in AWG through Zha.
* [12:47] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  ah, kool
* [12:47] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  "Showakusei"
* [12:47] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  I hear this is where the cool kids hang out.
* [12:47] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  kusei, thnks
* [12:47] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  only the geey ones
* [12:47] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't stink, thanks very much :P
* [12:47] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  was that a giant fedora logo i just saw?
* [12:47] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  whats with all the "f"s?
* [12:48] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  who's got the fedora particles?
* [12:48] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  They're freedom bubbles.
* [12:48] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  that f looks like the fedora core logo
* [12:48] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  blatant linux promotion?
* [12:48] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  "f" this, "f" that
* [12:48] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  It one of the meetings that will never be visited by Prokofy.
* [12:48] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  haha
* [12:48] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  freedom bubbles
* [12:48] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  that are half-infinities
* [12:48] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Actually, Prok came by once, ages ago.
* [12:48] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Zero.. was... IMpressive
* [12:48] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zha: hmm?
* [12:48] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Freedom, in bubble form.
* [12:48] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  wishes he was there
* [12:48] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  Seg - Fedora saved my ass over the past few days
* [12:49] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Fedora rocks
* [12:49] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  i'm running it right now
* [12:49] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  the KDE menu button is that exact logo
* [12:49] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  I still demand an answer to my Time Cube question!
* [12:49] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  oh no seg, you contributed to the evil that is CSI:NY?
* [12:49] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  time cube?
* [12:49] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  CITIZENS DEMAND ANSWERS!
* [12:49] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  haha
* [12:49] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  huh?
* [12:49] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Still it's a almost Prokofy free zone.
* [12:50] [[User:Chosen Raymaker|Chosen Raymaker]]:  d
* [12:50] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  Don't Taze Me Bro!
* [12:50] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  hahahahaha DONT TAZE ME BRO
* [12:50] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Oh dear, never good to TP to a place and the first line you hear mentions Prok
* [12:50] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  makes a mental note to create a Tazer in SL
* [12:50] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  "OMG THEY ARE HANDING ME OVER THO THE GOVERNMENT"
* [12:50] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  The future architecture of Second Life must properly employ nature's harmonious 4-day time cube.
* [12:51] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  LOL
* [12:51] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  was delighting in a meeting that wouldn't have that issue, Morgaine ;)
* [12:51] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I think they should craft SL as a moebius loop so you can never reach the end... o.o
* [12:51] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Ring world.
* [12:51] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  ya know, that or a globe
* [12:51] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  The good news it that it was mostly abouth w Zero chesed Prok into silence elegently
* [12:51] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  I agree Rob
* [12:51] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  I would have loved to have seen that.
* [12:52] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  My coffee maker has moebius drip
* [12:52] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I want to be able to TP to places using the same interface as the Wii Weather Channel and News Channel if you know them...
* [12:52] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  LOL TRee!
* [12:52] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  gosh, they so need an SP3 version of XP.. get rid of "Msn explorer"
* [12:52] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  ?
* [12:52] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  last I heard you don't have to use MSNE
* [12:52] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  I seem to be lagging hardcore.
* [12:52] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  yea but its still a default install :)
* [12:53] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  sim is running great so its all you SEg
* [12:53] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  become a power user - default uninstall it :P
* [12:53] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  if a kid never shut up you could say they were giving you moebius lip
* [12:53] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  hahaha
* [12:53] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  PUnny Tree
* [12:53] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't know if that's possible given the current lip-continuum
* [12:53] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  hey did you all hear that dark matter doesnt exist?
* [12:54] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  now I'm curious, how do you spell continuum?
* [12:54] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  is that right?
* [12:54] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  it was in the news today
* [12:54] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  NO, gEORGE bUSH is STIL ALIVE
* [12:54] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  DARK MATTER
* [12:54] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Well dark matter is hard to see at night
* [12:54] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  lol
* [12:54] [[User:Chosen Raymaker|Chosen Raymaker]]:  dark matter doesnt exist? what is the stuff then?
* [12:54] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  they say that gravity doesnt behave as we think it does
* [12:54] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I have dark matter inside my lightbulb - when I flip the switch off the containment field drops and it sucks in all the light.
* [12:54] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  even nothing is something
* [12:55] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Dark Matter is just gaffer tape. Any engineer knows what holds the universe together.
* [12:55] [[User:Dimitrio Lewis|Dimitrio Lewis]]:  gravity is very misunderstood
* [12:55] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  dark matter is actually an extension of Michael Moore's ass
* [12:55] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  hah
* [12:55] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  LOL Gigs.
* [12:55] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  lol @ gigs
* [12:55] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  michael moore is great
* [12:55] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  very smart
* [12:55] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  he's a friend of mine
* [12:55] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  OH NOHS
* [12:55] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  weird dude
* [12:55] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Gravity wins.
* [12:55] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I am in a continually losing battle with gravity.
* [12:55] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  SICKO was a great movie
* [12:55] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  People take Moore too seriously.
* [12:56] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  We watch all the Michael Moore stuff, haven't seen SICKO yet though.
* [12:56] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  I fell in with Gravity at a young age...
* [12:56] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  if they LET themselves take him too seriously
* [12:56] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  its what he says, the facts, that i pay attention to
* [12:56] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  not him as a man
* [12:56] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  Moore has just understood that the European development model is the correct one.
* [12:56] [[User:Aymeric Yalin|Aymeric Yalin]]:  Script run-time error
* [12:56] [[User:Aymeric Yalin|Aymeric Yalin]]:  Stack-Heap Collision
* [12:56] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  fell for Gravity even now.
* [12:56] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  it always visits in the fall
* [12:56] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  He's a satirist.
* [12:56] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I think he's a politicist
* [12:56] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  i learned how the other models operate though
* [12:56] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Moore is great for pointing out things we should be considering.
* [12:56] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  what he says is factual though so why a politicist
* [12:57] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  because he's into politics?
* [12:57] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Meh. The british dude said it best.
* [12:57] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  Hi everybody
* [12:57] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  He does expose the facts, and where are the electric cars?
* [12:57] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  If there's money to bomb people, there's money to heal them.
* [12:57] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  factie: a particle of truthiness
* [12:57] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  Hi basil.
* [12:57] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  well he is still making more money thatn you and wil always be more successful
* [12:57] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  40 peeps
* [12:57] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  truthiness to power
* [12:57] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  Zero better show up
* [12:57] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Zero won't be able to get in!
* [12:57] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  truthiness hehe
* [12:58] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  We should have a display here so he can pipe himself in
* [12:58] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  COLBERT '08
* [12:58] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  Wyn - great thing about being a linden.... they can always get in :)
* [12:58] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  zero is more popular than Jesus
* [12:58] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  LOL will need an invite to his own office
* [12:58] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  Lindsey - oh boy.. don't even go there
* [12:58] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  whose jesus?
* [12:58] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Oh that reminds me I have Americone Dream in the freezer.
* [12:58] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  No politics.
* [12:58] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  hehe
* [12:58] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I want to address why the damn viewer can't release chunks of page file I'm no longer using, so my page file ends up at 2GB by the end of my SL session
* [12:58] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Healthy breakfast!
* [12:58] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  IM NOT WITH YOU
* [12:58] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  waste of time
* [12:58] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Or religion
* [12:59] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  i dont like fiction
* [12:59] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  me neitherr
* [12:59] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  Lindsey - they were saying, if Colbert actually gets elected or on a primary, Comedy Central is gonna be in some serious legal trouble.
* [12:59] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  any sign of Zero yet?
* [12:59] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  i heard
* [12:59] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  reminds all geek-oriented people that AW Groupies is the in-world discussion group for the design of SL "2.0" and 3.0
* [12:59] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  why would they be in trouble? advertising?
* [12:59] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  they have to be careful about everything he does.
* [12:59] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  IM me or Zha Ewry for an invite to the group
* [12:59] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Why?
* [13:00] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  Page files in general should be set to a fixed size to prevent fragmentation
* [13:00] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  LESS POLITICS, MORE CAKE!
* [13:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  I thought invites required writing something minimally technical on the wiki first :-)))
* [13:00] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  the cake is a lie!
* [13:00] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  smoke bongs
* [13:00] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  no, variable page files keep SL from crashing when it goes to 998MB
* [13:00] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  ah
* [13:00] [[User:Eddy Stryker|Eddy Stryker]]:  the cake is not a lie
* [13:00] [[User:Eddy Stryker|Eddy Stryker]]:  there is proof
* [13:00] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero is online
* [13:00] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  At the end of the meeting, you will be baked, and there will be cake.
* [13:00] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't know where the hell all that data comes from....I dont' think the textures are worth a gig
* [13:00] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  hehe
* [13:01] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  poor avatars on the sim border
* [13:01] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  he
* [13:01] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  zero cant get in
* [13:01] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  we full?
* [13:01] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  heh
* [13:01] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  i think so
* [13:01] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I think zero can go wherever he wants, no?
* [13:01] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  height of irony
* [13:01] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  i've been working on memory leaks recently
* [13:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Hey, we knew cake was involved long before Portal. HHGG's Total Perspective Vortex was extrapolated from a slice of fairy cake :-)
* [13:01] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Memory usage is rather high, post voice.
* [13:01] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  well i see 4 avatars at sim border trying to get in
* [13:01] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  there's a couple of bugs that are already addressed but it requires LL integrated them :-(
* [13:01] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  he should be able to get in by entering god mode
* [13:02] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't understand why SL of all things uses twice the RAM of my Quake 4
* [13:02] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  it sure shouldn't
* [13:02] [[User:Groove Market|Groove Market]]:  cheer
* [13:02] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  Textures.
* [13:02] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  the sheer amount of textures it has to render
* [13:02] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Has anyone compiled the viewer with -Wpadded yet? ;P
* [13:02] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  there can't be 2 gigs of textures that SL needs at all times, no?
* [13:02] [[User:Chosen Raymaker|Chosen Raymaker]]:  welcome 0
* [13:02] [[User:Pixel Gausman|Pixel Gausman]]:  rob: tessellation of prims cached
* [13:02] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  huh?
* [13:02] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  compared to a typical quake map you have like ten times the textures in SL
* [13:03] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  hmm... sim is set to 41 peeps
* [13:03] [[User:Eddy Stryker|Eddy Stryker]]:  you also have huge textures in SL
* [13:03] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  Yeah, the irony is that amateur content is what makes things so heavy
* [13:03] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  and an uncompressed 1024x1024 texture takes up quite some space
* [13:03] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  If it was all pro and nice looking it would also run better
* [13:03] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  that doesn't make much sense...but I understand the huge texture issue - SL should drop the ones it doesn't need at the moment though, to save my poor PC
* [13:03] [[User:Pixel Gausman|Pixel Gausman]]:  SL has to tessellate Prims, quake uses triangle based formats.
* [13:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  yikes
* [13:03] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  WOOH OOO
* [13:03] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I don't know what you mean by that Pixel
* [13:03] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  Zero is in the build
* [13:03] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  something wrong, Zero?
* [13:03] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Finally!
* [13:03] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  SL is designed to handle LOD dynamically.
* [13:03] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  'lo?
* [13:03] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Blnk, blink
* [13:04] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  It just isn't doing it as well as it should.
* [13:04] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  hey, Zero is here
* [13:04] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  who is Zero?? and who cares
* [13:04] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  hehe,,u got them lined up at sim border trying to get in zero
* [13:04] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  Sup Rob
* [13:04] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  lod - level of detail
* [13:04] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  (Other rob)
* [13:04] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Zero: thanks for the use case for region scalability :-)
* [13:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'm Zero - and I care, 'cause this is my office hours!
* [13:04] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  lmao
* [13:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  okay - let's see - is the pooley stage available?
* [13:04] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Welcome Zero LInden
* [13:05] [[User:LindseyWorth Voom|LindseyWorth Voom]]:  hmm ok
* [13:05] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  thise place is good
* [13:05] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  other peeps want to hear
* [13:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I see over 10 people waiting to get in
* [13:05] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  The pooley stage would indeed be more adequate
* [13:05] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  Is Dr Dobbs open?
* [13:05] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  yes
* [13:05] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Wow. Full sim and then some
* [13:05] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Is there something big for today?
* [13:05] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  "The Future of SL" brought to you by Zero and CO
* [13:05] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  A move would be against the agenda
* [13:05] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  or the ibm 4 corner auditorium
* [13:05] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  want a seat Zero?
* [13:06] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  I'll give up me seat too
* [13:06] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  folks, Zero can just make a seat...
* [13:06] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  The floor works fine. It's a bit damp, but it'll do :-)
* [13:06] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Or raise the sim limit
* [13:06] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  your right
* [13:06] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  hehe
* [13:06] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Dang - awlays crash here
* [13:06] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  no.yes..raise sim limit
* [13:06] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  We can do Pooley Stage too
* [13:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  hold on
* [13:07] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  But Zero, definatly need to get a bigger venue :)
* [13:07] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  To proviide more space for other people the sim will reboot in 3, 2, 1, ... ^^
* [13:07] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  heh
* [13:07] [[User:Kooky Jetaime|Kooky Jetaime]]:  hahaha Squirrel
* [13:07] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  gah, don't build :P
* [13:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Hehe Squirrel
* [13:07] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Raise limit, turn off physics. :)
* [13:07] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Time for Zero to have his own sim.
* [13:07] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  If we moves to a larger area for more avi's , then it might slow down others... remember SL4B
* [13:08] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  watch everyone fall through the floor
* [13:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  SL4B was "interesting". I'd never seen 3D at 0.001 FPS before.
* [13:08] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  shouts: hang on guys.. making room or moving location!!!
* [13:08] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  SL4B?
* [13:08] [[User:Mae Whitfield|Mae Whitfield]]:  shouts: Wooo! Thank you!
* [13:09] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  sl 4th bd
* [13:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  SL's 4th birthday celebration
* [13:09] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  SL4B... even Philip Linden couldn't log in
* [13:09] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  heh, it was impassible
* [13:09] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  yes..they want in, big crowd now
* [13:09] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Oh yeah.
* [13:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  shouts: Pooley Stage! Go!
* [13:09] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  i can't even see Zero's avatar
* [13:09] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  zero is here? ;-)
* [13:09] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  someone send me a TP to pooley
* [13:09] [[User:Catherine Pfeffer|Catherine Pfeffer]]:  ok... let's go to pooley
* [13:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  shouts: Pooley Stage - Go!
* [13:09] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  ibm has amazing sim.. just sitting empty.. 4 sim corners
* [13:09] [[User:Pixel Gausman|Pixel Gausman]]:  tp
* [13:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  We need a group like AWG but for client scalability.
* [13:09] [[User:Pixel Gausman|Pixel Gausman]]:  ?
* [13:09] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  s;ir;
* [13:09] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  slurl?
* [13:09] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  shouts: POOLEY STAGE!!
* [13:10] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  SLURL pls
* [13:10] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  shouts: go to pooley stage,.,,meeting there
* [13:10] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  puts forths a shameless plug: Leopard Already [adapted
* [13:12] [[User:Butch Dae|Butch Dae]]:  Where is everyone going?
* [13:12] [[User:Warthog Jun|Warthog Jun]]:  they changed location
* [13:13] [[User:Butch Dae|Butch Dae]]:  Where?
* [13:13] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  Pooley Stage
* [13:13] [[User:Unmasked Shepherd|Unmasked Shepherd]]:  and it's already full
* [13:13] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  hi everybody. what is going on?
* [13:13] [[User:Warthog Jun|Warthog Jun]]:  that tears it
* [13:15] [[User:Burhop Piccard|Burhop Piccard]]:  Rob, got a slurl?
* [13:15] [[User:Tricky Reifsnider|Tricky Reifsnider]]:  hi everybody
* [13:15] [[User:Burhop Piccard|Burhop Piccard]]:  slurl anyone?
* [13:15] [[User:Goldie Katsu|Goldie Katsu]]:  ahh Off to pooley I guess
* [13:16] [[User:Goldie Katsu|Goldie Katsu]]:  [http://slurl.com/secondlife/Pooley/249/13/49]
*
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'm giving everyone another 2 min.
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  puts forths a shameless plug: Leopard Already [adapted
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  thenI'm starting
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero: down to business in 2!
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: four what ?
* [2007/10/30 13:14] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: lol
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Try moving|Try moving]]:  closer.  Can't sit on object because
* it is not in the same region as you.
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Squirrel Wood|Squirrel Wood]]:  Yay for business!
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Kooky: and that's the problem. Sim straddling is nonsense that comes when you statically map land area to computing resource. Bad infrastructure design.
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Kaity Ferraris|Kaity Ferraris]]:  hello
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:IM: Fizz|IM: Fizz]]:  Okame: still some issues getting in, but if you sit fast, your okay
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Try moving|Try moving]]:  closer.  Can't sit on object because
* it is not in the same region as you.
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit can't enter this region because
* the server is full.
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:--: [BUG|--: [BUG]]:
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:No Freenote|No Freenote]]:  hello everyone
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  stop spouting computer nonsense and let Zero tell us what's up
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  hi everybody
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:--: [BUG|--: [BUG]]:
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  funny, these office hours are a perfect use case for a new grid arch
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: holy catfish
* [2007/10/30 13:15] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  sooner you settle, sooner we get this laggy mess done with
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  sorry, lapsed into parent mode there
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  NOTICE: JenzZa is not lawyer....
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Kaity Ferraris|Kaity Ferraris]]:  no
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: UG !!
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: lol
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero: i hope you're physically in the data centre with a laptop plugged into the sim with an ethernet crossover to cope with this sanely
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  got a new card now needs more memory.
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Yep, we're providing ourselves with a nice use case for region scalability.
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Try moving|Try moving]]:  closer.  Can't sit on object because
* it is not in the same region as you.
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  hey jenz, just sit down fast, and you wont be thrown out of the sim
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: **** heres a surprise *** Unmitigate Gall is a funny guy !
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  actually I'm in the MV location, connected over a DSL line shared with 8 other people who are almost all in SL too!
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  ow
* [2007/10/30 13:16] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  funny enough, my pagefile from SL has actually gone DOWN since I moved to Pooley
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  so my computer isn't going to start on fire
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Acutally, the worst part is the name bubbles all jittering
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  i'm seeing less lag here too :)
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  turn off name bubbles :)
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: I DID IT !
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  CTRL+ALT+F1 Zero my buddeh
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: OMG
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  i went into wireframe before to cope
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  shouts: OKAY
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  err, down to business now?
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: Basil ! may I use your head for a TV screen ?
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  people diminish your graphics draw distance
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - this is a bit more of a turn out than I expected
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Hit us with it Zero :-)
* [2007/10/30 13:17] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  shouts: (last shout out) /me puts forths a shameless plug: Leopard Already [adapted
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  hehe
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Glad you all care
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  I got it this morning
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  STOP SPAMMING
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Incredible Tomorrow|Incredible Tomorrow]]:  Hey saij
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  FFS Dzon
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero: agenda for today?
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Unmasked Shepherd|Unmasked Shepherd]]:  don't be nervous, Zero ::snickers::
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Okay - Everyone - Quiet
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Some ground rules
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  we hate spam, spam BAD.... :(
* [2007/10/30 13:18] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: i turned my draw all the way down ..and now Zero is a stick figurine
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  (I think he just looks like that anyway)
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: ( oh !)
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  1) This is my office hours, and it is public - everything said goes in the transcript on the wiki
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  2) Kill the normal background chatter
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Fizz Okame|Fizz Okame]]:  Zero, you seriously need more food...
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  really - all of it
* [2007/10/30 13:19] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  With this many people, we won't get anywhere if there is the normal chatter
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:IM: gromike|IM: gromike]]:  Borrelly: this is not a metaversed pb i't's a linden lag pb, put some dev on it before someone understand there is a real market
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Hush Zero wants abnormal chatter.
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  It's still a dialogue though, not a monologue
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Whew
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  this "dialogue" might get quite hard to read if everybody starts talking at the same time:((
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Zero's wearing a suit!
* [2007/10/30 13:20] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Yes - Morgaine - I didn't say don't talk, I said don't chatter
* [2007/10/30 13:21] [[User:--: [BUG|--: [BUG]]:
* [2007/10/30 13:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - I do have a bit of a monologue to start so - well, listen' up
* [2007/10/30 13:21] [[User:IM: Unmitigated|IM: Unmitigated]]:  Gall: mmmmmm.. getting charcoal going.... ribeyes for supper....
* [2007/10/30 13:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now, there have been some really good questions raised about the scope and extent of the AWG,
* [2007/10/30 13:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  And about how it is going to go about its business
* [2007/10/30 13:22] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  starting or not ??????<
* [2007/10/30 13:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  And some outside events have caused even more stir
* [2007/10/30 13:22] [[User:IM: Mo|IM: Mo]]:  Hax throws popcorn and turns back around
* [2007/10/30 13:22] [[User:IM: Mo|IM: Mo]]:  Hax: ;)
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Lastly, there has been some amount of, er, animosity in the wiki editing
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:IM: Mo|IM: Mo]]:  Hax: i'm much better now
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - my goal here is to clear some of this up
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:IM: Mo|IM: Mo]]:  Hax: congrats on success of rendezvous, heard about on metaversed
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  First off - I take a fair bit of blame
* [2007/10/30 13:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  The timing of the first AWG meeting was really bad for me
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:--: [BUG|--: [BUG]]:
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:X-F: All|X-F: All]]:  Go
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  oh goody
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: argh
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  right after I gave 4 public appearances - two of them big talks out of town
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-= push it
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  kill the particles
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  A griefer?
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  just ignore them.. they go away
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  shouts: turn the DS off
* [2007/10/30 13:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  contol-alt-shift-minus
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  That was pretty stupid, whoever it was
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which doesn't work in my viewer ... dang
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  anyhow
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Incredible Tomorrow|Incredible Tomorrow]]:  wtf?
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: mine either
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: LOL
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Jessica Qin|Jessica Qin]]:  ctrl-alt-shift-=
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Rob Adelaide|Rob Adelaide]]:  try ctrl+alt+shift+= zero
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - I've been a bit absent
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  in anyevent
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: go into PREFS
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  worked
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User:No Freenote|No Freenote]]:  it's obviously a public service announcement.
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: and put paritcal count on ZERO
* [2007/10/30 13:25] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: tadah
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Tracey Sassoon|Tracey Sassoon]]:  lindsey please
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:--: [BUG|--: [BUG]]:
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User: JenzZa| JenzZa]]:  Misfit: not in kansas anymore <--- repeat
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  stop IMing me with who it is -
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Unmitigated Gall|Unmitigated Gall]]:  wow.. good call Jenzza... even if you have never passed the bar
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  turn off your particles
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  Hi all sorry I'm late
* [2007/10/30 13:26] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'll deal with them later
* [2007/10/30 13:27] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  Zero - can we be told what subjects have been the target of this animosity on the wiki?
* [2007/10/30 13:27] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but really - if it is you - kill the damn particles
* [13:23] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  sorry I'm late
* [13:34] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and now have a place to publically send everyone who wants to be involved with that
* [13:34] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and now have a place to publically send everyone who wants to be involved with that
* [13:35] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Which is here: [http://vwinterop.wikidot.com/start]
* [13:35] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Which is here: [http://vwinterop.wikidot.com/start]
Line 497: Line 85:
* [13:37] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: This is exciting...thanks Zero
* [13:37] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: This is exciting...thanks Zero
* [13:38] [[User:Bob Bunderfeld|Bob Bunderfeld]]:  The Press Release, read at IBM, speaks quite differently about what they are doing, then what was posted on the Linden Blog. This is what have people wondering what, if anything, IBM is doing to help Linden lab with Second Life.
* [13:38] [[User:Bob Bunderfeld|Bob Bunderfeld]]:  The Press Release, read at IBM, speaks quite differently about what they are doing, then what was posted on the Linden Blog. This is what have people wondering what, if anything, IBM is doing to help Linden lab with Second Life.
* [13:38] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Gareth: that's at least the hope :-)
* [13:38] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but with some probability
* [13:39] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: Google is not going to set up a competitor with SL
* [13:39] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: Google is not going to set up a competitor with SL
* [13:39] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: they will make it possible for avatars to enter the maps
* [13:39] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: they will make it possible for avatars to enter the maps
Line 508: Line 98:
* [13:40] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  is this a question period or what ? can't we just listen ?
* [13:40] [[User:Zigomar Abruzzo|Zigomar Abruzzo]]:  is this a question period or what ? can't we just listen ?
* [13:40] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - There is that industry group forming - it has no clear goals yet - they are still forming them
* [13:40] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - There is that industry group forming - it has no clear goals yet - they are still forming them
* [13:40] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  questions should be sent to a organizer to "organize a proper setting".
* [13:40] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  If you want to be part of that - go to that wiki and get involved
* [13:40] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  If you want to be part of that - go to that wiki and get involved
* [13:41] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  GAH
* [13:41] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  GAH
* [13:41] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  I'll go
* [13:41] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  I'll go
* [13:41] [[User:Dale Innis|Dale Innis]]:  ooo a house!
* [13:41] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  Continue Zero
* [13:41] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  Continue Zero
* [13:41] [[User:Malburns Writer|Malburns Writer]]:  Now what?
* [13:41] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  It's that griefer LindsayWorth Voom again.
* [13:41] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  It's that griefer LindsayWorth Voom again.
* [13:41] [[User:Dale Innis|Dale Innis]]:  ooo a house!
* [13:41] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  fie
* [13:41] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  fie
* [13:41] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  Can someone ban her, finally?
* [13:41] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  Can someone ban her, finally?
Line 527: Line 119:
* [13:44] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which is: Take SL and make it work with 60 million regions.... most run by non LL entities
* [13:44] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which is: Take SL and make it work with 60 million regions.... most run by non LL entities
* [13:44] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  On the other hand - it is a much more concrete objective than say other groups may be contempalating at this time
* [13:44] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  On the other hand - it is a much more concrete objective than say other groups may be contempalating at this time
* [13:45] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  Is this contemplating online? :)
* [13:45] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - here's the way to think about this
* [13:45] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - here's the way to think about this
* [13:46] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I want the AWG to help LL get the current protocol set of SL into a form that can be opened up and interoperate with efforts like OpenSim and LibSL
* [13:46] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I want the AWG to help LL get the current protocol set of SL into a form that can be opened up and interoperate with efforts like OpenSim and LibSL
Line 534: Line 127:
* [13:47] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  there are numerous ways to open up the current grid to opensim servers for example
* [13:47] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  there are numerous ways to open up the current grid to opensim servers for example
* [13:48] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Well - these terms interoperability and scalability are really way too wide to be useul and I've come to see
* [13:48] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Well - these terms interoperability and scalability are really way too wide to be useul and I've come to see
* [13:48] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  ok, guess I missed that meeting, seeing it right now.. will try the next one then :)
* [13:48] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  thx
* [13:48] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  that they are a source of much of the problems
* [13:48] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  that they are a source of much of the problems
* [13:48] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Gareth: because if interop people don't design for scalability, it won't be scalable, and vice versa.
* [13:48] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Gareth: because if interop people don't design for scalability, it won't be scalable, and vice versa.
Line 553: Line 148:
* [13:50] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  if one can have essentially infinite regions but a finite number of clients per region then would that be the goals of the AWG satisfied?
* [13:50] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  if one can have essentially infinite regions but a finite number of clients per region then would that be the goals of the AWG satisfied?
* [13:50] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  What it means with respect to AWG is
* [13:50] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  What it means with respect to AWG is
* [13:51] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  how many agents per sim really depend on server performance by bandwidth
* [13:51] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture_Working_Group] is the wiki
* [13:51] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  The grid itself must scale to the number of agents, regions and on-line that I've outlined
* [13:51] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  The grid itself must scale to the number of agents, regions and on-line that I've outlined
* [13:52] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  that is an easy task
* [13:52] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  that is an easy task
Line 561: Line 158:
* [13:52] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - there is one other aspect that relates to both interoperability and scaling that is where I think people are getting hung up
* [13:52] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Now - there is one other aspect that relates to both interoperability and scaling that is where I think people are getting hung up
* [13:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  We want to be sure that the protocols are supportive of both alternative implementations and future extension
* [13:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  We want to be sure that the protocols are supportive of both alternative implementations and future extension
* [13:53] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  Each sim is powered by a single PC CPU core, either an Intel P4 or an AMD Opteron (more AMD 64-bit CPUs), running Debian Linux, though there may be multiple CPUs, cores, and sims per machine (1100 servers, ~2000 CPUs -2/22/06). There are no more than 4 sims per machine (2 dual-core CPUs per box).
* [13:53] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  so the protocol need not make a specific region size mandatory
* [13:53] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  so the protocol need not make a specific region size mandatory
* [13:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  But that will have to be within reason - where reason is defined as we are going to implement this in the next year
* [13:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  But that will have to be within reason - where reason is defined as we are going to implement this in the next year
* [13:53] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Scalability of regions has nothing to do with hardware, it's a design issue.
* [13:53] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Scalability of regions has nothing to do with hardware, it's a design issue.
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So
* [13:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I think the protocol should make as few assumptions as possible in general
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  To attack the hard nut
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  To attack the hard nut
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I don't think that the protocols we are likely to develop in the next six months will support, say 20k agents in a single region
* [13:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I don't think that the protocols we are likely to develop in the next six months will support, say 20k agents in a single region
* [13:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  in a certain scope of course
* [13:55] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  ok, so each region can be a simulator or group of simulators of arbitary size and the protocol does not care how many users that simulator supports
* [13:55] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  ok, so each region can be a simulator or group of simulators of arbitary size and the protocol does not care how many users that simulator supports
* [13:55] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  That is because supporting that requires a major new structure of protocol and I'm pretty sure we don't know what that is at this point
* [13:55] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  That is because supporting that requires a major new structure of protocol and I'm pretty sure we don't know what that is at this point
Line 580: Line 180:
* [13:57] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Lastly - while I did put in backend details in the slides for teh AWG - it got us too bogged down in them
* [13:57] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Lastly - while I did put in backend details in the slides for teh AWG - it got us too bogged down in them
* [13:57] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  You can't put a scalable access mechanism like REST services onto the front of a non-scalable back end and call the whole thing scalable. It's only as scalable as the least scalable link in the chain.
* [13:57] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  You can't put a scalable access mechanism like REST services onto the front of a non-scalable back end and call the whole thing scalable. It's only as scalable as the least scalable link in the chain.
* [13:58] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  Zero: will we see some leadership to eject people who don't agree with this vision of the AWG?
* [13:58] [[User:Gigs Taggart|Gigs Taggart]]:  People that persistantly sidetrack the AWG
* [13:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Each group contemplating a back end should look out for their impelemtnation stragtegy
* [13:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Each group contemplating a back end should look out for their impelemtnation stragtegy
* [13:59] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  wounders why people are brining up google and IBM when this is reguarding to AWG?!?!?!?!?
* [13:59] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  wounders why people are brining up google and IBM when this is reguarding to AWG?!?!?!?!?
Line 593: Line 191:
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  as for AWG moving forward
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  as for AWG moving forward
* [14:01] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  perhaps i'll just idle actually..
* [14:01] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  perhaps i'll just idle actually..
* [14:01] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  Im going to try to post the transcript today
* [14:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Not just works, but works and scales. That's the expressed motivation for the AWG after all.
* [14:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Not just works, but works and scales. That's the expressed motivation for the AWG after all.
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  While I think that it is good that people are thinking very forward about things like alternate ideas of geometry and
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  While I think that it is good that people are thinking very forward about things like alternate ideas of geometry and
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  interesting constructions of assets
* [14:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  interesting constructions of assets
* [14:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  we aren't really here to wholesale resdesign SL
* [14:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  we aren't really here to wholesale resdesign SL
* [14:02] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  Have overall social goals been defined for a multiple grip world?
* [14:02] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  grid*
* [14:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - I'm going to ask that those conversations be placed in a different space
* [14:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - I'm going to ask that those conversations be placed in a different space
* [14:02] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Don't fall prey to Second System effect. :)
* [14:02] [[User:Seg Baphomet|Seg Baphomet]]:  Don't fall prey to Second System effect. :)
* [14:02] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  my point usually only was not to change evrything but to maybe enable different types of structures by inserting placeholder/version numbers if possible
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but that those people, having those discussions keep abreast of the actual designs in the AWG
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but that those people, having those discussions keep abreast of the actual designs in the AWG
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and chime in when you think we are closing a door that won't be re-openable in the future
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and chime in when you think we are closing a door that won't be re-openable in the future
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  when someone is actually ready to implement those forward ideas
* [14:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  when someone is actually ready to implement those forward ideas
* [14:03] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  Zero, is there a shared requirements document for the AWG?
* [14:03] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  who will take ownership of that Zero?
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Ownership of "that"? which that
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Ownership of "that"? which that
* [14:04] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  heh
* [14:04] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  heh
* [14:04] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  I think that is a very good distinction. We aren't redesigning SL, but trying to get the current SL to the interop and scale goals that zero identified
* [14:04] [[User:Nite Zelmanov|Nite Zelmanov]]:  I think that is a very good distinction. We aren't redesigning SL, but trying to get the current SL to the interop and scale goals that zero identified
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'm going to take ownership of triaging what is in and what is out of scope of the AWG
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I'm going to take ownership of triaging what is in and what is out of scope of the AWG
* [14:04] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  that is, how does one expect 1000 people to manage themselves in an organized fashion?
* [14:04] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  eek
* [14:04] [[User:JenzZa Misfit|JenzZa Misfit]]:  eek
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which I realize looks like a unilateral decision by, well, me
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  which I realize looks like a unilateral decision by, well, me
* [14:04] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  Like any other standards body.
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but - er - it is
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  but - er - it is
* [14:04] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  has always suggest ed that AW Groupies pages be seen as discussion pages, while the AWG space be reserved for the "official" stuff
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  :-)
* [14:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  :-)
* [14:04] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  isn't the protocol going to be open?
* [14:04] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  isn't the protocol going to be open?
* [14:05] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  I think that is positive Zero. Do you want to appoint some assistants officially?
* [14:05] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  and assign specific management tasks?
* [14:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Open doesn't mean that everyone can add anything they want to it at any moment
* [14:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Open doesn't mean that everyone can add anything they want to it at any moment
* [14:05] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  the protocol is going to be open, just not designed by absolute consensu
* [14:05] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Zero, in terms of allowing alternative implementations, at the protocol level. how do you avoid people who want to host alternatiev content from lfowing it over the prottocols?
* [14:05] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]:  Zero, in terms of allowing alternative implementations, at the protocol level. how do you avoid people who want to host alternatiev content from lfowing it over the prottocols?
* [14:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  I wonder which project is build on absolute consensus anyway ;-)
* [14:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Right - at this stage - our goal is to get to interoperable implementations of the SL grid
* [14:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Right - at this stage - our goal is to get to interoperable implementations of the SL grid
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - open, I want and need your input and your hard work - but we need to be able to limit scope
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So - open, I want and need your input and your hard work - but we need to be able to limit scope
* [14:06] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  Zero, you may need to put together a shared requirements document first, so everyone has a shared view of scoipe and goals.
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  limit scope to actually getting stuff done
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  limit scope to actually getting stuff done
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  in the near term
* [14:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  in the near term
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  So
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  with that
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  with that
* [14:07] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  most in the AW Groupies agree that the prototols should be designed for extensibility, if I read our views right
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I will be doing some pretty serious wiki editing in the next week
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I will be doing some pretty serious wiki editing in the next week
* [14:07] [[User:Wolt Amat|Wolt Amat]]:  You may want to limit scope of the effort of implementation, but not the scope of goal definition.
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  :)
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  :)
* [14:07] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  yay :)
* [14:07] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  as will I
* [14:07] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  double yay! :)
* [14:07] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  me three
* [14:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  If there are non-negociable, non-community elements, they should go on a non-wiki page. Locking pages on a wiki sets a very bad precedent for a community project.
* [14:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  If there are non-negociable, non-community elements, they should go on a non-wiki page. Locking pages on a wiki sets a very bad precedent for a community project.
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  awsome :) ty rob and zero
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  awsome :) ty rob and zero
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  ty liana
* [14:07] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  ty liana
* [14:07] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  triple yay ;-)
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I will be moving stuff that I think is out of scope or better elsewhere to elsewhere
* [14:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I will be moving stuff that I think is out of scope or better elsewhere to elsewhere
* [14:08] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  excellent!
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  That all said then -
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  That all said then -
* [14:08] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  Morgaine: the wiki is a tool
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  we are rather over time
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  we are rather over time
* [14:08] [[User:Finrod Meriman|Finrod Meriman]]:  do you plan to continue to monitor & revise wiki content
* [14:08] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  agrees
* [14:08] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  agrees
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and I'm late for another public appearance
* [14:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  and I'm late for another public appearance
Line 647: Line 241:
* [14:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Rob: a community tool, and a very good one
* [14:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Rob: a community tool, and a very good one
* [14:08] [[User:Burhop Piccard|Burhop Piccard]]:  So.... what about adapting what is there to the more clear goals that you have provided today?
* [14:08] [[User:Burhop Piccard|Burhop Piccard]]:  So.... what about adapting what is there to the more clear goals that you have provided today?
* [14:08] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  you have too many public appearances ;-)
* [14:08] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  it's nice to see a more focused set of goals Zero
* [14:08] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  it's nice to see a more focused set of goals Zero
* [14:09] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  Seeya all gona head out need to get some lunch
* [14:08] [[User:Vicero Lambert|Vicero Lambert]]:  Seeya all gona head out need to get some lunch
* [14:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Tao - I do
* [14:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  Tao - I do
* [14:09] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  send Philip ;-)
* [14:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I put a moratorium on them for all of Dec. and Jan.!
* [14:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  I put a moratorium on them for all of Dec. and Jan.!
* [14:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Hehe
* [14:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Hehe
* [14:09] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  if someone could pass me the conversation between 13:09 and 13:26 here at pooley I would greatly appreciate it
* [14:09] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  but I guess he has, too ;-)
* [14:10] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  I was unable to teleport
* [14:09] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  Burhop: yes, that's the plan
* [14:10] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]:  will talk again about the SLGA next weekend at the barcamp in Berlin
* [14:10] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  okay then - later all
* [14:10] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]:  okay then - later all
* [14:10] [[User:Burhop Piccard|Burhop Piccard]]:  Rob - no, I read I was going to be "triaged" :-(
* [14:10] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  bye zero
* [14:10] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Tree: I'm sorry that the region implementation is non-scalable
* [14:10] [[User:Jason Swain|Jason Swain]]:  shouts: See you Zero, Thanks
* [14:10] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  Tks Zero
* [14:10] [[User:Mae Whitfield|Mae Whitfield]]:  Thanks Zero!
* [14:10] [[User:Frans Charming|Frans Charming]]:  waves zero goodbye
* [14:10] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  thanks Zero!
* [14:10] [[User:Dnali Anabuki|Dnali Anabuki]]:  shouts: thks Zero
* [14:11] [[User:Mo Hax|Mo Hax]]:  keep up the great work zero and gang
* [14:11] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  shouts: laters Zero
* [14:11] [[User:Sean Linden|Sean Linden]]:  chat is used because it's more easily logged
* [14:11] [[User:Basil Wijaya|Basil Wijaya]]:  Things are moving fast
* [14:11] [[User:Sean Linden|Sean Linden]]:  hard to post audio on a wiki
* [14:11] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  hey Sean
* [14:11] [[User:Harleen Gretzky|Harleen Gretzky]]:  bye Zero, Rob, Sean and Liana
* [14:12] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]:  Voice to text..
* [14:12] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  a reminder to all that the inworld discussion group for teh AWG is AW Groupies
* [14:12] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  shouts: a reminder to all that the inworld discussion group for teh AWG is AW Groupies
* [14:12] [[User:Sean Linden|Sean Linden]]:  tao: sure I'll get right on that ;-)
* [14:12] [[User:Tracey Sassoon|Tracey Sassoon]]:  how do we join ?
* [14:12] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  i'll TP out now
* [14:12] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]:  shouts: IM me or Zha Ewry for an invite
* [14:12] [[User:Tracey Sassoon|Tracey Sassoon]]:  thanks
* [14:13] [[User:Gareth Ellison|Gareth Ellison]]:  someone drop an IM in the AW Groupies when transcripts are up
* [14:13] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]:  I can invite you too

Latest revision as of 13:49, 30 October 2007

  • [13:21] Zero Linden: Now - I do have a bit of a monologue to start so - well, listen' up
  • [13:21] Zero Linden: Now, there have been some really good questions raised about the scope and extent of the AWG,
  • [13:22] Zero Linden: And about how it is going to go about its business
  • [13:22] Zero Linden: And some outside events have caused even more stir
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: Lastly, there has been some amount of, er, animosity in the wiki editing
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: So - my goal here is to clear some of this up
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: First off - I take a fair bit of blame
  • [13:23] Zero Linden: The timing of the first AWG meeting was really bad for me
  • [13:24] Rob Adelaide: oh goody
  • [13:24] JenzZa Misfit: argh
  • [13:24] Zero Linden: right after I gave 4 public appearances - two of them big talks out of town
  • [13:24] Nite Zelmanov: CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-= push it
  • [13:24] Zero Linden: kill the particles
  • [13:24] Morgaine Dinova: A griefer?
  • [13:24] Unmitigated Gall: just ignore them.. they go away
  • [13:24] Rex Cronon: shouts: turn the DS off
  • [13:24] Zero Linden: contol-alt-shift-minus
  • [13:25] Morgaine Dinova: That was pretty stupid, whoever it was
  • [13:25] Zero Linden: which doesn't work in my viewer ... dang
  • [13:25] Zero Linden: anyhow
  • [13:25] JenzZa Misfit: mine either
  • [13:25] JenzZa Misfit: LOL
  • [13:25] Jessica Qin: ctrl-alt-shift-=
  • [13:25] Rob Adelaide: try ctrl+alt+shift+= zero
  • [13:25] Zero Linden: So - I've been a bit absent
  • [13:25] Zero Linden: in anyevent
  • [13:25] JenzZa Misfit: go into PREFS
  • [13:25] No Freenote: it's obviously a public service announcement.
  • [13:25] JenzZa Misfit: and put paritcal count on ZERO
  • [13:25] JenzZa Misfit: tadah
  • [13:26] JenzZa Misfit: not in kansas anymore <--- repeat
  • [13:26] Zero Linden: stop IMing me with who it is -
  • [13:26] Unmitigated Gall: wow.. good call Jenzza... even if you have never passed the bar
  • [13:26] Zero Linden: turn off your particles
  • [13:26] Zero Linden: I'll deal with them later
  • [13:27] Gareth Ellison: Zero - can we be told what subjects have been the target of this animosity on the wiki?
  • [13:27] Zero Linden: but really - if it is you - kill the damn particles
  • [13:27] Zigomar Abruzzo: zero, please shout, i dont get your say !
  • [13:27] Zigomar Abruzzo: shouts: zero, please shout, i dont get your say !
  • [13:27] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: please shout Zero
  • [13:27] Malburns Writer: Yes - ise shout Zero
  • [13:27] Zero Linden: no - I'm not going to air arguments between people that we should just avoid from now own
  • [13:27] Gareth Ellison: ok
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: Can you all hear me now?
  • [13:28] Zigomar Abruzzo: i do
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: good
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: So -
  • [13:28] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: I can
  • [13:28] Malburns Writer: yes
  • [13:28] Rob Adelaide: nods
  • [13:28] Unmitigated Gall: hmm.. if they couldnt hear you they cant answer
  • [13:28] Zero Linden: First - IBM and LL had an announcement - the press release
  • [13:28] Basil Wijaya: ya
  • [13:29] Rob Adelaide: is that release on the blog zero? I missed it
  • [13:29] Gareth Ellison: Rob: it is, and try not to sidetrack Zero
  • [13:30] Bob Bunderfeld: Zero, that release didn't mention anything about IBM helping LL with equipment or technical issues to do with the servers, is there anything forthcoming that would lead us to believe IBM is helping internally to help actually Stabilize the GRID?
  • [13:31] Seg Baphomet: Scripts are off, so they probably can't turn off their own particles. :)
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: the press release was pretty clear abut what it was
  • [13:31] Fizz Okame: zero, is linden concerned about the recent partnership between google and multiverse? why didnt you guys sign up with google, too?
  • [13:31] Gareth Ellison: Zero: to elaborate on what Bob said: is it right to say that IBM are only offering coloboration on protocol design?
  • [13:31] Goldie Katsu: Can we let Zero finish the intro.
  • [13:31] Zero Linden: Really
  • [13:32] Bob Bunderfeld: So, you are saying IBM and LL are only partnering to make a global way to for Avatars to go between worlds, and not actually helping LL with the tech issues plaguing Second Life now?
  • [13:32] Zero Linden: IBM is 1) working on some specific projects with LL 1-on-1
  • [13:32] Zero Linden: 2) trying to engage a larger, industry wide effort
  • [13:33] Fizz Okame: please turn off the darn pot leaves, already? will ya...... geez...\
  • [13:33] Dnali Anabuki: Client/Render/Particle...leaves all gone..
  • [13:33] Fizz Okame: ty
  • [13:33] Zero Linden: the first doesn't really directly releat to the AWG or other efforts - we are just involved in some mutual development
  • [13:34] Zero Linden: The second is a process that was started by IBM at the Virtual World conference in San Jose last month
  • [13:34] Zero Linden: I've met wtih them today
  • [13:34] Entering god: mode, level 200
  • [13:34] Morgaine Dinova: 3) IBM is directly present in AWG through Zha.
  • [13:34] Zero Linden: and now have a place to publically send everyone who wants to be involved with that
  • [13:35] Zero Linden: Which is here: [1]
  • [13:35] Bob Bunderfeld: So, can you say, since a lot of the people on the Blog Comments think the release meant IBM was coming to the Technical Aid of Second Life, if IBM is helping with Second Life or not?
  • [13:36] Zero Linden: The press release makes that pretty clear.
  • [13:36] Zero Linden: If you are asking if there is some underside - swooping in of IBM engineers at the Linden Lab HQs: no, there isn't
  • [13:36] Burhop Piccard: Zero - how do we know where to get involved [2] or in AWG?
  • [13:36] Rob Adelaide: Can you specify what IBM is doing to improve grid operation, if anything, seperate from this interop thing?
  • [13:36] Seg Baphomet: You seem to be defining "Technical Aid" as "Throw more hardware at it"
  • [13:37] Rob Adelaide: to rephrase, are they helping with PERFORMANCE?
  • [13:37] Gareth Ellison: if i could comment on that - the AWG stuff will naturally lead to vastly improved performance
  • [13:37] Fizz Okame: multiverse and google working together are going to put sl out of business if there isnt serious development happening at Linden and IBM. Its a real concern
  • [13:37] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: This is exciting...thanks Zero
  • [13:38] Bob Bunderfeld: The Press Release, read at IBM, speaks quite differently about what they are doing, then what was posted on the Linden Blog. This is what have people wondering what, if anything, IBM is doing to help Linden lab with Second Life.
  • [13:38] Tao Takashi: Gareth: that's at least the hope :-)
  • [13:38] Tao Takashi: but with some probability
  • [13:39] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: Google is not going to set up a competitor with SL
  • [13:39] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: they will make it possible for avatars to enter the maps
  • [13:39] Dnali Anabuki: shouts: not the same thing IMHO
  • [13:39] Gareth Ellison: Dnali: that is going to be a massive competitor to SL
  • [13:39] Morgaine Dinova: Bob: I don't see how either IBM's or LL's press statements could be interpreted to mean that. They're pretty clear. They're about futures.
  • [13:39] Fizz Okame: google buys everything it sees to put places like sl out of business! dont fool yourself! Linden should partner with Google, too
  • [13:39] Zero Linden: Stop - I'm not going to talk about Google or any other external group that is roumored about
  • [13:40] Goldie Katsu: is hoping Zero gets to finish what he wanted to say initially including information on the AWG's role before I have to leave at 2SLT
  • [13:40] Gareth Ellison: yeah, let Zero finish off people
  • [13:40] Zigomar Abruzzo: is this a question period or what ? can't we just listen ?
  • [13:40] Zero Linden: Now - There is that industry group forming - it has no clear goals yet - they are still forming them
  • [13:40] Vicero Lambert: questions should be sent to a organizer to "organize a proper setting".
  • [13:40] Zero Linden: If you want to be part of that - go to that wiki and get involved
  • [13:41] JenzZa Misfit: GAH
  • [13:41] Basil Wijaya: I'll go
  • [13:41] Dale Innis: ooo a house!
  • [13:41] Basil Wijaya: Continue Zero
  • [13:41] Malburns Writer: Now what?
  • [13:41] Tillie Ariantho: It's that griefer LindsayWorth Voom again.
  • [13:41] Zero Linden: fie
  • [13:41] Tillie Ariantho: Can someone ban her, finally?
  • [13:41] Zero Linden: okay
  • [13:42] Zero Linden: Now AWG
  • [13:42] Basil Wijaya: Dont let griefers take your time
  • [13:42] Gareth Ellison: Zero: so, am i correct that the AWG is seperate from this new industry group?
  • [13:42] Zero Linden: My vie of the AWG has not changed - but I realize that it may not have been well communicated in the past
  • [13:42] Zigomar Abruzzo: shouts: stop questionning and listen !
  • [13:42] Zero Linden: So - I'mhere to try to clear it all up and get it on the right footing
  • [13:43] Zero Linden: The AWG is on the one hand a much less ambitious effort - and on the other - the biggest thign that could happen to SL
  • [13:43] Zero Linden: It is less ambitious in that it is tackling only one view of what an Internet wide metaverse
  • [13:44] Zero Linden: which is: Take SL and make it work with 60 million regions.... most run by non LL entities
  • [13:44] Zero Linden: On the other hand - it is a much more concrete objective than say other groups may be contempalating at this time
  • [13:45] Tao Takashi: Is this contemplating online? :)
  • [13:45] Zero Linden: Now - here's the way to think about this
  • [13:46] Zero Linden: I want the AWG to help LL get the current protocol set of SL into a form that can be opened up and interoperate with efforts like OpenSim and LibSL
  • [13:47] Gareth Ellison: Zero: is not interoperability much easier than scalability? why are both being treated as one project?
  • [13:47] Rob Adelaide: As an effort to improve this interoperation, will any of the sim sourcecode be released?
  • [13:47] Zero Linden: Tao - I've pointed you to the wiki of one group - it is as much online as they've said - and having been in the only two other meetings they had - believe me that is what they have right now
  • [13:47] Gareth Ellison: there are numerous ways to open up the current grid to opensim servers for example
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: Well - these terms interoperability and scalability are really way too wide to be useul and I've come to see
  • [13:48] Tao Takashi: ok, guess I missed that meeting, seeing it right now.. will try the next one then :)
  • [13:48] Tao Takashi: thx
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: that they are a source of much of the problems
  • [13:48] Morgaine Dinova: Gareth: because if interop people don't design for scalability, it won't be scalable, and vice versa.
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: Interoprability can mean a zillion things
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: I won't go into the possible meanings
  • [13:48] Zero Linden: instead I will tell you what it means for AWG
  • [13:49] Gareth Ellison: Morgaine: one can open up the current grid to opensim right now while still working constantly on scalability aspects, but let's argue that one later
  • [13:49] Zero Linden: It means making a second life that can have regions run outside of LL, with separate impelemntations
  • [13:49] Zero Linden: and it menas having agent domains that are run outside of LL, with separate implemetnations
  • [13:49] Zero Linden: That's it
  • [13:49] Rob Adelaide: for the less tech-savvy among us what is an agent domain - like an asset server?
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: While other kinds of interoperability may fall out for free -
  • [13:50] Gareth Ellison: Zero: does this mean questions of per-region scalability are moot points?
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: (Rob - read the wiki)
  • [13:50] Gareth Ellison: i.e how many clients per simulator etc
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: Gareth - yes, to a point
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: So - scalability
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: this can also mean way way too man y things
  • [13:50] Gareth Ellison: if one can have essentially infinite regions but a finite number of clients per region then would that be the goals of the AWG satisfied?
  • [13:50] Zero Linden: What it means with respect to AWG is
  • [13:51] Vicero Lambert: how many agents per sim really depend on server performance by bandwidth
  • [13:51] Tao Takashi: [3] is the wiki
  • [13:51] Zero Linden: The grid itself must scale to the number of agents, regions and on-line that I've outlined
  • [13:52] Gareth Ellison: that is an easy task
  • [13:52] Gareth Ellison: if per-region scalability is just an issue of hardware resources then i'd call it trivial
  • [13:52] Saijanai Kuhn: shouts: reading material: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture_Working_Group_Glossary#Agent
  • [13:52] Morgaine Dinova: No, it doesn't mean that, because the protocols that underpin scalable third-party grids have to be able to scale to large regions, even if Linden's regions don't want to support that. We are working on protocols for a supergrid, not just LL's design choices, which are a subset.
  • [13:52] Gareth Ellison: it's just a matter of making each grid component load-balanceable and redundant
  • [13:52] Zero Linden: Now - there is one other aspect that relates to both interoperability and scaling that is where I think people are getting hung up
  • [13:53] Zero Linden: We want to be sure that the protocols are supportive of both alternative implementations and future extension
  • [13:53] Vicero Lambert: Each sim is powered by a single PC CPU core, either an Intel P4 or an AMD Opteron (more AMD 64-bit CPUs), running Debian Linux, though there may be multiple CPUs, cores, and sims per machine (1100 servers, ~2000 CPUs -2/22/06). There are no more than 4 sims per machine (2 dual-core CPUs per box).
  • [13:53] Gareth Ellison: so the protocol need not make a specific region size mandatory
  • [13:53] Zero Linden: But that will have to be within reason - where reason is defined as we are going to implement this in the next year
  • [13:53] Morgaine Dinova: Scalability of regions has nothing to do with hardware, it's a design issue.
  • [13:54] Zero Linden: So
  • [13:54] Tao Takashi: I think the protocol should make as few assumptions as possible in general
  • [13:54] Zero Linden: To attack the hard nut
  • [13:54] Zero Linden: I don't think that the protocols we are likely to develop in the next six months will support, say 20k agents in a single region
  • [13:54] Tao Takashi: in a certain scope of course
  • [13:55] Gareth Ellison: ok, so each region can be a simulator or group of simulators of arbitary size and the protocol does not care how many users that simulator supports
  • [13:55] Zero Linden: That is because supporting that requires a major new structure of protocol and I'm pretty sure we don't know what that is at this point
  • [13:55] Gareth Ellison: then put a nice scalable grid services backend on it and you're ready to rock
  • [13:55] Gareth Ellison: Zero: i'll ask you a question - is DNS scalable?
  • [13:55] Catherine Pfeffer: I read the wiki and did not get a clear view of what an agents domain was.
  • [13:56] Zero Linden: Right now, the protocols for handling agents could, perhaps handle 200 or so.... but beyond that we need some major new concepts of how to handle agents in a close space
  • [13:56] Gareth Ellison: i.e the number of .com domains we can get - is that on the same level as you want for the future of SL?
  • [13:56] Zero Linden: So - AWG isn't going to do that out of the starting gate
  • [13:56] Rhubarb Rabeni: sa
  • [13:57] Vicero Lambert: a dns can have multible zones. for example server1.zone1.lindenlab.com
  • [13:57] Gareth Ellison: Zero: DNS? good analogy in terms of raw numbers?
  • [13:57] Zero Linden: Lastly - while I did put in backend details in the slides for teh AWG - it got us too bogged down in them
  • [13:57] Morgaine Dinova: You can't put a scalable access mechanism like REST services onto the front of a non-scalable back end and call the whole thing scalable. It's only as scalable as the least scalable link in the chain.
  • [13:58] Zero Linden: Each group contemplating a back end should look out for their impelemtnation stragtegy
  • [13:59] Vicero Lambert: wounders why people are brining up google and IBM when this is reguarding to AWG?!?!?!?!?
  • [13:59] Zero Linden: and ensure that the protocol supports what they are planning
  • [13:59] Seg Baphomet: Seems to me, detaching asset download from the sims would be relatively low hanging fruit.
  • [13:59] Zero Linden: We have one backnd implemetnation design and will work to ensure that it works with that
  • [14:00] Vicero Lambert: lol
  • [14:00] Basil Wijaya: maybe mute
  • [14:00] Gareth Ellison: i'm going to have to go offline here - can someone stick the transcripts on the wiki and i'll be pestering you Zero later
  • [14:01] Zero Linden: Okay - now
  • [14:01] Zero Linden: as for AWG moving forward
  • [14:01] Gareth Ellison: perhaps i'll just idle actually..
  • [14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Not just works, but works and scales. That's the expressed motivation for the AWG after all.
  • [14:01] Zero Linden: While I think that it is good that people are thinking very forward about things like alternate ideas of geometry and
  • [14:01] Zero Linden: interesting constructions of assets
  • [14:02] Zero Linden: we aren't really here to wholesale resdesign SL
  • [14:02] Zero Linden: So - I'm going to ask that those conversations be placed in a different space
  • [14:02] Seg Baphomet: Don't fall prey to Second System effect. :)
  • [14:02] Tao Takashi: my point usually only was not to change evrything but to maybe enable different types of structures by inserting placeholder/version numbers if possible
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: but that those people, having those discussions keep abreast of the actual designs in the AWG
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: and chime in when you think we are closing a door that won't be re-openable in the future
  • [14:03] Zero Linden: when someone is actually ready to implement those forward ideas
  • [14:04] Zero Linden: Ownership of "that"? which that
  • [14:04] Basil Wijaya: heh
  • [14:04] Nite Zelmanov: I think that is a very good distinction. We aren't redesigning SL, but trying to get the current SL to the interop and scale goals that zero identified
  • [14:04] Zero Linden: I'm going to take ownership of triaging what is in and what is out of scope of the AWG
  • [14:04] JenzZa Misfit: eek
  • [14:04] Zero Linden: which I realize looks like a unilateral decision by, well, me
  • [14:04] Zero Linden: but - er - it is
  • [14:04] Zero Linden:  :-)
  • [14:04] Rex Cronon: isn't the protocol going to be open?
  • [14:05] Zero Linden: Open doesn't mean that everyone can add anything they want to it at any moment
  • [14:05] Rob Linden: the protocol is going to be open, just not designed by absolute consensu
  • [14:05] Zha Ewry: Zero, in terms of allowing alternative implementations, at the protocol level. how do you avoid people who want to host alternatiev content from lfowing it over the prottocols?
  • [14:05] Tao Takashi: I wonder which project is build on absolute consensus anyway ;-)
  • [14:05] Zero Linden: Right - at this stage - our goal is to get to interoperable implementations of the SL grid
  • [14:06] Zero Linden: So - open, I want and need your input and your hard work - but we need to be able to limit scope
  • [14:06] Zero Linden: limit scope to actually getting stuff done
  • [14:06] Zero Linden: in the near term
  • [14:07] Zero Linden: So
  • [14:07] Zero Linden: with that
  • [14:07] Zero Linden: I will be doing some pretty serious wiki editing in the next week
  • [14:07] Vicero Lambert:  :)
  • [14:07] Tao Takashi: yay :)
  • [14:07] Rob Linden: as will I
  • [14:07] Tao Takashi: double yay! :)
  • [14:07] Liana Linden: me three
  • [14:07] Morgaine Dinova: If there are non-negociable, non-community elements, they should go on a non-wiki page. Locking pages on a wiki sets a very bad precedent for a community project.
  • [14:07] Vicero Lambert: awsome :) ty rob and zero
  • [14:07] Vicero Lambert: ty liana
  • [14:07] Tao Takashi: triple yay ;-)
  • [14:07] Zero Linden: I will be moving stuff that I think is out of scope or better elsewhere to elsewhere
  • [14:08] Zero Linden: That all said then -
  • [14:08] Rob Linden: Morgaine: the wiki is a tool
  • [14:08] Zero Linden: we are rather over time
  • [14:08] Finrod Meriman: do you plan to continue to monitor & revise wiki content
  • [14:08] Vicero Lambert: agrees
  • [14:08] Zero Linden: and I'm late for another public appearance
  • [14:08] Rob Adelaide: the wiki is cool! by everyones, thanks zero, rob
  • [14:08] Gareth Ellison: my plan to go offline failed......
  • [14:08] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: a community tool, and a very good one
  • [14:08] Burhop Piccard: So.... what about adapting what is there to the more clear goals that you have provided today?
  • [14:08] Tao Takashi: you have too many public appearances ;-)
  • [14:08] Gareth Ellison: it's nice to see a more focused set of goals Zero
  • [14:08] Vicero Lambert: Seeya all gona head out need to get some lunch
  • [14:09] Zero Linden: Tao - I do
  • [14:09] Tao Takashi: send Philip ;-)
  • [14:09] Zero Linden: I put a moratorium on them for all of Dec. and Jan.!
  • [14:09] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
  • [14:09] Tao Takashi: but I guess he has, too ;-)
  • [14:09] Rob Linden: Burhop: yes, that's the plan
  • [14:10] Tao Takashi: will talk again about the SLGA next weekend at the barcamp in Berlin
  • [14:10] Zero Linden: okay then - later all