User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 August 07

[8:40] Zha Ewry: Morning, partly Rezed Zero
[8:40] G2 Proto: half a zero?
[8:40] Tao Takashi: I am in the normal viewer
[8:40] Tao Takashi: old version though
[8:40] Tao Takashi: need to upgrade
[8:40] Kopilo Hallard: half a zero O.o
[8:40] G2 Proto: lol
[8:40] Bartholomew Kleiber: hmm
[8:41] Christophe003 Carter: A gray zero.
[8:41] Contagious Republic: hi zero
[8:41] Tao Takashi: 1.19.1
[8:41] Zero Linden: Hmmm.... I don't think even the Surreal numbers can represent half a zero
[8:41] Kopilo Hallard: :O breaks logic
[8:41] G2 Proto: haha
[8:41] Christophe003 Carter: Haha
[8:41] Zero Linden: It can represent half and infinity...
[8:41] Kopilo Hallard: hahahaha
[8:41] Brandon Lindman: hey you can't divide by zero
[8:41] Bartholomew Kleiber: half a Zero is U
[8:41] Zero Linden: Even the square root of infinity
[8:41] Bartholomew Kleiber: bottom part at least
[8:41] Zero Linden: Even the recipricol of infinity....
[8:41] Saijanai Kuhn: OK, who has brought my fps to .1?
[8:41] Kopilo Hallard: so half a zero is unity?
[8:41] Zero Linden: loves Surreal numbers
[8:41] Kopilo Hallard: sai, check your ram, memory leak may have occured
[8:41] Contagious Republic: loves funky math
[8:42] Widget Whiteberry: Zero Linden may be* a surreal number
[8:42] Saijanai Kuhn: 4.5 gigabytes
[8:42] Zero Linden: Uh h, Tao - what did that to your hair?!?!?!
[8:42] Zero Linden: OGP?
[8:42] Christophe003 Carter: lawl
[8:42] Zha Ewry: looks up
[8:42] Joette Bellic: What is this place exactly?
[8:43] Contagious Republic: zero, can a texture have clean edges between a 0% alpha zone and a 100% alpha zone? I've been trying to do it nonstop for 2 weeks and a half now.
[8:43] Tao Takashi: yes, OGP did that to me ;-)
[8:43] Zha Ewry: if (uuid == tao) {rez_overkill_hair() }
[8:43] Christophe003 Carter: no, textures all smoothen, contagious.
[8:43] Tao Takashi: too much trying to understand the SL protocol ;-)
[8:43] Zero Linden: Contagious?
[8:43] Kopilo Hallard: lol
[8:43] Contagious Republic: yes?
[8:43] Zero Linden: Oh! LOL
[8:44] Zha Ewry: if (uuid == Zero) {rez_massive_coffee_mug() }
[8:44] Christophe003 Carter: He didn't know it was your name, of course.
[8:44] Lucias Carnell: haha
[8:44] Zero Linden: I though it was a mis-type of "textures are all smoot, continuous"
[8:44] Waya Sion: is back from afk
[8:44] Zero Linden: Only in SL....
[8:44] Kopilo Hallard: they blur to some degree
[8:44] Zero Linden: Okay all
[8:44] Zero Linden: So I have one agenda item:
[8:44] Zero Linden: 1) OGP document updates
[8:44] Zero Linden: others?
[8:44] Zha Ewry: rHttp plans?
[8:45] Tao Takashi: OGP specification process
[8:45] Zero Linden: 2) rHTTP
[8:45] Christophe003 Carter: Mainland sims being invisible from outside, and unable to look out from?
[8:45] Zero Linden: Tao - can we take that with #1
[8:45] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[8:45] Tao Takashi: and as we in pyogp have sometimes problems understanding the protocol I wanted to propose some bugtracker where these questions can be put in and answered by some competent Linden :)
[8:45] Zero Linden: C003 - you mean in the OGP beta, or here on the main grid?
[8:46] Christophe003 Carter: main grid
[8:46] Tao Takashi: with 1 is ok for me
[8:46] Zero Linden: so if it is a main grid issue, this probably isn't the right venue --- since my office hours are devoted to the future architecture of the rid
[8:47] Zero Linden: *grid
[8:47] Christophe003 Carter: k
[8:47] Zero Linden: 3) bugtracker
[8:47] Zero Linden: okay
[8:47] Zero Linden: #1) The OGP docs
[8:48] Zero Linden: so I wanted to report that Tess, Meadhbh, and I, with some help from Pheonix, have started in earnest in a full pass over the doc set
[8:48] Zero Linden: It will now be four documents (LLSD, OGP Base, OGP Authentication, OGP Teleport)
[8:48] Tao Takashi: greetings to Phoenix from me! :)
[8:49] Saijanai Kuhn: Meadhbh is Infinity?
[8:49] Oliver Szondi: shouts: will there be videos as well?
[8:49] Oliver Szondi: shouts: explaining whats happening
[8:49] Zero Linden: and each doc will document where we (the authors) believe what we (the AWG) have designed/proposed for OGP
[8:49] Saijanai Kuhn: sorry, usually no video at weekly meetings, Oliver
[8:49] Zero Linden: along with explicit notes on where the OGP Beta deviates from that
[8:49] Zero Linden: and how
[8:50] Oliver Szondi: Oh i was thinking of opensim docmentations
[8:50] Oliver Szondi: Sorry
[8:50] Saijanai Kuhn: OPenSIm meetngs are at WRight Plaza on Tuesdays and Saturdays, I believe
[8:50] Zero Linden: It may seem minor to most of you, but I'm really happy that we are making serious progress on the LLSD document -- especially as Phoenix wants to get
[8:50] Tao Takashi: yes, Meadhbh is Infinity
[8:50] Zero Linden: registrations for application/llsd+xml and other MIME types in soon
[8:51] Zero Linden: Ah yes, me bad
[8:51] Zero Linden: Infinity
[8:51] Tao Takashi: cool
[8:51] Zero Linden: One of the things Infinity and I finished on Tuesday is the design of the specification language for LLSD payloads
[8:52] Saijanai Kuhn: via caps you mean?
[8:52] Zero Linden: so that the rest of the specs can stop using that sort of casual syntax I'm always spouting: "{ agent_id: someUUID, favorites: [ url, ...
[8:52] Zero Linden: this stuff
[8:53] Cane Janick: ok
[8:53] Saijanai Kuhn: right, which is just sorta Pythonesque but not quite
[8:53] Kopilo Hallard: [
[8:53] Zero Linden: it is just that when we talk about what LLSD request or response a given resource has -- it has been informal
[8:53] Contagious Republic: lagged out - back.
[8:53] Zero Linden: and there is a need for it to be formal so that a) the spec. is precise
[8:53] Tao Takashi: looking forward to that, great stuff!
[8:53] Tao Takashi: indeed
[8:53] Zero Linden: and b) concise
[8:53] Saijanai Kuhn: and machine parsable?
[8:53] Zero Linden: another benefit is that it is mechanicially verifiable
[8:53] Zero Linden: Yes!
[8:54] Kopilo Hallard: and legiable
[8:54] Contagious Republic: so I was asking zero, is there a way to have non-smoothed alpha on textures?
[8:54] Saijanai Kuhn: LOcklainn will be happy to here this.
[8:54] Zero Linden: We've named it LLIDL, pronounced "little" --
[8:54] Saijanai Kuhn: Contagious this is about future designs of SL, not graphics questions. You'd want to check with Qarl on fridays
[8:54] Zero Linden: and it is a very simple description language -- and indeed we evaluated many others before choosing to build one of our won
[8:54] Zero Linden: our own
[8:55] Contagious Republic: okay
[8:55] Zero Linden: but we were pretty sure none of you would have liked ASN.1.... :-)
[8:55] Zero Linden: (aside to Contagious: All channels of all textures are in essence smoothed: They are Jpeg2000 encoded)
[8:56] Zero Linden: Now, Tao, by process did you mean going to a standards body? or just our process here?
[8:56] Tao Takashi: that sounds all very good, Zero :) When do you expect it to be published?
[8:56] Zero Linden: Two weeks I think
[8:56] Tao Takashi: process here, like how we can participate etc.
[8:56] Contagious Republic: doh, my sculptie-o-matic tool is useless then. 72 prims to a sculptie in world efficiently and quickly - made impossible by that smoothing
[8:56] Contagious Republic: oh well.
[8:56] Tao Takashi: as I noted earlier I would like to do more via some mailing list as I think it's for some stuff more productive
[8:56] Zero Linden: and we will get things out as we are done with them --- I think Authentication will be done sooner
[8:56] Zero Linden: As will teleport...
[8:56] Kopilo Hallard: you can get sharpe edges Contagious, but talk to qual about grahpical questions
[8:57] Zero Linden: Gridnauts?
[8:57] Tao Takashi: for instance
[8:57] Contagious Republic: k
[8:57] Tao Takashi: I think it would fit and maybe those bear emails will also stop at some point ;-)
[8:57] Zero Linden: sure, just perhaps put [spec
[8:57] Zero Linden: perhaps they should have [bear
[8:57] Tao Takashi: maybe they should be on a different list ;-)
[8:57] Cane Janick: lol
[8:57] Oliver Szondi: Hippos?
[8:57] Kopilo Hallard: [cuddly,bear]
[8:57] Oliver Szondi: X)
[8:57] Zero Linden: gridnaut-bear.....
[8:58] Bartholomew Kleiber: bearnaut
[8:58] Kopilo Hallard: xD
[8:58] Oliver Szondi: Hippos-Gridnaut
[8:58] Christophe003 Carter: lol
[8:58] Oliver Szondi: X)
[8:58] Kopilo Hallard: likes Bartholomew's
[8:58] Christophe003 Carter: sticks with bartholomew's
[8:58] Saijanai Kuhn: so will this format be used to describe payloads coming in through EQG?
[8:58] Zero Linden: If there is sufficient traffic on specs, then sure, we'll add another list
[8:58] Whichway Janus: Sorry, I think I started the lastes batch of those. BUt lots of folks are succeeding now.
[8:58] Kopilo Hallard: imagines a bear in a space suit
[8:58] Zero Linden: EQG?
[8:59] Saijanai Kuhn: EventQueueGet
[8:59] Tao Takashi: I sorta like the way how opensocial list works
[8:59] Tao Takashi: but only from having a glance at it
[8:59] Zero Linden: Yes, Sai, we'll be specing what comes through EQG with LLIDL
[8:59] Tao Takashi: it seems pretty effective and I might look a little deeper on how their process is
[8:59] Saijanai Kuhn: kool cause that's a big unkown right now
[9:00] Zero Linden: okay - please do and report back!
[9:00] Zero Linden: We will keep the practice of having each formal draft release as an immutable document so that we can have a solid reference point --- but we (LL) do need to get more frequent updates
[9:01] Saijanai Kuhn: also, you need a category listing for it
[9:01] Tao Takashi: maybe it's also good to have some initial discussions about new stuff before it gets written on the list?
[9:01] Zha Ewry: We really need at least three specs, at the moment
[9:01] Tao Takashi: so we can collect use cases and such for it and everybody has some common understanding what we are working on
[9:01] Zha Ewry: 1) Design as believed to be planned and idea
[9:01] steampunk Jetpack: (murga's build - kopilos script): All Go
[9:01] Zha Ewry: 2) What is currently suppsoed to be implemented
[9:02] Zha Ewry: 3) What is actually deployed
[9:02] Tao Takashi: and maybe this can be represented by some wiki structure
[9:02] Saijanai Kuhn: suggests [1] as well as Qrchitecture Workign group
[9:02] Saijanai Kuhn: Architecture*
[9:02] Zha Ewry: All three sometimes exist in parallel
[9:02] Saijanai Kuhn: so you can find those docs even if you don't know where to look for them
[9:03] Zero Linden: Zha - I wonder how often #1 and #2 will diverge
[9:03] Zha Ewry: Not a critique, btw, just reality
[9:03] Zha Ewry: Not very oftent, btu..t hey do from time to time
[9:03] Zero Linden: and keeping three docs uptodate might kill me... :-)
[9:03] Tao Takashi: right now I remember the redirect to the seed cap
[9:03] Saijanai Kuhn: or even Category:OGP_Documentation
[9:03] Tao Takashi: and the wrong header
[9:03] Zha Ewry: When we're discovring issues, mostly
[9:03] Tao Takashi: this would be between 2 and 3 I guess, I don't really get 1 ;-)
[9:04] Kopilo Hallard: maybe the first three steps of sdlc
[9:04] Zero Linden: well - I'd hoped we could do it all within one document
[9:04] Zero Linden: but that might be unreasonable
[9:04] Zero Linden: let's see how this draft goes....
[9:04] Saijanai Kuhn: could have one text doc and then lots of supporting docs and diagrams
[9:05] Zero Linden: It's the first one where there is a difference between #3 and #1/#2
[9:05] Zha Ewry: I'm mostl looking for us to be careful about knowing where the deltas are.
[9:05] Tao Takashi: maybe the deltas can be some list in jira
[9:05] Zero Linden: We've used an XML Spec element that formats as an inset red text box
[9:05] Zero Linden: the deltas stand out
[9:06] Tao Takashi: what are you using for writing that spec btw?
[9:06] Tao Takashi: just wondering after I sent out that email ;-)
[9:06] Zero Linden: the editor? oXygen
[9:06] Zero Linden: the schema? W3C's XML Spec
[9:06] Tao Takashi: and some custom xml format?
[9:07] Tao Takashi: ah, ok
[9:07] Zero Linden: W3C has XSLT that transforms into HTML and PDF, and I have slightly modified versions of those for this doc set
[9:07] Zero Linden: and I did XSLT that transforms into WikiText
[9:08] Tao Takashi: I wonder if this could be transformed to something like djangobook uses so that it makes adding comments easier
[9:08] Zero Linden: and we have CSS style sheets that can style the source directly for viewing (!)
[9:08] Zero Linden: I'm sure
[9:08] Tao Takashi: I guess theoretically that should be possible if you have that app ;-)
[9:08] Zero Linden: it is a pretty easy schema to transform, which is why I choose it
[9:08] Kopilo Hallard: I like the use of standardised measures
[9:08] Zero Linden: since at some point there is a high likelyhood we'll have to transform it into rfc2xml format
[9:08] G2 Proto: wow cool news Zero on the CSS
[9:08] Zero Linden: er, xml2rfc format
[9:08] Oliver Szondi: wowha!
[9:09] Zero Linden: also - we've put this all in the source tree, so I think at the next drop you'll all have the full suite of supporting files we use to build this
[9:09] Zha Ewry: Nice
[9:09] Kopilo Hallard: sweet
[9:10] Zero Linden: Of course, you can use some other XML editor and tool chain if your prefer -- the Komodo editor is free and works well, for one
[9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: so back to categories... Have at least one that can be used to index all OGP doc related stuff
[9:10] ribanna Magic: helllo
[9:10] Tao Takashi: very good :)
[9:10] Zero Linden: Good idea, Saij.. .please remind me to do so if I forget when we put the next set out
[9:10] Kopilo Hallard: xml is pretty straight foward could even use a cli app :p
[9:10] Zero Linden: okay
[9:11] Tao Takashi: once had some oxygen license
[9:11] Zero Linden: I need to move on....
[9:11] Zero Linden: #2) rHTTP
[9:11] Tao Takashi: ok, I might maybe post some process proposal to gridnauts after looking at opensocial
[9:11] Zero Linden: Sigh....
[9:11] Tao Takashi: and will post other things with [spec
[9:12] Zero Linden: so - we are, after many months, still facing this archtectural road block: How to invoke resources on the viewer at the instigation of the agent domain or region
[9:12] Zero Linden: Original SL solution: UDP messages
[9:12] Zero Linden: 2nd SL solution: The Event Queue
[9:12] Zha Ewry: perks up
[9:12] Zero Linden: Various technologies looked at by this group: AMQP, XMPP, BEEP, SCTP
[9:13] Zero Linden: none of these really made us want to jump on them --- for quite a variety of reasons:
[9:13] Zero Linden: poor library support, heavy-weight standard with much we didn't need,
[9:14] Zero Linden: difficult to work with model, etc....
[9:14] Tao Takashi: reminds me that I still wanted to read up on XMPP :)
[9:14] Tao Takashi: as I think it still will play a role in the future
[9:15] Zero Linden: Then we got very mired in a not-really-relevant debate over issues of the common understanding of the term "comet" and "ajax" --- and we often wrestled with how to talk about keep-alive and it's role
[9:16] Zero Linden: Somewhere along the way, Donovan and I cooked up running HTTP in reverse, and then Donovan enshrined it in the rHTTP proposal with a proof-of-concept implementation in Python
[9:16] Zero Linden: It supposed an event queue like fall back
[9:16] Tao Takashi: I need to post the splitted version of this
[9:16] Tao Takashi: so people can more easily see what's client and server code
[9:16] Zero Linden: though the form of *that* event queue differs from the SL-in-production Event Queue
[9:16] Zha Ewry: Have we tested that proof of concept yet?
[9:17] Zero Linden: And - that's where we are today
[9:17] Tao Takashi: and maybe that people can test it :)
[9:17] Tao Takashi: I will try to do this latest this weekend and inform people on how to use it
[9:17] Zero Linden: "test" as in - does it work and play well with various HTTP infrastructure doodads? Somewhat
[9:17] Zha Ewry: Yes, tha sort of test
[9:18] Lucias Carnell: ok jusr define "reverse"http for me O.o its not something ive ever stumbled across
[9:18] Zha Ewry: It would be really nice to be able tosay to skeptics "Hey, we got 10,000 people to try this in lots of settings, and we ran into the following X managable issues"
[9:18] Tao Takashi: maybe one could build some example chat app on top of it
[9:18] Zero Linden: It uses the same technique as a number of other extensions to HTTP 1.1 --- (including the "upgrade to SSL" extensions that the http framers so want, but nobody uses)
[9:18] Tao Takashi: should be simple enough and would show how this can be put into some lib and where the problems are
[9:19] Tao Takashi: and I also wanted to find out how to use this with the standard lib instead of eventlet
[9:19] Tao Takashi: maybe somebody can also implement some example in C# etc.
[9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: I'm silly I thought rHTTP was already part of the HTTP just that no-one used it
[9:19] Zha Ewry: I may do some simple C# example, while I'm off on the road without my usual bevy of test machines
[9:20] Lucias Carnell: c# or python would be nice to see <3
[9:20] Tao Takashi: cool, Zha
[9:21] Tao Takashi: and you don't take a server park with you on vacation? ;-)
[9:21] Zero Linden: So, at this stage, I'm wondering if we can narrow our options to one of:
[9:22] Zero Linden: 1) require rHTTP, the end
[9:22] Zero Linden: 2) rHTTP with the better EventQueue-Like fallback
[9:22] Zero Linden: 3) just do the EventQueue-Like thing, and not bother with rHTTP
[9:23] Zha Ewry: well, the rHTTP model really lets us think of the whole architecture symettrically, which is awfully nice
[9:23] Zero Linden: *IF* Keep-Alive is implemented in the whole stack, then #3 is just a little chattier than #1
[9:23] Zha Ewry: especially, when we try to allow things like proxy clients, and such
[9:23] Zero Linden: They both let us think of it Symetrically
[9:23] Zha Ewry: they do, but for #3, you have to do it with slighty of hand
[9:23] Zero Linden: and they both require that one side queue requests and wait to be contacted
[9:23] Zero Linden: so that those parts don't change
[9:24] Zha Ewry: Right, but you have to keep sayign to people "The queue, should be thought of as a hack"
[9:24] Zero Linden: How about "The queue should be thought of as transport"
[9:25] Zha Ewry: LOL
[9:25] Zero Linden: Well, HTTP proxy's will have to treate rHTTP as they do SSL - establishing an end-to-end connection (the CONNECT method)
[9:25] Zha Ewry: I'd love.. deeply love to be abel to model the client as offering a set of presentation services, which the rest of the cloud icalls, when the client asks for that
[9:25] Zero Linden: and then simply passing data
[9:26] Zha Ewry: Its about 70% a question of semantics
[9:26] Zero Linden: Zha - That is exactly how the simulator->viewer HTTP messages, passed through the event queue, are modeled to day
[9:26] Zha Ewry: and 30% more real, as if we don't do rHTTP, then software acting *liket* the client, but being abel to be
[9:27] Zha Ewry: in a pure HTTP servinng abiliyt, won't be written that way
[9:27] Zero Linden: in fact, the viewer HAS a full HTTP server in it - it just isn't connected to a TCP socket, instead it is feed by the EventQueue
[9:27] Zha Ewry: right, but we don't code the rest of the cloud as if its there...
[9:27] Zha Ewry: I mean, we do at the design level
[9:27] Zha Ewry: but not at the code level
[9:28] Zha Ewry: I keep suspecting that the more we enshrine that in our next iteratoin, the more it will come back and bite us
[9:29] Tao Takashi: so for 3) would speak that new devs don't have to learn a new concept but use something which is known to them to some extent in the form of comet
[9:29] Zero Linden: Well... actually, in the LL simulator we do: We simply get an end-point object and fire a message/request at it...
[9:29] Tao Takashi: and the question might be if 1) alone works all the time
[9:29] Zero Linden: the underlying end-point logic says (oh, gee, this thing is at the wrong end of a NAT firewalll, okay, sure, I'll just stick it in this queue...)
[9:29] Zha Ewry: nods
[9:29] Tao Takashi: and it not we need to ask people to implement 2 things
[9:30] Zha Ewry: I guess the trick if we end up doing 3 is to spec it properly, so that you *can* do it with a server ont he recieveing end, not a queue
[9:30] Zero Linden: Tao - exactly - there is the rub (same question, really about llsd+xml and/or llsd+json)
[9:30] Tao Takashi: and I personally of course would always go with stuff people know and maybe have implemented already
[9:30] Zha Ewry: I badly want, if I'm actually buildng a "client" which looks like the SL client, but is a server which streams out video, for example
[9:30] Zero Linden: If none can agree, and almost everyone has to do both anyway, why not just pick one
[9:30] Zha Ewry: to build it properly, with a web service
[9:31] Zha Ewry: not a queue
[9:31] Tao Takashi: and I must also admit that rHTTP is sort confusing to me, esp. on how to implement it
[9:31] Cane Janick: I have a coin
[9:32] Tao Takashi: ok, so pick the comet style event queue and json then ;-)
[9:32] Zero Linden: So, rHTTP allows one to use the exact same frameworks as you'd expect (ex.: HTTP Server framework in the viewer and HTTP Client lib in the region)
[9:32] Zero Linden: IF those frameworks and libs have the right hooks to be used by the rHTTP extension --- Donovan showed that in Python they do (though just barely)
[9:32] Tao Takashi: yes, but it took a long time for me to actually understand this code
[9:33] Zero Linden: I don't know if things like libcurl does or if Apache can be made to
[9:33] Tao Takashi: and I still need to think somewhat more to know how to implement it myself
[9:33] Tao Takashi: add to it that I don't have any other endpoint right now where I can test it aganist
[9:33] Zero Linden: On the other hand the EventQueue-Like fallback definitely can be built with all the standard compentry that is out there....
[9:33] Tao Takashi: so I don't know if I am doing the right thing
[9:33] Zha Ewry: mmm.
[9:34] Zero Linden: ....but requires you to build an abstraction layer if you want to hide this odd transport from your application
[9:34] Tao Takashi: and event queue stuff shouldn't be too hard, just wait with sending until you have somethng to send
[9:34] Zha Ewry: Iguess, one thing to ask, in the near term, possibly beyond, is how badly do we want to make it behave well for things which aren'tt hecurrent client?
[9:35] Tao Takashi: what do you mean, Zha?
[9:35] Bartholomew Kleiber: to have an abstraction layer gives the chance to change the decision we make now at a later time ...
[9:35] Zero Linden: The last though I have on this is: One *could* build a rHTTP adapter as either a separate process or at least an independent component - and have it ACTUALLY SPEAK HTTP over a localhost TCP socket
[9:35] Zero Linden: to the unmodified frameworks and libraries
[9:35] Zha Ewry: The whole queyue and such, is 90% about the fact that the client lives in so many places behind so much NAT and Firewall gear
[9:35] Zha Ewry: (as is expect in a very client centric bit of code)
[9:36] Zha Ewry: but.. there are lots of things we might put at the edge of a sim, which aren't like that at all, bnut will look like a "presentation endpoint" at the protocol level
[9:37] Zero Linden: well all
[9:37] Zero Linden: alas, I want to go
[9:37] Zero Linden: but I think this last few minutes of discussion has lead to a very good framing of the issue
[9:37] Zero Linden: and perhaps after a few days of mulling we'll have a concensus viewpoint...
[9:37] Tao Takashi: btw, do we do voting on decisions? ;-)
[9:38] Tao Takashi: might be a process question
[9:38] Zero Linden: i *need to go --- not want.... I'd actually much rather stay here than go off to look at business projection slides.... :-)
[9:38] Tao Takashi: I know the opensocial people do
[9:38] Kopilo Hallard: given the amount of firewalls both physical and software... hmmm
[9:38] Cadis Blackadder: LOL
[9:38] Rex Cronon: bye zero
[9:38] Tao Takashi: thanks for the meeting, Zero! :)
[9:38] Zero Linden: Not sure, Tao, honestly!
[9:38] Tao Takashi: quite productive
[9:38] Cane Janick: thx
[9:38] Kopilo Hallard: take care Zero
[9:38] Zha Ewry: Thanks Zero, see you in three 1/2 weeks
[9:38] Zero Linden: later
[9:38] Bartholomew Kleiber: bye zero

User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 August 07

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