Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.02.22

List of Speakers

Andrew Linden	Arawn Spitteler	Ardy Lay
Bronson Blackadder	Cummere Mayo	Desdemona Enfield
Draconis Neurocam	Flip Idlemind	Kaluura Boa
Liisa Runo	Melvin Starbrook	Moon Metty
NonSmokerGirl Tulip	Oskar Linden	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon	Siana Gearz	Simon Linden
TankMaster Finesmith	zeusdinne Baroque

Transcript

[12:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group

[12:00] Fancy Linden Greeter: Simon Linden has arrived!

[12:00] Ardy Lay: Does this look like a spaceport?

[12:00] Melvin Starbrook: hihi did you fly here?

[12:01] Melvin Starbrook: i swim someto,es from home to here hihi

[12:01] Melvin Starbrook: its only about 5 sims or 10 lol

[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi Peoples and non-humans

[12:01] Draconis Neurocam: Hello Simon

[12:01] Melvin Starbrook: hi Simon :)

[12:01] Siana Gearz: hello simon.

[12:01] Simon Linden: Andrew should be on his way

[12:01] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: that's a great hat simon! can you spare a copy?

[12:02] Simon Linden: Let me check the perms...

[12:02] Moon Metty: hey Simon :)

[12:02] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: thanks!

[12:02] Siana Gearz: btw who else can't see simon linden's body and legs texture?

[12:02] Simon Linden: Sorry, it's no-copy

[12:02] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: oh well thanks for trying simon :)

[12:02] Moon Metty: i can see Simon's face and hat

[12:02] Draconis Neurocam: i see simon torso down as grey

[12:02] Arawn Spitteler: Isn't that the standard hobo hat?

[12:02] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: simon's torso an dlegs are grey

[12:03] Simon Linden: It was created by Doc Wrangler ... I got it years ago, but you might be able to search for it. It was pretty cheap if I remember

[12:03] Arawn Spitteler: Beyond his hat, I see him as grey

[12:03] Qie Niangao: eyes grey, too, to me

[12:03] Melvin Starbrook: yes Simon.. yure partly grey.

[12:03] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: thanks simon i will search marketplace right now

[12:03] Simon Linden: How's that? I re-baked

[12:03] Melvin Starbrook: we wait you rezz :)

[12:03] Fancy Linden Greeter: Oskar Linden has arrived!

[12:03] Ardy Lay: Better, SImon

[12:03] Qie Niangao: much better

[12:03] Melvin Starbrook: YAY!

[12:03] Melvin Starbrook: yes

[12:03] Melvin Starbrook: ((rezzing now :))

[12:03] Arawn Spitteler: Took a moment, but he now wears a tie

[12:04] Siana Gearz: ah yes almost complete now.

[12:04] Qie Niangao: Hi Oskar

[12:04] Moon Metty: hi Oskar :)

[12:04] Simon Linden: uh, Hi Oskar :)

[12:04] Draconis Neurocam: Hello Oskar

[12:04] Oskar Linden: hi

[12:04] Arawn Spitteler: Is someone working on Mesh?

[12:05] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: thanks simon doc is all over the marketplace, I'll have no trouble tracking it down

[12:05] Arawn Spitteler: There was a download snafu, this weekend

[12:05] Simon Linden: Let's see ... there was a main-channel rollout to the grid this morning. I wasn't monitoring it but didn't hear of any problems

[12:05] Liisa Runo: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Release_Status_Whiteboard

[12:05] zeusdinne Baroque: hellooooowww

[12:06] Arawn Spitteler hopes one of the empty chairs is empty

[12:06] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: shoot called away...brb i hope

[12:06] Moon Metty: i hope this main channel will work a little better on our region

[12:07] zeusdinne Baroque waits for her world to the endless rezzing these later days

[12:07] Moon Metty: we had a lot of freezes on our region after only one week of uptime

[12:07] Simon Linden: I'll see if I can find the release notes ... I'm not sure what these changes were

[12:07] Rex Cronon: hello everybody

[12:07] Liisa Runo: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11

[12:08] Simon Linden: Thanks Liisa

[12:08] Simon Linden: ah, right ... this had some bug fixes from Andrew's work

[12:08] Oskar Linden: is it melvin who is bubbling?

[12:08] Draconis Neurocam: what were the unnecessary server logs?

[12:08] Melvin Starbrook: think so..

[12:09] Simon Linden: I don't know the details, but our server logs are pretty big

[12:09] Melvin Starbrook: i take of the bubbles lol

[12:09] zeusdinne Baroque smiles

[12:09] Oskar Linden: it was probably server log events from the leftover 2006 winterfest prims on the teen grid

[12:09] Ardy Lay: I think those bubble put me to sleep last week.

[12:09] Simon Linden: Often while working on something a developer will add something to help their work, and maybe forget to remove it, or over time we realize a message isn't useful

[12:09] Oskar Linden: whew. thanks melvin :-)

[12:09] Simon Linden: So we reguarly find stuff and clean it up

[12:10] Melvin Starbrook: seeing lots of things coming?

[12:10] Draconis Neurocam: was any of it spam from viewers do you think?

[12:10] Simon Linden: There was one I found recently that occurred every region crossing ... it told if the compression feature was on or off. That information is available elsewhere, so we removed it

[12:10] Draconis Neurocam: ah

[12:10] Simon Linden: It's just housekeeping

[12:11] Draconis Neurocam: alright

[12:11] Simon Linden: The logging can effect performance if it's too wordy too, so we want to keep an eye on it

[12:11] Oskar Linden: we could make a log event for when log events get too wordy

[12:12] Simon Linden: haha, that would be ... interesting

[12:12] Arawn Spitteler: Wouldn't that be a WEB Issue?

[12:12] Fancy Linden Greeter: Andrew Linden has arrived!

[12:12] Ardy Lay: Last log message repeated 12 times.

[12:12] Draconis Neurocam: Hello Andrew

[12:12] Ardy Lay: Last log message repeated 12 times.

[12:12] Draconis Neurocam: Hello Andrew

[12:13] Siana Gearz: hello andrew

[12:13] Andrew Linden: Hey everyone. Sorry I'm late.

[12:13] Moon Metty: hi Andrew :)

[12:13] Simon Linden: Hi Andrew ... I just went over today's rollout

[12:13] Rex Cronon: hi andrew

[12:13] Desdemona Enfield: Hello, Andrew... long time, no see (4 years)

[12:13] zeusdinne Baroque: nice cologne there Andrew...:)

[12:13] Melvin Starbrook: is it me or are there grieevers busy some sims away?

[12:14] Andrew Linden: Did you mention the new attachment bug: SVC-6781 -- that was just promoted to the main channel

[12:14] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6781

[#SVC-6781] Attachment point on linkset or single prim object fails to replicate when copies are made on Second Life RC Magnum server sims

[12:14] Simon Linden: No, that would be good to talk about

[12:14] Flip Idlemind: A bug was promoted or a fix for a bug was promoted?

[12:15] Andrew Linden: Desdemona, it has indeed been a long time.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: The RC channel with the bug was promoted to the main channel.

[12:15] Andrew Linden: I've already got a fix for it. I expect it to get into one of the RC channels tomorrow.

[12:16] Cummere Mayo manages to make it back to her comp. hey everyone... *reads up to see what she missed*

[12:16] Andrew Linden: the reason I was late is because I was answering a flurry of emails, and it feels like Monday

[12:16] Rex Cronon: hey

[12:16] Moon Metty: did you have a holiday yesterday?

[12:16] Flip Idlemind: Monday holidays always seem like a good idea...until Tuesday

[12:17] Oskar Linden: yes

[12:17] Moon Metty: i thought so :)

[12:17] Andrew Linden: My holiday wasn't too bad -- I fixed bugs in the simulator and got libndofdev bulding in VS2010.

[12:17] Andrew Linden: It doesn't get any better than that.

[12:17] Andrew Linden: Well, maybe a little better.

[12:17] Moon Metty: :)

[12:18] Oskar Linden: and I got sore muscles and snow in my pants

[12:18] Simon Linden: I also worked yesterday ... will be taking Friday off instead

[12:18] Flip Idlemind: Any news on the other can't-quite-pin-down-the-problem attachment issues?

[12:18] TankMaster Finesmith: lol oskar

[12:18] Melvin Starbrook: i only have seen it when i changed viewers this weeks

[12:18] zeusdinne Baroque smiles happy the rezzing problems will get fix

[12:19] Cummere Mayo: maestro jsut updated one of the jiras flip. so far it seems like they are still in the seek and find mode

[12:19] Andrew Linden: No news on that yet Flip. Maestro dug through logs on Friday and may have found some clues.

[12:19] Melvin Starbrook: week

[12:19] Andrew Linden: I'm going to be focusing on that attachment problem as soon as I'm done with some merges today.

[12:20] Andrew Linden: I'll probably instrument a simulator with lots of debugging and invite some residents to reproduce it on the beta grid (aditi).

[12:20] Cummere Mayo: please dont forget clothing and other wearables issues

[12:20] TankMaster Finesmith: just give me a holler

[12:20] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: back

[12:20] Andrew Linden: What do you mean by the "wearables" issues Cummere?

[12:21] Simon Linden: I have to leave early folks ... nice to see everyone

[12:21] Simon Linden: Bye for now

[12:21] Rex Cronon: if i may i would like to bring attention to something weird that is going on. if i am offline and somebody sends an IM i get it in my email account, but if i rez in some sims i don't get the im.

[12:21] Arawn Spitteler couldn't reach Beta Grid, this weekend: Is anybody using the Mesh Viewer?

[12:21] Moon Metty: see you later Simon

[12:21] Melvin Starbrook: bye SImon, have a great day :)

[12:21] Black Rose Pirate Ship: floating text

[12:21] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: bye simon

[12:21] Cummere Mayo: SVC-6769 which affects clothing

[12:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6769

[#SVC-6769] Taking off part or all of a clothing/attachment set and then wearing another item often causes the the removed item(s) to reapear

[12:21] Rex Cronon: tc simon

[12:21] Andrew Linden: The textures used for the various clothing layers go through a totally different pipeline than attached objects.

[12:21] Cummere Mayo: many of the same issues as attachments and repos simultaneously

[12:22] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[12:22] Rex Cronon: .

[12:22] Ardy Lay: Any good reason why profiles don't work "right" on Aditi if you use a web-profile viewer? Is it an embedded URL issue?

[12:22] Andrew Linden: Ok I'll keep that in mind. I can add some logging to the wearable texture pipeline too.

[12:22] Andrew Linden: No Ardy, I don't know but I'll try to ask one of the other LL devs to see if he knows what is up there.

[12:23] Oskar Linden: web profiles were not made to work on anything but agni

[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: ^

[12:23] Oskar Linden: the team building the web profiles didn't consider that

[12:23] Oskar Linden: we're working with them

[12:23] Ardy Lay: Thanks. I was changin my profile on Aditi and it didn't work. Then I noticed it damaged my profile on Agni.

[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: your web profile is main grid only

[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: atm

[12:23] Melvin Starbrook: will old profiles stay too?

[12:23] Cummere Mayo: yeah... which is an issue

[12:24] Andrew Linden makes some notes...

[12:24] Kaluura Boa: Question: How to see profiles when webkit fails miserably on start?

[12:24] Cummere Mayo: melven only for a while...

[12:24] Melvin Starbrook: the new profilestakes a lo time to load

[12:24] Kaluura Boa: webkit plugin*

[12:24] TankMaster Finesmith: kal, fix webkit

[12:24] Ardy Lay: Tell them setting Display Names is affected some to.

[12:24] Melvin Starbrook: old profiles just pop up

[12:24] Oskar Linden: old profiles also used simulator resources

[12:24] Cummere Mayo: although theres so many issues with the new web profiles allot of people even within LL are getting fed up with them

[12:24] Oskar Linden: so......

[12:24] Arawn Spitteler: I thiink they take a long time, as urls.

[12:24] Andrew Linden: Ardy, you mean display names are messed up on aditi?

[12:24] Object: Touched.

[12:24] Object: Touched.

[12:24] Oskar Linden: no web profiles

[12:24] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Oskar Linden: because web profiles only go to my.secondlife.com

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Oskar Linden: on any grid

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Ardy Lay: One now has to use the web profile page to set their display name so it's related.

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Melvin Starbrook: i use my own picks to tp to the places i go.. its not handy how its setted up now...

[12:25] Object: Touched.

[12:25] Cummere Mayo: actually display names kinda rely on webprofiles to some extent now

[12:25] Cummere Mayo: so thier kinda broken in beta as well

[12:25] Melvin Starbrook: why change things that work well?

[12:25] Cummere Mayo: (cant change or toggle em)

[12:26] Andrew Linden: ok, I don't know much about the new profile or display names systems. I'll have to ask around.

[12:26] Arawn Spitteler: Profiles are an asset, on Snowglobe

[12:26] Cummere Mayo: and every issue on web profiles ive reported fredrik has closed without investigating it

[12:26] TankMaster Finesmith: you cant set your DN in 2.5/2.6 for aditi anymore

[12:27] Moon Metty: i never noticed the old profiles having an effect on server performance

[12:27] Kaluura Boa: I've Tp'd more than once with profiles minimized... Which server is affected in such a case?

[12:27] Ardy Lay: I only noticed it when a profile scrape bot was in the region.

[12:28] Andrew Linden: The old profiles would be relayed by the simulator to the "dataserver" which was just a front end to the mysql database.

[12:28] Cummere Mayo: also since you cannot set the viewer to only accept ll cookies, if you try and avoid all the spyware like redzone, you cant even use profiles on even the main grid

[12:28] Melvin Starbrook: i dont accept cookies at all lol :)

[12:28] Andrew Linden: Now profiles go throuh an http web services thing, which is completely different so it has different "lag" behavior and effects.

[12:28] Cummere Mayo: neither do i melvin. as a result profiles wont load at all for me

[12:29] Melvin Starbrook: i noticed yes

[12:29] Moon Metty: yes, the new profiles are really slow

[12:29] Moon Metty: they make connections all over the world and download a lot of data

[12:29] Oskar Linden: they're probably slow because they hop through like 10 web services before rendering the html

[12:29] Cummere Mayo: they are slow, too big, badly formatted, and dont load for too many residents for any of litterally over two dozen possible reasons

[12:29] Desdemona Enfield: One cannot use inventory images in profiles. You have to download to you local host system first.

[12:29] Cummere Mayo: which is rediculous oskar

[12:29] Oskar Linden: agreed

[12:29] Desdemona Enfield: (which is not really a problem)

[12:30] Melvin Starbrook: cannot use unventory images?

[12:30] Cummere Mayo: nope

[12:30] Melvin Starbrook: oh strange

[12:30] Cummere Mayo: you have to download to your computer

[12:30] Cummere Mayo: then reupload

[12:30] Desdemona Enfield: Nope, you iz on the we, smiules.

[12:30] Melvin Starbrook: im in sl, not on www :)

[12:30] Gez Linden Bear 1.3: ha ha! I will escape from you Melvin Starbrook!

[12:30] Ardy Lay: Each website does not have to, by itself, be a web.

[12:30] Gez Linden Bear 1.3: Curses... foiled again...

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Cummere Mayo: and the web profiles are so insecure that even hidden ones are STILL being cached by faebook and google

[12:30] Cummere Mayo: *facebook

[12:30] Melvin Starbrook: spyboook

[12:30] Bronson Blackadder: the new profiles are so stupidly set up I dont bother looking at profiles anymore

[12:31] Siana Gearz: i misread "facepalm"

[12:31] Rex Cronon: how much script is in each web profile? do they also use flash?

[12:31] Cummere Mayo: allot of people are reacting to them with the desire to get rid of any webbased profiles at all

[12:31] Ardy Lay: Any new developments on the snapshot to email failures?

[12:31] Andrew Linden looks at a few profiles now to see how they're working.

[12:31] Cummere Mayo: and go back to pre 1.23 versions

[12:32] Desdemona Enfield: Well, caching would be easy to fix.. just have the servers generate disinformation profiles when hidden ones are requests.. Generate trash.

[12:32] Desdemona Enfield: : )

[12:32] Rex Cronon: if each web profile has both flash and JS in it that is leading to lots of lag:(

[12:32] Cummere Mayo: speaking of whcih... any lindens know if posting a link to jira on how to bypass someones profile privacy settings and remotely trigger widgets and stuff is a tos violation?

[12:32] Desdemona Enfield: "as a private citizen, one had a Duty to generate disinfomration." "Friday" / Heinlein.

[12:32] Siana Gearz: rex, no flash i believe and script, there is some, but i don't think it would be an issue.

[12:32] Moon Metty: i think people with slow connections suffer the most

[12:32] Rex Cronon: JS by itself can make webpages laggy

[12:33] Cummere Mayo: cuase someone has done that to be and despite at least 8 AR-s its still there

[12:33] Desdemona Enfield has a 7 mBit connection and finds it very slow to see a profile.

[12:34] Cummere Mayo would really like that removed :-/

[12:34] Desdemona Enfield: She thinks it is actually her slow processor speed running the webkit.

[12:34] zeusdinne Baroque: I have great connection and great computer and the uploading of profiles has been very slow

[12:34] Andrew Linden: how many seconds are people seeing to load a webservice profile?

[12:34] Oskar Linden: 20-30

[12:34] Oskar Linden: for me

[12:34] Desdemona Enfield: 5 to 15

[12:34] Cummere Mayo: 10+ or more

[12:34] Moon Metty: yes, the webkit can cause the viewer to freeze too

[12:34] zeusdinne Baroque: as well as textures very badly in the past week I may say

[12:34] Andrew Linden: I see about 1-2 seconds, but I've got a 100MB line to a T-3.

[12:34] Arawn Spitteler: Seconds or minutes?

[12:34] Melvin Starbrook: yes 15 20 seconds

[12:34] Cummere Mayo: and thats only cause i am on a t-1

[12:34] Oskar Linden: same as anything loading web based in the vwr. search takes half a minute

[12:34] Melvin Starbrook: old profiles 20 ms

[12:35] Draconis Neurocam: its about 6 seconds for me

[12:35] Ardy Lay: Generally just 2-5 seconds but I am in an unusually good position to load them.

[12:35] Cummere Mayo: old proviles were less then 2 seconds most times

[12:35] Rex Cronon: 20 seconds to download a html file that is less than 100kb? lol

[12:35] Bronson Blackadder: 7 - 10 seconds

[12:35] Andrew Linden: I take that back. I'm seeing 4 - 5 seconds.

[12:35] Qie Niangao: For me, the *first* web profile takes like 30sec., but after that, usually under 10

[12:35] Arawn Spitteler: I'm on snowglobe, so it doesn't take a minute

[12:35] zeusdinne Baroque: takes longer than that yesterday some took lots

[12:35] Cummere Mayo: and it usually takes 3 tries for me to get a web profile (after i turn on cookies)

[12:35] Desdemona Enfield: For a while no matter whose profile web I looked at, I would first get mine.. That got fixed.

[12:35] Draconis Neurocam: what i dont understand is how you can now completely remove your profile from being seen at all now, how are you supposed to im a customer if you cant see their profile

[12:36] Ardy Lay: The first viewe requires authentication

[12:36] Oskar Linden: loading andrews profile right now took me 30s

[12:36] Oskar Linden: half loaded at 20s

[12:36] zeusdinne Baroque: I just got land on Brauer and this morning not even teleport cards were rezzing

[12:36] Desdemona Enfield: Perhaps it is an anti data mining measure (smiles).

[12:37] zeusdinne Baroque: this is all happening to me the last week in half approx

[12:37] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks for the info. I'll try to ask around to find out more about the new profiles.

[12:37] Rex Cronon: is it beacuse profiles r not static html files but r dynamically generated by ll server(s)?

[12:37] Andrew Linden: I wonder what the team on that thinks can be done to speed it up if anything.

[12:37] Rex Cronon: because*

[12:37] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: wow that's what i was going to say

[12:37] Cummere Mayo: andrew if they were done right and if there were proper privacy, security, and technical implementation web profiles would be great

[12:38] Kaluura Boa: What about removing the ad? And why does the ad use https, btw?

[12:38] Bronson Blackadder: also the fact to see the entire profile you have to expand the window and block everything on your screen.

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: lol secure ads...

[12:39] Melvin Starbrook: in firestorm theres no add

[12:39] Gez Linden Bear 1.3: ha ha! I will escape from you Melvin Starbrook!

[12:39] Rex Cronon: does the ad really need to be shown in same html page?

[12:39] Gez Linden Bear 1.3: Curses... foiled again...

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: firesotrm doesnt have web profiles...

[12:39] Melvin Starbrook: yes the one one has.. or they are working on it :)

[12:40] Andrew Linden doesn't see and ad on the web profiles page.

[12:40] Melvin Starbrook: (an alpha one)

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: no... we arent going to sue web profiles...

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: use*

[12:40] Rex Cronon: u sue them:)

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: firestorm is based on viewer 2.4, which is before webprofiles anyway

[12:40] Kaluura Boa: The ad is only visible if you open a profile in a web browser

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: anywho, back on topic...

[12:41] Draconis Neurocam: how did the move to vs2010 go, theres not been much news?

[12:41] Andrew Linden: Ok. Profiles open in and SL "floater" UI window for me.

[12:41] Arawn Spitteler: Now that we're the Server Users Group, we talk about Viewers?

[12:41] Siana Gearz: i wonder whether classic profiles will be killed off eventually.

[12:41] Oskar Linden: I don't know of a plan to deprecate the dataserver caps

[12:41] Kaluura Boa: Good to know...

[12:42] Melvin Starbrook: pls dont remove..

[12:42] Andrew Linden: Ardy, no news on the "snapshot to email" failures (was reading back).

[12:42] Oskar Linden: andrew I had something I wanted to bring up when we have a chance

[12:42] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Oskar.

[12:42] Oskar Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6786

[12:42] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-6786] Pushes, bumps and hits no longer registers on any viewer

[12:43] Oskar Linden: it looks like that got broken in a server release or removed and I don't remember it being intentional

[12:43] Oskar Linden: seems to be broken in all vwrs

[12:43] Rex Cronon: lsl still can detect them

[12:43] Oskar Linden: LSL can

[12:43] Rex Cronon: look above my head

[12:43] Oskar Linden: viewers cannot

[12:44] Rex Cronon: why do u think i wear that

[12:44] Cummere Mayo: that explains allot about why combat systems and sports systems are acting wierd

[12:44] Kaluura Boa: It should reduce the number of ARs...

[12:44] Kaluura Boa: :P

[12:44] Andrew Linden: I don't know where that got lost either. I wonder what pipeline that info was being sent through.

[12:44] Siana Gearz: because you're a cool hat

[12:45] Oskar Linden: ok, well I guess we toss that on the plate :-)

[12:45] Cummere Mayo: I would assume if that were intentional that the no pushing would have been removed off parcel and estate settings?

[12:45] Siana Gearz: it's called testing_volume. you test volume collisions with it?

[12:45] Andrew Linden: So... how does one watch the bumps and pushes through the UI? The bug does not say and I don't know that bit of viewer UI.

[12:45] Rex Cronon: actually lsl can't detect pushing:(

[12:45] Oskar Linden: theough the develop menu in vwr 2

[12:45] Cummere Mayo: on v2 its in the develope menu

[12:45] Cummere Mayo: burried

[12:46] Cummere Mayo: rediculously burried

[12:46] Rex Cronon: yes i also test volumedetect with it:)

[12:46] Ardy Lay: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-22248

[12:46] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-22248] Bumps, Hits and Pushes is hard to find, not intuitive.

[12:46] Andrew Linden: Ah I see it. Thanks

[12:46] Ardy Lay: I reported the "hard to find" part ages ago.

[12:46] Oskar Linden: if it's been broken for a while in all vwrs, it doesn't matter how buried it is if this is the first jira for it

[12:46] Cummere Mayo: should be under me or world

[12:47] Cummere Mayo: no it being burried was reported long ago... its jsut recently been not working...

[12:47] zeusdinne Baroque: do you want my chair Oskar?

[12:47] Oskar Linden: why?

[12:47] Andrew Linden: The bug you pointed out was created yesterday Oskar, but you say it has been broken for a while.

[12:47] Oskar Linden: I'm guessing it has andrew, I don't know

[12:47] Andrew Linden: Do you have an approximate timescale for that "while"?

[12:47] Oskar Linden: I do not

[12:47] Andrew Linden: weeks? months? years?

[12:47] Andrew Linden: ok

[12:48] Cummere Mayo: its been broken for at least a week... though....

[12:48] Oskar Linden: it's hard to do these days without pulling and pushing old server version to aditi channels

[12:48] Andrew Linden: ok, I should be able to track that one down.

[12:48] Andrew Linden: (probably my fault 8-0 )

[12:48] Oskar Linden: o.O

[12:49] Cummere Mayo: soemthing that should be noted... I cant tell if its just the recording of them thats broken or all detction... I can still push avis

[12:49] Liisa Runo: the client never was reliable with reporting bumps and pushes. I guess everybody use scripted devices. LSL dont fail

[12:49] Ardy Lay: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-21758

[12:49] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-21758] 'bumps, pushes & hits' list not populating

[12:49] Ardy Lay: THat's been there a while too.

[12:49] Arawn Spitteler: I recall colliding solid objects with my avatar didn't register on bumps, and I was experimenting with the new physics engine, at the time.

[12:50] Rex Cronon: can we at least have lsl be able to tetect pushes?

[12:50] Andrew Linden: ok, so that was created more than a month ago.

[12:51] Arawn Spitteler: What's the Physics Engine, we used to talk about?

[12:51] Ardy Lay: 14/Jan/10 4:59 PM

[12:51] Cummere Mayo: a year ago

[12:51] Arawn Spitteler: Bumps unreported might be as old as Havok 4

[12:51] Andrew Linden: Oh, you're right.

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: To be fair a year ago is more than a month ago

[12:51] Ardy Lay: Hehe

[12:51] Cummere Mayo: and someone assigned it to snowstorm meta at some point *facepalms*

[12:51] Andrew Linden: A year gone. That will make it harder to track down.

[12:52] Andrew Linden: All physics engine development is happening in the mesh project these days Arawn.

[12:53] Cummere Mayo: is this a viewer issue or server issue or both?

[12:53] Flip Idlemind: Speaking of physics, quick question: is it super-necessary for physical objects to freeze when selected? (I know that's not exactly a new issue either)

[12:53] Arawn Spitteler: The Mesh Viewer hasn't been working, lasst weekend. Has that been fixed?

[12:53] Andrew Linden: I don't know Cummere. I suspect it is a server problem. Viewer-1.23 is older than a year right?

[12:53] Cummere Mayo: yes

[12:54] Moon Metty: 1.23.5 hasn't been changed for well over a year

[12:54] Cummere Mayo: well if its server it shouldnt be assigned to storm

[12:54] Cummere Mayo: or be in vwr ><

[12:54] Moon Metty: it's great to use a static piece of software for once :)

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:55] Moon Metty: ,

[12:55] Ardy Lay: Hehe

[12:56] Ardy Lay: Yeah, you get to know it better.

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: **********(`.)************

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: ******(`.)...(`.)*******

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: *(`.*. . ** `.. `.)*

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: * `..I*LoVe*To*PaRtY..*

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: *******(`.) (`.)*********

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: ********`.(`.)..**********

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: ***********`..************

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: sorry

[12:56] Ardy Lay: I hate web interfaces as somebody is always moving the buttons.

[12:56] zeusdinne Baroque: i was trying something

[12:57] Moon Metty: yes, things tend to move around a lot hehe

[12:57] Ardy Lay: I got yelled at for changing one button in Snowglobe ...

[12:57] Ardy Lay: THen look what happened.

[12:57] Moon Metty: lol v2

[12:58] Desdemona Enfield: Well, it sort of makes the web page a shoot-em-up first person combat game.. targeting dynamic buttons.

[12:58] Moon Metty: hehehe

[12:58] Moon Metty: whack-a-mole

[12:58] Desdemona Enfield: yup,smiles.

[12:58] Rex Cronon: can we have the button blow when we finally shoot them;)

[12:58] Desdemona Enfield: That is a viewer crash, rex.

[12:59] Andrew Linden: I have to admit... there are some reasons why the webification of UI is appealing to a developer

[12:59] Rex Cronon: no. if it blows, it is a sign of life;)

[12:59] Andrew Linden: write once and show on multiple platforms for example

[12:59] Desdemona Enfield: v2 is fine when you get used to the migration of buttons.

[13:00] Liisa Runo: v2 is fine some year when the basic stuff start working

[13:00] Moon Metty: who here has tried the chrome browser?

[13:00] NonSmokerGirl Tulip: i have

[13:00] Moon Metty: it feels very fast and smooth

[13:00] Desdemona Enfield: Google makes a SL viewer?

[13:00] Desdemona Enfield: (humor)

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] Andrew Linden: chrome is my default browser on my new Win7 machine... gotta figure out how to remove it from default

[13:01] Arawn Spitteler: Where's Wireframe moved to?

[13:01] Desdemona Enfield: develop->rendering

[13:01] Andrew Linden: chrome is nice and fast, but it doesn't have encryption of passwords

[13:01] Ardy Lay: control shift r

[13:01] Moon Metty: aha

[13:01] Andrew Linden: which is just on the other side of my paranoia level

[13:02] Desdemona Enfield: Doesn't facebook publish passwords to help people who forget? (more humor)

[13:02] Melvin Starbrook: lol

[13:02] Liisa Runo: speaking of... where is the toggle to not display facebook button on my profile?

[13:02] Andrew Linden: Could someone send me the transcripts from the first 15 min of this meeting?

[13:02] Desdemona Enfield disabled 'tell world my passwords' on her Facebook privacy settings)

[13:02] Andrew Linden: via email would be nice

[13:03] Ardy Lay: Andrey, I will

[13:03] Ardy Lay: Andrew

[13:03] Andrew Linden: Thanks Ardy.

[13:03] Arawn Spitteler: Just use the standard passord, "Password."

[13:03] Oskar Linden: when that fails increment to Password1

[13:03] Andrew Linden: #5 item on my todo list is to publish the transcripts I already have.

[13:03] Desdemona Enfield: Desde has been around a while and uses passwd.

[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: password1 is the new, more secure default password

[13:04] Rex Cronon: i think u have enough transcripts to fill a novel:)

[13:04] Oskar Linden: password1 is incrementally more secure than password

[13:04] Andrew Linden: I'm already up to Password35.

[13:04] Oskar Linden: better make that password36 andrew

[13:04] Desdemona Enfield: OMG, you use CAPS? Wow

[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: lol

[13:04] Andrew Linden: D

[13:04] Andrew Linden: D'oh, you're right.

[13:04] Moon Metty: hehehe

[13:04] Desdemona Enfield: : )

[13:04] Oskar Linden: I have to go

[13:04] Rex Cronon: u guys r jocking. nobody in his/hers right mind would use password:)

[13:04] Andrew Linden uses 20 character passwords.

[13:05] Oskar Linden: and now begins the seat reshuffle

[13:05] Oskar Linden: *waves*

[13:05] Moon Metty: thanks for the meeting :)

[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc oskar

[13:05] Melvin Starbrook: thank you Oskar and Andrew :)

[13:05] Andrew Linden: cheers everyone. Thanks for coming.

[13:05] Draconis Neurocam: thanks for your time guys

[13:05] Desdemona Enfield: me too.. abcdefghijklmnopq.

[13:05] TankMaster Finesmith: tc

[13:05] Cummere Mayo: thanks guys

[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc andrew

[13:05] Moon Metty: bye Andrew, good luck

[13:05] Desdemona Enfield: bye andrew

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc everybody

[13:06] Ardy Lay: Andrew, I sent

[13:06] TankMaster Finesmith: andrew

[13:06] TankMaster Finesmith: when do you think youll do testing?

[13:06] Andrew Linden: Thanks Ardy.

[13:06] Ardy Lay: You are welcome

[13:06] Rex Cronon: have fun:)

[13:06] Andrew Linden: Oh, the attachment testing TankMaster?

[13:06] TankMaster Finesmith: ya

[13:06] Melvin Starbrook loooks at the twoleggers jumping of their chairs

[13:06] Melvin Starbrook giggles

[13:07] Andrew Linden: It will take me this afternoon to write the code and get it up on aditi.

[13:07] Ardy Lay: Ooops. Andrew. I got a delivery error.

[13:07] TankMaster Finesmith: ok

[13:07] Andrew Linden: I'll try to send you an IM or something when I get it up.

[13:07] Andrew Linden: I'll try to get it done by end of the day.

[13:07] zeusdinne Baroque: ty

[13:07] Andrew Linden: and will post to the jira too.

[13:07] TankMaster Finesmith: sounds good

[13:07] TankMaster Finesmith: ill be around for the opensource UG at 8

[13:08] Moon Metty: let's go work on your hat, Z