User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 05 01

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	oohh the red glow helps that
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	The flying problem? There's a fix in the pipeline, but I've noticed on my local regions that I'm still getting the sink sometimes
[17:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea
[17:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	I discovered it happens underwater too
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	Really Simon? Hrm.
[17:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	in vehicles
[17:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	they seem to sink
[17:02]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Some bugs are very, very persistent. :p
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	No, I fixed it last week in the "yet to be deployed" codebase
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	but perhaps it is not fixed 100%
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	I'm still seeing it in my local debug builds
[17:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	My bike sinks, my sub sinks, I sink
[17:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	hell, I slide down gently sloping hills
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, do you do anything in particular to repro it?
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Really Kooky?
[17:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	yep
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	I noticed that once in a test region, but was unable to reproduce it.
[17:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	I wasn't able to repro it, but I was standing on a hill at my house
[17:03]	Wolfhaven Teleportation HUD v3.0 is Ready
[17:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	and I started just sliding down it
[17:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	every few seconds it would trigger a fraction of a walk anim
[17:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	then go back to standing and keep moving down
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	No, it's just normal flying. Not touching anything
[17:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	I did it until I hit flat ground.
[17:04]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I just love the bugs that happen *completely* at random. Makes debugging SOOO much fun.
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Ok Simon, I'll try to trigger it again.
[17:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	yes Gaius
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry that Tuesay's office hours were a no-show.
[17:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've just started playing with a submarine....
[17:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	and I keep ending up on the ocean floor
[17:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	I can't stay surfaced to save my life
[17:05]	Kitto Flora:	No show for me too, due to RL
[17:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	unless I'm actively applying "Up" force, it goes down.
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	I was out of the office, and others were busy or forgot.
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	That was my goof; I apologize
[17:05]	Yuu Nakamichi:	hello all
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Hello Yuu.
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	Hi Yuu
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Today I have to leave at 18:00 sharp -- gotta be somewhere by 18:45
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I'll make a few more announcements (if I can think of any) then get to Kooky's submarine.
[17:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	pl
[17:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	Lessee... no update for this week. Do we think we'll get something out next week Simon? I haven't been following the #deploy channel much.
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	We don't have anything locked and loaded that passed QA do we?
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	I think Simon has some experimental stuff he's going to deploy to a few regions to see if he can track down some performance problems that affect some places.
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	I think there's an update scheduled for next week
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	I have some optimization work done recently, but that needs some testing
[17:10]	Kooky Jetaime:	I think someone else mentioned a rolling comming up to fix acouple of exploits in the near future
[17:10]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I could work with estate owners if you are interested Simon
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	Besides the "drifting avatar during hover" which may or may not be fixed, and the "last location gets clamped to 768" I don't have much to report as fixed.
[17:10]	Yuu Nakamichi:	(for affected openspace regions to analyze)
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	I'm currently working on a crash mode that may be a resource leak.
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	I guess that is all for announcements.
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	Kooky, you were talking about some sinking vehicles?
[17:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	Yea..
[17:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	My Bike, which has a hovermode, appears to sink while "idle"
[17:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	as well as a submarine that has that same effect
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	What method do they use to stay afloat? Hover? or vehicle Buoyancy?
[17:12]	Conover's Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
[17:12]	Creem Pye:	and that's with a vehicular buoyancy of 1.0?
[17:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	The bike I'm assuming is a hover
[17:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	The sub I've not digged through the scripts on, but I'm presuming boyancy, since it can't go much higher than water surface
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	And these did not sink in Havok1?
[17:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	The bike I know didn't.. the sub I didn't use then.
[17:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	but I figured it was an interesting coincidence that it just loves to head for the bottom
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	I take it these are not "new to Havok4 but should theoretically not sink according to the script">
[17:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	The sub is a freebie I can rez
[17:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	its from Abbots
[17:14]	Creem Pye:	ah, you could try it in H1 maybe, on the beta grid
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	Well, best thing to do would be to give me some copies, or rez here so I can grab a copy.
[17:14]	Creem Pye:	(abbotts is there too, i believe)
[17:15]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Right, there's still Havok1 regions on the beta grid. (How long are those going to be there?)
[17:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	its no Transfer Kitto..
[17:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	I wish we could get a nice H1 region somewehre on the main grid..
[17:15]	Creem Pye:	mmm actually I know the Mono regions are H1... but none of those have water, unless something changed
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Alas, Havok1 is quickly becoming stale and can no longer talk to the newer SL clients.
[17:16]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Sandbox Cordova and the G one (never remember that name) have pools of water last time I checked (on the beta grid only)
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Goguen
[17:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	Cordova you said.. I'll try it right now
[17:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	Logging into Aditi now
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, anybody else have a topic to talk about?
[17:17]	Chaz Longstaff:	i have one but am willing to wait my turn
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	raise it Chaz.
[17:17]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I think it's your turn. :)
[17:17]	Chaz Longstaff:	kk
[17:17]	Chaz Longstaff:	my elevators are dead ducks :}
[17:18]	Chaz Longstaff:	llmovetotarget not enough steam to get all the way to the destination floor anymore
[17:18]	Chaz Longstaff:	was wondering if i could leave a copy with you to look at
[17:18]	Gaius Goodliffe:	It seems to be similar the problem my old elevators had, but mine were fixed. However, mind apparently use a much thinner platform.
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Sure, could you elaborate on that though?
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	They try to get there but fail? They do move a little bit though?
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	By how much do they miss their mark?
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Are they sliding in an elevator shaft? Or are they on sky hooks?
[17:19]	Gaius Goodliffe:	SVC-1202 I think has a description...
[17:19]	Chaz Longstaff:	they are in a shaft, in buildings for the most part
[17:20]	Gaius Goodliffe:	OH! That might be why I couldn't reproduce it -- I wasn't putting the platform in a shaft.
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	ah... there have been some reports of some objects that used to slide without interfence now are too tight.
[17:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	Andrew - Confirmed, Stable on H1, Sinks on H4
[17:20]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Try making the shaft wider.
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	Especially cylindrical objects.
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, thanks Kooky
[17:21]	Chaz Longstaff:	with some floors, they get to within about 1/2 metre, then just stop, with other floors higher up, might miss it by a floor or two.. now if you start walking back and forth it seems to jiggle it and it starts moving again for a bit... then runs out of steam again, till you jiggle it again, but sometimes not even that works
[17:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	I went to Fame H1, and then moved over to Balance. As soon as I was across the border, the sinking began
[17:21]	Chaz Longstaff:	i've tried phantom shafts, and really really really wide shafts, like with a metre or two clearance
[17:21]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Hmm
[17:22]	Chaz Longstaff:	kk kooky back to report so we can switch back to subs for a minute to keep on sub topic
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, gimme a copy then. You have a Jira item for it?
[17:22]	Chaz Longstaff:	well, i piggybacked on Gauis's :}
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	ok that's fine.
[17:23]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Yeah, it does appear to be the same problem that was fixed on mine, but I think he's using a heavier elevator platform.
[17:23]	Gaius Goodliffe:	There might be something else, though. I don't know -- I haven't been able to reproduce it.
[17:23]	Chaz Longstaff:	kk i'll pass andrew copy, and then we can move onto next meeting topic, i don't want to hijack the meeting
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	llMoveToTarget() consumes "script energy". I wonder if they are running out of script energy budget.
[17:23]	Chaz Longstaff:	maybe i should plug a few Duracells in :}
[17:23]	Gaius Goodliffe:	hehe
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	Fortunately, there is no set agenda most of the time, so there is very little to hijack.
[17:24]	Chaz Longstaff gave you Elevator 1.2c Chaz Longstaff.
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	One announcement I forgot to mention... Qarl Linden is working on the first version of the "prim encroachment" problem
[17:24]	Chaz Longstaff:	Andrew, that should be full perm, i'll pass you a notecard a bit later with a few notes on it to save you time.
[17:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	((Andrew, if you want a copy of the bike, grab it. While in flight mode, it also sinks, but at about the same rate as a sole flying avatar.))
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	that is, he's implementing a object-parcel collision query that could be used to determine if an object is overlapping into your parcel
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	this is a prerequisite for megaprim liberation
[17:25]	Gaius Goodliffe:	wee!
[17:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	yesss Andrew.. thank you
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	Qarl holds office hours, so anyone interested could try to attend those and talk to him about it.
[17:25]	Yuu Nakamichi:	a potential fix for sim xings?
[17:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	I had a problem near my land with 40x40x40 prims on 16sqm parcels
[17:26]	Chaz Longstaff:	yeah, hot, that will be popular withmainland people who have their neigbhours megaprims rammed into their living rooms :}
[17:26]	Creem Pye:	what will be the new limit for a megaprim?
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	No, this is not really related to region crossings
[17:26]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Will we be able to make new 65km long prims? ;)
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	and... on the first pass it won't work for prims that are overlapping across region boundaries
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	but that is a logical next step
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	I think the whole project will be delivered in small steps as they are finished
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	for instance, sculptie overlap will not be correctly done for a while yet
[17:27]	Kooky Jetaime:	Even if we can cover in-sim issues
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	but you can talk to Qarl about the details and timeline
[17:27]	Kooky Jetaime:	Andrew - is it going to be a hard limit or a parcel option?
[17:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	because I have a few places where I've intentionally crossed parcel lines with prims, using a little linking trick
[17:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	but its not a problem of how its done.
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Qarl favors manual intervention.
[17:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	That is... the parcel owner must manually select and return the offending object.
[17:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	((I've made stairs from our property down to the Linden Road...))
[17:28]	Gaius Goodliffe nods.
[17:28]	Creem Pye:	couldn't you limit sculpties by their bounding box scale?
[17:29]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Oh yeah, I used to driveways from my garage to the linden road when I lived on the mainland. I wouldn't want those auto-returned.
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	I have customers who bridge Linden Roadways with linked prims...
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	Creem yes that might be a first-order approximation for sculties
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	And many want longer track sections, using megaprims
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	however, it won't be correct in general
[17:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	Simon
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	We're contemplating an exception for "Linden Content"
[17:30]	Gaius Goodliffe:	:)
[17:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	can you tell us more about the performance work you ahev done?
[17:30]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Should generalize that then. Estate owners may want exceptions for their content, too.
[17:30]	Yuu Nakamichi:	(that needs testing)
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	Some Estate owners have already asked for the ability to disable overlap return on their regions.
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno if it will be a per-estate or pe-region option in the first pass
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	You'll have to talk to Qarl.
[17:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	heh
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	After Qarl does that... I've got some ideas on how to make static objects collide across region boundaries.
[17:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	Bring Qarl next week Andrew!
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	Don't know how or where I'll fit that into all the other stuff I want/need to get done.
[17:32]	Arawn Spitteler recalls Steam Sky City had a return problem: Seems to me, Estate Owners might be deserving of some linden powers. Mainland is simply the estate where Linden Lab is Estate Owner.
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	Qarl holds his own hours. I'm not sure what the schedule is... you'll have to look it up in the Wiki
[17:33]	Gaius Goodliffe nods.
[17:33]	Yuu Nakamichi:	usually Fri
[17:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea, but sometimes when topics overlap its handy... so you can quit saying "Ask Qarl"
[17:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	heheh
[17:34]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody, i just had to download the rc. btw qarl office hours are friday 11am slt, in sim q
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	right, as SL becomes more of a "platform" that people rely on, we find we need to open up admin powers to estate and parcel owners
[17:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok Rex
[17:34]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I noticed that kelly isasking for resident input
[17:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	that avi rocks.
[17:34]	Yuu Nakamichi:	on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2219
[17:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Buy an estate, and see what God Mode can do.
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	I'm in favor of that, abolutely. I consider it a value-add for paying customers.
[17:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	though Flight is apparntly a problem
[17:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	Because Tommorrow never comes?
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	Also, parcel owners and estate owners are less likely to be griefers... more to lose should they get caught.
[17:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	((Andrew, did you get a copy of the bike or did you not want it?))
[17:35]	Yuu Nakamichi:	However, I'm not 100% sure what to look for
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	Kooky, I thought I accepted one item...
[17:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	you got the sub
[17:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	the bike was the one flying that sank
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	It was the sub, yes. I never received the bike offer.
[17:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	I can't offer it, no trans
[17:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	its behind you
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	oh, is it rezzed here?
[17:36]	Yuu Nakamichi:	(SVC-2219 relates to the continuing TD issues)
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	ok, I got a copy Kooky
[17:37]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok
[17:37]	Kooky Jetaime:	((Sorry, I wasn' very vehicley a couple weeks ago when you were doing your main collecting.))
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Have you checked out Bato's remedy for Prim Seam Bump? That, and what to do about rail size, will give the Public Works Department a lot to do, on the rail road.
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	No, I haven't actually tried his workaround
[17:38]	Kitto Flora really hopes that the PWD has a clue on building railroads
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	however the fact that it works suggests that there is some logic in Havok4 that discards collisions based on the collision normal pointing away from the contact point
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder where it is done... I may be able to take advantage of that logic to also discard certain contact info within my own special code
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	I need to experiment with that
[17:40]	Yuu Nakamichi would like to discuss the TD issue some more
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think the LL content team has the resources to "fix" all the roads in SL
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	so they'd much rather I come up with a techical fix.
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	Yuu, go ahead and summarize the TD issue you're talking about.
[17:41]	Yuu Nakamichi:	thanks Andrew.
[17:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I just metioned SVC-2219 has become something of a bucket
[17:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	for performance issues related to TD
[17:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	kelly Linden responded by asking resis
[17:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	Andrew - If I can take a step back in topics, when you mentioned cross-region prim position checks, that might actually solve a problem on the jira about people falling through the ground at region crossings while walking on primroads.... We were talking about a week ago at Soft/Rob's OSS OH
[17:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	to help by looking at the new physics stats
[17:42]	Yuu Nakamichi:	in the RC stats window
[17:42]	Kooky Jetaime looks at the buckets
[17:43]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I haven't been able to test much myself
[17:43]	Yuu Nakamichi:	what I have seen was the usual TD but not
[17:44]	Yuu Nakamichi:	an obvious link to physics time
[17:44]	Creem Pye:	by the way, what's "agent time" in the new RC client's performance stats?
[17:44]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I'd be happy to pass on any extra info you'd like to share
[17:44]	Creem Pye:	is that agent physics or scripts attached to agents?
[17:44]	Yuu Nakamichi:	with respect to what to look for
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	We've been looking into that TD issue.
[17:45]	Yuu Nakamichi:	if you are still looking for resident input on this
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	One theory is that it is related to the hourly saves that the simulator host is doing,
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	each region saves its state hourly
[17:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	Andrew, arn't the TD events happening every 10 minutes though
[17:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	not every hour?
[17:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh nevermind
[17:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	misread
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	td=?
[17:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	time dilaation
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	There have been two types of TD problems ... one is a steady, lower performance than expected, the other is cyclic dips in TD
[17:46]	Creem Pye:	time dilation, rex
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	thanks
[17:46]	Chaz Longstaff:	(hehe, glad you asked Rez, grin)
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	I think Simon has added some debugging tools to some simulators that he wants to experiment with
[17:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	From the 2219, they say its happening 7-12 times/hr...
[17:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	that would be more than the state saves
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	One of the causes of the cyclic drop is saving the simstate
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	btw, Simon do you want to talk about the "disable collisions" bit on regions?
[17:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	Chaz - if you have a question, feel free to ask... its not as interesting when you don't know whats going on
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	But, as you say, that shouldn't be running so often
[17:47]	Kooky Jetaime:	Simon - any chance the simstate save is failing and re-attempting?
[17:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	it also seems to last different amounts of time
[17:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	sometimes very short spikes
[17:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	sometimes minutes on end
[17:47]	Simon Linden:	Yes - if you have a region where "disable collisions" is on, we've learned that there's a performance hit as it will regularly scan to disable collisions on objects and pin them in place
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	No Kooky, the vast majority of simstate saves are successful.
[17:47]	Yuu Nakamichi:	(anectdotally)
[17:47]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	about 50% of the ones I looked at took less than a second to complete too
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	Those were just the "void region" simstate saves I was looking at today.
[17:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	Why would the sim scan for collisions if they are disabled?
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	The longest one I saw took 4.16 seconds.
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Have you tried looking at beacons - physicals - and see if theres a spike in activity when TD dipd?
[17:48]	Simon Linden:	It's scanning objects to make sure they are pinned in place - various things can start out in a normal, dynamic state
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	In your experience... how long are the occasional time dilation drops?
[17:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	they really differ a lot Andrew
[17:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	from fractions of a second to minutes
[17:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	perhaps we see back to back
[17:49]	Yuu Nakamichi:	not sure
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	Sounds a lot like the old stuck fish. Any fish in the sim?
[17:50]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I can say minutes as it takes minutes to traverse an affected si in that state
[17:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	You know, sometimes physics just doesn't make sense to me. :)
[17:50]	Chaz Longstaff:	what's si?
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	Well Kitto, supposely the dropp in performance does not correltate with time in the physics engine.
[17:50]	Kitto Flora:	OK, if thats true - whats left? Rezzing stuff?
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure where the rezzing time gets binned in the stats.
[17:51]	Kooky Jetaime:	Sometimes I wish there was a way to turn on a temporary journaling system on sims
[17:51]	Kooky Jetaime:	to just record everything that happens
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	perhaps it goes into "sim time (other)"
[17:52]	Yuu Nakamichi:	chaz: sim, sorry
[17:52]	Yuu Nakamichi:	I did see massive image time spikes
[17:52]	Creem Pye:	right now we have an example of an openspace sim with a crappy time dilation, but a very low frame time (to illustrate what we were talking about last week)
[17:52]	Yuu Nakamichi:	but not always
[17:52]	Simon Linden:	We do lots of logging ... some of the code I just added will allow us to get a dataset of performance by each second for an interval. Hopefully we can connect the dips with other events (sim state saves, internal garbage collection, etc)
[17:52]	Kitto Flora:	Ohhh...
[17:52]	Creem Pye:	(well it was ~0.9 for a while there...)
[17:52]	Kitto Flora:	RAM footprint too big & swapping?
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	Not swapping.
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	Creem - what's the region name?
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	Not RAM footprint.
[17:53]	Yuu Nakamichi:	affected regions woudl have less than 20MB
[17:53]	Creem Pye:	this region
[17:53]	Creem Pye:	although now that i've said it, TD is back to 1.0 =P
[17:53]	Kooky Jetaime:	Simon - any way to tie it to a Sim TD event? so it only triggers during an event?
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	can't too much loggin affect sim performance?
[17:54]	Simon Linden:	No, it needs to be manually enabled. It adds some load to the logging system, so our servers would explode if this started all over the grid :)
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	We're looking for correlations... sorta. I haven't personally sat in a region yet and watched the TD graph, but I'll probably get a chance tomorrow.
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	There, the TD dropped to about .6 for one second.
[17:54]	Kooky Jetaime:	Simon, I didn't mean across the whole grid, I just meant for a "Target" sim.
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	Unfortunately, I've got to run at 18:00 sharp.
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	This office hour is almost over for me.
[17:55]	Creem Pye:	maybe our neighboring sims are running a pachinko simulation =)
[17:55]	Gaius Goodliffe:	hehe
[17:55]	Chaz Longstaff:	well thank you Andrew and Simon, it's great that you take this time!
[17:56]	Mastorian Kingsford:	lol new client made me miss meeting haha
[17:56]	Alisha Matova:	=) look like im late..
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, unfortunately I'll have to run in just a few minutes.
[17:57]	Alisha Matova:	np =)
[17:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	I still like that outfit Rex... Where did you get it?
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler will brave new client later: I have to put my scripting class togeather. Hopefully, it'll do better than my meditation classes.
[17:57]	Mastorian Kingsford:	on ati 1200 cards the default sky height makes the white bands on midnight seting set it to zero and perfect night sky weird but at least i now know why midnight was always having white rings
[17:57]	Rex Cronon:	i wish there was an announcement at least 4 hours before we were required to download/install a new rc version
[17:58]	Alisha Matova:	Did the physics fps hit on tp get brought up?
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn you teach meditation in RL or SL?
[17:58]	Rex Cronon:	thanks kooky. i got it from the silverscreen
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Not the one on TP Alisha.
[17:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	So far, my SL attempts have not been well attended.
[17:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	I am so off to Silverscreen
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	That is, it was not raised for discussion.
[17:59]	Alisha Matova:	well i am happy you know about it =)
[17:59]	Alisha Matova:	=) that way i figures your working on it =P
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	You're talking about a TP arrival?
[17:59]	Simon Linden:	I have to run as well ... thanks again to everyone for coming
[17:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Something I'm wondering about, is whether the physics engine extends look ahead solids, or just calculates everything each frame.
[17:59]	Alisha Matova:	yes Andrew
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Have you correlated it with number of prims attached?
[18:00]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew, simon, and everybody else
[18:00]	Alisha Matova:	i think its more comon on a busy region
[18:00]	Chaz Longstaff:	bye thank you andrew and simon
[18:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	bye all
[18:00]	Mastorian Kingsford:	there is a new way to crash sims i seen it
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Alright Alisha, I'll keep an eye out for that and try to get to it.
[18:00]	Alisha Matova:	that is what i saw also, but I had no real way to track it
[18:00]	Rex Cronon:	have fun
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	So watch the TD...
[18:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh Mastorian?
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, there are a few ways to crash regions. I'm working on one such bug right now.
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Cheers. I have to run. Thanks for comming.
[18:00]	Creem Pye:	thanks for your time
[18:01]	Arawn Spitteler wants to know: How do we crash sims, er, what should we watch for, in the new griefers?
[18:01]	Yuu Nakamichi:	thanks Andrew, Simon
[18:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	heheeh
[18:01]	Alisha Matova:	i think lots of shape morphing prims?
[18:01]	Alisha Matova:	=) yes thank you Andrew
[18:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	That would make sense, consistant with the dissent grief the other week
[18:01]	Mastorian Kingsford:	just saw go to sandboxs its crazy and kinda funny i watched sim crawl they are using particals