User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 12 11

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:04]	Gellan Glenelg:	hi
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	heya andrew
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	how is?
[17:05]	Gellan Glenelg:	hi simon
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	hi hi simon
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Hi
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Things are going alright. Prospero Linden finally figured out the problem I was trying to fix earlier this week, and so 1.25 might be deployed soon...
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	great!
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	I think they were going to try to deploy this evening... lemme check for the status
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure was just looking at the status blog.. says the pilot roll is on for tonight
[17:06]	Neil Robinson:	Hi Folks :)
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2008/12/11/post312/
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	hi neil
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, that's what I see in some IRC logs...
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	1.25 pilot roll will go out around 19:00
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure crosses her fingers!
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Neil was emailing me questions earlier and I suggested he ask them here.
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Since it is very late (or very early) where you are Neil, we'll give you the talking stick first.
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	So maybe you can get all your questions asked and then go to sleep.
[17:09]	Neil Robinson:	Awesome! sorry if I cut in infront of anyone - I've got a few Q's -
[17:09]	Neil Robinson:	that'd rock
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	There is no line really.
[17:09]	Neil Robinson:	question one is to do with logins, basically, is there any command or switch you can use to bypass the login screen, and log straight in
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know of one, do you Simon?
[17:10]	Gellan Glenelg:	yes there is an autologin - looking for syntax
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	It coudl be done with a hacked viewer
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	Not that I know of
[17:10]	Neil Robinson:	I know on maxport the switch is -flp
[17:10]	Neil Robinson:	but I tried that and it doesnt work with SL
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	If you're a programmer type, it would be possible to re-do the viewer
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	(like Andrew just said)
[17:10]	Neil Robinson:	yeah, i'm not myself but its within the scope of the project to do that I think
[17:10]	Gellan Glenelg:	take a look at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Client_parameters (--autologin option)
[17:10]	Neil Robinson:	aha, cool
[17:11]	Gellan Glenelg:	or --login
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure finds http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pre_1.20_Client_parameters but doesn't see what neil is looking for
[17:11]	Neil Robinson:	yeah its a tricky one
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. nm - ty, gellan :)
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	I was just looking at the code...
[17:11]	Gellan Glenelg:	:)
[17:11]	Neil Robinson:	basically we're doing a project for a school for children with special needs, and developing a whole bunch of web/TSL stuff for them
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	and there is an AutoLogin setting that can be saved in one of the config files
[17:12]	Neil Robinson:	but seeing as they can't type - we need a way for them to select their avatar and then log in with it
[17:12]	Neil Robinson:	infact the whole interface has to be controllable with one button
[17:12]	Neil Robinson:	literally, movement, interaction, everything
[17:12]	Neil Robinson:	switch gaming
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure eeps! quite a project!
[17:12]	Neil Robinson:	yeah!
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	have you seen that stuff mitch was talking about a while ago?
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	one button? or one joystic?
[17:13]	Gellan Glenelg:	you could use --login {name} {password} to create multiple "Log on as {name}" shortcuts
[17:13]	Neil Robinson:	one button
[17:13]	Neil Robinson:	is that the syntax?
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	mouse with button?
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	or just button?
[17:13]	Neil Robinson:	just button
[17:13]	Neil Robinson:	we're hoping they can press and hold as well as just press
[17:13]	Neil Robinson:	then we have two 'commands' from one button
[17:14]	Neil Robinson:	also we're not trying to give them the full experience of SL, everything they do will be heavily designed and scripted to meet their needs and the system we're developing
[17:14]	Wolfhaven Teleportation HUD v3.0 is Ready
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... sounds like you really want a very configurable mouse thingy
[17:14]	Neil Robinson:	we're really using SL as a platform and going from there with it
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	that could be configured to fake different input based on button pressing timing
[17:14]	Neil Robinson:	well they all have varying physical abiliities
[17:15]	Neil Robinson:	for some of them, pressing is an achievement
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	hi kitto
[17:15]	Neil Robinson:	etc
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Hello everyone
[17:15]	Neil Robinson:	the most of it we have pretty well worked out, there's just a few things that could be problematic
[17:15]	Neil Robinson:	like for example, how well does SL cope with 'trigger' button presses - can it know when a button is being held down
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	I was just looking at that link to client options and yeah, you want the --login option
[17:16]	Neil Robinson:	awesome
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	autologin just autologins the last successful login
[17:16]	Neil Robinson:	cool, ok that works
[17:16]	Neil Robinson:	we can have a web app where they select their avatar, and have that do some jiggery pokery to log them in
[17:16]	Gellan Glenelg:	LSL can do that - it can detect the start of a touch, end of a touch, or "is being touched"
[17:16]	Neil Robinson:	is it reliable?
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	the SL client doesn't really distinquish click and click+hold...
[17:17]	Neil Robinson:	ok
[17:17]	Sindy Tsure chases the colton bear.. brb
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	most UI elements handle the click-down, and click-up events
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	so if it got a click-down and no click-up it thinks it is in click+drag
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	not all UI elements handle click+drag
[17:18]	Neil Robinson:	basically what we're imagining is a 'thing' that all their avatars would be sat on, that would take them to varying destinations, and allow them to perform tasks there, with a HUD they can navigate via click or click and hold
[17:18]	Neil Robinson:	so on the hud, click means next, click and hold means select
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	but if you play with the buttons in the UI you'll notice that they don't actually trigger on the click-down... only on the click-up
[17:18]	Rex Cronon:	hello everbody
[17:18]	Gellan Glenelg:	on a HUD it should be no problem - assuming you can find someone to code it that way
[17:19]	Neil Robinson:	so it might go - go to> racetrack>race in car
[17:19]	Neil Robinson:	or go to> racetrack>watch race
[17:19]	Neil Robinson:	etc
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, I'm not an expert on HUD click events...
[17:20]	Neil Robinson:	thats just one idea
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	I think you could make a HUD that covers most of the screen, but is transparent.... but does it also grab click events?
[17:20]	Kitto Flora:	control() ?
[17:20]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew:yes
[17:20]	Neil Robinson:	i'm really not scripty sadly, so I'm just trying to work out whats possible
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	I think there is a setting where the UI will not pass click events to objects that are sufficiently transparent
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	:)
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	hi rex
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	but I've never used it
[17:21]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[17:21]	Neil Robinson:	ok
[17:21]	Neil Robinson:	so in theory that sort of menu is possible?
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	Currently, mouse clicks are frequently grabbed by alpha textures
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	Yes I think so Neil
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	... where they are transparent. Very annoying.
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	some griefer tools like that, kitto :(
[17:21]	Neil Robinson:	I guess the best way to explain it, imagine the Xp start bar but instead of moving the mouse to select stuff, you click a button, and then click and hold to select that 'option'
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	Oh yes - good way to hijack money
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	honestly, your best bet for advice is to find an SL Resident with the right knowledge about how to do what you want.
[17:22]	Kitto Flora:	But seems most griefers aint that smart :)
[17:22]	Neil Robinson:	yeah, its hard to find one tho! am open to suggestions
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	As an LL developer who has too much work to do... I'm practially a n00b when it comes to SL UI interface.
[17:22]	Neil Robinson:	also they need to be sympathetic to the fact this is for a school for disabled kids so our budget ain't sky high
[17:22]	Neil Robinson:	lol
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	for scripting info, the forums are pretty good - look for the scripting tips forum at http://forums.secondlife.com/
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	Neil, there is also an SL educators mailing list
[17:23]	Kitto Flora:	Seems the scripters who are good and advert in SL are 100% busy.
[17:23]	Neil Robinson:	yeah, there are issues about whats under NDA and stuff though, I can talk about general concepts but to really get indepth we'd need them to be under NDA
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	supposedly that list is a very good resoruce
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	however I think it has pretty high volume
[17:23]	Neil Robinson:	yes I've been speaking to pathfinder a bit
[17:23]	Rex Cronon:	u r talking rl wages neil?
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	nda? this is a commercial program?
[17:24]	Neil Robinson:	yes
[17:24]	Neil Robinson:	to both
[17:24]	Kitto Flora:	Well, if you hire a scripter you have to tell them stuff
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure:	at some other time, you might want to watch this too, neil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t52gkAwJq8
[17:25]	Sindy Tsure:	probably wouldn't apply directly to your project but i'd bet good things could be done with it
[17:25]	Neil Robinson:	yes! we do kitto - we just need to find someone who can do what we'll need before we can tell them stuff, but the worry is that we can't know what they can do without telling them stuff
[17:25]	Neil Robinson:	lol
[17:25]	Neil Robinson:	i'll have a look at it
[17:25]	Sindy Tsure:	it's the "Hands Free 3D: Second Life Navigation Demo" video
[17:25]	Neil Robinson:	my original plan was to use head tracking VR headsets in mouselook with two buttons, one for walk and the other for select
[17:25]	Kitto Flora:	Neil: get em to show you other stuff they made
[17:26]	Kitto Flora:	Neil: Is this for 'challenged' residents?
[17:26]	Neil Robinson:	but some of the kids, they cant do that even, so we need to simplify it even more
[17:26]	Neil Robinson:	its going to be on the teen grid
[17:26]	Neil Robinson:	they're all students at a special school in London
[17:26]	Kitto Flora:	Latimer?
[17:26]	Neil Robinson:	we're working with the flagship technology school, and the plan is that once its all working right, we roll it out to be something for all the special schools
[17:27]	Neil Robinson:	I didnt know latimer had a special needs department
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... it occurs to me that Qdot Bunnyhug has the skills you need, but I don't know how busy he is these days.
[17:27]	Neil Robinson:	I went to Fortismere :)
[17:27]	Kitto Flora makes a joke ;)
[17:27]	Neil Robinson:	excellent! name noted down
[17:27]	Neil Robinson:	A joke about fortismere? not too many of those floating about..
[17:27]	Kitto Flora:	No - about Latimer :)
[17:28]	Neil Robinson:	Kitto you're from north London?
[17:28]	Neil Robinson:	small world !
[17:28]	Kitto Flora:	My writer is in California, but has lived many places, West London among them.
[17:28]	Neil Robinson:	ah, cool
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Qdot is a roboticist and an expert at computer interface hackery.
[17:28]	Neil Robinson:	for those of you who are confused, Fortismere and Latimer are two popular choices for secondary (high) schools in London
[17:29]	Neil Robinson:	aha I'll get in touch with him :)
[17:29]	Neil Robinson:	the other Q, is, to what extent does LL support moving sims from the main grid to TSL for educational projects?
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	Letimer is one of the 'top grade' ones. or was. I had a chance and didnt like the place,
[17:29]	Neil Robinson:	Fortismere usually beats it :p
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	Neil, Blue Linden is an expert on Teen SL issues and policies.
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_hours#Blue_Linden
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	I think we've moved stuff in the past.
[17:30]	Neil Robinson:	cool
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	4pm slt, wednesdays
[17:30]	Gellan Glenelg:	jinx
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	:P
[17:30]	Gellan Glenelg:	Blue's OH: 4pm on wednesdays, http://slurl.com/secondlife/Grasmere/67/156/23
[17:30]	Neil Robinson:	So just throwing it open to suggestions, anyone got any better ideas than my click/hold based XP style menu?
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	And you probably know already that it is possible for adult-run institutions that focus on teen issues to get regions up in Teen SL.
[17:31]	Neil Robinson:	yes, I've been talking to some other schools that have a presence there, too
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	Neil what about: eye tracking, and head-tracking?
[17:31]	Neil Robinson:	head tracking we looked into
[17:32]	Rex Cronon:	sadly i wasn't here when the discussion started. i had to install the new rc. i hop that andrew will post the transcript
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	eye movements might be able to signal some very basic commands
[17:32]	Neil Robinson:	Vuvix (or some similarly named company) do a VR head tracking headset that is compatable with SL, and retails for about $500
[17:32]	Neil Robinson:	eye tracking.. thats getting into a whole new area of interface design I really have no expertise in, but I think its cost prohibative
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	eye tracking might be possible with a webcam pointing at the face from the screen, but would require some custom software to be written
[17:33]	Neil Robinson:	yes
[17:33]	Neil Robinson:	I think one of the problems with that is the same with the head tracking, some of the kids can't really control their movements that well
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	and it would probably increase the required CPU power of your SL machine
[17:34]	Neil Robinson:	by some I mean most
[17:34]	Kitto Flora:	Needs a tracker that substitues for the mouse. At that point the SL interface is transparent
[17:34]	Neil Robinson:	yes, thats another consideration
[17:34]	Neil Robinson:	they're very keen for it to be switch based
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	sounds like you might need a range of options.. hard to find a common denominator
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I don't think eye tracking would work well if there were a lot of spurious head motions on top of the eye signal
[17:35]	Neil Robinson:	we're developing the head tracking interface in parallel with the switch based one though
[17:35]	Neil Robinson:	its about presenting a range of solutions, there are abilities across the whole scale
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:35]	Kitto Flora:	Eyetracckers are mounted on things like spectacles. HEad motion does nothing
[17:35]	Neil Robinson:	some kids really can't move that well at all, others are much more able bodied
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	but you aren't only focusing on SL are you? are you also working on getting them to use the web in general?
[17:36]	Rex Cronon:	how about verbal commands?
[17:36]	Neil Robinson:	verbal commands are out :(
[17:37]	Neil Robinson:	and yes the scope of the project is huge, it ties into RL activities, web based stuff, all kinds of things across the board
[17:37]	Neil Robinson:	its not purely an SL project but, thats the focus at the moment,
[17:37]	Neil Robinson:	the one button interface is something thats just come up recently and its a bit of a cause for concern, its not something we'd anticipated a need for
[17:38]	Neil Robinson:	its not undoable, just creates new challenges
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	Well the easiest way to hack the SL UI is through LSL scripted HUD attachments, however I think there are some limitations...
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	it isn't possible yet to have a script teleport you all over the grid, right?
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	control() only has interface for left mouse button. Not middle or right
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	not directly.. can do llMapDestination but there's user input required to accept it
[17:38]	Neil Robinson:	you know, people say that, but I'm really sure I saw that once
[17:39]	Gellan Glenelg:	you can use llMapDestination... but then you need to hit the "teleport" button
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	well, they dont need to get around the grid
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	just the islands we're making for them
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	so we could have our own 'transit' system built
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	well, that is a small grid
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	thats actually what we're working on
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	ah ok
[17:39]	Rex Cronon:	r the islands touchin?
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	yes
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	in a cube shape
[17:39]	Neil Robinson:	4 or 9, tbd
[17:39]	Rex Cronon:	than is possible to move anywhere
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	yes
[17:40]	Gellan Glenelg:	"teleport" between contiguous regions is just a script-controlled (possibley VERY fast) vehincle
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	thats what we're thinking
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	but then, once we get them there, how do we get them interacting with the stuff in that location
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	we can unsit them from what gets them there
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	warppos.. just have a small delay to nudge you over the sim lines
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	but how do we sit them in a race car
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	or on a butterfly
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	etc
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto here is an expert at making trains and other vehicles that follow tracks
[17:40]	Gellan Glenelg:	no way to *script* a sit
[17:40]	Rex Cronon:	u don't sit them. u morph the seat:)
[17:40]	Neil Robinson:	thats what I was thinking! :)
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	he might have some products that could help you
[17:41]	Neil Robinson:	have all the attachments there, but invisible
[17:41]	Kitto Flora does automated mas transport
[17:41]	Neil Robinson:	coolio
[17:41]	Kitto Flora:	http://www.sr-research.com/ Eye tracking gadget
[17:41]	Neil Robinson:	do you think that idea would be workable?
[17:41]	Neil Robinson:	aha noting that down too..
[17:41]	Neil Robinson scribbles in his notebook
[17:41]	Kitto Flora:	Others listed in google search
[17:41]	Neil Robinson:	awesome :)
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, is it possible for an LSL script to easily determine a short click from a long click?
[17:42]	Rex Cronon:	yes
[17:42]	Kitto Flora:	Yes if CONTROL has been seized
[17:42]	Gellan Glenelg:	yes it is... measure time between touch_start and touch_end events
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	oh but control requires confirmation?
[17:42]	Neil Robinson:	we could mod the client though to not require that
[17:43]	Kitto Flora:	The interface tells yo edge events and up and down
[17:43]	Neil Robinson:	as part of my research into this i've been doing some borderline nsfw work looking at the 'realrestraint' viewer, they've put in stuff like the ablity to 'force sit' an avatar, and 'force unsit' it, etc
[17:43]	Kitto Flora:	Take Control in SL doe not need Confirm. Presently in Open Sim it does
[17:43]	Andrew Linden:	is confirmation automagically granted when you log back in with attachment already connected?
[17:44]	Neil Robinson:	if we could take those bits of code, I was thinking we could use it to 'put' the avatar onto and off of the things we need to put them on and off of
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Mmmm .. would have to check that for say .. a hud
[17:44]	Neil Robinson:	put them on a merry go round for a ride, unsit them when its over and return the control to the hude, etc
[17:44]	Sindy Tsure spies a price for that "eye link II".. 26,320
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	If you ride a vehicle and relog, you arrive back standing.
[17:44]	Neil Robinson:	thts the 'cost prohibative' part I mentioned lol
[17:44]	Gellan Glenelg:	if you log on with a hud "already attached", it will trigger a new "attach" event, so that can re-request permissions
[17:44]	Neil Robinson:	x60 students..
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	Humm.. Maybe the chinese make a consumer version for $1.49
[17:45]	Neil Robinson:	yeah but the Postage and packing would be a rip off
[17:45]	Neil Robinson:	:p
[17:45]	Sindy Tsure finds it hard to believe there's not something cheaper
[17:45]	Neil Robinson buys camera stuffs from HK/ebay
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	There probably is
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	there is a programmable micprocessor, from parallax that is around 3USD, but u need somebody to program it, and someobody else to deal witht he electronics part
[17:46]	Neil Robinson:	I think the solution is more about finding ways to make 'switch' gaming work in SL - its a system they know and are comfortable with
[17:46]	Kitto Flora:	Occurs to me: Optical mouse works on any non-totally bland surface. SO... should work on white of eye
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	Neil, if you were able to reach the point where you had a single HUD object capturing all clicks, you might be able to get more than two states from the input
[17:46]	Neil Robinson:	interesting
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	if the hud were to change color slowly you might be able to get a click, long click, and a very long click
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	where the color would be feedback about what state it was in
[17:47]	Neil Robinson:	thats interesting
[17:47]	Neil Robinson:	but again pretty script intensive, is that doable, reliably?
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	Yes I think so
[17:47]	Gellan Glenelg:	yes
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Depends on the sim LSL speed
[17:48]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[17:48]	Neil Robinson:	I was thinking maybe of something like the pie chart menu, where you'd click and hold to bring it up, and it'd rotate/ go through the optoins maybe release to select that option
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	if the simulator is severly lagged then the scripts run slow, and will detect artificially long clicks
[17:48]	Neil Robinson:	then click and hold again to go through the tree like that until you reached your final option
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Neil: yes that sort of thing can be done
[17:49]	Neil Robinson:	thats more the sort of thing, we're not trying to give them full sl controls, just the ability to interact with the activities and experiences we're designing for them
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	I sell a frizzbee that is thrown by a mouse left click. BUT how HARD its thrown depends on how long you hold the button down for
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	Ths script for that bit is simple
[17:49]	Neil Robinson:	actually that could be a really cool game, they can throw a frisbee to eachother
[17:50]	Neil Robinson:	stuff like that, they've never been able to do
[17:50]	Neil Robinson:	so its really rewarding for them to be able to do it in a virtual world
[17:50]	Kitto Flora:	You cant 'catch' these (yet) , you have to click em on the ground to pick up
[17:50]	Neil Robinson:	we're talking about people who have known eachother for years maybe, but never been able to shake hands or high five, a lot of the value is in just empowering them to communicate
[17:50]	Neil Robinson:	and interact
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	There no shake hands animation in SL
[17:51]	Neil Robinson:	ok well I'm pretty pleased that most of the feedback i'm getting is 'thats possible'
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	Theers various hugs
[17:51]	Neil Robinson:	we can make a shake hands :p
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	And of coulse waves
[17:51]	Neil Robinson:	just a synchronised animation orsomething
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	Never seen a shake hands
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	hard to line up the avatars..
[17:52]	Neil Robinson:	lol - tbh we're not planning it either it was just an example
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	It seems to me that you might be able to get some volunteer or low-cost help with your project if you were to solicit in the right venue
[17:52]	Kitto Flora:	Yeah. Lotta hugs that dont line up well
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure where the best place would be... forums, email list, or some other location.
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	Blue might also be a good source for tips on that
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	doesn't he own the vteam?
[17:53]	Neil Robinson:	Vteam?
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	volunteers.. mentors/greeters, stuff like that
[17:53]	Gellan Glenelg:	blue isn't part of vteam any more
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	oh..
[17:53]	Neil Robinson:	I think blue is mostly ldpw atm
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	ldpw?
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	moles?
[17:54]	Neil Robinson:	linden department of public works
[17:54]	Gellan Glenelg:	dept of public works
[17:54]	Neil Robinson:	yes moles :)
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure had not heard that
[17:54]	Neil Robinson:	him and michael head that up
[17:54]	Kitto Flora:	Humm. Thats not a great place for good script stuff
[17:55]	Rex Cronon:	i just read the main blog and seems that katt is looking for Stories from Second Life, yours neil might be one such story:)
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	still, he was vteam for a while.. may be able to offer suggestions on where to look
[17:55]	Kitto Flora:	They build nice. But tecnically - for advanced support and scripting ... they are .. lacking.
[17:55]	Neil Robinson:	its possible Rex
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Neil, you might also try contacting Philip Linden himself. He has some side interests in ideas for human-computer interface research.
[17:55]	Neil Robinson:	we're also thinking about putting in for the linden prize and then letting the kids decide how to spend the prize money
[17:55]	Neil Robinson:	oh really?
[17:56]	Neil Robinson:	Its hard to get an audience with the king though, if you know what I mean
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	And since he's not CEO of LL anymore he is now getting into some real projects
[17:56]	Rex Cronon:	it depends on your cause:)
[17:56]	Simon Linden:	It's easier these days, he's actually getting to touch code
[17:56]	Neil Robinson:	Cool
[17:56]	Neil Robinson:	Do you think he'd be interested?
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, he isn't quite as busy as he was
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	Tell him ya wann make blue pills
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	He'll certainly be a likely source of good ideas.
[17:57]	Simon Linden:	At minimum he'd be very interested to hear what you're doing
[17:57]	Neil Robinson:	Cool
[17:57]	Rex Cronon:	it would be good pr for ll:)
[17:57]	Neil Robinson:	Is there some sort of pathway to getting a message through to him?
[17:57]	Neil Robinson:	I'm guessing he gets more than one or two offline IM's
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	mitch is also looking at some ui-type projects
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure points to a youtube link way back up in the transcript as something related
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Neil, you could IM him, but he gets lots of IMs so no guarantee that it would get sufficient examination.
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Similarly his email is pretty full, and I think he reads through it in blocks.
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	I've got replies from him months late.
[17:59]	Neil Robinson:	ah, ok
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	But it is worth a shot.
[18:00]	Neil Robinson:	That might not actually be so bad, we're taking a very long term approach with the project
[18:00]	Neil Robinson:	we're letting the kids design as much of it as possible which is also great
[18:00]	Neil Robinson:	for instance, we've decided with the school that there will be a 'virtual school' in there, but what that actually looks like is totally up to the kids
[18:00]	Neil Robinson:	do they want a cloud castle? or an underwater paradise, etc
[18:00]	Neil Robinson:	if they say both, we're screwed though lol!
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	sounds better then when i was in school!
[18:01]	Neil Robinson:	totally, I'm jealous!
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	no - not screwed.. just have some squid
[18:01]	Kitto Flora:	Underwater cloud castles are possible here
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	Alas, the hour is up and I actually have to bee somewhere at some deadline this evening.
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	So, I'm going to run.
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[18:01]	Neil Robinson:	ah, eep, sorry for monopolising it folks
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, andrew. ty!
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[18:01]	Gellan Glenelg:	thanks andrew, simon
[18:02]	Simon Linden:	me to, thanks everyone for coming
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure runs off, too.. and ty simon!
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	bye simon, sindy
[18:02]	Neil Robinson:	thanks for all your help folks!
[18:02]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye everyone
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure:	bye, all.. good luck with the project, neil!
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	bye kittoy
[18:02]	Neil Robinson:	Thanks!
[18:02]	Neil Robinson:	I'll probbably be back here next week.. lol
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	kitto*
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	Try the tuesday
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	11Am
[18:03]	Rex Cronon:	btw neil, i am also a scripter, so who knows i might be helpfull:)
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	7PM UK
[18:03]	Rex Cronon:	bye