Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2015-02-26
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[2015/02/26 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2015/02/26 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
[2015/02/26 15:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex.
[2015/02/26 15:00] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Heya everyone :)
[2015/02/26 15:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Whirly.
[2015/02/26 15:00] Gibson Firehawk: greetings
[2015/02/26 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi yuzury
[2015/02/26 15:00] Jenna Felton: hi Rex :) and all who came, too
[2015/02/26 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi whrily
[2015/02/26 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
[2015/02/26 15:01] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2015/02/26 15:01] TheBlack Box: hey hey
[2015/02/26 15:01] Rex Cronon: .
[2015/02/26 15:01] Lucia Nightfire: fire
[2015/02/26 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi tbb
[2015/02/26 15:01] Caleb Linden: your av looks awesome
[2015/02/26 15:01] TheBlack Box: Hey :)
[2015/02/26 15:02] Jenna Felton: /me agrees, i like lights and sparkies :) in general
[2015/02/26 15:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Gibson, TheBlackBox, and Jonathan.
[2015/02/26 15:03] TheBlack Box: hi
[2015/02/26 15:03] Jonathan Yap: good evening everybody
[2015/02/26 15:03] Rex Cronon: hi jonathan
[2015/02/26 15:05] Caleb Linden: Does anyone use SLGO here?
[2015/02/26 15:05] nolink (whirly.fizzle): I do. Not using it atm though
[2015/02/26 15:05] Jenna Felton: not me
[2015/02/26 15:05] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): no.. I am in Japan.
[2015/02/26 15:06] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Why?
[2015/02/26 15:06] TheBlack Box: i use a real computer :)
[2015/02/26 15:06] nolink (whirly.fizzle): I can login an alt on it
[2015/02/26 15:06] Caleb Linden: With this weeks RC we put in a fix for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-8297
[2015/02/26 15:06] Rex Cronon: maybe caleb wants to invest in slgo:)
[2015/02/26 15:06] Caleb Linden: noooooo!
[2015/02/26 15:06] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I heard it can be used only from USA.
[2015/02/26 15:07] Caleb Linden: is that right?
[2015/02/26 15:07] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Is it my mistake?
[2015/02/26 15:07] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Oh can't test that. Onlive already updated the viewer to use a channel without th ' in it and it forces an update which you can't get around.
[2015/02/26 15:07] nolink (whirly.fizzle): *the
[2015/02/26 15:08] nolink (whirly.fizzle): It was the ' in the channel name causing the TPs to break right?
[2015/02/26 15:09] nolink (whirly.fizzle): So anyway, that bugs been fixed on SLGO for a while now.
[2015/02/26 15:09] Caleb Linden: that's good
[2015/02/26 15:09] Inara Breen: It was the "'", Whirls, Dennis confirmed when we were chating about the workaround OnLive rolled out
[2015/02/26 15:09] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Yeah
[2015/02/26 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: did they ever address the estate ban issue when using SLGO?
[2015/02/26 15:09] Jenna Felton: hello Simon
[2015/02/26 15:10] Inara Breen: Hey, Simon
[2015/02/26 15:10] Simon Linden: Hello
[2015/02/26 15:10] nolink (whirly.fizzle): I did try to change a normal viewer to have ' in the channel name but its automatically stripped out
[2015/02/26 15:10] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, SImon.
[2015/02/26 15:10] Rex Cronon: hello simon
[2015/02/26 15:10] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Heya Simon
[2015/02/26 15:11] Jenna Felton: why can a ' be a problem in the channel name? it is a regular character :)
[2015/02/26 15:11] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Ah, one of my Japansese friend tells, SLGO can't be used from Japan.
[2015/02/26 15:11] Caleb Linden: oh ok
[2015/02/26 15:11] Simon Linden: that's too bad
[2015/02/26 15:12] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I think It may be the spec of onlive.com
[2015/02/26 15:12] Lucia Nightfire: so whats the word
[2015/02/26 15:12] Lucia Nightfire: whats cooking
[2015/02/26 15:12] Lucia Nightfire: when do we get fed
[2015/02/26 15:13] Caleb Linden: :)
[2015/02/26 15:13] Rex Cronon: diet does your body good:)
[2015/02/26 15:14] Jenna Felton: but not after you stop the diet
[2015/02/26 15:14] Jenna Felton: than a wonder happens :)
[2015/02/26 15:14] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): btw, Does inline browser support HTML5?
[2015/02/26 15:15] Jenna Felton: to go around the flash videos?
[2015/02/26 15:15] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Hm don't think it does, but not 100% sure
[2015/02/26 15:15] Caleb Linden: no idea
[2015/02/26 15:15] Rex Cronon: html5 might make a nice entry point 4 malware:(
[2015/02/26 15:16] Jenna Felton: apropos mailware, is there any reasonable way to run SL viewr in a sort of sand box,
[2015/02/26 15:16] Lucia Nightfire: ha, flash does that on it's own enough
[2015/02/26 15:16] Lucia Nightfire: not to mention the parent company every "update"
[2015/02/26 15:16] Jenna Felton: that the viewer does not write any data on disd, expect probably the cache?
[2015/02/26 15:16] Jonathan Yap: Jenna, you can set up a VM and run it there
[2015/02/26 15:16] Jenna Felton: disd = disc
[2015/02/26 15:17] TheBlack Box: i wish oculus rift would work well in VM
[2015/02/26 15:17] Jenna Felton: i tried to set up a VM but the result was very slow. so i droped the idea that day, but it was a computer ago i must admit
[2015/02/26 15:18] Rex Cronon: btw why is the sim server software so borked:(
[2015/02/26 15:18] nolink (whirly.fizzle): No it doesnt. TRy https://html5test.com/ in the internal browser
[2015/02/26 15:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Whirly, Caleb, Jenna.
[2015/02/26 15:19] Caleb Linden: aha
[2015/02/26 15:19] Rex Cronon: now if u rez a few thousand temp physical objects and delete the rezzers than the sim keeps of rezzing those objects even after u delete the rezzers:(
[2015/02/26 15:19] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Webkit needs to die in fire anyway lol
[2015/02/26 15:19] Rex Cronon: keeps on rezzing*
[2015/02/26 15:20] Jenna Felton: i could try a VM on this computer. at the next opportunity.... wow, that was the reason for the bug with sim keeping rezzing prims Rex?
[2015/02/26 15:20] Rex Cronon: the sim is stuck in a loop rezzing those things and there doesn't want to stop:(
[2015/02/26 15:20] nolink (whirly.fizzle): What happened to the work on CEF? Seems to have ground to a halt
[2015/02/26 15:21] Caleb Linden: CEF?
[2015/02/26 15:21] Gibson Firehawk: chrome embedded framework
[2015/02/26 15:22] nolink (whirly.fizzle): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-218
[2015/02/26 15:22] Rex Cronon: i don't know what is the reason jenna:(
[2015/02/26 15:22] Jenna Felton: ah ok
[2015/02/26 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: theres several exploits with physics and temp physics these days, esp coalesced, not to mention the separate rez threshold which makes mass single rezzers redundant. Why I wish there was a parcel setting to allow/disallow rezzing of coalesced objects
[2015/02/26 15:23] Rex Cronon: is not like what "the bomb" does. u can still rez but is quite laggy
[2015/02/26 15:23] Jenna Felton: because it was a script without prim mentioned and i was very curious about how that was possible
[2015/02/26 15:24] Gibson Firehawk: if i recall right Whirly, i think Oz said something about wanting to focus on getting the tools update done first before bringing in CEF
[2015/02/26 15:24] Rex Cronon: the rezzers r deleted by the sim, but the physical temp object keep on rezzing
[2015/02/26 15:24] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Yeah, Ann-Marie reported that too
[2015/02/26 15:24] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Hmm lemme fin d it
[2015/02/26 15:25] Lucia Nightfire: BUG-5530
[2015/02/26 15:25] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Last 2 comments on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5530
[2015/02/26 15:25] Lucia Nightfire: beat her
[2015/02/26 15:25] nolink (whirly.fizzle): :D
[2015/02/26 15:25] Lucia Nightfire: I deserve a cookie
[2015/02/26 15:25] Jenna Felton: actually the sim could test if the parent of the prim is stil alive and when the parent who issued rezzing is gone than there is no reason to rez the prim. but probably that check was out of function that time
[2015/02/26 15:26] Gibson Firehawk: she got the clickable link in though :P
[2015/02/26 15:26] Lucia Nightfire: my link is too
[2015/02/26 15:26] Simon Linden: it's probably an update issue, Rex ... the solution is don't go around rezzing a few thousnad temp objects
[2015/02/26 15:26] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Only on FS :P
[2015/02/26 15:26] nolink (whirly.fizzle): They don't have a JIRA parser
[2015/02/26 15:26] Lucia Nightfire: Simon, tell taht to the griffs
[2015/02/26 15:27] Rex Cronon: lol simon. that is not a solution
[2015/02/26 15:27] Rex Cronon: do u know how many temp physical objects does a gun rezzes? they r called bullets:)
[2015/02/26 15:28] Lucia Nightfire: Also, just a heads up if it isn't already known, but rigged mesh crashers are on the rise, there is no defense against them with mute, automute, reducing LOD render factor, dropping volume, only Ctrl Alt Shift 4 or derendering the wearer
[2015/02/26 15:28] Jenna Felton: that gives me an idea, to make a budget of rezzed prims, the budget tied to an agent to rezz, say 100 prims a minute on a sim and then it is delayed.
[2015/02/26 15:28] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Are yours surviving region restarts Rex?
[2015/02/26 15:28] Jenna Felton: i.e. you get no build rights until the minute is over, no matter if it is you rezzing or your prims
[2015/02/26 15:28] Rex Cronon: is swt surving a region restart:)
[2015/02/26 15:29] Rex Cronon: i didn't stay long enough to see
[2015/02/26 15:29] Simon Linden: Lucia - so those are bad mesh data that gets uploaded, someone wears it and it kills your viewer?
[2015/02/26 15:29] Lucia Nightfire: thats corrupted mesh, but it falls into the same cat
[2015/02/26 15:30] Rex Cronon: it happened today at swt
[2015/02/26 15:30] Lucia Nightfire: I've had to blacklist 30 agents in the last month for using that exploit in just one sim and 3 times in aother
[2015/02/26 15:30] Simon Linden: ugh
[2015/02/26 15:31] Lucia Nightfire: I would suggest adding a new param to automute, derender and stop animations
[2015/02/26 15:31] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Dont know what this "new" mesh crasher is yet. I havnt managed to get crashed by it. All the known corrupted mesh crashes should be fixed now. I keep bugging Lucia for her dumps lol.
[2015/02/26 15:31] Lucia Nightfire: it wouldn't hurt to add a "send who I just muted to chat" option too, since there is a log file option, heh
[2015/02/26 15:31] Jenna Felton: there was a web page somewhere explaining how to automute such crashers. on firestorm and the linden viewer. but i dont find the bookmark again..
[2015/02/26 15:32] Simon Linden: What automute parameter would that be?
[2015/02/26 15:32] Lucia Nightfire: I could send you the name of a "combat HUD" creator that offers them
[2015/02/26 15:32] Jonathan Yap: Whirly, would jellybabies help in that case?
[2015/02/26 15:32] Rex Cronon: and speaking of exploits. having somebody sending message to people in the sim with your name is not fun:(
[2015/02/26 15:32] Lucia Nightfire: [15:32:05] Simon Linden: What automute parameter would that be? <<-what do you mean?
[2015/02/26 15:32] nolink (whirly.fizzle): That advice is "bad". If you leave those settings enabled all the time, lots of legit content won't rez. Then people come complain to support >.<
[2015/02/26 15:33] nolink (whirly.fizzle): Its this you mean right? https://thegreenlanterns.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/debug-settings-to-make-graphics-crashers-obsolete/
[2015/02/26 15:33] Jenna Felton: cool thank you Whirly
[2015/02/26 15:34] Lucia Nightfire: thats just to make laggers not show, but it affects other things, liek detailed grass or avatars
[2015/02/26 15:34] nolink (whirly.fizzle): If you pass that onto anyone, make sure they know to change those settings back if they start seeing half thei house missing heh
[2015/02/26 15:34] Jenna Felton: i was hardly thinking what debug seetings that are so i could search in web :) yes it is the page
[2015/02/26 15:35] nolink (whirly.fizzle): I've lost count of the number of people complaining about missing objects only to find out they changed those settings & all was fixed after changing them back
[2015/02/26 15:36] Simon Linden: Lucia - I didn't understand what you meant by [15:31] Lucia Nightfire: I would suggest adding a new param to automute, derender and stop animations
[2015/02/26 15:36] Rex Cronon: so, what is being done to stop others from impersonate u in public chat? this is not script that does it. it is a "special" viewer that sends bad data to sim server:(
[2015/02/26 15:37] Lucia Nightfire: I would suggest adding a new param to the "RenderAutoMute*" family of debug functions. Something that derenders the agent and stops their animations.
[2015/02/26 15:37] Rex Cronon: impersonating*
[2015/02/26 15:37] Simon Linden: right- but when?
[2015/02/26 15:37] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, haven't seen that since 2008
[2015/02/26 15:38] Rex Cronon: what u mean lucy. a few days ago at swt. u were there
[2015/02/26 15:38] Lucia Nightfire: idk, how is ARC calc'd? are total tri counts known before they're processed?
[2015/02/26 15:38] Lucia Nightfire: *ARW
[2015/02/26 15:39] Jonathan Yap: Lucy, a change that Simon did the initial work on and that Oz has been working on will be out at some point: complex avatars will be displayed as colored blobs. That might help with this kind of problem.
[2015/02/26 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: that is already out
[2015/02/26 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: that doesn't stop the problem
[2015/02/26 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: that still builds memory and ARW
[2015/02/26 15:39] Jonathan Yap: No it's not, because I'm working on it with Oz--you must be thinking of something else
[2015/02/26 15:39] nolink (whirly.fizzle): http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Revisiting_Render_Cost is the most up to date page on how render weights calculated I think
[2015/02/26 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: unless you have ctrl alt shift 4 active or teh avatar derendered
[2015/02/26 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: the color blobs are AutoMute afaik
[2015/02/26 15:40] Jonathan Yap: yes, but the current code you are running has some issues
[2015/02/26 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: where blobs are basically sprites
[2015/02/26 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: but still, the worn object data is still fully seen by the viewer
[2015/02/26 15:41] Jonathan Yap: also, render weight gets renamed to avatar complexity when that change comes out
[2015/02/26 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: heh, another name change huh
[2015/02/26 15:41] Simon Linden: You can manually set some of those values but Oz and Jonathan have been working on a way to expose it in the UI and have it on by default
[2015/02/26 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: so it isn't AutoMute, but something else?
[2015/02/26 15:42] nolink (whirly.fizzle): You can play with those changes now https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-2082 Viewer link is under "Testing" (though its often an old link)
[2015/02/26 15:42] Jonathan Yap: Also part of this project is to have your viewer report your complexity value. In the future it is hoped that the server will send this to people nearby, so they won't have to "draw" you to see if you are too complex to render
[2015/02/26 15:43] Simon Linden: The servers already do that
[2015/02/26 15:43] Simon Linden: The LL viewer is buggy how it's reading the server values
[2015/02/26 15:43] Jonathan Yap: ah okay, I knew there was some issue with it
[2015/02/26 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: why isn't ARW calcable by the server
[2015/02/26 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: why are multiple viewer inputs required?
[2015/02/26 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: is that just the way its always been or what?
[2015/02/26 15:44] Rex Cronon: if i were a betting man i would bet that special viewers will fake those values
[2015/02/26 15:44] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, old news
[2015/02/26 15:44] Lucia Nightfire: thats why OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT is neutered atm
[2015/02/26 15:45] Rex Cronon: yes but this is what jonathan just said "[15:42] Jonathan Yap: Also part of this project is to have your viewer report your complexity value"
[2015/02/26 15:45] Lucia Nightfire: which is why we still have no efficient means by script fo detecting when someone attahes a sculpt lagger
[2015/02/26 15:45] Simon Linden: Lucia - the server doesn't actually look at a lot of the data the viewer uses, since it doesn't have to render it
[2015/02/26 15:46] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, but why can't the server do render weight calc the same way it has to process land impact
[2015/02/26 15:47] Jonathan Yap: It would have to keep track of what everyone is wearing
[2015/02/26 15:47] Simon Linden: it would have to download and read more data
[2015/02/26 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: there are values for what everyone wears already
[2015/02/26 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: for land impact even though they're not used by the physics engine
[2015/02/26 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: at least not in collision sense
[2015/02/26 15:49] Lucia Nightfire: one day I'll have an LSL means of detecting idiots that attach laggers, heh
[2015/02/26 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: maybe in TNT, but doubt it, heh
[2015/02/26 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: sadly with this rigged mesh crashing sculpt laggers will be a thing of the past
[2015/02/26 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: as sculpt laggers have a visual that gives you a split second to react and/or lag if it doesn't crash you outright
[2015/02/26 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: but this rigged crashing is instant
[2015/02/26 15:51] Rex Cronon: sadly? lol. r u in love with them:)
[2015/02/26 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: and doesn't have any visual
[2015/02/26 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: yeah rex I love instant crashes
[2015/02/26 15:52] Rex Cronon: oh. i think u mean "love":)
[2015/02/26 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: you go to the same hell hole, you know what I mean
[2015/02/26 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: it happens there daily, heh
[2015/02/26 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: among many other things
[2015/02/26 15:53] Rex Cronon: haha
[2015/02/26 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: but those eventually start makign their way to other places
[2015/02/26 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: just like that bomb
[2015/02/26 15:54] Rex Cronon: we need to make some lindens become regulars over there;)
[2015/02/26 15:54] Rex Cronon: they would find so many bugs to fix:)
[2015/02/26 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, make them fodder for griefers
[2015/02/26 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: that will just make the griefers heads swell
[2015/02/26 15:55] Rex Cronon: lets bring oz there:)
[2015/02/26 15:56] Caleb Linden: hehe
[2015/02/26 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: whats coming down teh pipe
[2015/02/26 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: sorry it snowballed there
[2015/02/26 15:58] Jenna Felton: a way to encrypt and decrypt the connection would be very shiny, as much as a way to make a SL connection trough tons of proxies, so the departments can not observe what they untrusty people do in SL
[2015/02/26 15:59] Simon Linden: Sorry to run but I have a meeting coming up
[2015/02/26 15:59] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming this week
[2015/02/26 15:59] Jenna Felton: and we are out of time too :)
[2015/02/26 15:59] Jonathan Yap: take care everybody
[2015/02/26 15:59] Simon Linden: see you next time
[2015/02/26 15:59] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell):