User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 05 14
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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [16:59] | Patty1 Rosca: | hey Simon |
| [16:59] | Moon Metty: | hi Simon :) |
| [16:59] | Simon Linden: | hello |
| [16:59] | Simon Linden: | ah, finally have a floor to stand on :) |
| [16:59] | xstorm Radek: | hi Simon |
| [16:59] | Patty1 Rosca: | hi Ardy |
| [16:59] | Ardy Lay: | Hi Patty1 |
| [17:00] | Ardy Lay: | When one has a digit after their name should I use that digit when addressing them? |
| [17:00] | Patty1 Rosca: | *GIGGLES*:) |
| [17:00] | Patty1 Rosca: | *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:00] | xstorm Radek gave you Ieyla Adult Mainland homestead. | |
| [17:00] | Ardy Lay: | I have a neighbor named Francis7. |
| [17:00] | Patty1 Rosca: | wow red what a entrance |
| [17:00] | xstorm Radek: | i seen Ieyla again |
| [17:01] | xstorm Radek: | now Ieyla is a adult sim *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:01] | xstorm Radek: | from 1969 |
| [17:01] | Rex Cronon: | hello everybody |
| [17:01] | Patty1 Rosca: | hi rex |
| [17:01] | Ardy Lay: | Is that an oops? |
| [17:01] | Rex Cronon: | hi patty1 |
| [17:02] | Charlette Proto: | hi everyone |
| [17:02] | Rex Cronon: | hi |
| [17:03] | Rex Cronon: | xstorm, i don't think i can go there:( |
| [17:03] | Charlette Proto: | wow the lag???? |
| [17:03] | xstorm Radek: | *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:03] | Simon Linden: | Hello everyone ... I'm not sure if Andrew is coming today, he had some obligations today and was working an odd schedule |
| [17:03] | xstorm Radek: | i think not rex |
| [17:03] | Morgaine Dinova waves to the invisible people and heads off to make tea while they res | |
| [17:03] | Rex Cronon: | hi simon |
| [17:03] | xstorm Radek: | there is no ieyla sim |
| [17:03] | Simon Linden: | Hi Rex |
| [17:03] | Gregory Maurer: | hello people I can't see yet |
| [17:03] | Rex Cronon: | hi |
| [17:03] | Rex Cronon: | i can't see either |
| [17:04] | Charlette Proto: | *-*`````aaHahahahahahahHaaa`````*-* |
| [17:04] | Charlette Proto: | Adult on the mainland???? |
| [17:04] | xstorm Radek: | yep |
| [17:04] | Latif Khalifa: | time for a new perscription glasses? |
| [17:04] | xstorm Radek: | and its a homestead |
| [17:04] | Simon Linden: | So, I don't have any interesting announcements. The 1.26.4 update is chugging along with a few bug fixes. I think it's going to get pushed to the pilot regions next week, but don't quote me on that schedule |
| [17:04] | xstorm Radek: | Simon that pic i gave you |
| [17:05] | Latif Khalifa: | hey hari, the intern :D |
| [17:05] | xstorm Radek: | can that please get fix ? |
| [17:05] | Prokofy Neva: | I understand you have fixed the bug involving return of group-set objects by people in the group who don't have access to that power? |
| [17:05] | Hari Linden: | hi |
| [17:05] | Simon Linden: | Sure xstorm, I got it, gave it a quick glance. What's the issue? |
| [17:05] | xstorm Radek: | hi Hari |
| [17:05] | Moon Metty: | hi again Hari :) |
| [17:05] | Rex Cronon: | i would like to give a demo of a "educational" tool:) |
| [17:05] | Rex Cronon: | hi hari |
| [17:05] | Simon Linden: | Sure Rex, 1 minute... |
| [17:05] | Rex Cronon: | anybody interested:) |
| [17:05] | Latif Khalifa: | prok, which bug? |
| [17:05] | Charlette Proto: | what about the current TP problems, is there a reason for 'Public Viewer' to experience dead TPs or is it more likely a prob with people in europe? |
| [17:05] | Ardy Lay: | Hi Hari |
| [17:06] | xstorm Radek: | first simon there is no ieyla mainland / homestead sim thats adult |
| [17:06] | xstorm Radek: | and it says from 1969 |
| [17:06] | Prokofy Neva: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5491 |
| [17:06] | Charlette Proto: | education without Quality Of Service assurance - I really wish I went to school in Second Life" |
| [17:06] | Prokofy Neva: | SL isn't working well today all over |
| [17:07] | reddot99 Republic: | profofy, if they had permission to edit group objects they can return stuff through that process |
| [17:07] | Simon Linden: | So is there a jira? Is this the 'mystery region' thing I have vague memories of a few weeks ago? |
| [17:07] | xstorm Radek: | yes same one |
| [17:07] | Charlette Proto: | nice |
| [17:07] | Latif Khalifa: | Prokofy, its marked as fixed in the viewer which is strange... Dessie is the viewer release guy, perhaps he closed the wrong jira? |
| [17:08] | xstorm Radek: | i can not do a jira when spike says it was removed |
| [17:08] | Harleen Gretzky: | The fix was to make the text for Share with Group more descriptive |
| [17:08] | xstorm Radek: | but its not removed it is some sort of missing data or error |
| [17:08] | Latif Khalifa: | Herleen, ah that makes more sense |
| [17:09] | Simon Linden: | ok, xstorm, I'll note it and do some searching after the meeting. I haven't heard anything about that so there's not much I can add right now |
| [17:09] | Charlette Proto: | how about a way for me to turn my PG parcel into Adult hehe |
| [17:10] | xstorm Radek: | i do not know how to do a jira that tells people to walk off the sim to see this bug and error if they do not have the debug consel up and running |
| [17:10] | Charlette Proto: | I really don't want to move and never anticipated the new level of restrictions on PG land |
| [17:10] | Prokofy Neva: | well it is really a bug, indeed it is, I have repro'd it any number of times, there's even a film of it |
| [17:10] | Prokofy Neva: | Soft Linden insists it's expected behavior but it is in the design and is a bug, I don't know who Dessie Linden is |
| [17:11] | xstorm Radek: | half the problems im starting to see points do dead DNS addresses |
| [17:11] | Latif Khalifa: | Dessie Linden manages the release process of the new viewer |
| [17:11] | Prokofy Neva: | they don't have permission to edit objects, no, that is not the issue |
| [17:11] | Prokofy Neva: | they do not have the power in that group to access group set or group deeded objects, yet can, and can return them |
| [17:12] | xstorm Radek: | if the DNS errors are not fix it can casscade to a bigger error |
| [17:12] | Charlette Proto: | hahaso dessie let the altered pie menu with edit and detach burried to go through |
| [17:12] | xstorm Radek: | it will make a over run error on the database |
| [17:12] | Latif Khalifa: | Charlette, they reverted that |
| [17:13] | Charlette Proto: | have they - thanks the LL gods i absolutely hate it |
| [17:13] | Latif Khalifa: | you can check out the latest nightly build http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/viewer-public-nightly/120258/Second_Life_1-23-2-120258_PublicNightly_Setup.exe |
| [17:13] | Latif Khalifa: | detach and edit for the attachments is back on the first level pie menu |
| [17:14] | Charlette Proto: | ah nice, thanks, phew |
| [17:14] | xstorm Radek: | hi Saijanai |
| [17:14] | Rex Cronon: | hi sai |
| [17:14] | Moon Metty: | hi Sai :) |
| [17:14] | Prokofy Neva: | reddot how did you get your avatar to have fur that is so fine like that? is that prims or what? |
| [17:14] | Charlette Proto: | what a moron (non-user) thought up that change |
| [17:14] | Simon Linden: | I didn't know they were shuffling that pie menu. That sounded ugly |
| [17:15] | Charlette Proto: | look at 1.23.1 Simon, and try to edit or detach |
| [17:15] | Charlette Proto: | absolute joke |
| [17:15] | xstorm Radek: | Saijanai i have seen 15 DNS timeouts to day |
| [17:15] | Simon Linden: | The viewer UI is getting a lot of attention, but I'm out of that loop |
| [17:15] | Simon Linden: | ah, I'm still on 1.23.0 |
| [17:15] | xstorm Radek: | and its just getting to be more and more dead DNS addesses |
| [17:15] | Simon Linden: | Guess I should update someday :) |
| [17:16] | xstorm Radek: | Second Life 1.23.1 (119104) May 4 2009 17:53:10 (Second Life Release Candidate) |
| [17:16] | Rex Cronon: | hmm. |
| [17:16] | reddot99 Republic: | that's on rc0 too |
| [17:16] | Moon Metty: | isn't the DNS a problem of your provider? |
| [17:16] | Latif Khalifa: | xstorm, i did not notice any dns problems here either, could be your isp |
| [17:16] | xstorm Radek: | no the DNS are the https:/sim addresses |
| [17:16] | Charlette Proto: | the UI is getting messed up I agree and Benjamin and malbers ditched the Open Hour so good luck to him |
| [17:17] | Charlette Proto: | them* |
| [17:17] | Charlette Proto: | Big Spaceship hehe |
| [17:17] | Prokofy Neva: | how is it getting mixed up? And is Big Spaceship still working on it? |
| [17:17] | Simon Linden: | OK ... any server issues to discuss? |
| [17:18] | xstorm Radek: | like i say if people do not know how to read the debug console they will not see the sim errors and time outs |
| [17:18] | Twisted Laws: | the servers in the sandboxes seem to be runing well the last week :) |
| [17:18] | Charlette Proto: | I've experienced the DNS probs here in australia too so i don't think the provider in the east coast and aus are the same |
| [17:18] | reddot99 Republic: | do physics questions count? |
| [17:18] | Latif Khalifa: | Big Spaceship changes will be in 1.24 afaik |
| [17:18] | xstorm Radek: | the problem with group im's is do to a time out do to it dropping the DNS address |
| [17:18] | Simon Linden: | Sure reddot |
| [17:19] | Rex Cronon: | so, simon, when can i do the demo of the "educational" tool? people might find it quite interesting:) |
| [17:19] | Simon Linden: | OK Rex, as long as we'll still like you afterwards |
| [17:19] | Patty1 Rosca: | *GIGGLES*:) |
| [17:19] | Patty1 Rosca: | *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:19] | Rex Cronon: | :) |
| [17:19] | Latif Khalifa: | hehe |
| [17:19] | Rex Cronon: | that remains to be seen |
| [17:20] | Charlette Proto: | is it sex ed |
| [17:20] | Rex Cronon: | hopefully those of u that r here haven't lost your sense of humour:) |
| [17:20] | xstorm Radek: | you know it is a very basic debug console any one can learn how to read it and file a ticket on the bugs they see |
| [17:20] | Charlette Proto: | safe sex in Second Life" perhaps |
| [17:20] | xstorm Radek: | may be half the sim problems then can be fix |
| [17:21] | Gregory Maurer: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13228 |
| [17:21] | xstorm Radek: | please no one click on that |
| [17:21] | Simon Linden: | is this a demo of the sit / perms issue from last week? |
| [17:21] | Gregory Maurer: | (should be svc btw) |
| [17:21] | reddot99 Republic: | ah, the permissions stick bug? |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | take a look at centerof table |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | this is a nice version |
| [17:21] | AnimPerm Getter shouts: Prokofy Neva, stop clicking on me! Only my owner, or maker can control me! | |
| [17:21] | Charlette Proto: | hehe should have said before you pasted the link |
| [17:21] | Morgaine Dinova: | We had the permissions thing demoed at the last session. |
| [17:21] | Latif Khalifa: | please not another full hour for the same bug |
| [17:21] | reddot99 Republic: | thats what makes danceballs work, well, partly |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | it resets after aimatin avatar once:) |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | look at me |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | fbc19881-74d7-4c93-941d-78390c715dd1 whispers: Animating target[Pulp Fiction Dance]: Rex Cronon |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | fbc19881-74d7-4c93-941d-78390c715dd1 whispers: Targets camera(pos: <215, 38, 35>, rot: <-14.296680, -4.587220, 107.423800>) |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | fbc19881-74d7-4c93-941d-78390c715dd1 whispers: resetting... |
| [17:22] | Rex Cronon: | i was wondering if is ok to sell:) |
| [17:22] | Gregory Maurer: | If you have the ability to animate someone... you can cause them to play Adult animations in a PG area... and possibly lead to them being banned |
| [17:22] | Moon Metty: | are Andrew and Arawn at a private meeting , discussing SVC-93? |
| [17:22] | Simon Linden: | SVC-22, I think :) |
| [17:23] | Latif Khalifa: | haha |
| [17:23] | Moon Metty: | :D |
| [17:23] | Twisted Laws: | animation and track camera are the only permissions that continue... and its useful for slave things |
| [17:23] | Gregory Maurer: | yes, also useful for playing adult animations on people in PG regions and then reporting them |
| [17:23] | Simon Linden: | So this issue is on our radar - it was re-entered as a SVC bug since it's a security concern |
| [17:23] | xstorm Radek: | the gor sims have used that on people |
| [17:23] | Gregory Maurer: | I sent that as a SEC bug months ago |
| [17:23] | Simon Linden: | It doesn't seem to be a new issue |
| [17:23] | Gregory Maurer: | SEC-166 |
| [17:24] | Simon Linden: | err, right, SEC, not SVC |
| [17:24] | Prokofy Neva: | but you can only be animated if you click "yes" to the question "this objects wants to animate your avatar" |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | no |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | it's granted automatically to objects you sit on |
| [17:24] | Rex Cronon: | prokofy try it |
| [17:24] | reddot99 Republic: | a kill exsisting object permissions would be a good way to solve that |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | i have another demo |
| [17:24] | Prokofy Neva: | 02da98ac-3e2e-4e8f-bedc-d0e2a1c670b4 whispers: Animating target[Pulp Fiction Dance]: Prokofy Neva |
| [17:24] | Prokofy Neva: | 02da98ac-3e2e-4e8f-bedc-d0e2a1c670b4 whispers: Targets camera(pos: <216, 37, 41>, rot: <-44.114460, 4.831033, 85.035640>) |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | this cube |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | not rex's |
| [17:24] | Prokofy Neva: | 02da98ac-3e2e-4e8f-bedc-d0e2a1c670b4 whispers: resetting... |
| [17:24] | Charlette Proto: | well all interaction events and objects should have Adult (a rating) attribute |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | it is a full perm stealer |
| [17:24] | reddot99 Republic: | much like release controls |
| [17:24] | Latif Khalifa: | we discussed this at length the last time: conclusion was auto granted permission on sit should be auto revoked on unsit |
| [17:24] | Rex Cronon: | u wer animated:) |
| [17:24] | Gregory Maurer: | I have designed it so that on full inspection, it appears to be a normal cube |
| [17:25] | Prokofy Neva: | well tell people not to sit on things they don't know where they've been |
| [17:25] | Gregory Maurer: | However, if you sit on it and stand up, I will be able to animate you whenever I want, without you knowing |
| [17:25] | Rex Cronon: | also don't try to take it:) |
| [17:25] | xstorm Radek: | Now that was my point back in 2007 why its importent not to let the full user UUID code get out |
| [17:25] | Simon Linden: | We're not planning on rating objects ... doing land is complicated enough |
| [17:25] | Gregory Maurer: | You could cause people to play crash animations |
| [17:26] | xstorm Radek: | for if that can happen then people on a 3rd part system can do even more to us |
| [17:26] | reddot99 Republic: | wasnt that fixed? |
| [17:26] | Gregory Maurer: | And more importantly, I have thought of a way to use that to permanently ban someone from pretty much any region |
| [17:26] | xstorm Radek: | you can make them give you there real life money |
| [17:26] | Latif Khalifa: | Simon, do you know about sim related adult changes... my question is, the preference in 1.23 in the viewer where you chose your level, is that purely client setting, or is it transmitted to the sim and stored as part of your agent data? |
| [17:26] | xstorm Radek: | its a backdoor |
| [17:27] | Gregory Maurer: | no return, prim re-rezzes, with perms from asset server... unrevokable, and on a normal client they could be crashed |
| [17:27] | Rex Cronon: | to make sure everybody unerstands the one i made resets after playing animation, othres keep it forever |
| [17:27] | Charlette Proto: | I understand Simon but abuse of restrictions is very likely to increase simply as a response to the new rules |
| [17:27] | Rex Cronon: | i guess is oke to sell it:) since it plays nice:) |
| [17:28] | Rex Cronon: | that was all folks:) |
| [17:28] | Morgaine Dinova: | Note that the object may be practically invisible, possibly placed in front of something you want to click on like a tip jar, and not immediately animating you visibly. |
| [17:28] | Gregory Maurer: | Yes, and it can be taken back to inventory, with perms saved |
| [17:28] | Charlette Proto: | very good point Morgaine |
| [17:28] | reddot99 Republic: | also note that the seat curser comes up imediately |
| [17:28] | Simon Linden: | True, we'll see how it plays out as the new land gets populated. |
| [17:29] | Gregory Maurer: | You can create a device, that without land owner/linden intervention, 100% prevents someone from entering a sim... |
| [17:29] | xstorm Radek: | you do know that the linden money command is a simple command in debug that can get a caller script used on it to bypass the yes command button ? |
| [17:29] | Prokofy Neva: | well if you have only 5 percent of the world having adult content as you claim, the response to the adult grid may be ...underwhelming. |
| [17:29] | xstorm Radek: | a backdoor script can be used |
| [17:29] | Rex Cronon gave you Perms Stealer. | |
| [17:30] | Charlette Proto: | i think the abuse will be likely in PG zones once the restrictions are common knowledge, PG activities in the Adult zone are not the issue really |
| [17:30] | Simon Linden: | reddot, you had a physics question? |
| [17:30] | Charlette Proto: | wit till you see the 5% it is more likely to me 50% |
| [17:30] | Prokofy Neva: | people have always used a griefing tactic of luring a target into PG, making them swear, and nailing them for swearing in PG, it's done all the time, this will not change just because of the new thing |
| [17:31] | reddot99 Republic: | yeah, any idea on the slowly getting dragged toward one side of a sim? |
| [17:31] | Prokofy Neva: | yes I saw that happen today, what is that? |
| [17:31] | Simon Linden: | when does that happen? |
| [17:31] | Gregory Maurer: | Isn't that the messed up prim hits the ground |
| [17:31] | Latif Khalifa: | reddot, i have seen that, sim wide |
| [17:31] | Gregory Maurer: | causes ground to have "energy" |
| [17:31] | Latif Khalifa: | looks like the whole sim got tilted lol |
| [17:31] | Charlette Proto: | it will cange Prokofy as a response to the new restrictions, I have no doubt |
| [17:31] | xstorm Radek: | there is no proof any one makes people go in to pg sims just to AR them |
| [17:32] | Simon Linden: | That's funky ... would be interesting to see. Any idea what started it? |
| [17:32] | reddot99 Republic: | yes it is, gregory, i've seen it a number of times, |
| [17:32] | Prokofy Neva: | yes there is, I have documented it time and again |
| [17:32] | Gregory Maurer: | I can |
| [17:32] | xstorm Radek: | any way korea1 is no longer a PG sim *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:32] | reddot99 Republic: | and made something cause it |
| [17:32] | Gregory Maurer: | I can't duplicate it on demand... it's a bug with a mind of it's own |
| [17:32] | Patty1 Rosca: | its not? |
| [17:32] | Prokofy Neva: | anyway there is only 5 percent adult content we have no worries |
| [17:32] | Charlette Proto: | people don't like to be treated like kids - simple, some of them will react |
| [17:32] | Gregory Maurer: | I have the prim that has caused it before though |
| [17:32] | Prokofy Neva: | do you mean that thing that sucks you backwards along the sim? |
| [17:32] | reddot99 Republic: | i have a weapon that causes it, |
| [17:32] | reddot99 Republic: | yes that bug |
| [17:33] | Prokofy Neva: | if you try to turn around, it just sucks you backwards, you can't fly against it |
| [17:33] | xstorm Radek: | no korea1 is no longer PG people can be nude i do not care *GIGGLES* :) |
| [17:33] | Rex Cronon: | u mean when u slide when on te sim floor |
| [17:33] | Gregory Maurer: | Have to get everyone and everything off the ground |
| [17:33] | Twisted Laws: | i was given a script one day that if put in a megaprim you are wearing supposedly will make people do that, i personally have never tried and don't see how the script should work |
| [17:33] | Simon Linden: | I suspect I know that one ... there's been some lingering problems if you introduce numeric overflow into the physics engine |
| [17:33] | Prokofy Neva: | it's the magnetic center of the world in Ross, I bet, doing it |
| [17:33] | Latif Khalifa: | lol |
| [17:33] | reddot99 Republic: | numeric overflow yes |
| [17:33] | Gregory Maurer: | I had a prim that used to do it almost all the time |
| [17:33] | Twisted Laws: | it is all about numeric overfolw |
| [17:33] | Gregory Maurer: | this prim |
| [17:34] | reddot99 Republic: | i got it to activate with a exponential force increase |
| [17:34] | Gregory Maurer: | this prim has force just by hitting the ground |
| [17:34] | Gregory Maurer: | if I remove the torque |
| [17:34] | Simon Linden: | We've fixed some of those, but there may be more ways to make it happen |
| [17:34] | Latif Khalifa: | now that everybody is selecting it, its not gonna move anymore :P |
| [17:35] | Twisted Laws gave you Slyder virus. | |
| [17:35] | Gregory Maurer: | there it goes |
| [17:35] | Simon Linden: | right, and the selection code can get confused |
| [17:35] | Gregory Maurer: | no script |
| [17:35] | reddot99 Republic: | it also can cause the same to occur with large fixed prims that are stationary |
| [17:35] | Patty1 Rosca: | did you remove the script |
| [17:35] | xstorm Radek: | it had a phantom script in it ? |
| [17:35] | Gregory Maurer: | that prim works without the script |
| [17:35] | Gregory Maurer: | it's all in the shape |
| [17:36] | Charlette Proto: | shit |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer: | tube |
| [17:36] | Simon Linden: | can you pass me a copy? |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer: | tube twist 90, 90, hole 1, .5, profile cut .2, .7 |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer gave you prim physmesser. | |
| [17:36] | Simon Linden: | thanks |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer: | I also have another prim with the same effect if you want |
| [17:36] | Charlette Proto: | hehe don't touch or you will be orbited |
| [17:36] | Patty1 Rosca: | strange |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer: | different shape |
| [17:37] | reddot99 Republic: | simon, lemme get the script that can cause it |
| [17:37] | Simon Linden: | Thanks |
| [17:37] | Patty1 Rosca: | orbit tool |
| [17:37] | Simon Linden: | Andrew's going to be bummed that he missed the meeting if I get all the interesting physics bugs :) |
| [17:37] | Moon Metty: | hehehe |
| [17:37] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hehe |
| [17:37] | Latif Khalifa: | haha |
| [17:38] | Prokofy Neva: | I saw that one too, it's the way you cut it, it goes down in the water |
| [17:38] | Gregory Maurer gave you disrupt prim a. | |
| [17:38] | Patty1 Rosca: | tube twist 90, 90, hole 1, .5, profile cut .2, .7 |
| [17:38] | Latif Khalifa: | whoa |
| [17:38] | Gregory Maurer: | maybe it thinks it collides with itself or something |
| [17:38] | Moon Metty: | surprising |
| [17:39] | Moon Metty: | maybe the force is twisted with the object |
| [17:39] | Simon Linden: | yeah, the shape may be getting totally twisted in a bad way for the Havok physics engine |
| [17:40] | Gregory Maurer: | setting torque really high has an interesting effect too, on a normal cube |
| [17:40] | Simon Linden: | The similar bugs we've fixed occur when there's some numeric overflow, then an object gets some near-infinite momentum, and it just keeps moving along... |
| [17:40] | Gregory Maurer: | always seems to be like 0.0064m/s |
| [17:40] | Prokofy Neva: | doors do that sometimes, they just keep going across a sim |
| [17:40] | reddot99 Republic: | like the blitz balls |
| [17:40] | xstorm Radek: | the computer is not using the outside shape to do the math but the inverted shape in the center |
| [17:40] | Rex Cronon: | imagine what could happen if havok were to see the mesh of sculpties:) |
| [17:41] | reddot99 Republic: | shh, i want sculpty physics :p |
| [17:41] | Gregory Maurer: | like this cube |
| [17:41] | xstorm Radek: | and plus the script that was in it will stay on the server side even when it is no longer in the prim |
| [17:41] | Simon Linden: | yeah, those would need some careful checks to make sure the mesh was clean |
| [17:41] | Charlette Proto: | this may have something to do with the way one sits on the indise of the insideout 'tricky' shaped objects |
| [17:42] | Object whispers: | Current Velocity - <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000> |
| [17:42] | Object whispers: | Current Velocity - <1.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000> |
| [17:42] | reddot99 Republic: | i think its the normals rather |
| [17:42] | Gregory Maurer: | 1 exactly |
| [17:42] | Gregory Maurer: | east |
| [17:42] | Simon Linden: | Sitting does a ray-cast to the object to try and find the surface you touched, but if it's twisted like that, it can get confused |
| [17:43] | reddot99 Republic: | ah, like this bug : |
| [17:43] | Rex Cronon: | it should return the first facet it finds |
| [17:44] | Gregory Maurer: | Speaking of prim types... what are ones like these |
| [17:44] | Charlette Proto: | would the surface to colide with also become inverted and face the wrong direction hence act in the opposite manner? |
| [17:44] | Simon Linden: | yes, something along those lines |
| [17:44] | reddot99 Republic: | simon, look, see how it rezzes on the inside instead of the out? |
| [17:44] | Charlette Proto: | the moral of this is a lot of people wasting time making inside out prims |
| [17:45] | reddot99 Republic: | lol, well thats one thing |
| [17:45] | Explorer's Belt (Male): 9.000000 | |
| [17:45] | Simon Linden: | sorry, what do you mean by rez on the inside? |
| [17:45] | reddot99 Republic: | carefull, that eats up prims very quicly |
| [17:46] | Ardy Lay: | I made something like that and used it to draw a clock face on this table. |
| [17:46] | reddot99 Republic: | look, it returns a touch pos on the opposidte side expected |
| [17:46] | Simon Linden: | the white trails? |
| [17:46] | reddot99 Republic: | thts from my chalkboard script i made when touchpos came out |
| [17:46] | Gregory Maurer: | oh |
| [17:46] | Gregory Maurer: | well that's not physics |
| [17:46] | Gregory Maurer: | it's because it has no outer side |
| [17:47] | Simon Linden: | what are the textures used on that? |
| [17:47] | Ardy Lay: | I would expect raytracing to select the visible surface. |
| [17:47] | reddot99 Republic: | none |
| [17:47] | Simon Linden: | Transparent on the outside, wood on the inside? |
| [17:47] | Gregory Maurer: | no, there is no outside |
| [17:47] | reddot99 Republic: | its inside out |
| [17:47] | Moon Metty: | is it a sculptie? |
| [17:47] | reddot99 Republic: | sphere |
| [17:47] | xstorm Radek: | menu driven so its prime shape is not what the people see |
| [17:47] | Gregory Maurer: | Sphere > Twist 180,180 |
| [17:47] | Moon Metty: | ok |
| [17:47] | reddot99 Republic: | but it works exactly the same with sculpties |
| [17:48] | xstorm Radek: | so if i put on BBox it will show me the real shape |
| [17:48] | reddot99 Republic: | yep |
| [17:48] | Charlette Proto: | yeah, I've seen it before it acts like a sculptie inside out but it is a sphere inside out |
| [17:48] | reddot99 Republic: | but this is much less massive then its normal counterpart |
| [17:48] | Simon Linden: | yeah, that's an interesting effect :) |
| [17:49] | reddot99 Republic: | by several powers |
| [17:49] | Gregory Maurer: | 0.654499 |
| [17:49] | Gregory Maurer: | 0.001250 |
| [17:49] | Gregory Maurer: | (linden grams) |
| [17:49] | Simon Linden: | well, since it's inside out, that's probably anti-dark matter in the calculations |
| [17:49] | Moon Metty: | hehe |
| [17:49] | Gregory Maurer: | *reverse-anti backwards matter |
| [17:49] | Simon Linden: | with a twist |
| [17:49] | reddot99 Republic: | also if hollowed it gets heavyier i think |
| [17:50] | xstorm Radek: | roflmao |
| [17:50] | Charlette Proto: | where was the prim eating part I never got it |
| [17:50] | Moon Metty: | and a little umbrella please |
| [17:50] | reddot99 Republic: | it rezzes prims very quick |
| [17:50] | reddot99 Republic: | everytime the mouse moves |
| [17:50] | xstorm Radek gave you Snapshot : Linden Village - Simon Linden, Denby (213, 45, 33). | |
| [17:50] | Simon Linden: | So, if we fix that and put some sane limit on the twist, are we going to break somone's expensive content? |
| [17:51] | reddot99 Republic: | yes |
| [17:51] | reddot99 Republic: | it would, most danceballs, all cell shading |
| [17:51] | Ardy Lay: | Many globes |
| [17:51] | Rex Cronon: | i think lots of products have weird twiwst values in them |
| [17:51] | reddot99 Republic: | erm, not danceballs but those ligh effect things |
| [17:51] | Ardy Lay: | "holographic" effects |
| [17:51] | Gregory Maurer: | you can make spheres hollow, transparent on outside, but won't go as far |
| [17:52] | Charlette Proto: | did it rez I thought that like an insideout sculptie it appears to the camera as if though we were inside except the hidden face removal still works so you look inside |
| [17:52] | reddot99 Republic: | yeah, its because sl only uses onesided faces |
| [17:52] | Ardy Lay: | Example rezzed |
| [17:52] | Simon Linden: | hmm, ok, so the odd or bad behavior I see then is that touches don't happen on the surfaces you'd expect, and physics is getting confused with some odd results for mass and probably volume |
| [17:52] | Gregory Maurer: | actually that example uses hollow |
| [17:53] | reddot99 Republic: | that in and off itself would solve the problems for raytracing, |
| [17:53] | reddot99 Republic: | i remember that poser used to have the same troubles |
| [17:53] | Ardy Lay: | You may be correct as I didn't make that one but the maker demonstrated a method using twists. |
| [17:53] | Charlette Proto: | looks at the poseball looking spheres behind her hehe |
| [17:53] | reddot99 Republic: | that uses twist and hollow |
| [17:54] | Moon Metty: | whoah, my camera didn't like that |
| [17:54] | reddot99 Republic: | hence the cell shading effect |
| [17:54] | Rex Cronon: | -180, -180 twist seems to have the same effect |
| [17:55] | Charlette Proto: | raytracing is used for selection too so crashing the viewer could possibli result with certain prims |
| [17:55] | reddot99 Republic: | it is |
| [17:55] | reddot99 Republic: | no, it doesnt, ive tested that exstensively, |
| [17:55] | Charlette Proto: | hehe don't touch |
| [17:56] | Rex Cronon: | thanks xstorm |
| [17:56] | xstorm Radek: | :-) |
| [17:56] | Simon Linden: | Those a great, thanks for showing them |
| [17:56] | Simon Linden: | err, brain vs. typing... "Those are great..." |
| [17:56] | Charlette Proto: | was that the education tools demo hehe |
| [17:57] | Rex Cronon: | show and tell:) |
| [17:57] | Simon Linden: | Time's winding down ... any last topics or questions? |
| [17:57] | reddot99 Republic gave you physics strange. | |
| [17:57] | reddot99 Republic: | theres the script from earlier |
| [17:57] | Charlette Proto: | the TPs will they improve soon? |
| [17:57] | Simon Linden: | got it, thanks |
| [17:57] | Latif Khalifa: | is SVC-22 fixed :P |
| [17:58] | Morgaine Dinova: | lol |
| [17:58] | xstorm Radek: | yes yes we need a sim just for testing in such as a Linden lab test sandbox |
| [17:58] | Charlette Proto: | I haven't had a prob in 1.23.1 but Public users have failed TPs |
| [17:58] | Moon Metty: | :) |
| [17:58] | Simon Linden: | Charlette - are the problems you |
| [17:58] | Rex Cronon: | no, it is "educational" becase is abased on the principle that once u get burn ed u don't touch th hot iron again, i am talking about permission object:) |
| [17:58] | Simon Linden: | 're seeing failures, or slow rezzing on arrival, or both? |
| [17:58] | reddot99 Republic: | oh yes, what happened to crashme? |
| [17:58] | Rex Cronon: | did crash me crashed for good? |
| [17:59] | Prokofy Neva: | slow rezzing on arrival, failures, log-outs from world, scattered showers, bad weather |
| [17:59] | reddot99 Republic: | yeah, cant find it anywhere, |
| [17:59] | Charlette Proto: | no arrival, similar to ending up 6m to the east of destination like we have seen for a while now |
| [17:59] | Simon Linden: | The region crashme? I dunno ... one of our QA people watched that, he might have gotten busy with other stuff |
| [17:59] | Charlette Proto: | missing attachments to and curiously for the same users |
| [17:59] | Simon Linden: | Charlette - so you arrive, but end up in the wrong place and sometimes with missing stuff? |
| [17:59] | Charlette Proto: | too* |
| [17:59] | reddot99 Republic: | i think it said send phhysics to phillip, |
| [18:00] | xstorm Radek: | philip linden ? |
| [18:00] | Prokofy Neva: | logs you out all the time |
| [18:00] | Prokofy Neva: | you don't arrive at the region's actual set landing point |
| [18:00] | reddot99 Republic: | may have been out of date, but now i dont have anywhere to test things i'm not sure of the safety of |
| [18:00] | Simon Linden: | There are a few people looking at TP problems now, and from what I heard most of the problems were being caused by packet loss and network glitches |
| [18:00] | xstorm Radek: | i found a pilip linden prim in the sea and i had to move it out of the water it had turn green |
| [18:01] | Latif Khalifa: | yes, 1.26 sim seems to be extra slow when you teleport in, it can take 5 minutes for all avatars to show |
| [18:01] | xstorm Radek: | i need to tell philip about his green prims |
| [18:01] | Prokofy Neva: | wow, did it get covered with algae in the Omidyar sea? |
| [18:01] | Charlette Proto: | but could the packet loss be at the server end since I've had users reset router/modems and it doesn't help |
| [18:01] | Moon Metty: | good thing it wasn't Torley's prim |
| [18:02] | reddot99 Republic: | oh, and theres a popgun hidden in the sign in sandbox goguen |
| [18:02] | Gregory Maurer: | how long has than been there for? |
| [18:02] | xstorm Radek: | i will move his prims too if i find them in the water |
| [18:02] | reddot99 Republic: | months if not years |
| [18:02] | Simon Linden: | I agree about the slowness, I've seen that. I wonder if we're sending more data now for some reason or another,and that makes the packet problem worse |
| [18:02] | xstorm Radek: | *GIGGLES* :) |
| [18:02] | Prokofy Neva: | maybe you shouldn't move his prims, for all you know, those are the things holding up the entire world, if you move them, something awful could happen |
| [18:03] | Latif Khalifa: | it could collapse in on itself creating the first black hole in the metaverse :P |
| [18:03] | Prokofy Neva: | Simon, the world is sick, it really isn't working right these days, you can't just say "oh, your ISP's packet loss" - the thing where you land where the sim landing point is not set is new |
| [18:03] | xstorm Radek: | there is a problem but its do to the DNS problem timimg out |
| [18:03] | Charlette Proto: | would setting bandwidth lower be a solution to people with packet loss (I used to assume this to be so) |
| [18:03] | Simon Linden: | I didn't just say that |
| [18:04] | xstorm Radek: | its not just server side its may be a hub to the server |
| [18:04] | Simon Linden: | Is there a jira about the landing point issue? |
| [18:04] | reddot99 Republic: | lol |
| [18:04] | Latif Khalifa should make a sim on the edge, and call it Event Horizon :D | |
| [18:04] | reddot99 Republic: | lag, |
| [18:04] | Prokofy Neva: | Well, Simon, with the JIRA, one is burnt on hot milk, and then blows on cool water, so to speak. |
| [18:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | It looks like there's no house |
| [18:05] | Charlette Proto: | sometimes it is better to ask around instead of making extra JIRA work i think |
| [18:05] | Latif Khalifa: | Arawn! SVC-22 got fixed while you were away :P |
| [18:06] | Arawn Spitteler: | So, I cross a boundary, and the world dissappears? |
| [18:06] | reddot99 Republic: | i have one last question, who do i talk to if i need the xcode project files for the veiwer, i cant create them myself it seems, |
| [18:06] | Charlette Proto: | eg the packet loss is a very good point since the TPs fail for people who tend not to listen to advice and overlook routines like modem resetting |
| [18:06] | xstorm Radek: | hi Arawn |
| [18:06] | Latif Khalifa: | reddot99, mail sldev mailing list, or join irc channel #opensl on efnet |
| [18:07] | xstorm Radek: | ok i will make this simple to understand the DNS address of a https sim address |
| [18:07] | Gregory Maurer: | SVC-22 = Duke Nukem Forever JIRA |
| [18:07] | reddot99 Republic: | i've asked but noone else admits to using a mac, as twisted hd put it, |
| [18:07] | Prokofy Neva: | If I call Verizon and give them the information about their alleged packet loss when SL doesn't work, they laugh like hyenas. |
| [18:08] | Arawn Spitteler: | Nice thing about team-work, is having someone to blame |
| [18:08] | Simon Linden: | The packet loss is not viewer-to-sim, but region-to-region, I think |
| [18:08] | Simon Linden: | Anyway, it's getting late, and I have to run. Thanks everyone for coming |
| [18:09] | Moon Metty: | thank you Simon :) |
| [18:09] | Latif Khalifa: | thanks for you time Siman, take care |
| [18:09] | Becky Pippen: | Thanks, Simon |
| [18:09] | Morgaine Dinova: | Cyu Simon. tc :-) |
| [18:09] | Latif Khalifa: | Simon even lol |
| [18:09] | Gregory Maurer: | bye simon |
| [18:09] | Twisted Laws: | thanks, bye |
| [18:09] | Moon Metty: | see you soon |
| [18:09] | Rex Cronon: | tc simon |
| [18:09] | Simon Linden: | Take care, see you next time |
| [18:09] | Ardy Lay: | Part of the teleport process is stalling the sinulator causing it to miss packets in an overflowed receive buffer. |
| [18:09] | reddot99 Republic: | can i have the name of the person incharge of mac veiwer devollopment firstt? |
| [18:09] | Arawn Spitteler's grateful that Simon could remain for the tardy mention of SVC-22, SVC-93 and SVC-2931 | |
| [18:10] | xstorm Radek: | first the data software is sent to the server the server has a path that it use if that path takes to long to do the handoff it will do a runtime error telling the user software that it can not do what was ask then the user software then trys again the server will then try the next address finding the next DNS / https sim address |
| [18:10] | Charlette Proto: | makes sense Ardy |
| [18:10] | Simon Linden: | reddot - I don't know if there is a specific person for that ... viewer issues are likely to get more attention at some of the other office hours |
| [18:10] | Morgaine Dinova: | Take a copy of the SVC-22 etc line for Andrew, don't want him missing out ... |
| [18:10] | Simon Linden: | Arawn - I worked SVC-22 into conversation a bit earlier |
| [18:10] | Moon Metty: | :) |
| [18:10] | Latif Khalifa: | hehe |
| [18:10] | reddot99 Republic: | i cant make it to the others, it was pure luck i managed to make this one |
| [18:10] | Simon Linden: | yes, I'll mail him the transcript |
| [18:11] | Arawn Spitteler: | Yes, but the others are also tradition |
| [18:11] | Latif Khalifa: | reddot99 i told you where to contact |
| [18:11] | Simon Linden: | Right -- I still have to build some object that listens for those on chat and does something intersting... |
| [18:11] | Arawn Spitteler wonders what happened to our little Sheep Girl | |