User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 03 19

Transcript

[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	good news Arawn
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	I'm actually starting to work on SVC-22 this week
[16:03]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[16:03]	Kaluura Boa:	Hooooo!
[16:03]	Andrew Linden:	sorta... doing some cleanup that I think is a prerequisite.
[16:03]	Chaley May:	hi :)
[16:03]	Simon Linden:	Aren't you on vacation starting Monday?
[16:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Plenty of work to be done, cleaning up the code
[16:04]	Liisa Runo:	yay, i like traveling around with vehicles, and full parcels are difficult to detect behind border
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah thanks for reminding me Simon. I wanted to reiterate that today: I'll be on vacation all next week.
[16:04]	Kaluura Boa:	2 years... We must learn not to desesperate about old bugs...
[16:04]	Andrew Linden:	but Simon will still be attending
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	Well, this code I'm cleaning up is pretty old.
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	I've also been digging into region crossing code, trying to smooth out the lag / fps drops
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	The scope of the cleanup is a little bigger than I expected (hoped).
[16:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	There'll always be lag
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	yes, there will always be lag, but someday everthing we do in SL today can be nearly lagless
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova	waves quietly
[16:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	As soon as you quick and dirtied something togeather, you set the pace to do, rather than do rivhtly
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	that is, it will take much more "content" to lag it -- that is... in the Glorious Future (10? 20 years?)
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Adirondack Chair at <218.33755, 39.12147, 31.96597> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <214.27193, 42.96777, 33.28329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <213.77193, 43.83379, 33.18329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <213.77193, 42.10174, 33.28329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair.Array v1.0 at <213.27193, 42.96777, 32.20829> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <212.77193, 43.83379, 33.28329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <212.77193, 42.10174, 33.28329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Forest Beach House V.1.2 at <224.19403, 42.56335, 25.44287> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	Chair at <212.27193, 42.96777, 33.28329> contains an active script.
[16:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	1020 yeas sounds about right
[16:07]	Kaluura Boa:	"soon" in LL parlance...
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	hehe everyone is right!
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	I'm just in an optimistic mood today.
[16:08]	Andrew Linden:	Must be the vacation coming up.
[16:08]	Chaley May:	oops was that on whisper?
[16:08]	Simon Linden:	the sensor?
[16:09]	Chaley May:	oh i thought it was me maybe not.. i was playing with the height of my chair
[16:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	The one that listed each active script of each Simon Chair?
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	There was some worry that maybe Havok7 would be delayed until server-1.42 because people were worried that it might be too much change for server-1.40
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	There would be a lot less lag on region crossings if the cache worked well / was much bigger. Maybe applies on the server side too.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	however, I think we've got most people convinced that it won't be a problem.
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	We'll see.
[16:10]	Kaluura Boa:	The cache... Grumble...
[16:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	We know it's bad, but that's just gut feeling, not engineering. We need the cache instrumented, so we can look at numbers.
[16:12]	Simon Linden:	yep, anytime someone looks at a system like that, it's crucial to make sure you have the right info so you spend time on the real problems
[16:12]	Simon Linden:	I've found a lot of the server-side lag is due to parser code and reading files from disk
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	Parser code? That's odd. You have to parse the serialization, not just unpack the stream from its known structure?
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	Not much news from me ... hoping to get the region crossing code into 1.40
[16:14]	Rex Cronon:	greetings everybody
[16:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Rex
[16:14]	Chaley May:	hello Rex :)
[16:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	Friendly Greetings, Rex
[16:14]	Rex Cronon:	hi morgaine, arawn, chaley
[16:14]	Ardy Lay:	Anybody looking at SVC-5387?
[16:14]	Snapshot to	postcard failure
[16:15]	Simon Linden:	Ardy - I haven't heard of that before
[16:15]	Ardy Lay:	Try sending a snapshot via email
[16:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds to be a client side problem
[16:16]	Ardy Lay:	Postcards from Second Life is pretty much useless as of the last server deploy.
[16:16]	Ardy Lay:	Happened when the server version changed.
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	I saw that snapshot-->postcard bug in the queue. No one is working on it yet.
[16:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Has someone got a cat in world?
[16:17]	Ardy Lay:	If it's in the queue than I guess that's all I can ask for at the moment.
[16:17]	RedMokum Bravin:	Well client side or not, it doesn't work from Emerald either. But maybe it's due to the size of a high res snapshot?
[16:17]	Rex Cronon:	i guess u can no longer say: Hey, look what cool things r here. Come and see for yourself
[16:17]	Ardy Lay:	Nah, try it. Don't just guess. :-)
[16:17]	Rex Cronon:	:(
[16:17]	Liisa Runo:	yea we have cats here: i have Kal, and Chaley have Money
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, and I think the priority was set pretty high: Major or Critical. It's above alot of other bugs.
[16:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think it's expensive, if we can't send greeting cards, from SLRR
[16:19]	Ardy Lay:	Some snapshot albums are populated via email gateways so this has broken some people's workflows.
[16:19]	Liisa Runo:	oh! and Morg ofcourse
[16:19]	Chaley May:	my cat makes a little too much noise sometimes.. dont know about yours :)
[16:19]	Simon Linden:	The bug has been imported to our internal system but it's not fixed yet
[16:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	I hear a cat, but it's more talkative than ours
[16:20]	Morgaine Dinova:	I haven't used that email functionality. Is it local mailing of a snapshot image to some email address? The viewer implements a basic MUA?
[16:21]	RedMokum Bravin:	Are you still supposed to get a bonus if someone joins SL as a reaction to the wonderful postcard?
[16:21]	Ardy Lay:	Morgaine, I can guess that it's sending the image to the simulator at the error is an asset upload to simulator failure message.
[16:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think that's been cancelled
[16:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ardy: that's asking for trouble though, using the sim or other LL servers as a relaying MTA.
[16:22]	Ardy Lay:	I didn't design it.
[16:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	:-)
[16:23]	Simon Linden:	hmm, snapshot just worked here. Sounds like an ugly one that sometimes works and sometimes not
[16:23]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	RAce condition?
[16:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	Only works if you're of the Race of Linden?
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure how the postcard system really works. I've wandered down that code path once, but it was a long time ago.
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova	nods
[16:24]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hehe, "race condition" is a programming term for a bug that happens when certain events happen in certain orders, and trigger a bug.
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	I think the postcard gets uploaded as asset, and the simulator triggers an email.
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aha
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	But our email pipeline has changed since I looked at it. I think we now have a stack of email servers rather than emailing directly from the simulator host. Not sure.
[16:25]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm... at 640x480 it worked twice then failed at 800x600. I'll check my email now. :-)
[16:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	We should be able to tell from the SMTP headers
[16:26]	Simon Linden:	Me too ... I tracked down a bug in the postcard system a year or two ago but haven't touched it in a long time
[16:26]	RedMokum Bravin:	Well, if I set quality to 100 in debug settings it fails.... at 20 it arrives.
[16:26]	RedMokum Bravin:	So it's prolly too big at high res.
[16:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'll try
[16:27]	Ardy Lay:	Wow. I see the message format has been changed to eliminate the invitation text.
[16:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sounds like a Race Condition, then. It does not advance, if born too well
[16:27]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	What exactly is the problem again?
[16:27]	RedMokum Bravin:	No invitation at all, no.
[16:27]	Ardy Lay:	Now you just get the SLURL. The invitation to join Second Life is gone.
[16:28]	Ardy Lay:	I wonder if an attachemnt size limit has been added?
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Nice. I never actually used that before.
[16:28]	RedMokum Bravin:	But you have to, to "visit Denby" :-)
[16:28]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I might use this for some of my family members :P
[16:28]	RedMokum Bravin:	Hmmmm I was just thinking about adult snapshots to lure some.
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Heh
[16:29]	RedMokum Bravin:	And then the pay-off: "Second life. Your world. Your imagination" :-p
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I meant my RL family ;) I hadn't have a "family" in SL.
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	LL is trying to come up with a 3-year roadmap. We haven't tried to prognosticate that far into the future before.
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I hadn't? Where on earth did that come from.
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I don't* have
[16:30]	RedMokum Bravin:	I also meant my RL family Sebastean, but I live in Amsterdam.
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	Maybe sometime this year we'll publish some sort of roadmap.
[16:31]	Ardy Lay:	Maps are nice. They help y ou figure out how far off course you are. :-)
[16:31]	RedMokum Bravin:	A roadmap made by marketing or... ?
[16:31]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, once we chart a map that measure will be possible.
[16:32]	Ardy Lay:	Best laid plans and all that. No plan survives contact with the enemy. ...
[16:32]	Liisa Runo:	let a bunh of active residents write a roadmap for you, and then compare them to the official roadmap, and maybe tune the official one a bit
[16:32]	Chaley May:	thats the first time i ever tried postcard from secondlife.... works fine for me
[16:32]	Andrew Linden:	No, actually this is a roadmap from a technical group mostly.
[16:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	First time I've ever used it too. Ever. It also worked for me at 1920x.
[16:32]	Morgaine Dinova:	Received: from sim8846.agni.lindenlab.com (sim8846.agni.lindenlab.com [216.82.41.22]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 33si1032361ywh.106.2010.03.19.16.28.38;
[16:32]	RedMokum Bravin:	Ah okay. But endorsed by Finance then?
[16:32]	Ardy Lay:	Chaley, image size may have something to do with it.
[16:32]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I've tried 3 postcards now, moving larger and larger and all worked
[16:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Looks like the sim sends the postcard straight to Gmail
[16:33]	Chaley May:	i tried 800x600
[16:33]	Ardy Lay:	At 640x480 it worked twice then failed at 800x600.
[16:33]	RedMokum Bravin:	well, 1920x1057 doesn't work at 100.
[16:33]	Chaley May:	thats why i tried it :)
[16:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Mine was 1920x1200, 75% quality
[16:34]	Ardy Lay:	Encoding quality affects file size...
[16:34]	RedMokum Bravin:	I have chosen PNG in debug
[16:34]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm... I have Q=100
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	yeah, 4 time is a charm ... over 1mb didn't work
[16:34]	RedMokum Bravin:	:-)
[16:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'll try again at 100% quality
[16:34]	Simon Linden:	Not sure if that's the magic number or what, but smaller was ok
[16:34]	RedMokum Bravin:	Maybe we should be more bandwidth aware anyway.
[16:34]	Ardy Lay:	308K just failed
[16:35]	RedMokum Bravin:	10 more minutes and we have the sim dancing?
[16:35]	Rex Cronon:	i think there are some free email accounts that don't allow emails that have attachments over a specific size
[16:35]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[16:35]	RedMokum Bravin:	Rex: getting a server error right in SL in the beginning.
[16:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Failed
[16:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	Looks like 1MB limit
[16:36]	Simon Linden:	700kb failed too
[16:36]	Liisa Runo:	i tried too and got "unable... unexpected difficulties..."
[16:36]	Ardy Lay:	I am sending to gmail and charter, both allow large attachments and the error is in upload to the simulator.
[16:36]	RedMokum Bravin:	I wonder whether or not it is in the list of limits on the wiki.
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	I'll look at the logs. Perhaps there are some clues there.
[16:36]	Ardy Lay:	Okay. Thanks Andrew.
[16:37]	RedMokum Bravin:	I remember a griefer tactic of uploading a huge texture to a sim... to make it crash.
[16:37]	Chaley May:	i failed on this one 365kb 1024x768 100quality
[16:37]	Ardy Lay:	Sometimes residents can't narrow it down without that sort of help.
[16:37]	Simon Linden:	I'm down to 550kb and still seeing the error. It worked earlier with that size, I think, so it's not purely size
[16:37]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Back when large textures were still possible
[16:38]	RedMokum Bravin:	Limit is 1024x1024 now?
[16:38]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Yes
[16:38]	Liisa Runo:	yea
[16:38]	Morgaine Dinova:	One of the benefits of VWRAP (in theory) will be that everything is separate services, so that sims won't be doing any of this stuff. (Unless the provider chooses to)
[16:38]	RedMokum Bravin:	Sometimes old textures read 2048
[16:38]	Ardy Lay:	I heard that offering several large textures to somebody would freeze them up for a while.
[16:39]	RedMokum Bravin:	I wish I could enter somewhere 'never preview textures offered'
[16:39]	RedMokum Bravin:	especially when unpacking a box
[16:39]	Ardy Lay:	I see some 2048x2048 textures at times. Must be oldies.
[16:40]	Ardy Lay:	Preferences > Popups, Automatically view after accepting
[16:40]	RedMokum Bravin:	A woman who was complaining to me about her sim lag... appeared to be wearing the famous 200 piece necklace with a huge texture inside every stone. And a resizer script as well.
[16:40]	Ardy Lay:	Uncheck that
[16:41]	Jonathan Yap:	RedMokum, do you have a setting in your viewer under Popups to disable that preview feature?
[16:41]	RedMokum Bravin:	Thanks Ardy. I remember now I left it on because it also affects notecards, but you're right... ticked it off now.
[16:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Red: can't really expect non-techies to understand that. Until every item has a highly visible "cost tag" akin to a price tag, there's no disincentive for buying over-complex items.
[16:41]	Ardy Lay:	You can use the Recent inventory tab to find that notecard I guess.
[16:41]	RedMokum Bravin:	It's probably safer that way too.
[16:42]	RedMokum Bravin:	Yep
[16:42]	Ardy Lay:	Yeah, notecards openeing reset the camera.
[16:42]	Ardy Lay:	Very annoying.
[16:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	I suppose this isn't hte place to ask about llSetMoaP?
[16:42]	RedMokum Bravin:	eheh
[16:43]	RedMokum Bravin:	I still don't know where to ask questions about viewer 2.0 and its blessings.
[16:43]	Simon Linden:	I don't know much about that
[16:43]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Such as, when it'll be safe to use?
[16:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Red: Samuel and Nyx's OHs are best
[16:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Notecards opening shouldn't reset the camera, so either a bug or new feature Jira
[16:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	Arawn: I think that Reset Linden got fired when they did V2.0 ... but there might still be some old resets around ;-)
[16:45]	Memorial Dae	snickers
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	well, after a quick look at the logs I didn't find anything, but I could easily have missed a clue
[16:45]	Ardy Lay:	Pupeteering and 1st person view code make things hard for me to follow in camera controls. It's messy.
[16:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Or hopefully Reset Linden was moved to Finance ... lots of people would enjoy his contributions there :-)
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	Someone will have to just follow the path for emailing postcards until they find the problem.
[16:46]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, you saw the upload failure message, right? Has a UUID in it.
[16:46]	Chaley May:	just make sure hes not in charge of my L$ balance
[16:46]	Ardy Lay:	I'd guess that would be trackable.
[16:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	lol
[16:46]	RedMokum Bravin:	Everybody can send my av round the world by email.... hmmmmm
[16:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	This world ain't round
[16:47]	Liisa Runo:	^^
[16:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	Despite being flat, it *could* have circular topology like a doughnut :-)
[16:48]	RedMokum Bravin:	The mail doesn't go to THIS world.
[16:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	I meant, like a cylinder.
[16:48]	Memorial Dae:	doughnuts have an om nom topology
[16:49]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I do love donuts. I don't get to eat them often.
[16:50]	Andrew Linden:	No, I don't see the upload failures. Those may go to a different server. Not sure.
[16:50]	Ardy Lay:	Weird.
[16:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	sim8846 --- is that this one?
[16:51]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that's the one I was looking at.
[16:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep, this one
[16:51]	Name Pinger:	sim8846.agni.lindenlab.com
[16:52]	Chaley May:	lol theres a duck cannon on top of the tower and its controllable from here :)
[16:52]	RedMokum Bravin:	I wonder who is controlling the translator, rather.
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	ah ha! Simon helped me out. Yeah the failures are in the logs
[16:52]	RedMokum Bravin:	Moment of revelation...
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	some backend python code is crashing, and has a callstack.
[16:53]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I made it...darn system updates took two hours longer then I tought .
[16:53]	RedMokum Bravin:	Tech :_)
[16:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	2010-03-19T23:53:19Z WARNING: LLAlertDialog: Alert: Unable to upload 4c4d7157-72e7-9e4c-3b13-d41ce6a1030a due to the following reason: The server is experiencing unexpected difficulties. Please try again later
[16:53]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Everything is still grey...the sims have really been slow handing out texturtes.
[16:54]	Morgaine Dinova:	This was 99%, below the red 1MB error limit
[16:54]	RedMokum Bravin:	We were overloading the sim with postcards, Tech.
[16:54]	RedMokum Bravin:	Probably is cache puking now.
[16:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew+Simon: cool!
[16:55]	Simon Linden:	THat upload process is actually outside the simulator, so _shouldn't_ affect it
[16:55]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I'll try to copy the log info to the internal bug about the postcard --> email problem.
[16:56]	Memorial Dae:	welcome back
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see... Milo Linden beat me to it.
[16:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well done :-)
[16:57]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm... Morgain's email header said sim8846 was the SMTP exchanger of origination?
[16:58]	Andrew Linden:	Oh ok then we're still sending out from the simulator hosts. It is a nice distributed way to do it.
[16:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep. It was at the very least looking up the MX ... lemme check if delivered too
[16:58]	Liisa Runo:	yes rosie, we all can see that your hair is copybotted
[16:58]	Simon Linden:	That's probably right ... as I remember it, when you send the snapshot the viewer uploads the picture and some info, then the server builds the email based on that data and a template
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	It's failing right at the start of a function that should grab the upload, so something's funky with the request
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	So, if this upload is failing, is the image upload with an abuse report failing too? Uses a lot of the same code paths.
[16:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yes indeed, that was a Received: header, received by mx.google.com from the sim direct
[17:00]	Memorial Dae:	I just finished testing the abuse report
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Well, this is the visible point where it's failing ... I just sent a 200k image fine, so this code works _if_ the data coming in is correct
[17:01]	Memorial Dae:	i sent one in with a large picture, saying the meeting chairs are not beaver friendly
[17:01]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I've got to head out on time today. I've got to meet a group of friends at some bar. A good way to end the week.
[17:01]	Chaley May:	you look ok in your chair to me now but before i crashed you was eating table
[17:01]	Memorial Dae:	ok andrew, simon
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[17:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	End the week well
[17:01]	Ardy Lay:	Have a nice weekend Andrew.
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Have a good time out there, Andrew :-)
[17:01]	Memorial Dae:	thank you for your time today
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	And have a good holiday next week :-)
[17:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I can see it now, waking up in the gutter where the old compyuters go...
[17:02]	Chaley May:	bye andrew
[17:02]	Chaley May:	bye simon
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	thanks for coming everyone
[17:02]	RedMokum Bravin:	Have a nice weekend & holiday
[17:02]	Memorial Dae:	Money is such a cute kitteh
[17:02]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming and poking at the postcard system ... that definitely looks like something that needs attention
[17:03]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Postcard system?
[17:03]	Memorial Dae:	awsome
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thank you Simon, and great work spotting the problem.
[17:03]	Chaley May:	thanx i only him a couple of hours ago :)
[17:03]	Ardy Lay:	Thanks for checking it Simon. Take notes and have a nice weekend. :-)
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	Jus tnoticed you're sitting really low this week, Morgaine
[17:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, she's not Invisible?
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: one day you'll fix the sitting issue too :-)
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	I hope :-)
[17:04]	Chaley May:	this kitty cost 900L but what it can di is impressive for the price
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	One day I"m going to trash this table :) There's got to be something that's more interesting to use
[17:04]	Memorial Dae:	nice
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	I've come to the conclusion that sitting height of tinies on sculpties is essentially random
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	But didn't used to be quite this bad
[17:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is that a sculpty Chair?
[17:04]	Memorial Dae:	ya i can sit on teh same seat over and over and it does change by little bits
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Anyway, thanks again, and I hope to see folks next week
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Bye for now
[17:05]	Chaley May:	bye
[17:05]	Memorial Dae:	bye simon
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	And you, have a good weekend SImon :-)
[17:05]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon

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