User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 11 13

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Andrew not here? Lemme bug him..
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	and andrew.. hi hi
[17:05]	Kitto Flora:	Hello Andrew
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	hi arawn
[17:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	and there's andrew
[17:06]	Obi Woebegone gave you Physics questions of a general nature.
[17:06]	Arawn Spitteler doesn't dare ask Sindy about Sheep: Hi, all
[17:06]	Rex Cronon:	hellow
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	lol.. i detached it :P
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Hey everyody.
[17:07]	Sheet Spotter:	G'day eh!
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	The meeting has started already, right?
[17:07]	Ellla McMahon:	hello :)
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	hi sheet
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	hi ella
[17:07]	Slug Pet:	Touch me to bring up a menu
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	just three sheep to the wind so far, andrew
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	lol@kitto
[17:07]	range: Range set to: 4.000000
[17:08]	range: Range set to: 3.000000
[17:08]	range: Range set to: 2.000000
[17:08]	User not online - inventory has been saved.
[17:08]	Slug Pet:	Give me some sugar Rex Cronon :)
[17:08]	User not online - inventory has been saved.
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	sorry only salt left
[17:09]	Kitto Flora:	The maker wonders why these dont sell
[17:09]	Maggie Darwin:	No battery?
[17:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	is it a neptunian slug? them's good eatin'
[17:09]	Kitto Flora:	No idea
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	they're good with a little salt..
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there any reason they'd sell anyway but slowly?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	alright, the only bit of news I've got is that server-1.25 will be deployed to some small subset of the grid tonight
[17:09]	Slug Pet:	I love you Rex Cronon :)
[17:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	they're freelance slugs
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	probably 100 or 500 regions, not sure which
[17:10]	Sheet Spotter:	*** YAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY ***
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	they'll sit until next week
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	and then the deploy will continue
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure w00ts
[17:10]	Kitto Flora:	And no more bouncy camera?
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	can't wait!
[17:11]	Sheet Spotter:	Are there public release notes for server releases?
[17:11]	Siobhan McCallen:	looks fixed on beta grid
[17:11]	Maggie Darwin:	Sheet: Yes.
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	start here, sheet: http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2008/11/11/post312/
[17:11]	Sofia Westwick:	Thanks Andrew
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	hi sofia
[17:11]	Sofia Westwick:	Hi Sindy
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	heh
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	I've been trying to track down a permissions bug for the past few days
[17:12]	Sofia Westwick:	wow i can't see anyone
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	I think i've got a fix, but have some testing that remains.
[17:12]	Siobhan McCallen:	Simon...thank you. Looks like the fix you did for SVC-476 is working. I checked it today.
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	ew.. security thing or just a general bug, andrew?
[17:13]	Simon Linden:	Great, glad to hear it's OK
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	It is a corner-case permissions problem where objects may be left modifiable when they are not supposed to be.
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	Not a big copy exploit.
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:14]	Simon Linden:	I've looked a bit at the follow-on bug SVC-3187 but that one is ugly; I haven't figured it out yet
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	otherwise, I don't have much news.
[17:15]	Siobhan McCallen:	I talked to Prospero and Vektor a while ago...SVC-2133 looks like it got missed
[17:15]	Siobhan McCallen:	so Vek's going to watch it
[17:15]	Siobhan McCallen:	Prospero reopened it internally
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	SVC-2931, is there a reason that 54 meters is considered standard link limit for Avatars?
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure:	after 1.25 finally gets out, anything big planned for 1.26 or is it mostly bug fixes in the near future?
[17:16]	Siobhan McCallen:	but it's okay if it hangs until 1.26
[17:16]	Siobhan McCallen:	or a point release if the code's done
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... SVC-2133 needs to be fixed
[17:17]	Sheet Spotter:	The release notes for server 1.25 state SVC-3207 is fixed. I believe it also fixes the original SVC-3017.
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	I think there may be a server-1.25-1 patch release
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	if I actually fix a permissions bug it would go into the .1 patch
[17:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	damn.got the wrong number
[17:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	2133 isn't the one I meant
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	too late! you only get one.. next!
[17:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	nuts.
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	otherwise... 1.26 pick up whatever has been merged in already. Not sure what is in there right now... not much of what I've done.
[17:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	2133 IS the one I meant...damn numbers are confuzzling me
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	We've got a main-server branch that should go into the QA pipeline in the hopes that it could get into 1.26
[17:19]	Simon Linden:	There are a few more minor speed-ups that should make it into 1.26
[17:19]	Kitto Flora:	Speed ups in what, Simon?
[17:19]	Sindy Tsure:	sims!
[17:20]	Simon Linden:	The XML parser again ... 1.26 should be almost 2x as fast parsing as 1.23
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	wow!
[17:20]	Simon Linden:	Hopefully that will make rezzing, TP and region crossing a little better
[17:20]	Siobhan McCallen:	Karen says she HAS the code for 2133, and it's been hanging fire since before 1.22. Prospero and Vek think it just got lost
[17:20]	Kitto Flora:	Thats good
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	Karen who?
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	sorry, Kelly
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	not looking at the window
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	bleh. got a headache the size of rhode island
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	Oh hrm... kelly is on an extended vacation.
[17:21]	Maggie Darwin:	"I do not know what simulator version this change will be in, but probably not this next one (1.22)." --Kelly back in May
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	might be why it hasn't been applied
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	Did they say they had fixed it already and checked it into some branch?
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	vek said he's going to personally watch over it
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	The web page says it went in Havok4-6, which was merged a long time ago
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	I gave him an example product that's affected
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	it's still broken as of yesterday on 1.25
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	So it sounds like that didn't really fix it
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	oh I see... fix pending, and assigned to Kelly
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	so, it probably made its way into some branch
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	the question is just which one
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	I'll see if I can dig into our internal virtual paperwork...
[17:23]	Maggie Darwin:	Kelly *describes* a fix, doesn't say it was ever actually *written*
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	yeah, but it's marked "fix pending" and mentions an internal branch. That shouldn't happen unless he submitted some code
[17:24]	Latif Khalifa:	the status is set at fix-pending, that usually happens when there is actual code :)
[17:24]	Maggie Darwin:	Yeah, you can;t say where you comitted it unless you comitted something
[17:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	What causes such extended leaves?
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	the comments in SVC-2133 are very old
[17:25]	Sindy Tsure:	changed to fix-pending may-8th
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	so I would expect the fix to have propagated into the deploy by now
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	if it is still broken then we should probably re-open the bug
[17:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	prospero said it was QAR-490, internal pJira was DEV-14375
[17:25]	Maggie Darwin:	Maybe the fix didn't actually fix it?
[17:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	he reopened the interla
[17:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	internal
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	Our internal bug was re-opened today, but it's assigned to Kelly, so it's sitting for now
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	the paperwork still goes thru, even if the problem doesn't go away
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	ah, DEV-14375 is "reopened"
[17:26]	Maggie Darwin:	"For what it's worth, this bug has become worse in the last server patch." says Cheshyr
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	somebody reopen SVC-2311 please
[17:27]	Siobhan McCallen:	fix pending is still open
[17:27]	Siobhan McCallen:	have to close it first, right?
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	It's now "reopened"
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	thanks Maggie
[17:28]	Maggie Darwin:	JIRA is so whack in workflow
[17:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	i didn't even see where to do that :/
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, it isn't perfect
[17:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	argh
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	but it is customizable in theory
[17:29]	Maggie Darwin:	We use Bugzilla wheer I work, but everybody does their own workflows....bug trackers have always been that way
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	and we have indeed customized our internal and external jira
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	but, as I understand it... the customizations are not easy
[17:29]	Maggie Darwin:	We'll see what happens, Prok Neva has his own little WEB- JIRA to cuddeel now
[17:29]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - I added the code change # to our internal bug. There may be more than one thing going on here
[17:29]	Maggie Darwin:	"must be closed by reporter"
[17:30]	Maggie Darwin:	Well, JIRA is written in Java, you C++ guys may find it tricky.
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	alright thanks Simon.
[17:30]	Maggie Darwin:	Or it may just be crap
[17:31]	Rex Cronon:	how is jira written in java?
[17:31]	Maggie Darwin:	Badly, from the sound of it
[17:31]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:31]	Latif Khalifa:	haha
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't actually looked at the jira code (no time)
[17:31]	Simon Linden:	fwiw Kelly's fix has made it into our main branch, so there's some lingering problem
[17:32]	Maggie Darwin:	Rex: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
[17:32]	Rex Cronon:	thanks
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	there was talk of some llMoveToTarget tweaks a while ago - more damping controls and such.. any chance we'll see that any time soon?
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	Well unfortunately I'm still not on a bug smashing rampage. I'm hoping to get back into that in Dec sometime.
[17:33]	Maggie Darwin:	Runs under Tomcat.
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	Sindy, remind me of the llMoveToTarget() changes?
[17:33]	Rex Cronon:	i thought was using php
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	were they discussed in these office hours?
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	something to enable objects that move thru a serious of waypoints, for example..
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	oh right
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	the current way it damps makes it difficult to do that
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	that is a neat feature I would like to work on
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	yep! actually, it was the reason i first came here
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	but it is not in progress
[17:34]	Maggie Darwin:	Rex: Nope. The Wiki probably is PHP. The Blog almost certainly. JIRA is a Java servlet app.
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	My optimistic guess would be...
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure:	ok.. just didn't want you to totally page it out :)
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	I'll hopefully fix bugs half of Dec and all of Janurary
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	and then maybe try to write some features
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure also mentions http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22 while she's randomizing the conversation anyway
[17:35]	Simon Linden:	There's an associated issue where gravity does some funky things with llMoveToTarget() - I looked at it but eliminating gravity would probably break old content
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	I've got a few that I would work on before the new scripted motion methods
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure:	yep! http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2441 , simon!
[17:36]	Simon Linden:	I think I need a version of that sheep generator that works on specific jira numbers
[17:36]	Maggie Darwin:	Rex: Java Incident Reporting Application is a probable acronym.
[17:36]	Siobhan McCallen:	a lot of devices use gravity
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-22 is not so much a small bug fix as it is a full project
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure:	sheep generator!
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	but it might fall into my late Janurary or February efforts.
[17:36]	Rex Cronon:	ha. ha. ha:)
[17:37]	Maggie Darwin:	So it should become a meta issue?
[17:37]	Latif Khalifa:	who works on backend services, ie. is there any movement on bugs that people feel most everu day related to groups, group im, and related?
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	that is, the solution to SVC-22 will require a significant amount fo code and design
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	:\
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	Latif, there is a team that works on emergency bugs
[17:38]	Siobhan McCallen:	we're glad it's being looked at, thank you, Andrew
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	crashers, permissions problems, security issues
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	sometimes I get pulled into that
[17:38]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, these are not really emergency, group chat consistently does not work ;)
[17:38]	Latif Khalifa:	for months
[17:38]	Latif Khalifa:	in big groupo
[17:39]	Latif Khalifa:	groups*
[17:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	Are we talking about, how my cranky bank won't fly, unless I make a box of siz prims?
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, do you know about any team working on group IM chat right now?
[17:40]	Simon Linden:	No, I don't
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	I've heard people talking about it months ago, but haven't overheard any conversations about it recently.
[17:40]	Maggie Darwin:	Andrew, if you should hear somebody say that a gadget named "Inner Strength" suddenly breaks under 1.25...it's true. The developer is MIA. And the bug is you launch an effect or attack and then can't shut it off.
[17:40]	Ellla McMahon:	sort of connnect http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5529 what is maint-viewer-11
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	is the problem there mostly figuring out who to include in the session?
[17:40]	Ellla McMahon:	*connected
[17:41]	Maggie Darwin:	I think that whoe situation may be very different after FJ gets some of his infrastructure improvements in
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	meh, it's hard to pay attention to all the projects people are working on
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	Me too ... we should probably ping someone on that, or find out what the status is
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	maint-viewer-11 is a code branch with viewer bug fixes
[17:42]	Siobhan McCallen:	is that group chat scroll bug related to the problem where your inventory scrolls out of control when you clear the search bar?
[17:42]	Ellla McMahon:	the scrolling has got alot worse in the latest BSI, I wonder if its connected to the fix pending for vwr-5529
[17:42]	Ellla McMahon:	no this is just chat Siobhan, Group, IM and Local
[17:42]	Latif Khalifa:	Ella, no this is not a viewer bug I am talking about, I am talking about "unable to send group im" error that pops out almost everytime for certain groups
[17:43]	Latif Khalifa:	something to do with group servers being partitioned on group uuid
[17:43]	Ellla McMahon:	yes sorry :(
[17:43]	Simon Linden:	Latif, do you know the jira number for that?
[17:43]	Latif Khalifa:	which makes some of them really overloaded
[17:43]	Siobhan McCallen:	oh, you mean the bug that you type a message, and 30 seconds later it pops up with "group error could not send message try again later", but posts it anyway most of the time?
[17:43]	Latif Khalifa:	that one yes
[17:43]	Latif Khalifa:	we,,
[17:43]	Siobhan McCallen:	god that's annoying
[17:44]	Latif Khalifa:	well it does not post most of the time
[17:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	seems to post mine about 3/4 of the time
[17:44]	Sindy Tsure:	i see that message a lot on some groups that only have a few hundred members.. never seen it on Help Island, which has over 3k members..
[17:44]	Latif Khalifa:	i am trying to lookup jira, there were dozens of reports
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think it just responds to the lag
[17:44]	Ellla McMahon:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1509
[17:45]	Maggie Darwin:	"Error message when starting group IM session"
[17:45]	Latif Khalifa:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1298
[17:45]	Latif Khalifa:	there are litteraly dozens of reports on this
[17:45]	Maggie Darwin:	Not quite the same as "group chat dosghit slow and out of order and messages fail"
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, and that bug entry is pretty old.
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	There is an internal version of it
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-513 might be closer..
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - DEV-6549?
[17:46]	Siobhan McCallen:	vwr-1297
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah
[17:47]	Latif Khalifa:	Sindy, yeah VWR-513 descibes it well
[17:47]	Simon Linden:	Well, we know who to bug now :)
[17:47]	Maggie Darwin:	Yeah...people do goofy things with dup.
[17:47]	Latif Khalifa:	none of these bugs are really VWR ;)
[17:47]	Siobhan McCallen:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1297
[17:47]	Latif Khalifa:	they should be SVC- ;)
[17:47]	Maggie Darwin:	VWR-1297 is actually a better JIRA than the ones it's duoed to
[17:48]	Latif Khalifa:	well that bug, bugs me the most :)
[17:48]	Maggie Darwin:	That's one big crack things fall down....when it's not obvious whether things are VWR or SVC...or are both
[17:48]	Latif Khalifa:	we have "Advanced scripters of second life" which is useless as a help forum because of it
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, well I'll try to ask around and see who knows about group chat, and who should be working on it.
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure has suggested a number of times that the forums get a JIRA section, so people could talk about issues before clogging up jira
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure really doesn't like jira for conversations.. :)
[17:50]	Siobhan McCallen thinks there should be a damage-enabled arena someplace for fighting over bugs before putting them in the JIRA
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:50]	Maggie Darwin:	SVC-2743 is a perfect example of a problem that langushed as VWR for ages before I convinced folks the real problem was server-side
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	well, jira is a crucial bug-specific place where relevant information should go
[17:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	Isn't Jira for Flame Wars?
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	absolutely, andrew. i just meant somewhere where people could do a little triage first
[17:50]	Siobhan McCallen:	that's what the arena would be for
[17:50]	Rex Cronon:	figure out how to connect sl to wow and u can have a fighting arena
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	If I go up to another LL dev and start talking about some bug, they will almost always ask for the jira #
[17:51]	Rex Cronon:	:)
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	770
[17:51]	Maggie Darwin:	You *have* to have something like JIRA
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	so the jira serves as a central location to store the relevant information
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure agrees
[17:51]	Siobhan McCallen:	yeah, absolutely need some kind of ticket number system
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure:	and something that ties to source control
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	there are so many issues, it is hard to keep them all filed correctly in your brain.
[17:52]	Maggie Darwin:	The workflows are sometimes a little rough
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	i meant a place where people can say "is this VWR or SVC" or "has this been reported 20 times before" and stuff like that
[17:52]	Ryozu Kojima:	Hey guys, got an announcement to make when there's time
[17:52]	Siobhan McCallen:	but it'd stillb e great to tell the people who argue to take it to the circle and dance it out
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	heya ryozu!!
[17:53]	Siobhan McCallen:	hi ryozu
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	Ryozu, go ahead and announce it.
[17:53]	Siobhan McCallen:	rut roh
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:53]	Ryozu Kojima:	Unfortunatly, due to the new sim pricing plans, Content to Hover won't be around much longer
[17:53]	Maggie Darwin:	Actually that happens in the JIRA, because it's nearly impossible to find anyting, You have two or three people who spend a lot of time closing dups
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	The VWR and SVC division is probably extra fluff ... we certainly need to figure out where the bug is, but shouldn't really require a different name tag
[17:53]	Maggie Darwin:	Sometimes they go overboard though
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, so we'll have to find another region.
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	sorry to hear that, ryozu :( it's a really neat place!
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	you're welcome to meet in Harrington, Andrew
[17:54]	Ryozu Kojima:	Sorry about that, just can't afford to keep it around
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	I'll try to hunt something down tomorrow.
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	try Q
[17:54]	Maggie Darwin:	There is *something* that is causing attacments with no-copy content, like AOs, to get lost
[17:54]	Maggie Darwin:	And there are *zillions* of JIRA reports
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	but I'm sorry to hear about that, Ryozu
[17:54]	Kitto Flora:	A lot of content will vanish come the new sim prices
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	No problem Ryozu, thanks for hosting these meetings. It has been nice and peaceful here.
[17:54]	Maggie Darwin:	Every stinking one of them has been closed "contact support -- inventory loss"
[17:54]	Ryozu Kojima:	So am I, won't get to really finish the build
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	I've got some omni stuff.
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	grid size has dropped 558 regions so far this month
[17:55]	Maggie Darwin:	But I'm convinced there is an underlying big
[17:55]	Maggie Darwin:	nug
[17:55]	Maggie Darwin:	BUG
[17:55]	Siobhan McCallen gave you New Grayson Station Welcome Center, Harrington (53, 233, 342).
[17:56]	Sindy Tsure:	sad news, ryozu.. its made HUGE progress over the last month, too
[17:56]	Siobhan McCallen:	there's actually an asteroid base just sitting with a table just like this, not doing anything.
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	Tell you what, I'll find a new location for next week's meetings.
[17:56]	Arawn Spitteler would never regard the grid size by sim number, while Null Sims are about: I've heard about losing inventory, with no copy items; does it get found again?
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	You'll have to check the wiki for the new location. I don't have it yet.
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Back to Newbiville?
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	No, not back to where we started. I forget where that was.
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler has fond memories of the Griefer Police dancing on the table
[17:57]	Maggie Darwin:	Only by going to support
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	well, simon has a house..
[17:57]	Ryozu Kojima laughs.
[17:57]	Maggie Darwin:	Do a JIRA search for "chimera" for example
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure noticed he ate all his ducks, though
[17:58]	Siobhan McCallen:	I'll be sad. I'll have fond memories of watching the sheep sail the waters
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	I've got some land, but it is in Wengen, right next to a WA on a frozen pond.
[17:58]	Simon Linden:	I got rid of the ducks - they were doing spooky floating stuff since we released Havok 4 :(
[17:58]	Rex Cronon:	u could use qarls sim, Q
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	mine go a little nuts too, simon
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, qarl's sim would probably work. That one is public?
[17:58]	Kitto Flora:	How about swans instead?
[17:58]	Rex Cronon:	yes
[17:58]	Ryozu Kojima:	Oh, and if no one has checked it out, hit play on your movie player and check out the ground
[17:58]	Simon Linden:	We could do it at my space, Denby gets very little traffic
[17:59]	Ryozu Kojima:	Won't be able to do that anymore, I dont' think anyone does it
[17:59]	Maggie Darwin:	We have a nice full sim, and a holodeck with a variety of meeting room scenes
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	cool!
[17:59]	Maggie Darwin:	New Grayson Estate charter: http://tinyurl.com/3cvdpr
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I'd like to find a low-traffic spot
[17:59]	Simon Linden:	In any case, please check the blog
[17:59]	Rex Cronon:	but u have to talk to qarl about it
[17:59]	Siobhan McCallen:	aw, cool Ryozu
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	is that words or matrixy stuff?
[18:00]	Ryozu Kojima:	Some matrix animated gif
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	nice effect!
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	time to run! ty, lindens!! cya, all
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	ty for letting us use this area, ryozu!
[18:01]	Siobhan McCallen:	cya sindy
[18:01]	Simon Linden:	Bye
[18:01]	Maggie Darwin:	Bye Sindy
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	bye sindy
[18:01]	Ryozu Kojima:	Good luck finding a new place, sorry about taking it down
[18:01]	Ryozu Kojima:	Take care all
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure poofs in a cloud of sheeps
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks Ryozu
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	bye ryozu
[18:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ask CG, if you can use Aric's Place
[18:01]	Simon Linden gave you Linden Village - Simon Linden, Denby (213, 45, 29).
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	how about we try Simon's place next week and see how it works out?
[18:02]	Siobhan McCallen:	whereever's fine with me
[18:02]	Maggie Darwin:	Sure.
[18:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Simon's should do. Else, we could sit on the rails at Jubata
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	np
[18:02]	Simon Linden:	Just need some chairs so we don't get tired
[18:02]	Kitto Flora:	Does Simon have a LM?
[18:02]	Siobhan McCallen:	but you're always welcome at our place
[18:02]	Maggie Darwin:	If we do Jubata I'll rez my "Hellbound Train"
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	maybe we should make a landmark dispensor
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	and leave it on the table
[18:03]	Maggie Darwin:	It can rez a party car...
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	Denby 213,4529
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	Hmmm, what's the best way to distribute a LM?
[18:03]	Latif Khalifa:	wow, a big sim :P
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	4529?
[18:03]	Simon Linden gave you Linden Village - Simon Linden, Denby (213, 45, 29).
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	45,29
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	kinda have to be
[18:03]	Maggie Darwin:	8675309
[18:04]	Maggie Darwin:	ni-eie-n
[18:04]	Latif Khalifa:	Simon, find it on the map and copy SLURL ;)
[18:04]	Kitto Flora:	I see a building there
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	right
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	alright, this hour is over.
[18:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	nice seeing everyone again
[18:05]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye all
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/29
[18:05]	Maggie Darwin:	OK...thanks Simon, Andrew
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	Look for us in Denby next week.
[18:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	thank you andrew and simon
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	Should probably try that before distributing too far :)
[18:05]	Latif Khalifa:	thanks :)
[18:05]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[18:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	North of Longfellow?
[18:06]	Rex Cronon:	have fun