Bug triage/2009-01-19/Transcript

Agenda

• [12:05] Alexa Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/2009-01-19
• [12:06] Alexa Linden: I guess I'll drive and soft can ride along with me?
• [12:06] Erinyse Planer: has been scrwed over repeatedly the last two days by the consistantly unusable database and its fianlly gotten to me
• [12:06] Soft Linden: I know we're conslting with a zomg expensive database specialist. Rumor was he threw up on himself and curled up in a corner for his first hour after seeing the insane load.
• [12:06] Erinyse Planer: so please dotn take offense if im irritable
• [12:07] Soft Linden: Sure thing. We'll stumble along Konaless. :)
• [12:07] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2546
• [12:07] Phillip Vought: but but.. its only little tiny packets of data whats the problem ;)
• [12:07] Alexa Linden: smiles at Phillip
• [12:07] Lovecraft Docherty: reaches forward and rubs Erin's shoulders.
• [12:08] Lovecraft Docherty: It took me forever to log today.... the site said the issue was resolved? what's up?
• [12:08] Gellan Glenelg: hmm. assigned, but not imported
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: so this one us old and yes
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: should be imported
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: it seems logical
• [12:08] Phillip Vought: terribly so
• [12:08] Soft Linden: Yeah, this can be imported. I think Andrew wouldn't have objected if he'd understood the explicit ban aspect
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: guys, let's stick to the triage rather than login issues which I can't answer
• [12:08] Moon Metty: hi Harleen
• [12:09] Harleen Gretzky: Hi all
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: Hey Harleen
• [12:09] Bridie Linden: waves
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: thanks for the triage
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3665
• [12:09] Dessie Linden: waves
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: I seem to remember a rounding bug before
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: does anyone else?
• [12:09] Moon Metty: 3665 is supposed to be fixed in 1.25
• [12:09] Squirrel Wood: yarr
• [12:10] Moon Metty: but it's one of the old mono bugs that cmae back
• [12:10] Soft Linden: Ah, Alexa - poke at sue before trying any imports. Looks like the internal jira path changed. The import tool may do funny/unexpected things right now
• [12:10] Squirrel Wood: 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 0+1 + 0.1 = 0.499999999999999999
• [12:10] Alexa Linden: ya, it's borked :p
• [12:10] Squirrel Wood: but: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5
• [12:10] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - it's linked. I suspect this one is explained by strife's comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3328
• [12:10] Alexa Linden: ok thanks for that
• [12:10] Alexa Linden: so I should tie this all together
• [12:10] Moon Metty: as long as lsl does the same as mono, it should be good
• [12:10] Squirrel Wood: but: 0.125 + 0.125 + 0.125.... flawless.
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: but you said this has come back?
• [12:11] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: does it make sense to tie to the original?
• [12:11] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
• [12:11] Object: 89:
• [12:11] Moon Metty: some old mono bugsfixes weren't merged into 1.25.3
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: Hello box
• [12:11] Soft Linden: SVC-3328 is still broken. That needs to be reopened.
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: then that's what I'll do
• [12:12] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
• [12:12] Object: 90:
• [12:12] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9558
• [12:12] Alexa Linden: well this can be tied to any other can't TP bug
• [12:13] Alexa Linden: since this is normally a situational issue
• [12:13] Squirrel Wood: unable to serialize all the scripts and other stuff on your avatar in a timely fashion.
• [12:13] Gellan Glenelg: there are a huge number recently - see those linked to VWR-9999
• [12:13] Gellan Glenelg: but may be related to load / general problems
• [12:13] Soft Linden: This will likely be helped considerably by LLNet.
• [12:13] Soft Linden: I'd leave it open for now, just mark it triaged.
• [12:13] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:14] Soft Linden: We certainly know that TPs are still failing. Several internal issues already.
• [12:14] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11442
• [12:14] Moon Metty: aha!
• [12:14] Moon Metty: i know that one
• [12:14] Moon Metty: it's the same as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5574
• [12:14] Squirrel Wood: Isn't that supposed to happen ?
• [12:14] Alexa Linden: would you say a duplicate Moon?
• [12:14] Moon Metty: the client is supposed to use one core
• [12:14] Soft Linden: Minimized, it's supposed to throttle back a bunch
• [12:15] Soft Linden: Just like when a window loses focus
• [12:15] Moon Metty: i think it is, only https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5574 has become a bit messy
• [12:15] Erinyse Planer: it seems the one tp issue though is only on the new series... and only after the server rollout....
• [12:15] Moon Metty: i suffer from it from time to time
• [12:15] Erinyse Planer: im wondering if theres a new limit imposed somwehre
• [12:15] Moon Metty: i hope it can be fixed
• [12:16] Moon Metty: i have spent a lot of time to find out when it happens, but i don't have a clue
• [12:16] Erinyse Planer: and the client can use more then one core but tis not suppsoed to max either or so ive been told by a few devs
• [12:17] Soft Linden: VWR-5574 seems to have fallen in a pit internally. I'll nudge it back toward triage for proper tagging, etc
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: I'll link them together and
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: jinx
• [12:17] Moon Metty: thank you :)
• [12:17] Lovecraft Docherty: it should use more than one core
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: lol thanks soft
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10744
• [12:17] Erinyse Planer: depends on how you set it up lc...
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: ooh
• [12:18] Alexa Linden: is this the one where if you scoll down the size versus typing it
• [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: atill repros
• [12:18] Alexa Linden: iit jumps back?
• [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: still*
• [12:18] Alexa Linden: thanks gellan
• [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - use the arrows to set it to 0.01 size... and it doesn't stick
• [12:18] Soft Linden: Gellan's repro is much clearer
• [12:18] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:18] Erinyse Planer: still repos turst me
• [12:18] Erinyse Planer: *trust me
• [12:18] Soft Linden: I'm going to copy G's comment up into the description so it's imported that way
• [12:18] Alexa Linden: I've repro'd before
• [12:19] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5888
• [12:19] Erinyse Planer: votes on thsi oen cuase tis really really frustrating
• [12:19] Soft Linden: This should be imported for viewer triage. It should be a very simple fix.
• [12:19] Soft Linden: The control's getting marked dirty by the input field, but not the arrow is all.
• [12:19] Squirrel Wood: scrolling down the size sends lots of packets... packet order is.. semi random.
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: next up is
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5888
• [12:20] Moon Metty: there's an echo in here
• [12:20] Soft Linden: This is ancient
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: ack sorry
• [12:21] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4524
• [12:21] Soft Linden: Is this still happening?
• [12:21] Soft Linden: The -5888, I mean.
• [12:21] Gellan Glenelg: I'm never seen that error, and probably wouldn't have pressed help ;P
• [12:21] Moon Metty: i have wondered about it
• [12:21] Soft Linden: For VWR-5888 - resolve can't repro, ask if it still happens?
• [12:21] Alexa Linden: I can try and see later
• [12:21] Moon Metty: it seems more logical to change the position
• [12:22] Moon Metty: just changing scale is something you never want to do
• [12:22] Erinyse Planer: easy to check give me one second
• [12:22] Phillip Vought: This one (4524) is intensly annoying
• [12:22] Erinyse Planer: yes still repos
• [12:22] Alexa Linden: 5888?
• [12:22] Erinyse Planer: yep
• [12:22] Alexa Linden: k
• [12:23] Multi Gadget: v1.57.1 by Timeless Prototype
• [12:23] Alexa Linden: back to 4524
• [12:23] Erinyse Planer: err not 5888
• [12:23] Erinyse Planer: the one on scaling
• [12:23] Erinyse Planer: that one repoed for me
• [12:23] Soft Linden: Yeah, this one's pretty annoying when modding like - prim based avatars.
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: Import?
• [12:24] Soft Linden: Hmm
• [12:24] Erinyse Planer: yes lol shoulda bene imported months ago
• [12:24] Soft Linden: Tough call, because it's going to be a bunch of work. It would be more likely to happen if it got more votes first.
• [12:25] Alexa Linden: Last Triaged date?
• [12:25] Soft Linden: A dev is going to look at this, look at the several days' work to fix it, and look at only two votes... :/
• [12:25] Erinyse Planer: soft how many?
• [12:25] Bridie Linden:  :|
• [12:25] Moon Metty: hmmmm
• [12:25] Moon Metty: i'll vote
• [12:25] Erinyse Planer: could score it 50 within a day :-/
• [12:25] Dessie Linden: can it be imported with a low-ish priority?
• [12:25] Soft Linden: No magic number. But a dozen or so at least shows people are inerested.
• [12:26] Alexa Linden: so I'll mark with a traige date and check back?
• [12:26] Harleen Gretzky: Unlikely to get more votes, it is almost a year old
• [12:26] Soft Linden: Yeah, but if it gets imported with a low priorty, it probably sits for a year and a half. There are literally thousands of issues at normal and high priority that would be seen first.
• [12:26] Dessie Linden: k
• [12:26] Erinyse Planer: all ild have to do is ask everyone in cola ccs sim that has ever had trouble modding their hair to look at it
• [12:26] Dessie Linden: thx
• [12:26] Soft Linden: Yeah, I'd mark the triage date. And if anyone here wants to stump for votes - it's helpful
• [12:26] Alexa Linden: k
• [12:27] Alexa Linden: sorry lag for me and jira
• [12:28] Harleen Gretzky: Looks like someone moved the next to SEC
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: the next is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-190
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: so it's taken care of
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
• [12:28] Gellan Glenelg: just from title, can I suggest that MISC-2213 and MISC-2218 *might* be related?
• [12:28] Gellan Glenelg: (to the SEC-190 that I can't see details of, that is)
• [12:29] Alexa Linden: I'll check :)
• [12:29] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
• [12:29] Erinyse Planer: wow if it was a security issue in the first palce how did it end up on triage?
• [12:29] Phillip Vought: Close as NMI?
• [12:29] Soft Linden: This should be contact support
• [12:30] Gellan Glenelg: erin, it wasn't - it was SVC
• [12:30] Alexa Linden: it wasn't at first
• [12:30] Soft Linden: the MISC-2213, sorry
• [12:30] Gordon Wendt: Erinyse, it was probably not an SEC issue when the list was populated probably
• [12:30] Gellan Glenelg: ok soft - I'll change that - and 2218
• [12:30] Erinyse Planer: before that even ild suggest a full out clean wipe and reinstall soft
• [12:30] Gordon Wendt: to get slightly off-topic for a second one of the many flaws with SEC is that there's no way to know when and why something is disappeared
• [12:31] Soft Linden: I'm sorry - I mixed things up. Which JIRA are we now on?
• [12:31] Phillip Vought: Sercurity through obsurity Gordon.. Microsofts mantra :)
• [12:31] Dessie Linden: should be 8245, right?
• [12:31] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
• [12:31] Erinyse Planer: if youre on 8245 soft i think somemthing is majorly corrupted in one of the install files about secondlife should never grey out
• [12:31] Squirrel Wood: M$ protects their bugs by changing the associated error messages on every patch day :p
• [12:31] Gordon Wendt: Phillip, well I don't want to sidetrack the whole bug triage but if you read sldev you know my views
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: Still a problem?
• [12:32] Squirrel Wood: try with latest rc ?
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: ok will do
• [12:32] Erinyse Planer: let me see if their on right now
• [12:33] Soft Linden: Per the crash log, this is from 1.18.3.5
• [12:33] Alexa Linden: if so they should update the issue first
• [12:33] Soft Linden: Ancient. Would be helpful to ask if it still happens for them
• [12:33] Alexa Linden: next up is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11514
• [12:33] Erinyse Planer: i just asked them
• [12:35] Erinyse Planer: im 99% sure this is a duplicate
• [12:35] Moon Metty: it's not the most severe bug, but maybe easy to fix
• [12:35] Squirrel Wood: I would say they need to check the sort order ?
• [12:35] Gellan Glenelg: they're saying that sort order does not persist across logons
• [12:36] Dessie Linden: no votes, and since it's not a severe issue, I'd say move on
• [12:36] Alexa Linden: more about what your sort is preset to?
• [12:36] Phillip Vought: this was filed right around the time all sorts of options didnt save
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: I tend to think can't repro
• [12:37] Soft Linden: This would be a great one for someone to make a meta JIRA for. If there are other JIRAs about options not saving
• [12:37] Squirrel Wood: cannot repro, still happening with latest rc ?
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: since I can't and I do have mine set to sort bt name
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: by*
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: ya, squirrel
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: I'll ask
• [12:37] Soft Linden: A dev doing a bunch of these one at a time might spend 5x as long as they'd take doing 10 related issues
• [12:38] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:38] Alexa Linden: next is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7158
• [12:38] Soft Linden: I say just mark the date on the last one. And I'll add a request for related issues
• [12:38] Gellan Glenelg: ancient
• [12:38] Squirrel Wood: I can repro camera "freezes" when not moving the camera for a long time in a busy place, then suddenly alt-caming somewhere.
• [12:38] Squirrel Wood: in the latest rc
• [12:39] Erinyse Planer: still repos for me
• [12:39] Squirrel Wood: changing to mouse look does it too
• [12:39] Erinyse Planer: very very very much so
• [12:39] Alexa Linden: it normally ties to overall performance to me
• [12:39] Squirrel Wood: I'd think of it as a cache issue. stuff you don't see for some time is stripped from the cache and then, when suddenly needed is not "available" right away
• [12:40] Erinyse Planer: i think the whole cache ssytem got borked soemtime around 1.21 .. and especially on 1.22
• [12:40] Squirrel Wood: It needs a complete rewrite, yes.
• [12:40] Erinyse Planer: my viewer hangs up allot of times on attempting to initiallize it
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: ask if it's still a problem using the latest rc?
• [12:40] Erinyse Planer: alexa it is
• [12:40] Squirrel Wood: it IS
• [12:41] Erinyse Planer: read up
• [12:41] Moon Metty: i don't have those freezes,n ot for a long time
• [12:41] Erinyse Planer: IMPORT
• [12:41] Soft Linden: I assume this is worse for people in areas with a lot of objects?
• [12:41] Alexa Linden: sorry, UI am lagging
• [12:41] Squirrel Wood: yup
• [12:41] Soft Linden: Any extra repro details would be great
• [12:41] Squirrel Wood: lots worse in busy places
• [12:41] Soft Linden: But yeah, should probably import. I think it's a dup, but can't find it right now
• [12:41] Erinyse Planer: theres at least three dupes of this too that were brought up in bsi
• [12:41] Gellan Glenelg: agreed soft - I can't repro it from the description
• [12:42] Erinyse Planer: if i could open explorer without sl thinking it was disconecting ild grab the logs of the discussions we've had on this
• [12:43] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2380
• [12:44] Gellan Glenelg: expected behaviour?
• [12:44] Gordon Wendt: Alexa, I've seen a couple about that, I think it's WAI due to the timing issues because of lag
• [12:44] Alexa Linden: for 2380?
• [12:44] Gordon Wendt: yes
• [12:45] Gordon Wendt: between server load and client lag there is no reliable timing that isn't effected by that
• [12:45] Gellan Glenelg: "According to Andrew Linden, as of SL 1.11, there is a limit on the number of temp-on-rez prims allowed on a parcel based on the parcel's prim limit.
• The formula is currently "temp_prim_limit = 0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 20", or 500 temp-on-rez prims, whichever is smaller."
• [EDIT 2009.02.02 - Andrew Linden] The formula is actually: temp_prim_limit = (regular_prim_limit - current_regular_prims) + minimum(0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 400, 1000)
• [12:45] Gordon Wendt: so it effects not only how long before the server cleans up temp on rez objects but also how long before the client sees the cleanup
• [12:45] Soft Linden: Specific steps for what they're doing would be great. Are they moving existing objects on, or doing the initial rez there? Does it happen every time?
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: NMI then?
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: with those questions?
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: .
• [12:47] Alexa Linden: Bueller?
• [12:47] Alexa Linden: Bueller??
• [12:48] Harleen Gretzky: Sounds good
• [12:48] Phillip Vought: I'll try and repro now that LL have kindly cut my void to 750 prims ;)
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: lol thanks Harleen
• [12:48] Phillip Vought: I'll update it
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: thanks Phillip
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: another older one https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4193
• [12:49] Erinyse Planer: /me3 comes back "grrrr" i give up. my bsi logs are way too long to find any given jira entry lol
• [12:49] Soft Linden: Sorry, yeah. Was getting pinged on internal
• [12:49] Gordon Wendt: Alexa, you can't blame me this week, I've been busy so my hands haven't been anywhere near the schedule :)
• [12:49] Gellan Glenelg: I've seen a similar effect if I try to drag SL onto a monitor running < 32 bit colour
• [12:49] Bridie Linden: neat
• [12:49] Soft Linden: Oh wow. User switching is a brave thing to do under XP even without a viewer running.
• [12:50] Alexa Linden: lol no worried Gordon
• [12:50] Harleen Gretzky: Happens with screen savers als
• [12:50] Gordon Wendt: and of course it doesn't help that the wiki has been unstable at best lately
• [12:50] Soft Linden: Yeah. this should be imported for maint-render
• [12:50] Soft Linden: Might also provide a clue about some of the other glow surface problems
• [12:50] Alexa Linden: k
• [12:50] Erinyse Planer: i think its an issue with certain nvidea cards. i never had that
• [12:50] Harleen Gretzky: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6962 was teh original on the agenda, since it was a dupe of this I put the older on
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: good call
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: thank you
• [12:51] Phillip Vought: well hell Gellan at least SL doesnt crash every time you move monitors now ;)
• [12:51] Erinyse Planer: good job harleen
• [12:51] Gordon Wendt: wow trippy snapsnot for that one Harleen
• [12:51] Moon Metty: nice screenshot!
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: and the last one for today is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11537
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: 48K???
• [12:52] Gordon Wendt: obsolete calls maybe?
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: man, I would cry if mine were that big
• [12:52] Erinyse Planer: pat pats alexa
• [12:52] Gordon Wendt: supposedly the viewer is full of routines and calls that don't do anything
• [12:52] Moon Metty: i think i've seen those message, but i really don't know what they mean
• [12:52] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - I have a LOT of those error in current SecondLife.log
• [12:52] Erinyse Planer: im guessing either obselete or else prepped for soemthing to be added
• [12:53] Erinyse Planer: ild ping a few devs before importing
• [12:53] Soft Linden: This should be imported and passed to Aura.
• [12:53] Gordon Wendt: I'm sure you Lindens can confirm that the viewer is essentially tangled spaghetti code at this point after so many changes and updates with patching and removing and adding every time
• [12:53] Soft Linden: Looks to me like her viewer changes for http inventory loading got in ahead of the server changes. It shouldn't log spam so much.
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: ok - will do Soft
• [12:54] Phillip Vought: solution : hurry up with the server http changes?
• [12:54] Erinyse Planer: thinks of the code mroe like a japanese hentai tentackle mosnter thats been fed a few too many times
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: as a quick update
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: for those of you that attend the Weds. triage
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: formally Bridie's and at her place
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: this week we will be moving to Bamber's new place
• [12:54] Erinyse Planer: wont make it this week sadly.... gonan be closing at my rl job again
• [12:55] Squirrel Wood: pastafari!
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: I will update the triage wiki and add his Slurl so you can all get there :)
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: it's a skybox fyi
• [12:55] Erinyse Planer: can you pass lms to the bsi group later please alexa?
• [12:55] Phillip Vought: dont forget a note at the box.. for people like me that dont read :)
• [12:55] Gordon Wendt: oh so we can all fall through the floor alexa
• [12:55] Gordon Wendt:  :)
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: so if for some reason you get to the lanmark but the ground, just fly up
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: LOL
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: shup you
• [12:55] Squirrel Wood: aww
• [12:55] Gordon Wendt: actually there's still no repro for that Ithink
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: that's why I'm giving the warning
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: lol
• [12:55] Gordon Wendt: *I think
• [12:56] Soft Linden: Otay!
• [12:56] Bridie Linden: is old news....
• [12:56] Alexa Linden: weeps silently
• [12:56] Erinyse Planer: hugs bridie and alexa
• [12:56] Alexa Linden: So that's it for today
• [12:56] Moon Metty: alrighty
• [12:56] Alexa Linden: Thank you all for your ossm triaging skills
• [12:56] Phillip Vought: Bye all.. time to get back and earn the money I feed in here
• [12:56] Gordon Wendt: group chat seems to be going down again, just an fyi
• [12:56] Alexa Linden: and see you weds. or next week
• [12:56] Dessie Linden: thanks, Alexa!
• [12:56] Bridie Linden: thx all!
• [12:56] Moon Metty: thank you :)
• [12:57] Moon Metty: see you soon