Difference between revisions of "User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 11 06"

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(formatted with Zero's perl script)
 
(removed some pre-office-hours transcripts)
 
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{|
{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|doode, stop
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:02] 
| Second Life:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Your 2 objects have been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Governor Linden near parcel 'Hanja  Welcome Area' at Hanja 254, 249 due to parcel auto return.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:02] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can see that the piece of ground you're standing on belongs on this sim, but over laps into the sim behind you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:02] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what's wrong Geo?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| mjd Amat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello dee :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when you cross the red line behind you - you'll sink there too
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| Dee Shepherd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi MJD havent seen you in awhile
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|some special needs man is trying to rape me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| mjd Amat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|quite a while
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Huggybear Hermit:
| style="white-space:normal;"|he has special needs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| colspan="2"|''Georgina Muircastle covers pixels''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then don't bend over
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| Davina Densmith:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Those flagstones remind me of when Mr Burns blocked out the sun
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Dee Shepherd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|smiles I hear you married
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| mjd Amat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yep
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:03] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woman
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:03] 
| Dee Shepherd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool happy?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for the tip
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| mjd Amat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|xD
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Yoko Zemlja:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Jasa
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Press it again and it'll turn off the red lines
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|now everyone can admire my shoes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Dee Shepherd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats GR8
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hee hee nice shoes!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| jasa Genira:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey yoko how are you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Ashly Genira:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oo great shoes!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|your shoes aren't worth any kind of admiring
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok, mr linden has gone. you CAN ALL STOP PRETENDING TO BE NICE PEOPLE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:04] 
| moog Petrova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|indeed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04] 
| foehn Breed:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahaha
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| Yoko Zemlja:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I am fine thanks ...beginning to feel a little sleepy though :) its 2 AM here :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| Dee Shepherd:
| style="white-space:normal;"|same old zoo I see
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow there is another Cadence here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Georgina obviously stopped pretending Sol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| kandy Kyong:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we have andrew linden here lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| Caidence Andel:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cadence the guy!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|never seen her so polite
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Tat!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05] 
| Tatiana Dresler:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey SIS
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05] 
| moog Petrova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i find it most disconcerting...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|still one Linden here, trying to fix our floor
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Unfortunately I messed stuff up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Tatiana Dresler:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey PAn....didint see you sis
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| kandy Kyong:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what on earth happend here lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Sugarplum Hermit:
| style="white-space:normal;"|don't worry Andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| colspan="2"|''Georgina Muircastle hugs grammy''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Turns out... Governor Linden needs to come in and fix it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| moog Petrova:
| style="white-space:normal;"|awww noooo the dodgy floor has always been a problem:( its like an old friend
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Joseph Tisch:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I wouldhave to get on kneew for that anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not at all Andrew...we love the new look ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Joseph Tisch:
| style="white-space:normal;"|: )
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| MiszRriona Belgar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|\-+i9
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anything owned by me will get autoreturned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the big dogs?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| colspan="2"|''The SLED PICAYUNE - Floor: Thank you! Your notecard will be delivered to you soon!''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ooooh this gap?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm not a member of the "Linden Content" team
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|PARTAYYYYY TAMMMM
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Huggybear Hermit:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okay someone either works in a warehouse or the got a heck of an echo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hopefully Governor will be here soon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| colspan="2"|''Sugarplum Hermit pinches Georgina hard and smiles''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WooHoo...we're going to get a Governor here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow Governor!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| Panza Eilde:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey, Tat. Didn't see you pop in. How's my sister doing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Lum Pfohl:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There's the floor up there!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| colspan="2"|''Georgina Muircastle hides''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gotta run
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| kandy Kyong:
| style="white-space:normal;"|awww the man him self never seen him
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| colspan="2"|''Davina Densmith faints with excitement''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If not I'll send Governor by after my Office Hours
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Cherish Darkstone:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Andrew!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| colspan="2"|''Davina Densmith SIGHS  AND FALLS BACKWARDS''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i love this dance
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07] 
| Panza Eilde:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks, Andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07] 
| jasa Genira:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey hughie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| Huggybear Hermit:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you look very natural doing it too Solomon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Yoko Zemlja:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wow ..I allways wanted to see Governer :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| Hughie Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|alright jasa
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Panza Eilde:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Looks like he needs to pee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| colspan="2"|''Sugarplum Hermit gigles behind her hand''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Andrew Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so at worst... will be fixed in about an hour
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| Davina Densmith:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No I fainted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Georgina Muircastle:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is this the happiest day of your life yoko
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| Solomon Chakrabarti:
| style="white-space:normal;"|do i mr bear?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Joseph Tisch:
| style="white-space:normal;"|was he that good looking?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08] 
| Sugarplum Hermit:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thank you Andrew!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08] 
| Yoko Zemlja:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WOOOOOOOO
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09] 
| Maggie Darwin:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, they bounce.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]   
| [17:09]   

Latest revision as of 19:39, 6 November 2008

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:09] Andrew Linden: Hey everyone.
[17:09] Simon Linden: they're interesting
[17:09] Siobhan McCallen: other than fall on us and repeat what we sy in hovertext, not really
[17:09] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
[17:09] Sindy Tsure thinks this may be a good time to detach her rezzer thing before we end up in a herd of sheep
[17:09] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Andrew, be careful not to ask a bout Sheep, when in God Mode.
[17:09] Andrew Linden: I got sidetracked trying to fix a floor at one of the Welcome Area's
[17:09] Siobhan McCallen: hello Andrew
[17:09] Sindy Tsure: heya andrew
[17:09] Andrew Linden: but I only messed it up insttead
[17:09] Siobhan McCallen: good idea sindy
[17:09] Sindy Tsure: d'oh
[17:09] Maggie Darwin: sheep sheep sheep, that's all anybody talks about
[17:10] Rex Cronon: in some sims these thing would be considered spam at best and griefing at worst
[17:10] Arawn Spitteler: Something that would be nice, is a relative rezzer.
[17:10] Siobhan McCallen: only if it landed on your head
[17:10] Maggie Darwin: I have too many relatives already
[17:10] Arawn Spitteler: It's only grievous, when the Spam runs dry.
[17:10] Siobhan McCallen: i hate dry spam. I prefer mine crispy
[17:10] Sindy Tsure: magic rezzers are always tricky.. most of the things mine rez are temp but they also have a timer that llDie's after 10 sceonds or so
[17:11] Sindy Tsure: fine line between funny and spam :)
[17:11] Andrew Linden: ok, so what is up with the little falling objects with floating text?
[17:11] Sindy Tsure: though i still like maggies chat thing
[17:11] Siobhan McCallen: random silliness
[17:11] Sindy Tsure nods
[17:11] Maggie Darwin: Hmm? What thing?
[17:11] Andrew Linden: Oh ok.
[17:11] Maggie Darwin: I killed iot
[17:11] Maggie Darwin: it
[17:12] Siobhan McCallen: and I don't see a thing. that's mys tory and I'm sticking to it
[17:12] Maggie Darwin: She said sheepishly
[17:12] Sindy Tsure: so.. this is the pricing policy meeting, right?
[17:12] Sindy Tsure hides under the table
[17:12] Andrew Linden: Haha Sindy
[17:12] Siobhan McCallen pulls out a very large trout
[17:12] Arawn Spitteler wonders how much a policy would cost.
[17:12] Andrew Linden: I really haven't been paying attention to the openspace stuff
[17:12] Sindy Tsure waits for the 'logged out by admin' message
[17:12] Sindy Tsure: lucky you, andrew!
[17:12] Maggie Darwin: Actually, I was very favorably impressed with what M had to say.
[17:13] Andrew Linden: I got an email from someone asking about possible features/workarounds/changes to openspaces
[17:13] Siobhan McCallen: don't, andrew...save yourself!
[17:13] Andrew Linden: and it was only through the questions being asked that I learned about some various price / avatar limit / performance gradations that are in the proposal stage, or else officially announced
[17:14] Andrew Linden: I'm not even sure.
[17:14] Andrew Linden: I've been very "heads down" in the code
[17:14] Sindy Tsure: sorta 1/2 announced, i think
[17:14] Andrew Linden: and just delete all my emails about the subject
[17:14] Sindy Tsure: still some tbd's in there
[17:14] Simon Linden: yeah, the details aren't out yet
[17:14] Arawn Spitteler: People who actually want to use their Open Space, will have it priced as Homestead.
[17:14] Siobhan McCallen: half announced over the sound of the wailing and gnashing of teeth
[17:15] Sindy Tsure: i had an openspace question, tho not related to the pricing stuff
[17:15] Maggie Darwin: "actually use" being defined as "use far beyond the original intention"
[17:15] Andrew Linden: As I said in my response to the email... My preference is that we get rid of openspaces and instead throw a team at optimizing the simulator to allow lots of avatars and much better script performance
[17:15] Andrew Linden: then drop region prices across the board
[17:16] Andrew Linden: but I doubt that is going to happen... not enough people to throw at the project
[17:16] Simon Linden: I think there's a place for them as cheaper, lower capactiy regions, but it really needs to be well defined
[17:16] Andrew Linden: Here's an idea I had...
[17:16] Maggie Darwin: I have a project like that where I work. Not enough time to do right, somehow find time to do over
[17:16] Sindy Tsure: does it involve sheep?
[17:16] Arawn Spitteler: Charge 1/8 price, but charge for uses?
[17:16] Andrew Linden: what if the monthly price of the region was a function of max_avatar_count and max_prim_count?
[17:17] Andrew Linden: Then we would let the region owners set their limits
[17:17] Arawn Spitteler: Do't forget scripts
[17:17] Andrew Linden: and charge them a sliding scale... low limits would correspond to a low price
[17:17] Maggie Darwin: In general, computer performance is a black art. Too black for most residents to reason about successfully.
[17:17] Rex Cronon: so if i had 1 prim and one avatar, i would pay 2USD:)
[17:17] Andrew Linden: yeah... we would probably have to implement script limits too, so the region owners could pick that too
[17:18] Maggie Darwin: M has already promised you *will* have script limits
[17:18] Arawn Spitteler: Did you see what happened at Burning Life?
[17:18] Simon Linden: All scripts aren't created equal, however. They can have a wide range of impact, so I (personally) don't like the 'X number of scripts" limit
[17:18] Maggie Darwin: I didn;t see anyting happen a Burning Life, The lag was too bad
[17:18] Andrew Linden: Well Rex, the formula could be something like: base_price + A * avatar_limit + B * prim_limit + C * script_limit
[17:18] Sindy Tsure: wouldn't that cause a _ton_ of really cheap sims to be ordered for oceans?
[17:18] Maggie Darwin: And then I crashed. Repeatedly
[17:19] Andrew Linden: Perhaps Sindy
[17:19] Siobhan McCallen: Is the issue prim count, or is it actual server load?
[17:19] Sindy Tsure likes the idea, andrew.. think there may be tricky bits on keeping the hosts busy enough but not too busy
[17:19] Siobhan McCallen: what REALLY loads a server?
[17:19] Andrew Linden: one reason for doing that would be to give region owners incentives to optimize
[17:19] Andrew Linden: but also would allow them to pick how much they wanted (pay for what you use)
[17:20] Rex Cronon: andrew, u should have been with jack when he asked user input about the new prices
[17:20] Maggie Darwin: Funny how the incentives always seem to lead the tools
[17:20] Andrew Linden: then we could try to group the low-resource regions accordingly on the simulator host machines
[17:20] Andrew Linden: (that is the hard part)
[17:20] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Ella, we're discussing forbidden subjects
[17:20] Sindy Tsure: desmond suggested somehting with the same sort of goal.. he wanted his sims to be all on the same host so he could manage the load better
[17:21] Sindy Tsure: depending on what they were going to be used for
[17:21] Sindy Tsure: ..without impacting other sims on that core, since that was one of the big reasons jack gave for the price change
[17:21] Arawn Spitteler: That idea has some popularity, but it requires design of a different allocation algorhythm
[17:21] Maggie Darwin: Back when they were sold four at a time, they *were* all on the same CPU
[17:21] Andrew Linden: We don't currently do such region grouping by region owner
[17:21] Sindy Tsure: yep.. and rolling restarts take down your estate..
[17:21] Andrew Linden: that is, grouping them on host machines
[17:22] Maggie Darwin: I know two adjacent full sims that are clearly in different colos
[17:22] Maggie Darwin: because you take your life in your hands trying to cross
[17:22] Andrew Linden: No Maggie, the regions use a "fall as they may" scheme when it comes to the actual machine hosting them
[17:22] Sindy Tsure: i think LL wants things near on the grid to be far on the hardware
[17:23] Sindy Tsure: or not-near anyway
[17:23] Simon Linden: We actually want the hardware to not matter, but reality strikes back
[17:23] Andrew Linden: there are some technical reasons why region grouping by nearby hardware would be a good thing
[17:23] Arawn Spitteler: There should be some examination of usage trends, so fred can party while joe's at work
[17:23] Sindy Tsure: hardware is just a necessary evil to run the software, simon
[17:23] Sindy Tsure: shared cache!
[17:23] Andrew Linden: but it is just easier to let the cards just fall where they will
[17:23] Maggie Darwin: That quickly becomes an impondeable linear programming problem
[17:24] Maggie Darwin: I'm involved in similar work on a Java bladecenter cluster
[17:24] Sindy Tsure gets the phone.. brb
[17:25] Siobhan McCallen: does prim count *alone* heavily load a region?
[17:25] Siobhan McCallen: say, if I rez just static prims?
[17:25] Simon Linden: Rezzing in particular adds load - the new object has to be integrated into the world, and that's slow
[17:25] Andrew Linden: sorta, there is a cost per static prim
[17:25] Arawn Spitteler: Then, if one estate owner could rent by server, he could do the anticipation and negotiations. "You get to party between..."
[17:26] Andrew Linden: smaller than per-dynamic prim
[17:26] Maggie Darwin: But once it stabilizes...
[17:26] Andrew Linden: and moving dynamic prims are even more expensive
[17:26] Andrew Linden: but not all prims are created equal
[17:26] Simon Linden: But it varies greatly by the type - a cube has a lot fewer triangles that some oddly twisted torus
[17:26] Siobhan McCallen: so...if it has physics, it has a higher cost. and if it's scripted it's a higher cost, and if it has particles or sound, it's a higher cost.
[17:26] Sindy Tsure: and people tping in with attachments counts as rezzing?
[17:26] Siobhan McCallen: things the server has to poll to generate, right?
[17:26] Andrew Linden: yeah, but floating the cost would be complicated
[17:27] Simon Linden: yeah, I've looked at the TP arrival problem - the biggest slowdown there is our XML parser
[17:27] Andrew Linden: (that is, using floats for cost instead of integers)
[17:27] Maggie Darwin chokes
[17:27] Sindy Tsure: eXpensive Markup Language?
[17:27] Simon Linden: yep
[17:27] Maggie Darwin: You serialize object to XML?
[17:27] Maggie Darwin: Holy shit
[17:27] Simon Linden: Don't look at me - wasn't my idea :)
[17:27] Sindy Tsure: lol
[17:27] Sindy Tsure: er.. before i laugh, was it andrews?
[17:27] Sindy Tsure: idea?
[17:27] Simon Linden: I'm actually going to look at changing that for TPs in the next few months - we have an alternative binary format
[17:28] Siobhan McCallen: I ask because I went to an OS region and rezzed a 2000-prim static build, and while it took a little while to instantiate, once stable, all it added was .1ms of sim time
[17:28] Andrew Linden: We used to have a more svelt format
[17:28] Andrew Linden: but someone switched to XML
[17:28] Maggie Darwin: *cough*ProtoBuffs*cough*
[17:28] Sindy Tsure had an openspace question..
[17:28] Maggie Darwin: Only one?
[17:28] Sindy Tsure: is the openspace/full sim code identical?
[17:28] Sindy Tsure: but config'ed differently?
[17:28] Andrew Linden: yes Sindy.
[17:29] Sindy Tsure: or maybe some #ifdef differences?
[17:29] Simon Linden: We've looked at them - protobufs would be good. It's a possibility if our binary format isn't fast enough
[17:29] Maggie Darwin: Bad enough to have one version.. :-)
[17:29] Andrew Linden: same code, different limits
[17:29] Sindy Tsure: so just config.. ok.. ty!
[17:29] Maggie Darwin: You have a binary format in development?
[17:29] Andrew Linden: in fact, all of our server hosts are same code across the board, different configs
[17:30] Simon Linden: There's been one around for a while -- I haven't used it or checked out the performance
[17:30] Andrew Linden: the db servers have the same code image as our simulator hosts, as our web servers
[17:30] Sindy Tsure blinks
[17:30] Sindy Tsure: asset servers run sims?
[17:30] Sindy Tsure: or do you mean OS image?
[17:30] Andrew Linden: oh... the asset servers are special, I forgot about them
[17:31] Sindy Tsure picks presense servers instead
[17:31] Andrew Linden: and I think some of our database machines are silver or coper-plated hardware... a slight step up from the bronze-plated, or nickel simulator hosts
[17:32] Sindy Tsure: are you making that up?
[17:32] Andrew Linden: but the software installed is the exact same
[17:32] Rex Cronon: too bad u don't have gold plate, as people like bling:)
[17:32] Sindy Tsure: shiny!
[17:32] Andrew Linden: what I mean is... "gold plated hardware" are Very Expensive Machine's... IBM mainfraims and things like that
[17:32] Sindy Tsure: oh...
[17:33] Andrew Linden: I consider the asset servers to be "silver plated hardware"
[17:33] Sindy Tsure: lol.. ok
[17:33] Andrew Linden: pretty expensive, but not the most
[17:33] Andrew Linden: copper plated would be 3-U servers with backup power supplies and RAID or something fancy
[17:33] Sindy Tsure pictured prospero with a little scrap metal business on the side..
[17:33] Simon Linden: We did recently have some experimental stuff running on 8-core / 16GB machines and it was fast :)
[17:33] Andrew Linden: nickel or bronze would be cheap 1U pizzaboxen
[17:34] Siobhan McCallen: level 5 RAID, special cooling...
[17:34] Sindy Tsure: oh.. is that the class 6 hosts that the rumors are starting on?
[17:34] Sindy Tsure: er.. scratch that question.. i can wait for jack to announce them.. :)
[17:35] Sindy Tsure: 1.25 sim still on track for next week?
[17:35] Siobhan McCallen: brb
[17:35] Andrew Linden: Uh... server-1.25
[17:35] Sindy Tsure nods
[17:36] Andrew Linden: there were two new bugs in it I was supposed to look at today... haven't got to it yet :-(
[17:36] Andrew Linden: but I don't think they are blockers
[17:36] Andrew Linden: lemme check my email
[17:36] Maggie Darwin: I just found out that the Inner Strength HUD....successor to Force Powers...appears to be unable to shut off an attack once launched in 1.25
[17:37] Maggie Darwin: I'm working the issue with the developer, who is mostlly in absentia
[17:37] Sindy Tsure: unable to shut off an attach?
[17:37] Sindy Tsure: *attack
[17:37] Andrew Linden: looks like server-1.25 is still on target for next week.
[17:37] Arawn Spitteler: Have you tried basic benchmarking?
[17:38] Maggie Darwin: Sindy ....yeah...for instance
[17:38] Maggie Darwin: See the halo?
[17:38] Maggie Darwin: Now it's gone.
[17:38] Maggie Darwin: On 1.25 I can;t make it go away
[17:39] Andrew Linden: Maggie, sounds like you should file a bug and try to get the attention of one of the 1.25 team.
[17:39] Arawn Spitteler: Could be an interest list problem, or price of tea problem. Did you ask anouther, if it was a local appearence?
[17:39] Andrew Linden: A copy of the problem object is going to be needed to reproduce the problem.
[17:39] Maggie Darwin: Well, I don't own the code. I filed a report with the builder
[17:39] Andrew Linden: Ah ok
[17:39] Siobhan McCallen: back
[17:39] Maggie Darwin: /emote biobreak
[17:39] Maggie Darwin: Biobreak!
[17:40] Siobhan McCallen: the push issues appear to be fixed in 1.25
[17:40] Siobhan McCallen: and collisions
[17:40] Andrew Linden: the bullet hits? or scripted pushes?
[17:41] Siobhan McCallen: actually, both.
[17:41] Andrew Linden: I think I saw some of the comments on some of those "fix pending" bugs
[17:41] Sindy Tsure just wants the wobbly camera bug to get fixed! that's been torturing me this week for some reason
[17:41] Andrew Linden: and the tests looked good
[17:41] Siobhan McCallen: the push cap to zero is not capping to zero anymore
[17:41] Siobhan McCallen: and bullets are hitting well
[17:41] Andrew Linden: I think I got one verify on the camera oscillation bug
[17:41] Siobhan McCallen: yes, breathing camera is fixed too
[17:42] Siobhan McCallen: I haven't *seen* an instance of attachments appearing and disappearing while sitting, either
[17:42] Maggie Darwin: I have to dash...Sio's gonna cover the rest of this for us.
[17:42] Sindy Tsure: actually being gone or just not visible?
[17:42] Sindy Tsure: cya, maggie
[17:42] Siobhan McCallen: just going invisible
[17:42] Siobhan McCallen: happens primarily on poseballs
[17:43] Sindy Tsure: i think that's a known vwr bug.. zooming in a bit for a second fixes it up
[17:43] Siobhan McCallen: doesn't fix it permanently. moving the cam around yourself makes them appear and disappear
[17:43] Sindy Tsure will believe that
[17:44] Siobhan McCallen: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8920
[17:44] Siobhan McCallen: prospero says 1.22 viewer is supposed to fix it
[17:44] Sindy Tsure thinks it's been 3-4 weeks since she's mentioned http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
[17:45] Siobhan McCallen: but I can't verify it, of course
[17:45] Arawn Spitteler: Which is SVC-22?
[17:45] Siobhan McCallen: parcel limits, vehicles, and border crossings
[17:45] Sindy Tsure: that's vehicles going all weird if you cross a sim boundary and the parcel on the other side is full
[17:45] Arawn Spitteler: Oh, yes, I keep suggesting that Andrew take a road trip
[17:46] Andrew Linden: ah yes, SVC-22 one of my favorites
[17:46] Siobhan McCallen: it's what causes you to get unseated and leave a vehicle in the air over a full parcel that you can't kill
[17:46] Arawn Spitteler: Start at Tulup Tree, and hang a west at Neumogen
[17:46] Sindy Tsure: vehicles are a special case - they shouldn't get bounced on a full parcel and don't, unless you're crossing to a different sim
[17:46] Sindy Tsure: it just appears to be there, i think.. a relog makes it go away
[17:46] Siobhan McCallen: normally, when you hit a full parcel, you see "x sims seated on, will delete on stand" or some such
[17:47] Siobhan McCallen: but not on a sim crossing. on a crossing to a full parcel, you get booted off the vehicle and the vehicle sits in the sky
[17:47] Andrew Linden: someday I'll be able to start on SVC-22
[17:47] Arawn Spitteler: Temps and Vehicles aren't even supposed to be counted, for the parcel
[17:47] Andrew Linden: hrm...
[17:48] Andrew Linden: I thought it was sim-crossing into parcel in which you're not allowed
[17:48] Andrew Linden: boots the avatar
[17:48] Andrew Linden: but leaves the vehicle
[17:48] Sindy Tsure: could be.. i think that happens within a sim, too
[17:48] Andrew Linden: or is it... cross into region that is "avatar full"
[17:48] Arawn Spitteler: That's just a normal accdess line orbiting
[17:48] Sindy Tsure: svc-22 is really about full parcels, i think
[17:49] Andrew Linden: vehicle continues but leave avatar in the neighbor region
[17:49] Siobhan McCallen: there's another issue of ban lines.
[17:49] Siobhan McCallen: they shouldn't be bouncing the av off the vehicle and leaving the vehicle in the air either
[17:49] Arawn Spitteler: Noobs shouldn't have to be orbited, when their vehicles are stolen
[17:49] Siobhan McCallen: similar, but not svc-22
[17:50] Siobhan McCallen: a lot of the vehicle continuing with the avatar in the original region are caused by expired region handoffs
[17:50] Sindy Tsure: #2 in the description of svc-22 is the one i've been thinking of
[17:50] Arawn Spitteler: "Can not region cross into banned parcel," does that take vehicles?
[17:50] Sindy Tsure: "2. Some of the time, usually with a full parcel, it's not checking whether the vehicle is a vehicle (vehicles are supposed to be counted against sim overhead, not the current parcel) and starting the return process, then abandoning it partway through."
[17:51] Siobhan McCallen: if you tp into the region with the vehicle quickly enough, you are still "sitting" in it, and will arrive back on the vehicle
[17:51] Andrew Linden: Ah ok I get it
[17:51] Andrew Linden: right... the vehicle crosses first, avatar arrives shortly after
[17:51] Siobhan McCallen: but that's not svc-22, that's a region handoff problem, mostly because the destination sim is in a colo
[17:51] Andrew Linden: so for a brief moment the "vehicle" has no seated avatar
[17:52] Andrew Linden: and the parcel count code determines that it is a "regular object"
[17:52] Siobhan McCallen: if the timing isn't right, the av ends up in limbo, still "seated" but not in the same region as the vehicle
[17:52] Arawn Spitteler: The vehicle is a linked object, and should have the Primatar as a link.
[17:52] Sindy Tsure: it goes very weird..
[17:52] Siobhan McCallen: you can't stand up, you can't move. all you can do is teleport
[17:52] Andrew Linden: well... seated avatars are not sent with the vehicle. the two are separated and sent via different paths
[17:53] Andrew Linden: region crossings need work
[17:53] Sindy Tsure: nothing in the vehicle says "i've got somebody on me"?
[17:53] Siobhan McCallen: they aren't rejoining.
[17:53] Andrew Linden: sigh... you guys know that these office hours just make me anxious, right?
[17:53] Sindy Tsure: or is that just implied?
[17:53] Andrew Linden: so many bugs, so little time
[17:53] Siobhan McCallen: sindy...it still thinks you are. if you tp into the region with the vehicle, you appear sitting back in the vehicle
[17:53] Sindy Tsure: have a sheep, andrew! no worries
[17:53] Arawn Spitteler: Take a road trip, and relax.
[17:54] Siobhan McCallen: andrew...we understand, really.
[17:54] Sindy Tsure: oops.. that didn't work well.. lol
[17:54] Andrew Linden: sindy, perhaps your little wand should trigger on the mention of "bug"
[17:54] Siobhan McCallen: It's not you, it's Murphy's Law of Cybernetic Entomology
[17:54] Sindy Tsure: lol
[17:54] Andrew Linden: then we'd have little bugs dropping constantly at these offiice hours
[17:54] Sindy Tsure: don't tempt me
[17:54] Siobhan McCallen: "There's always one more bug"
[17:54] Simon Linden: Let's have one for 'lag' as well
[17:54] Arawn Spitteler: Bugs could be vehicles, and I know just the route.
[17:55] Siobhan McCallen: uh oh.
[17:55] Siobhan McCallen: the bugs from the movie "Runaway"
[17:55] Sindy Tsure: bugs are actually on my list.. i have some bees already but they need work
[17:55] Siobhan McCallen: little robot spiders with Gene Simmons controlling 'em
[17:56] Sindy Tsure: lol
[17:56] Andrew Linden: This office hour is almost over. Anybody have some questions or issues you're holding on to for the last minute?
[17:56] Sindy Tsure: ok.. now i rmember that movie
[17:56] Sindy Tsure doesn't!
[17:56] Arawn Spitteler: SVC-2931, is Jahar being as much a jerk as I imagine?
[17:56] Andrew Linden: I'm just making it a habit to ask.
[17:56] Siobhan McCallen: I want an indulgence to orbit anyone who uses the term "bait and switch" incorrectly anymore
[17:56] Rex Cronon: can llsetdamage() accept negative values that increase your life:)
[17:57] Sindy Tsure: or llGiveMoney with negative numbers!!
[17:57] Andrew Linden: I'll see if I can hardcode that into the simulator Siobhan
[17:57] Siobhan McCallen: works for me
[17:57] Arawn Spitteler: That should be an optino for the sim owner, but was taken away, at some point
[17:57] Siobhan McCallen: give yourself a sheep out of petty cash
[17:57] Sindy Tsure: lol
[17:58] Arawn Spitteler: Some medical procedure would be nice, but many games are setting their own damage counts.
[17:59] Sindy Tsure: i've seen medical stuff in sl.. it's usually a bit.. er.. much, i think
[17:59] Siobhan McCallen: have an option for damage regions to do something other than send someone home, settable by the parcel
[17:59] Siobhan McCallen: like run an animation
[17:59] Rex Cronon: and another function to get the life value
[18:00] Andrew Linden: Hrm... that would be kinda cool... a custom death anim
[18:00] Sindy Tsure: and functions to get more info about groups/roles!
[18:00] Arawn Spitteler: Yes, llTeleportAgent. If the fear is of griefers, it should be limited to parcel or sim owners
[18:00] Rex Cronon: that isn't so hard. or it is:)
[18:00] Siobhan McCallen: wouldn't need 10,000 blasted combat huds and the damn politics around 'em
[18:00] Siobhan McCallen: since mostly what they don't like is being sent home
[18:00] Andrew Linden: probaby not too hard Rex
[18:00] Andrew Linden: the hardest part would be to provide the UI for the region/estate owners for setting it
[18:01] Arawn Spitteler: Maybe we could set up parcel scripting?
[18:01] Andrew Linden: per parcel scripting might be cool
[18:01] Siobhan McCallen: give some new options to the militaries and combat people
[18:02] Arawn Spitteler: I've always wondered, why not script the Primatoars and Clients, but Sims and Parcels should also be scriptable.
[18:02] Andrew Linden: I'll bet there are some "low hanging fruit" on the "make combat systems easier/better" front
[18:02] Rex Cronon: i guess somebody should make a jira entry requesting that, i wonder how many would vote:)
[18:03] Siobhan McCallen: maybe I'll have an alt suggest it so I don't get assassinated. ;)
[18:03] Andrew Linden: however... any feature at all seems out of reach right now... as soon as I'm done with this one project I'm going to go into "fix bugs" mode for a few weeks
[18:03] Sindy Tsure: :)
[18:03] Arawn Spitteler: TPAgent, would be a start. And I still think Forced TP is enough of a G-Team function, to be appropriate for Estate Holders.
[18:03] Siobhan McCallen: oh, I know it would be a "someday" thing
[18:03] Simon Linden: I have to bail out - RL intervenes. Thanks to everyone for coming, it was good to see you
[18:03] Siobhan McCallen: my birthday's in April. :)
[18:03] Andrew Linden: That isn't really parcel scripting so much as more per-parcel settings
[18:03] Rex Cronon: bye simon
[18:04] Simon Linden: bye
[18:04] Sindy Tsure: there will always be bugs, andrew.. i still really like the idea of a handful of devs doing a couple week of low-hanging-fruit enhancements
[18:04] Siobhan McCallen: see ya Simin
[18:04] Siobhan McCallen: Simon
[18:04] Sindy Tsure: cya, simon!
[18:04] Andrew Linden: and stuff like that maybe needs to be also settable as per-region or per-state
[18:04] Andrew Linden: per-estate
[18:04] Andrew Linden: it starts to get complicated
[18:04] Andrew Linden: each thing needs a config file with a clear override sequence
[18:05] Andrew Linden: does the per-parcel setting win? or the per-region setting?
[18:05] Rex Cronon: region maybe?
[18:05] Siobhan McCallen: region at least
[18:05] Arawn Spitteler: Where do I find an intersim sandbox?
[18:05] Sindy Tsure thinks the bigger-scope setting as the fallback
[18:05] Andrew Linden: I guess it should be per-estate, per-region, per-parcel, then per-avatar
[18:05] Siobhan McCallen: parcel would be cool, but if it's too hard to implement, region
[18:06] Sindy Tsure: hiya ella
[18:06] Arawn Spitteler: PArcels and Regions both have keys, don't they? Why not contents?
[18:06] Siobhan McCallen: estate would also be helpful for large estates.
[18:06] Siobhan McCallen: wb ella
[18:06] Andrew Linden: alright, I've got to run... I've got to go fix that floor in that Welcome Area I was talking about.
[18:06] Sindy Tsure: make it phantom!!
[18:06] Rex Cronon: bye andrew
[18:06] Siobhan McCallen: ok andrew. good to see you again
[18:06] Sindy Tsure: cya, andrew! ty!
[18:06] Arawn Spitteler: Which area? It might be fun to offer useless comments
[18:07] Sindy Tsure: ooo.. a stalking andrew party!
[18:07] Sindy Tsure: lol..
[18:07] Sindy Tsure: cya, all
[18:07] Siobhan McCallen: have my latest gadget, andrew
[18:07] Rex Cronon: bye syndi
[18:07] Rex Cronon: bye everybody
[18:07] Andrew Linden: Hangeul Arawn
[18:07] Siobhan McCallen gave you NAS Grav-Chute v. 0.71 (BOXED).
[18:08] Siobhan McCallen: high-tech parachute.
[18:08] Siobhan McCallen: looks cool
[18:08] Siobhan McCallen: see ya later!