User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 04 27

Transcript

[10:59]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Simon
[10:59]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[10:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi,m Simon
[10:59]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon
[10:59]	Phantom Ninetails:	Greetings, Simon
[11:00]	xstorm Radek:	OMG!! its Tillie
[11:00]	Simon Linden:	be right back ... gonna put on some coffee
[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Tillie Ariantho:	xstorm: :P
[11:00]	xstorm Radek:	get some for me
[11:00]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[11:00]	Cerdita Piek:	hello anyone
[11:00]	Techwolf Lupindo	returns
[11:00]	Phantom Ninetails:	Greetings, Andrew
[11:00]	Faust Vollmar:	And theres Andrew, horray
[11:01]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[11:01]	xstorm Radek:	hi Andrew
[11:01]	Cerdita Piek:	hi Andrew
[11:01]	Tillie Ariantho:	Nice 1-prim bed, xstorm. :)
[11:01]	xstorm Radek:	did that not rez Andrew ?
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	Did what not rez, xstorm?
[11:02]	xstorm Radek:	there has been a large number of people telling me the sculpts are not rezzing
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	I was looking at the waky prim behind me.
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	greetings everybody
[11:02]	xstorm Radek:	the bed frame
[11:02]	Jonathan Yap:	I cannot see that bed very well
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	looks fine to me
[11:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Sounds like the textrue skulpt is not loading.
[11:02]	Jonathan Yap:	<-changes viewers
[11:02]	Phantom Ninetails:	Bed looks fine to me.
[11:02]	Rex Cronon:	i see your bed ok
[11:03]	Susie Chaffe:	doesn't rez on Rainbow
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	yes but i do not know if its the viewer or the sim
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	those that don't, might need to reduce their draw distance
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	If it's a sculpty and you're not seeing it, that's likely a problem with the texture/shape info not getting to your viewer
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	The Plywood Bed looked okay to me
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	I see something there, but it is a mess of overlapping triangles.
[11:03]	Susie Chaffe:	ahh its rezzed now
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	I had that at first viewing, then it came in OK
[11:03]	Jonathan Yap:	hooray for Snowglobe, the bed popped up immediately
[11:03]	xstorm Radek:	what viewer are you using ?
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	I wonder if the viewer is getting confused if it doens't have the full high-rez texture
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	zoom in/out that should force your viewer to load it
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I'm using viewer 2.0.1
[11:04]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I hope skulpite textrue are going over to http textues soon.
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	on linux
[11:04]	Phantom Ninetails:	If you have details turned down for objects in your preferences, it might never look correct until you turn it up.
[11:04]	Kitto Flora:	Sculptie textures are commonly slow to fully load. Up to a minute is normal.
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	I'm in 2.0.1
[11:04]	Tillie Ariantho:	snowglobe 1.4 ^^
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	odd then may be the OS
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, my graphics preferences are set as low as they can go.
[11:04]	xstorm Radek:	im Using viewer 2.0.1
[11:04]	Kitto Flora:	Same problem as for ordinary textures
[11:05]	Phantom Ninetails:	I guess that's why then
[11:05]	xstorm Radek:	may be your systems needs to be tweak Andrew
[11:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Who created that skupt texture?
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, interesting. Sounds like the graphics prefs get in the way of receiving enough sculpty data
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	There, I set my object graphics preferences to "High", and then the bed popped in when I selected it.
[11:05]	xstorm Radek:	im the maker of the sculpt
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Hehe, when I go back to "Low" the bed is a mess again.
[11:06]	xstorm Radek:	so it needs to be on high then hhmm
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	That's a lot of detail to put through the skulpty system
[11:06]	Phantom Ninetails:	:) it doesn't change what LOD you recieve from the server, just what LOD is rendered
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	sculpty
[11:07]	xstorm Radek:	thats one of my simple sculptys
[11:07]	Techwolf Lupindo:	That is the LOD bug. check jira, there severl very load ones in there about the LOD issue that was changed around 1.23 sercies that make skupt look worse.
[11:07]	Techwolf Lupindo:	loud
[11:07]	Ardy Lay:	SNOW-371, for example
[11:07]	Implement OblongSculptiesDetails	patch from cool viewer (also Emerald viewer) in standard viewer.
[11:07]	xstorm Radek:	i think my LOD is set to 30.000
[11:08]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Nearly all shops hand out a notecard on how to fix the viewer for there products.
[11:08]	Faust Vollmar:	I keep mine at 5 and usually don't have any issue.
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	Someone just mentioned in-house about 2.0 getting a lot of attention to the texture pipeline and how it was handling priortization and LOD, so it's likely the different versions behave differently here
[11:08]	Faust Vollmar:	The notecard in circulation suggests 4.
[11:08]	Phantom Ninetails	shrugs
[11:09]	xstorm Radek:	oh i see thank you Ardy
[11:09]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I've looked into this. Turns out someone set 1.25 for all graphics settings instead of 1.25, 2, 3, and 4 for each graphics setting.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... well the is a viewer team initiative going on to make SL viewer-2 run faster on lesser graphics hardware.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps they'll fix that and other bugs along the way.
[11:10]	xstorm Radek:	yes but if people wish to use sculps for cars and trains and boats it needs to get better
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	I don't have much news. No new development since last week.
[11:10]	Arawn Spitteler	has a call, on Advanced Scripters, to bring back Prim Torture: I remember SVC-93 is about rotational borkedness, and SVC-22 is about receiving servers not realizing that vehicles are ridden, but what's the number for Scripted Prim Torture?
[11:10]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:10]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	I'm working on some small exploit today.
[11:11]	Faust Vollmar:	Considering SL doesn't have the typical level of QA on graphics load that many games have I'd say it already pushes prims pretty damn well, but that's just me.
[11:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	Working on the SECs?
[11:11]	xstorm Radek:	oh no not another exploit :-(
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	This one isn't an object permissions exploit.
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	andrew. have u head of the "second life professional edition" viewer?
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	It is a little griefer exploit.
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	have u heard*
[11:12]	s exploited	Griefers before
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	No, I haven't heard of the professional edition.
[11:12]	xstorm Radek:	gee thanks i have to go slap griefers again lol
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Is that a real project or a wishful project?
[11:12]	Rex Cronon	shouts: this link has a screen shot of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30874774@N05/4544032357/
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	prim rotation problems again ?
[11:13]	Rex Cronon:	it is a hacked viewer that allows editing of any object permissions
[11:13]	Tillie Ariantho:	I think its a copybot client, no?
[11:13]	xstorm Radek:	did that not get fix ?
[11:13]	Faust Vollmar:	I thought "PE"s particular exploit was fixed, but I'm not that good at tracking this stuff.
[11:13]	Rex Cronon:	it seems that everything in sl can have its perms changed by that viewer. including scripts
[11:14]	xstorm Radek:	oh i have reported 5 copybotted items last week by one person they have been removed from SL
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Huh... I'm skeptical.
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	Have you got a copy? If a viewer can open scripts, there's an error in Server Programming.
[11:14]	Rex Cronon:	look at that picture, and u will see
[11:14]	Jonathan Yap:	I don't see how the permissions could be saved back to the asset server
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Especially since I've worked on the server-side permissions checks.
[11:14]	Ardy Lay:	Rex, you talking about something on this page? http://onyx.modularsystems.sl/viewer_reference.html
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	talking about this image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30874774@N05/4544032357/sizes/o/
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	That is, I'm skeptical that all permissions can be rewritten by that viewer.
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	There may be some exploit that I'm not aware of, I'll grant that.
[11:15]	xstorm Radek:	Greetings Gomas Enimo can i help you ? :-)
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	He's an entire month old, and already a noob! He should come to Doc Hour, tommorrow.
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	the "inventory item properties" window/floater in that image is very interesting
[11:16]	xstorm Radek:	yes i see that
[11:17]	xstorm Radek:	what happen to the community gateways to help train new people ?
[11:17]	Rex Cronon:	if your browser has a zoomin capability it can allow u to read the words in that picture
[11:19]	Tillie Ariantho:	Bleh, I see "Crashpackets" there in the menu. :-/
[11:19]	xstorm Radek:	im told physics is messed up do to the bounding box of a sculpt ? can that be fix ?
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	yes. crahspackets is another interesting option
[11:19]	Faust Vollmar:	I thought sculpts have a base simple prim as its physics footprint.
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	it explains the way some people crash without reason and repeatedly
[11:20]	xstorm Radek:	thats what i was thinking
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought Sculpts were twisted torii, that looked round.
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	Faust - yes, I think they are a torus in the physics simulation
[11:20]	xstorm Radek:	some do seem to look round
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	actually, sculpt physics is a convex hull of a torus
[11:21]	xstorm Radek:	but Opensim has sculpt prims working better then SL has
[11:21]	xstorm Radek:	there has to be a way to make the sculpts on SL better
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that isn't surprising. The SL simulator's don't download or compute the shape info of sculpties.
[11:22]	xstorm Radek:	will this be fix later on ?
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	One plan was to eventually get around to doing sculpty collisions right. However it was decided to just do mesh in a more general way.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Better shape handling of sculpties in the physics engine will probably never happen.
[11:23]	Kitto Flora:	Can H4 (etc) be loaded with a mesh for an object?
[11:23]	xstorm Radek:	thats why i still think having 2 mesh layers are better
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	The people in charge of mesh would just like sculpties to go away.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Hello Kitto, long time no see.
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, Havok4 can support "mesh shapes".
[11:24]	Rex Cronon:	why? sculpties r just rectangular meshes
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	well sculpties are not going to go away lol
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	In fact, all of our concave shapes use the Havok hkMeshShape C++ class
[11:24]	Kitto Flora:	I suspect thats why OS is 'better' - ODE is loaded with the object mesh (If you use ODE+Meshmerizer)
[11:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	The next improvement for Sculpties, that I can see, would be linking phantom and solid.
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	The reason that sculpties get no love is that the mesh-via-texture encoding is a hack
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	and is not really supported by established CAD and 3D design tools (such as Maya, 3DStudioMax, etc)
[11:25]	xstorm Radek:	infact by the end of this year we may see more then half the builds on SL will be sculpties
[11:25]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Wasn't skulp more effensent render wise?
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	i thought that lindens didn't hate hacks
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	I think sculpt has some advantages, I can't really argue about them. Qarl knows more.
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	But they have some disadvantages, the main one being the obscurity of the technology.
[11:26]	Kitto Flora	has been busy working on Meta7 and scuplty trains :)
[11:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	There are good misfeatures, and there is "Not Invented Here."
[11:26]	Faust Vollmar:	I just remember the comparison that a sculpt has the rendering load of approximately 11 normal prims. A bit less if you're judging by Tori I guess.
[11:27]	Faust Vollmar:	Torii*
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	The mesh team thinks mesh will be the new hotness and sculpties will fall by the wayside.
[11:27]	Tillie Ariantho:	Kitto: I guess there are no old-train to sculpty updates? :P
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps eventually we'll have some sculpty-->mesh migration tools.
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	They were a quick and somewhat-dirty way to get mesh-like shapes into SL. The real mesh support has obviously required a lot more work
[11:27]	xstorm Radek:	sorry the render cost of a sculpty is lower in many cases
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	Updates - no. New compatible trains - yes.
[11:28]	Rex Cronon:	"They were a quick and somewhat-dirty way to get mesh-like shapes into SL."???
[11:28]	Kitto Flora:	6 secs to laod - not bad
[11:28]	Tillie Ariantho:	nice =)
[11:29]	xstorm Radek:	Kitto that train has sculpties right ?
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[11:29]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler	saw sculpties
[11:29]	Phantom Ninetails:	andrew did you read svc-422
[11:29]	A solution	to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
[11:29]	Ardy Lay:	Faust Vollmar, I would like to know your source for that rendering load statement.
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Well its a coach - what an engine pulls
[11:29]	Faust Vollmar:	I have a curiousity, if I may. I've seen a Havok7 upgrade mentioned in the office hour transcripts. Even though its a long ways away (?) I'm curious if this entails anything beyond efficiency/resilience upgrades, such as new possibilities for content creators to utilize with regards to physics.
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Phantom, yes I've seen SVC-422 before. It looked kind hard to implement -- mostly because of User Inteface confusion.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	It needs some design. It isn't something I could just start working on.
[11:31]	Phantom Ninetails:	hmm
[11:31]	Jonathan Yap:	Havok7 is not too far away--won't it be in server 1.40?
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Havok7 is probably going to be included in server-1.40.
[11:31]	Phantom Ninetails:	Well thanks for looking at it
[11:31]	Faust Vollmar:	I dont remember which log it was in, I just recall something being a long ways off, I might have confused it for something else.
[11:31]	xstorm Radek:	i have found Havok 7 to have fix many problems we have now
[11:31]	Faust Vollmar:	Anyway, the curiousity stands. Any new things for us?
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Faust, not much new in Havok7's initial deployment.
[11:31]	Jonathan Yap:	Script limits is a long ways away
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	There's also an unfortunate additional amount of work because I think we ran out of space to easily add more parcel flags ... we hit 32, which is the size of the int data it's stored in
[11:32]	Faust Vollmar:	Hmm
[11:32]	Faust Vollmar:	Alright
[11:32]	Phantom Ninetails:	dang
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Physics will be a bit more efficient, especially when building big piles of dynamic objects.
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	So we need another chunk for flags, which means new messages, etc.
[11:32]	Faust Vollmar:	Does it open any new doors for the future, maybe?
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	However, Havok7 is considered a prerequisite for some stuff that we want to ship eventually.
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	32 seems an odd size, five bits?
[11:33]	Simon Linden:	32 bits in a 4 byte integer
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	And there is already some work being done on those future features that will take advantage of Havok7 and the cleanup that went with it.
[11:33]	xstorm Radek:	just do not drop 14000 physic set prims at one time and drop them still is the key
[11:33]	Faust Vollmar:	Arawn: Each flag is sent together in one integer, so 32 bits = 32 separate flags.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	No, Havok7 doesn't have a lot of features that Havok4 didn't have.
[11:34]	Faust Vollmar:	Well alright Andrew that answers my question well enough. "Nothing new immediately, but it opens doors later on." Works for me. =)
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	But we did manage to clean some of our own code when moving to Havok7.
[11:35]	Faust Vollmar:	I guess while I'm thinking physics-related stuff, Falcon make any progress on pushing Raycasts?
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Falcon has been working on it, and he's also found some parts of our code that clean up a bit. Nothing major, but it's good to get the little improvements too
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew i did see some thing that makes me feel better about Havok 7 it seems some sim crossing problem have been fix
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	No, Falcon isn't working on raycasts right now.
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	He wants to create some LSL API for doing raycasts.
[11:36]	Simon Linden:	He has a lot of good ideas, but we need to get the basics done first :)
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	However, there is currently a long-term next-gen LSL project underway (aka C# in SL)
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	and major enhancements to script API's will probably wait for C# to complete.
[11:37]	Faust Vollmar	makes note: Time to learn C#
[11:37]	xstorm Radek:	we need a Converter for LSL to C# please
[11:38]	Kitto Flora:	There seems to have been some change to sim border crossing in the recent sim update. The incidence of loss of vehicle at borders is wayyyyy down.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	oops, I'm being pinged in another channel that is kinda important. I'll brb... 5 min.
[11:38]	xstorm Radek:	k
[11:38]	Simon Linden	queues up the elevator music
[11:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Invite them here?
[11:39]	Phantom Ninetails:	lol elevator music.
[11:39]	Simon Linden:	I've seen some of the C# prototypes, and it looks pretty good. The interesting part is how to take the LSL event-driven model and have it work in the new langauge
[11:39]	Sebastean Steamweaver	arrives very late and wonders what he missed.
[11:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Sebastion, Aimee, we're humming Muzak to ourselves.
[11:40]	Simon Linden:	Andrew just had to run off
[11:40]	Faust Vollmar:	Really wish I could attend Babbage's OH but the only days I could be up at that hour are monday and tuesday. =/
[11:40]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Darn
[11:40]	Simon Linden:	Let's see ... I don't think we did any annoucments
[11:40]	Tillie Ariantho:	Hello Aimee :)
[11:40]	Aimee Linden:	hi :)
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	He mentioned not haveing accomplished anything, this week.
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	There may be a minor server revision coming along, but I don't know the exact dates. Any 1.38 updates will be focused on specific revisions and not add anything significant
[11:41]	Techwolf Lupindo:	In-world scripts have to be event driven. You can't have a script in a tight polling loop looking for a touch.
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	I think 1.40 is branching at the end of this week and will get onto Aditi
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	Come to the beta office hours on Thursdays if you want to get into the details
[11:41]	xstorm Radek:	Simon do you wish me to AR that mega prim thats up around 3000 m again it looks like a round disc with blue image on it ?
[11:41]	Ardy Lay:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok_7_Beta_Home
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	I have some region crossing code in 1.40 I'm looking forward to testing. Should make in-region lag a bit better
[11:42]	Faust Vollmar:	3 PM Thursdays, Morris on Beta right?
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - who's the owner?
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	Yes Faust, that's the time
[11:42]	xstorm Radek:	its not a linden name
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	... and it is on the Aditi beta grid, so you have to make sure you can log in there
[11:43]	xstorm Radek:	let me go get a screen shot takes a sec
[11:43]	xstorm Radek:	bs go
[11:43]	Alpha 5:	Ready! Type 'bs help' for a list of commands.
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	how high up is that? I could just go and zap it ....
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	bs speed 300
[11:44]	Alpha 5:	speed is now 300
[11:44]	Simon Linden	ponders the abuse of superpowers
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	i will go log its data
[11:44]	xstorm Radek:	brb
[11:44]	Phantom Ninetails:	┐(-｡ｰ;)┌
[11:44]	Aimee Linden:	abuse?
[11:45]	Aimee Linden	looks innocent
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	Or use :)
[11:45]	Techwolf Lupindo:	how about that biplane thats been stuck in the ship for the past couple month wiht the running engine(sound loop)
[11:45]	Faust Vollmar:	I'm pretty thrilled with any physics performance improvements to be honest. My personal hobby is in the combat system and weapons areas of SL, though by no means as well-versed as the bigshots.
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	I suppose it's really an estates issue, but Techies should have their fun.
[11:46]	Faust Vollmar	pops on his pet project for a brief moment. XD
[11:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	Im still waiting for the ability to return those 6 mega prim spheres that overhang my parcel by 11 meters
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Back.
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Wb Andrew
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	And hey Aimee
[11:47]	Aimee Linden:	lo :)
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	wb
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Looks like the last bit of development I did (cleanup) is going to be tested for inclusion in server-1.40.
[11:47]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Wonderful :)
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Aimee, you're on the viewer dev team right?
[11:48]	Simon Linden:	Great ,,, is that the maint-server branch you had?
[11:48]	Aimee Linden:	yup ")
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, I think about 95% of the work done in my maint-server branch is going to get into server-1.40 (assuming this next chunk passes QA).
[11:49]	Simon Linden:	ah, nice!
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Aimee, what specifically are you working on these days, if you can talk about it here? I'm curious.
[11:49]	Aimee Linden:	Im working on voice stuff mostly, besides general bug fixing
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Occasoionally we get asked about viewer stuff that we don't know about.
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	So it's good to have someone else here who might be able to answer.
[11:50]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Good. Are they replace the vovix with a better one?
[11:51]	Aimee Linden:	heh, nope
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Aimee, what platform do you do your dev work? Windows, Mac, or Linux?
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Today, we were hearing frightening tales of Second Life Proffessional Edition, if you've heard of that.
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Any word on why SLim was dropped?
[11:51]	xstorm Radek:	oh did not see the young Aimee Linden show up greetings Aimee :-)
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I heard someone say why SLim was dropped, but I can't remember the details.
[11:52]	Techwolf Lupindo:	slim wasn't marked right and usage was very low.
[11:52]	Techwolf Lupindo:	marketed
[11:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	If there is such a thing as SL Pro, it's probably geared toward content creators.
[11:52]	Faust Vollmar:	Seb: Nooot quite
[11:52]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	No?
[11:52]	Aimee Linden:	it relied heavily on the old version of the vivox server
[11:53]	xstorm Radek:	i wish there was a SL pro lol
[11:53]	Tillie Ariantho:	btw. someone should clean up over there at the black ship, several noob prims and planes and cars need a return. ^^
[11:53]	Faust Vollmar:	Professional Edition is/(was?) a copybot/permissions exploit viewer.
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	The SL Professional Edition isn't an LL product. I'm guessing it is a screenshot of a 3rd party viewer.
[11:53]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Ah-ha, my mistake. I assumed it was an official LL product.
[11:53]	Rex Cronon:	the "second life professional edition" viewer has nothing to do with content creators, except changing the perms bought items that originally were no-mod
[11:53]	Faust Vollmar:	Yes, a rather malicious one Andrew.
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Viewers for the proffeissional griefer.
[11:54]	xstorm Radek:	damn
[11:54]	xstorm Radek:	Linden Lab need a viewer UI made for content builders
[11:55]	Phantom Ninetails:	They did.. Viewer 1.x.. But now they're moving away from that with 2.0.
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	and here u can see screenshot of this "professional" viewer: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30874774@N05/4544032357/
[11:55]	Tillie Ariantho:	yah, rote functionality, mirror, textures across several prims, tons to do. ;)
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	Actually xstorm, I agree. However I don't think LL is going to do that soon.
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler	still wonders why we can't edit SetText Directly.
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	The only way it could be done would be in SnowGlobe.
[11:55]	Faust Vollmar:	I dont build much but the 1.23 UI is good to me when I do.
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	I think.
[11:55]	Tillie Ariantho:	Yah, n00bs are in LL focus. We are not n00bish enough anymore. :-(
[11:55]	xstorm Radek:	think of having a SL water mark with a hidden UUID
[11:55]	Ardy Lay:	SNOW-586 is handy.
[11:55]	Add option	to align textures across (planar-mapped, co-planar) faces
[11:56]	Tillie Ariantho:	Nyx asked for patches for improved building tools, so someone should submit some. ^^
[11:56]	xstorm Radek:	well i know i can make the poor Ontyne support desk look bad
[11:57]	Ardy Lay:	xstorm, they are doing fine at making themselves look bad.
[11:57]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	What is Ontyne?
[11:57]	xstorm Radek:	true
[11:57]	Tillie Ariantho:	So why wont we get better support for content builders? Am I right with my noob-only support? ;)
[11:57]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	We cuold also use better things like llTExtBox
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Content Creators can join in world groups
[11:57]	Faust Vollmar:	Just be glad that, for now, 2.0 isnt requisite...
[11:58]	Ardy Lay:	Your new contractor that provides "customer service".
[11:58]	Faust Vollmar:	Yes, llTextBox, someone finish that please.
[11:58]	Sebastean Steamweaver	posted on the llTextBox today .>.>
[11:58]	xstorm Radek:	seems Second life live chat help desk is run by Ontyne group
[11:58]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	llTextBox JIRA*
[11:58]	Tillie Ariantho:	Arawn: groups dont really help work get done better.
[11:58]	Jonathan Yap:	There is a "patch available" for that lltextbox for the 1.22 viewer, I wish someone would code it into snowglobe 1.4 :)
[11:58]	Simon Linden:	I know this isn't a short-term solution, but it's seemed to me that the execs and product folks are beginning to put more importance on the builder end of things
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	Tillie, I think you're basically right. New residents are in the focus of the strategists on the viewer and executive teams.
[11:58]	Tillie Ariantho:	darn
[11:58]	xstorm Radek:	they all need to learn more
[11:58]	Tillie Ariantho:	So if we don't submit patches it wont get done.
[11:58]	Simon Linden:	I think they feel like they did something for the viewer and early experience (which is ongoing) but now realize content makes an impact too :)
[11:59]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Jonathan, I once hoped for it in snowglobe, but now, I don't want it in there. It's been too long, and even if wemanaged to get it into snowglobe, there's no telling how long it would take to roll that back to the main viewer.
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	However, I think viewer 2.1 will have more options that will make the UI more power-user friendly, and hopefully LL will continue work in that direction.
[11:59]	Faust Vollmar:	Am I the only one who never had the slightest problem with the UI even at his first day in? D=
[11:59]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Andrew; that's what I'm hoping, yes.
[11:59]	xstorm Radek:	please say it will have Custom UI templates
[11:59]	Tillie Ariantho:	I have the friendlyness by sticking with Snowglobe. I want better TOOLS. :P
[11:59]	Jonathan Yap:	I would try to code it in, except I have not been able to get all the parts loaded to compile the source
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	I think the Viewer team is considering their mesh project to be for the non-noob SL content creators.
[12:00]	xstorm Radek:	good
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, the C# project is also for content creators (scriptors).
[12:00]	Tillie Ariantho:	Meshes is again a thing that is only for the 3d designers, all the maya specialists will rock.
[12:00]	Faust Vollmar:	Lookin forward to the public beta on that one.
[12:00]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Tillie: llTextBox is something content creators would use for end-users, so having it in a client that is not the officially "mainstream" client makes it unsuitable for that purpose.
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Those are in progress now.
[12:00]	Tillie Ariantho:	Regular prim builders will look even worse.
[12:01]	Tillie Ariantho:	again
[12:01]	Tillie Ariantho:	after sculpties.
[12:01]	Faust Vollmar:	SL has hit the point where graphic design is a competitive requirement, unfortunately.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	There is no support for setting an object's text via a network packet to the server. That would have to be added before it could be opened up to viewer UI.
[12:01]	Faust Vollmar:	Not much can be done about it.
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	maya, is not the only 3d modeling package
[12:01]	Bronson Blackadder:	it would be nice to see options for twist and taper and shear in all three axis in prim building
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	It will be possible to import a lot of different models when mesh arrives
[12:02]	Faust Vollmar:	(I say that as someone with absolutely no graphic design capability, btw)
[12:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	or hollow in all three axis
[12:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	Sure not but there are tons of maya pros around, they will rock the meshes.
[12:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	I'd like some better support for regular prims and scripting and stuff.
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	The mesh team is counting on those Maya pros stepping up to the world.
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	I'm going to run and zap that mega prim above us ... thanks everyone for coming
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	more likely people will buy 3d things and resell them here
[12:03]	Phantom Ninetails:	Thanks for the office hour Simon, Andrew
[12:03]	Tillie Ariantho:	Pop the magic sculpty... *sings*
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	or "import" them from well know games
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[12:03]	xstorm Radek:	thank you simon and andrew
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I've got to go too. Besides fixing an exploit I need to do some internal triage stuff today. Bug sorting.
[12:03]	Faust Vollmar:	Yeah haha Meshes are a copyright nightmare.
[12:03]	Tillie Ariantho:	Rex: you mean: they will rip all kind of stuff and import here.
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming.
[12:03]	Simon Linden:	Bye everyone - thanks for coming
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew

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