User:CG Linden/2008-07-08

Transcript of CG Linden's office hours:

[8:16]	Jenika's Glasses - Oval Frame w/Clip-Ons: Say '/1 menu' or touch the glasses to open the control panel.
[8:16]	ZHAO-Outrider Male Poses (right click and select wear): 2282 bytes free
[8:16]	Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[8:16]	Radar HUD v1.1: Type /3help for a summary of the commands.
[8:16]	MineSweeper v2.1j:	.. .. .. .. .. secondlife:///app/teleport/Longfellow/194/55/26
	Arcadia Jonson won L$12 with a score of 90
[8:17]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. and here coems cg!
[8:17]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. wooot
[8:17]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. yay...
[8:17]	CG Linden:	sorry - ws late
[8:17]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. all hat wiating on his sign for you paid off haley
[8:17]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. lol
[8:17]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. hi CG, was about to give up on you :)
[8:17]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Hey CG
[8:17]	LifeFactory Writer:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Good morning.
[8:18]	CG Linden:	I apologize, sorry
[8:18]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. morning cg and meh life happens
[8:18]	CG Linden:	Ok, let me find myself :)
[8:19]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. uh oh that could take years *giggles*
[8:19]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. there you are
[8:19]	Lamorna Proctor points with her foot
[8:19]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. look
[8:19]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. :-)
[8:19]	CG Linden:	heh :)
[8:19]	HALEY Salomon gave you waiting for CG..
[8:20]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. heh you have a logo for yoru group now cg, thanks to haley
[8:20]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Good evening all from the outback of Afghanistan.
[8:21]	CG Linden:	Ok.... so this week, as blogged. there will be a server roll
[8:21]	LifeFactory Writer:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Amazing, Timmy!
[8:21]	CG Linden:	nice
[8:21]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. hmm welcome timmy
[8:21]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. wow how cool
[8:21]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. server roll, is that like a dinner roll?
[8:22]	CG Linden:	we do a "rolling restart", so we upgrade one sim host at a time
[8:22]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. what all is in this one cg? and have they anounced the plans for the next?
[8:22]	CG Linden:	so people can move elsewhere and return 5-10 minutes laters
[8:22]	Timmy Naglo chuckles.. sounds like what I have to do after a power outage here.
[8:23]	CG Linden:	I think this time, the blog has all of the fixes listed
[8:23]	CG Linden:	http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/03/rolling-restart-tuewedthu-july-8-10-please-test-sever-version-123-on-the-preview-grid-now/
[8:24]	CG Linden:	essentially, *not* mono, but some physics bugs
[8:24]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. afk
[8:25]	CG Linden:	all in all, few code changes this time around/
[8:25]	CG Linden:	hopefully it will go well
[8:25]	CG Linden:	viewer is more interesting
[8:25]	CG Linden:	mono is going out in 2-3 weeks
[8:25]	CG Linden:	btw
[8:25]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. yay!
[8:26]	CG Linden:	so for the viewer, the next RC will feature switchable skins
[8:26]	CG Linden:	still working out the details for that one
[8:26]	CG Linden:	but the BSI may see their first action
[8:27]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. any word on if the map LM bug will be fixed in this viewer?
[8:27]	CG Linden:	let me see....
[8:28]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. So the next manditory vewier update will be in 2 or 3 weeks.
[8:28]	CG Linden:	I don't think so.
[8:28]	CG Linden:	no mandatory update is planned
[8:28]	CG Linden:	you can keep 1.19.x, if you want :)
[8:29]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. what about the new ll API calls? You presumably need a new viewer for them?
[8:29]	CG Linden:	but 1.20.x is a real improvement - lots of crash fixes
[8:29]	CG Linden:	now 1.20 will not have the mono support
[8:29]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. oh yes. I actually love this line of rcs. ive crashed less then a dozen times with 11
[8:29]	CG Linden:	that will be in 1.21
[8:30]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. btw, I want to mention something. A lot of the aggravations that we all felt with how the servers behaved a couple months ago have been steadily going away. there are occasional glitches, but whatever you're dong, keep it up.
[8:30]	CG Linden:	well, that's a combination of things, but the main contibutor was a hardware upgrade of the db machines, which will buy us a couple of months...
[8:30]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. agreed
[8:31]	CG Linden:	we hope that by then web services will be at a point where they can pick up the excess
[8:31]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. but, any word on the moving/non-moving prim problem?
[8:31]	CG Linden:	but that's dificult.
[8:31]	CG Linden:	won't be fixed this time around, I fear
[8:31]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. :(
[8:31]	CG Linden:	but may be in the mono server push
[8:31]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. CG, pardon my ignorance, but why can't the hardware geeks, or the software geeks fix the asset server issue once and for all?
[8:32]	CG Linden:	I'll ask... I haven't seen the fix in the merge queue yet
[8:32]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. yep
[8:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Asset Servers are Sim Side
[8:32]	CG Linden:	"asset server" is a complicated bit.. it's not something ou can easily "fix once and for all"
[8:33]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Anndromeda Parx [30m]
[8:33]	CG Linden:	as it turns out, it's actually working quite well.....
[8:33]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Anndromeda Parx [37m]
[8:33]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Not last night it wasnt
[8:33]	CG Linden:	let me see if I can find the graphics
[8:33]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Will the "web services" correct some of the problems?
[8:33]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Anndromeda Parx [28m]
[8:33]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. at least its only crashing for some areas at a time now instead of the whole grid
[8:34]	CG Linden:	no, that's a different system.
[8:34]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. where i was last night NO issues with assets at all
[8:34]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Well I was locked out for nearly an hour
[8:34]	CG Linden:	last night or yesterday, we had an inventory db server crash
[8:34]	CG Linden:	when that happens, everyone on that inventory server is blocked
[8:34]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I mean, I do pretty well from out here on a satcom link. Most of my crashing can be summed up by my shot going down.
[8:34]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. hm... that explains why I stayed in-world and Aargle got booted
[8:34]	CG Linden:	until we can promote the slave server to master
[8:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Is that what crashed me? I had the feeling that others just remained
[8:35]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. lol.... Arawn, glad to hear it wasn't just me.
[8:35]	CG Linden:	we may be able to get quicker on that, but with the current architecture and mysql, that's how it works
[8:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. There were six or eight talking, and if one in sixteen got dumped, then I was just unlucky
[8:36]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. CG, wouldn't a maintream SQL service like MS SQL or Oracle do better than some shareware like MySQL?
[8:37]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I've wondered that myself.
[8:37]	CG Linden:	That's our asset problem :)
[8:38]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I read that FaceBook has simular server cashe problems.. one of the methods they are using to deal with the load is to use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memcache
[8:38]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. oracle wont do well what sl needs. at least ive heard that from several lindens now
[8:38]	CG Linden:	that is what the web servives will do too, or something similar
[8:38]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I will see if I can find the original interview .. it was at a conference
[8:39]	CG Linden:	the main objective is to shield the database from repetitive queries and offload the work of compiling the result of complx queries
[8:39]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. facebook and SL have simular issues ..about data retrievel
[8:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Why would I crash, on a DataBase Server? Shouldn't I simply have loss of access?
[8:39]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Careerbuilder has the same problem, being one of the biggest jobsites around.
[8:40]	CG Linden:	I don't know why your vierwer crashed
[8:40]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. CG, we are looking a graphic of the database growth over the last 6 months?
[8:40]	CG Linden:	if you were inworld, you'd simply not be able to TP or rez
[8:40]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. most of us had a totally good weekend,, the best we've had in a long time,, and thank you!
[8:40]	CG Linden:	ind if you're outside, you wouldn't be able to log on
[8:41]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. the issues are in cacheing the indexes to minimize disk accesses per inquery .. as you can imagine
[8:41]	CG Linden:	the chart shows asset growth
[8:41]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 210 Terabytes?
[8:41]	CG Linden:	yep
[8:41]	CG Linden:	neat, eh?
[8:41]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. what a load of garbage we all produce :)
[8:41]	CG Linden:	we suspect 80% of this is actually garbage
[8:41]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. LOL
[8:42]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. OWWIE and I thougth my media drive was overloaded at 1 TB.
[8:42]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. good god, sl is starting to become like our governments
[8:42]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. heheh
[8:42]	CG Linden:	but finding the unreferenced archived items is very very hard
[8:42]	Aazy Harbour starts to compile a list of competitor's products
[8:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Diskspace is as cheap as the Desert Sands, and costs a hell of a lot in Camels
[8:42]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. CG, is there a way of cloning this DB and running a purge and squash on it?
[8:43]	CG Linden:	we have a 16 node hadoop cluster working on locating unreferenced items
[8:43]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. the clone would be out of date before you finished cloning it
[8:43]	CG Linden:	the problem is that references can be anywhere
[8:43]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Thats a great use for something like Hadoop :)
[8:43]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if a prioritized defrag might be a salable service, with frequently used items being made convenient, and unused items least
[8:43]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. is it simply deleting those items or is it looking also for breaks in references?
[8:43]	CG Linden:	they can even be in the script code
[8:44]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. oh, forgot about that. I have too many things I build that just have a UID in a script
[8:44]	CG Linden:	so just getting those references is hard
[8:44]	Cummere Mayo notes shes had some pretty random disapearances from her inv lately, and soem of the things appearing back in wierd places
[8:44]	CG Linden:	we have to parse all sim states
[8:44]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. or maybe even pulled from a NC
[8:44]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. The clone may be out of date, but once the database is purged and squashed, it can be updated with the transaction logs of the live database.
[8:45]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. It is my understand that the asset server is a file store and note a database. The inventory server contains the database. Correct?
[8:45]	CG Linden:	I don't think you appreciate the magnitude of 210 TB
[8:45]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. purging and squashing is how I keep my figure trim
[8:45]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. *understanding
[8:45]	CG Linden:	we actually do have a replica
[8:45]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. aazy >.>
[8:45]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. (boy my typing stinks. I need more coffee!)
[8:45]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. hahah Aazy
[8:45]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. what worries me is that SL is 5 years old. How big will the asset server database be in 5 year's time?
[8:45]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Mr. Linden, I do apreciate the size of 210 Terabytes.
[8:45]	CG Linden:	well, we hope that we get garbage collection to work by then.
[8:46]	Arawn Spitteler tries to remember, if anything comes after Tera
[8:46]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Peta
[8:46]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. perhaps we need an unused search in inventory
[8:46]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .2 of a petabyte? (as opposed to "pita bite" which would imply lebanese cooking)
[8:46]	LifeFactory Writer:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I am so sorry to slip out...first world calling. Enjoy your days!
[8:46]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. timmy it would take at least a couple of weeks to move that, THEN yould have to double check make sure nothing purged that shouldnt be, THEN upstate it.. AND still take the main database offline for two weeks
[8:47]	CG Linden:	with good garbage collection, I think it's easier to justify spendig money on more asset cluster nodes
[8:47]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Why take the main db off line for two weeks?
[8:47]	CG Linden:	right ow, we've essentially let them accumulate
[8:47]	CG Linden:	the plateaus and dips you see indicate the time we started compressing them
[8:47]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. becuase you cant really move it back without taking it offline, otherwise youll still get a hell of a lot of missing stuff
[8:48]	CG Linden:	garbage collection works essentially by scanning all assets and all simstates for references, storing the references, then scanning all of the assets and deleting thiose which are not referenced
[8:49]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. So, you let the transaction logs replay into the clone until everything is caught up, then make that clone the master database.
[8:49]	CG Linden:	that's not what we do... the asset store is not a database btw
[8:49]	CG Linden:	it's just a huge set of file servers
[8:49]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. but when you move the clone over or switch to the clone that still takes time AND still requires downtime
[8:49]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. yeah... don't want to do the "parent of the teenager" housecleaning technique: "while you were away, we cleaned out the garbage: your old baseball cards, some signed Pink Floyd album, etc."
[8:50]	CG Linden:	we do have inventory db hosts which store the references to the file server
[8:50]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. and thats even harder lol
[8:50]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. oh? you're not telling me that all my items in inventory are individual files in a file directory?
[8:50]	CG Linden:	and thise are managed using mysql's master/slabe stuff
[8:50]	CG Linden:	yes they are
[8:50]	CG Linden:	why would you do anything else
[8:50]	Timmy Naglo shudders!
[8:50]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. cg how do your garbage collections make sure that things with broken references arent deleted along with those with none?
[8:51]	CG Linden:	well, they are on specialiazed web servers to be precuse
[8:51]	CG Linden:	what do you mean broken references?
[8:52]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. if an entry gets corrupted and the reference "breaks" no longer points where its suppsoed to
[8:52]	pablo98 Andel:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. does anybody know how 2 play this game good
[8:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. With keys, that would be a dead reference
[8:52]	CG Linden:	in that case the object is broken and can't be used to access the referenced object anyway
[8:53]	pablo98 Andel:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. could somebody help me
[8:53]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. hello pablo
[8:53]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. what do you need hun?
[8:53]	CG Linden:	and if that one object was the last reference, then you're screwed anyway
[8:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Unless you've backed the connection up in a string somewhere.
[8:53]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I would think that if you used a DB, whether you built it on a B-tree/jet database or a SQL database, you could index it and allow it to work much faster than a file server.
[8:53]	CG Linden:	in which case it isn;t the last object
[8:53]	pablo98 Andel:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. i just started this game yesterday
[8:54]	CG Linden:	Timmy, all we need is order of 1 access to the serialized object representation, stored in a file
[8:54]	CG Linden:	that's what those boxes give us
[8:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Oh, how to play Second Life? It's more an environment, than an actual game. What sort of game would you like?
[8:54]	CG Linden:	all the complex inventory stuff is done in the invenoty databases, which shuffle the uuids instead iof shuffling the data itself
[8:55]	CG Linden:	I don't think having blobs in a database buys you anything here
[8:55]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. ok pablo lets talk in ims so we dont disrupt the meeting ill fgive you waht help i can
[8:55]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. so the "asset server" is not the same as the inventory database.
[8:55]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Its a common architecture. And de-couples the payload from the metadata.
[8:55]	CG Linden:	no, sorry, I thought you knew that :)
[8:56]	CG Linden:	we have the asset cluster, which is 2x56 6TB nodes
[8:56]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. No. I didn't. :-) I'm just a humble e-mail geed.
[8:56]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. geek
[8:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. If the Keys are what get shuffled, how much dead data has to be bypassed, when a key accesses?
[8:56]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I think a lot of people have that confusion CG. And interchange the two terms without regard.
[8:56]	CG Linden:	and we have inventory databases, 20 currently, all master/slave paurs
[8:56]	CG Linden:	every resident is assigned a specific inventory database
[8:57]	CG Linden:	we manually rebalance by sending new registrations to the least used inventory database
[8:57]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I'd really like to read about the infrastructure that LL uses for Secondlife. But I'm sure that there would be a lot of propriatary information that would have to be redacted.
[8:57]	CG Linden:	it actually works quite well :)
[8:57]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Timmy most of it is on the Wiki
[8:58]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Bri, you assume that I can reach the Wiki.
[8:58]	CG Linden:	I'll make a diagram someday :)
[8:58]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I can't believe I didn't bookmark it - but the problems sl faces with data retrievel are not unique.. facebook and google and many others deal with the same problems .. facebook interview I saw talked about grouping small and large images into a metablock of set size, and have the reference IDstruc include Inode number
[8:58]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. If you cant maybe one of us could save it in an archive or as a PDF for you.
[8:58]	CG Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com :)
[8:58]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. If you can save it as a PDF, that would be great.
[8:59]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. are you unable to access that URL from where you are due to filtering?
[8:59]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I have the same problem with Microsoft and it's documentation for Exchange, it's all "web based", but it's a PITA to get to it from here.
[8:59]	CG Linden:	well, anyway, time's up already...
[8:59]	CG Linden:	wanted to chat a little more about viewer stuff
[9:00]	CG Linden:	otoh, I was 15 mins late...
[9:00]	Aazy Harbour hits CG with a wet noodle
[9:00]	CG Linden:	as I said, viewer RC13 this week features switchabkle skins and little else
[9:00]	Timmy Naglo tosses an Punch Card.
[9:00]	CG Linden:	the mono support will be in the 1.21 series
[9:00]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. want to give us a hint how to switch them before they come???
[9:01]	Arawn Spitteler had an interesting oddity, where a bridge was acting phantom, while set not phantom, and changing viewers fixed it for others.
[9:01]	CG Linden:	and this is currently the biggest risk
[9:01]	CG Linden:	I actually haven't seen the code, Haley
[9:01]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. o0
[9:01]	CG Linden:	I asssume it;s someplace in the preferences, but i don;t know
[9:01]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. grrrr afk
[9:02]	CG Linden:	the uv picking is likely to be in the mono server release, but may end up in the next one... but at this point it's looking as if it will be in
[9:02]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. yay
[9:02]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ooohh nice
[9:02]	CG Linden:	the UI part of that will also be in 1.21 at the earliest
[9:03]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. so much of what I make will drop 80-90% of their prims
[9:03]	CG Linden:	what would you guys like me to prepare for Friday?
[9:03]	CG Linden:	I can go over the release process
[9:03]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Chinese stir fry?
[9:03]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. breakfast??
[9:03]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Yes American breakfast with pancakes:-0
[9:03]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. is there a technical reason people can only have one 'partner'? It seams arbitrary?
[9:03]	CG Linden:	or I can attempt to draw a diagram of the servier side :)
[9:03]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if CG could mount a live Video Stream Server on his plane...
[9:04]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. that wuld be lovely,,, diagrams really help a lot
[9:04]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I'm with Arawn
[9:04]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. You starting a harem Tommy?
[9:04]	Arawn Spitteler supports the right of PolyAmoury
[9:04]	CG Linden:	I think we would need to add a table and join if we had more than one partner...
[9:04]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. lol @ amber
[9:04]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. no - it's just a limit, and I would like to think sl is about expanding limits
[9:05]	CG Linden:	well, that specific limit is very unlikely to change
[9:05]	CG Linden:	talking about limits...
[9:05]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. save chat?
[9:05]	Arawn Spitteler wants groups to enjoy Avatar Privileges.
[9:05]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. tommy, believe it or not there are several laws they could potentially run up against if they officially allowed polygamy here
[9:06]	CG Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits
[9:06]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. sl will have to be careful not to look like it is restricting a type of lifestye.. or discurrage people from experiementing ..
[9:07]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. oh, heck, there are existing partnerships not legal in my state
[9:07]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. personally I would like to see SL revisit what constitutes "ageplay". My daughter is getting greived from other users for the size of her AVie.
[9:07]	CG Linden:	well, you can use your picks :) many people already use them for friends instead of locations
[9:07]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. poligiamy laws are based on business mondel .. and may be practical to solve some sociaity problems today
[9:07]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. how could you even possibly get one wife ,, without spiffing up a little Tommy ??
[9:07]	CG Linden:	Timmy, I'm not in G-Team, please bring it up with them...
[9:07]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I don't care about partners - per say, it's just that it's a limit that seems arbitrary and restrictive
[9:08]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. okay that was a joke
[9:08]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. My wife would love to have a second or third wife to help.
[9:08]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ok - ty
[9:08]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. sen Exonar [27m]
[9:08]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. by the way, the g-team meetings are tomorrow and saturday
[9:08]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. good ty
[9:08]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. tomorrow at 10SLT, and saturday noon
[9:08]	CG Linden:	So I guess server side diagram is it.
[9:09]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. thank you
[9:09]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. that's the best place for questions about things like ageplay
[9:09]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. sen Exonar [22m]
[9:09]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Aazy, what is the "g-team"?
[9:09]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. governance team.
[9:09]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. all linden guys do not do all things ,,
[9:09]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Zara, Trinity, Socrates, Plexus and Teagen Linden
[9:09]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. are they in the "events" database?
[9:10]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. yes, I beleve so
[9:10]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Kremer is the g-team location
[9:10]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. okay.. I'lll see what I can find.
[9:10]	Close Range:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. sen Exonar [23m]
[9:10]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. though, CG, would it ever make sense to have a single location for meetings?
[9:10]	TommyJW Ninetails:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I don't see g-team referenced in event discussions
[9:10]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. look at Zara Linden's profile. I think i'ts in there.
[9:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours/GTeam
[9:11]	CG Linden:	and remove from us the joy of creating mayhem and confusion?
[9:11]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. LOL
[9:11]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. rofl
[9:11]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ROFL
[9:11]	CG Linden:	and besides, some of us like building stuff :)
[9:11]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. there would be no joy in one meeting running into another?
[9:11]	Arawn Spitteler built a vehicle, usable on Ground or Rail
[9:11]	CG Linden:	and it performs a nice little function by forcing potential attendees to o a little homework
[9:11]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. lolyes but cg, hy is your seating area on ARic's land
[9:11]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. *giggles*
[9:12]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. *why
[9:12]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Mayhem and confusion.. you sound like the local Ali-babbas.
[9:12]	CG Linden:	I'm here with his permission and blessing
[9:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Aric is his alt
[9:12]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. make a big cruise ship and have meetings on the move.
[9:12]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. UGH I get sea sick even here.
[9:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Oh, you have to shut down Camera Smoothing
[9:13]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. oh yeah that was a great hint,, set it to zero
[9:13]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Columbus sailed the deep blue sea in 1493
[9:13]	Cummere Mayo nods camera smoothing is nything but lol
[9:13]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1492!
[9:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Edit -> Preferences -> Camera?
[9:13]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. that doesn't rhyme
[9:14]	CG Linden:	summary: 1.23 server (pre-mono) this week, 1.24 server (mono) in 3 weeks
[9:14]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue!
[9:14]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. so cg any word yet on i think its 2511 the reason woepons arent working right?
[9:14]	CG Linden:	1.20 RC13 this week, hopefully final RC next week, 1.21 RC the week after
[9:14]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. sure it wasn't: Columbus chased the setting sun in 1491?
[9:14]	Timmy Naglo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I'm sure.
[9:15]	CG Linden:	Andrew came back from vacation, so stuff is going to happen again in physics...
[9:15]	Arawn Spitteler recites: In Fourteen Hundred and Ninety Two, Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue, based on navigational records of St. Brendan
[9:15]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. yay
[9:15]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. :)
[9:15]	CG Linden:	Oh, and I am now putting the chat logs of these meetings on the wiki'
[9:15]	Cummere Mayo makes a note to place a canon on his land that fires at him till he fixes weopons
[9:15]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I like my rhymes better.... history will just have to catch up with me.
[9:16]	Timmy Naglo digs through his inventory looking for the avie cannon.
[9:16]	CG Linden:	see https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:CG_Linden/Office_Hours
[9:16]	Arawn Spitteler'll eventually discover, what year the Templar Navy sailed back from the Americas.
[9:16]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. yay Ill add that into the summory of the groups
[9:16]	CG Linden:	any other questions?
[9:16]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. *group
[9:16]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. thanks CG
[9:17]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. besides... isn't it opinions that matter? I just was in the losing minority in Tiny Empires for the question: Is 35 furlongs more than 1240 rods?
[9:17]	Cummere Mayo:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. yes cg wheres our bribe for attending *giggles*
[9:17]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. and googled the correct conversion
[9:17]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. *I googled
[9:17]	Lamorna Proctor boogles
[9:17]	CG Linden:	I appreciate your patience, sorry I was late :)
[9:17]	Aazy Harbour:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. I need to boogie... CG, thanks again for a great meeting
[9:18]	Benno Maktoum:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Thank u Cg
[9:18]	HALEY Salomon:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. we don't mind we chatted
[9:18]	Lamorna Proctor:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. thanks CG
[9:18]	Amber DeCuir:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. save chat?
[9:18]	CG Linden:	thanks :)
[9:18]	Bri Gufler:	.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Thanks CG.