Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-10-10

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[2013/10/10 15:03]  Rex Cronon: hi simon
[2013/10/10 15:03]  Maestro Linden: Okay, with Simon here, I think we have quorum
[2013/10/10 15:03]  Maestro Linden: let's get started: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/10/10 15:03]  Jenna Felton: hi Maestro and Simon :)
[2013/10/10 15:04]  Lucia Nightfire: theres a meeting?
[2013/10/10 15:04]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/10 15:04]  Maestro Linden: yes there is!
[2013/10/10 15:04]  Maestro Linden: so it looks like we just have the usual server updates (there aren't many) and an item from Jenna
[2013/10/10 15:04]  Maestro Linden: Baker wants to talk about group ban stuff as well
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Rex Cronon: why do i get notices from groups on teh main grid here?
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Maestro Linden: if somebody sends a notice now, do you see it inworld?
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Sovereign Engineer: probably leftovers you didnt clear from the client?
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Maestro Linden: one thing that throws me off sometimes..
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Maestro Linden: yes, that
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Sovereign Engineer: it maintains them in a local notifications.xml cache
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Maestro Linden: notifications persist between viewer sessions, even when you changed grids
[2013/10/10 15:05]  Sovereign Engineer: until you clear them out :P
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Rex Cronon: oh. ok. thanks:)
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Simon Linden: Those are all stored locally for your viewer
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Simon Linden: That would be a good viewer bug to fix
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Rex Cronon: didnt clean them on main
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, I guess the viewer could detect the grid change and clear them out
[2013/10/10 15:06]  Maestro Linden: or maintain per-grid notifications.xml files
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Miguael Liamano: or it could store them on a different file, per grid
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Sovereign Engineer: i think a per-grid notifications.xml would be better for user experience :P
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Miguael Liamano: ^^
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Rex Cronon: different file for each grid sounds good:)
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Maestro Linden: So, the updates..
[2013/10/10 15:07]  Maestro Linden: once again, the main channel didn't get rolled
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Maestro Linden: because last week's RC had a bug that annoyed quite a few people
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Sovereign Engineer: <.<
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Lucia Nightfire: angry birdies
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Baker Linden: I wanted to give everyone an update on the group ban project. I have deployed the server image to an internal dev grid, and will be giving a demo of it after the meeting to my testers (who also happen to be Maestro and Caleb).  Next week I'm hoping for an aditi roll if I'm lucky, or have it ready for deploy next week, with the deploy happening two weeks from now.
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Maestro Linden: the bug was that llGetCameraRot() would only reflect rotational changes of >10 degrees
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Baker Linden: on Aditi. Then it'll be on to agni after that
[2013/10/10 15:08]  Maestro Linden: which was bad for mouselook guns and such
[2013/10/10 15:09]  Maestro Linden: the llGetCameraRot() bug is fixed in this week's RC update
[2013/10/10 15:09]  Miguael Liamano: Sweet
[2013/10/10 15:09]  Maestro Linden: which is actually the only change since last week's RC version
[2013/10/10 15:09]  Lucia Nightfire: didn't BUG-4024 get fixed too?
[2013/10/10 15:10]  Maestro Linden: so bug-4024 is about vehicles being autoreturned when they region cross, which also leaves 'ghost' collision bodies of them
[2013/10/10 15:11]  Maestro Linden: this bug is not fixed in the RC that went out this week, but is scheduled to be fixed in our next server maintenance RC
[2013/10/10 15:12]  Maestro Linden: also, the next server maintenance RC will fix the bug where avatars and objects are visually 'ghosted' at region borders
[2013/10/10 15:12]  xstorm Radek: group ban ? i hope it will not do what estate ban did when it gone buggy and bam every one
[2013/10/10 15:12]  Simon Linden: we really don't want to ban everyone either
[2013/10/10 15:12]  Jenna Felton: he
[2013/10/10 15:13]  Baker Linden: That's what I hope will get caught in testing :)
[2013/10/10 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: I have a Q about the group bans. If the avatar group banned is on a viewer without the group ban code, can they be banned?
[2013/10/10 15:13]  xstorm Radek: i still remember the first sl ban it was forever bam no returns
[2013/10/10 15:13]  xstorm Radek: ban
[2013/10/10 15:13]  Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Jenna Felton! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2013/10/10 15:13]  Lucia Nightfire: I would hope, lol
[2013/10/10 15:14]  xstorm Radek: its not funny if your on that end of a ban error to never get back in
[2013/10/10 15:14]  Maestro Linden: I'm pretty sure that would have to work, Whirly
[2013/10/10 15:14]  Simon Linden: Yes, Whirly - the bans are enforced server side
[2013/10/10 15:14]  Maestro Linden: that will be a test case (make sure they know why they can't join)
[2013/10/10 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah I was just wanting to make sure that part was totally serverside & a viewer couldnt ignore it like it can ignore eject from group & group chat mute
[2013/10/10 15:15]  xstorm Radek: bad memorys from 2004 :(
[2013/10/10 15:15]  Simon Linden: you can't see or manage the group bans without a supporting viewer, of course, but they'll be enforces on the server
[2013/10/10 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: Okay cool
[2013/10/10 15:15]  Simon Linden: enforced*
[2013/10/10 15:15]  Maestro Linden: or 'no flying on this parcel' in the past? :)
[2013/10/10 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: flight features bypass no fly, lol
[2013/10/10 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: *feathers
[2013/10/10 15:16]  Jenna Felton: the god mode no more work for fly?
[2013/10/10 15:16]  xstorm Radek: I can no longer see any bugs for me to test any more
[2013/10/10 15:16]  Jenna Felton: a nightmare, xstorm :)
[2013/10/10 15:16]  xstorm Radek: No god mode for you
[2013/10/10 15:17]  xstorm Radek: i happen to love bugs
[2013/10/10 15:17]  Whirly Fizzle: Build viewer-interesting if you like bugs :D
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Rex Cronon: i guess u alread know how the "bomb" works and how to stop it xstorm:)
[2013/10/10 15:18]  xstorm Radek: build viewer whats that ?
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Lucia Nightfire: ty Rex, forgot what I was gonna ask later
[2013/10/10 15:18]  xstorm Radek: yesbomb is a old toy
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Lucia Nightfire: that crap keeps getting used in WT...
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Rex Cronon: np:)
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Maestro Linden: 'viewer-interesting' is the name of the viewer branch with interest list (scene loading) improvements
[2013/10/10 15:18]  Jenna Felton: what is WT?
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Sovereign Engineer: Is there a server side component needed for that to function correctly? :P
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Rex Cronon: wt aka swt aka sandbox weapons testing
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Jenna Felton: ah, thank you
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Rex Cronon: np
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Maestro Linden: yes, there have been some recent server changes to fix bugs that only affected server-interesting
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Maestro Linden: er,
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Maestro Linden: viewer-interesting
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Sovereign Engineer: ahh okay wanted to know because we were poking it and it had some pretty uh..glaring bugs
[2013/10/10 15:19]  Whirly Fizzle: Maestro, is it correct that viewer-interesting needs some serverside changes to work? Currently on main grid it is pretty bad for not rendering a lot of objects.
[2013/10/10 15:19]  xstorm Radek: will it have viewer side physics ?
[2013/10/10 15:20]  Maestro Linden: nope, nothing that fancy, xstorm.  just object viewing changes
[2013/10/10 15:20]  Rex Cronon: i am against viewer side physics. they r going to fry my cpu
[2013/10/10 15:21]  xstorm Radek: hhhmmmm what about object mapping or save as obj ?
[2013/10/10 15:21]  Lucia Nightfire: sculpt physics kill servers
[2013/10/10 15:21]  Maestro Linden: I believe it ought to basically work on current production servers, Whirly
[2013/10/10 15:21]  Whirly Fizzle: Okay so should we file JIRAs for it? because its bad lol
[2013/10/10 15:21]  Maestro Linden: recent bugs were things about certain objects not appearing or not loading in the  correct order
[2013/10/10 15:21]  Simon Linden: It should, but it's also going to support some new features that Andrew has been putting into the servers
[2013/10/10 15:21]  xstorm Radek: object meshing is nice you know
[2013/10/10 15:22]  Sovereign Engineer: yeah theres a few fun things dont load anymore in viewer-interesting bugs :P
[2013/10/10 15:22]  Whirly Fizzle: The objects that don't render so not render when you edit them, YP out & back also doesn't work. You have to relog.
[2013/10/10 15:22]  Sovereign Engineer: things that are already in the viewers object cache specifically.
[2013/10/10 15:22]  Jenna Felton: saving prim build as .dae to upload as mesh, is generally a cool idea and kinda must-be in the LL viewer. because it wil return building stuff into inwold experience
[2013/10/10 15:22]  Whirly Fizzle: *TP
[2013/10/10 15:22]  xstorm Radek: oh i have seen objects not showing but i think its a thread time out problem
[2013/10/10 15:23]  Maestro Linden: Hm, I'd recommend you check with Andrew first, Whirly.  To make sure the changeset you have is recent enough and so forth
[2013/10/10 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Also it seems to be the same objects failing for everyone on the viewer-interesting. Sov & myself were seeing the same things not rezzing.
[2013/10/10 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Im on tip
[2013/10/10 15:23]  Sovereign Engineer: I'm also on tip
[2013/10/10 15:24]  xstorm Radek: well if thats the case then its thread time out problem may be slow call to the server assets update ?
[2013/10/10 15:24]  xstorm Radek: but im just crazy ;)
[2013/10/10 15:25]  Sovereign Engineer: ^that
[2013/10/10 15:25]  Sovereign Engineer: :>
[2013/10/10 15:25]  Sovereign Engineer: /me looks all cute and innocent after his comment.
[2013/10/10 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: My house...what renders of it http://i.imgur.com/mrngVy0.jpg Nothing will make those prims render apart from a relog. After relog: http://i.imgur.com/ivzNoDo.jpg
[2013/10/10 15:25]  xstorm Radek: let me look
[2013/10/10 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: Bounding boxes for missing stuff do not show either, or object updates
[2013/10/10 15:26]  xstorm Radek: oh i still hate jpg files they can hold a virus
[2013/10/10 15:26]  Ardy Lay: wear your aluminum hat
[2013/10/10 15:26]  Maestro Linden: that's pretty bad
[2013/10/10 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Simon Linden: That means your viewer doesn't know anything about the objects, Whirly ... as opposed to those which you can right-click and make appear.   That trick just changed the status of something your viewer already had
[2013/10/10 15:27]  xstorm Radek: Whirly i have seen that problem not ony in second life but opensim too
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Miguael Liamano: Drake, I dont' have those rezzing issues.
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: Iy only seems to happen once you have region objects cached and then go back to that region after a relog
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: *It
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Sovereign Engineer: xstorm we're talking about a viewer that LL doesn't have binary builds of out yet. :P
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: But...really easy to repro. Its much worse then the current missing prims issue
[2013/10/10 15:27]  xstorm Radek: then it is viewer side and may be do to timeout problems
[2013/10/10 15:27]  Sovereign Engineer: It's not timeout problems.
[2013/10/10 15:28]  Maestro Linden: I guess something specific like a certain missing house would be good to get a bug report on
[2013/10/10 15:28]  xstorm Radek: no ?
[2013/10/10 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: Okay
[2013/10/10 15:28]  xstorm Radek: have you look at server side calls on the objects ?
[2013/10/10 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: The fact that bounding boxes for the missing stuff don't show, or object updates, or editing on the missing prims don't bring them back, does that mean its likely serverside rather then viewer?
[2013/10/10 15:29]  Maestro Linden: if you're building your own, then branch and changeset id would be the version number we're interested in (maybe date too?)
[2013/10/10 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: Okay
[2013/10/10 15:29]  Ardy Lay: THe object updates might be displayed at 0,0,0
[2013/10/10 15:29]  Maestro Linden: hm in that case, it means that it could be server
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: Thats why I thought it needed a server change too
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Maestro Linden: but doesn't' necessarily prove that it's the server  (maybe the server offered to send info about the house which the viewer opted to ignore)
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Sovereign Engineer: well I can actually select some of the missing stuff :D
[2013/10/10 15:30]  xstorm Radek: i do think server side like when we had dirty side ghost prims stopping people from moving after the prim was deleted inworld
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Miguael Liamano: interesting
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: You can? I couldnt
[2013/10/10 15:30]  Miguael Liamano: might be missing prims bug overlapping, no?
[2013/10/10 15:31]  Maestro Linden: it's possible that it could be a server bug.. even the devs have a difficult time determining if a bug is viewer or server side, sometimes
[2013/10/10 15:31]  xstorm Radek: i do hate to think it is server side again
[2013/10/10 15:31]  Maestro Linden: whirly: how did you arrive at that scene?
[2013/10/10 15:31]  Maestro Linden: by TP ?
[2013/10/10 15:31]  xstorm Radek: that was a very big mess last time
[2013/10/10 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: I TP'd in
[2013/10/10 15:32]  Maestro Linden: ah, that might be a known issue when using viewer-interesting, "objects sometimes fail to load after teleport"
[2013/10/10 15:32]  xstorm Radek: hhhhmmm may be fail to send data to agent ?
[2013/10/10 15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: But Ive reprod ion 3 different regions now. I also saw exactly the same objects failing to render on one region that Sovereign saw missing
[2013/10/10 15:32]  Greeter: :[1]: *** init ***
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh that could be it yes
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: Its always been after a TP
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Sovereign Engineer: i've had it after logging in.
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Sovereign Engineer: \o/
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: Into a region you already have cached
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Maestro Linden: that's SH-4552 (not that you can visit that jira), if you want to ask about it at server user group
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Miguael Liamano: I'm going to perform some tests too, I have a build
[2013/10/10 15:33]  Sovereign Engineer: for a region i already had cached.
[2013/10/10 15:33]  xstorm Radek: i can not say any more of what i know about the server side working do to nda
[2013/10/10 15:34]  xstorm Radek: if its server side you need a dev to do what the user did
[2013/10/10 15:34]  xstorm Radek: step by step to log it
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Jenna Felton: hi Tank
[2013/10/10 15:36]  TankMaster Finesmith: hi
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: Did anyone file render metadata -> physics shapes is instant CTD internally yet? I wasn't going to file issues really till it was at least a project viewer.
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: (Doesnt repro on releae)
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Ardy Lay: If you deleted the region's object cache file before teleporting into that region then the missing prims issues does not occur?
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: *release
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Sovereign Engineer: uh whirly are you on a self compile?
[2013/10/10 15:36]  Sovereign Engineer: >.>
[2013/10/10 15:37]  TankMaster Finesmith: yes she is
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, is that why that crashes?
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Sovereign Engineer: because physics shape needs havok/hacd to work or it just bombs out.
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Ardy Lay: Physics shape display uses the propriety Havoc code, tight?
[2013/10/10 15:37]  xstorm Radek: physic shapes ? as in mesh of sculptys hint hint lol
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Sovereign Engineer: yeah uses havok.
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Sovereign Engineer: :P
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Whirly Fizzle: OOOh okay. Scrap that one then :D
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Miguael Liamano: http://puu.sh/4MQrd.jpg
[2013/10/10 15:37]  Miguael Liamano: or not.
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: oh, right. that's self-compile.. okay.
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: :x
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Maestro Linden: it would be nice if it just did nothing if havok is missing, though
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Sovereign Engineer: though someone should probably someday add a check for physics decomp and return if false
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Sovereign Engineer: <.<
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: should still get a check if the viewer has the libs, and return an error message"
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Ardy Lay: That would be better
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: sdfsdf
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: dammit drake
[2013/10/10 15:38]  Miguael Liamano: XD
[2013/10/10 15:39]  Maestro Linden: yeah or grey out the UI for that option if it knows
[2013/10/10 15:39]  Sovereign Engineer: oh yeah you could grey out that ui option
[2013/10/10 15:39]  xstorm Radek: ??? did nothing is more coding :S
[2013/10/10 15:39]  Miguael Liamano: even better
[2013/10/10 15:39]  Sovereign Engineer: thats silly easy
[2013/10/10 15:39]  xstorm Radek: thats like saying you wish for the sun to shine but not be hot
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Ardy Lay: Are we open topic now?
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Maestro Linden: actually, we should get to Jenna's topic
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Maestro Linden: since it's on the agenda
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Jenna Felton: thank you Maestro :)
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Maestro Linden: then after that, open topic
[2013/10/10 15:40]  Maestro Linden: "
 
 For scripted Greeters and similar stuff made as a carpet and triggered on collision, it would be nice to have a facility detecting the collision on the prim (or even object) surface, but when the collision_start starts when the causer (an avatar or physical prim) touches the surface and collision_end triggers when the causer leaves the surface, but not as long the causer is stil on the surface. Like the llVolumeDetect works but without the causer is falling into the collision detecting object.
 
 At the moment when the causer stops walking on the greeter, the greeter detects collision_end and the collision event stops, even if the causer is stil standing on the carpet. This breaks some devices, although this is how collision is really supposed to work. Jenna Felton 11:23, 10 October 2013 (PDT) "
[2013/10/10 15:41]  xstorm Radek: oh that sounds nice so far
[2013/10/10 15:41]  Jenna Felton: yes, there was a report that with the last update a greeter stoped working that tedetedet the collision_end after the avatar left the prim. now it detects it when the avatar stps moving on the prim
[2013/10/10 15:42]  Maestro Linden: right, that sounds common for non-volumedetect collision reporting
[2013/10/10 15:42]  Maestro Linden: collision_end happens if the colliding object is at rest (such as an avatar standing still)
[2013/10/10 15:42]  Miguael Liamano: it detects if it stops moving? Awesome. Last time I made a greeter it spammed as long as the AV was on it
[2013/10/10 15:42]  Greeter: :[1]: *** init ***
[2013/10/10 15:42]  Maestro Linden: let's check
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: you must have used just collision
[2013/10/10 15:43]  collision reporter: collision_start# 0: hit 'Maestro Linden' e1a51880-d7b5-4c00-800d-91664f5b84c0
     of type 3
     owned by e1a51880-d7b5-4c00-800d-91664f5b84c0
     at our link #0
     with pos and vel <205.52960, 204.19740, 33.77782> <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000>
     and rotation <-0.00000, -0.00000, 0.98897, 0.14815>
.
.
.
[2013/10/10 15:43]  collision reporter: collision_end# 0: hit 'Maestro Linden' e1a51880-d7b5-4c00-800d-91664f5b84c0
     of type 3
     owned by e1a51880-d7b5-4c00-800d-91664f5b84c0
     at our link #0
     with pos and vel <205.52050, 204.33040, 33.77782> <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000>
     and rotation <-0.00000, -0.00000, 0.98471, 0.17421>
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Miguael Liamano: pretty
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: ty anti spam
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Whirly Fizzle: eeeeek
[2013/10/10 15:43]  TankMaster Finesmith: that works grate
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Maestro Linden: heh
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Miguael Liamano: lol
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Maestro Linden: or not
[2013/10/10 15:43]  xstorm Radek: spamming
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Rex Cronon: wooos
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Rex Cronon: wow
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Greeter: :[2]: collision (detected: 1, top with Jenna Felton)
.
.
.
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Greeter: :[78]: collision (detected: 1, top with Jenna Felton)
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Greeter: :[79]: collision (detected: 1, top with Jenna Felton)
[2013/10/10 15:43]  Greeter: :[80]: collision_end (detected: 1, top with Jenna Felton)
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: poor Rex and his bandwidth, this is gonna cost him a fortune, lol
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Maestro Linden: /me will trim this a bit for the transcript
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Miguael Liamano: XD
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Jenna Felton: sorry
[2013/10/10 15:44]  xstorm Radek: you know i have spamy things return to users lol
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Rex Cronon: u guys r killing me. lol
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Maestro Linden: if we comment out the collision()event, it should be calm
[2013/10/10 15:44]  TankMaster Finesmith: now look what youve done, meastro has to actually do work! :P
[2013/10/10 15:44]  xstorm Radek: ty
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Jenna Felton: i am sorry Maestro
[2013/10/10 15:44]  Maestro Linden: no worrise
[2013/10/10 15:45]  xstorm Radek: my computer reads at times for me and spamming hurts to hear it
[2013/10/10 15:45]  Rex Cronon: problem is the lag lucia
[2013/10/10 15:45]  Maestro Linden: it seems like volumedetect is behaving as you'd like it to.. but you just want a version that does volumedetect-style reporting and physically supports the avatar?
[2013/10/10 15:46]  Jenna Felton: however it seems to detect colision_stop while avatar is on the prim. in the past it did after the avie left the surface. Yes. i'd like to have it so that it waits with collision_end after i left the surface
[2013/10/10 15:47]  Jenna Felton: i had no track when it changed the behavior, though. The report was it changed with the last server update this week :)
[2013/10/10 15:47]  Maestro Linden: it's not too bad as long as collision() isn't chatting
[2013/10/10 15:47]  Rex Cronon: lol. please use llownersay:)
[2013/10/10 15:48]  Miguael Liamano: or llSay(DEBUG_CHANNEL
[2013/10/10 15:48]  Jenna Felton: the interesting part of the fact is, the collision event behaves now as intended :) but it seem to break scripted stuff that relied on the "wrong" behaviour.
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Miguael Liamano: >_<
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Maestro Linden: hm, I don't see spurious collision_end events with this box (it doesn't report that as my avatar is standing in it)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  shouts: stop
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Jenna Felton: so it would be nice to have the old behaviour too, to avoid sctripted filters and such
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[94]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[95]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[96]: collision_end (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[97]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[98]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[99]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[100]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[101]: collision (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
.
.
.
[2013/10/10 15:49]  Greeter: :[121]: collision_end (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:50]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol caleb, way to poke the bear
[2013/10/10 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: what also sucks is you can't set a collision filter inside a collision event and cancel queued collision events like you can with a 0 timer,, or listen remove or sensor remove
[2013/10/10 15:50]  Ardy Lay: He is just poking the low-bandwidth bears.
[2013/10/10 15:51]  Ardy Lay: Those are easy  to out run.
[2013/10/10 15:51]  Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Caleb Linden! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2013/10/10 15:51]  Jenna Felton: perhaps it is possible to have the collision_end to trigger if the causer left the bounding box that it entered when started the collision
[2013/10/10 15:52]  Maestro Linden: hm, how would the other collision behavior be implemented, in your mind?
[2013/10/10 15:52]  Maestro Linden: this area of behavior is pretty tricky, since you have all sorts of content relying on how things behave right now
[2013/10/10 15:52]  Jenna Felton: the collision_end should check if the causer is stil able to trigger the next collision_start and skip triggering than
[2013/10/10 15:53]  Jenna Felton: should means could :)
[2013/10/10 15:54]  Maestro Linden: in..  non-volumedetect cases, right?
[2013/10/10 15:54]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2013/10/10 15:54]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Maestro Linden: I could imagine somebody using the current behavior as an event trigger to know that an avatar standing on the floor stoppped moving,
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Maestro Linden: but I'm not sure if that content actually exists
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Greeter: :[1]: *** init ***
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Ardy Lay: Giant piano
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: make a change and wait for teh screaming
[2013/10/10 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/10 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: how it usually works right? lol
[2013/10/10 15:56]  Jenna Felton: :smiles
[2013/10/10 15:56]  Maestro Linden: yeah, there was a bit of that with past physics engine upgrades..
[2013/10/10 15:57]  Ardy Lay: "The implementation is the documentation" causes lots of problems between developers and users.
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Maestro Linden: Okay, we're almost out of time - any last minute topics?
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Jenna Felton: i thought it hapenes in this way, somethimes changed and the reporter screamed out that it not works anymore
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: please fix teh bombing of teh sandboxes, lol
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Ardy Lay: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44779584/Particle%20System%20Debug.jpg
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Ardy Lay: Anybody miss that?
[2013/10/10 15:58]  Rex Cronon: before this meeting ends there is something relatively important that needs to be brought to attention. new members of the "second life beta" group by default can't hear nor say anything in group chat. they think group is dead. could the group info give a notice that they need to have a group member change their status in order to be able to hear and talk in group chat?
[2013/10/10 15:59]  TankMaster Finesmith: theres a few groups with that issue, rex
[2013/10/10 15:59]  Greeter: :[2]: collision_start (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:59]  Greeter: :[3]: collision_end (detected: 1, top with Caleb Linden)
[2013/10/10 15:59]  TankMaster Finesmith: builders burery you werent able to sent any messages in either earlier this week
[2013/10/10 15:59]  Rex Cronon: i also agree that the "bomb" should be fixed
[2013/10/10 15:59]  Maestro Linden: Hm, it's too bad that there's no "see group chat" option that lets you see some of the activity without being able to spam
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: heh
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Jenna Felton: a new TOD point found :)
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Rex Cronon: people don't even know they r supposed to have somebody else chage their group title
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Jenna Felton: TODO*
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Maestro Linden: I'll see about adding that to the group description if it's not there already, Rex
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Rex Cronon: they leave the group because of that
[2013/10/10 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: I talked with teh creator of "the bob" today too, wanted to ask him why he is dsitroing that obejct
[2013/10/10 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: but it goes w/o asking...
[2013/10/10 16:01]  TankMaster Finesmith: who owns the beta group now that oskar is gone?
[2013/10/10 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: *the bomb"
[2013/10/10 16:01]  Simon Linden: if it's like other groups, Oskar is still the owner :)
[2013/10/10 16:01]  Rex Cronon: cool maestro
[2013/10/10 16:01]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[2013/10/10 16:01]  Ardy Lay: Is ther no God Mode Take Group Ownership?  ;-)
[2013/10/10 16:02]  Ardy Lay: Or do you have to be a God God to do that?
[2013/10/10 16:02]  Jenna Felton: you can not steal from another god :)
[2013/10/10 16:02]  Rex Cronon: and is not there already maestro:(
[2013/10/10 16:02]  TankMaster Finesmith: ll can override ownership and change owner, but policies get in the way :P
[2013/10/10 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: lmao
[2013/10/10 16:02]  Simon Linden: I've looked into the group-owner-is-gone issue ... it's a tough one.   Linden Lab doesn't want to transfer ownership like that ... it's potentially a really messy situation
[2013/10/10 16:03]  TankMaster Finesmith: agreed it can get sticky
[2013/10/10 16:03]  Lucia Nightfire: elections, campaigns, fund raisers, baby kissing
[2013/10/10 16:03]  Jenna Felton: can we not start another group`?
[2013/10/10 16:03]  Simon Linden: That is the normal way to handle it, yes
[2013/10/10 16:04]  Maestro Linden: In 'Second Life Beta', Alexa is also in the owners group, so it is governable.  A few of us also have officer-type powers, too
[2013/10/10 16:04]  Ardy Lay: And the current group lives on .... and on
[2013/10/10 16:04]  Maestro Linden: oh, I'm an owner there too
[2013/10/10 16:04]  Rex Cronon: :)
[2013/10/10 16:05]  Ardy Lay: I once tried to get people to leave a group that I owned so that it would get deleted.
[2013/10/10 16:05]  Ardy Lay: THey would not leave.
[2013/10/10 16:05]  Ardy Lay: So I punted a few.
[2013/10/10 16:05]  Ardy Lay: THEY SCREAMED.
[2013/10/10 16:05]  Simon Linden: They must have liked your group :)
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Rex Cronon: it would be also good if u could send a notice to everybody in group that they need to be given a different role to hear/talk in group chat maestro:)
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Maestro Linden: okay, I"ll think about sending that, Rex
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Ardy Lay: The purpose of the group expired so I wanted the group GONE so that people searching my name no longer find that group.
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Ardy Lay: I sent several notices.
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Lucia Nightfire: let all them griffers know the way, lol
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Lucia Nightfire: 1/3 of beta group is griffers in case anyone didn't know, lol
[2013/10/10 16:06]  Maestro Linden: change the description of the group to something distasteful
[2013/10/10 16:06]  arton Rotaru: those will be banned son
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Ardy Lay: Guess I'll have to punt the rest and just ignore the screaming.
[2013/10/10 16:07]  arton Rotaru: soon*
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Whirly Fizzle: Add an unknown alt as coowner & punt them with the alt ;)
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Rex Cronon: i guess group meeting is over/
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Rex Cronon: ?
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Maestro Linden: Yes, that's it for this week
[2013/10/10 16:07]  Jenna Felton: "I just forgot to change my title" or so
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Maestro Linden: thanks for coming, everybody!
[2013/10/10 16:08]  arton Rotaru: thanks for the meeting
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Lucia Nightfire: so wheres this ban testing?
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Jenna Felton: Thank you Lindens
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Maestro.
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Rex Cronon: logging stopped
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens!
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Ardy Lay: Whirly, you might have the winning plan there.
[2013/10/10 16:08]  TankMaster Finesmith: have a good weeken maestro and simon!
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Rex Cronon: log is here for a short while: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=-1
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Ardy Lay: Nobody misses particle system debugging information display?
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex.
[2013/10/10 16:08]  Rex Cronon: tc maestro, simon