Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-10-17

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[2013/10/17 15:04]  Maestro Linden: I suppose we can get started
[2013/10/17 15:04]  Maestro Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/10/17 15:04]  Inara Breen: Ooookaay.... that's different for Mikey...
[2013/10/17 15:04]  Maestro Linden: The agenda is just server updates
[2013/10/17 15:05]  Maestro Linden: So.. the main channel finally got a new version
[2013/10/17 15:05]  Maestro Linden: it was the first main channel roll since September 24
[2013/10/17 15:06]  Maestro Linden: and as you might expect, the version it got was the one that had been on the RC channels: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.10.03.281989
[2013/10/17 15:06]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2013/10/17 15:06]  Rex Cronon: sorry
[2013/10/17 15:06]  Maestro Linden: no worries
[2013/10/17 15:07]  Maestro Linden: the only new feature was to add JSON_DELETE as an option to llJsonSetValue(), which deletes the specfied element of a JSON string
[2013/10/17 15:07]  Maestro Linden: otherwise, there were a bunch of bugfixes to scene loading for the experimental 'viewer-interesting' viewer
[2013/10/17 15:08]  Maestro Linden: which shouldn't affect the release viewer
[2013/10/17 15:08]  Maestro Linden: and Simon fixed a bug around group notice sending to large groups
[2013/10/17 15:09]  Maestro Linden: (though he did note that there are other bugs related to group notice delivery which he didn't fix in this round)
[2013/10/17 15:09]  Maestro Linden: Anyway, I haven't heard anything negative about the main channel release - I suppose it's going well for you?
[2013/10/17 15:10]  Ardy Lay: Other than triggering a certain person's balloon juice emitter, it seems to be doing well.
[2013/10/17 15:11]  Maestro Linden: o_O
[2013/10/17 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: tmi
[2013/10/17 15:11]  Maestro Linden: helium leakage?
[2013/10/17 15:11]  Jenna Felton: no complains except for doors that when closed behind you remains closed for your viewer when you look later even way longer. They update only when you right clich them. but that is stil over large time and more tan 2 server updates
[2013/10/17 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: skunk balloon
[2013/10/17 15:12]  Ardy Lay: I woudn't worry too much about it.  She complains about every release, even a couple that didn't happen.
[2013/10/17 15:12]  Jenna Felton: I have not noticed any new problem after release
[2013/10/17 15:12]  Maestro Linden: hmm, okay
[2013/10/17 15:13]  Jenna Felton: Ardy, you meant me?
[2013/10/17 15:13]  Maestro Linden: if that door bug triggers reliably, it would be worth looking into
[2013/10/17 15:14]  Jenna Felton: ok, i will write a big report with the sim and door positions
[2013/10/17 15:14]  Maestro Linden: we had a bug in beta earlier this week
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Maestro Linden: which fortunately got fixed before the deadline for the RC roll
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Maestro Linden: objects which derezzed would not derez for some avatars in some locations
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Ardy Lay: Why would you assume I am talking about you?
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Maestro Linden: where the user wouldn't get the message that the object had derezzed, they would be 'ghosted'
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Jenna Felton: :coughs
[2013/10/17 15:15]  Maestro Linden: until you selected them
[2013/10/17 15:16]  Maestro Linden: anyway, we couldn't figure out why some places had the bug and others didn't
[2013/10/17 15:16]  Maestro Linden: until andrew told us that it only happens if your region has a neighbor to the east
[2013/10/17 15:16]  Maestro Linden: and your viewer is connected to that region
[2013/10/17 15:16]  Ardy Lay: Heh
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Maestro Linden: so depending on your region, object position, camera position, and draw distance setting, the bug may or may nto trigger
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Rex Cronon: what is so special about the east?
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Ardy Lay: I often see avatars stuck on region borders.  THe avatars are not actually there.
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Margithe: it's not the first "east" related bug, is it.
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Maestro Linden: I'm not quite sure why it would matter for derezzing, but the neighbor direction of 'east' is 0
[2013/10/17 15:17]  Maestro Linden: nope
[2013/10/17 15:18]  Rex Cronon: maybe somewhere a boolean check is done and 0 equals false?
[2013/10/17 15:18]  Maestro Linden: havok has some code like that too, where if your object has NaN velocity, it will instead move at <1,0,0> velocity (east) :-)
[2013/10/17 15:18]  Ardy Lay: I think there was "I always face East after teleport" some time ago.
[2013/10/17 15:19]  Maestro Linden: yeah, sounds familiar :)
[2013/10/17 15:19]  Ardy Lay: Are landmarks going to have "facing angle" in them?
[2013/10/17 15:19]  Maestro Linden: anyway, my point is that it may be good to know the exact location of an example door that's affected by the bug
[2013/10/17 15:19]  Maestro Linden: though it's nice to have full repro steps as well (how to make such a 'bugged' door)
[2013/10/17 15:20]  Ardy Lay: Reproducing specific chaos is fraught with peril as chaos is more complex than order.
[2013/10/17 15:21]  Maestro Linden: I haven't heard anything about landmarks changing, Ardy
[2013/10/17 15:22]  Ardy Lay: Awww.....  Well, I like that landing points have facing angle now.
[2013/10/17 15:22]  Maestro Linden: I just looked at an example landmark, and it just has the region and position in the data (no 'look at')
[2013/10/17 15:23]  Maestro Linden: If there's no landing point (or you're immune from the landing point rules), the expected behavior is that you face the position that you came from, or similar
[2013/10/17 15:23]  rcdsQueChatLog: Whirly Fizzle, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2013/10/17 15:23]  Maestro Linden: it would be nice if landmarks had a look at direction which played a role too..
[2013/10/17 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: moar regionsayto
[2013/10/17 15:24]  Maestro Linden: my other news is that we have a new maintenance project in the RC channels: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/13#13.10.11.282320
[2013/10/17 15:24]  Ardy Lay: Oh, that brings up a question:  On land where I should be immune to the landing point setting I am still often forced to the landing point when I teleport in.  Is there some rhyme or reason to this?
[2013/10/17 15:24]  Jenna Felton: hmm, as far i've seen the door direction must not matter, some doors are in 90° to others and stil cause problem. But. i have to test it with LL viewer first. Although i know someone with LL viewer hass also the problem
[2013/10/17 15:25]  Maestro Linden: Ardy, does the landing point match a the telehub and does the sim have 'allow direct teleports' disabled?   That's the only explanation I can think of, outside of a bug (or a misunderstanding over who should be immune)
[2013/10/17 15:25]  Duckie Dickins: Nice...I always see planes and boats pile up on sim edges in the blake sea when sitting at Hollywood Airport
[2013/10/17 15:25]  Duckie Dickins: good to see that a fix is in the maintenance project
[2013/10/17 15:26]  Maestro Linden: yes, "'Ghost' avatars and vehicles sometimes appear to an observer at the sim border" (BUG-3872[c])  is fixed
[2013/10/17 15:26]  Ardy Lay: No telehub.  It's mainland regions that I am using.
[2013/10/17 15:26]  Maestro Linden: that bug was about avatars leaving a region your viewer was connected to and crossing into a region that you can't see into (due to draw distance limits)
[2013/10/17 15:26]  Ardy Lay: Yes, that would be the avatar on the edge conditions I am getting.
[2013/10/17 15:27]  Maestro Linden: the exiting sim would think "oh, I don't need to send a KillObject (derez type) message, since the next region will send further updates about the avatar/vehicle")
[2013/10/17 15:27]  Maestro Linden: and then your viewer wouldn't get information about the avatar/vehicle being gone, so it would show it rendered at the border
[2013/10/17 15:27]  Ardy Lay: Tricky
[2013/10/17 15:28]  Maestro Linden: the fix was to have the sim the vehicle was leaving to look up whether an observer's viewer was connected to the region it crossed into
[2013/10/17 15:28]  Jenna Felton: you can see the draw distance of the avatars viewers?
[2013/10/17 15:28]  Maestro Linden: and send a KillObject message if it knows the connection doesn't exist
[2013/10/17 15:28]  Maestro Linden: Yes, the viewer sends that information t the sim, jenna
[2013/10/17 15:29]  Maestro Linden: it's needed for scene loading (interest list)
[2013/10/17 15:29]  Jenna Felton: ah that is much better solution than check the view range :)
[2013/10/17 15:29]  Rex Cronon: could it be possible to set draw distance to 8m:(
[2013/10/17 15:29]  Maestro Linden: anyway, that bug was pretty visible in places ilke the blake sea, where you have a lot of avatars passing through
[2013/10/17 15:29]  Lucia Nightfire: lol, Rexware friendly dd
[2013/10/17 15:30]  Rex Cronon: :)
[2013/10/17 15:30]  Maestro Linden: another bug that was common in the blake sea was  "Vehicles which exit a region with a passenger are incorrectly autoreturned and become 'ghost shapes' in the physics engine" (BUG-4024[c])
[2013/10/17 15:30]  Maestro Linden: in this case, a vehicle would be autoreturned sometimes when it was driven out of a region
[2013/10/17 15:30]  Rex Cronon: lucy. i can also be useful when somebody wears a crasher sculptie:)
[2013/10/17 15:30]  Maestro Linden: except the return wasn't quite clean, due to the transitory state of the object
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Rex Cronon: it can*
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Maestro Linden: and it would remain in the sim in an "about to derez" state
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Maestro Linden: so things would collide with it, but viewers wouldn't see it
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Maestro Linden: this one is also fixed in RC
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: when someone wears a sculpt lagger I immediately drop rendering
[2013/10/17 15:31]  Jenna Felton: could i ask at this place about an event that will triger, when the script owner or the vehicle passengers are connected to the specified region to enter? This can allow the vehicles to wait at the leaving sim before entering the next sim without making lag to the passengers, i think
[2013/10/17 15:33]  Maestro Linden: Jenna, usually you would be connected to a region well before your avatar crosses in; as long as you can see into a region, you are connected
[2013/10/17 15:33]  Maestro Linden: when your avatar crosses, there is some status change about which region has your 'main agent', though
[2013/10/17 15:34]  Jenna Felton: ok,  thought that problem when you are striped from vehile hapens because the vehicle goes into new region but you not yet.
[2013/10/17 15:34]  Maestro Linden: (the region with the main agent is the one that handles your avatar physics, and proxies your communication with the rest of the grid)
[2013/10/17 15:34]  Maestro Linden: Ah, yeah, I think the transition of 'main agent' could be handled at a different time than the vehicle crossing, which could cause problems
[2013/10/17 15:35]  Maestro Linden: or if your viewer won't connect to the next sim for some reason, that could cause problems
[2013/10/17 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: I have a request in regards to combat vehicles and the recent rezzed object autoreturn time inheriting change.
[2013/10/17 15:36]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2013/10/17 15:36]  Ardy Lay: Stupid residential "broadband routers" still being a problem?
[2013/10/17 15:36]  Lucia Nightfire: could you make said objects not inherit the rezzers autoreturn time, lol
[2013/10/17 15:36]  Ardy Lay: No.  :-)
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Motor Loon: Seems that would kinda defeat the purpose
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Maestro Linden: Hm, are they being returned while there are passengers?
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Maestro Linden: or as soon as the passengers stand up?
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: there are two issues
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Rex Cronon: i think the shells r returned
[2013/10/17 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: one non-temp vehicles rezzing objects on short autoreturn time parcels, and two, temp vehicles not even abel to rez objects after a minute of sitting on them
[2013/10/17 15:38]  Ardy Lay: Maybe have vehicle autoreturn times not count down while their vehicles are sat upon.
[2013/10/17 15:38]  Rex Cronon: i think if u ride a tank and if it fires a shell, it will be returned right away
[2013/10/17 15:38]  Ardy Lay: LL had a reason to make the change you are asking to be undone.
[2013/10/17 15:38]  Maestro Linden: well, the vehicles themselves certainly shouldn't be autoreturned while sat upon, but I think I see what you mean about rezzed projectiles and such..
[2013/10/17 15:38]  Lucia Nightfire: yes, its teh rezzed ordinance
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: I have a temp vehciel that rezzes temp attachments
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: after sitting on it, it can't even rez them, lol
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: *after a minute of sitting on it
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Ardy Lay: WHy is the vehicle temp?
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: for a few reasons
[2013/10/17 15:39]  Maestro Linden: hm, I wonder if temp-on-rez objects could get a fresh autoreturn time when rezzed..
[2013/10/17 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: mainly no auto return when I'm done with it
[2013/10/17 15:40]  Yuzuru Jewell: I heard temp rezed vehicle can't use gun system.
[2013/10/17 15:40]  Ardy Lay: Script it to kill itself after you have dismounted for some time.
[2013/10/17 15:40]  Maestro Linden: (it's technically possible of course, but I wonder if griefers would benefit much)
[2013/10/17 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: Maestro, I think the existing change is correct exempt for sat on objects
[2013/10/17 15:41]  Ardy Lay: Yes, sat-upon objects not counting down to "reaper time" would be okay, I think.
[2013/10/17 15:41]  Jenna Felton: Maybe the sat time should really not count against autoreturn time :) Because that inheritance of the autoreturn time was made to defeat the work-around the autoreturn settings, and object using that work-around are mostly not vehicles
[2013/10/17 15:41]  Maestro Linden: /me nods
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Ardy Lay: Maybe even reset them to 60 seconds when sat-upon.
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Rex Cronon: it would be ok if rezzed objects got the time to live of their parent only if the owner not in same sim. if u r in same sim than life length of child shouldn't match life length of parent
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Ardy Lay: That will keep the temp-on rez houses and shopping malls from showing up again.
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Maestro Linden: would 1 minute before autoreturn be enough for any rezzed temp attachment / bullet?
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Maestro Linden: (if this stuff is all temp-on-rez that should be plenty, I think?)
[2013/10/17 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: it was before the change
[2013/10/17 15:43]  Maestro Linden: ok
[2013/10/17 15:43]  Rex Cronon: maestro. u knew. ther r tanks that mine layers...
[2013/10/17 15:43]  Maestro Linden: drop land mines?
[2013/10/17 15:43]  Rex Cronon: yes
[2013/10/17 15:43]  Yuzuru Jewell: When avatar ride vehicle, avatar can ride over autoreturn time.
[2013/10/17 15:44]  Rex Cronon: there r also automatic turrets
[2013/10/17 15:44]  Maestro Linden: I tend to agree that if you have the requirement of a sitting avatar, it won't be an attractive method for any large-scale griefing
[2013/10/17 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: so what route are you goign to change, the no countdown on sat on obejcts or all temp obejcts get 60 seconds autoreturn time like before?
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: boardroom discussion
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: heh
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Yuzuru Jewell: The over timed vehicle can't use temp bullets.
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Rex Cronon: if all get 60s than replicators r back in business:)
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Maestro Linden: Well, I'll bring it up to Andrew and Simon, and see what they think (I'm not too familiar with the original problems that led up to the change)
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Jenna Felton: i think this needs LL-internal discussion first :)
[2013/10/17 15:45]  Maestro Linden: yeah
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I still have a concern with temp relication
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Maestro Linden: But I do see what you mean about that use case being legitimate but broken
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: which is why I was focusing on the sitting
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Ardy Lay: Is the "temp timer" an object property that is stored in the object's asset when it is taken into inventory?
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: no
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Ardy Lay: It was when I was new to SL and that annoyed me some.
[2013/10/17 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: if you take a object into inv wth 2 sec on autoreturn time and rerez it, it will have 60 sec
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Lucia do you actually have seen cases where this happened, and were victim of a griefer who used that technique, ... or.. are you just generally 'concerned'?
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: unless you're rezzign from obejct
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Ardy Lay: So it has changed since then.
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: which has less, lol
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Maestro Linden: actually, i think it is stored, though it resets if you re-erz over a minute later (after the original expiration time)
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: there are temp replication griefing vectors
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Maestro Linden: re-rez
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Ardy Lay: Ah
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Ardy Lay: That may be it as I was just playing with stuff and might not have waited that long.
[2013/10/17 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: the god ender bullet is has a temp vector version begin distro'd
[2013/10/17 15:48]  MartinRJ Fayray: God ender bullet?
[2013/10/17 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: plus there is spam designed to be rezzed in full sims and sets non-temp when possibel, although that was impacted by the recent change
[2013/10/17 15:48]  Rex Cronon: the thing is, griefers sometimes do like to take a seat on a object while watching the sim break down...
[2013/10/17 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: God Ender bullets are sculpt coalesced obejcts
[2013/10/17 15:49]  MartinRJ Fayray: You should still be aware of the fact that grief and spam are things you can never defeat completely, it's just a human factor
[2013/10/17 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: and since sculpts severaly impact the physics engine after its been weakened to facilitate pathfinding its a choice sim crasher
[2013/10/17 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: grief itself can not be stopped
[2013/10/17 15:49]  Maestro Linden: even if we shut down everything but text chat..
[2013/10/17 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: it can be limited with what is used
[2013/10/17 15:49]  MartinRJ Fayray: You have to talk with the human beings behind the attacks, and ask them to stop instead of taking possibilities for residents who are NOT as familiar with griefing and attack vectors than others
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Yuzuru Jewell: Grifing must be stopped.
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Maestro Linden: you'd still have some guy spamming chat with annoying text :)
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: settext can lag viewers worse that sculpt laggers btw, lol
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Rex Cronon: nope. u can mute thatguy:)
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Whirly Fizzle: Not for much longer in groups! Hurry up Baker lol
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Jenna Felton: /me gigles
[2013/10/17 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: anyway, I just hope something can be looked at for vehicles that rez stuffs, lol
[2013/10/17 15:51]  Ardy Lay: Mæstro, how about we get rid of zero-accountability accounts?
[2013/10/17 15:51]  Motor Loon: That is probably the answer, but it wont happen and you know it.
[2013/10/17 15:51]  Rex Cronon: what is a "zero-accountability account"?
[2013/10/17 15:51]  Maestro Linden: That's not really my call, Ardy :)
[2013/10/17 15:52]  MartinRJ Fayray: That would lead to banning MILLIONS of accounts
[2013/10/17 15:52]  Ardy Lay: Accounts that are created with intent to be disruptive most likely have no real credentials behind them.
[2013/10/17 15:52]  Ardy Lay: Only about 30 million
[2013/10/17 15:53]  Rex Cronon: i think i am one of them ardy. u want to ban me too:(
[2013/10/17 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/17 15:53]  MartinRJ Fayray: Bad bad idea. Look at where Facebook would be when they would have ever banned zero-accountability accounts
[2013/10/17 15:53]  Ardy Lay: Rex, if you forget your password, can you recover your account?
[2013/10/17 15:53]  Maestro Linden: we have a few minutes left - any final topics?
[2013/10/17 15:53]  Jenna Felton: avatars may rez stuf after the payment on file is set,  :)
[2013/10/17 15:54]  Rex Cronon: i can't forget my pass. lol
[2013/10/17 15:54]  MartinRJ Fayray: Successful internet companies get their access by inhaling data, not refusing data
[2013/10/17 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: any new shineys or features coming downt eh road aside from group bans?
[2013/10/17 15:54]  MartinRJ Fayray: *Success
[2013/10/17 15:54]  Ardy Lay: Rex, just answer the question.
[2013/10/17 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: esp anythign for land owners?
[2013/10/17 15:54]  Ardy Lay: I cannot answer your question of me if you do not answer mine of you.
[2013/10/17 15:55]  Rex Cronon: i never had to recover pass with sl. how is it done?
[2013/10/17 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: if you can understand the me, then I can understand the you
[2013/10/17 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/17 15:55]  Maestro Linden: Group bans are the main thing on our (caleb and my) radar right now.  That 'viewer-interesting' viewer should become more available eventually, which will offer faster scene loading
[2013/10/17 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: Rex, you have to sumbit the first names of these three freinds, "? Resident, ? Resident, ? Resident"
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Ardy Lay: Rex, probably by having usable contact information in your account records.
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh thats fin these days. You have to give names of 3 friends on your friends list that match the surnames given. You try to do that with 3 "Resident" accounts heh
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: *fun
[2013/10/17 15:56]  MartinRJ Fayray: Haha
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Maestro Linden: I believe that team has to kill a few bugs first before the project viewer, though
[2013/10/17 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: I saw they pished fixes for the missing objects after TP/login
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Whirly Fizzle: Hum..pushed
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Baker Linden: as do I with group bans :)
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Whirly Fizzle: lol
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Rex Cronon: oh. if that is the only thing ardy than i can recover pass. i have way more than 3. lol
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Baker Linden: squash some bugs, that is
[2013/10/17 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Andrew would have more details about that project at his user group
[2013/10/17 15:58]  Jenna Felton: Is there a reason and reasonable narrow down why the collision_end() event may be triggeered and may not when the avatar is standing on the prim with the script. There seems no difference what viewer was used (LL and Firestorm, and Cool) and what avatar was used, shoes or not, mesh or not. animated or not. It seems on the sim mercy. to trigger collision_end or not.
[2013/10/17 15:58]  Jenna Felton: reasonable way to narrow down
[2013/10/17 15:59]  Ardy Lay: An object at rest is not colliding.
[2013/10/17 15:59]  Jenna Felton: however, we have to test it after new releases. but the test result was very dubious
[2013/10/17 15:59]  Ardy Lay: Thus, an avatar at rest is not colliding.
[2013/10/17 15:59]  Maestro Linden: I think that's pretty low level with how the physics engine detects collisions
[2013/10/17 16:00]  Rex Cronon: jenna i think is due to race conditions
[2013/10/17 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: the physics engine is low level itself
[2013/10/17 16:00]  MartinRJ Fayray: Will there be a havoc update in the near future (for SL) ?
[2013/10/17 16:01]  Jenna Felton: ok, may be, Rex
[2013/10/17 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: only takes a few overlapped physical sculpt prims to majorly lag a region
[2013/10/17 16:01]  Maestro Linden: not in the near future, martin
[2013/10/17 16:01]  Ardy Lay: Counting objects and avatars at rest as colliders would impact simulator performance.
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: we're out of time
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Maestro Linden: sculpts have a pretty awful collision shape - I would definitely recommend setting them to 'shape type none' when possible
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: tell that to the griefers, lol
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Jenna Felton: sculpts are not simple boxes?
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Maestro Linden: oops
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Ardy Lay: Tell the simulators that.  ;-)
[2013/10/17 16:02]  Maestro Linden: No, they are the convex hull of a torus
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Jenna Felton: i thought sculpts have the very simple bounding box :)
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Jenna Felton: ah
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Ardy Lay: Does this show up when "Show Physics Shapes" is enabled?
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Lucia Nightfire: I could be high, but I remember when sculpts were all phantom by default
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Maestro Linden: Jenna, if you set a sculpt to 'static obstacle' then use the pathfinding tools to view static obstacles (after baking), you'll see the exact shape
[2013/10/17 16:03]  Jenna Felton: will do, thank you :)
[2013/10/17 16:04]  Maestro Linden: I think it ought to, Ardy, but the last time I used that feature it was rather flakey
[2013/10/17 16:04]  Maestro Linden: the pathfinding way works well though
[2013/10/17 16:04]  Maestro Linden: let me send you guys a screenshot..
[2013/10/17 16:05]  Maestro Linden: or actually, you should be able to see it yourselves
[2013/10/17 16:05]  Jenna Felton: very interesting
[2013/10/17 16:05]  Maestro Linden: the large apple sculpt off-stage is a static obstacle
[2013/10/17 16:06]  Maestro Linden: open 'pathfinding view/test', then enable 'static obstacles' view when the navmesh has been downloaded
[2013/10/17 16:06]  Jenna Felton: why not making it just a box?
[2013/10/17 16:06]  Ardy Lay: view/test is not available to me.
[2013/10/17 16:06]  Maestro Linden: I don't know, that was before my time
[2013/10/17 16:06]  Jenna Felton: it takes some time before you can view Ardy
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Ardy Lay: It is grey in the menu
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Rex Cronon: andrew should know that jenna
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Maestro Linden: depends on which viewer too
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Lucia Nightfire: I still think this off worlding counter needs re-envisioned, lol
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Maestro Linden: some TPVs don't build with the right havok support
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Whirly Fizzle: I don't see anything ticking static obstacles but Im on self compile without Havok
[2013/10/17 16:07]  Lucia Nightfire: like only affects pf chars and not projectiles
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Ardy Lay: Ah, I didn't build this viewer with Havok.  oops
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Jenna Felton: thank you Maestro
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Jenna Felton: And Rex :)
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Maestro Linden: it's basically symmetric
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Rex Cronon: :)
[2013/10/17 16:08]  Maestro Linden: it's a rather interesting tool..
[2013/10/17 16:09]  Maestro Linden: you can also see when mesh objects use a weird physics shape
[2013/10/17 16:09]  Maestro Linden: such as these speaker chairs or the pieces of the DJ booth
[2013/10/17 16:09]  Aquila Kytori: low lod pHYSICS SHAPE
[2013/10/17 16:10]  Maestro Linden: yeah, thats' what it looks like
[2013/10/17 16:10]  Whirly Fizzle: Nifty. I didn't know that trick. Thanks Maestro.
[2013/10/17 16:10]  Maestro Linden: sure thing
[2013/10/17 16:10]  Maestro Linden: anyway, we're past time- thanks for coming, everybody!
[2013/10/17 16:10]  MartinRJ Fayray: Goodbye
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Maestro Linden: I'll bring up that combat vehicle thing with some other lindens
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Rex Cronon: tc maestro
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Lucia Nightfire: yay
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Lucia Nightfire: thanks
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Whirly Fizzle: lol Martin, you have the baffy eye bug :P
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Rex Cronon: meeting over. right?
[2013/10/17 16:11]  Maestro Linden: yes