Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-02-20

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[2014/02/20 15:03]  Maestro Linden: hi guys
[2014/02/20 15:03]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2014/02/20 15:03]  TankMaster Finesmith: howdy, maestro
[2014/02/20 15:03]  Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro
[2014/02/20 15:03]  Inara Breen: Hi, Maestro!
[2014/02/20 15:03]  arton Rotaru: servus, grüzi und hallo
[2014/02/20 15:04]  Maestro Linden: we may as well get started
[2014/02/20 15:04]  Caleb Linden: very southern german / swiss region
[2014/02/20 15:04]  arton Rotaru: right
[2014/02/20 15:04]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/02/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: I don't have much in the way of update news, but I do have a separate kind of topic
[2014/02/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: first.. the updates
[2014/02/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: the main channel wasn't rolled, since there hadn't been anything new in RC last week to update to
[2014/02/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: however, there was an update to the RCs this week
[2014/02/20 15:06]  Maestro Linden: the main visible fix was for that 'logout due to premature region restart' bug that Whirly and some others were running into
[2014/02/20 15:06]  Maestro Linden: have any of you had a chance to try that out on Agni RC?   it's on all three RC channels
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Maestro Linden: Basically, it's...
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Maestro Linden: (1) be the last avatar in a region which is counting down to restart
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Whirly Fizzle: I can't restart any RC regions. If Testylvania sandbox can be pout on an RC I can try it :D
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Whirly Fizzle: *put
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Maestro Linden: (2) TP out of the region
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Maestro Linden: (3) see if you get logged out
[2014/02/20 15:07]  Jonathan Yap: What happens if you walk out--no trouble there?
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: that's a good question, Jonathan
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: I've never reproduced it myself
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Whirly Fizzle: Dont know. I only have estart rights on 3 regions & they are all stanalone regions with no neighbours
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Whirly Fizzle: *restart
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: I could see the timing working out differently when you walk/fly to the next region,
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: since in that case you were already connected to the neighboring region as a child agent, well before the crossing
[2014/02/20 15:08]  Jonathan Yap: Whirly, you can ask Oz to make you EM of 2 of his regions here -- they are adjacent -- blizzard and flurry
[2014/02/20 15:11]  arton Rotaru: test
[2014/02/20 15:11]  Jonathan Yap: here
[2014/02/20 15:11]  Maestro Linden: the other bug fix was for some obscure email issue that kelly found
[2014/02/20 15:11]  Maestro Linden: where emails to LSL scripts would be missing their message bodies under very obscure circumstances
[2014/02/20 15:12]  Maestro Linden: nobody's filed a bug report about that happening, so maybe nobody ever saw it regularly
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Lucia Nightfire: I think I've seen it, plus theres one where all scrtips in aprim with an email script halting too
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: and otherwise.. good old crash fixes
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: well, in this case
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: you'd see the email
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: and see the subject
[2014/02/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: but not the body
[2014/02/20 15:14]  Maestro Linden: or rather, I guess the body would be an empty string
[2014/02/20 15:14]  Rex Cronon: how would u know the body was missing?
[2014/02/20 15:15]  Lucia Nightfire: trouble shoting, heh
[2014/02/20 15:15]  Lucia Nightfire: *shooting
[2014/02/20 15:15]  Maestro Linden: I guess you'd only know if you had sent the email yourself..
[2014/02/20 15:15]  Maestro Linden: according to kelly, it would only happen during a very narrow time window as the sim was starting up
[2014/02/20 15:16]  Maestro Linden: so I could imagine most people who saw it once just shrugging after the issue didn't occur a second time
[2014/02/20 15:16]  arton Rotaru: anyway, nice catch
[2014/02/20 15:16]  Maestro Linden: yep, no complaints here :)
[2014/02/20 15:16]  Jenna Felton: that are emails sent by script to the agent, or an email sent by script or someone and read by script?
[2014/02/20 15:16]  Rex Cronon: if u don't send it yourself u have no idea that there should have been a body
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Maestro Linden: Jeanna, only for emails read by a script
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Maestro Linden: Jenna
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Lucia Nightfire: there are in-world apps taht email remotely before sending an established http url
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Jenna Felton: ah, i guess this feature is rarelly used nowadays
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Lucia Nightfire: such as region online monitors
[2014/02/20 15:17]  Maestro Linden: I don't think there was a dependency on whether the email was sent by another script or some outside source
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Jenna Felton: i see, ok
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Lucia Nightfire: those would probably be affected more easily
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Maestro Linden: in beta news, group ban is inching closer to Aditi
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Maestro Linden: Caleb was testing it recently
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Maestro Linden: so far so good, Caleb?
[2014/02/20 15:18]  TankMaster Finesmith: \o/
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Whirly Fizzle: Yay!
[2014/02/20 15:18]  Caleb Linden: so far so good
[2014/02/20 15:19]  Jenna Felton: just the email event handler has not provided the body. I beleive in all my scripts i ever used email u only used the subject, and no body field
[2014/02/20 15:19]  Jenna Felton: nor "u", but me
[2014/02/20 15:19]  Lucia Nightfire: I use all fields with my apps that use email
[2014/02/20 15:20]  Whirly Fizzle: How long till we can start playing with the group bans? :D
[2014/02/20 15:20]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[2014/02/20 15:20]  Maestro Linden: I think as soon as we're confident that the backend host and simulators are playing nicely
[2014/02/20 15:20]  Maestro Linden: if there's a bug which is definitely viewer-only, that's not a blocker for adiit at all
[2014/02/20 15:20]  Margithe: Hm, where's Baker? isn't group bans his baby?
[2014/02/20 15:20]  TankMaster Finesmith: im sure baker is glad to be almost done with it :P
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Maestro Linden: he's hiding out from this user group until group ban is on Aditi :)
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Whirly Fizzle: Awwwww lol
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Maestro Linden: keeping a low profile
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Caleb Linden: lol
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Margithe: awww...
[2014/02/20 15:21]  Whirly Fizzle: Its okay, he can fix group chat next :P
[2014/02/20 15:22]  Margithe: btw, is this group shrinking, or am i imagining?
[2014/02/20 15:22]  Caleb Linden: today is light, yeah
[2014/02/20 15:22]  Maestro Linden: I think that's been the trend since the release updates have been less enticing
[2014/02/20 15:22]  arton Rotaru: yup
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: more shiney's more attendance
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Maestro Linden: yep
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Less bugs,. less attendance ;)
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Maestro Linden: heh that too
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Maestro Linden: Actually, I have a PSA related to a bug
[2014/02/20 15:23]  Jonathan Yap: How is AISV3 testing coming?
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Maestro Linden: it's coming along well, I believe it will be in RC next week
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Whirly Fizzle: PSA?
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Rex Cronon: u guys should take feature s requrests:)
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Maestro Linden: 'public service announcement'
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Lucia Nightfire: public service announement
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Lucia Nightfire: bah
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Whirly Fizzle: ahhh derrp
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Maestro Linden: Jonathan: I don't have the details about AISV3 on me, since I don't interact with that team regularly
[2014/02/20 15:24]  Maestro Linden: but maybe I can summon somebody next week
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: whispers: especially if it's in RC
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Jonathan Yap: k, thanks
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: okay, so my PSA is,
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: recently we discovered an issue related to logins
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: certain users who belong to groups or have display names set to certain strings will always fail to login
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Lucia Nightfire: thats old, lol
[2014/02/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: the error message is of the 'cannot connect to a region' sort
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Lucia Nightfire: I thoguht it was fixed too
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Maestro Linden: this is a new one
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh, new finding for the https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5130 girl?
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Lucia Nightfire: oh boy
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Jonathan Yap: more bad characters?
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Maestro Linden: Yes we discovered the cause today
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: I was really curious what that was!
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Maestro Linden: if you belong to a group with a name that looks like a 64 bit integer, you will have this issue
[2014/02/20 15:26]  Maestro Linden: ditto if your display name follows that format
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Jonathan Yap: you mean like 3432412323 etc?
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Maestro Linden: yes, >2billion
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Margithe: /me makes a group and invites are her nemesises into it.
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: So, that groups tag doesn't even need to be active?
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Inara Breen: BUG-5130?
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Maestro Linden: correct
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: Ouch
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Maestro Linden: BUG-5130 is the bug somebody filed about the login problem, Inara
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Rex Cronon: does that happen with group titles too?
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Inara Breen: (is grateful JIRA might soon be opened-up a little more)
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Maestro Linden: nope, just group names, I think
[2014/02/20 15:27]  Maestro Linden: what have you heard about that, Inara?
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Maestro Linden: /me not sure what's public
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Inara Breen: Ebbe has indicated there's an internal proposal to open things out
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: Ebbe himself talked about opening the JIRA back up on the forums :)
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Maestro Linden: oh good!
[2014/02/20 15:28]  TankMaster Finesmith: yeah
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: AND possibly bringing back last names!
[2014/02/20 15:28]  TankMaster Finesmith: ^
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Lucia Nightfire: say wha
[2014/02/20 15:28]  TankMaster Finesmith: for only new accounts
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: I like this guy :D
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Rex Cronon: u mean reopen them:)
[2014/02/20 15:28]  Inara Breen: Is there is description for BUG-5130 for us poor mortals? :)
[2014/02/20 15:29]  TankMaster Finesmith: current 'resident' residents cant change the last name
[2014/02/20 15:29]  Lucia Nightfire: those creative name griefers will like that
[2014/02/20 15:29]  Maestro Linden: Inara, it's basically what I've described above
[2014/02/20 15:29]  Maestro Linden: if your display name is a big integer, or you belong to a group with a name that's a big integer, then you cannot login to SL
[2014/02/20 15:29]  Rex Cronon: 1337 names r so nice;)
[2014/02/20 15:29]  Maestro Linden: this is fortunately very rare
[2014/02/20 15:30]  Inara Breen: Sorry, I'm skipping bits, Maestro due to usual RL things.
[2014/02/20 15:30]  Maestro Linden: but if you have a friend who's affected, please advise them to contact support
[2014/02/20 15:30]  Margithe: how big of an integer? 64 bit?
[2014/02/20 15:30]  Maestro Linden: who can either change their display name (for one guy, I just added a space to get around it), or mess with the 'problem' group
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Maestro Linden: any integer which is bigger than 32bit, Margithe
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: 0x100000000
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Maestro Linden: I'm not sure if hex representation names would be affected..
[2014/02/20 15:31]  TankMaster Finesmith: /me creats an account called 99999999999999.99999999999999999
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: you might want to make sure, heh
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Margithe: Thats kinda sad for the new accounts that get numbers in them... but that many numbers sounds more like bots
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Jenna Felton: The integer data type is a signed 32 bit value between −2,147,483,648 and +2,147,483,647
[2014/02/20 15:31]  Maestro Linden: but 0x7FFFFFFF in base10 would be okay, but 0x8000000 may have issues
[2014/02/20 15:32]  Jenna Felton: You need something bigger than 2,147,483,647
[2014/02/20 15:32]  Lucia Nightfire: I know someone with those names
[2014/02/20 15:32]  Maestro Linden: actually I think a float would be okay, Tankmaster :)
[2014/02/20 15:32]  Margithe: hmmm.. Pi as name?
[2014/02/20 15:33]  arton Rotaru: So the PSA is that those who are affected have to contact support? Won't there be some sort of fix to the login system?
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Maestro Linden: yes there will be a fix, now that we've identified the problem
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Maestro Linden: but I don't have an ETA yet
[2014/02/20 15:33]  arton Rotaru: kk
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Jonathan Yap: The PSA is just until the fix is out
[2014/02/20 15:33]  TankMaster Finesmith: no, ment is as FN.LM format :P
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Maestro Linden: 'contact support for a workaround'
[2014/02/20 15:33]  arton Rotaru: ok
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Lucia Nightfire: "add toa temp list"
[2014/02/20 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: Will this also fix the cannot login to simulator caused by baffy characters in the active group tag?
[2014/02/20 15:34]  Jonathan Yap: Is that still a problem?
[2014/02/20 15:34]  Lucia Nightfire: I thought that was fixed
[2014/02/20 15:34]  Whirly Fizzle: Nopes not fixed. I have an alt broken with that on purpose. (I can fix it when I want)
[2014/02/20 15:34]  Maestro Linden: that bug is distinct, but it would be nice if we could fix it in the same change
[2014/02/20 15:34]  Maestro Linden: (@Whirly)
[2014/02/20 15:35]  Whirly Fizzle: Those baffy characters also prevent you from ever leaving the affected group (inless you use a text based viewer to leave)
[2014/02/20 15:35]  Maestro Linden: yeah, that's a nasty problem :(
[2014/02/20 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: Ayeko group has that bug atm
[2014/02/20 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: err Akeyo, sorry
[2014/02/20 15:37]  Maestro Linden: /me nods.. I think I have an example name tag recorded in that Jira
[2014/02/20 15:37]  Rex Cronon: so if a group has name like "group298382398498" u can't login if u set that group as active?
[2014/02/20 15:37]  Maestro Linden: I have another topic you guys may be interested in..
[2014/02/20 15:37]  Maestro Linden: that should be fine, Rex
[2014/02/20 15:38]  Maestro Linden: only groups with names that only contain numerals (no "." or other characters) with values outside the int32 range should be affected
[2014/02/20 15:38]  TankMaster Finesmith: take off 'group'
[2014/02/20 15:38]  Maestro Linden: I guess '-5000000000' may be affected
[2014/02/20 15:38]  Maestro Linden: but who names their groups that :)
[2014/02/20 15:39]  arton Rotaru: those deserve to stay out^^
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Whirly Fizzle: Griffers will now :P
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: griefers exploiting teh current bug
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Whirly Fizzle: & invite poor noobs.....
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Any_Other_Items is the other topic I had
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: which is why I say you might want to check that hex format isn't affected as well, heh
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Rex Cronon: come and join our "192838293882" group to receive 10$L ;)
[2014/02/20 15:39]  Margithe: "free skins and other crap we've stolen! Join our group naoooo"
[2014/02/20 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: in regards to SCR-395 I've already commented in that jira of my concerns
[2014/02/20 15:40]  Maestro Linden: don't make me change some display names :)
[2014/02/20 15:40]  Maestro Linden: yes, to paraphrase that wiki link:
[2014/02/20 15:40]  Margithe: Ah, that competing jira... Darien had some longstanding beef with it i think
[2014/02/20 15:41]  Maestro Linden: right now, objects attaching with llAttachToAvatarTemp() have their active group set to 'none' upon attach
[2014/02/20 15:41]  Maestro Linden: which people agree is a bug
[2014/02/20 15:41]  Maestro Linden: but there are 2 options:
[2014/02/20 15:41]  Maestro Linden: 1) force the active group of the object to the active group of the avatar it just attached to (who may not have been the owner before detach)
[2014/02/20 15:41]  Maestro Linden: 2) let the object keep whatever group it had before attaching
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: 1)
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: and if 2), they must be a member of that group
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Jenna Felton: I think because the ownership of the tempattached object changes to the owner the item attached to, i think the group should also change to their active group
[2014/02/20 15:42]  arton Rotaru: yeah 1) should be good enough
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: otherwise it will have problems
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: despite the conveniences
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Jenna Felton: probably allow the object to know who was the last owner and what was the last group would be reasonable here
[2014/02/20 15:42]  TankMaster Finesmith: 3) randomly select a group from the person attaching? :P
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Margithe: i'd say 2, if the temporary attachemnt needs to be set to group to function
[2014/02/20 15:42]  Maestro Linden: hm, what would be the griefing angle, Lucia?
[2014/02/20 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: overriding group rez ability
[2014/02/20 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: through temp attach, w/o being an actual memvber
[2014/02/20 15:43]  Maestro Linden: wouldn't the griefer need to be in the group to set up the bad object?
[2014/02/20 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, but
[2014/02/20 15:43]  Maestro Linden: in which case you're in trouble anyway
[2014/02/20 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: trust me, I've seen several cases of "everyone" role group members trying to indirectly have their buddies be able to use group objects
[2014/02/20 15:44]  arton Rotaru: I find it rather confusing, having an object that is set to another group than my active group
[2014/02/20 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: and said buddies do not fit the image of anyoen the group owner had in mind
[2014/02/20 15:44]  arton Rotaru: while any other attachment are my active group
[2014/02/20 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: ie, griefer buddies
[2014/02/20 15:44]  Margithe: I know there's reasons for it in the kink side
[2014/02/20 15:45]  Maestro Linden: Here's the case for (2):   I could set up my sim so that build is only allowed for group.  Then, I could set up guns which are set to the parcels' active group, and attach to visitors with llAttachToAvatarTemp()
[2014/02/20 15:45]  Maestro Linden: then, visitors would be able to fire the guns, and not be able to rez any other items
[2014/02/20 15:45]  Margithe: Like, lets say you got a temporary attachment, that is supposed to be interactive only by members of a group. regardlessly of where you are, and what you are doing
[2014/02/20 15:46]  TankMaster Finesmith: a lot of people like the option we have of always rez under land group if we have permissions to do so
[2014/02/20 15:46]  Maestro Linden: right now, if you want to set that up, you have to allow anybody to build, which seems like a wider door for griefers to use
[2014/02/20 15:46]  TankMaster Finesmith: i see option 2 as being similer
[2014/02/20 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: I think it would have to be another permission, one that the group owner would have to allow
[2014/02/20 15:46]  Maestro Linden: but we don't want to introduce security issues..
[2014/02/20 15:47]  Margithe: Maybe let us mull this ower until next meeting?
[2014/02/20 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: people in the everyone role should not be able to create a group set object taht will allow non-members to have their objects set to group by attach
[2014/02/20 15:47]  Jenna Felton: What if (3) a temporally atached object changes the group to the active group of the new wearer, but it stil retains also the abilities of the prevously used group?
[2014/02/20 15:47]  Maestro Linden: sure, Margithe
[2014/02/20 15:48]  Maestro Linden: Hm Jenna, I'd worry about confusion when objects which seemingly don't have build permission are building
[2014/02/20 15:48]  Jenna Felton: because that object belongs actually to two owners, the one who rezed and the new one who wears
[2014/02/20 15:48]  Maestro Linden: though yeah, the complicated setup is a little confusing in any case
[2014/02/20 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: I have issue enough with the "rez objects under land group when possible" option, heh
[2014/02/20 15:48]  Margithe: But you could have group set teleports, through attachments
[2014/02/20 15:49]  Jonathan Yap: Could the object have a new property, which it could set, to determine which behavior to use?
[2014/02/20 15:49]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol lucia
[2014/02/20 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: that option alone is the cause for lingering group set casually rezzed stuff
[2014/02/20 15:49]  Maestro Linden: In terms of new properties, maybe experience tools are the best way?
[2014/02/20 15:50]  arton Rotaru: lets say I give away an object to someone who has rez rights on group land
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Maestro Linden: objects or scripts are whitelisted by setting them to the same experience as the region
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Margithe: ..when those arrive, yeah
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Jenna Felton: i cant answer that, i have no info about them
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Jenna Felton: :)
[2014/02/20 15:50]  arton Rotaru: and the temp attachment stays at my group
[2014/02/20 15:50]  arton Rotaru: it won't help these people at all,, right?
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: I think if its to be allowed it has to either check taht they are a current member or require owner permissions to setup first
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: some kind of security
[2014/02/20 15:50]  Jenna Felton: i suggest a new object property that controls how the group change exactelly goes.
[2014/02/20 15:51]  Maestro Linden: arton: give as in it goes into their avatar inventory?
[2014/02/20 15:51]  Jenna Felton: either option 1 or option 2 or whatever else
[2014/02/20 15:51]  Margithe: if i recall it right, i know there was some type of controversy about attachemnts getting the set group of the wearer, and that it didn't used to be that way and... it was long ago. Opencollar discussion i think.
[2014/02/20 15:51]  arton Rotaru: if you want to rez on group land, you need to have the attachment set to that group
[2014/02/20 15:52]  Maestro Linden: That's correct, arton
[2014/02/20 15:52]  Margithe: it wasn't about rezzing, it was about members of a group being able to interact with the object, no matter what group the wearer had active
[2014/02/20 15:52]  arton Rotaru: so you are wearing your group, and if the temp thingy stays at another group it would fail
[2014/02/20 15:53]  arton Rotaru: maybe I'm missing something though
[2014/02/20 15:53]  Maestro Linden: I ran a test, and my popgun can only rez on a group-build-only parcel when it's set to the same group as the parcel.  My avatar's active group has no influence.
[2014/02/20 15:53]  Maestro Linden: margithe: ah, I see
[2014/02/20 15:53]  Rex Cronon: i think all these rules make things too complex and very likely to fail:(
[2014/02/20 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: Rex, don't ever get into looking at all teh scenarios for permissions changing, heh
[2014/02/20 15:54]  Maestro Linden: We would probably want to avoid stuff that seems likely to impact a lot of existing content
[2014/02/20 15:54]  Margithe: Yeah. but it does sound a little like same thing could be acheived by these mythical expirience tools, that we know very little about?
[2014/02/20 15:54]  arton Rotaru: set to active group would be the easiest, but I see the possibilities for number 2 as well
[2014/02/20 15:55]  Maestro Linden: Also note that I'm  talking about 'build' on purpose.  "run scripts' has a set of exceptions which make it really confusing
[2014/02/20 15:56]  Jenna Felton: Another try, what about the function llAttachToAvatarTempOnGroup( integer attach_point, key active:group);
[2014/02/20 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: that would need some explaining
[2014/02/20 15:56]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol, now your just making things more compilcatd
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Margithe: yes, this does seem like it could be addressed by experience tools, though I don't think they currently support this sort of thing.  Maybe the 'build' and 'run scripts' parcel options could have a separate 'allow experience content' option
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Maestro Linden: heh, I don't think we could allow for that, Jenna
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Lucia Nightfire: while you at it you can add those parcel checks I mentioned in that one jira, heh
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Jenna Felton: was just a try :)
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Maestro Linden: we'd want some limitation about which groups an object could belong to
[2014/02/20 15:57]  arton Rotaru: experience tools are coming a long way lol
[2014/02/20 15:57]  Maestro Linden: so you don't just set your objects to the maintenance group and have them live on mainland waterways :)
[2014/02/20 15:58]  Margithe: why not XD
[2014/02/20 15:58]  Jenna Felton: the group you use in that function will be one the object owner (before attaching) belongs to
[2014/02/20 15:59]  Maestro Linden: I guess you could have a boolean about whether to change to the new user's group or not..
[2014/02/20 15:59]  Margithe: Anyhow... Frankly it feels like we've heard about expirience tools forever- and maybe picking the option with more potential functions is better- never know when those expirience tools will be released, if ever
[2014/02/20 15:59]  Maestro Linden: or maybe an integer with 3 options for which group to set: original object group, attached avatar's group, or none
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Margithe: Does none serve any function?
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Maestro Linden: we need to think about whether "original object group" is safe though..
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Maestro Linden: nope!
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Margithe: so boolean it is ;9
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: it isn't safe if they're nto amember already
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Jenna Felton: Experience tools give the objects more permissions than the object actually has. That means experience tools should use even more restricted functions to avoid griefing... that is if i understtand the rumours about ET right
[2014/02/20 16:00]  Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody
[2014/02/20 16:01]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/02/20 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: by the time exp tools are publicly explained, it will be too late to change any behaviour, heh
[2014/02/20 16:01]  TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[2014/02/20 16:01]  Jenna Felton: And a flag controlling the group change wil be ok
[2014/02/20 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: which is the status quo on a lot of shieny releases sadly
[2014/02/20 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: *shiney
[2014/02/20 16:02]  TankMaster Finesmith: hopefully with this new CEO, there will be more transparncy with what LL is developing
[2014/02/20 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: not enough prior release public feedback
[2014/02/20 16:02]  TankMaster Finesmith: seems hopeful on that
[2014/02/20 16:02]  Margithe: eh, i wouldn't hold my breath.
[2014/02/20 16:02]  arton Rotaru: we'll see
[2014/02/20 16:02]  Maestro Linden: +1 arton :)
[2014/02/20 16:03]  arton Rotaru: we stick around anyway^^
[2014/02/20 16:03]  Jenna Felton: llAttachToAvatarTempOnGroup( integer attach_point, integer keep_group); when false the new group set, when true the old group, but never "none"
[2014/02/20 16:03]  TankMaster Finesmith: hav you had a chance to interact with the new CEO, maestro?
[2014/02/20 16:03]  Maestro Linden: yes I have
[2014/02/20 16:03]  TankMaster Finesmith: good ㋡
[2014/02/20 16:04]  Maestro Linden: It's a good opportunity to get some ideas out
[2014/02/20 16:04]  arton Rotaru: cool
[2014/02/20 16:04]  Margithe: before he gets tired and locks himself up in his office ;)
[2014/02/20 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2014/02/20 16:04]  Maestro Linden: on that note, we're past time!
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Margithe: uh oh.
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Lucia Nightfire: time for food
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Maestro Linden: thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/02/20 16:05]  arton Rotaru: yep, thanks for the meeting
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Margithe: Thanks for having us :)
[2014/02/20 16:05]  TankMaster Finesmith: hav a good weekend!
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Inara Breen: Thanks for the meeting?
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Caleb Linden: ciao
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
[2014/02/20 16:05]  Jenna Felton: thank you for the meeting, and have a good weekend, Lindens and Residents
[2014/02/20 16:06]  Jonathan Yap: take care everyone