Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-05-08

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[2014/05/08 15:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/05/08 15:01]  Inara Breen: It's a Maestro!
[2014/05/08 15:01]  Larre Leborski: Hi Maestro :-)
[2014/05/08 15:01]  Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro
[2014/05/08 15:01]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/05/08 15:02]  Larre Leborski: indeed :-)
[2014/05/08 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The agenda is actually pretty empty today
[2014/05/08 15:03]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/05/08 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the only big update to Agni this week was the group chat update
[2014/05/08 15:04]  Larre Leborski: Hi caleb :-)
[2014/05/08 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which went out on Monday morning
[2014/05/08 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so now all groups are using the newer backend for group chat
[2014/05/08 15:05]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:05]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Koool
[2014/05/08 15:05]  Whirly Fizzle: Cool :) It does seem better but hard to say if thats placebo heh
[2014/05/08 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, Simon found that the effects were rather subtle,
[2014/05/08 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but this version has better analytics, so he has some ideas about what can be approached next to improve group performance
[2014/05/08 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there has been some movement in group ban this week
[2014/05/08 15:07]  Larre Leborski: Hi Baker.
[2014/05/08 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): mostly on the viewer,
[2014/05/08 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though baker did just fix this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5929
[2014/05/08 15:07]  Whirly Fizzle: Yay Baker
[2014/05/08 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (which was server side - it used to return a 400 'Bad Access' if your list of avatars to ban included some which you weren't allowed to ban)
[2014/05/08 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): now it just bans all the avatars you're allowed to ban
[2014/05/08 15:09]  Baker Linden: Hello Larre, everyone :)
[2014/05/08 15:09]  Whirly Fizzle: New viewer ready to break then? :D
[2014/05/08 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes.. let's see..
[2014/05/08 15:10]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:10]  Baker Linden: in a couple hours, Whirly
[2014/05/08 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I guess we can't link to the build results page until the build finished
[2014/05/08 15:11]  Larre Leborski: breaking the new viewer :-)
[2014/05/08 15:12]  Whirly Fizzle: Well, you can, this always brings up latest build automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_viewer-voorhees-groupban/latest.html
[2014/05/08 15:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, that works.  The latest Linux build is also ready: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_voorhees_groupban/rev/289887/arch/Linux/index.html
[2014/05/08 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: OOOh https://bitbucket.org/baker_linden/voorhees_groupban is publiuc now. I hadnt noticed that
[2014/05/08 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: *public
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Baker Linden: I was given the go-ahead
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: Cools
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Baker Linden: you'll find that the newest viewer, when it finishes, will be an official project viewer
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Baker Linden: well, it's configured to be
[2014/05/08 15:14]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): excellent
[2014/05/08 15:15]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: How long till the server end is on an RC?
[2014/05/08 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, first we need to get the backend host code deployed to production
[2014/05/08 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's almost ready, but it just changed due to the BUG-5929 fix
[2014/05/08 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think we'll want that to be out at least a week (in case there were regressions) before putting any sims on a group ban RC
[2014/05/08 15:18]  Whirly Fizzle: Is that fix on this region now?
[2014/05/08 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes the fix is on a backend host, so it's aditi-wide
[2014/05/08 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh
[2014/05/08 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): no it's not.
[2014/05/08 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me needs to bug somebody for that deploy again
[2014/05/08 15:20]  Whirly Fizzle: When its deployed, will this region show a different number to DRTSIM-234 14.05.05.289712 ?
[2014/05/08 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Nope, the fix was in the backend host.. so there won't be a version change in the sim to indicate the status of that
[2014/05/08 15:21]  Whirly Fizzle: ahh okay.
[2014/05/08 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'll.. let you know when it's ready
[2014/05/08 15:21]  Whirly Fizzle: Okay ta
[2014/05/08 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, we're hoping that's the last non-viewer groupban bug, so we can get the RC going
[2014/05/08 15:23]  Rex Cronon: greetings:)
[2014/05/08 15:23]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Howdy
[2014/05/08 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Heya Rex
[2014/05/08 15:23]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex.
[2014/05/08 15:23]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro, whrily, yuzuru
[2014/05/08 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Caleb and I have been pretty busy with rather mundane updates to backend hosts, which are important but don't offer any new features.
[2014/05/08 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which is why we don't have much to talk about in the way of sim updates this week
[2014/05/08 15:25]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:26]  Rex Cronon: how is the group chat fixing?
[2014/05/08 15:26]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Ah, I mentioned earlier that Simon's update went out to the rest of group chat servers on Monday
[2014/05/08 15:26]  Larre Leborski: Hmm.. thought i was crashing. Hotel Internet is a very strange beast ;-)
[2014/05/08 15:28]  Rex Cronon: maybe your dancing is affection your internets:)
[2014/05/08 15:28]  Rex Cronon: affecting*
[2014/05/08 15:28]  Caleb Linden: i like that star effect
[2014/05/08 15:28]  Larre Leborski: Possible :-)
[2014/05/08 15:29]  Larre Leborski: Indeed yea. Had these stars for a very long time :-0
[2014/05/08 15:29]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:31]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Have any of you run into https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5962 recently?
[2014/05/08 15:31]  Larre Leborski: Hmmm.. not yet.
[2014/05/08 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: I didn't try to repro that one yet
[2014/05/08 15:31]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if it happens anywhere, I'd guess it would be common in combat sims
[2014/05/08 15:32]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I gave it a try by guessing at what they're doing, but the bug isn't happening for me.
[2014/05/08 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): On the other hand, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5961 is pretty reliable
[2014/05/08 15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: Ugh yeah
[2014/05/08 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it looks like the viewer won't let you leave a group until you've fetched the members list.
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: At least text viewers allow you to leave
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and if you get impatient and hit 'Leave' a 2nd time, it starts over again with the list fetch
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and this group just happens to be pretty huge
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm going to give it a second try with the STORM-2011 viewer
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: Thats because no one can leave :D
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:33]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me renames it to "Hotel California"
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): -> expected behavior :-P
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Larre Leborski: Lolz!!
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Caleb Linden: such a lovely place
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Rex Cronon: too bad we don't have a 10 million users group....
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Whirly Fizzle: Those storm changes don't fix it. Well, weve had Ansas changes in FS for a while now & bug still repros on FS
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay
[2014/05/08 15:34]  Whirly Fizzle: May get lucky on the official though heh
[2014/05/08 15:39]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh, maestro, do you know if the Restore to last position ability is going to be blocked serverside?
[2014/05/08 15:39]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, yes.. we talked about that this morning
[2014/05/08 15:39]  Larre Leborski: Hmmm...
[2014/05/08 15:39]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): here's the context: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5955
[2014/05/08 15:39]  Whirly Fizzle: I saw your comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5955
[2014/05/08 15:40]  Larre Leborski: Getting rid of "restore to last position"?
[2014/05/08 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes.. so for some history.. 'restore to last position' used to be in the Linden viewer
[2014/05/08 15:40]  Whirly Fizzle: At the least Id like to see the viewers that use it block it from being used on any no copy objects
[2014/05/08 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but then it was removed in 2009, I believe in 1.23, because there were content loss problems
[2014/05/08 15:41]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that issue was https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13105 (well, that's the one I found - there may have been other problems)
[2014/05/08 15:41]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): one issue is that 'restore to last position' doesn't have a concept of which region the objects were previously in
[2014/05/08 15:42]  Whirly Fizzle: That game table case is really weird though. It seems it just can't store its last rezzed position.
[2014/05/08 15:42]  Larre Leborski: Indeed. I do remember that "restore to last position" always failed if one did not have build rights on the 0,0,0 position on a sim.
[2014/05/08 15:42]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so if you took a box from <207,201,23> in Morris, then accidentally did 'restore to last position' in some other region (say, a mountainous one0, those coordinates may be deep underground
[2014/05/08 15:42]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, that's goofy too
[2014/05/08 15:42]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, the 'fix' to that 2009 bug was to remove the option from the viewer UI
[2014/05/08 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but some (most?) TPVs still include it
[2014/05/08 15:43]  Larre Leborski: /me knows the Singularity viewer has it...
[2014/05/08 15:44]  Whirly Fizzle: Well, if restrore fails because you don't have rez rights at 0,0,0, if the object was no copy it will poof from inventory, but it will come back after a relog (same as if normal rez fails for a no copy object). But that game table... it seems gone for good.
[2014/05/08 15:44]  Rex Cronon: u could move object uderground with that?
[2014/05/08 15:44]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, or alternatively it could be in the sky somewhere
[2014/05/08 15:44]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or inside some other prim
[2014/05/08 15:44]  Whirly Fizzle: I think all TPVs have it actually. Its really popular & useful feature but you have to be really careful when you use it.
[2014/05/08 15:45]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): making it 'lost'
[2014/05/08 15:45]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think the no-copy restriction would be a good idea
[2014/05/08 15:45]  Whirly Fizzle: Im always accidentally deleting rezzed stuff with a misclick. I can just restore it all to where it was :)
[2014/05/08 15:45]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so then, in the worst case, rather than losing an object you'd only be littering
[2014/05/08 15:45]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah definitely
[2014/05/08 15:46]  Rex Cronon: wouldn't that allow people to introduce objects on parcels they don't own?
[2014/05/08 15:46]  Whirly Fizzle: It would be nice to have it properly working in the official viewer too though ;)
[2014/05/08 15:46]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:46]  Whirly Fizzle: No, Rez will fail Rex
[2014/05/08 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: that used to be an exploit combat HUD creators were making as features in their HUDs, "Rezon no rez land"
[2014/05/08 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: although you can still do it differently
[2014/05/08 15:47]  Whirly Fizzle: You used to always be able to rez at 0,0,0 on any region. That was a nasty bug
[2014/05/08 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: right
[2014/05/08 15:48]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:48]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think for it to work properly, the sim would need to know if 'last position' is in the same sim that the user is trying to rez it in
[2014/05/08 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: grid pos check
[2014/05/08 15:48]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, to combat that earlier case that I mentioned about accidentally rezzing the object in the wrong region
[2014/05/08 15:48]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm so you wouldnt be able to restore on a different region?
[2014/05/08 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But I don't believe objects currently store last reigon, so you'd have to add that.  and then the feature would only work on recent object assets, which would be frustrating.
[2014/05/08 15:49]  Rex Cronon: it would be interesting if it would also move the object to the orignal sim
[2014/05/08 15:49]  Whirly Fizzle: Its really useful for moving whole sim builds to a new region.
[2014/05/08 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, I suppose 'restore to last position' in a different region would only make sense if the regions share the same layout?
[2014/05/08 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, I see
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah. Wasnt that its original use? To help people move over to Zindra if they had a full region to move
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and then you do the export / import of terrain .raw to clone terrain?
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'd forgotten about that  - maybe you're right
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: I'd like to have a transfer to region option, heh
[2014/05/08 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: esp for my servers that I want to relocate
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Whirly Fizzle: You can get a region moved &/or renamed but its not free
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: talking mainland parcel to mainland parcel
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: so I can keep the same key
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: since MP ANS SUX
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Whirly Fizzle: ahhh
[2014/05/08 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2014/05/08 15:52]  Larre Leborski: Hmmm... For me I just try and select everything, take it up, and then rez it back down to it's new location, but that can be quite frustrating as well.
[2014/05/08 15:52]  Larre Leborski: so many small objects to pick up.
[2014/05/08 15:52]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe we can rework that feature some day.  it would be nice to have a reliable way to bulk rez builds (more reliable than simple coalesced object rezzing)
[2014/05/08 15:53]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, doesn't matter if you miss some on 1st pass with restore to last though, because it will keep the arrangement perfectly
[2014/05/08 15:53]  Rex Cronon: to bad we don't have llMoveObj(string simName, vector pos)
[2014/05/08 15:53]  Larre Leborski: Indeed.
[2014/05/08 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I'm sure teh griffs are crying we don't either, but then again they have tpv's taht can remote rez anyeay
[2014/05/08 15:54]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): just use llSetRegionPos() across mainland until your stuff hopefully arrives at the destination :)
[2014/05/08 15:54]  Whirly Fizzle: You can just mass resturn all your stuff from the old region & restore it to last on your new region. Takes minutes rather then a few hrs to copy a regions contents over
[2014/05/08 15:54]  Rex Cronon: hopping from sim to sim. lol
[2014/05/08 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: he means from one continent to anotehr
[2014/05/08 15:55]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, if you could select all your objects in the parcel somehow, that would be neat
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm you kinda can if you use pathfinding linksets
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Rex Cronon: u guys know what else would be useful llClickObj(uuid objKey, int objSide, vector posOnSide)
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Select all your stuff and take
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: click obj needs to be perms based imo
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): unless it's volumedetect or physical..
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or a tree
[2014/05/08 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: it can be easily abused and event blockade scripts
[2014/05/08 15:57]  Larre Leborski: Pathfinding :-)
[2014/05/08 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (linden tree)
[2014/05/08 15:57]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh God..... Linden plants are a pain if they end up in a coalesced object
[2014/05/08 15:58]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Right, I recall a bug where you couldn't rez such a coalesced object unless it was on your parcel,
[2014/05/08 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[2014/05/08 15:58]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and if somebody sold their only parcel, they'd be unable to rez that object anywhere
[2014/05/08 15:59]  Whirly Fizzle: Still happens. You need rights to rez Linden plants/trees. Torleys region called "Here" lets you though - or it used to
[2014/05/08 15:59]  Whirly Fizzle: Or support can give you access to Unpackistan
[2014/05/08 15:59]  Rex Cronon: unpackistan? weird name:)
[2014/05/08 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: neat name
[2014/05/08 16:00]  Whirly Fizzle: It let us unpack problem objects there
[2014/05/08 16:00]  Larre Leborski: Well guys, I will be going very soon here. Gotta get to the bowling stadium in rl :-)
[2014/05/08 16:00]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/05/08 16:00]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/05/08 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, we are actually are out of time
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Rex Cronon: i g2g 2
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: which is why we had an option to allow o rdisallow coalesced object rezzing
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Rex Cronon: tc everybody
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Rex Cronon: and have a nice day:)
[2014/05/08 16:01]  rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Larre Leborski: And thanks guys soo much.
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: because in unpacking cases or inv cleanign cases people don't see where the prims go
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: not to mention the rez threshold versus single object rezzing threshold exploit
[2014/05/08 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, it can be rather 'dangerous' if the coalesced object is spread out
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we intend to clean up that rez rate stuff, Lucia - it's too easy to make your object unrezzable, currently
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (due to too many scripts)
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Larre Leborski: Was actually able to make it to SF yesterday. Will be back around there in 2016, when the next big tournament hits Reno again.
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Larre Leborski: tc all :-)
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, we should wrap up - thanks for coming everybody!
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: you're down to 1000 scripts for all objects atm, ya?
[2014/05/08 16:02]  Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Baker Linden: thanks everyone!
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro and Baker.
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Larre Leborski: Yepperz. Thx soo much Lindens :-)
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Baker Linden: Mac Group Ban build has about 10 minutes left :)
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Caleb Linden: ciao
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, you can make a coalesced set with 1000 scripts in one object and a few scripts in the other object, and then not be able to rez the coalesced set
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Whirly Fizzle: I think its still 1000 scripts yeah
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Baker Linden: Have a fantastic weekend everyone!
[2014/05/08 16:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you Caleb.
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Larre Leborski: And in 2016 I will be sure to actually make an appointment before rolling over the hill :-)
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: I outlined the resource issues with coalesced rezzing in the resource control jira
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Larre Leborski: :-)
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Larre Leborski: Nite all :-)
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lights out!
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: and later
[2014/05/08 16:04]  Larre Leborski: :-)