Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-05-08
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[2014/05/08 15:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys [2014/05/08 15:01] Inara Breen: It's a Maestro! [2014/05/08 15:01] Larre Leborski: Hi Maestro :-) [2014/05/08 15:01] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro [2014/05/08 15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro. [2014/05/08 15:02] Larre Leborski: indeed :-) [2014/05/08 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The agenda is actually pretty empty today [2014/05/08 15:03] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda [2014/05/08 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the only big update to Agni this week was the group chat update [2014/05/08 15:04] Larre Leborski: Hi caleb :-) [2014/05/08 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which went out on Monday morning [2014/05/08 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so now all groups are using the newer backend for group chat [2014/05/08 15:05] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:05] Nal (nalates.urriah): Koool [2014/05/08 15:05] Whirly Fizzle: Cool :) It does seem better but hard to say if thats placebo heh [2014/05/08 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, Simon found that the effects were rather subtle, [2014/05/08 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but this version has better analytics, so he has some ideas about what can be approached next to improve group performance [2014/05/08 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there has been some movement in group ban this week [2014/05/08 15:07] Larre Leborski: Hi Baker. [2014/05/08 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): mostly on the viewer, [2014/05/08 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though baker did just fix this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5929 [2014/05/08 15:07] Whirly Fizzle: Yay Baker [2014/05/08 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (which was server side - it used to return a 400 'Bad Access' if your list of avatars to ban included some which you weren't allowed to ban) [2014/05/08 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): now it just bans all the avatars you're allowed to ban [2014/05/08 15:09] Baker Linden: Hello Larre, everyone :) [2014/05/08 15:09] Whirly Fizzle: New viewer ready to break then? :D [2014/05/08 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes.. let's see.. [2014/05/08 15:10] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:10] Baker Linden: in a couple hours, Whirly [2014/05/08 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I guess we can't link to the build results page until the build finished [2014/05/08 15:11] Larre Leborski: breaking the new viewer :-) [2014/05/08 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Well, you can, this always brings up latest build automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_viewer-voorhees-groupban/latest.html [2014/05/08 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, that works. The latest Linux build is also ready: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_voorhees_groupban/rev/289887/arch/Linux/index.html [2014/05/08 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: OOOh https://bitbucket.org/baker_linden/voorhees_groupban is publiuc now. I hadnt noticed that [2014/05/08 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: *public [2014/05/08 15:14] Baker Linden: I was given the go-ahead [2014/05/08 15:14] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:14] Whirly Fizzle: Cools [2014/05/08 15:14] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:14] Baker Linden: you'll find that the newest viewer, when it finishes, will be an official project viewer [2014/05/08 15:14] Baker Linden: well, it's configured to be [2014/05/08 15:14] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): excellent [2014/05/08 15:15] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:16] Whirly Fizzle: How long till the server end is on an RC? [2014/05/08 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, first we need to get the backend host code deployed to production [2014/05/08 15:17] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's almost ready, but it just changed due to the BUG-5929 fix [2014/05/08 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think we'll want that to be out at least a week (in case there were regressions) before putting any sims on a group ban RC [2014/05/08 15:18] Whirly Fizzle: Is that fix on this region now? [2014/05/08 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes the fix is on a backend host, so it's aditi-wide [2014/05/08 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh [2014/05/08 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): no it's not. [2014/05/08 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me needs to bug somebody for that deploy again [2014/05/08 15:20] Whirly Fizzle: When its deployed, will this region show a different number to DRTSIM-234 14.05.05.289712 ? [2014/05/08 15:21] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Nope, the fix was in the backend host.. so there won't be a version change in the sim to indicate the status of that [2014/05/08 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: ahh okay. [2014/05/08 15:21] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'll.. let you know when it's ready [2014/05/08 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: Okay ta [2014/05/08 15:22] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, we're hoping that's the last non-viewer groupban bug, so we can get the RC going [2014/05/08 15:23] Rex Cronon: greetings:) [2014/05/08 15:23] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Howdy [2014/05/08 15:23] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Rex [2014/05/08 15:23] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex. [2014/05/08 15:23] Rex Cronon: hi maestro, whrily, yuzuru [2014/05/08 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Caleb and I have been pretty busy with rather mundane updates to backend hosts, which are important but don't offer any new features. [2014/05/08 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which is why we don't have much to talk about in the way of sim updates this week [2014/05/08 15:25] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:26] Rex Cronon: how is the group chat fixing? [2014/05/08 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Ah, I mentioned earlier that Simon's update went out to the rest of group chat servers on Monday [2014/05/08 15:26] Larre Leborski: Hmm.. thought i was crashing. Hotel Internet is a very strange beast ;-) [2014/05/08 15:28] Rex Cronon: maybe your dancing is affection your internets:) [2014/05/08 15:28] Rex Cronon: affecting* [2014/05/08 15:28] Caleb Linden: i like that star effect [2014/05/08 15:28] Larre Leborski: Possible :-) [2014/05/08 15:29] Larre Leborski: Indeed yea. Had these stars for a very long time :-0 [2014/05/08 15:29] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:31] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Have any of you run into https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5962 recently? [2014/05/08 15:31] Larre Leborski: Hmmm.. not yet. [2014/05/08 15:31] Whirly Fizzle: I didn't try to repro that one yet [2014/05/08 15:31] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if it happens anywhere, I'd guess it would be common in combat sims [2014/05/08 15:32] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:32] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I gave it a try by guessing at what they're doing, but the bug isn't happening for me. [2014/05/08 15:32] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): On the other hand, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5961 is pretty reliable [2014/05/08 15:32] Whirly Fizzle: Ugh yeah [2014/05/08 15:32] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it looks like the viewer won't let you leave a group until you've fetched the members list. [2014/05/08 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: At least text viewers allow you to leave [2014/05/08 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and if you get impatient and hit 'Leave' a 2nd time, it starts over again with the list fetch [2014/05/08 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and this group just happens to be pretty huge [2014/05/08 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm going to give it a second try with the STORM-2011 viewer [2014/05/08 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: Thats because no one can leave :D [2014/05/08 15:33] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me renames it to "Hotel California" [2014/05/08 15:34] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): -> expected behavior :-P [2014/05/08 15:34] Larre Leborski: Lolz!! [2014/05/08 15:34] Caleb Linden: such a lovely place [2014/05/08 15:34] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 15:34] Rex Cronon: too bad we don't have a 10 million users group.... [2014/05/08 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: Those storm changes don't fix it. Well, weve had Ansas changes in FS for a while now & bug still repros on FS [2014/05/08 15:34] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay [2014/05/08 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: May get lucky on the official though heh [2014/05/08 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: Oh, maestro, do you know if the Restore to last position ability is going to be blocked serverside? [2014/05/08 15:39] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, yes.. we talked about that this morning [2014/05/08 15:39] Larre Leborski: Hmmm... [2014/05/08 15:39] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): here's the context: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5955 [2014/05/08 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: I saw your comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5955 [2014/05/08 15:40] Larre Leborski: Getting rid of "restore to last position"? [2014/05/08 15:40] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes.. so for some history.. 'restore to last position' used to be in the Linden viewer [2014/05/08 15:40] Whirly Fizzle: At the least Id like to see the viewers that use it block it from being used on any no copy objects [2014/05/08 15:40] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but then it was removed in 2009, I believe in 1.23, because there were content loss problems [2014/05/08 15:41] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that issue was https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13105 (well, that's the one I found - there may have been other problems) [2014/05/08 15:41] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): one issue is that 'restore to last position' doesn't have a concept of which region the objects were previously in [2014/05/08 15:42] Whirly Fizzle: That game table case is really weird though. It seems it just can't store its last rezzed position. [2014/05/08 15:42] Larre Leborski: Indeed. I do remember that "restore to last position" always failed if one did not have build rights on the 0,0,0 position on a sim. [2014/05/08 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so if you took a box from <207,201,23> in Morris, then accidentally did 'restore to last position' in some other region (say, a mountainous one0, those coordinates may be deep underground [2014/05/08 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, that's goofy too [2014/05/08 15:42] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:43] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, the 'fix' to that 2009 bug was to remove the option from the viewer UI [2014/05/08 15:43] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but some (most?) TPVs still include it [2014/05/08 15:43] Larre Leborski: /me knows the Singularity viewer has it... [2014/05/08 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Well, if restrore fails because you don't have rez rights at 0,0,0, if the object was no copy it will poof from inventory, but it will come back after a relog (same as if normal rez fails for a no copy object). But that game table... it seems gone for good. [2014/05/08 15:44] Rex Cronon: u could move object uderground with that? [2014/05/08 15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, or alternatively it could be in the sky somewhere [2014/05/08 15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or inside some other prim [2014/05/08 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: I think all TPVs have it actually. Its really popular & useful feature but you have to be really careful when you use it. [2014/05/08 15:45] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): making it 'lost' [2014/05/08 15:45] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think the no-copy restriction would be a good idea [2014/05/08 15:45] Whirly Fizzle: Im always accidentally deleting rezzed stuff with a misclick. I can just restore it all to where it was :) [2014/05/08 15:45] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so then, in the worst case, rather than losing an object you'd only be littering [2014/05/08 15:45] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah definitely [2014/05/08 15:46] Rex Cronon: wouldn't that allow people to introduce objects on parcels they don't own? [2014/05/08 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: It would be nice to have it properly working in the official viewer too though ;) [2014/05/08 15:46] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: No, Rez will fail Rex [2014/05/08 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: that used to be an exploit combat HUD creators were making as features in their HUDs, "Rezon no rez land" [2014/05/08 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: although you can still do it differently [2014/05/08 15:47] Whirly Fizzle: You used to always be able to rez at 0,0,0 on any region. That was a nasty bug [2014/05/08 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: right [2014/05/08 15:48] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think for it to work properly, the sim would need to know if 'last position' is in the same sim that the user is trying to rez it in [2014/05/08 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: grid pos check [2014/05/08 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, to combat that earlier case that I mentioned about accidentally rezzing the object in the wrong region [2014/05/08 15:48] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm so you wouldnt be able to restore on a different region? [2014/05/08 15:49] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But I don't believe objects currently store last reigon, so you'd have to add that. and then the feature would only work on recent object assets, which would be frustrating. [2014/05/08 15:49] Rex Cronon: it would be interesting if it would also move the object to the orignal sim [2014/05/08 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: Its really useful for moving whole sim builds to a new region. [2014/05/08 15:49] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, I suppose 'restore to last position' in a different region would only make sense if the regions share the same layout? [2014/05/08 15:49] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, I see [2014/05/08 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah. Wasnt that its original use? To help people move over to Zindra if they had a full region to move [2014/05/08 15:50] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and then you do the export / import of terrain .raw to clone terrain? [2014/05/08 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: Ya [2014/05/08 15:50] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'd forgotten about that - maybe you're right [2014/05/08 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: I'd like to have a transfer to region option, heh [2014/05/08 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: esp for my servers that I want to relocate [2014/05/08 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: You can get a region moved &/or renamed but its not free [2014/05/08 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: talking mainland parcel to mainland parcel [2014/05/08 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: so I can keep the same key [2014/05/08 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: since MP ANS SUX [2014/05/08 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh [2014/05/08 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: lol [2014/05/08 15:52] Larre Leborski: Hmmm... For me I just try and select everything, take it up, and then rez it back down to it's new location, but that can be quite frustrating as well. [2014/05/08 15:52] Larre Leborski: so many small objects to pick up. [2014/05/08 15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe we can rework that feature some day. it would be nice to have a reliable way to bulk rez builds (more reliable than simple coalesced object rezzing) [2014/05/08 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, doesn't matter if you miss some on 1st pass with restore to last though, because it will keep the arrangement perfectly [2014/05/08 15:53] Rex Cronon: to bad we don't have llMoveObj(string simName, vector pos) [2014/05/08 15:53] Larre Leborski: Indeed. [2014/05/08 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I'm sure teh griffs are crying we don't either, but then again they have tpv's taht can remote rez anyeay [2014/05/08 15:54] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): just use llSetRegionPos() across mainland until your stuff hopefully arrives at the destination :) [2014/05/08 15:54] Whirly Fizzle: You can just mass resturn all your stuff from the old region & restore it to last on your new region. Takes minutes rather then a few hrs to copy a regions contents over [2014/05/08 15:54] Rex Cronon: hopping from sim to sim. lol [2014/05/08 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: he means from one continent to anotehr [2014/05/08 15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, if you could select all your objects in the parcel somehow, that would be neat [2014/05/08 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm you kinda can if you use pathfinding linksets [2014/05/08 15:56] Rex Cronon: u guys know what else would be useful llClickObj(uuid objKey, int objSide, vector posOnSide) [2014/05/08 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: Select all your stuff and take [2014/05/08 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: click obj needs to be perms based imo [2014/05/08 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): unless it's volumedetect or physical.. [2014/05/08 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or a tree [2014/05/08 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: it can be easily abused and event blockade scripts [2014/05/08 15:57] Larre Leborski: Pathfinding :-) [2014/05/08 15:57] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (linden tree) [2014/05/08 15:57] Whirly Fizzle: Oh God..... Linden plants are a pain if they end up in a coalesced object [2014/05/08 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Right, I recall a bug where you couldn't rez such a coalesced object unless it was on your parcel, [2014/05/08 15:58] Whirly Fizzle: Ya [2014/05/08 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and if somebody sold their only parcel, they'd be unable to rez that object anywhere [2014/05/08 15:59] Whirly Fizzle: Still happens. You need rights to rez Linden plants/trees. Torleys region called "Here" lets you though - or it used to [2014/05/08 15:59] Whirly Fizzle: Or support can give you access to Unpackistan [2014/05/08 15:59] Rex Cronon: unpackistan? weird name:) [2014/05/08 16:00] Lucia Nightfire: neat name [2014/05/08 16:00] Whirly Fizzle: It let us unpack problem objects there [2014/05/08 16:00] Larre Leborski: Well guys, I will be going very soon here. Gotta get to the bowling stadium in rl :-) [2014/05/08 16:00] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1 [2014/05/08 16:00] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1 [2014/05/08 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, we are actually are out of time [2014/05/08 16:01] Rex Cronon: i g2g 2 [2014/05/08 16:01] Lucia Nightfire: which is why we had an option to allow o rdisallow coalesced object rezzing [2014/05/08 16:01] Rex Cronon: tc everybody [2014/05/08 16:01] Rex Cronon: and have a nice day:) [2014/05/08 16:01] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1 [2014/05/08 16:01] Larre Leborski: And thanks guys soo much. [2014/05/08 16:01] Lucia Nightfire: because in unpacking cases or inv cleanign cases people don't see where the prims go [2014/05/08 16:01] Lucia Nightfire: not to mention the rez threshold versus single object rezzing threshold exploit [2014/05/08 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, it can be rather 'dangerous' if the coalesced object is spread out [2014/05/08 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we intend to clean up that rez rate stuff, Lucia - it's too easy to make your object unrezzable, currently [2014/05/08 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (due to too many scripts) [2014/05/08 16:02] Larre Leborski: Was actually able to make it to SF yesterday. Will be back around there in 2016, when the next big tournament hits Reno again. [2014/05/08 16:02] Larre Leborski: tc all :-) [2014/05/08 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, we should wrap up - thanks for coming everybody! [2014/05/08 16:02] Lucia Nightfire: you're down to 1000 scripts for all objects atm, ya? [2014/05/08 16:02] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens [2014/05/08 16:03] Baker Linden: thanks everyone! [2014/05/08 16:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro and Baker. [2014/05/08 16:03] Larre Leborski: Yepperz. Thx soo much Lindens :-) [2014/05/08 16:03] Baker Linden: Mac Group Ban build has about 10 minutes left :) [2014/05/08 16:03] Caleb Linden: ciao [2014/05/08 16:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, you can make a coalesced set with 1000 scripts in one object and a few scripts in the other object, and then not be able to rez the coalesced set [2014/05/08 16:03] Whirly Fizzle: I think its still 1000 scripts yeah [2014/05/08 16:03] Baker Linden: Have a fantastic weekend everyone! [2014/05/08 16:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you Caleb. [2014/05/08 16:04] Larre Leborski: And in 2016 I will be sure to actually make an appointment before rolling over the hill :-) [2014/05/08 16:04] Lucia Nightfire: I outlined the resource issues with coalesced rezzing in the resource control jira [2014/05/08 16:04] Larre Leborski: :-) [2014/05/08 16:04] Larre Leborski: Nite all :-) [2014/05/08 16:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lights out! [2014/05/08 16:04] Lucia Nightfire: and later [2014/05/08 16:04] Larre Leborski: :-)