Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-06-19

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[2014/06/19 14:59]  Inara Breen: Hi, folks!
[2014/06/19 14:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/06/19 14:59]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Nalates, Inara.
[2014/06/19 14:59]  Theresa Tennyson: Hello!
[2014/06/19 14:59]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/06/19 14:59]  Inara Breen: Hi, Yuzuru, Maestro
[2014/06/19 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, let's get started:
[2014/06/19 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): We don't have many topics today.. I just have the updates announcements
[2014/06/19 15:04]  Inara Breen: Hey, Baker!
[2014/06/19 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So Baker's group ban simulator went out to the main channel
[2014/06/19 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the group ban project viewer was also released at about the same time
[2014/06/19 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): group ban is now grid-wide on Agni, so it should be fully effective now
[2014/06/19 15:05]  Baker Linden: awwww yiss
[2014/06/19 15:05]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay Baker
[2014/06/19 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Whirly went on a bit of a rampage filing bugs against the group ban viewer, but none of them are very major
[2014/06/19 15:05]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): now we just need to get all the viewers updated, included LL's :P
[2014/06/19 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yep
[2014/06/19 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It looks like some of the viewer bugs will be fixed soon, so I would expect at least one more project viewer version
[2014/06/19 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): For the RCs, there wasn't a whole lot of change
[2014/06/19 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): BlueSteel is still on the AISv3 "inventory update" project
[2014/06/19 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and Magnum is still on experience tools
[2014/06/19 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the only change for those two this week was to include the group ban changes, and also to get some 'anti-griefing measure'
[2014/06/19 15:08]  Lucia Nightfire: You plan on discussing what that is about once its on main channel? I certainly know hwat it doesn't address, lol.
[2014/06/19 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): LeTigre is on a mini maintenance project, which only includes the same 'anti-griefing measure'
[2014/06/19 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, exactly Lucia
[2014/06/19 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think I'll be able to discuss the change next week
[2014/06/19 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But right now, some people would unfortunately use the information as a how-to-grief instructional :)
[2014/06/19 15:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): In terms of upcoming changes, it's very likely that LSL support for materials will enter RC next week
[2014/06/19 15:10]  Jenna Felton: wow, that would be fast :)
[2014/06/19 15:10]  arton Rotaru: depends on
[2014/06/19 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, it depends on how this week's RCs do
[2014/06/19 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I suspect that at least LeTigre should be 'ok' to promote to the main channel, to free up that slot
[2014/06/19 15:11]  arton Rotaru: coolio
[2014/06/19 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or I guess somebody could file a bug against the feature on Aditi, which could delay it
[2014/06/19 15:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but that hasn't happened so far..
[2014/06/19 15:12]  Jenna Felton: yes i mean the time from "one project ready to deploy" to "another one ready" would be fast in this case, just about 2 weeks :)
[2014/06/19 15:13]  arton Rotaru: I meant, it could have been done a year ago alrady^^
[2014/06/19 15:13]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Have any of you been using group ban in a non-testing context?
[2014/06/19 15:14]  Lucia Nightfire: the scritped tp crashign scripts bug could have been fixed years ago too, lol
[2014/06/19 15:14]  arton Rotaru: but that's fixed now, isn't it?
[2014/06/19 15:14]  Lucia Nightfire: ya
[2014/06/19 15:15]  arton Rotaru: I managed 7 years of Sl without owning a group^^, so no testing/using from my side
[2014/06/19 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: and with ym sb groups that function is too dangerous to be in teh hands of anyone other than the group owner so I won't be testing it myself
[2014/06/19 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: *my
[2014/06/19 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oh, speaking of updates, the release viewer was updated to the one that supports AISv3:
[2014/06/19 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So there will be a bit more exposure to that feature on BlueSteel
[2014/06/19 15:18]  arton Rotaru: I have again these high packets in/out numbers
[2014/06/19 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you know what arton, I realized that I was misreading my statistics bar last time
[2014/06/19 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think you probably were as well..
[2014/06/19 15:19]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): i liked the tweet LL Sent out asking how well the new release viewer was working.. but yet heardly anyone could actually make use of the new feature :P
[2014/06/19 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): are you sure that you're not looking in the Simulator section?
[2014/06/19 15:19]  arton Rotaru: oh^^
[2014/06/19 15:19]  arton Rotaru: lets see
[2014/06/19 15:20]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (it would make sense that the sim is sending more data than it receives, as both of us saw last week..)
[2014/06/19 15:20]  arton Rotaru: yeah it's indeed in the simulator section
[2014/06/19 15:21]  Jenna Felton: where it is supposed to be? i see only there pacets inout
[2014/06/19 15:21]  Inara Breen: Have there been any reports of people having issues camming / mousing over the global map with the release viewers (either interest list or the latest)?
[2014/06/19 15:21]  arton Rotaru: the other numbers are fine
[2014/06/19 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Jenna, so there's packets in / out under simulator
[2014/06/19 15:21]  arton Rotaru: 50/30
[2014/06/19 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which reports the server's bandwidth usage
[2014/06/19 15:21]  Jenna Felton: ah, found also in advanced section
[2014/06/19 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and for the viewer, it appears again under advanced -> network
[2014/06/19 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think it would be nice if the labels were differentiated..
[2014/06/19 15:23]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe "Sim Packets In" instead of simply "Packets In", etc..
[2014/06/19 15:23]  Theresa Tennyson: The release viewer isn't doing a good job loading textures in texture-heavy places right now.
[2014/06/19 15:23]  Jenna Felton: yes, advanced - packets in/out = 34/37 per second, simulator- about 400/600 pps
[2014/06/19 15:24]  AnnMarie Otoole: Maestro, would it be possible to get some progress on BUG-5530 / MAINT-3897, pretty please? My projects have been shut down for over 2 months now :(
[2014/06/19 15:24]  arton Rotaru: see, 7 years of Second Life and still can't read the statistics bar correctly ^^
[2014/06/19 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): AnnMarie, I'm not a developer, but I can pass the sentiment on to the rest of the maintenance team
[2014/06/19 15:25]  AnnMarie Otoole: Cool, thanks.
[2014/06/19 15:25]  Inara Breen: Re: camera / mousing issues; I've not encountered anything, but have had some cooments left on the blog:, and have also had three people IM me with grumbles.
[2014/06/19 15:26]  Inara Breen: Not exactly a truckload, but all are saying pretty much the same, Linix & Windows from what I can gather.
[2014/06/19 15:26]  Inara Breen: Linux*
[2014/06/19 15:27]  Inara Breen: (sorry for dropping stuff in, the usual bouncing between here and the physical world)
[2014/06/19 15:28]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, camera focusing with 290582 seems pretty snappy for me on linux and mac (don't have windows handy)
[2014/06/19 15:29]  Inara Breen: Yeah, I've not encountered anything, so was more curious than anything.
[2014/06/19 15:29]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Although there is a bug with Mac currently, where when I'm alt-camming, any vertical mouse movement gets mapped to "zoom out all the way", which is pretty annoying.
[2014/06/19 15:29]  arton Rotaru: I haen't noticed any issue with the cam on widows yet
[2014/06/19 15:29]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think there would be many reports about a widespread issue on Windows.. more so than Linux, for sure
[2014/06/19 15:30]  Inara Breen: Yup.
[2014/06/19 15:31]  Inara Breen: The blog comment was Linux. After it was posted I got three "me as well!" IMs from others, two of whom I know generally run Windows.
[2014/06/19 15:32]  Inara Breen: I'd said I'd ask here, but if issues can be repro'd, they should submit a JIRA. People tend to go quiet after saying things like that ...
[2014/06/19 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah that's true :)
[2014/06/19 15:33]  Lucia Nightfire: only thing I noticed recently is that my avatars reported rotation bounces around when I start and stop a linear dir walk, I had to change to using my camera rot as a ref since its 100x more stable
[2014/06/19 15:33]  Lucia Nightfire: probably should file a jira on it since its just wierd
[2014/06/19 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, there haven't been any physics changes that would've caused that in quite a while
[2014/06/19 15:34]  Lucia Nightfire: I have a repro item too
[2014/06/19 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I wonder if there's been some change to the viewer that slightly affects input?  I don't know what that would be though, phantom rotational control events?
[2014/06/19 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): this is in non-mouselook mode, right?
[2014/06/19 15:34]  Lucia Nightfire: right
[2014/06/19 15:35]  Siana Gearz: hais
[2014/06/19 15:35]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay.. because in mouselook mode, the reported rotation in attachments matches the rotation of the mouselook camera
[2014/06/19 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: I made a radar object that has a norht indicator that bounces around when my av's rot is ref, instead of my cam's rot which keeps it stable
[2014/06/19 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: *North
[2014/06/19 15:36]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm not surprised that the camera rotation would be more stable in general, since it's generally dampened.  But I don't know when your avatar rotation would suddenly fidget around
[2014/06/19 15:36]  Lucia Nightfire: it does with rotating the avatar naturally, but
[2014/06/19 15:36]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I guess it's bugworthy.. it would be nice to have an idea of when things behaved any differently, though..
[2014/06/19 15:36]  Lucia Nightfire: this is bouncing aroudn with in-line movement startign and stopping
[2014/06/19 15:36]  Jenna Felton: i have learned caming with ctrl schift alt keys on my own. so i'd never say what is a bug and what intended :) even if i see a bug i could say it must be so
[2014/06/19 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: I'll put together a jira later I have many still to do
[2014/06/19 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: reminds me
[2014/06/19 15:38]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, that's a common issue with small quirks.. people become accustomed to them and design their content around them
[2014/06/19 15:38]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so suddenly changing certain things could suddenly cause problems
[2014/06/19 15:38]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay
[2014/06/19 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: afaik, this wasn't always teh case but I never previously made an app dependant on stable rot ref the av or cam
[2014/06/19 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: when walking in a straight line that is, lol
[2014/06/19 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: reminds me of that one change Andrew made with the cam not updating its pos ever 10 deg
[2014/06/19 15:39]  arton Rotaru: perhaps your AV is drinking too much when your offline :p
[2014/06/19 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: or inverse that, heh
[2014/06/19 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: is there a reason why teh server is clampign certain prim params at lwo precisions?
[2014/06/19 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: liek shear for instance?
[2014/06/19 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: its calmped at 0.01
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: increments
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: talkgin the server not the viewer btw
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: *low
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: bah typing
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I don't know about sheer off the top of my head, but you may notice that with LSL materials, there's quantization
[2014/06/19 15:41]  Jenna Felton: i noticed that clamping too, for hole size for example and path cut
[2014/06/19 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, theres reverting once its set
[2014/06/19 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): like materials repeats, offsets, etc. are actually transmitted as integers, with a scaling factor of 10000
[2014/06/19 15:43]  Jenna Felton: so it stores the numbers in optimized way, like using a "byte" instead of "double" ?
[2014/06/19 15:43]  Jenna Felton: ah
[2014/06/19 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so you can have a repeats value of 1.0001 or 1.0002, but not 1.00015
[2014/06/19 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: with shear its at 0.01 which is kind of low imo
[2014/06/19 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: I resorted to using shear in that radar app to udate teh icons as shape changing on child prims on HUD's doesn't invoke interpolation
[2014/06/19 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: instead of pos setting
[2014/06/19 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: so I don't have icons bouncing around, heh
[2014/06/19 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: but the precision on shear is very low
[2014/06/19 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: my repro obj is on agni sadly, lol
[2014/06/19 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: guess file anotehr jira huh, lol
[2014/06/19 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, I'm not sure where the quantization happens
[2014/06/19 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: I couldn't a find anything on the jira with the keywords I searched, but I think I saw one about the issue before, probably years ago, heh
[2014/06/19 15:54]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, just broke
[2014/06/19 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: some many deer so few headlights
[2014/06/19 15:55]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2014/06/19 15:55]  Jenna Felton: white page instead
[2014/06/19 15:55]  Baker Linden: I have to go everyone.  Thanks for coming and have a fantastic weekend!
[2014/06/19 15:55]  Theresa Tennyson: See you later, Baker...
[2014/06/19 15:57]  Lucia Nightfire: also, not sure if its related yet, but that inv thing on Blue Steel I think is conflicting with prim owners refreshing when agents are entering/leaving the region, moreso than ever before
[2014/06/19 15:57]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx Baker
[2014/06/19 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): You mean for inworld objects, Lucia?
[2014/06/19 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: I mean refreshign teh list yields nothing when there are people in teh process of tping out of the region
[2014/06/19 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: if you were on a tpv when notifications fo peopel leaving and enterign you could time it perfectly, heh
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Like under about land -> objects?
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I wouldn't expect that to be related to inventory fetching..
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Lucia Nightfire: and yes
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the wiki is back up!
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Lucia Nightfire: its been a problem for soem time, but on BS regions it seems to be worse
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): just in time for us to wrap up and me to post the chat log
[2014/06/19 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): even when you're using a non-AISv3 viewer?
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: right
[2014/06/19 16:00]  arton Rotaru: have a nice weekend every1
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: don't know how its related, just bringing it up
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there really ought to be no difference between BlueSteel and LeTigre if you're accessing the older version of the inventory service..
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, I'll keep my eyes open
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you too arton
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'll head out too
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx Lindens
[2014/06/19 16:00]  arton Rotaru: thx
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/06/19 16:00]  Caleb Linden: thx
[2014/06/19 16:01]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/06/19 16:01]  Inara Breen: ...Thanks, Maestro, Caleb