Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-09-04

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[2014/09/04 14:59]  Rex Cronon: hi lucia
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Rex Cronon: well .it seems so lucia. my logger works here but onot on main
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hello
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Rex Cronon: hi caleb
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Lucia Nightfire: this region has a different host
[2014/09/04 14:59]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2014/09/04 15:00]  Kennylex Luckless: hia
[2014/09/04 15:00]  Simon Linden: no Rex we haven't touched those
[2014/09/04 15:00]  Rex Cronon: hi kennylex
[2014/09/04 15:01]  Jenna Felton: hi Maestro , Caleb, Duckie
[2014/09/04 15:01]  Lucia Nightfire: llXorBase64() shouldn't have changed unless some new infrastructure change appended it with a new software version, but that would have a shockwave of affects on products I'd think, heh
[2014/09/04 15:01]  Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Margithe Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/09/04 15:01]  Rex Cronon: weird
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Simon Linden: correct, Lucia.   We can't touch the existing functions.   That's really a general rule but this is a perfect example why
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Margithe: Got your logger working again?
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Lucia Nightfire: I'd still look at if your ISP or web services is blocking agni regions
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Nalates.
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Rex Cronon: it works here. not sure if it works on main margith
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Hi Yuzuru
[2014/09/04 15:02]  Lucia Nightfire: *agni hosts
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Inara.
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Rex Cronon: it reaches my server but message encryption seems borked
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Inara Breen: Hi, all!
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Actually, I think we did fix llXorBase64 at some point, but that was very soon after it was relased
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): for this issue BUG-3763
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Lucia Nightfire: I use salted xorb64 on some of my apps, I would know if it was changed, heh
[2014/09/04 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, it's private access.
[2014/09/04 15:04]  Rex Cronon: maybe next week i will find the time to investigate what is going on
[2014/09/04 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that was like the 3rd version of that function we debuted, as the earlier variants had other quirks which existing scripts were probably relying no
[2014/09/04 15:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): on
[2014/09/04 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, [https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda here's] the agenda
[2014/09/04 15:05]  Lucia Nightfire: glad I saved older xorcorrect tests before they were depreciated
[2014/09/04 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): This week, the main channel got what all 3 RCs previously had
[2014/09/04 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which included some minor bug fixes and some crash fixes
[2014/09/04 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The RC channels didn't have any updates
[2014/09/04 15:06]  Kennylex Luckless: Why is the lights here not moving?
[2014/09/04 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you mean the disco balls aren't spinning for you?
[2014/09/04 15:07]  Kennylex Luckless: Yes
[2014/09/04 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): they are for me
[2014/09/04 15:08]  Rex Cronon: the lindens forgot to pay the electrical bill;)
[2014/09/04 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (with the projected lights spinning too)
[2014/09/04 15:08]  Kennylex Luckless: They are on for me to but all stand still
[2014/09/04 15:08]  Kennylex Luckless: Weeeeee!
[2014/09/04 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): turned them off and on again
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, we'll have another maintenance project for server RC next week
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but it's more crash fixes and minor bugfixes
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Lucia Nightfire: SEC-1352 fixed?
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Lucia Nightfire: heh
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Not that one
[2014/09/04 15:09]  Lucia Nightfire: someday it will be, hopefully by SL2
[2014/09/04 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The only non-security bugfix was an issue where a Linden could get stuck in a gaming region.
[2014/09/04 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So once that fix is out, I'll no longer have an excuse to play cards all day :)
[2014/09/04 15:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The CDN for map tile fetching that we presented recently is coming along; April's tweaking the CDN configuration, but that should go to part of the main grid soon
[2014/09/04 15:13]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think that will be a good 'dry run' for using the CDN for texture and mesh fetching in the future
[2014/09/04 15:14]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So that's all I have for updates right now
[2014/09/04 15:15]  Lucia Nightfire: are you affiliated with teh progress of the exp project
[2014/09/04 15:15]  Duckie Dickins: thats kinda interesting...I sit on the disco ball and it stops spinning. lol
[2014/09/04 15:15]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): No, I don't work closely with the experience project
[2014/09/04 15:15]  Gibson Firehawk: any word on if the CDN changes will be eventually requiring viewer side changes?
[2014/09/04 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I did hear about some bugfixes in testing for experiences, but I don't have details right now
[2014/09/04 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't think they will, Gibson
[2014/09/04 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): however...
[2014/09/04 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): During mesh fetch testing with the CDN, we realized that we were throttled by a viewer's internal throttle
[2014/09/04 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the viewer 'only' requests 100 meshes/second
[2014/09/04 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): because the simulator has a similar throttle for answering those requests
[2014/09/04 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but with the CDN, the simulator's throttle is irrelevant
[2014/09/04 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Monty did a special build of his viewer (I'm not sure if the change was permanent) which removed the throttle
[2014/09/04 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and I benchmarked an average of ~365 meshes/second on the CDN region with it
[2014/09/04 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Which, in my mind, is approaching "fast enough" :)
[2014/09/04 15:18]  Gibson Firehawk: nice...hehe
[2014/09/04 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But anyway, that change is more about getting better performance with a new viewer than requiring an update
[2014/09/04 15:21]  Jenna Felton: is the number of mesh request connedtion not changeable in settings or debug settings somewhere?
[2014/09/04 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think it was set in the code
[2014/09/04 15:21]  Jenna Felton: (concurrent connections)
[2014/09/04 15:21]  Simon Linden: I'll bet after saying that, Maestro, another viewer comes out with a higher throttle :)
[2014/09/04 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I could see it being the case that we'd want to keep the throttle as a debug setting or something
[2014/09/04 15:23]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): because if mesh loading got way too fast, eventually you might have viewer performance issues from the insane download speed
[2014/09/04 15:23]  Simon Linden: I'm sure having some sane limit is a good idea
[2014/09/04 15:23]  Rex Cronon: 1000 meshes/seconds doesn't sound bad;)
[2014/09/04 15:23]  Rex Cronon: textures/second*
[2014/09/04 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: you need XP sP3 to achieve that, Rex, heh
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Jenna Felton: /me smiles
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Rex Cronon: ha. ha. u so funny:)
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Gibson Firehawk: 'rez time
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Gibson Firehawk: becomes blink time :P
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Lucia Nightfire: inr
[2014/09/04 15:24]  Lucia Nightfire: *ikr
[2014/09/04 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yuzuru did some benchmarks in the mesh and texture regions..
[2014/09/04 15:26]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): It is the all data, Maestro.
[2014/09/04 15:26]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): those results looked pretty good to me, though for some reason Monty's viewer was faster for you on 'TextureTest SLS' than 'TextureTest CDN'
[2014/09/04 15:27]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I am happy to hear it.
[2014/09/04 15:27]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It was nice to see that mesh load speed was doubled for you in the CDN region, under both viewers
[2014/09/04 15:27]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Which I think is similar to what we saw in the office
[2014/09/04 15:27]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Yes, it is very fast.
[2014/09/04 15:28]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me thumbs up
[2014/09/04 15:30]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The floor is wide open, if any of you have topics
[2014/09/04 15:30]  Gibson Firehawk: any word about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6925
[2014/09/04 15:31]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): We did find out about a second bug which is very similar to that, and may have the same cause:  BUG-7131
[2014/09/04 15:32]  Elisha Richez: hiya simon :)
[2014/09/04 15:32]  Kennylex Luckless: Maybe of tpoic, but will LL get reflective texture
[2014/09/04 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't see any news about the fix for that bug yet, though
[2014/09/04 15:33]  Kennylex Luckless: SL
[2014/09/04 15:33]  Lucia Nightfire: SL is catching up to the Simms, which have had reflectiosn for years
[2014/09/04 15:33]  Jenna Felton: i thought textures with max shiny are reflecting already if your graphic card is good enough
[2014/09/04 15:34]  Elisha Richez: only on water i thought
[2014/09/04 15:34]  Lucia Nightfire: Kenny is talkign about obj and agent refecletions
[2014/09/04 15:34]  Simon Linden: The short answer to that, Kenny, is no.  I don't know of any plans adding more graphics levels like that
[2014/09/04 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I see point light reflections on specular objects
[2014/09/04 15:35]  Kennylex Luckless: My GFX can not handle so much, but new things is always good
[2014/09/04 15:35]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But yeah, that's not the same
[2014/09/04 15:35]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Prim textures do an abbreviated environmental reflection. It reflects some sky and ground info taken from the enviro. AFAIK know that is about it for now.
[2014/09/04 15:36]  Kennylex Luckless: And we has to wish for many things to keep the developers busy.
[2014/09/04 15:36]  Jenna Felton: ok, i may be wrong then
[2014/09/04 15:36]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Geenz is working on adding better reflections.
[2014/09/04 15:38]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-2056 here's some recent work
[2014/09/04 15:38]  Kennylex Luckless: I saw reflective prims in Hippotropolis but no info about what viewer to use
[2014/09/04 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-2067  nice screenshots here
[2014/09/04 15:42]  Nal (nalates.urriah): they are impressive
[2014/09/04 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm not sure if there are any public builds for that, though; it looks like Whirly may have built the viewer herself when she tested it
[2014/09/04 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: any word on shineys, heh
[2014/09/04 15:45]  Sovereign Engineer: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/contrib-geenz_viewer-release/rev/293685/index.html
[2014/09/04 15:45]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): cool!
[2014/09/04 15:46]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Not really, Lucia.. we've been preoccupied with bugs this week
[2014/09/04 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: do you know if there is any work in the area of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6912 ?
[2014/09/04 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: not sure what goes on in ACME
[2014/09/04 15:47]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I know the team is aware of that use case, and also the related one,
[2014/09/04 15:48]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): about wanting to know if an agent is in an experience, independently of whether the experience is valid in the agent's location
[2014/09/04 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: its a shame experiences where never initially figured for Mainland as that project is have broken/complete without the checks to properly work there for all conditions
[2014/09/04 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: *half borken/incomplete
[2014/09/04 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: gah
[2014/09/04 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (which [https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlAgentInExperience llAgentInExperience()] doesn't currently provide - it only returns TRUE 'if the agent is in the experience and the experience can run in the current region')
[2014/09/04 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: general error 4 is returned with far too many conditions
[2014/09/04 15:49]  Simon Linden: The original design of experiences was about someone building on their region, and having more control like the Cornfield and the others we've done ... I realize that doesn't fit with mainland very well
[2014/09/04 15:51]  Margithe: Nothing fits mainland very well these days. Not gaming, not experience tools, not pathfinding, etc. There's more, but these are from the top of my head. mainland makes also for a crappy residental expirience. can we please do something?
[2014/09/04 15:52]  Simon Linden: You're talking to the coders and testers here, Margithe ... I'll pass along what you said, but the product people have heard it before.   What would you suggest?
[2014/09/04 15:53]  Margithe: I would suggest making an actual plan, where all these new conditions are taken into consideration.
[2014/09/04 15:53]  Margithe: So if mainland is going to stick around, have a plan, instead of leaving it as a grandfathered garbage dump.
[2014/09/04 15:54]  Margithe: it doesn't look good, it's not fun, and thus it doesn't make sense to just turn the blind eye to it.
[2014/09/04 15:56]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So.. maybe.. make an HoA for mainland sims?
[2014/09/04 15:56]  Margithe: Mainland would be good for all those no-banlines community places and projects open for all. Like boating, driving, no-boundry exploration. If that IS the point of mainland, policy and tech has to take it there. My question to you- what IS mainland, and what is it's purpose, right now?
[2014/09/04 15:56]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (I'm not sure if that term is understood outside the US)
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Sovereign Engineer: Home Owners Association?
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Sovereign Engineer: o.o
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Margithe: i don't know what HoA is, i'm sorry.
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, Home owners association
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's common in certain types of neighborhoods
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Sovereign Engineer: /me O We have an HOA just for the like 15 houses on my street where i live.
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): they tell you that you can't paint your house pink and such
[2014/09/04 15:57]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me is just throwing that out there; not really advocating for them
[2014/09/04 15:58]  Sovereign Engineer: (I'm talking irl.)
[2014/09/04 15:58]  Margithe: If it's not enforced on top level, nobody will care or bother. having a plot on mainland, i can tell you what i see around. Every abandoned plot is sooner or later grabbed by a landlord (and then abandoned by a landlord) , there is no sense of continuity, and banlines and security orbs make exploration futile.
[2014/09/04 15:59]  Margithe: So i wonder, what is the point of mainland, right now?
[2014/09/04 15:59]  Simon Linden: I agree with you, Margithe and I don't know what the solution is.   Mainland is tough because it exists as it is today ... because it was part of how SL grew
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Kennylex Luckless: Security ord should be seen as griefing.
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Simon Linden: I think we've come to learn that most landowners actually want privacy to build and enjoy their land
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Margithe: if there is no other point than " because it's there" then thats a pretty sorry reason for keeping it as it is.
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: most want ANY land at a cheap price
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Simon Linden: yet having a large, interesting space to explore is also a good thing .... if it can be built well, not by a totally random bunch of owners
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Jenna Felton: changing someting in mainland would mean chainging life for some residentsthat that live at the place you chang and are used to like how they live :)
[2014/09/04 16:00]  Margithe: it's been done with Zindra and nobody died.
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Simon Linden: Yes Jenna - that's why it's so hard to change
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: Mainland's purpose should really be to showcase the product and demo its capabilities and have public sandboxes and Linden content, not necessarily users living on it
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I suppose Linden Homes offer more continuity, if that's what you're after
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Gibson Firehawk: i like the stability of mainland for land owning without having to pay for an entire sim or have land rented from a private estate owner pulled out from under me if they close shop overnight etc
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Margithe: Agreed Lucia
[2014/09/04 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): That's true, Gibson
[2014/09/04 16:02]  Gibson Firehawk: or silly nitpicky covenants...mainlad really does have advantages
[2014/09/04 16:02]  Margithe: And the residents that would want to stay in the showcase mainland, would need to give a good reason to stay in it- leave it open and hospitable.
[2014/09/04 16:02]  Kennylex Luckless: I love the mainland chaos
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Margithe: The chaos is fine, but impeding travel? banlining?
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Lucia Nightfire: the only HoA restriction I see on Mainland is terraforming restricted
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Lucia Nightfire: in select regions
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Kennylex Luckless: Ban lines should be esyer to spot, yes
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and maturity, I suppose
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Kennylex Luckless: and security ord could be seen as grief
[2014/09/04 16:03]  Margithe: isn't there some place that has like double prim and a covenant? i forgot tyhe name
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, I hate to break things up now that the conversation's gotten so lively, but we're out of time for this week
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Margithe: opps , time
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Kennylex Luckless: Ban lines and avatar privacy could not be able to wotk togheter
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Elisha Richez: i don't like being returned home cuz of security orb on mainland while say flying a plane.
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, you're free to stay, but I have to get going
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Kennylex Luckless: Ban lines and privacy is the "Lets have sex in PG zone" setting
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/09/04 16:04]  Margithe: I think a plan for mainland would be benefitial for both you, and us. So it's not just " it's there. lets please forget it exists"
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, SImon.
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Kennylex Luckless: tc
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Gibson Firehawk: thanks Lindens
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Jenna Felton: ban lines could become obsolete when SL would learn to make not allowed residents invisible and inaffectable to the place they enter, so they can enter but they people in the parcell dont see them and are not get griefed by their scripts or anything. than you could wander freely around the sims
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Simon Linden: Thanks everyone -- see you next time
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Caleb.
[2014/09/04 16:05]  Margithe: Thanks for having us!