Doc Team/2008-08-01

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You: Hi Becky. Welcome back to Documentation Office Hours.
Becky Pippen: Hiya Jeremy, thanks. Happy Friday :-)
WidgetHUD v1.1: Becky Pippen has pinged you.
You: Indeed.
You: Hello, JELLOTAR. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
Jon Linden: har har
Becky Pippen: welcome back Jon
Jon Linden: good to be back!
Jon Linden: although somewhat hectic
You: Hello Arawn. Welcome back.
Becky Pippen: Hi Arawn
Arawn Spitteler: 2 already?
You: 2:01
Jon Linden: none of my timekeeping devices are in syn
Jon Linden: c
You: I almost feel like I'm quoting scripture or something.
Gellan Glenelg: hi
Jon Linden: SL and my cellphone say it's 2:01, my computer thinks it's 1:59, and my watch says 2:06
You: "Second Life 2:01"
Becky Pippen: lol
You: Psh. My watch thinks it's 5:04
Jon Linden: i'm just going to average all of these out
You: Hi Gellan. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
Gellan Glenelg: my pc says 22:03, SL: 2.03... not sure averaging those would be a good ide ;P
Jon Linden: heh
Jon Linden: so what should we discuss today? anybody have anything pressing?
Gellan Glenelg: I've not been to these OHs before - so not quite sure what to expecrt
Jon Linden: i think each one's different
Jon Linden: we use this one mostly to talk about your experiences with SL documentation (primarily the Knowledge Base) and ways in which it might be improved
Boukette Jayaram: hello
You: Hello Boukette. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
Gellan Glenelg: oh - one question I did have, that's probably your area...
Gellan Glenelg: the "submit a ticket to suggest a correct to KB"...
Boukette Jayaram: hello
Jon Linden: indeed
Gellan Glenelg: is that supposed to be premium members only?
Jon Linden: it shouldn't be -- just about anyone should be able to submit a KB Suggestion ticket
Gellan Glenelg: cos last time I looked, I was told "you can't submit that ticket tuype - you're basic
Gellan Glenelg: I'll try to find the reference
Jon Linden: really?
Gellan Glenelg: yeah - and I thought that wasn't good
Jon Linden: that's news to me; i'll take it up with our ticket flow admin
Gellan Glenelg: i'm not sure it was when i tried to actually submit ticket.. that MIGHT allow it
Gellan Glenelg: but was some message saying I wouldn't be able to
You: Hello Ellla. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
Arawn Spitteler: How do you submit a ticket?
Ellla McMahon: hello everyone :))
Arawn Spitteler: Hel-Lo Ell-lla
Ellla McMahon: hehehe
You: Arawn: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5100
Becky Pippen: hmmm I'm getting a browser error clicking the link to https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/ticketnewclassic.asp
Jeremy Linden is not familiar with that URL.
You: What is the expected result?
Gellan Glenelg: me too, becky
Jon Linden: it should take you to the ticket submission page
Gellan Glenelg: it's a link to "submit a ticket"
Gellan Glenelg: but gives There was an unexpected error.

An error has occurred with your request.

You may navigate away or click here to go back.
You: Huh. I guess I never tried to go there directly. I always go through the Support Portal front page.
Jon Linden: i think that happens when you're not logged into the support system
Gellan Glenelg: ahh
Frank183 Parx: hi
Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Frank
You: Ah. Jon is correct. That is the same reason why we can't use the cleaner version of direct KB links.
Jon Linden: frank, you appear to be stuck in a dancing animation
Frank183 Parx: uhh
Frank183 Parx: who i stop this?
Becky Pippen: World->Stop all animations
Frank183 Parx: ok?
Arawn Spitteler: s that been moved from Tools?
Jon Linden: it depends which version of the viewer you're using
You: Yes, Arawn. In the 1.20 viewer, the Tools menu is only visible when you're editing an object, or in Build mode.
Becky Pippen: oh I forgot about 1.19 :-)
Gellan Glenelg: yeah - moved from tools, cos tools is hidden on 1.20 unless you're in edit mode
Jon Linden: actually, this is a good place to discuss this issue
Jon Linden: i'm one of those obstinate people who refuses to download a new version of anything unless it's REQUIRED
Arawn Spitteler: WEar that rose, Stops All Animations has never worked.
Jon Linden: hence i'm still on 1.19
Jeremy Linden cuts in.
Arawn Spitteler: Tools should come back, despite Torley's fine excusations.
You: On the other hand, I like to stay updatd with the newest-and-greatest official release of any software, so I'll download any optional viewer.
Arawn Spitteler: Wear that rose, Frank
Jon Linden: heh
Jon Linden: how are we to account for these differences in user behavior from a documentation standpoint?
Frank183 Parx: ohh...my english is litle bad
Frank183 Parx: sorry
Jon Linden: should we preface every article with "this article is for version 1.19 of the viewer..."
Jon Linden: or simply keep every article up to date on the latest official viewer, and hope everyone follows along?
Arawn Spitteler: This was changed from this to that, with viewer...
You: Frank, try this: http://screencast.com/t/7wFgF3KZ
Gellan Glenelg: going back to my question.. here's the confusion: From https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5100 : "If you still think your article idea's a good one, you can submit a ticket for it, using Knowledge Base Suggestions as the ticket type"... but before when I try to submit a ticket I get shown https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5099 which includes "When you're logged in as a Basic account holder or Guest, you should only use the Special Questions - Basic account or Guest Login ticket type. Any other support ticket submitted by a Basic account or Guest login will be ignored."
Jon Linden: that information is still true
Jon Linden: KB Suggestions are a special case, though
Jon Linden: this is information that could probably go into that article
You: Hm. That doesn't really apply to KB suggestions... We make a choice not to ignore good information, even if it comes from a Basic account :-)
Gellan Glenelg: KB suggestiong is not a "special questions - basic account
Arawn Spitteler would like to see a DOC Project in Jira
Gellan Glenelg: so article 5099 should be amended to say "Special Questions - Basic account or Guest Login" or "Knowledge Base Suggestions" ?
You: Hmm.... perhaps there is a way we could be more clear on the ticket submission form.
You: Hello Ricken. Welcome back.
Ricken Flow: Hello all
Gellan Glenelg: ok - that celear now,. but I wonder how many other people want to help out, but feel they're not allwoed to
Jon Linden: gellan, probably just saying "Any other support ticket submitted by a Basic account or Guest login will be ignored, except for Knowledge Base Suggestions" would be clearer
Gellan Glenelg: yeah
Arawn Spitteler: It's a ritual warning that the ticket will be ignored, even though it goes through? Is it possible to make it a Special Question? Newbies are just the people to stumble across undocumented undocumentations.
Jon Linden: i can make that change now
Frank183 Parx: hi, translated by google, well, I already did what you said, did not work, but I will leave and enter again. Ja sofrento come with it for some time. you again.
Jon Linden: it might be possible to also make it a special question; i will consult the Ticketing Gods
Arawn Spitteler: Special Question would make more sense, than to ask newbies to parse too much grammar.
You: I agree with both. It helps to mention it in the KB article, and it helps to call out the special status of KB requests on the ticket submission form.
Jon Linden: possibly; we'll see if it means the creation of another ticket queue that needs watching over!
Arawn Spitteler: Welcome Back, Frank
Frank183 Parx: it's works now?
You: Jon-- wouldn't it just be a label change?
Jon Linden: you are no longer dancing, so yeah!
Becky Pippen: Yay Frank :-)
Arawn Spitteler: Yes, Logging of and back does stop your animations.
Arawn Spitteler: That was quite a dance.
Jon Linden: i like having KB Suggestions as their own item in the Ticket Type dropdown
Frank183 Parx: :)
Jon Linden: we could add it to the Special Questions choices, but it's unclear to me whether that would mean creating another queue for those
You: Right. We could relabel it to make it clear that anyone is welcome to send one in.
Frank183 Parx: interim gross
Jon Linden: oh, that
You: I'd have to ask Kate, but I'm pretty sure we *receive* tickets from Basic accounts... we just don't advertise KB suggestions correctly.
Jon Linden: we could do that instead, i suppose! what would we want to call it in order to make it clear anyone can submit one?
Frank183 Parx: thanks by help
Frank183 Parx: im going
Frank183 Parx: bye
Arawn Spitteler: He never did wear that flower
Jon Linden: we have always received KB Suggestions tickets from Basics, as far as I'm aware
You: Knowledge Base Suggestions - Basic or Premium account
Jon Linden: ahs o
Arawn Spitteler doesnb't know where to begin, submitting a texst run.
Jon Linden: where to begin doing what, arawn?
Arawn Spitteler: Submitting a ticket; I've never done it before.
Jon Linden: head to secondlife.com/support and click on the big button that says "Ticket Submission"
Jeremy Linden scribbles "How do I submit a ticket?" as a potential KB article title.
Gellan Glenelg: I do think on https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5099 , the "Click here to submit a ticket." link could be bigger and/or repeated at the bottom... it's easy to miss
You: 5099 doesn't appear to be a real article.
Jon Linden: it is, but it only appears for people who are Basics
You: ...
Jon Linden: i have it up here in the parature admin interface, heh
Gellan Glenelg: well, it's what gets displayed when basic member clicks submit from main page... so I guess it's a special one
Arawn Spitteler: Submit a Ticket - Confirmation

Thank you for submitting your issue to us. The tracking number for your new ticket is #4051-5096199. You should receive an email containing this information. You can track the status of your ticket in My Support History. If you have any questions, contact_us.
You: Arawn submits his first ticket. Hurray!
Arawn Spitteler: I didn't realize I could submit a ticket when the region was down; I'll have to tyry that often.
Jon Linden: i'm making that "Click here to submit a ticket" line big and bold now.
Jon Linden: and also at the bottom of the article
Gellan Glenelg: :))
Jon Linden: anybody else: questions, comments?
You: Hello Dnate. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours. Feel free to have a seat anywhere.
Gellan Glenelg: I'm sure there will be, now I know I can submit kb tickets :)
Arawn Spitteler: Where do we upgrade the amount we can convert from Linden$ to U$D?
You: Hmm... I'm sure we have an article about that somewhere.
You: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4528
Jon Linden: jeremy beat me to it
WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you.
Jeremy Linden mimes finishing a quickdraw.
Becky Pippen: Two weeks until Mono arrives on the main grid servers!
You: Huzzah!
Jeremy Linden can't wait.
Jon Linden: i have a couple of articles i'm getting ready that explain Mono for technical and non-technical people
Jon Linden: hopefully they will be of service!
Becky Pippen: we'll need to refer people to those often, I predict.
You: I'm actually not sure how many non-technical Residents will be affected, except maybe to notice improved performance (and a few hiccups during the adoption phase)
Becky Pippen: Some residents will like to blame every SL problem they have on Mono, and it will be good to have a KB article to help separate fact from fiction.
Dnate Mars: The hiccups are the scare part...
You: Heh. Such is true for any new feature, I imagine. Havok 4 being no exception.
Arawn Spitteler: When Windlight was released, it was released togeather with Camera Transition Time, and Camera Rotation, and these looked to be part of Windlight
You: Scripting calls
You: er, scripting calls?
Dnate Mars: True, but with Mono you can't have a partial grid roll out, I wonder how that will be handled
Arawn Spitteler: Windlight Development thought they weren't part of Windlight, so people were walking about stoned or nausious.
Arawn Spitteler: You can do a partial grid rollout, and not tell anybody.
Arawn Spitteler: They'll want to know the soft ware doesn't bork the busier sims, before people have the viewers to use it.
Dnate Mars: True, sim roll out will have to be done before any viewer roll out
Dnate Mars: but my understanding was the next RC was coming really soon
Arawn Spitteler: They'll recruit some brave adopter program
You: Dnate, with Heterogeneous Grid, we actually can do a partial rollout. We have the ability to roll out new features to volunteer early adopters, then a small portion of the world, and then the whole world. If you're hooked into the right channels (I'm honestly not sure which... does Babbage do mono office hours?) you'll probably hear the news as it happens.
Gellan Glenelg: I don't see a problem of a partial rollout... the mono functions will just be greyed out in non-mono-enabled regions, just as they are on aditi
Becky Pippen: yesterday Vektor said the sim code will be phased in over the whole main grid during a three-day period, second week of Aug
Arawn Spitteler: I think Bbbage will be on Beta Grid at three
You: About the Heterogenous Grid: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4560
Dnate Mars: Yes, but if scripts all of a sudden work in one sim but not another, it will create a big headache for content creators
Arawn Spitteler: Scripts had better not be borked, by Mono
Jon Linden: this would imply that the LSL engine is being turned off, which it isn't, as far as I know
Becky Pippen: No existing scripts will stop working as a result of the phase-in
Gellan Glenelg: there are no plans to turn it off
Dnate Mars: Well, I just worry about a 1.23 repeat
Arawn Spitteler: So do the people in charge of repeating it
You: Indeed, Dnate. We take great care to break as little as possible when we introduce new features. I'm sure the Mono team has a game plan ready to make the rollout as seamless as possible.
Dnate Mars: I am sure they have :)
You: However, Mono itself is not the Doc team's specialty... I'm afraid for me detailed information you'll have to ask them :-)
Dnate Mars: Personally, I can't wait for it
You: Er, for MORE detailed information.
Arawn Spitteler: Documentation of Mono, as never happened with LSL, wouldn't be a bad idea
You: Arawn, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal
Dnate Mars: But I must say, you have done a great job getting the KB up to date. I remember meeting you the first week you were here, what a mess it was :P
Jon Linden: we're still workin' on it, too ^__^
Jon Linden: thanks!
You: Oy. Yes, we're finally getting close to a mirror-shine with all the polishing we've been dong.
You: er, doing.
You: Must be Friday.
Jon Linden: don't feel bad, jeremy, i think i'm still fighting food coma from lunch today
WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you.
Arawn Spitteler: They stick the MSG in the PAsta, so you wouldn't recognize the CRS?
Jon Linden: no pasta today
Jon Linden: if nobody's got anything else, we could call it an early afternoon/evening and see you all next week
Becky Pippen: yay weekend!
Jon Linden: or as many of you who would like to come back, heh
Dnate Mars: :D
Jon Linden: i thank you all for coming, and seriously, do feel free to stop by next time!
Becky Pippen: Thanks guys.
You: Happy Friday, everyone. Thanks for coming and sharing your thoughts with us.
Jon Linden: have a good weekend!
Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
Becky Pippen: take care all
Gellan Glenelg: thx J&J.