Doc Team/2010-10-06

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[13:02] Daniel Voyager: hey
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: Hi Daniel. Welcome!
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: /me looks around.
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: Not too many here this week...
[13:02] Daniel Voyager: :(
[13:03] Daniel Voyager: loads last week were here
[13:03] Eddi Decosta: hey Jeremy ã‹¡
[13:03] Eddi Decosta has pinged you.
[13:03] Daniel Voyager: hey Eddi
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: Hi Eddi.
[13:03] Eddi Decosta: hi Dan how are you?
[13:04] Daniel Voyager: I'm good thanks.
[13:04] Eddi Decosta: well, im little confused with the ToS update to be honest ..
[13:04] Daniel Voyager: Busy at times. :p
[13:05] Jeremy Linden: /me isn't up to speed on the new TOS yet.
[13:05] Daniel Voyager: http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php
[13:06] Daniel Voyager: alot to read
[13:06] Eddi Decosta: well, the use of 2,x are mendatory or not realy?
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Where does it say that?
[13:07] Eddi Decosta: i dont know i red that on some groups ..
[13:07] Eddi Decosta: and this thing make me confused ..
[13:07] Cummere Mayo: hello i apologize for being late and will move soon as something rezes ><
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: Hi Cummere
[13:07] Eddi Decosta: cause i use imprudence 1.4 , for myslef ã‹¡
[13:07] Eddi Decosta: hi Cummere long time no see :p
[13:08] Cummere Mayo: so you the last man standing jeremy?
[13:08] Cummere Mayo has pinged you.
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: We have the Third-party Viewer list for a reason... if Imprudence is on there, I imagine it's definitely allowed.
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Jon is out today, Cummere.
[13:09] Eddi Decosta: Jeremy yeah , i think so but the thing its the migration of some version 1.4 at the 2,x ..
[13:09] Eddi Decosta has pinged you.
[13:10] Eddi Decosta: i prefers to wait some new dev on snowstrom to switch with an 2.x ã‹¡
[13:10] Cummere Mayo: /me is confused. "soemthign worng iwth having imprudence on the tvp list?
[13:10] Eddi Decosta: Cummere, yeah the imprudence is on the tvp ã‹¡
[13:11] Cummere Mayo: and?
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: There's nothing wrong with it being there. I'm trying to figure out why Eddi is troubled.
[13:11] Eddi Decosta: Jerremy , can you do a tralsnate a tvp polici in french? ^^
[13:11] Cummere Mayo: so far i havent seen any reason personaly it shouldnt be?
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Maybe, Eddi. I think Eli Linden would handle that.
[13:12] Cummere Mayo: far as i know the guy that spun imprudence off from emerald took most of the questionable stuff out.
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: I haven't seen any reasons either, Cummere. Also, are you thinking of Phoenix?
[13:12] Eddi Decosta: oh http://imprudenceviewer.org/2010/10/06/bug-with-secondlife-tos-acceptation/
[13:12] Eddi Decosta: ther is mentioned by codie ã‹¡
[13:12] Cummere Mayo: phoenix is also an emerald spinoff
[13:13] Cummere Mayo: imprudence came BEFORE emerald died.
[13:13] Cummere Mayo: phoenix affter
[13:13] Cummere Mayo: much overlap
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: /me doesn't know a lot about third party viewers.
[13:13] Cummere Mayo: soft i think would be best to talk to?
[13:13] Eddi Decosta: you can have some usual function like reload l$ balance in imprudence ã‹¡
[13:14] Cummere Mayo: eddi i dont think that bug would keep them from being on the tvp ^^
[13:15] Cummere Mayo: lol didnt LL have that bug once 3 years ago?
[13:16] Eddi Decosta: oh Jer, i send you a textures
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: /me looks.
[13:16] Cummere Mayo: jeremy when were done discussing tvps i have a question
[13:16] Cummere Mayo has pinged you.
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: Display Names in Imprudence, Eddi?
[13:17] Eddi Decosta: just on xml part for now ã‹¡
[13:17] Eddi Decosta: of my long work ã‹¡
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Cool.
[13:17] Eddi Decosta: but not active yet in official source ã‹¡
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Cummere, what is your question?
[13:18] Cummere Mayo: does the removal of everything regarding decency standards for profiles from the cs, tos, and wiki mean explicit and offensive profiles are now allowed?
[13:19] Cummere Mayo: such as... picttures of a woman explicitly "spreading" herself (or her avi doing the same)
[13:19] Cummere Mayo: or slogans like "its not rape if you yell surprise first"?
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: Offensive content is still offensive content. Please send abuse reports as appropriate.
[13:20] Cummere Mayo: people are getting off because theres no longer clear guidelines for what can be in a profile
[13:20] Eddi Decosta: and if i see a user; with a name like LickMy Cerise in pg zone what i do? lol
[13:21] Cummere Mayo: and now that we have minors on the grid
[13:21] Cummere Mayo: i dunno
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Abuse report, Eddi.
[13:21] Eddi Decosta: ok thanks ã‹¡
[13:21] Cummere Mayo: im even kinda thinking about asking to change some of my avi names.
[13:21] Cummere Mayo: it was okay when adults where here. but im not so sure orgasmic or cummere are acceptable now that we have teens
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: No minors here yet, Cummere. Also, why do you say we actively removed guidelines for what is appropriate in a profile?
[13:22] Cummere Mayo: because you used to explicitly state no nudity in porfiles on the cs
[13:22] Cummere Mayo: as well as no sexual content, and no overly offensive cotnent.
[13:23] Cummere Mayo: thats been changed too (one moment while i find the only page with still a mention of it)
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Cummere, I think section 5 of the CS may cover your concerns.
[13:24] Cummere Mayo: well i cant find it but it was a wiki page that basicallyy said no overly explicit sexual text was allowed
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: etc.
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: Second Life is an adult community, but "Adult" content, activity and communication are not permitted on the Second Life "mainland."
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Chat lag. That's backward.
[13:25] Eddi Decosta: to be honest Jermy i hope a french ToS and CS for soon ã‹¡
[13:25] Cummere Mayo: i had a storeowner ban me for aring someone with a picture of hers and one of her avi's in matching spread eagle poses
[13:25] Cummere Mayo: and i was told because she was on an dult sim her profile was okay
[13:26] Eddi Decosta: its funy cause the viewer and some other help are translated in deferent lang but the tos and Cs are allways in english ã‹¡
[13:26] Cummere Mayo: unless im mistaken the idea of tagging profiles adult was never implemented
[13:26] Eddi Decosta: Hi Aarg ã‹¡
[13:26] Jeremy Linden: Eddi, a lot of the online help is translated by volunteers from the SL community. We don't feel comfortable allowing volunteers to translate the ToS :-)
[13:27] Cummere Mayo: i even get differant answers on whats allowed from differant ontynes/scouts/lindens
[13:27] Cummere Mayo: can we please get an explicit written set of standards for profiles again please?
[13:27] Eddi Decosta: yeah i know but fot that i think you need a juridic translator, cause some time i see some plaing with the tos word ã‹¡
[13:27] Eddi Decosta: playing*
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: Cummere, as a rule, we don't lay out specifics about what is "allowed" under specific policies. It allows us to make judgments on a case-by-case basis and makes it harder for people to exploit loopholes based on earlier rulings.
[13:27] Eddi Decosta: for& lol
[13:28] Cummere Mayo: ture but even so at least a general keep your profile pg rule?
[13:29] Cummere Mayo: there was an explicit no nudity in profiles rule until sometime in 2009 i think
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: I don't have the ability to make new policy, Cummere, but I can ask and see what happened.
[13:30] Cummere Mayo: that would be awesome
[13:30] Cummere Mayo: and please point out that
[13:30] Eddi Decosta: Hi Nanh ã‹¡
[13:30] Cummere Mayo: if kids came across imagess like what i saw, and a teen was able to stumble across that, LL officially and legally just exposed a child to porn
[13:30] Nahn Violet: salut Eddi
[13:31] Nahn Violet: Hi everyone
[13:31] Eddi Decosta: Jer, nanh its a great friend on sl ã‹¡
[13:31] Aargle Zymurgy: only if LL makes it their business to censor content.
[13:31] Aargle Zymurgy: that issue bit Prodigy back in the day
[13:31] Cummere Mayo: even if they dont aargle
[13:32] Nahn Violet: nice to meet you uys
[13:32] Nahn Violet: guys *
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: Hi Nahn. Welcome to Documentation office hours.
[13:32] Nahn Violet: Documentation office !
[13:32] Aargle Zymurgy: not necessarily, Cummere. phone companies and ISPs aren't liable for the content that moves through their services even if illegal or libelous or whatever.
[13:33] Cummere Mayo: no but games are...
[13:33] Eddi Decosta: hi hi Bronson ã‹¡
[13:33] Cummere Mayo: and legally
[13:33] Cummere Mayo: sl fits the definition of a game
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: wha? no its a life style... err umm... game
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: yeah thats it a lifestyle game
[13:34] Aargle Zymurgy: still, it's a fuzzy bit of law. and if it's nude avatars, is it really porn? nudity?
[13:34] Cummere Mayo: /me points to black isle (now out of business cause of this issue), Atari, and Bioware that that
[13:34] Cummere Mayo: and yes naked toons still count as pornography
[13:34] Aargle Zymurgy: and tinies? :-)
[13:35] Aargle Zymurgy: my alt just runs around in only a necktie :-)
[13:35] Cummere Mayo: if they show their bits yes
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: well if hanna barbara suddenly added naughty bits then it would be porn
[13:35] Aargle Zymurgy: I think technically tinies don't have "naughty bits." :-)
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: funy ass porn but porn none the less
[13:35] Cummere Mayo: theres a few >.>
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: but national geographic is not porn
[13:37] Aargle Zymurgy: fwiw, nudity isn't necessarily porn or sexuality. as Bronson points out, despite all the nudity in Nat. Geo, it's not porn
[13:37] Cummere Mayo: but black isle got in trouble a while back because they dint have an age screeening system, and many of the multiplayer worlds using the neverwinter nights platform had explicit bits on the nude toons
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: same thing with statues in art galleries
[13:38] Cummere Mayo: true but when theres a presence or potential presence of sexual content (like animations, gestures, etc) it becomes such
[13:39] Aargle Zymurgy: I presume it's going to get awkward when the 16-17 y/o crowd is let in.
[13:39] Cummere Mayo: and a shot of enen a avatar's gaping dripping snatch? thats unlikely to pass off as "art"
[13:39] Aargle Zymurgy: not that they aren't here already
[13:39] Aargle Zymurgy: hm... or even verbal descriptions? :-D
[13:39] Jeremy Linden: /me had to report a teen who outed himself here last week.
[13:39] Eddi Decosta: wb Dan! ã‹¡
[13:39] Daniel Voyager: ty
[13:40] Cummere Mayo: what i found intresting is its easier to repot a teen on adult grid then it was to get ll to do anything about adults on the teen one
[13:41] Aargle Zymurgy: I had my teens on the teen grid... they quickly got bored there.
[13:41] Cummere Mayo: my niece reported 22 differant adults and only one ever got banned. she got told repeatedly "theres no adults here" one of them was her 62 year old neigbor
[13:42] Cummere Mayo: (who is now in jail btw)
[13:42] Aargle Zymurgy: geez
[13:43] Aargle Zymurgy: what I'm wondering about is, with the wagering on skill-based games, will that be allowed by the 16-17 y/o set
[13:43] Aargle Zymurgy: in some places, you've got to be 18 to participate in sweepstakes or the like.
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: sweepstakes are not skill-based, correct?
[13:44] Eddi Decosta: Aarg you know in some place you can have a car if you have 16 years old ã‹¡
[13:44] Cummere Mayo: some fo them are
[13:44] Aargle Zymurgy: those are not skill based... I just mean R/L stuff
[13:44] Aargle Zymurgy: I've seen contests you can join, but minimum age is 18 to pay to participate and win.
[13:44] Bronson Blackadder: and I dont care what anyone says.. zyngo is gambling
[13:45] Cummere Mayo: zyngo would definately have to be out.
[13:45] Aargle Zymurgy: Bronson, that was never the issue. the issue is wagering on games of pure chance.
[13:45] Cummere Mayo: even bingo is 18+ in nearly all states
[13:45] Cummere Mayo: and bingo is arguablly skill based
[13:46] Aargle Zymurgy: people ask me about poker and blackjack... games that DO take skill. but the law and the TOS rules are that those are simply not allowed by their mechanism. they are specifically singled out.
[13:47] Bronson Blackadder: but I doubt teens will be out looking for scratch tickets or gambling halls, they will be trying to find ways to get to zindra or other adult sims
[13:47] Aargle Zymurgy: and when people ask me about game design, my general advice is: if you can lose on purpose, you've probably done it right. try to deliberately lose on roulette. you can't. nor can you deliberately try to win. or even improve the ability to win. it's a game of pure chance, and a no-no around here.
[13:47] Aargle Zymurgy: LOL... yeah, Bronson, you're correct.
[13:48] Cummere Mayo: yeah
[13:48] Cummere Mayo: they arleady do
[13:48] Aargle Zymurgy: my main interest is finding out if I need to do some scripting work.
[13:48] Cummere Mayo: my friend murron has had to ban (and gave up reporting
[13:48] Cummere Mayo: lots of kids
[13:49] Cummere Mayo: her store is on adult lands
[13:49] Cummere Mayo: kids get thier parents dl and a cc and verify
[13:49] Cummere Mayo: at least as it stands now we have SOME protections
[13:49] Cummere Mayo: we wont have any when the grids merge
[13:50] Cummere Mayo: look waht happened to those two guys in florida and that 14 year old girl whose myspace account said she was 19?
[13:51] Anastasio Colter: what's going on
[13:51] Aargle Zymurgy: I heard someone mention that, but I couldn't find any news stories about that.
[13:51] Cummere Mayo: google it
[13:51] Aargle Zymurgy: I did
[13:52] Cummere Mayo: it was also linked int he first blog notice about it
[13:52] Aargle Zymurgy: what little I knew turned up way too much information unrelated
[13:53] Jeremy Linden: Hi Anastasio. This is documentation office hours, but it looks like we're currently discussing possible results of moving 16 and 17 year olds to the main grid.
[13:53] Anastasio Colter: oh sorry i'm new at this so I just teleported here randomly
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: Cummere, I just got a response on your question about profiles. It turns out they're covered in section 8 of the TOS. Since profiles are viewable by everyone, they are considered "General", and must follow those rules.
[13:55] Jeremy Linden: No worries, Anastasio. This meeting is open to everyone.
[13:55] Cummere Mayo: http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html
[13:55] Eddi Decosta: Jeremy , honestly im worried by the french resident, on that sbuject cause i have some comment of some french griefers, all the time i CAN'T think if the french griefer have less of 18 ..
[13:55] Eddi Decosta has pinged you.
[13:55] Eddi Decosta: geezzz ..
[13:55] Cummere Mayo: jeremy any chance you can get that more explicitly doccumented? both within the community and within LL itself?
[13:55] Cummere Mayo has pinged you.
[13:56] Cummere Mayo: also may i c/p that answer so i can deliver it to all those that say "i checked with LL my profile is fine?"
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: If your profile and avatar name meets the guidelines for General content, it should be fine.
[13:57] Cummere Mayo: jeremy would the name orgasmic meet that?
[13:57] Cummere Mayo has pinged you.
[13:57] Cummere Mayo: if not i have two avis i will need remnamed
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: It's not my call, Cummere. Sorry.
[13:57] Cummere Mayo: who should i ask?
[13:58] Aargle Zymurgy: LOL... I've heard of chocolate desserts described as "orgasmic"
[13:58] Cummere Mayo: /me hopes cummere is okay
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: I would suggest filing a support ticket about the issue.
[13:59] Cummere Mayo: anyways can i quote you to others about profiles must adhere to section 8?
[13:59] Bronson Blackadder: cummere sounds like an exotic dessert
[13:59] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: I wouldn't quote me directly, but I think section 8 of the ToS is the most applicable to adult content in profiles.
[14:00] Cummere Mayo: bronson cummere is a carry over from an explicit nwn server avatar i had. cummere was the name she chose for herself after always being told come here or cum here
[14:01] Cummere Mayo: so yeah its kinda in the grey zone
[14:01] Bronson Blackadder: figured so
[14:01] Bronson Blackadder: I been thinking all this time taht it sounds lime come airee
[14:01] Bronson Blackadder: but thats just how my brain rolls
[14:02] Bronson Blackadder: like
[14:02] Bronson Blackadder: not lime
[14:02] Aargle Zymurgy: sounds like it might make for a good sandwich spread: "Now, presenting Cummere Mayo!"
[14:02] Cummere Mayo: please dont give away these alts cuase they are my hiding alts... but orgasmic rainfall and orgasmic faith i think fall too far in the grey
[14:02] Aargle Zymurgy: pfft... those sound pretty tame to me.
[14:02] Bronson Blackadder: Cummere brand Mayo
[14:03] Bronson Blackadder: /me gets online and see's if he can find it
[14:03] Jeremy Linden: Ok guys, time for me to go. Thanks for coming, everyone.
[14:03] Aargle Zymurgy: I mean, sure, a few people will get some juvenile giggle over those, but it's hardly obscene
[14:03] Cummere Mayo: meh im trying to get cummere mayo trademarked so no one can use it as a display name

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