Doc Team/2010-12-01

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[13:00] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Drats, my three year old noob just logged off.
[13:00] Aargle Zymurgy: hey Jeremy
[13:00] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:00] Jeremy Linden: Eh?
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: tada.wav!
[13:01] Aargle Zymurgy: MIYA HEEEE MIYA HOOOOO MIYA HAWWW MIYA HA HAAAA!
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Heh.
[13:01] Aargle Zymurgy: oops... gotta run already. fun with customers.
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming!
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: So, what's new with everyone this week?
[13:02] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me's upset with V2, having discovered it doesn't accept nearby local lights
[13:02] me wakes up. "Hi Jeremy, Arawn"
[13:02] Qie Niangao has pinged you.
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: Arawn, have you tried enabling Deferred Rendering?
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: (disclaimer: it may crash SL for you)
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: Hi Simon. Long time, no see.
[13:03] Simon Kline: Hi Jeremy!! Indeed! :D
[13:03] Simon Kline has pinged you.
[13:03] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): What's Deferred Rendering do?
[13:03] Simon Kline: i'm normally teaching scripting at this time.. but change the time till 12pm heh
[13:04] people keep saying that, but I don't seem to have that problem. (Oh, and yeah, deferred rendering is fantastic!)
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: Among other things, it allows many more local lights. It probably does some other good rendering things, too, and it doesn't seem to hurt framerate much.
[13:04] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): More local lights? How about Any?
[13:05] Opensource has a fun video of projected textures that he tweeted today, if I can find it again
[13:05] Jeremy Linden: Simon, that's cool! It's great that there are good resources out there for teaching and learning LSL.
[13:05]
[13:06] speaking of the devil! ;)
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: I'm tempted to make a disco ball out of projectors...
[13:06]
[13:06] was just hyping your video of projected texture lighting
[13:06] all that stuff needs wiki docs. :o
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: Hello! Welcome to Documentation Office Hours, everyone.
[13:07] Simon Kline: hi opensource!
[13:07]
[13:07] Arletta Martian: hi again simon
[13:08] we should use them more. it will happen when more people will use viewers that support that. also, better video cards (sigh)
[13:08] Simon Kline: Hi Arletta! long time no see lolol
[13:08] Arletta Martian: giggles
[13:08] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): What are projections?
[13:08] a tip for some extra fun: pass the projected textures through an animated texture of bitmasked alpha.
[13:08] ooww sounds fun
[13:08]
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: Yes, I sometimes wonder how content creators will deal with the many different rendering features.
[13:09] Simon Kline: haha or find time to experiment with them all
[13:09] Arletta Martian: what kind of content creator? technically im one of em
[13:09] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Ever see Vroum Short's work? Utterly dependant on the Alpha Bug
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Any and all, Arletta. Projectors are one example... they look really cool, but you can't see them without deferred rendering (a debug setting) enabled.
[13:10] and most video cards dont support that
[13:10] is there an agenda for this meeting?
[13:10] If the browser-based solution used cloud rendering... maybe get some uniformity back
[13:11] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me has a chipset: is deferred rendering on Snowglobe, or would I have to use V2?
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Agenda? Not usually. I keep it as an open forum for discussion, with the caveat that my specialty is the Second Life online help resources.
[13:11] snowglobe is ok for that
[13:11] Simon Kline: there's a pic of projectors in use here : http://nalates.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/kirsten-viewer-projectors-%E2%80%93-how-to/
[13:12] s a great blog about SL viewers
[13:12] awesome work of tracking new releases, explaining features
[13:12] both official and third-party viewers
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: I've been running with deferred rendering enabled for a few weeks now. It makes some people with facelights into supernovas :-P
[13:12] me nods :D
[13:12] Simon Kline: hehe indeed!! there's some vids further down the page too
[13:13] Simon Kline: haha jeremy!
[13:13] Simon Kline has pinged you.
[13:13] but I run with attached lights turned off, even without deferred rendering
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: I went out and got myself a Facelight 3000 just to fit in.
[13:13] t almost read the WANTED sign for that same reason
[13:13] i have def.rend. enabled now
[13:14] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Dynamic Shadows?
[13:14] s one disadvantage of having essentially infinite local lights: can't just stack up six black-emitters and mute the neighbor's annoying lighting
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: Dynamic Shadows are a feature that you can enable if you have deferred rendering enabled.
[13:14] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): How do I enable deferrred rendering in Snowglobe?
[13:14] s called Framebuffer Objects, in Develop menu. Plus, other specific shadow options below that one
[13:15] x or 2.x ?
[13:15] Arletta Martian: do you have ANY idea how many residents of sl are walking around with less than perfect top of the line video cards and yet manage to enjoy themselves inside sl nevertheless and be among your customer base????
[13:15] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Snowglobe 1.3.2 (3219) Feb 27 2010 14:30:24 (Snowglobe Release)
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: Yes, Arletta. That's why I wonder about how content creators will deal with features like this.
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Should they design for everyone, or should they go all-out but only for the few who have the best hardware?
[13:17] Arletta Martian: ive been in here for two years and im a so called content creator yet i have NEVER had a good video card. and when i tell people about my video card a huge number of other people tell me that theirs isnt very good either.
[13:17] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): I think the linden standard,, is to design for whatever systems the few in QA have got
[13:17] capable graphics environments (tablets, mobile devices) could get all the rendering eye-candy they want, if it were delivered to them pre-rendered by the cloud. Essentially "rent" a timeshared GPU.
[13:18] Advanced menu -> Debug Settings, type in RenderUseFBO and set it to true, then type in RenderDeferred again and set it to true
[13:18] ignore that 'again' )
[13:18] Jeremy Linden: Qie, have you heard about Project Skylight?
[13:18] m talking about that... and the Gaikai experiment is cloud-renderred...
[13:18] Jeremy Linden: /me nods.
[13:19] I dunno if all the options on the table are using that approach, though.
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: I don't claim to be a developer or a strategist, so I can't really speculate much on what we *could* be doing.
[13:20] Jeremy Linden: Hello shimri. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Feel free to right-click a couch and have a seat!
[13:21] some former Linden is doing something with IBM's Unity-based viewer, calling it "Canvas" (unfortunate choice of name)... and another is doing something with WebGL (not an SL viewer, though; a proto virtual world)
[13:22] Jeremy Linden: Yes, I saw a few articles in New World Notes about those.
[13:22] s where I read about them, too, I think.
[13:22] d everybody go?
[13:22] Jeremy Linden: It'll be interesting to see where those go. I think there has been some demand for a web-based Viewer for a long time.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: !
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Maybe I was not the Linden they were looking for :-)
[13:23] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Web Based?
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: SL viewer on a web page, Arawn.
[13:24] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): SL in a frame?
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: Essentially, yes.
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: As I understand it, there are a few possible ways to accomplish it. I don't really know which is the best.
[13:26] Jeremy Linden: /me racks his brain for new discussion topics.
[13:26] Jeremy Linden: er, wracks, I suppose
[13:26] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Have a CGI serve as the viewer, while the IPhone just watches the display/
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: Something like that, I think. Gaikai, the technology Linden Lab is using for Project Skylight, runs and renders the viewer on a server farm so you basically use SL through a video feed.
[13:28] me is distracted, trying to track down an annoying sound source from across the river
[13:28] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Like watching SL through a skylight?
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: Haha. Maybe, but less creepy.
[13:29] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Has anyone done a Rear Window, for the Hacker Generation?
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: I do not hear it, Qie. What does it sound like?
[13:29] it sounds like a baby crying... kinda
[13:30] s coming from an anvil-shaped thing in the sky
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Strange....
[13:30] but I can't figure out why it isn't getting auto-returned... unless it's self-replicating
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Oh, there it is.
[13:30] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Pay no attention to the sound of a baby crying, it's just an on-going infanticide in Rwanda, part of our country's ZPG programs
[13:30]
[13:31]
[13:31]
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: Now it's been manually returned.
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: It looks like it may have been a joke object that became non-physical somehow.
[13:31]
[13:32] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): I forget the story, but yes, someone hacks in, and can't hack out
[13:32] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Think it might have been a ghost Prim?
[13:35] Jeremy Linden: You mean it wouldn't be someone accidentally monitoring internet communication and being unable to act upon some questionable information they acquire?
[13:36] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Someone who doesn't want to hurt them, but is morally obliged to do so anyways
[13:37] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Forbidden Planet was just The Tempest, wasn't it?
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: /me does not know
[13:37] Julian Assange should have some role in this plot, I think. ;)
[13:38] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Is Julian of Wikileaks?
[13:38]
[13:39] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): The guy who forgot that, each person who holds a unique position in each government, is also an individual
[13:40] Jeremy Linden: Heh. This could probably be a screenplay :-P
[13:40] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Mixed World Screenplay, and summer blockbuster
[13:40] Second Life: (loveusyou) is now known as Kimberly Hampton.
[13:41] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Maybe the hero could be entirely unseen, so he wouldn't look so much like a geek
[13:41] Jeremy Linden: There was a segment at SLCC this year about mixed reality theatre performances.
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: They used various technologies to overlay real life onto SL. It was interesting.
[13:43] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me wonders if Toons could be animated in, for a tri-world tournament
[13:43] Jeremy Linden: Good luck getting them all to interact with each other !
[13:44] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Flash v Road Runner, in Second LAg
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: Region crossings, ouch.
[13:44] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Some early movie hack did Alice in Cartoon Land
[13:45] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Road Runner climbs some rocks, and turns them phantom, so Coyote runs right through, into to a four way region crossing
[13:46] Jeremy Linden: Heh. And his "whoops" sign is probably a scripted attachment.
[13:46] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Group Title
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: Anyhow, does anyone have documentation concerns for me, today? We're in kind of a transitional period, so I haven't had much new to report to you guys from my end.
[13:49] Nothing specific Jeremy. Sure appreciate your taking the time to meet with us.
[13:49] Qie Niangao has pinged you.
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: No problem! I think it's important for me to keep an open communication line with the SL community. It helps keep me honest about what you guys want and need, and how you're feeling about recent events.
[13:51]
[13:51] Adamburp Adamczyk: it's me!
[13:51] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): All we need now, is Road Runner
[13:51] Adamburp Adamczyk: albeit 51 minutes late
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: No worries! Have you got any fun documentation stories or concerns this week?
[13:52] Adamburp Adamczyk: nah
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Or, barringthat, fun stories or concerns that are not documentation related?
[13:53] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): I just got someone back in world, after she gave up trying to camp her way to success
[13:53] Adamburp Adamczyk: i have soem concerns, but you SURE you wanna ghear them?
[13:53] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): They should be hurried into the hour's transcript
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: Haha. If they're SL-related, sure.
[13:55] Adamburp Adamczyk: the ONLY bug bearer i have atm, and as much as i stick up/defend you guys to the critics, is the time taken to address oyur support tickets atm
[13:55] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Oh, is anybody hiring for Support?
[13:55] Adamburp Adamczyk: our*
[13:56] Jeremy Linden: We're bringing a new third-party support team in to help us out. As I understand it, they're coming online and going through SL training essentially as we speak.
[13:56] Adamburp Adamczyk: is that ciscosystems?
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: if i may ask?
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure I can really comment yet. I'm not sure I should have even said as much as I have :-)
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: well, we knew you were dumping the ontynes
[13:57] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:57] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me imagines Mentors being replaced by Cisco Kids
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: Flash! Aaaaaaa! Saviour of the universe!
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: geddinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: ontynes are gone
[13:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: sorry
[13:58] Adamburp Adamczyk: {{{ahem}}}
[13:58]
[13:58] Adamburp Adamczyk: i hated them with a passion - i'd NEVER raised a complaint in sl until i dealt with thsoe muppets
[13:59] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): /me objects to the characterisation of Muppets, as resembling Ontyne
[13:59] Adamburp Adamczyk: but, they're geordies, same area as my ex-wife, generally lovely people
[13:59] Jeremy Linden: I suspect the new folks will be better. Let's say I already know some of them. :-)
[13:59] Adamburp Adamczyk: but severyl lacking knowledge
[13:59] Adamburp Adamczyk: jez, if i read you right, anmd i hope i do, then *maybe* i'll know some of them too :))
[14:00] Adamburp Adamczyk: i miss joppa :(
[14:01] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Former Mentors?
[14:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: my word, he did his best to out prank me
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Get to the Joppa!
[14:01] Second Life: (noussa) is now known as noussa.
[14:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: i once pushed him across 2 sims
[14:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: while he was a f k
[14:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: took me over an hour
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Haha.
[14:02] Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler): Wanna try that with CG?
[14:02] Adamburp Adamczyk: pushed as in shoving, NOT push scripts
[14:02] Jeremy Linden: Yep. The real way!
[14:02] was gonna say: you need a better gun. :p
[14:02] Second Life: noussa (noussa) is now known as amélie.
[14:02] Jeremy Linden: I gotta cut here for the transcript.

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