Mesh/Archive/2011-07-18

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Agenda

  1. Experiment (physics weight) indicates that physics shape type is now silently switched to Convex Hull when any object dimension is less than 0.5m. Can you confirm this and/or provide more information on this? [Drongle McMahon]
  2. Is there or will there be a limit on how far shadows will be projected down to the ground apart from setting View Distance to minimum. eg: Runitai's sim wide mesh landscape/road on MSB21 at 200m AGL casts shadows over entire sims. Will there be a fixed limit on projection of shadows onto the ground on the mainland to stop skyboxes showing up and blocking the sun/moon but allowing greater horizontal visibility? [Chodai Yoshikawa] (OK not strictly mesh but as we are using next generation sims/viewers this is going to be the norm?)
  3. Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
  4. Why is it that the default name of the object name of uploaded mesh was changed into "mesh model" from the geometry name of the Collada file? [Yuzuru Jewell]
  5. Is it correct that any sculpt added into a linkset containing mesh will be accounted as mesh and no longer as a single sculpt prim? [Eleanora Newell]
  6. Are we there yet? Grins... [Vivienne Daguerre].

Meeting Notes

Transcript for Monday July 18, 2011

[12:03] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Wolfpup doing his best impression of a HAL9000 computer 'Hello Dave'
[12:04] Tammy Nowotny my voixe just crashed
[12:04] Rusalka Writer Try wearing one of the new avis— the Ferrari, the Volkswagen— How's copyright clearance going on those?
[12:04] davep (runitai.linden) no, text only
[12:04] davep (runitai.linden) charlie forgot to go to group chat
[12:04] EzY McAlpine hehe
[12:05] davep (runitai.linden) (we talk among ourselves behind your back during the user group)
[12:05] Charlar Linden Oops!
[12:05] EzY McAlpine lol
[12:05] Rusalka Writer Well, Prep was lurking behind the fireplace.
[12:05] Rusalka Writer Yeah, ask the Invisible Lawyer, Jeffrey or whatever.
[12:05] Prep Linden yoyo folks
[12:05] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see Charlar and Prep...
[12:05] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) i have some thing but i do not know if it would be right to discuss here though
[12:05] Charlar Linden Ok, let's start
[12:05] Rusalka Writer I have some links to Ferrari, I could ask them.
[12:06] Charlar Linden First item:
[12:06] Charlar Linden 1: Experiment (physics weight) indicates that physics shape type is now silently switched to Convex Hull when any object dimension is less than 0.5m. Can you confirm this and/or provide more information on this? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:07] Charlar Linden Yes, i believe this is true.
[12:07] Charlar Linden as for adding detail, do you have specific questions?
[12:08] Charlar Linden I believe it's efficiency related...
[12:08] Drongle McMahon Just why it changed ... used to be a smaller limit, I think?
[12:08] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I couldn't check it, because my display turned black when i checked render metadata - physics shape..
[12:08] Charlar Linden I can get more info later and post to forum.
[12:08] Drongle McMahon ok
[12:09] Charlar Linden Nyx knows more specifics, and he's out today
[12:09] Tammy Nowotny here egoes
[12:09] Drongle McMahon I guess Falcon might put it in his promised new documentation.
[12:09] Rusalka Writer We like talk of documentation.
[12:09] Charlar Linden he might
[12:10] Charlar Linden next?
[12:10] Charlar Linden 2.Is there or will there be a limit on how far shadows will be projected down to the ground apart from setting View Distance to minimum. eg: Runitai's sim wide mesh landscape/road on MSB21 at 200m AGL casts shadows over entire sims. Will there be a fixed limit on projection of shadows onto the ground on the mainland to stop skyboxes showing up and blocking the sun/moon but allowing greater horizontal visibility? [Chodai Yoshikawa] (OK not strictly mesh but as we are using next generation sims/viewers this is going to be the norm?)
[12:10] davep (runitai.linden) There's no plan to add a limit at this time
[12:10] Rusalka Writer Hmmm.
[12:11] davep (runitai.linden) whenever I try, it creates uglier artifacts than shadows from far away
[12:11] davep (runitai.linden) (like the shadow just disappears and reappears seamingly randomly at some distances)
[12:12] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Is it depends on display distance?
[12:12] davep (runitai.linden) unfortunately, no -- the sim interest list isn't z-aware
[12:12] davep (runitai.linden) and for shadows to stay consistant as you move the camera around, the shadow camera needs to include all objects the viewer is aware of
[12:12] EzY McAlpine what about a "do not generate shadows" tickbox for prims
[12:13] davep (runitai.linden) that would be good, but would require a protocol change to include the information (the existing protocol does send a flag for this, but it's defunct)
[12:13] Drongle McMahon Who crashed me?
[12:14] Rusalka Writer You know too much, Mr. McMahon.
[12:14] Rusalka Writer It had to be done.
[12:14] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) well that was crashtastic
[12:15] Charlar Linden related to collision - we got permission to post this Havok doc: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Best-practices-for-creating-efficient-collision-volumes/ta-p/984115
[12:15] Charlar Linden next
[12:16] Charlar Linden 3. Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:16] Charlar Linden I'll follow up with Nyx.
[12:17] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Please tell about it to Nyx..
[12:17] Charlar Linden I will
[12:17] davep (runitai.linden) all this missing body parts in the crowd is kinda disconcerting -- is that a bug or just incomplete content?
[12:17] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you.
[12:17] Charlar Linden and we'll get an answer to you all. I need to look it up.
[12:18] Rusalka Writer What missing parts?
[12:18] Mikki Miles it happens all the time
[12:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) OK. thank you.
[12:18] Lazy (lazy.spectre) seems to happen alot in this sim,things just stop downloading
[12:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see some body parts..
[12:18] Drongle McMahon Charlar was visible before I crashed .... now gone
[12:18] Tammy Nowotny happening to me; but I assumed it was on my end.
[12:19] davep (runitai.linden) like, Mikki miles has no legs or upper arms
[12:19] Skygirl Kline I am seeing a few
[12:19] Jusden Jonstone i seem to see most everyone just fine:)
[12:19] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see Charlar and Prep.
[12:19] Maxwell Graf im thinking that must be an alpha
[12:19] Skygirl Kline mikki and Yabusaka
[12:19] Graham Dartmouth I see plenty of missing parts
[12:19] davep (runitai.linden) Vivienne has no thighs
[12:19] Skygirl Kline alphas prop
[12:20] Rusalka Writer I see the problem with Mikki, and can't see Vivienne's knees, but everybody else is fine.
[12:20] Maxwell Graf hey oob
[12:20] oobscure (opensource.obscure) oobscure waves
[12:20] Vivienne Daguerre you are not seeing my mesh skirt then... and are seeing alpha'd areas of my avatar
[12:20] Fenix Eldritch Yabusaka's got some oddity going on with her hands forearms and neck too..
[12:20] Rusalka Writer I see the skirt.
[12:21] davep (runitai.linden) better than not seeing the skirt and seeing the alpha'd parts
[12:21] Vivienne Daguerre oh my.... grins
[12:21] Yabusaka Loon I'm wearing mesh body + mesh clothing with alpha
[12:21] Charlar Linden and moving on
[12:21] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) hmmm half rezzed people, missing chair things below me, voice not working yep i am in for a good day on SL
[12:21] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can see Vivienne's legs and hands and head.
[12:21] Graham Dartmouth prep's toes are missing too
[12:21] Charlar Linden 4. Why is it that the default name of the object name of uploaded mesh was changed into "mesh model" from the geometry name of the Collada file? [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:21] Yabusaka Loon might be z-buffering error?
[12:21] Rusalka Writer Ah, so I think I'm seeing all the mesh.
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) oh, that's an SLM bug
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) we cache what you uploaded last and reload that
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) and the cahced version doesn't include the original name
[12:22] Tammy Nowotny the clock in the veiwer toolbar is 12 seconds slow
[12:22] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) uuu
[12:22] Tammy Nowotny I filed a Jira on this the last time I was at one of these meetings--- but it was marked "Will Not Fix."
[12:22] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) next version wlll be changed?
[12:23] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) updated?
[12:23] davep (runitai.linden) Yuzuru: probably not next version -- of the bugs we have to fix, that one is kinda low priority
[12:23] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) It is important to write tutorials.
[12:24] Rusalka Writer Agrees.
[12:24] Charlar Linden Tammy - we have that as part of another item, scheduled for a follow up release
[12:24] davep (runitai.linden) I see -- kk, will try to get that fixed soon
[12:24] Tammy Nowotny TY, it's not a big deal, probably
[12:25] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you, Runitai.
[12:25] Charlar Linden next item
[12:25] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) ah there we go i see people and objects now
[12:25] Charlar Linden 5. Is it correct that any sculpt added into a linkset containing mesh will be accounted as mesh and no longer as a single sculpt prim? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:25] Bunnie Mills awww
[12:25] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[12:26] davep (runitai.linden) it's currently true, but we're talking about changing that behavior, but it probably will be the way it is now for the first release
[12:26] Rusalka Writer Will ARC be ready for the first release?
[12:27] Charlar Linden Not currently, but very soon after. It's important to us.
[12:27] Rusalka Writer To would-be avatar creators, too.
[12:27] Charlar Linden absolutely
[12:27] Bizzy Cooljoke Hello everyone. I have created a car in the mesh grid which the parts equaled 14 prims before i linked them. Once the items were linked together they were 42 prims? Anybody know why it is doing this?
[12:27] Rusalka Writer Groovy. Send it with the pony.
[12:28] Charlar Linden That's all the agenda items...
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre I snuck in one more...
[12:28] Charlar Linden oh dear
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre hehe
[12:28] Charlar Linden Answer - no.
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre I have been good for so long, I just had to do it...
[12:28] Charlar Linden guess what teh question is
[12:29] Charlar Linden We are getting close. It's always darkest before the dawn
[12:29] Charlar Linden :-)
[12:29] Mesh Release 13 days to mesh fpr main grid ?
[12:29] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: toss me a copy of the car?
[12:29] Rusalka Writer July of which year?
[12:29] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you for upload fee reduction
[12:29] Eleanora Newell has mesh been selectively released yet on the main grid?
[12:29] Rusalka Writer Is there a mesh sim you'd most like us to crash?
[12:29] Vivienne Daguerre Yes, fees are much more reasonable, thank you :D
[12:29] Charlar Linden The blog post said we were aiming for July (of this year for all the smartasses), and we're still on track.
[12:30] Drongle McMahon Are there any show-stoppers left?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer ; )
[12:30] Angel (angel.alphaville) cheers for this Lindens
[12:30] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) It is good news for low polygon mesh.
[12:30] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) i have a question concerning mesh and opensource
[12:30] Bunnie Mills some documentation is urgent to have : )
[12:30] Vincent Nacon half way there
[12:30] Skygirl Kline lol
[12:30] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) can i run a book on that date? oh wait gambling is banned sigh
[12:30] Vincent Nacon good thing my birthday is on 30th this month, make it count!
[12:30] Tammy Nowotny what will happen during the yeras when the old residents refuse to switch viewers?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer Are you killing 1.23 at last?
[12:30] Charlar Linden THe lowered cost is for our initial rollout, btw.
[12:31] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) please kill 1.23
[12:31] Charlar Linden Rusalka, et al - is that somethign you all want?
[12:31] EzY McAlpine yeah we noticed the upload cost has gone down on stuff
[12:31] Charlar Linden killing 1.x?
[12:31] Drongle McMahon You mean it's going up later?
[12:31] Rusalka Writer So upload every bit of mesh crap as fast as we can when it goes to the main grid?
[12:31] Vivienne Daguerre No, let it die a natural death
[12:31] Rusalka Writer Noted.
[12:31] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) if 1.23 is killed then about 66% of all TPV's will no longer function
[12:31] Fenix Eldritch which cose was that? Upload or PE?
[12:31] Skygirl Kline it will take a year or so for mesh to cover main grid
[12:31] Angel (angel.alphaville) well, you gained back at least 10 people from me when I told them the good news
[12:31] Rusalka Writer 1.23 has become a religion. Kill it with fire.
[12:32] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) wait its for the "inital" roll out is there a time frame of when it will go back up and should we upload like crazy not to get stung afterwards
[12:32] Eleanora Newell what is the cost now?
[12:32] Charlar Linden Rusalka - I'd advise skipping the crappy mesh and focusing on your good stuff. :-)
[12:32] Drongle McMahon The L$150 was mad.
[12:32] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[12:32] Charlar Linden We're testing
[12:32] Rusalka Writer Where can I get good stuff?
[12:32] Rusalka Writer All I have is my stuff. : (
[12:32] EzY McAlpine So the upload charges as they are at present a not the final costs then?
[12:33] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) The upload fee was reduced.
[12:33] Charlar Linden Costs may change once we're fully rolled out to all of maingrid.
[12:33] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: I get 140 unlinked and 117 linked
[12:33] Rusalka Writer I wasn't even seeing prim counts on the main grid last week.
[12:33] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) up or down?
[12:33] Drongle McMahon I need to put my agenda question back
[12:33] Charlar Linden I wanted to help make it easy for you all to put all your good stuff up in august
[12:33] Bizzy Cooljoke hmmmmm
[12:34] Graham Dartmouth so we have a speculative market as to when to upload?
[12:34] Rusalka Writer On the land I can't afford, I guess.
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny this sounds like a scheme to get us spending L$ againagain
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny naybe we cd have a market in upload credits
[12:34] Rusalka Writer Are you going to have a mesh display sim on the main grid?
[12:34] Charlar Linden tammy, did you stop spending $L?
[12:34] Bizzy Cooljoke vertices dave?
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny well, I try to get others to pay me,
[12:35] Rusalka Writer I share this goal.
[12:35] Drongle McMahon If you put it back up, it costs 80x as much to upload 64 meshes separately as uploading them together and unlinking. That was ridiculous.
[12:35] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) you can't spend them if you do not have them in the first place :)
[12:35] Charlar Linden We'll announce what's going to happen with the Maingrid channels very soon.
[12:35] Tammy Nowotny I buy & sell land a lot... but buying stuff--- not that often, really.
[12:35] Vivienne Daguerre *bounces up and down!*
[12:35] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: about 11 thousand triangles
[12:35] Bizzy Cooljoke ok
[12:35] MaxTux Wonder runitai, charlar, what about: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-1960
[12:35] MaxTux Wonder when will be fixed?
[12:35] Charlar Linden Drongle - We got your feedback, and we're trying to incorporate it.
[12:36] Rusalka Writer *clutches remaining tier close*
[12:36] Skygirl Kline wow i have to be certified to upload now
[12:36] davep (runitai.linden) MaxTux: it's not on the schedule yet
[12:37] Skygirl Kline (behind the times sorry)
[12:37] davep (runitai.linden) so probably post initial release
[12:37] MaxTux Wonder i see, thanks
[12:37] Rusalka Writer You have to pass the Limit-LL's-Liability Test first.
[12:37] Skygirl Kline ok )
[12:37] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) which is all NO, No you cant, no you should not answers ;)
[12:38] Rusalka Writer Just assume you can't use or mention anybody else's anything and you'll do fine.
[12:38] Drongle McMahon I hope having z as well as x & y dimensions on the uploader is on the schedule :-)
[12:38] Skygirl Kline yep
[12:38] Rusalka Writer Pay no attention to the new vehicle avatars.
[12:38] Maxwell Graf Dave, I put up the jira request for a mesh deformer, as you requested.
[12:38] Vincent Nacon Bad Rusalka
[12:38] Maxwell Graf *nudge*
[12:38] Rusalka Writer I gotta be me.
[12:39] Rusalka Writer Although there is an appeal to being a Ferrari F-40.
[12:39] Maniac Choche without mesh deformer it will be really hard for the customers ..
[12:39] Maniac Choche i vote for this with both hands
[12:40] Rusalka Writer We could just sell mesh No Modify, Don't Touch It, This Means You!
[12:40] Maniac Choche :)))
[12:40] Mikki Miles that's why we don't get extra bones - not to be able to vote with four hands
[12:40] Maniac Choche haha
[12:40] Vivienne Daguerre hehe
[12:40] Maxwell Graf maniac has mesh jazz hands. THose count more.
[12:41] Rusalka Writer So will we be having a mesh release party?
[12:41] Charlar Linden Anyone here going to SLCC?
[12:41] Vivienne Daguerre no, we will all be too busy uploading, :P hehe
[12:41] Rusalka Writer With cake and ponies?
[12:41] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) it is like Kannon-with-One-Thousand-Arms.
[12:42] Rusalka Writer SLCC? The real-life conference?
[12:42] MaxTux Wonder please lindens take a look on this too, i think is a severe issue:
[12:42] Charlar Linden y
[12:42] MaxTux Wonder https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-701
[12:42] Rusalka Writer I was at SFO last week. That's as close as I got.
[12:42] Charlar Linden looking...
[12:42] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I want to join it. But it is very far..
[12:43] Rusalka Writer I'd go if I had a bunny suit.
[12:43] Vivienne Daguerre I am hoping we don't have to wait for SLCC for release :P
[12:43] Maniac Choche i confirm the this jira too, it happed to me today
[12:43] Charlar Linden I think we have an internal item for CTS-701 already
[12:43] MaxTux Wonder oh i did a duplicate? sorry :D
[12:44] MaxTux Wonder will be fixed?
[12:44] Drongle McMahon Internal means we can't see it, usually.
[12:44] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) is there going to be any hope for OS developers when mesh gose live?
[12:44] Maniac Choche btw does Joint position check box works at all ? I tried with it and without it on a mesh with moved joins and i see no difference. I stil lcan control both from my apparance sliders?
[12:44] Vincent Nacon not likely, Wolf
[12:44] Prep Linden maniac: it does
[12:44] Charlar Linden drongle - I know
[12:45] davep (runitai.linden) Maniac: it clearly worked for donot.release
[12:45] Maniac Choche in the preview all looks fine, but i though this "locks" the join positions
[12:45] Rusalka Writer Works for me. I think.
[12:45] Maniac Choche hmm
[12:45] Prep Linden Move one of your bones and export it - you should see a differeence in the preview window.
[12:45] Maniac Choche maybe the problem is in my tv :)
[12:45] Charlar Linden When we triage we'll probably link them up. I'm not sure it's as clearcut as 701 says
[12:45] Prep Linden time go from analog to digital then.
[12:45] Rusalka Writer Is the Mac Open GL bug fixed? I haven't tried it yet.
[12:45] Maniac Choche yep i did that , my hands was made longer , but i can still change them from apparance
[12:46] davep (runitai.linden) Rusalka: still working on it
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Groovy.
[12:46] Yabusaka Loon Is there an update for Linden AV mesh license?
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Didn't want to crash the meeting.
[12:46] davep (runitai.linden) somebody said something about open source?
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Yes, what about the armature?
[12:46] Charlar Linden I don't have an update for you Yabusaka
[12:46] Yabusaka Loon k
[12:47] Rusalka Writer Since there's no choice about using the armature at present.
[12:47] Charlar Linden I'll have to post on the forum
[12:47] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) yes me runtinai
[12:47] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Wolfpup is an OS dev
[12:47] davep (runitai.linden) what's the concern?
[12:47] Yabusaka Loon It would be good if we could download Linden AV mesh file with skinning & morphs
[12:48] Maniac Choche http://wiz-bg.blogspot.com/
[12:48] Yabusaka Loon especially for mesh clothing makers (if any)
[12:48] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) the fact that a mesh viewer has no upload or decode of mesh
[12:48] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) when not built by LL
[12:48] Maniac Choche this have versions for max , maya and blender with weighting and etc
[12:48] davep (runitai.linden) it should have decode, just not upload
[12:48] davep (runitai.linden) and I *think* we just got a patch that enalbes upload, but with poor convex decomposition
[12:48] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) To use it, I want to know the license..
[12:49] davep (runitai.linden) the only non-opensource part of mesh is centered around convex hull generation and conversion from convex hulls to renderable meshes
[12:49] Yabusaka Loon Thanks Maniac but I think Linden should provide them if they are expecting clothing designer or AV parts creator to use more mesh
[12:49] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) well this weekend i started work on open-105
[12:49] davep (runitai.linden) so the physics shape display won't work, and most of the physics tab won't work, but the rest should work
[12:49] Maniac Choche Yabusaka it will be hard because of the software versions
[12:50] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-105
[12:50] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) So llm files of viewer is LGPL, isn't it?
[12:50] Maniac Choche but u r right :)
[12:51] Charlar Linden OK, folks - I hve to run to another meeting. Davep and Prep may hang out for a bit longer; Thanks everyone for attending!
[12:51] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:51] Maniac Choche cya :)