Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.05.01

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden AnnMarie Otoole DesolateStudios
Fancy Detector Flip Idlemind Ima Mechanique
Kelly Linden Lego table Liisa Runo
MartinRJ Fayray Motor Loon Nalates Urriah
Qie Niangao Rex Cronon Sahkolihaa Contepomi
Slee Mayo Squirrel Wood Vincent Nacon

Transcript

[12:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody

[12:02] Motor Loon: ey Andrewski

[12:02] Nalates Urriah: Hi

[12:02] Squirrel Wood: Hellos!

[12:02] Andrew Linden: Hello everyone.

[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello andrew

[12:02] Ima Mechanique: hi

[12:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Evening. :o

[12:02] Fancy Detector: Kelly Linden has arrived!

[12:02] Motor Loon: hey sparklepony

[12:03] Andrew Linden: ok, now my chat config is setup right

[12:04] Andrew Linden: I'm connecting with a different computer today

[12:04] Andrew Linden: Simon is on vacation today.

[12:04] Squirrel Wood: different computer. That's why these seats probably look odd to you ^^

[12:04] Vincent Nacon: back

[12:05] Vincent Nacon: oh nice the lego flower

[12:05] Motor Loon: turn your rendervolumelodfactor to 1000 to make these chairs look pretty

[12:05] Andrew Linden: Nice Lego themed tables and chairs.

[12:05] Andrew Linden: Thanks for the fancy furniture Vincent.

[12:06] Vincent Nacon: thanks, I rushed it out 3 minutes before I TPed here

[12:06] Andrew Linden: Ok news...

[12:06] Andrew Linden: the only bit of news I've got is that we *might* be very close to what we're hoping to call "feature complete" for the inital release of pathfinding

[12:06] Motor Loon: o.O

[12:06] Nalates Urriah: Yay

[12:07] Andrew Linden: we still have some bugs, but we are a bit closer to having pathfinding move to a true RC channel

[12:07] Motor Loon: That's good news

[12:07] Andrew Linden: hopefully we can fix most of the known bugs and wrap it up for more official exposure

[12:08] Vincent Nacon: when in doubt, doubts some more

[12:08] Andrew Linden: also, there may be some UI flow redesign for the new pathfinding tools in the viewer

[12:08] Vincent Nacon: overall or just for the pathfinding itself?

[12:08] Andrew Linden: dunno if we'll try to do that work in the initial release or in an update

[12:08] Andrew Linden: just for pathfinding

[12:09] Andrew Linden: right now you have to click on an "Unfreeze" button to manipulate objects that contribute to the navmesh

[12:09] Andrew Linden: and then click "Unfreeze" when you're done

[12:09] Motor Loon: again

[12:09] Nalates Urriah: Will the release be THE FEATURE set or are more features in the pipeline for after first release?

[12:09] Andrew Linden: (at which point the navmesh will be recomputed... this can take several seconds)

[12:09] Rex Cronon: if multiple users do that, doesn't create lag?

[12:09] Andrew Linden: er... maybe even several tens of seconds

[12:10] Andrew Linden: there will probably be more info about this stuff in the pathfinding user group

[12:10] Nalates Urriah: fair enough

[12:10] Andrew Linden: which is on Thursday afternoons, I think.

[12:10] Motor Loon: yes, on betagrid

[12:11] Andrew Linden: Nalates, I think we'll be making a pathfinding update after this

[12:11] Andrew Linden: but we're close to something that we can merge into the main codebase as a first delivery.

[12:11] Andrew Linden: That's all the news I've got.

[12:12] Andrew Linden: Kelly may have some news about this week's updates.

[12:12] Kelly Linden: The RCs had a bug - a race condition around a readwrite lock for the mesh cache.

[12:12] Motor Loon: magnum?

[12:13] Kelly Linden: This could have a few effects - the threads that handle attachment rezing could get deadlocked was the most common.

[12:13] Kelly Linden: All RCs actually

[12:13] Motor Loon: oh

[12:13] Kelly Linden: In this case attachments wouldn't load or would appear not to work.

[12:13] Motor Loon: ouch

[12:13] Kelly Linden: Another possible effect is being unable to rez meshes.

[12:14] Nalates Urriah: By any chance was this problem on ADITI too?

[12:14] Kelly Linden: We have a fix that will be going out to all RCs tomorrow. As part of that the code on Magnum (with llGetAgentList etc) will be on all RC channels.

[12:14] Kelly Linden: Nal: on some regions yes it is possible. There are so many verions on aditi.

[12:15] Nalates Urriah: thx

[12:15] Andrew Linden: Ok that's all for news. Table is open.

[12:15] Flip Idlemind: There are some sims on Aditi running code from...last August, I think?

[12:15] Flip Idlemind: I've been exploring aditi a little bit for some reason ◯.(⁐)

[12:15] Andrew Linden: Actually there may be some that old. Lemme check...

[12:15] Vincent Nacon: think we could get a waypoint in a list in event for pathfinding? SCR-315

[12:15] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-315

[#SCR-315] return list with waypoint in pathfinding_event

[12:15] Kelly Linden: Another minor update: There was stalled process that means the in world map wasn't updating region online/offline status correctly since last Thursday. That was fixed this morning.

[12:16] Flip Idlemind: But speaking of old code, I posted this to the secret forum, and now I'm re-mentioning it

[12:16] Flip Idlemind: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Simulator-Discussions/Linden-Realms-servers-need-an-upgrade/td-p/1508617

[12:16] Kelly Linden: flip: I followed up with Gez, we'll get those regions updated.

[12:16] Flip Idlemind: Coolio

[12:16] Andrew Linden: Yes, there appear to be some regions up from August. I'll ask around to see what is up with those.

[12:17] Andrew Linden: The channel is called pgi-maint-server

[12:17] Flip Idlemind: Pretty good interface?

[12:17] Andrew Linden: pgi = programmatically generated image

[12:17] Vincent Nacon: muhaha! flip

[12:17] Nalates Urriah: Its a typo

[12:18] Andrew Linden: which refers to how we generate debian images to install on our hosts

[12:18] Vincent Nacon: may I repost?

[12:20] Andrew Linden reads SCR-315

[12:20] Andrew Linden: Vincent, why don't you ask that question at the pathfinding user group (if you attend)

[12:21] Andrew Linden: otherwise I'll try to get an answer by Friday

[12:21] Vincent Nacon: cause I uhh... just created the JIRA just now

[12:21] Andrew Linden: re: SRC-315

[12:21] Vincent Nacon: >_>

[12:21] Flip Idlemind: So, I was pretty much told by Falcon that SVC-3811 won't get fixed, but if you look at the comments, it looks like there are pretty good arguments for why it should be

[12:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3811

[#SVC-3811] Sit disabled on prims that are: inside a prim's bounding box (eg, phantom prim).

[12:21] Flip Idlemind: What do you guize think?

[12:22] Motor Loon: Its a bit annoying...but we can probably live with it

[12:22] Nalates Urriah: I think with LI change and Falcon's recommendation for reducing LI, the fix would help.

[12:23] Motor Loon: sitting isnt disabled either... just sitting without a sittarget

[12:23] Flip Idlemind: Well that brings me to my comment on it, "While we're at it, could we get rid of the whole "No room to sit here" thing all together? What purpose does that serve really?"

[12:23] Rex Cronon: somebody gained wei

[12:24] Rex Cronon: weight* too many prims:)

[12:24] Andrew Linden: Well, there is code that tries to find a reasonable place for you to sit when there is no specified spot.

[12:24] Qie Niangao: I guess if it can't figure out *where* to seat you, it has to give up somehow.

[12:24] Vincent Nacon: yeah it's physic based and that's a bit tricky when being inside of something

[12:24] Andrew Linden: So it uses some collision checks to see if it can fit an object that approximates your avatar.

[12:24] Flip Idlemind: I don't mind sitting in an "unreasonable" place

[12:25] Nalates Urriah: Some use the no sit to build with restricted access in combat regions... not very reliable.

[12:25] Qie Niangao: (it would sure help for things like nPose, if it weren't so fussy about it)

[12:25] Andrew Linden: So when the candidate sit location is inside another object, or overlaps another object, the checks return "fail".

[12:25] Vincent Nacon: maybe it need a rule check like when avatar and selected prim are inside same root of a prim , ignore that prim

[12:25] Andrew Linden: Meanwhile a bunch of people use the "fail when sitting inside giant phantom object" as a feature

[12:26] Andrew Linden: to prevent people from sitting in certain places.

[12:26] Rex Cronon: can be useful

[12:26] Vincent Nacon: it's an ugly way to do it but yeah

[12:26] Rex Cronon: if u want people to sit, u just need to add the right script

[12:26] Motor Loon: bah you can always force sit yourself

[12:26] Qie Niangao: that sounds fragile

[12:26] Flip Idlemind: For example, I don't know if these lego chairs have sit targets, but if I had put a big phantom box around them all before the meeting, then no seats for you!

[12:27] Rex Cronon: how do u force it?

[12:27] Vincent Nacon: they do

[12:27] Andrew Linden: Yeah, how to force sit?

[12:27] Flip Idlemind: That bothers me a little...it's too easy to arbitrarily disable sitting for any objects

[12:27] Motor Loon: movement/force ground sit

[12:27] Vincent Nacon: like I said. maybe it need a rule check like when avatar and selected prim are inside same root of a prim , ignore that prim

[12:27] Vincent Nacon: bitwise statement

[12:27] Rex Cronon: do u need to use a custom viewer that has undocumented "features"?

[12:28] Flip Idlemind: You can't "force sit" on an object that would otherwise say it has no room, as far as I know

[12:28] Flip Idlemind: You can force-ground-sit

[12:28] Motor Loon: I'm not on the official viewer, but i'm pretty sure LL's viewer lets you ground sit anywhere too

[12:28] Qie Niangao: Linden viewer has "sit" anywhere now. but you're not really sitting on the object, just ground sitting in place.

[12:28] Andrew Linden: I don't quite understand the example given in SVC-3811... is the apple (sculptie) phantom or not?

[12:28] Rex Cronon: we weren't talking about ground sitting

[12:28] Vincent Nacon: isn't sitting basically like disabling avatar's "physic" and shove it into position?

[12:29] Andrew Linden: sculptie objects don't actually collide as they appear, so it may happen that the sit is failing for hidden collisions

[12:29] Motor Loon: no, but in relatation to Andrews comment about it being a feature... you can always groundsit so there's no point in the argument

[12:29] Andrew Linden: yes Vincent, howeve the agent is still supposed to collide with things when sitting

[12:30] AnnMarie Otoole: I've AR'd mega prims that blocked sitting on a whole mainland region.

[12:30] Andrew Linden: (although I think there is a bug somewhere that allows you to make a non-colliding avatar when sitting)

[12:30] Qie Niangao: well, but Motor, the worry seems to be sit-teleporting... but I don't think that works without a sittarget anyway.

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Vincent Nacon: the apple was bad example.... a landscape on megaprim is another good example... in fact I can rez one

[12:30] Rex Cronon: if u r up in the sky on a platform, how do u groud-sit?

[12:30] Andrew Linden: right, a large landscape sculptie would cause sitting problems

[12:31] Motor Loon: if you want to sitteleport, just use an object WITH a sittarget... that works fine within a megaprim too... again... no argument

[12:31] Motor Loon: you dont need ground to groundsit

[12:31] Andrew Linden: hrm... is there a way to make most sits work inside phantom megaprims without breaking all the parcels where it was done intentionally?

[12:31] Qie Niangao: Rex, it's "ground sit" but not on the ground. it's not regular sitting because the object you happen to land on doesn't know you're there.

[12:31] Vincent Nacon: I can sit in air

[12:31] Motor Loon: yep

[12:32] Motor Loon: avatars can sit anywhere and nothing can prevent them from doing so

[12:32] Motor Loon: so.,.. it's NO feature

[12:32] Motor Loon: it's a bug

[12:32] Vincent Nacon: so why not just shove avatar where the mouse clicked on?

[12:32] Vincent Nacon: even though they won't "link" with the prim

[12:32] Rex Cronon: hmm. i guess in 1.235 u can't ground-sit

[12:33] Andrew Linden: hrm... right so the misfeature that prevents you from sitting in a phantom megaprim is really obfuscating the fact that you can "ground sit" anywhere you like

[12:33] Vincent Nacon: yeah sort of

[12:33] Andrew Linden: however... it does actually prevent you from sitting ON objects inside the aforementioned phantom megaprim

[12:33] Vincent Nacon: can't move avatar into position as need

[12:33] Flip Idlemind: Frankly I think you should break it where it was done intentionally. Sitting on objects is a feature that shouldn't be this easy for a random person to "turn off"

[12:33] Vincent Nacon: needed*

[12:33] Motor Loon: the bug destroyed alot of content - when used in sims with e.g. the big simhanger landscapes and such

[12:33] Andrew Linden: so, if the object moves for example... your avatar will not move with it

[12:33] Flip Idlemind: If you don't want someone to sit somewhere on your land, llUnSit exists

[12:34] Motor Loon: like 1-prim funiture

[12:34] Andrew Linden: anybody here use the feature to prevent sitting in certain spaces?

[12:34] Vincent Nacon: no

[12:34] Motor Loon: nope

[12:34] Liisa Runo: no

[12:34] Andrew Linden: where is it used?

[12:34] Qie Niangao: no

[12:34] Rex Cronon: if i have a lots of prims and i don't want people to sit on them, putting them inside a megaprim is the easier way to do it

[12:34] Liisa Runo: i would use LSL if i would want such thing

[12:34] Vincent Nacon: I never seen it being used like that to be honest

[12:34] Motor Loon: because its not a feature °͜°

[12:35] Flip Idlemind: I don't actually know of anyone who uses it, I've only been told that some people use it

[12:35] Qie Niangao: I think it may be urban legend, actually

[12:35] Andrew Linden: Rex, you actually use it?

[12:35] Rex Cronon: to use llunsit you need scprist for every object...

[12:35] Flip Idlemind: Not if you own the land

[12:35] MartinRJ Fayray: Andrew what about giving us a regular feature to prevent sitting in a region

[12:35] Rex Cronon: i am thinking of making a game.

[12:36] Slee Mayo: trying to sit on this railing won't let you because of the transparent prim around it, but if i enable transparency(ctrl+alt+t) i can sit there

[12:36] MartinRJ Fayray: then you can fix the bug that ppl might use to simulate the behaviour

[12:36] Andrew Linden: MartinRJ, a pre-region no-sit setting? or a per-parcel setting?

[12:36] MartinRJ Fayray: Adeon Writer made a feature request for that one or two days ago

[12:36] MartinRJ Fayray: per-parcel

[12:36] MartinRJ Fayray: but I can't find it. Alexa booted me from the jira today :/

[12:36] MartinRJ Fayray: sorry

[12:36] Andrew Linden: hrm... or maybe we need a per-object setting: no one can sit on this object (simple checkbox)

[12:37] Motor Loon: sounds like a lot of work for very little effect

[12:37] Rex Cronon: that sounds better andrew, and a lsl function that sets/unsets that value:)

[12:37] Vincent Nacon: I dunno... I'd try making some rule check in collision, Andrew

[12:37] Ima Mechanique: um per-prim, not per-object

[12:38] Ima Mechanique: so you can sit on the roof of a car, but not the side of its door

[12:38] Andrew Linden: oy... per-prim is harder

[12:38] Rex Cronon: how about, a boolean for an object that when is checked doesn't allow people to sit if the sit target is inside that object?

[12:38] Andrew Linden: while we're thinking about it... should being able to set a per-prim/object can-sit option be limited by the "mod" permission?

[12:39] Vincent Nacon: not if we have some hierarchy system

[12:39] Andrew Linden: or should you be able to change it if you own a no-mod object

[12:39] Rex Cronon: basically the way it is rightnow, but u can turn it on/off for specifi objects

[12:39] Liisa Runo: no, the mod perm is entirely different thing

[12:39] Vincent Nacon: what about landscape that was sold as no-mod?

[12:39] Qie Niangao: oh, I see the issue. as it is now, the bounding-box kludge can prevent sitting on no-mod objects.

[12:40] Motor Loon: dont see an issue with setting if you can sit or not on a no-mod object

[12:40] Ima Mechanique: I disagree Lisa, changing the setting would be modifying the creators intent

[12:41] Andrew Linden: what if the creator didn't care?

[12:41] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!

[12:41] Nalates Urriah: I'm with Ima. Let the creator set it.

[12:41] Liisa Runo: ..yea, ignore my comment, i misunderstood Andrew

[12:41] Ima Mechanique: if the creator didn't care they wouldn't set no mod

[12:41] Andrew Linden: you buy a regular no-mod house, but don't want people sitting on it

[12:41] Nalates Urriah: If the creator didn't care, they wouldn't set it.

[12:41] Qie Niangao: buy a mod-perm house instead? :p

[12:41] Andrew Linden: well... no-mod covers a lot... textures, shape,

[12:41] Flip Idlemind: If there's an LSL command to update the sit-able-ness of an object, the creator can script a toggle for it while leaving the object no-mod

[12:41] MartinRJ Fayray: well in the JIRA the only possible use that was mentioned that I can remember of, was to prevent that someone sit-teleports out of a part of a region

[12:41] Motor Loon: only potential problem I can imagine if a creator of couches getting feedback his stuff dont work - and it turns out some noob dude flipped that switch and made it not work

[12:41] MartinRJ Fayray: so you could make it per-parcel

[12:41] Ima Mechanique: that's why it should be per prim Andrew

[12:42] Motor Loon: but can't fix stupid

[12:42] MartinRJ Fayray: like in parcours or combat sims

[12:42] Vincent Nacon: per-prim may require hierarchy system, I think

[12:42] Vincent Nacon: in linkset

[12:43] Qie Niangao: See, I think that's bogus, Martin. I don't think they can do that (sit past obstructions) unless the thing has a sittarget set... and if it does, the bounding box kludge won't prevent it anyway.

[12:43] Motor Loon: I can't help thinking this is total overkill for what it is.

[12:43] AnnMarie Otoole: The mole hill is turning into a mountain.

[12:43] Vincent Nacon: yeah

[12:43] Andrew Linden: really per-prim? maybe if the creator wants such granularity they should just set the sit-target?

[12:43] MartinRJ Fayray: you can sit on an object on the other side of a wall in a parcour, Qie

[12:43] Motor Loon: yeah sittarget would also override anyway

[12:44] MartinRJ Fayray: even without sittarget

[12:44] MartinRJ Fayray: or on the top of the wall

[12:44] Slee Mayo: if you don't want them sitting on your object, make it a sit/tp, send them 256m away

[12:44] Ima Mechanique: Andrew so you're suggesting a no-sit property is ignored by scripts that set a sit-target? there's a WTF factor in that

[12:44] Qie Niangao: Martin... maybe on top of a wall, maybe.

[12:45] Rex Cronon: with this pathfinding thing comming, maybe i don't want people to sit on those objects that use pathfinding...

[12:45] Ima Mechanique: not saying that's a bad thing, just it would need to be presented in a way that didn't surprise the crap out of people ;-)

[12:46] Andrew Linden: I hadn't thought about how a no-sit option would interact with a specified sit-target

[12:46] Andrew Linden: but was thinking that the option should be per-object, not per-prim

[12:46] Andrew Linden: and if you want prim-sensitive sittability, just specify the sit-target

[12:47] Ima Mechanique: making the object no viewer sittable and individually allowing prims to have a sit-target by scripting could work

[12:47] Vincent Nacon: only when it come to sitting on spot that doesn't have sittarget anyway

[12:47] Rex Cronon: imagine you make a sculpture of somebody important, do u think that person would like people to sit on their nose:)

[12:47] Vincent Nacon: so I don't see what's the problem

[12:47] Motor Loon: Seems to me a parcel settings would be alot simpler.... if checked, no sitting on objects with sittargets - simple and solves the problem.

[12:47] Motor Loon: sorry... without sittargets

[12:47] Motor Loon: plus fix the bug

[12:48] Ima Mechanique: Rex, some people would be happy to have people sit on their face ;-)

[12:48] Qie Niangao: parcel setting idea is interesting. wonder what it would mean viewer-side.

[12:48] Vincent Nacon: can I sit on your face?

[12:48] Motor Loon: only if you wear a dress Vincent

[12:48] DesolateStudios: Only at adult content office hours.

[12:48] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!

[12:48] Motor Loon: °͜°

[12:48] Rex Cronon: in the proper setting and with the right person possibly ima:)

[12:49] Ima Mechanique: I kinda like the object no-sit property, overidden by individual sit-targets

[12:49] Rex Cronon: and i was talking about a sculpture:)

[12:50] Rex Cronon: imo if you add a checkmark that says "people can't sit on things while inside me" would be a lot easier and simpler:)

[12:50] Flip Idlemind: Oh, and also, there's llUnSit

[12:50] Flip Idlemind: Just to remind you

[12:50] Qie Niangao: (honestly, I think just fixing the bug would be good enough. the kludge's use-cases are few and far between, and cannot possibly be relied-upon from one release to another anyway)

[12:50] Andrew Linden: That reminds me of some my old pet-peeves... sit-target should be settable via the GUI (if you have mod-rights).

[12:51] Rex Cronon: llunsit requires a script for each object

[12:51] Ima Mechanique: multiple sit-targets per prim?

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: "If the agent identified by id is sitting on the object the script is attached to or is over land owned by the object's owner"

[12:51] Motor Loon: that would be cool Andrew I think

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: *or is over land owned by the object's owner*

[12:51] Vincent Nacon: I'm already used to typing in the sittarget with the position and rotation, it's hardcoded in my head now

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: You can use llUnSit to unsit anyone from any object on your land

[12:51] Vincent Nacon: (long over due, of course)

[12:52] Rex Cronon: i don't want to depend on the landowner. i want to decide who can sit or now on my things

[12:52] Motor Loon: well, that can be scripted rex

[12:52] Rex Cronon: can sit or not*

[12:52] Vincent Nacon: sit filter?

[12:52] AnnMarie Otoole: There are much more important projects waiting, this ain't going to happen, just fix the bug.

[12:52] Rex Cronon: i also don't want to add a scrip for each thing

[12:52] Flip Idlemind: You can do that with llUnSit in your objects in that case. I just don't want people to decide who can sit on MY things

[12:52] Vincent Nacon: of course

[12:52] Motor Loon: I'll agree with Annmarie °͜°

[12:53] Vincent Nacon: in favor with Ann's

[12:53] Motor Loon: Gonna be ALOT more happy people with a bugfix, than people whining about it

[12:53] Qie Niangao: agreed

[12:53] Rex Cronon: since a script weight is very likely to become popular i don't want to use more scripts than necessry

[12:53] Vincent Nacon: yeah I already had enough complaint about it in my racing tracks

[12:54] Flip Idlemind: Fix the bug, use llUnSit if you really wanna make people stand, put more fancy solutions on the shelf

[12:54] Flip Idlemind: Sound good?

[12:54] Motor Loon votes

[12:54] Motor Loon: °͜°

[12:54] Rex Cronon: imo is not a bug:)

[12:54] Vincent Nacon: you can't vote, it's only win by logic

[12:55] Flip Idlemind: You can vote it just might not have an effect

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:55] Rex Cronon: one mans bug is another mans fortune:)

[12:55] Motor Loon: true

[12:55] Motor Loon: but in this case... there's probably quite more men thinking its a bug

[12:55] AnnMarie Otoole: Undocumented fortunes are nebulous.

[12:56] Andrew Linden: Well it is a bit easier to fix a bug when we can provide a feature to replace the misfeature that is being used.

[12:56] Rex Cronon: it has its own jira, how much documentation is needed:)

[12:56] Andrew Linden: Which is why I was contemplated a per-object "can sit" setting.

[12:56] Vincent Nacon: I think this "misfeature" is a myth, Andrew

[12:56] Motor Loon: It's not a bad idea Andrew... just sounds like a whooole lotta work

[12:57] Andrew Linden: Right, when it gets complicated.

[12:57] MartinRJ Fayray: the per-parcel setting sounds easier, doesn't it?

[12:57] Motor Loon goes to get a soup refill

[12:57] Andrew Linden: But maybe a simple per-object setting, that is overridden by sit-targets, and has LSL setter/getters.

[12:58] Ima Mechanique: I like that idea

[12:58] Qie Niangao: anything that makes it easier to sit on objects without sit targets is a boon to newbies.

[12:58] Nalates Urriah: Isn't the sit location a prim attribute? Use a build edit panel to set sit point. Or set an impossible location to precent sit.

[12:58] MartinRJ Fayray: agreed Quie

[12:58] MartinRJ Fayray: Qie

[12:58] Nalates Urriah: percent=prevent

[12:59] Andrew Linden: is the sit-target per-prim? I'm not sure.

[12:59] Motor Loon: "imposible location" ?

[12:59] Andrew Linden: I'll have to investigate.

[12:59] Qie Niangao: yes

[12:59] Rex Cronon: setting the sit point pos and rot? that would be nice:)

[12:59] MartinRJ Fayray: the sit target is per-prim, yes

[12:59] Motor Loon: sittarget IS per prim yes

[12:59] Rex Cronon: i mean without using scripts

[12:59] Motor Loon: yes

[12:59] Motor Loon: even without scripts

[12:59] Flip Idlemind: Well llLinkSitTarget exists, so I'm guessing it's per-prim

[12:59] Andrew Linden: ok

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: yes, without the script, it's using mouse click or camera focus to define the position where it lands on

[13:00] Nalates Urriah: Something like the particle editor for sit location

[13:00] Motor Loon: oh that was quick

[13:01] Vincent Nacon: maybe the studs on these lego chairs made us forget time

[13:01] Motor Loon: since you're here lindens... where does the waterhide-texture come from? is it a linden created thing? for example e97cf410-8e61-7005-ec06-629eba4cd1fb

[13:01] Andrew Linden: right, without the script-set sit-target it uses *where* you click as a clue about where to hunt for a sittable spot

[13:02] Vincent Nacon whispers: the what now?

[13:02] Andrew Linden: I don't know where that texture comes from. "waterhide"?

[13:02] Motor Loon: yes

[13:02] Lego table: Hello, Avatar!

[13:02] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[13:02] Flip Idlemind: Is that the same as invisi-prims?

[13:02] Motor Loon: if this texture is applied to a prim, it will hide water - and some avatar parts too

[13:02] Motor Loon: might be identical to "invisi prims" yes

[13:03] Andrew Linden: oh, that sounds like a rendering sort order bug (misfeature)

[13:03] Motor Loon: I've used it on boats to hide water inside the boathull for example

[13:03] Vincent Nacon: I just applied the texture on the table

[13:03] Motor Loon: I was hoping mabye we could have a proper supported feature / texture for it

[13:03] Motor Loon: since the "hack" does have sideeffects

[13:04] Motor Loon: would be nice to have one that only hides water... and not avatar parts for example

[13:04] Andrew Linden: well, if that texture does the trick, it should be possible to upload another that does it

[13:04] Motor Loon: I have no idea how its made

[13:04] Vincent Nacon: I'm sure it's not a simple image, must be some shader map

[13:04] Andrew Linden: no Motor, I don't think water-only selectivity could be engineered

[13:04] Vincent Nacon: DDS

[13:04] Motor Loon: dds?

[13:04] Rex Cronon: it uses transparancy:)

[13:04] Flip Idlemind: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16671

[13:04] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-16671] SL Water prim and Anti-water prim.

[13:04] Motor Loon: yeah see all water is hidden

[13:04] Slee Mayo: that texture does some crazy stuff

[13:05] Motor Loon: it does some COOL stuff

[13:05] Motor Loon: its highly useful

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: yuphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectDraw_Surface

[13:05] Motor Loon: would just like it to be even better

[13:05] Flip Idlemind: And yes we're 5 minutes over, but I'm still bringing up JIRAS!

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: DDS is very common shader map image file used in most games

[13:05] Motor Loon: ah yes

[13:05] Motor Loon: lets get a LL supported thing for that

[13:05] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming everyone

[13:06] Vincent Nacon: yeah, Nyx was talking about it before

[13:06] Nalates Urriah: Thx Andrew

[13:06] Motor Loon: I could probably get 100 votes on a jira like that in a few days

[13:06] Motor Loon: °͜°

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc andrew

[13:06] Ima Mechanique: lol that would be 100 ignored votes then ;-)

[13:06] Motor Loon: ok, mabye I'll take it up at Nyx's meeting

[13:06] Rex Cronon: tc everybody, and have a nice day:)

[13:06] Vincent Nacon: get watchers

[13:06] Vincent Nacon: not voters



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