User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 10 29

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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[8:02] Babbage Linden: hi nock

[8:02] Nock Forager: Hi Babbage.

[8:02] Babbage Linden: let's see how many people turn up

[8:02] Babbage Linden: i nearly missed it due to UK pacific daylight saving stuff

[8:02] Nock Forager: Fake closing other meeting and soon will be here. maybe.

[8:02] Babbage Linden: let me ping the appropriate lists

[8:02] Nock Forager: ah Daylight saving ended already?

[8:03] Babbage Linden: for us in the uk, yes

[8:03] Babbage Linden: us daylight saving is next week

[8:03] Babbage Linden: cue much confusion and missed meetings

[8:03] Nock Forager: We Japanese doesn't have it. so everytime time shifted I confuse.

[8:04] Nock Forager: I really wants SL to use standard time for GMT.

[8:04] Fake Fitzgerald: hi

[8:04] Nock Forager: ah here he come.

[8:05] Siann Beck: Hi folks!

[8:05] Nock Forager: Hi Siann.

[8:05] Fake Fitzgerald: hi

[8:06] Tomoneko Mayo: hi

[8:06] Babbage Linden: hi siann

[8:06] Babbage Linden: hi fake

[8:06] Ange Zanetti: hello there

[8:06] Fake Fitzgerald: hi Babbage

[8:06] Babbage Linden: hi ange

[8:06] Ruth Ring Detector whispers: - - - - - - -

[8:07] Babbage Linden: hi tomoneko

[8:07] Babbage Linden: rubik...

[8:07] Rubik Lungu: hi :)

[8:07] Babbage Linden: lets give people a few minutes to arrive

[8:07] pipinpa Allen: hi :)

[8:08] Ange Zanetti: what exactly will be happning there?

[8:08] lyndell Aleixandre: ello babage

[8:08] Nock Forager: We are here to have Babbage's office hour.

[8:08] Nock Forager: Talking about Scripts. LSL.

[8:09] Nock Forager: and some techs. :)

[8:09] Ange Zanetti: oh ok - something like an LSL course

[8:09] Ange Zanetti: woot how kool

[8:09] pipinpa Allen: hi Babbage :)

[8:09] Babbage Linden: hi everyone

[8:09] Azwaldo Villota: greetings Babbage, all

[8:09] Siann Beck: Not really a course, but a discussion about development of SL/

[8:09] Babbage Linden: not much news on new Mono fixes this week

[8:10] Babbage Linden: we're waiting for our queued fixes to be deployed in 1.25 server

[8:10] Babbage Linden: and then we will see where we are

[8:10] Babbage Linden: all of the high priority and crash issues should be fixed

[8:11] Babbage Linden: including

[8:11] Babbage Linden: hopefully

[8:11] Babbage Linden: we just added another fix for that to the 1.25 server branch

[8:11] Babbage Linden: which should fix the issues with incorrect parameter count

[8:11] Babbage Linden: and hopefully the array index exception

[8:12] Babbage Linden: the problem was with the way events are queued

[8:12] Babbage Linden: each script is allowed 64 queued events

[8:12] Babbage Linden: but also can have events set in the set events mask

[8:13] Babbage Linden: the mono scripting engine was sometimes firing scripts that were set in the mask

[8:13] Babbage Linden: with no data

[8:13] Babbage Linden: which was causing the parameter count problems

[8:13] Babbage Linden: the LSO engine just pushes 0s for the missing parameters

[8:13] Babbage Linden: which is somewhat terrifying, but is how it's been running for years now

[8:14] Babbage Linden: the reason it took a long time to find is that it only occurs after a script has had more than 64 events queued up

[8:14] Babbage Linden: which in turn only occurs when you have lots of scripts running in a region and lots of things going on that generate events

[8:14] Babbage Linden: to create a backlog

[8:15] Babbage Linden: but, now we've fixed the issue we shouldn't be seeing any .NET exceptions being thrown for that reason

[8:15] Babbage Linden: and hopefully we'll have fixed all of the .NET exception errors now

[8:15] Babbage Linden: we'll see after 1.25 is deployed and tested

[8:16] Babbage Linden: other things I've been up to this week include talking at the LSLCON

[8:16] Babbage Linden: and the <head> conference

[8:16] Babbage Linden: I think the transcript of the LSLCON talk will be online soon

[8:16] pipinpa Allen: :)

[8:16] Nock Forager: already put link at your wiki page.

[8:16] Babbage Linden: and the head conference talk will be streading in to second life after 1st november

[8:16] Babbage Linden: streaming, sorry

[8:17] pipinpa Allen: ahh :)

[8:17] Imaze Rhiano:

[8:17] Babbage Linden: i also had an interesting talk with Adam Frisby of OpenSim about the future of scripting last week at the Virtual Worlds Conference in London

[8:18] Babbage Linden: which I've blogged about here:

[8:18] Babbage Linden: it includes some thoughts about our proposed C# scripting interface

[8:18] Babbage Linden: and how it will work with OpenSim

[8:18] Babbage Linden: finally, we've been talking internally about viewer side scripting a bit more

[8:19] Babbage Linden: at the moment the drivers are allowing us to do QA automation of the viewer

[8:19] Babbage Linden: and allow interaction between web UI elements and the rest of the viewer

[8:19] Babbage Linden: which suggests that we should use JavaScript

[8:19] Babbage Linden: but we're also discussing Mono and potentially IronPython too

[8:20] Babbage Linden: so, that's all the scripting stuff that I've been up to this week

[8:20] Babbage Linden: any questions or thoughts?

[8:20] Aazy Harbour: question independent of the previous discussion:

[8:21] Aazy Harbour: have there been reports from anyone but me about scripts compiled to mono losing debit perms?

[8:21] Babbage Linden: not that I know of

[8:21] Babbage Linden: is there an issue in JIRA?

[8:21] Aazy Harbour: yes, one filed some time back. I'd have to find the number. I don't recall it offhand.

[8:22] Aazy Harbour: the problem is, it's purely random. no way to establish a test.

[8:22] Babbage Linden: drat

[8:22] Babbage Linden: that probably means we haven't looked at it

[8:22] Babbage Linden: but otoh it may have been fixed by other fixes

[8:22] Aazy Harbour: just suddenly, an object starts reporting an error that llGiveMoney fails because there is no debit perms

[8:22] Babbage Linden: have you tried to reproduce it recently?

[8:22] Aazy Harbour: still an active bug as of yesterday

[8:23] Babbage Linden: ok

[8:23] Aazy Harbour: I woudln't have a clue how to reproduce it other than sit around and wait.

[8:23] Nock Forager:

[8:23] Babbage Linden: thanks nock

[8:23] Nock Forager: "Need more info"... as always..

[8:23] Aazy Harbour: yes, thank you

[8:23] Aazy Harbour: um... I'm stumped, then.

[8:24] Al Supercharge: I have to go - but looks like this Jira Post is appropriate here as I hear you talking about time spent with OpenSim issues

[8:24] Aazy Harbour: it's not like I can walk up to one of my objects and shout "lose debit perms, dammit" :-)

[8:24] Al Supercharge: SL Scalability - not OPENSIM thats my rant for today

[8:24] Babbage Linden: ok, it sounds like having more scripted objects makes it more reproducable

[8:25] Aazy Harbour: possibly... would 500 odd games in a sim help that? :-)

[8:25] Babbage Linden: it would be nice to have 15,000 in a region

[8:26] Babbage Linden: but then presumably you'd need to click thousands of debit permission dialogs too

[8:26] Aazy Harbour: well, here's the thing... it's not even excessive use doing it.

[8:26] Aazy Harbour: I've got 2 demos of a new game out....

[8:26] Aazy Harbour: they each give out money 4 times a day.

[8:27] Babbage Linden: i'll ask Vector to have a look at it and see if he can repro it

[8:27] Aazy Harbour: I was standing near one at payout, suddenl, the scrip error pops up with the failed permissions error.

[8:27] Aazy Harbour: and I kow full well it had paid people over the previous days

[8:28] Babbage Linden: ok, i've assigned it to vektor

[8:28] Aazy Harbour: fortunately, it was all freebie stuff since I was testing, so nobody whined at me. :-)

[8:28] Babbage Linden: once these office hour notes are online if you could link them to the issue that would help

[8:28] Siann Beck: Have you tried it with different amouns, Aazy?

[8:28] Aazy Harbour: of course.

[8:29] Aazy Harbour: but it's not the amount that makes a difference.

[8:29] Siann Beck: OK

[8:29] Babbage Linden: anyone else have issues that they'd like us to have a look at?

[8:29] Aazy Harbour: and, to be honest, it's not that common... but with me having over 3500 customers, many who own 50+ of my products, I hear about the problem enough

[8:30] Aazy Harbour: I've got a sore knee. does that count? :-)

[8:31] Babbage Linden: not sure i can help there aazy

[8:31] Babbage Linden: maybe see a doctor if it doesn't get better in the next few days?

[8:31] Babbage Linden: ;-)

[8:31] Aazy Harbour: LOL... well, darn. it was worth a try

[8:31] Aazy Harbour: take 2 L$ and call me in the morning.

[8:31] Babbage Linden: i'm afraid i need to head off for another interview in a few minutes

[8:32] Aazy Harbour: thanks for the meeting, Babbage!

[8:32] Nock Forager: lol so busy day :)

[8:32] Babbage Linden: (we've hired a couple of new web devs in brighton over the last few weeks, which is great news)

[8:32] Siann Beck: Cool!

[8:32] Friendly Harbour: i came a bit late today, will there be a transcript?

[8:32] pipinpa Allen: aahh

[8:32] Babbage Linden: any more questions or issues we should look at in the coming week?

[8:33] lyndell Aleixandre: maybe the introduction of C# as a scripting language?

[8:33] Aazy Harbour seconds lyndell

[8:33] Babbage Linden: heh

[8:33] Babbage Linden: well that's not going to happen next week

[8:33] lyndell Aleixandre: lol sorry babage

[8:33] lyndell Aleixandre: yes i know

[8:33] Siann Beck: User-defined constants?

[8:34] Patnad Babii: is the issue with OS function is going to be fixed soon ?!

[8:34] Babbage Linden: it has a dependency on updating our system image

[8:34] lyndell Aleixandre: but perhaps we can discuss some of the semantics on implimenting it ..

[8:34] Babbage Linden: which is going to happen in the next few weeks

[8:34] pipinpa Allen: :D

[8:34] Babbage Linden: lyndell, read that blog post i added a link to

[8:34] lyndell Aleixandre: what do you mean system image ? update to the operating system?

[8:34] Babbage Linden: it describes the broad plan for C#

[8:34] lyndell Aleixandre: okay

[8:34] lyndell Aleixandre: thanks babage

[8:35] Babbage Linden: then we can talk about it in more detail next week if you like

[8:35] lyndell Aleixandre: id love to

[8:35] Patnad Babii: what i mean is there is an issue now in the SL Viewer for Opensim specific language

[8:35] Patnad Babii: is this in the way to be fixed

[8:35] Babbage Linden: we'll talk about that next week too patnad

[8:35] Babbage Linden: now i need to run

[8:36] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming

[8:36] pipinpa Allen: thanks and tc,Babbage

[8:36] Rubik Lungu: thx babbage, see you

[8:36] Brota Kornfeld: Take care, thanks for your time Babbage

[8:36] Patnad Babii:

[8:36] lyndell Aleixandre: thaks bab cya next time :)

[8:36] Nock Forager: Thanks Babbage. See you in next week.

[8:36] Imaze Rhiano: thanks babbage

[8:36] Fake Fitzgerald: thanks babbage

[8:36] Tomoneko Mayo: thanks Babbage

[8:36] Babbage Linden: bye!