User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2009 02 25

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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[8:09] Siann Beck: lol

[8:10] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey babbage

[8:10] Morgaine Dinova: Yay, Babbage! From Blightie!

[8:10] Babbage Linden: hi everyone

[8:10] Skills Hak: hallo

[8:10] Nock Forager: Hi

[8:10] Siann Beck: Yay! Babbage is here!

[8:11] Babbage Linden: sorry i forgot to say i was going to be away last week

[8:11] WolfPup Lowenhar: that is ok

[8:11] Morgaine Dinova: No no, you did say

[8:11] Babbage Linden: also, i'm going to have to leave at 8:30 today as i have a meeting

[8:11] Morgaine Dinova: kk

[8:11] Babbage Linden: so, what would you like to talk about today?

[8:11] WolfPup Lowenhar: dang

[8:11] Morgaine Dinova: How's the team there, all well?

[8:12] Babbage Linden: yes thanks

[8:12] Skills Hak: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 maybe?

[8:12] Morgaine Dinova: Bought an umbrella? :P

[8:12] Babbage Linden: we've just merged our space server work in to 1.26

[8:12] Babbage Linden: and have been looking at a number of scripting issues

[8:12] WolfPup Lowenhar: how is CG likeing it there in th UK

[8:13] Babbage Linden: he enjoyed the pub yesterday

[8:13] Babbage Linden: although i wasn't there

[8:13] Eata Kitty: Finally, more people with us in the UK :P

[8:13] Babbage Linden: prospero sent a mail about SVC-3895 yesterday

[8:13] Babbage Linden: so we're aware of it

[8:14] Babbage Linden: it may be caused by verification of the scripts digital signature on load

[8:14] Morgaine Dinova: I just came back from a pub. Unfortunately if was the wake reciptions after a funeral. Nice neighbour died :-(

[8:14] Asterion Coen: hello folks :)

[8:14] Babbage Linden: although that should only happen the first time a script is rezzed in a region

[8:14] Asterion Coen: (rezzing)

[8:14] Eata Kitty: We thought it might be gabage collection

[8:14] Babbage Linden: we'll be looking in to it shortly

[8:15] Babbage Linden: any other issues we should be aware of?

[8:16] Eata Kitty: A lot of people are freaking out about states restoring on objects if they are attached, detached then reattched rapidly but I guess thats not really to do with scripts, just how the server manages them

[8:16] Babbage Linden: states restoring on objects?

[8:16] Babbage Linden: is there a jira?

[8:16] Eata Kitty: Yeah it doesn't save the state so when you reattach it, its like it was never attached

[8:17] Skills Hak: ouch

[8:17] Skills Hak: even if you wait some time?

[8:17] Eata Kitty: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3579

[8:18] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[8:18] Babbage Linden: thanks

[8:18] Eata Kitty: I'm not sure how long it lasts. It's long enough that you can do it by hand without much trouble. It might vary with sim load.

[8:18] Eata Kitty: Lots of people who used gift card systems panicking. But But thats a design issue they should have been aware of the danger of replay attacks already

[8:19] Asterion Coen: saij ;)

[8:19] Babbage Linden: we've been working on fixing some touch issues recently

[8:19] Skills Hak: hi

[8:19] Babbage Linden: here's how we now think touching works

[8:19] Babbage Linden: 1) Mouse down on an object creates a touch_start and a touch event

[8:20] Babbage Linden: 2) While the mouse is down a touch event will be generated every frame

[8:20] Babbage Linden: 3) Moving the mouse over an object with the button down generates a

[8:20] Babbage Linden: 4) Releasing the mouse button having previously clicked on an object generates a touch_end event

[8:20] Babbage Linden: 5) Changing state will clear pending touch* events, no new touch* events will be generated until further user input is received

[8:20] Babbage Linden: number 5 is the killer

[8:20] Babbage Linden: we've had to keep the behaviour to avoid silently breaking scripts

[8:21] Babbage Linden: but state changing is considered harmful, especially when combined with touch handlers

[8:21] Babbage Linden: if you stay in a single state and use globals to manage states everything works ok

[8:21] Babbage Linden: the cleanup that occurs on state changing is very bizarre unfortunately

[8:21] Eata Kitty: That does sound like an odd place to change state

[8:22] Maldoror Bowman: So if I change state on a touch_start event I'll never see the touch_end event?

[8:22] Babbage Linden: you will see the touch end

[8:22] Maldoror Bowman: Or does that count as more input?

[8:22] Maldoror Bowman: OK

[8:22] Babbage Linden: as the resident will release the mouse button

[8:23] Siann Beck: You just won't get the intervening touch events.

[8:23] Saijanai Kuhn: you can filter out the second just by checking for duplicate coordinates

[8:23] Babbage Linden: the most weird consequence is that if you hold down the mouse button

[8:23] Babbage Linden: you will get a touch event stream while in the first state

[8:23] Babbage Linden: but it will stop on state change

[8:23] Cale Flanagan: [08:23] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Collision with "Overlord Bullet", Owner: Nadia Essel

[8:24] Cale Flanagan: who atacks me?

[8:24] Saijanai Kuhn: this is a full perms open source type thingie if anyone wants

[8:24] Asterion Coen: cale, some hunters i guess :)

[8:24] Eata Kitty: Sort of related. I noticed on control evens, in mouselook it generates far far more control events for a held control when the view is moved. Like, dozens a second. I suspect one transmitted everyframe

[8:24] Eata Kitty: That seems very inefficient?

[8:25] Babbage Linden: yes

[8:25] Cale Flanagan: already rabbit huntubg season?:)

[8:25] Yann Dufaux: hello all :)

[8:25] Saijanai Kuhn: I think that just ignoring duplicate coordinates should help there too, Eata

[8:25] Babbage Linden: it's to allow the picking behaviour qarl added to work

[8:25] Cale Flanagan: *hunting

[8:25] Babbage Linden: unfortunately the picking features were what caused the stream of touch bugs we've had

[8:25] Babbage Linden: but hopefully we now have a set of touch behaviour that works for all scripts

[8:26] toth Auebauch: /aoon

[8:26] toth Auebauch: testing?

[8:26] Eata Kitty: Well it makes scripting things for a held control stranger because you get the event triggered far more times if someone is in mouselook and looking around than other times

[8:26] Asterion Coen: about funny bugs: the ghost scripts :)

[8:26] Yann Dufaux: sorry :)

[8:26] Asterion Coen: once emoved

[8:27] Asterion Coen: (like for overtext, hmm and also particules)

[8:27] Eata Kitty: I had the jira for ghost scripts... *looks*

[8:27] Babbage Linden: you should get a touch event every frame as long as you don't change state

[8:27] Yann Dufaux: well, i have difficulty with my spca nav:)

[8:27] Babbage Linden: at least with the new changes we've made

[8:27] Yann Dufaux: space*

[8:27] Skills Hak: are you waiting for a touch event too, toth? or..

[8:27] Saijanai Kuhn: everyone get a copy of this if they want?

[8:28] Eata Kitty: This is the "ghost script" jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3867

[8:28] Imaze Rhiano: How hard it would be add function that sends message for viewer like (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3848) ?

[8:28] Asterion Coen: eata ;)

[8:28] Siann Beck: How about some way to specify that the touch should keep triggering? A function call before state change?

[8:28] Babbage Linden: actually eata, you're right, you only get touch events when the mouse moves

[8:29] Siann Beck: That way you don't break scripts relying on the old behaviour

[8:29] Eata Kitty: A control for the how the event is triggered sounds quite good

[8:30] Babbage Linden: the behaviour since the picking feature has been to only generate touch events when the mouse moves

[8:30] Babbage Linden: which is what we're keeping

[8:30] Saijanai Kuhn: this is a good thing. Less client-server chat

[8:31] Siann Beck: But even that won't persist through a state change, right?

[8:31] Babbage Linden: yes

[8:31] Babbage Linden: ok, i need to go to a meeting, sorry

[8:31] Eata Kitty: I think it's fair for it not to persist. I can't see why you would want to do that

[8:31] Skills Hak: ok thanks

[8:32] Saijanai Kuhn: darn my first babbage O H since forever /snif

[8:32] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming everyone

[8:32] Yann Dufaux: ok babage, have a nice meeting :)

[8:32] Eata Kitty: Byebye

[8:32] Siann Beck: OK, thanks Babbage.

[8:32] Skills Hak: see you on boston tour maybe

[8:32] Nock Forager: Thanks for comming up Babbage.

[8:32] WolfPup Lowenhar: tc babbage

[8:32] toth Auebauch: TC Babb
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