User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2010 02 10

Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[3:14]	Squirrel Wood:	He is here!
[3:14]	CPU Core:	ok
[3:14]	Gooden Uggla:	there's all kinds of nifty debug settings that i'm sure will induce lag
[3:14]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello Babbage!
[3:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	The meeting isn't dead, it's only sleeping.
[3:14]	Babbage Linden:	hi all
[3:14]	Dedric Mauriac:	Hello
[3:14]	Gooden Uggla:	hiya babbge
[3:14]	Squirrel Wood:	fashionably late :)
[3:14]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Morning, Babbage.
[3:14]	Linnrenate Crosby:	what's the topic?
[3:14]	Talarus Luan:	Ooo he sneaked up on us.
[3:14]	Kaluura Boa:	Morning, Mr B.
[3:15]	Babbage Linden:	sorry i'm late, wresting with new viewer 2 build
[3:15]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Babbage :-)
[3:15]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[3:15]	Kaluura Boa:	Shhhh! NDA!
[3:15]	Vextra Messing:	My pizza intake per minute is way too large .. I wish a linden would show up.
[3:15]	Babbage Linden:	the sound is still wonky, hang on
[3:15]	Gooden Uggla:	nice to know it's easy to use :)
[3:15]	Dedric Mauriac:	that viewer 2 had better not be using the AVL scheduler as well.
[3:15]	SandBox Scientist:	Can we get this threat fixed plz: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3514 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6964 ..should be fixed server side.
[3:15]	Babbage Linden:	ok, done
[3:16]	Gooden Uggla:	that was fast
[3:16]	Linnrenate Crosby:	Aimee... can i bother you in IM with a simple question?
[3:16]	Babbage Linden:	sound i mean, looking at issues now
[3:16]	Morgaine Dinova:	I think Viewer2.0 doesn't exist. It's all been a big ruse to keep us from talking about server bugs :P
[3:16]	Aimee Linden:	sure
[3:16]	Talarus Luan:	No, that's SleightOfHand Linden's gimmick. <.<
[3:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	:-)
[3:17]	Babbage Linden:	so, SVC-3514 should use resource pool throttles
[3:17]	Babbage Linden:	which is the plan for future throttling
[3:17]	Babbage Linden:	and should be on the sim hardening team roadmap
[3:17]	Kaluura Boa:	Ho yeah... 20 seconds, that's insane
[3:17]	Gooden Uggla:	i'll stop bitching about the viewer if 2.0 actually caches what it's supposed to c ache
[3:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Throtting griefers, now there's an idea.
[3:17]	Babbage Linden:	i will check it's on their radar
[3:18]	SandBox Scientist:	but no fun that people can use the spam to crash everyone in 2 to 5 seconds
[3:18]	Gooden Uggla:	i don't care if i have to learn a new one, as long as it works right after 2 years of crap
[3:18]	Imaze Rhiano:	.
[3:18]	Babbage Linden:	so, updates from last week:
[3:18]	Dedric Mauriac:	when is the 2.0 viewer going to beta?
[3:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	Wow, it's snowing again. (UK)
[3:19]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Urgh, so they were right.
[3:19]	Gunter Vandyke:	hi
[3:19]	CPU Core:	yeah its snowing for me too
[3:19]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Started to go cloudy here. D:
[3:19]	Gypsy Paz:	snowing here too (US)
[3:19]	Babbage Linden:	thanks to Cale Flanagan fixing his SHA1 implementation, we now have a working open source LSL oauth library for Twitter
[3:19]	Babbage Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Twitter_OAuth_Library
[3:19]	Natasha's Gear FL HUD: Natasha's Gear FL hud. Get yours free at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Jeju/202/232/91
[3:19]	Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[3:19]	CPU Core:	actually cratch that its not snowing now it was 10 minutes ago.. now its sunny
[3:19]	Dedric Mauriac:	snowing here in D.C.
[3:19]	Gooden Uggla:	twitter?
[3:19]	CPU Core:	*scratch
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	I'm going to be writing up some documentation and doing a blog post about it
[3:20]	Talarus Luan:	Cool. :)
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	but you can use it now
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	add the library to your objects
[3:20]	Dedric Mauriac:	eh, i think i need to update my twitter box
[3:20]	Talarus Luan:	Was waiting on that script you promised. :P
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	then look at the example client for usage
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	it's super easy
[3:20]	CPU Core:	please dont make me look at twitter.. i feel ill when i look at it
[3:20]	Babbage Linden:	go to twitter to register your application
[3:21]	Babbage Linden:	set the consumer key and secret and retry count
[3:21]	Babbage Linden:	with link messages when you rez or rest
[3:21]	Babbage Linden:	reset, even
[3:21]	Gooden Uggla:	i'm standing in my social media communications platform now...
[3:21]	Babbage Linden:	then send a link message whenever you want to update status
[3:22]	Babbage Linden:	the library handles oauth authorisation
[3:22]	Babbage Linden:	and then posts the update
[3:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	I don't get social networking. Why not just turn on the white noise generator? It would be more informative.
[3:22]	Babbage Linden:	it caches the last 25 authorization keys
[3:22]	Talarus Luan:	Based on that analysis I sent you on that subject, any chance for llSHA1Base64String et al?
[3:22]	Babbage Linden:	so people only have to authorize once
[3:23]	Imaze Rhiano:	ya... morgaine.... maybe we can use twitter for real random number gernerator
[3:23]	Squirrel Wood:	you should just go and add llTwitter() to LSL2 :p
[3:23]	Babbage Linden:	anyone using twitter and asking for passwords and usernames should switch to this library immediately
[3:23]	CPU Core:	I dont like social networking either and yeah i look at twitter and have no clue whats going on.. white noise is a good way to put it :)
[3:23]	Babbage Linden:	as we don't want to continue promoting the password anti-pattern
[3:23]	Gooden Uggla:	imaze, i'd hate to have twitter generating numbers for any game...
[3:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	Imaze: now that's the first good application I've heard of for twitter, random noise generator.
[3:23]	Babbage Linden:	http://adactio.com/journal/1357
[3:23]	Gooden Uggla:	besides, tila tequila make me want to vomit
[3:24]	Babbage Linden:	anyone who would like to add twitter promotion to their SL creations, should spend 10 minutes wiring it up
[3:24]	Dedric Mauriac:	when with llTextBox work?
[3:24]	Talarus Luan:	Viewer 2.0, I hope. <.<
[3:24]	Babbage Linden:	squirrel, we shouldn't add llTwitter()
[3:24]	Dedric Mauriac:	It's been in the making for 2 years now
[3:24]	CPU Core:	thank god
[3:24]	Babbage Linden:	we're trying to build a general platform
[3:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	And now we have Google Buzz, announced today. Because there isn't enough random noise on social networking sites.
[3:25]	Babbage Linden:	on the one hand it's great that this is possible in LSL
[3:25]	Jonathan Yap:	llTextBox almost made it into Snowglobe--anyone who wants to apply the patch to the current code is welcome to
[3:25]	Talarus Luan:	Well... *barely* possible.
[3:25]	Imaze Rhiano:	works fine in Emerald
[3:25]	CPU Core:	if twitter are really interested ion SL they can come make a plugin ... evenrtually
[3:25]	Babbage Linden:	on the other, it's a shame it's taken the whole LSL community a couple of months to build
[3:25]	Babbage Linden:	exactly Talarus
[3:25]	Kaluura Boa:	I just compiled SnowGlobe this morning... Where is the patch?
[3:25]	Talarus Luan:	Having to use a LSL SHA1 implementation versus the built-in one is .. rough
[3:25]	Babbage Linden:	the C# version on the other hand took about 10 minutes to get working
[3:26]	Babbage Linden:	because I could use System.Security.Cryptography
[3:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	And now we have Google Buzz, announced today. Because there isn't enough random noise on social networking sites.
[3:26]	Jonathan Yap:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-392 -- any volunteer?
[3:26]	CPU Core:	actually i think social networking serves a purpose.. it lets people say what noone really wants to hear in a place i dont have to go look at
[3:26]	Babbage Linden:	so, when C# is available, all of this stuff will be _much_ easier
[3:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is this sim in trouble? It dropped my last line entirely, the first time.
[3:27]	Kaluura Boa:	The attached patch is for LL Client 1.22... Obsolete
[3:27]	Babbage Linden:	and it's better bang for buck getting that work
[3:27]	Jonathan Yap:	yes, that is why someone has to adapt the patch
[3:27]	Babbage Linden:	than to fiddle around adding or fixing the existing LSL methods
[3:27]	Talarus Luan:	Actually, I built the code a few days after you requested it; the problem was I didn't have a LSL SHA-1 implementation. <.<
[3:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage, there's a "No office hours 2010-01-27" notice here, you might want to remove.
[3:28]	Talarus Luan:	Just figured you would use Strife's :P
[3:28]	Babbage Linden:	right, Talarus, which Cale had to build
[3:28]	Babbage Linden:	Latif tried to use Strifes, but it didn't work
[3:29]	Talarus Luan:	Ahh. Pity. :(
[3:29]	Babbage Linden:	which again adds to my point
[3:29]	Babbage Linden:	crypto is hard without byte arrays and crypto libraries
[3:29]	Babbage Linden:	we shouldn't have to be fiddling around with this stuff
[3:29]	Dedric Mauriac:	Will c# be available only for client-side scripting, or can we use it with regular LSL scripts on the server-side.
[3:30]	Gooden Uggla:	we've managed to do it with games
[3:30]	Gooden Uggla:	you can manage it too
[3:30]	Babbage Linden:	and soon won't have to
[3:30]	Talarus Luan:	Yus, but we take what we get, which is what you give us and when.
[3:30]	Babbage Linden:	right, exactly, so the good news is that you're going to be getting a huge pile of useful stuff, relatively soon
[3:30]	Babbage Linden:	which is great news
[3:31]	Gooden Uggla:	any fixes on the old piles of stuff that will break the new piles of stuff?
[3:31]	Babbage Linden:	and the experience with the oauth library has shown that we're on the right track
[3:31]	Talarus Luan:	If I get a good LSL function next week (theoreticallly) vs the "better way" (C#) in 6 months, I'll take the former now, and the latter can wait a little longer. :)
[3:31]	Imaze Rhiano:	hmm... Server 1.36 didn't include mono fix - is ti coming in 1.37?
[3:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage, are you involved in Firefly scripting too?
[3:31]	Gooden Uggla:	yes, any idea when we can expect a fix to SVC-3895?
[3:31]	Babbage Linden:	we will be fixing the LSL where it makes sense
[3:31]	Babbage Linden:	but not where it overlaps with C#
[3:32]	Babbage Linden:	which is the best use of our time
[3:32]	Babbage Linden:	for example, efficient scripts is needed by LSL and C#
[3:32]	CPU Core:	i think we all need it
[3:32]	Babbage Linden:	and llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFast is more generally useful than working llSHA1String functinos anyway
[3:32]	Dedric Mauriac:	efficient lists are needed badly. they consume too much memory and don't clean themselves up well
[3:33]	Babbage Linden:	so, it's the right call to do llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFast then do C#
[3:33]	Kaluura Boa:	btw, I seriously hope you'll use a shorter name than that!
[3:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	The focus has never been on efficiency in LSL scripts. If it had been, you'd have implemented O(1) arrays years ago.
[3:33]	Babbage Linden:	I think we're doing a pretty good job of getting the priorities right
[3:33]	Aimee Linden:	llSetLinkedPrimitiveParamsFasterThanYouCanTypeIt
[3:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Nope
[3:33]	Babbage Linden:	given that we have 2 people
[3:33]	Gooden Uggla:	oh? any idea when we can expect a fix to SVC-3895?
[3:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	No O(1) arrays :P
[3:33]	Talarus Luan:	Well, I wouldn't have made that comparison, exactly (as it is an a priori argument), but having something remotely useful for hashing communications properly that can be processed would be nice.
[3:33]	Dedric Mauriac:	can't wait for c#. we can use a switch statement!
[3:33]	CPU Core:	why not just call it llModifyLinked
[3:34]	Babbage Linden:	but, here's the right place to discuss it
[3:34]	Squirrel Wood:	llMakeEverythingWorkRightImmediately()
[3:34]	Babbage Linden:	exactly
[3:34]	Talarus Luan:	Sooner! :P
[3:34]	CPU Core:	llModifyPrim
[3:34]	Babbage Linden:	there are partial fixes for SVC-3895 done and will ship in 1.38
[3:35]	Talarus Luan:	Good to hear.
[3:35]	Babbage Linden:	I'm working on getting the other cases fixed right now
[3:35]	Babbage Linden:	and will go back to it as soon as I'm done with this office hour
[3:35]	Gooden Uggla:	partial fixes?
[3:35]	Babbage Linden:	so, again, I think we're getting the priorities broadly right
[3:35]	Babbage Linden:	and voting on that issue and bringing it up here has helped
[3:36]	Babbage Linden:	the problem is asking Mono to load the same assembly twice causes it to stall unloading the duplicate
[3:36]	Gooden Uggla:	talarus, go to the ravkom scripting classes on sunday, game scripting hashes to communicate with contest boards covers that subject
[3:36]	Babbage Linden:	the partial fix checks the application domain for an assembly before loading it
[3:37]	Babbage Linden:	if it's already loaded, we use the loaded copy
[3:37]	Talarus Luan:	Yes, I know how to do scripting hashes, but there are plenty of cases which simply cannot be done with llSHA1String.
[3:37]	Talarus Luan:	HMAC-SHA1 is a prime example, so we discovered. <.<
[3:37]	Babbage Linden:	which fixes 50% of the script rezzing stalls
[3:37]	Gooden Uggla:	babbage... you just described the showstopper that brings every event over 25 people to a crashing *thud*
[3:37]	Babbage Linden:	as we have 2 application domains
[3:38]	Gooden Uggla:	what about the other 50%?
[3:38]	Babbage Linden:	I'm now working with the Mono team to find out how I can use an assembly loaded in to either domain
[3:38]	Gooden Uggla:	is there any progress with the mono cgc?
[3:38]	Babbage Linden:	which is trickier, as you end up using assemblies which have never been loaded in to an application domain
[3:39]	Babbage Linden:	which can potentially confuse Mono assembly ref counting
[3:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage, are you involved in Firefly scripting too?
[3:39]	Babbage Linden:	the current fix will ship in 1.38
[3:40]	Babbage Linden:	hopefully we'll get a full fix in 1.38 or a later release
[3:40]	Gooden Uggla:	how long till the other 50% of the fix ships?
[3:40]	Babbage Linden:	is we can get a full fix in, then the issue is fixed in Mono trunk
[3:40]	Babbage Linden:	and we'll pull that fix in when we upgrade Mono for Big Scripts and C#
[3:40]	Babbage Linden:	morgaine, I am peripherally involved in Firefly
[3:41]	Babbage Linden:	the team came over to brighton to talk about it
[3:41]	Dedric Mauriac:	big scripts?
[3:41]	Gooden Uggla:	and you're confident this will be done in a timely manner?
[3:41]	Imaze Rhiano:	Firefly scripting?
[3:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk, advice only then. Q's pretty much on his own I guess
[3:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Imaze: client-side
[3:41]	Babbage Linden:	and I tried to make sure that Firefly would work with scripts downloaded from the world
[3:41]	Talarus Luan:	That would be sweet
[3:42]	Babbage Linden:	whoever is playing that sample, please stop
[3:42]	CPU Core:	ok :(
[3:42]	Babbage Linden:	I am going to keep in touch with Q and those folks
[3:43]	Gooden Uggla:	is there any progress with the mono cgc?
[3:43]	Babbage Linden:	to make sure that Firefly and Pixie Dust (the server side scripting improvements including efficient scripts, big scripts and C#) will work nicely together
[3:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's not sweet at all. It's non-portable. Firefly is going to be a problem for VWRAP, and potentially turn SL into a non-interopping walled garden forever.
[3:43]	Talarus Luan:	Well, I was thinking of client-side scripting of some kind. Not necessarily that one (I'm not that familiar with it).
[3:43]	CPU Core:	does pressing play in inventory make a sound play in world or locally?
[3:44]	Gooden Uggla:	in world
[3:44]	Gooden Uggla:	you have to open the sound window and play it locally
[3:44]	Talarus Luan:	I'd love to see client-side synchronization scripting.
[3:44]	Babbage Linden:	me too
[3:44]	CPU Core:	i kept clicking it thinking it would popup the option to play in world or local lol
[3:44]	Talarus Luan:	Server-side is just too unpredictable.
[3:44]	Babbage Linden:	I hope we get there
[3:44]	Babbage Linden:	whats the problem with Firefly and VWRAP?
[3:45]	Gooden Uggla:	i'd love to see live music events again that could have 75 people attend, like a year ago...
[3:45]	Gooden Uggla:	you'll see yours first, i magine
[3:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage: there is no interop API defined, you're tying Firefly to SL semantics. That's going to make you irrelevant to what VWRAP does.
[3:47]	Imaze Rhiano:	Firefly would be pretty similar with flash - depending highly on platform where it is running - but I think that Morgaine is bit exaggeration issue
[3:47]	Babbage Linden:	My understanding is that Firefly is a set of tools for GUI construction, I don't see how it affects virtual world interop
[3:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	A portable client-side scripting system that works for multiple worlds needs to be tied to VWRAP semantics if it's going to support VWRAP interop. Firefly is being developed independently and without reference to VWRAP, so it can't play that role.
[3:48]	Gooden Uggla:	so SL can be oon a flash page in a browser
[3:48]	Gooden Uggla:	?
[3:48]	Imaze Rhiano:	no gooden
[3:48]	Gooden Uggla:	isn't that the goal?
[3:49]	Talarus Luan:	I hope not. <.<
[3:49]	Babbage Linden:	portable scripting is a huge problem in general
[3:49]	Gooden Uggla:	seems that way...
[3:49]	CPU Core:	I would prefer the sending of SL on a video stream instead
[3:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage: UI poke the world. If the world poking is done through VWRAP then it's interoperable, otherwise it's tied to a specific world and so goes against interop.
[3:49]	Talarus Luan:	Yuck
[3:50]	Dedric Mauriac:	SL on a video stream is heavy bandwidth
[3:50]	CPU Core:	SL is heavy on bandwidth anyway isnt it
[3:50]	Dedric Mauriac PEEK and POKE the world
[3:50]	Talarus Luan:	Not like a high-definition video stream is. :P
[3:50]	Babbage Linden:	shipping running server scripts between different platforms is going to require a ton of work as we've discussed before
[3:50]	CPU Core:	well for small portable devices you wont have a great def anyway
[3:50]	Imaze Rhiano:	I doubt morgaine that firefly is going handle protocol level stuff - just UI and higher level client side business stuff
[3:51]	Talarus Luan:	I'm not using SL on a small, portable device. :P
[3:51]	Gooden Uggla:	with the recent series of performance degradations over the last 6 months, a lot of residents just assume that the lab is getting us ready to accept SL as flash on a page
[3:51]	Babbage Linden:	I don't think firefly is going to make that any worse, but I doubt they are working on making it better either
[3:51]	CPU Core:	neither am i.. just me thinking of walking around playing SL on a netbook lol
[3:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	Imaze: that would be horribly underpowered, and a waste of client-side scripting. The major use case for client-side scripting is to poke the world with automation.
[3:52]	Babbage Linden:	gooden, if you don't have anything constructive to say, please leave
[3:52]	Gooden Uggla:	have a good one
[3:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	"Poke" is a generally useful word in this context, as the actions are so varied.
[3:53]	Talarus Luan:	Primarily, Client-Side Scripting is all about presentation and user interaction anyway.
[3:53]	Babbage Linden:	exactly
[3:53]	Imaze Rhiano:	sigh.. .let's move on... when you are able to post C# api specification to wiki, Babbage?
[3:53]	Talarus Luan:	I'd kill to have access to custom XUL markup from LSL/Mono scripts. :D
[3:54]	Ardy Lay:	Doesnt webkit to SVG?
[3:54]	Babbage Linden:	if client side scripting can do UI and world prediction I think it will be useful
[3:54]	Morgaine Dinova:	Gooden: not "flash on a page", but the major reason for Plugin-API is believed to be to allow "Flash on a prim", because that would allow a closed-source binary Adobe plugin to be used with the open-source viewer. And LL has several high-profile recruits from Adobe.
[3:54]	Babbage Linden:	it also needs to be able to communicate with server side scripts
[3:54]	Babbage Linden:	I think that is the current plan
[3:55]	Babbage Linden:	it sounds like you're imagining an everything is scripted viewer morgaine
[3:55]	Babbage Linden:	which would be good, but beyond the current scope I think
[3:56]	Babbage Linden:	so, a broader project than Firefly would need to consider VWRAP I agree
[3:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage: precisely, that's the "world poking" that I referred to. And all world poking is meant to be done through VWRAP according to the official Linden position, yet here you are creating world-poking systems outside of the VWRAP context, and behind closed doors no less. Bad, very bad.
[3:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	Touching the world outside of VWRAP breaks the interop.
[3:57]	Babbage Linden:	morgaine, the world updates done from client side scripts would be subjective, only visible in the current viewer
[3:57]	CPU Core:	havent seen that for a while.. the sim nextdoor water has disappeared
[3:57]	Talarus Luan:	Interesting article to get people up to speed on what VWRAP is and where it came from: http://www.jhurliman.org/2010/01/merging-vwrap-and-cable-beach/
[3:57]	Babbage Linden:	which is what you need to do twitch gaming and such
[3:57]	Talarus Luan:	(I was curious...)
[3:58]	Babbage Linden:	I don't think there is a plan for doing definitive, shared world update from client side scripts
[3:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Babbage: and non-operating with any other world, since it wouldn't use the interop protocol.
[3:58]	Babbage Linden:	definitive updates would still be done through the server
[3:59]	Dedric Mauriac:	can we do client-side scripting with c#?
[3:59]	Babbage Linden:	thanks Talarus, I will read up and see if there are going to be issues here
[3:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Interop relies on one's client being usable whatever world you're in. If you add special bits to the client that only work with your world, then you're working against interop.
[3:59]	Dedric Mauriac:	i want to make a plug-in to post snapshots directly to my blog
[3:59]	Babbage Linden:	so, quickly, before we run out of time
[3:59]	Babbage Linden:	I am talking with Gisele about publishing the C# API
[4:00]	Babbage Linden:	hopefully we will have a plan soon
[4:00]	Babbage Linden:	I showed a couple of examples in my FOSDEM talk
[4:00]	Babbage Linden:	which will be available online soon
[4:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Morgaine, you jinxed me. It's snowing here now.
[4:00]	Babbage Linden:	so you should be able to watch that and give me some feedback next week
[4:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'm gonna plug our VWRAP article in IEEE Internet Computing magazine --- the PDF is in the page here ---> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ogpx/current/msg00806.html
[4:00]	Talarus Luan:	Coo
[4:01]	Babbage Linden:	it also talks about a lot of the implementation issues we're currently working on
[4:01]	Jonathan Yap:	Dedric, are you familiar with Skiuli? -- http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/sikuli/
[4:01]	Babbage Linden:	so should give a good idea of where we are with C#
[4:01]	Dedric Mauriac:	nope. i'll look
[4:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	VWRAP intro PDF -- http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/pubs/VWRAP-for-Virtual-Worlds-Interoperability-mic2010010073.pdf
[4:02]	Imaze Rhiano:	must be first time when SL avatar writes article to IEEE :P
[4:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's very cool
[4:02]	Babbage Linden:	some of those questions in the talk have now been answered
[4:02]	Jonathan Yap:	That might not be exactly what you are looking for--the example I was given was a scanner object would signal via a http call that someone arrived and the remote system would start up a SL viewer to take a snapshot of the new arrival
[4:02]	Babbage Linden:	and I'll give you an update next week
[4:02]	Dedric Mauriac:	is sikuli what is being used for viewer 2.0?
[4:03]	Babbage Linden:	as we've run out of time now
[4:03]	Talarus Luan:	Look forward to it. :)
[4:03]	Babbage Linden:	I'll also do a blog post about FOSDEM
[4:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Virtual personna writes article about virtual worlds in RL publication. We need more of it.
[4:03]	Talarus Luan:	Assuming I am still awake next week. <.< *splat*
[4:03]	Imaze Rhiano:	I am not running out of time - we can continue another hour :P
[4:03]	Babbage Linden:	on jimpurbrick.com
[4:03]	Jonathan Yap:	No Dedric, it is a way to script graphically
[4:03]	Babbage Linden:	there was lots of interesting stuff there
[4:04]	Babbage Linden:	including the stuff that realXtend were showing
[4:04]	Dedric Mauriac:	you've lost me. what use is it if it's not in the viewer.
[4:04]	Babbage Linden:	right I should go
[4:04]	Imaze Rhiano:	bye
[4:04]	Talarus Luan:	Thanks Babbage. :)
[4:04]	Becky Pippen:	Thanks Babbage!
[4:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	See you babbage.
[4:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	B*
[4:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks for the hour, Babbage, tc :-)
[4:04]	Dedric Mauriac:	Thanks Babbage
[4:04]	CPU Core:	we are being attacked by tribbles?
[4:04]	Gunter Vandyke:	Thanks Babbage
[4:04]	Babbage Linden:	and work on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
[4:04]	CPU Core:	bye babbage
[4:04]	Vextra Messing:	ty babbage.. one thing at a time :)
[4:04]	Dedric Mauriac:	you still owe us 10 minutes, you arrived 14 minutes late
[4:05]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[4:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[4:05]	Talarus Luan:	Rain check :P
[4:05]	Jonathan Yap:	ha, I've never seen it work that way
[4:05]	Babbage Linden:	finally, on the snow topic this was my commute this morning: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimpurbrick/4345980288/
[4:05]	Babbage Linden:	see you next week!
[4:05]	Babbage Linden:	thanks for coming