User:Blue Linden/Office Hour Transcripts/April 18th, 2008

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[16:05] You: Welcome everyone!

[16:05] Brett Dumont: HI Blue

[16:05] Kitty Barnett: hey-ies Blue :)

[16:05] Mastorian Kingsford: Hey!

[16:06] You: so thanks for coming guys, if you haven't been to one of my office hours, I record it all and then post it on the wiki for all to see!

[16:06] Mastorian Kingsford: yeah he showed up 10 min after meeting would have ended

[16:06] You: so don't dis on anyone in particular unless it's me

[16:06] Kitty Barnett: don't crash, Blue :)

[16:07] Doctor Gascoigne: or Rails and Me

[16:07] Taryn London: Blue, YOU SUCK

[16:07] Taryn London: ;)

[16:07] You: yeah, hang on I'll tell them not to hit the Crash SL button for a while

[16:07] Doctor Gascoigne: LOL

[16:07] You: haha nice Taryn....

(nice reference by Taryn there to a blog post I made pointing out that you call the umpire at a ball game Blue as in “Blue, YOU SUCK!”)

[16:07] Kitty Barnett giggles

[16:07] Trinity Coulter: Rails, do you want to make sure Blue has your permission for that, or will you just AR him later?

[16:07] You: yep, if you don't want to be in the transcript just drop me a THANKS BUT NO THANKS notecard


[16:08] You: Last week we talked a little about infohubs and the need for new ones

[16:09] You: and in the process I pointed out that we are looking at making land available in hub regions specifically to resident run help groups

[16:10] You: how these are chosen being related to a VTeam project to to endorse resident run groups that meet a certain criteria

[16:10] You: it was suggested that talking about the endorsement program itself would be a great office hour

[16:10] You: (although I don't see the people who said that)

[16:11] Trinity Coulter: Carl had mentioned he wanted to be here but he said he would most likely be working at this hour

[16:11] You: regardless, that's my TOPIC and I'm stickin' with it ;D

[16:11] Brett Dumont: :)

[16:11] Dimitrio Lewis: aww we can't get him live via satellite?

[16:11] You: yeah....do you think we should wait until next time? do something else?

[16:11] You: or forge bravely on?

[16:12] Brett Dumont: forge on

[16:12] Kitty Barnett: something else :o

[16:12] Taryn London: Forge bravely on!

[16:12] You: I mean I did pack my briefcase full of important business papers just for the occasion

[16:12] Trinity Coulter: :)

[16:12] Kitty Barnett smells tuna :o

[16:12] Brett Dumont: noticed

[16:12] Taryn London: Dont' mix the folders with the sushi

[16:12] You: lol

[16:12] You: it's salmon jerky!

[16:12] Mastorian Kingsford: lol

[16:12] Brett Dumont: lol

[16:13] You: okay....so the idea behind Help Group Endorsement is very similar to the idea behind the volunteer program

[16:13] You: there are a TON of people in SL who are cool, smart and outrageously helpful....and they sometimes ask us what resources we can provide to help them be helpful

[16:14] You: with the volunteer group, we take a more direct involvement in providing communication, support for specific tasks people are doing, and space

[16:14] You: we can't do that for every helpful group as there is an inherent risk

[16:14] Yeti Bing: hi Amber! :)

[16:15] You: sometimes people join the SL Mentor group for the wrong reasons and we do our best to mitigate those problems

[16:15] Garn Conover: muwahahaha

[16:15] You: but they're right under our noses....very hard to confirm the legitimacy of all groups or provide resources similarly

[16:15] You: Hi Amber, Hi Garn

[16:15] You: you guys are just in time for Endorsement Hour!

[16:15] Amber Linden: Hiya Blue!

[16:15] Garn Conover: hewwo Blue!

[16:16] You: and I endorse this product or service

[16:16] Amber Linden: Hello Everyone

[16:16] Dimitrio Lewis: hi Amber :)

[16:16] Mayumi Fride: hi Amber

[16:16] Taryn London: Hi Amber!

[16:16] Brett Dumont: Hi Amber

[16:16] Soap Clawtooth: sorry im late, lol.

[16:16] You: hi all, grab a chair :)

[16:16] Rails Bailey: waves

[16:17] Soap Clawtooth: hey rails

[16:17] You: nice sculptie hat Butch

[16:17] Mastorian Kingsford: kind of like the blue class mentor program :_)


[16:17] You: so the topic is Endorsment Program

[16:17] You: I was just pointing out that endorsement looks to accomplish what we want to accomplish with the volunteer program

[16:17] You: namely that SL can't directly help every volunteer group out there

[16:18] You: but that we fully recognize that they exist and are aware of the excellent works being done by many of them

[16:18] You: I regularly point to NCI and the Shelter as great examples of groups helping new residents

[16:18] Taryn London: and Help People :)

[16:18] You: but there are many many more groups that i have little familiarity with....many who are helping people in other languages

[16:18] You: yes, Help People for sure

[16:19] You: so we wanted to find a way to help them...to provide a type of support even if not as extensive as we provide the SL Mentors

[16:19] Soap Clawtooth: I've started a group called 'un-mentors' for people who may be able to speak in more than one language.

[16:20] Calyps0 Janus: Good Housekeeping seal of approval for smaller help groups

[16:20] You: and one of the things we're asked is typically for a way that they can promote themselves and be "validated" as good helpful people

[16:20] You: to differentiate themselves from groups that are perhaps not quite as reputable

[16:20] You: so what we're going to do is give them that seal, yes hehe

[16:20] You: the good simkeeping seal?

[16:20] Trinity Coulter: or a salmon

[16:20] You: no...all salmon goes to blue

[16:21] Trinity Coulter: lol

[16:21] Taryn London: all lobster goes to Taryn.

[16:21] Mastorian Kingsford: blue stamp of approval

[16:21] Mastorian Kingsford: :-)

[16:21] Nefertiti Nefarious: Careful __keeping Sela of Approval is TM by the Good housekeeping people.

[16:21] Rails Bailey: would it be possible blue, for some of the mentor groups to adopt a sim

[16:21] You: one of the best ways to help these groups help people is to make them findable, so we're planning on making them visible on the website

[16:21] Rails Bailey: sorry hub

[16:22] You: not sure that'll happen as quickly as we'd like but hopefully before the end of the year

[16:22] You: let me get to that in a sec Rails :)

[16:22] You: one of the concerns we have, as would others I'm sure, is that these are actually helpful groups

[16:23] Garn Conover tickles Blue's foot w/ wing tip

[16:23] You: okay Garn...I'll get to your point in a minute ;p

(as it turns out, I didn't! Personally I think that mentors should help at ALL the hubs, and not a particular one, but it's worth arguing about :)


[16:23] You: so we've got a list of criteria that groups will have to meet to be endorsed.

[16:23] Carl Metropolitan: What are those criteria?

[16:23] You: hey Carl :)

[16:23] You: why I'm glad you asked!

[16:24] You: The groups need to meet the PG standards deemed appropriate for all group names and charters of course....

[16:24] You: they should also meet a minimum size.....3 people does make a group, but not one qualified for endorsement

[16:25] You: so another requirement would be that these groups adopt the Linden Tao of Volunteers as an overarching Charter....

[16:26] You: namely that they aren't in direct conflict with it's principles


[16:24] Soap Clawtooth: A suggestion to these groups would be to set up a group role for people who found that said group was helpful and suggest the option to join the group if it WAS helpful, giving a rough idea of how helpful it was.

[16:25] You: that's a very interesting suggestion Soap!

[16:25] You: i can see it being gamed a bit, but it's worth hashing out

[16:25] Kitty Barnett: it's gameable though :o

[16:25] Soap Clawtooth: It would cut LL some slack,

[16:26] Carl Metropolitan: No--that's a big problem.

[16:26] Nefertiti Nefarious: Um ... with the addition of mentoring groups, is there any plan for increasing the number of groups a person can join? I neeeeed my freebie fix!

[16:26] Carl Metropolitan: Hi Beverly

[16:26] Beverly Montgomery: hi guys

[16:26] You: haha Nef, that would be nice ;)

[16:26] Trinity Coulter: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Tao_of_Volunteers

[16:27] You: different topic though...we'll do Social Networking again one of these days!

[16:27] DaQbet Kish: its been discussed that these groups would not count against the 25 max?

[16:27] Kitty Barnett: Everett did it last week too :o


[16:26] You: each group should have a well defined mission statement and a best practices document that governs their culture

[16:27] You: to be eligible for endorsement groups will be subjected to light oversight from the VTeam

[16:28] You: the groups will have entry requirements and not simply be open groups

[16:28] You: and there needs to be a leadership structure in place

[16:28] Carl Metropolitan: Does VTeam mean Lindens running the VTeam or volunteers.

[16:28] You: it sounds like a lot, but much of it is the nature of any good and organized group and will already be in place

[16:28] You: VTeam meaning the Lindens, not residents

[16:28] Carl Metropolitan: What kind of "light oversight"?

[16:29] You: primarily, oversight will be related to communication

[16:30] You: say the group has some members who are suspended for harassment and it's reported directly to lindens

[16:30] You: we'd want to bring that up in as general a ways possible to suggest that a group should reinforce it's best practices

[16:31] You: if it's decided that there is an inordinate amount of trouble coming from a particular group, we'd have to reconsider the endorsement

[16:31] You: which isn't to say that a group is fully responsible for each and every member

[16:31] You: clearly we've had a couple of bad apples in the SL Volunteer program over the years, but haven't thrown the baby out with the bathwater hehe


[16:31] Soap Clawtooth: I think perhaps every group should seek at least one official mentor to be in it to help create guidelines that are to the best interest of Linden Labs

[16:32] You: well Soap I'd worry that this might be resented by some groups

[16:32] You: what do you guys think....a mentor acting as communication facilitator

[16:32] You: with no actual power over the groups

[16:32] Rails Bailey: and would the group pick the mentor or would one be assigned

[16:32] Calyps0 Janus: Within each group? thumbs down

[16:32] Nefertiti Nefarious: Perhaps START with a mentor/adviser to get the group's goals clarified, then turn them loose

[16:32] Garn Conover: well most groups have 1 mentor @ least already i believe

[16:32] Kitty Barnett: I'd think help groups would be more comfy with a Linden than another resident.....

[16:33] Carl Metropolitan: It sounds fine to me since based on what I've heard so far, NCI will be opting out of this.

[16:33] You: Lindens won't necessarily have the time to help groups get ramped up the way a mentor might

[16:33] Trinity Coulter: I wouldn't think a Mentor would be necessary, but I saw you had thought of group representatives

[16:33] Taryn London: Yeah, I'd think most would want to deal directly with LL

[16:33] Soap Clawtooth: It just seems Mentors are the best people to be able to point a group in the right direction if something goes wrong without necessarily requiring linden involvement each time

[16:33] You: but again, it's always best to consider the posibility of abuse of the position before commiting

[16:33] Brett Dumont: I think mentor (s) should already be in that group...and they have to recommend

[16:33] Soap Clawtooth: a 'liaison' if you will.

[16:33] Taryn London: A rep would be good, not necessarily a mentor

[16:34] You: the group is required to have a leadership team or structure, so is that enough?

[16:34] You: if they are the ones communicating directly with the Lindens?

[16:34] Trinity Coulter: it might be nice to do it the other direction tho, possibly

[16:34] Carl Metropolitan: That would work better.

[16:34] Nefertiti Nefarious: One problem with groups is that they cna have a hard time getting their goals stated, which leads ot them falling apart real soon.

[16:34] Trinity Coulter: where Mentors are encouraged to join those groups and support them

[16:34] Carl Metropolitan: I've got serious issues with what you outlined though.

[16:35] DaQbet Kish: but then arnt you giving extended powers to a Mentor?

[16:35] You: true Neferiti

[16:35] Carl Metropolitan: 1) This is being presented as a done deal without consulting with any of the groups that might or might not join.

[16:35] Rails Bailey: Mentors dont need power

[16:35] Soap Clawtooth: Maybe a knowledgebase article for people wishing to look into starting a volunteer group could be created to point all this help and get people satrted on the right path.

[16:35] You: no power is bestowed upon mentor reps in this scenario, I'm assuming

[16:35] Kitty Barnett: if it has to be a mentor... at least let the group nominate a mentor of their choice instead of someone arbitrary who may or may not be biased against the group

[16:36] Carl Metropolitan: 2) Adopting the Tao of Volunteers: It is not LL's responsiblity to deal with discipline in the group as in the "Consequences of Not Following Tao"

[16:36] You: right Carl, LL would not be responsible for upholding the Tao in these groups

[16:36] Nefertiti Nefarious: I'm thinking "mentor" in the classic sense: someone with the sense ot recognize who needs help and who doesn't, for starters.

[16:36] Soap Clawtooth: Agree with Nefertiti.

[16:36] You: we would merely be saying "this group has a set of basic principles not in conflict with our own"

[16:37] Carl Metropolitan: I would suggest since you are already requiring a charter/best practices document, that LL just review that to see if it is acceptible.

[16:37] You: okay, let me twist the suggestion a bit

[16:37] Carl Metropolitan: As for a mentor requirement. Why leave it up to the group to appoint an officer to be the VTeam liason

[16:37] You: what about a mentor or a team of mentors that interface with ALL the endorsed groups to help communication or guidance in running a group

[16:38] Carl Metropolitan: Rather than imposing a mentor on them

[16:38] Soap Clawtooth: perhaps the knowledge base article could include a charter/best practices section from LL along with a list of reuptable groups already active for people to research.

[16:38] You: I do believe that some groups would really find the idea of a mentor like babysitting....

[16:38] Soap Clawtooth: reputable*

[16:38] Mastorian Kingsford: lol seems alota mentor bias here i thought this was to make helpingplayers more the main agenda?

[16:39] Carl Metropolitan: A mentor coming and giving NCI "guidance in running a group" will be politely shown the door.

[16:39] You: but should it be an option to have SL Mentor available to help them?

[16:39] Brett Dumont: Mentor should be in the group to observe, prior to invitation

[16:39] You: hehe Carl :)

[16:39] Trinity Coulter: It might be nice for Mentors to have an initiative that is focused on supporting groups, but that feels more like something Mentors should do, rather than a requirement upon outside groups to accept

[16:39] Garn Conover: can i have a snack 1st Carl?

[16:39] Soap Clawtooth: I think it should be an option, yes. But i think its one people will commonly take if they are serious about their group, blue.

[16:39] Carl Metropolitan: I'm serious. I'm not wanting to put NCI under the authority of some self-elected group of Mentors

[16:40] You: well Carl, it's not something that's being suggested in our proposal, just brought up here today

[16:40] Carl Metropolitan: I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought this was a set of guidelines LL had decided on; not a proposeal for discussion.

[16:40] Carl Metropolitan: I retract my earlier comment in that case.


[16:39] Dimitrio Lewis: My concern there is liability, Blue. If LL makes a mistake while assisting a group, they accept responsibility for the mistake. But if a mentor makes a mistake or misunderstands something while representing a group, they're liable for screwing things up.

[16:40] You: that could be the case Dimi

[16:39] Sarah Nerd: An option but making it a requirment would be harsh

[16:39] Rails Bailey: mentor police, I dont think so

[16:39] Monalisa Robbiani: in some help places SL mentors arent even allowed... the frankfurt community gateway doens't allow SL mentors to enter their newbie area at all

[16:40] Calyps0 Janus: Mentored Help Groups and UnMentored Help Groups..up to the group to choose

[16:40] DaQbet Kish: and really wouldnt there already be Mentors in some of the existing help groups

[16:40] Beverly Montgomery: we mentor alot of people, in alot of ways, without toting the mentor statis/tag, mentors bring people to us, to *mentor* so to say

[16:41] Kitty Barnett: if there's a weekly office hour only for representative of a help group, wouldn't that be most of the "Linden time" they'd need instead of a "resident liason"?

[16:41] Trinity Coulter: i think the idea of reps from each group, which i think you were considering anyway, might be the most fair suggestion

[16:41] Soap Clawtooth: As rails pointed out, mentors aren't police and shouldn' have to police these groups, but I do think that 'advice' giving might be a good idea.

[16:41] Brett Dumont: yes

[16:41] Trinity Coulter: yes, I think its a good idea Soap, maybe it should be something the Mentors group could discuss and consider working on

[16:41] Soap Clawtooth: Not if it was optional.

[16:42] Garn Conover: yes there are a lot of maller groups that would prbly flurish w/ a little umph


[16:41] You: it's perhaps not the worst suggestion if you're a relatively young group without the experience of some mentors

[16:41] You: but at the same time, a well established and proven group might see it as an imposition

[16:42] You: and it's certainly not a task just anyone would be suited to

[16:42] Carl Metropolitan: Mentor advice team as an option is a good idea.

[16:42] Carl Metropolitan: Mentor police is a very bad one

[16:42] You: so perhaps "support for young groups" should be considered, as an option at best


[16:42] Soap Clawtooth: Leave it to the group if they want to include a mentor, but as i say if they are serious about their group they will want to take on good working knowledge.

[16:42] Soap Clawtooth: Which usually comes from a mentor.

[16:42] Calyps0 Janus: True. Groups are like States,,resisting national govt interference

[16:42] You: and yes, I expect there will be no endorsement of any groups related to policing

[16:43] Carl Metropolitan: Soap? Are you serious?

[16:43] You: as with the SL Mentors, vigilanteism is a worst case scenario

[16:43] You: we won't accept it

[16:43] Trinity Coulter: I think MANY groups have very experienced people with as much or more knowledge than many Mentors

[16:43] Brett Dumont: why would we want "young groups"....don't we want proven groups?

[16:43] Soap Clawtooth: It's about whether ther person startig the group is totally sure how to execute going about it

[16:43] Soap Clawtooth: taking on advice on how to deal with stuff is never a bad idea.

[16:44] Beverly Montgomery: exactly trinity

[16:44] You: yes Brett, but of those groups, some may not have the full experience of, say, SL Mentors' best and brightest

[16:44] Soap Clawtooth: I agree trinity

[16:44] Trinity Coulter: maybe the groups could have a amount of time they have existed as another requirement for endorsement

[16:44] Carl Metropolitan: Beverly--how many people on NCI's BoD are members of the Mentors?

[16:44] You: and yes Trin that's very true as well

[16:44] Carl Metropolitan: Do you recall?

[16:44] Calyps0 Janus: Next item on this agenda?

[16:44] Trinity Coulter: and maybe Mentors or other groups could sponsor "growth programs" to help newer groups get going

[16:44] Beverly Montgomery: at least 4

[16:45] PulseBurst Flow: What is the problem that this endorsement proposal is designed to solve? Are there rampant disreputable groups offering help to people now?

[16:45] Beverly Montgomery: im not totally sure, but at least 4, 1 i know left the mentors, did not aprove of how it was run

[16:45] Garn Conover: let me see

[16:46] Carl Metropolitan: Here's a counter-proposal. Groups appoint a representative. Those representatives meet monthly with a Linden (say you).

[16:46] Soap Clawtooth: I vote for a good knowledgebase article as a starter guide.

[16:46] Carl Metropolitan: No filitering and misunderstanding due to going through mentors.

[16:46] Sarah Nerd: I like Carl's idea

[16:46] You: Carl, that's part of what we have proposed, yes hehe


[16:45] You: so let's wrap up this subtopic.....Mentors as liaisons or helpers is questionable, lots of facets to the problem and a mixed response here

[16:45] You: what about other aspects of our plan as it exists now...anything to take issue with or add to?

[16:46] You: group size must be >25 let's say


[16:46] You: is a minimum size acceptable?

[16:46] DaQbet Kish: what about time in existance?

[16:46] Calyps0 Janus: Suggested minimum size?

[16:46] You: we haven't said anything about minimum group age either

[16:46] You: right DaQ

[16:46] Rails Bailey: 25, three regulars and 22 that dont log in often, dangerous blue

[16:46] Garn Conover: 6 carl plus 1 who left because they got annyed by the restrictions

[16:47] Soap Clawtooth: Agreed, rails.

[16:47] Trinity Coulter: i think size is a potential indicator of group maturity, i might suggest after a certain size, you look at what the group is doing to reach out to its membership, to ensure its not just a big inflated group

[16:47] You: so what about 100

[16:47] Carl Metropolitan: Few will meet 100 members

[16:47] Brett Dumont: minimum Blue....but time is a major factor

[16:47] You: would that limit small language groups that are helping a particular community?

[16:47] Dimitrio Lewis: on the other hand, 25 might be an indication of a mature group that's been in existance for six months and has carefully vetted each of its members

[16:47] Soap Clawtooth: I would say 25 with 3 month age limit

[16:47] Rails Bailey: same argument blue, devils advocate here, maybe u need to look at login times

[16:47] Soap Clawtooth: Half of that of the official mentors but enough that they'll have knowledge if they're right for the task

[16:48] You: the SL mentors requires 6 months, should it be the same for endorsed groups?

[16:48] Kitty Barnett: a group with 25 *active* members would be better than a group with 3 active and 97 dormant though... group size by itself doesn't tell much :o

[16:48] Brett Dumont: yes

[16:48] Dimitrio Lewis: yes

[16:48] Trinity Coulter: well, rather than logins, maybe effectiveness, like a resume of accomplishments

[16:48] You: okay..."active" that's a tough one to prove

[16:48] You: we have trouble doing it with SL Mentors

[16:48] You: they may appear active inworld, but that doesn't mean they're helping anyone

[16:49] Soap Clawtooth: For example im coming up on 2 months, i think and my knowledge is probably equal to mentor knowledge because im active quite alot.

[16:49] Trinity Coulter: its more of an admin headache for LL to check a lot of login times, but it would be work in itself to prepare a resume of accomplishments, even if its all fake

[16:49] You: perhaps that's another topic altogether hehe....how to track participation in a group

[16:49] Brett Dumont: we are talking about the group Soap...not the individual

[16:49] Calyps0 Janus: Gehelp those wanting their help.ez, quite a few requirements before a group receives endorsement to

[16:49] Soap Clawtooth: If i see a question i can answer, i will.

[16:49] Rails Bailey: if people want a seal of approval blue, giving it on a plate devalues it

[16:49] You: agreed Rails


[16:49] Dimitrio Lewis: Some inworld businesses have timeclocks to keep track of their employee hours, so something may be possible with scripting.

[16:50] Trinity Coulter: well i don't feel that these groups want to consent to a lot of tracking

[16:50] Trinity Coulter: like the timeclocks, i mean

[16:50] Rails Bailey: and if u dont rack, u get rougue elements who want approval and do nothing else

[16:50] You: Trinity...then we're getting too close to "unpaid employee" for my taste

[16:50] You: I would hate to anger the legal eagles ;)

[16:51] Trinity Coulter: with what Blue?

[16:51] You: Trin, the idea of timeclocks would bother me too

[16:51] Trinity Coulter: oh yes, i agree

[16:51] You: i think you're right other groups would hate that

[16:51] Dimitrio Lewis: was just noting that tracking is possible

[16:52] Rails Bailey: everything on SL is tracked, at server level


[16:49] Carl Metropolitan: What will the benifits of group endorsement be for the groups?

[16:50] You: ah Carl, I think you missed that part

[16:50] You: primarily to help them promote themselves

[16:50] You: via the website on a page much like Showcase

[16:50] Carl Metropolitan: I'm very sorry. I had to take off early from work to get here when I did.

[16:50] Brett Dumont: if they are already successful, why do they need to be promoted?

[16:50] Carl Metropolitan: Okay--link or a LL website.

[16:50] Soap Clawtooth: lol.

[16:51] Carl Metropolitan: Link on a LL website.

[16:51] You: appreciated Carl

[16:51] Carl Metropolitan: What else besides that?

[16:52] You: in addition to the site, we'd want to keep a list of groups in the program that's easily referenced for people concerned with a group that they are not sure about

[16:52] Soap Clawtooth: Wiki is a good place for that.

[16:52] You: so that if someone claims endorsed status...claims to meet LL's minimum requirements...they can quickly confirm it

[16:52] Garn Conover: sounds like BBB (Better Business Bureau)

[16:53] Trinity Coulter: one thing i might suggest is an in-world seal, that links people to the Endorsement showcase page, that these groups can drop at their land to show they are Endorsed... it could be scripted and updatable and a way to connect group efforts together in SL

[16:53] Garn Conover: is hte wiki back yet?

[16:53] You: yes, a wiki page is good....perhaps something that can be referenced ffrom kiosk in new user areas, etc

[16:53] You: hehe. yes Garn, only without the business part

[16:53] Kitty Barnett: what about an announcement time between applying and actual endorsement? if someone had legitimate concerns about a group, they could bring them up and have to substantiate them?... you could have lower qualifications and the concern with find out whether they're active will come through objections

[16:53] Dimitrio Lewis: wiki would be a good use for html on a prim

[16:53] Trinity Coulter: yes, and placed at Infohubs

[16:54] You: and likely the option of setting up near an infohub yes :)

[16:54] Carl Metropolitan: Do the endorsed groups get any sort of tangible benifits like: space at InfoHubs, tier discounts,

[16:54] Carl Metropolitan: Ah--you just answered part of that.

[16:54] You: i'm hoping to build out new hubs in the not so distant future, as we talked about last meeting

[16:54] You: yeah, that's a very tangible kind of benefit to endorsement, but only for some

[16:55] Rails Bailey: great, cos some of the mainland is barren

[16:55] You: there wouldn't be significant space available at every hub

[16:55] Soap Clawtooth: perhaps..and im going out on a limb here...as more promotion support when this is setup, you could get a vid-tutorial of 'finding help in world' going as well?

(I'll have to harass Torley for that!)

[16:55] You: and even then, we've got only so many hubs

[16:55] You: which is another thing I wanted to get feedback from you guys on

[16:55] Soap Clawtooth: Folk pay alot of attention to the vid-tuts.


[16:55] You: how would that space be designated?

[16:55] You: by lotto, like luna/busy bens?

[16:55] Garn Conover: Torley did something like that and ended up getting lost @ one of our plaza's haha

[16:55] Trinity Coulter: Blue, I would suggest that if you do that its rotated out and that upcoming groups in the rotation know about it ahead of time so they can prepare their area off-site ahead of time and just drop it in

[16:55] You: or would there be a steep set of requirements to earning a permanent space?

[16:55] Soap Clawtooth: lol.

[16:55] Soap Clawtooth: garn.

[16:56] You: right....agreed Trin

[16:56] Garn Conover: poor guy

[16:56] You: haha garn, really

[16:56] Trinity Coulter: much more seamless that way

[16:56] Kitty Barnett: permanent space might mean it's left to fend for itself and not updated since there's no need?

[16:56] Trinity Coulter: yes

[16:56] Garn Conover: yea one on sandboxes :)

[16:56] Carl Metropolitan: Or space can be self-updating from central servers.

[16:56] Trinity Coulter: if its clear its always impermanent it will be more incentive to maintain it

[16:56] Rails Bailey: rotating hubs, local business are going to hate that

[16:56] Soap Clawtooth: Couldn't you add it a 1) knowledgebase article and 2) a guide on the support page?


[16:57] You: what if we were to say "we're going to keep making more hubs....3 a quarter, but to get a space there you have to prove you're far and away one of the top help groups"

[16:57] You: what would the requirements be

[16:57] Yeti Bing: set of requirements to earning a permanent space is much better than a lotto

[16:57] You: longest time in SL? largest membership? best uniforms?

[16:57] Trinity Coulter: well proof of how many you help

[16:57] Garn Conover: be intersting to know how many help groups their actually are lol

[16:57] Trinity Coulter: biggest blt sandwiches?

[16:57] Soap Clawtooth: Longest time in SL & largest membership.

[16:58] You: if someone can come up with that, we'll consider applying it to the SL Mentors Trin ;)

[16:58] Rails Bailey: devils advocate again, and what if war starts out between competing groups, more problems, not less

[16:58] Dimitrio Lewis: A way of measuring reputation would be good, but that could be gamed

[16:58] Soap Clawtooth: But with no anymosity to other smaller groups hanging around in those places.

[16:58] Carl Metropolitan: We will make good uniforms if needed.

[16:58] You: most small unmarked salmon in a plain envelope left under blue's desk

[16:58] Kitty Barnett: lol

[16:58] Trinity Coulter: LOL

[16:58] Brett Dumont: that's it....end of discussion

[16:58] Garn Conover: Carl do i HAAAAVVEE TOOOO!

[16:58] Trinity Coulter: if its unmarked... how do you know?

[16:58] You: Hmmm rails....but competition is a good thing primarily

[16:58] Garn Conover: hehe

[16:58] You: wouldn't it be a war of who's the most helpful and nice?

[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: I have a suggestion for the spaces in the Hubs. Charge tier for them. That will weed out some non-serious something-for-nothing applicants.

[16:59] Dimitrio Lewis: competing groups isn't neccessarily a bad idea, or there are benefits for example, for most people helped in a month *musing*

[16:59] You: good point Carl

[16:59] Fenix Hudson is Online

[16:59] Rails Bailey: blue I can take u to a sim where heavy handed tactics have reduced the popularity

[16:59] You: oh yah?

[16:59] Yeti Bing: [16:58] Blue Linden: wouldn't it be a war of who's the most helpful and nice?" Isn't that a nice way of war?

[16:59] You: heavy handed help tactics?

[16:59] Trinity Coulter: actually Blue... PRIME spaces might be good for competition, but lesser spaces might be better to just rotate among all

[16:59] Doctor Gascoigne: this is a giant issue

[16:59] Rails Bailey: yep

[16:59] Brett Dumont: agree Doc

[16:59] Doctor Gascoigne: surely its going to take more than a while to work out the details

[16:59] You: that could be the case too Trin....

[17:00] Trinity Coulter: but they need to be in easy to understand and report metrics

[17:00] Calyps0 Janus: thinks this entire topic just opens up LL to more controversy, even tho the goal is honorable.

[17:00] Dimitrio Lewis: ooh, most helpful group of the month gets the prime spot in addition to their normal parcel?

[17:00] You: perhaps large central space for general help focused group

[17:00] Rails Bailey: willing to talk about it but not here, its a sensiutive issue

[17:00] You: and smaller rotating spaces for language-centric groups

[17:00] Brett Dumont: KISS formula (Keep it Simple, Stupid)

[17:00] You: haha yes Brett

[17:00] Trinity Coulter: yes, group focus might be an easy way, but still wouldn't be clear measurement of performance

[17:01] You: very much like the way to always win a dogfight...the DGSS principle

[17:01] You: Don't Get Shot, Stupid

[17:01] Brett Dumont: :)

[17:01] Trinity Coulter: how about the LHGM one?


[17:01] Rails Bailey: prefer SunTsu

[17:01] Trinity Coulter: Lindens Have God Mod

[17:01] Trinity Coulter: Mode

[17:01] Rails Bailey: keep your enimies close

[17:01] You: hehe

[17:01] You: Sun Tsu for the win over many centuries

[17:02] Soap Clawtooth rolls eyes.

[17:02] Beverly Montgomery: heh keep your friends close, and enemies closer XD

[17:02] Soap Clawtooth: Maybe people wishing to join this groups should undergo an orientation similar t that in place for Mentors by LL?


[17:02] You: so is there anything terribly obvious that we're missing that's going to ruin this idea?

[17:02] You: or something we're missing that would make it a landslide victory?

[17:02] Brett Dumont: Needs a lot of work I'd think

[17:02] PulseBurst Flow: perception of FIC?

[17:03] You: Hmmm....that's always a bit of a problem, yes Pulse

[17:03] You: I think with consistency and transparency it's well mitigated though

[17:03] DaQbet Kish: is there a time frame on this?

[17:03] Rails Bailey: a few things dont sit well, it needs more disucssion blue, and a blueprint

[17:03] Trinity Coulter: Blue... will these be permanent endorsements or will they have a time limit for re-application?

[17:03] You: they will not be permanent....hense the light Linden oversight

[17:03] You: re-application for endorsement makes sense

[17:04] Kooky Jetaime listens

[17:04] Rails Bailey: basic TQM blue

[17:04] Carl Metropolitan: How often would that be required?

[17:04] Rails Bailey: yearly licensing

[17:04] Trinity Coulter: if you make the Blue Linden for CEO Help Group, is that an easy in?

[17:04] You: and we can revisit this again at another meeting too Rails....perhpas harass the other VTeam members at their office hours ;D

[17:04] Amber Linden: :))

[17:04] You: hah! no pork spending by this politician ;p

[17:04] Trinity Coulter: just salmon

[17:04] Amber Linden: lol

[17:04] Soap Clawtooth: lol.

[17:05] You: no-bid contracts for all blue-worship related groups

[17:05] Trinity Coulter: lol

[17:05] Rails Bailey: oooooooo bacon sandwich

[17:05] Garn Conover waves paw to Amber

[17:05] Trinity Coulter: Salmon Lettuce and Tomato

[17:05] Patsy Linden is Offline

[17:05] Amber Linden: Hiya Garn

[17:05] You: so it's 5 and I don't want anyone to miss Kate's awesome office hour if you're a regular there

[17:05] You: but I'm happy to stick around a bit

[17:05] Amber Linden: no, but its over now...lol

[17:05] Carl Metropolitan: Have a look at that, Blue

[17:05] You: Thanks for coming everyone....per usual I'm in your debt for the excellent feedback

[17:06] Carl Metropolitan: I'm sorry if I seemed so negative

[17:06] You: Kate's office is just to the NE of here :)

[17:06] Garn Conover: well thats the good part :) u dont have tio repeat it that often

[17:06] Amber Linden: Awesome meeting everyone!

[17:06] You: Carl, constructive criticism is worth it's weight in salmon!

[17:06] Carl Metropolitan: I've had a bad day and came in and thought you were "telling us how it was going to be" instead of asking for Input

[17:06] Trinity Coulter: i guess not having the Consequences of Tao makes a big difference

[17:06] Carl Metropolitan: Huge

[17:06] Trinity Coulter: among other things

[17:06] Garn Conover pets Carl w/ wing

[17:06] Rails Bailey: any news on OIP blue, its future

[17:07] You: hehe....I really try never to do that Carl...it would be crazy what with all the great suggestions you guys have made in the past year

[17:07] Kitty Barnett hopes this topic doesn't get a life of its own on the rumour mill again :o

[17:07] You: if I haven't said it lately...and I know this might be too soon for you...

[17:07] You: I....I love you

[17:07] You: there I said it

[17:07] Trinity Coulter: awww

[17:07] Taryn London: awwww :)

[17:07] Kitty Barnett: awwwww

[17:07] Garn Conover: Mrewp Mrewp! ^_^

[17:14] You: thanks again for coming :)

[17:14] You: have a great rest of the week!