User:Brooke Linden/Maturity User Group

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Sorry this is not pretty--wikify is not working on this log and I just wanted to get it posted. [16:00] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): Hi Brooke

[16:01] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Hi Brooke

[16:01] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): Hi Brooke, nice to see you

[16:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): hello!

[16:01] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Hello Brooke

[16:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): great to see you all

[16:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i've got another linden coming, let's wait a few for him

[16:01] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): he's our user experience person

[16:01] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Do you want more ppl here?

[16:02] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): there he is.. Hi Rigney

[16:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll defer to you all, do you think it woudl be productive to open this up more?

[16:02] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): yes

[16:02] Leonidas (rigney.linden): hi

[16:02] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Hi Rigney

[16:02] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): then you will not be accused of having secret meetings

[16:02] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): depends, if it gets all shouty and bitchy that's less productive

[16:02] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): we will not be LL pets

[16:02] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ah, that's it :)

[16:03] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): could just send a message in the commerce group

[16:03] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): sure, put it in the commerce group

[16:03] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i can

[16:03] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): thanks Brooke, a bit more feedback would be a benefit

[16:03] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): group chat broken for me tho

[16:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm unable to post to the group

[16:04] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): me either

[16:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i keep getting an error

[16:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): hmm

[16:04] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): it's been laggy for hours

[16:04] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): yeah, 12-5pm PST is prime time, group chats are more likely to hiccup and fail during that time

[16:04] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): well, if someone wants to keep trying, please, go ahead

[16:04] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): k

[16:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): thx

[16:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, we've gotten a lot of feedback on maturity

[16:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): :)

[16:05] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and we've been trying to sift through to see what we can do quickly

[16:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): to address

[16:06] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): hopefully turning off active filtering is one of them

[16:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): all in all, maturity ratings are here to stay, and filtering will continue to be a part of it

[16:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): however, we are looking at some ways to change that

[16:06] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but, that is not the first item

[16:07] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the first thing is that merchants have indicated they have seen a drop in revenue on the items that have been marked as moderate or adult

[16:07] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and were not adult before

[16:07] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): what a horrible, horrible experience this will be for merchants

[16:07] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): it is not surprising that this would happen, but we'd like to minimize

[16:07] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): Which would not matter if the check box was persistant

[16:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, here's what we are planning to do for this week

[16:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if a user logs in and is under 18, they will only be able to view general content

[16:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if a user logs in and is over 18, they will automatically see moderate and general content

[16:08] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if the user logs in and is over 18, they will have to check the check box to view adult content

[16:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the goal is to increase the ability of people over 18 to find moderate items

[16:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and more closely mimics what was happening before

[16:09] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and i'm not ignoring other comments, but we'll get to those in a sec

[16:09] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): all to compensate for a flawed active filtration system

[16:10] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): a non persistant login has hurt adult item sales

[16:10] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): (I am all general tho)

[16:10] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, currently the check box will stay checked

[16:10] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but it expires

[16:11] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): yeah, that's been a long-term issue from back on xstreet, Pamela, I agree

[16:11] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): which can be changed

[16:11] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): but there are items that should be in Adult that are marked general now

[16:11] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): so under 18s will have access to those

[16:11] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): type in sex boat in general

[16:11] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so first, are there any comments on the above approach before we move on the filtering

[16:11] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Just like i think there are items held back in Adult that should be in Moderate.

[16:12] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): yes -- customers are not aware that their login is not infinitey persistant

[16:12] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): so they do not check it each time

[16:12] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): or when it expires

[16:12] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): playing devil's advocate, there may be some over-18 prudish types who will be offended at the site constantly re-enabling mature content

[16:12] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so would you prefer we spend some time fixing that asap and delay changing filtering altogether?

[16:13] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): I am repeating what my X rated friends have said

[16:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): well, the most common search setting is usually moderate and general in world

[16:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ah, ok pamela

[16:13] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): There needs to be a preference

[16:13] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): like there is inworld

[16:13] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but, yes, trilobyte, we do risk some people seeing content that they do not want to see

[16:14] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): you do not have to check prefs every time you do an inworld search

[16:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so what will happen with that

[16:14] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): and at the moment teens seen adult content too

[16:14] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I agree, the long term solution is it needs to be an account preference, that is remembered/persistent across sessions

[16:14] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): seeing

[16:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we will provide checkboxes in the marketplace

[16:14] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and we will persist the values in those

[16:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): in our databse

[16:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): *database

[16:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so when someone logs on from anywhere

[16:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): they will see what they last chose to see as far as content goes

[16:15] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): excellent

[16:15] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): wow

[16:15] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne) nods

[16:15] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): I'm guessing that's marked down for the update at the end of this month?

[16:15] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if they have nothing set, we will pull their viewer setting as a default

[16:16] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): that's what brodesky had on his backlog last fall, I'm glad that's still on the books

[16:16] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, but we are trying to get that in sooner

[16:16] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): Be nice if the checkboxes were easely accessible.. As you may have found out that people tend to not find or look for anything nor even notice big signs on the home page about it „ã° Ah syncing with viewer settings sounds good.

[16:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, on the filtering, this is something that we are looking at, and will be tweaking, but we will not take it away completely

[16:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i just want to be up front about that

[16:17] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): do you understand that this will create a system where merchants will identify the keywords and game their listings to get around it?

[16:17] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, we do

[16:18] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): they are ALREADY circulating notecards

[16:18] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but by gaming the system they also make their items harder to find

[16:18] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): I can't see why anyone would care that much, if customers who want to see Adult, can see adult

[16:18] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i.e. secks for sex

[16:18] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): this only makes things unfair for merchants who are trying to be honest and not play games

[16:18] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): they have had to resort to that because Adult has been hidden away

[16:18] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so we're working on making adult only items easier to search for

[16:18] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): by allowing people to only view adult items if they so choose

[16:19] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, to let you all know

[16:19] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm working on building up user groups

[16:19] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): but actively flagging and marking my pirate outfits and hats as moderate with no ability to change that back is ridiculous

[16:19] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): that will be rotating (i'll talk more about this thursday, in the middle of announcing office hours, atm)

[16:20] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): k

[16:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we're looking to have more parity with in world search on this

[16:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but this is just a last minute group--i'll be having other people contribute at the next one

[16:20] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): the problem with MP search is "red shoe" means red OR shoe

[16:20] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i am not playing favorites :)

[16:21] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): I have a boat with the word sex in keywords but it was marked general

[16:21] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): user groups, like European, US, etc?

[16:21] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): yeah but searching for wedding rings shows up also items that have nothing to do with wedding nor rings „ã° flagging those items only makes em go away for a short while till creator puts them back up.

[16:21] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): oh, and on the filtering, i've seen comments on the proposed grading system

[16:21] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): and there is a hard core sex boat in genereal too

[16:21] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): loads of more examples, haha

[16:22] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): that kind of thing is not trivial, but we will assess if something like that makes sense

[16:22] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I'd like to know how you guys are going to handle exceptions, and how soon that's going to get reviewed?

[16:22] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so, the cs reps are doing a pre-review for us

[16:22] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): are there likely to be any changes to some of the keywords that differentiate Moderate from Adult products?

[16:22] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and as they find issues they are passing the urls our way

[16:22] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): because active filtration sounds like something that will kill dakota and kimmora and anyone else doing CSR work, and as it is they're pretty strained

[16:23] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, they are

[16:23] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we're all quite busy, so we definitely don't want to add more work for any of us

[16:23] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we expect there to be a high load for this initial few weeks

[16:24] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and we are using input there to modify our filters and assess if there is indeed a bug in place

[16:24] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): such a shame this wasn't tested thoroughly beforehand, damballah would have shown most of these flaws

[16:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): yes, that is one of our lessons learned

[16:25] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): (damnballah?)

[16:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be presenting what we've got on our list on thursday

[16:25] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): deadlines and such i gues, pressure from above

[16:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and soliciting feedback from you all

[16:25] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): damballah is the other marketplace grid, we used while designing/testing the marketplace

[16:25] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): damballah is a test server

[16:26] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): it runs separate from the main one, so magic boxes and regular business isn't affected if something doesn't work right

[16:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i want to make sure we do learn from this and make changes

[16:26] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): You will find most merchants pretty easy as long as there is communication such as this

[16:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if people are comfortable, i'm also happy to post this chat log

[16:26] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm going to send an update to the maturity thread

[16:26] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): yes

[16:26] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): yes, the more transparency the better

[16:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i completely agree

[16:27] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): yes to posting

[16:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): ok

[16:27] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): sure

[16:27] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): my real goal right now was to determine if people see any real concern with the fix we are working to push out this week

[16:28] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I think defaulting the over-18's to enable mature items is fine

[16:28] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): are there changes being made to the ridiculous keyword filters currently in place?

[16:28] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if there are no other comments on that, our dev team has that to work on and the work for replacing magic boxes

[16:28] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so the keyword filters are easily changeable

[16:29] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): From the forums, "Gor" seems to be one widely objected to

[16:29] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and i'll be taking input from our investigations on the submitted urls to address clear bugs

[16:29] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): gorean, for example, is not all sex products. those of us who make clothing that is popular with that community are getting hit hard

[16:29] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): and so do you want us to hold off on flagging items that are not in the right rating?

[16:29] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman) nods, replacing magic boxes meaning guaranteed item delivery's and if people claim they didnt get the item we can send them over to you guys right? „ã°

[16:30] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so i think it make sense to extend the deadline--i will indicate on the thread

[16:30] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and, trust me, a roll out plan is key with magic boxes

[16:30] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): but what about the items we can't fix?

[16:30] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we're talking about an opt in kind of thing

[16:30] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): yeah, not really fair to start flagging items when it's not working correctly yet

[16:31] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): oh goody opt in

[16:31] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): no promises that this is exactly how it will work

[16:31] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): but we're discussing the best way to roll out

[16:32] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so items that can't be fixed, there is a bug fix going out tomorrow

[16:32] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): If feeback is solicited, should mitigate any howls of anguish

[16:32] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): with the removeal of magic boxes, do you have to drag other teams in like the viewer team to get it working?

[16:32] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): let's wait and see how the will help

[16:32] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): the dropbox folder tests we did last summer worked well, but that wasn't really under any load

[16:32] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so we still have some decisions to make about the new inventory delivery system

[16:33] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and this chat is focused on maturity :)

[16:33] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): are the magic boxes going to work next to the new delivery system at first? incase stuff doesnt work as expected?

[16:33] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman): ah nod, yeah sorry for offtopic „ã°

[16:33] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): no worries

[16:33] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): you said changing the keyword filtration was easy... what's the process and what's the timetable?

[16:33] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'm trying not to make this into an unannounced office hour

[16:33] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we can cover on thursday

[16:34] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): that's good, Brooke

[16:34] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): people will pick the hell out of every word

[16:34] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench) writes a list of topics for thursday

[16:34] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so the process involves reviewing items, identifying any key word that just doesn't make sense to be flagged, and then updating the filters

[16:34] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): timeline--it's not going to happen overnight

[16:35] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): as a merchant, how do I go about proposing changes/fixes?

[16:35] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'd expect to see changes coming in slowly (i.e. a few per week) over the next few weeks

[16:35] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): so far it doesn't look like anything has been done with the lists posted to WEB-3583 (took me over an hour to compile, too)

[16:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): please use JIRA

[16:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): dakota has been looking at it

[16:36] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): I did, and I'm asking when that will be actioned

[16:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): she just posted something before she went offline

[16:36] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so it's in progress

[16:36] Raven Pennyfeather (raven.pennyfeather): Sorry for being late here.. only just caught the email. Are we as of this time are we still unable to effect changes in the status of our changed listing ratings?

[16:37] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): raven, i'll post the chat log

[16:37] Raven Pennyfeather (raven.pennyfeather): thank you Brooke :)

[16:37] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): should answer yours and other people's questions

[16:37] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): ty

[16:37] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): it says thanks and we're looking at it, but no changes appear to have been made and there's no eta/timetable on when things will be reviewed

[16:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): the process is

[16:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): she finds urls that are issues

[16:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): she adds them to a bug for the dev team

[16:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): tomorrow i will have the dev team looking at this

[16:38] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): today they were working to get the release with the one fix ready to go out

[16:39] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): as, we believe this will help quite a few people

[16:39] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i will add that to the jira

[16:39] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): yeah, it's been needed for years

[16:40] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): so let's go for 5 more minutes

[16:40] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): and then i will work on getting a broader communication out

[16:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): are there other questions about schedule, etc?

[16:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): if there aren't more questions for today

[16:41] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): on maturity

[16:42] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be addressing more broadly in the user group meeting on thursday

[16:42] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): oh, and someone asked about the other way i'm using "user groups"

[16:42] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): these will be targeted users based upon data: number of transactions per month, gmv, etc

[16:43] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): we're looking to get a broad cross section

[16:43] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): uh oh

[16:43] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): oh okay

[16:43] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar) remembers having access to statistics

[16:43] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): not just the top people :)

[16:43] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): sigh, yes

[16:43] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): it's on the list

[16:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): well, i really appreciate you all taking some time to provide feedback

[16:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): i'll be posting this to the wiki and announcing the chat in my response to the forum posts

[16:44] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman) nods

[16:44] TriloByte Zanzibar (trilobyte.zanzibar): great

[16:44] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): thank you for the meeting

[16:44] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): no, thank you all

[16:44] Raven Pennyfeather (raven.pennyfeather): sounds good

[16:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): great

[16:45] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Yep. thanks Brooke, it's been enlightening

[16:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): okay, well hopefully i will see most of you on thursday

[16:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): now to go tweet it

[16:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): :)

[16:45] Brooke Linden (brooke.linden): bye!

[16:45] Pamela Galli (pamela.galli): bey!

[16:45] Raven Pennyfeather (raven.pennyfeather): ok have a good evening

[16:45] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): looking forward to the meeting on thursday

[16:45] Rya Nitely (rya.nitely): I hope it is at a good time for me

[16:45] Twistit Saiman (twistit.saiman) waves

[16:46] Jarnz Dench (jarnz.dench): next time, someone bring a mower for here, it's messy

[16:46] Iris Maskelyne (iris.maskelyne): Bye for now then. Thanks also to everyone else. Good to hear what's on other peoples' minds regarding these changes.