User:Darrius Gothly/Commerce Team Office Hours Session1 2009-12-15

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List of Attendees

  • Adamburp Adamczyk
  • Adams Scarmon
  • Adorabella Felisimo
  • Alexxa Despres
  • BlckCobra Shikami
  • Cherry Blossom
  • Ciaran Laval
  • Colossus Linden
  • CrashOV Uladstron
  • Darrius Gothly
  • Driff Beardmore
  • Driftwood Miles
  • Faust Vollmar
  • Forcing Ground
  • Grant Linden
  • Infinite Wonder
  • Isabelle Jules
  • JubJub Forder
  • Juliette Pashinin
  • KatieEllen Abeyante
  • Lion Valentino
  • Lizzie Gudkov
  • London Junkers
  • Lucille Violet
  • Lydi Lockhart
  • Magggnnus Woodget
  • Manha Teixeira
  • Marmottina Taurog
  • Master Crescendo
  • Mefo Elcar
  • Meta Linden
  • Mikhail Obscure
  • Miranda Kingmaker
  • paeoti Pomeray
  • Penny Raleigh
  • Persephone Loon
  • Pink Linden
  • Prince Dethly
  • Ramses Meredith
  • Riley Mensing
  • Rin Tae
  • Rivan Dressler
  • Rose Mackie
  • Saikiki Moriguchi
  • Sassy Romano
  • Scisslor Clip
  • Seaskye Ember
  • SherriBerry Paule
  • Shila Szondi
  • Siz Linden
  • Smoke Wijaya
  • Sphynx Soleil
  • SteinerDesigner Ur
  • Suella Ember
  • Taury Barbee
  • vittorio Plutonian
  • Wac Citron
  • Xugu Madison
  • You decline
  • Youri Ashton

Transcript

[09:47] SteinerDesigner Ur: : )
[09:47] SteinerDesigner Ur: sorry Mamottina, I'm having touble sitting, I didn't meant to bump into you
[09:51] Rose Mackie: Hi everyone ...
[09:51] Ramses Meredith: hello
[09:51] Forcing Ground Sit
[09:51] SteinerDesigner Ur: hi rose
[09:52] Darrius Gothly: Hello all.
[09:52] Mefo Elcar smiles and waves
[09:52] Darrius Gothly: Hello Siz.
[09:53] Siz Linden: Hi there
[09:53] SteinerDesigner Ur: HI Darrius, I think I remember reading your name in the SL forums
[09:53] SteinerDesigner Ur: nice to meet you
[09:53] Ramses Meredith: hello
[09:53] Sassy Romano: hi Siz
[09:54] Rose Mackie: whoops ... forgot my prefs were all maxed for building ... much better now
[09:54] Saikiki Moriguchi: hi all =)
[09:54] Siz Linden: hello Sassy
[09:54] Faust Vollmar: A firefighter av. Is that sposed to mean something? Haha kidding, kidding.
[09:55] Adams Scarmon: Hey Darrius
[09:55] Rose Mackie: rofl ... apropos?
[09:55] Mefo Elcar: hehe I was wondering about that
[09:55] Siz Linden: it helps after our releases ;-)
[09:55] Meta Linden keeps thinking with the big oxygen tank that Siz actually is dressed to go Scuba'ing *in* a big fire.
[09:55] Saikiki Moriguchi: brb
[09:56] Lizzie Gudkov: Hello everyone
[09:56] Alexxa Despres: Hi Lizzie
[09:56] Miranda Kingmaker waves at Lizzie
[09:56] Mefo Elcar: hey Lizzie
[09:56] Shila Szondi: hi
[09:56] Master Crescendo: hello all
[09:56] Shila Szondi: sorry if im stepping on people, trying to rezz in
[09:56] Ramses Meredith: hello
[09:57] SherriBerry Paule: Me too.
[09:57] London Junkers: hello
[09:57] SteinerDesigner Ur: brb
[09:57] Faust Vollmar: That horrible monster of a rabbit! Flee! (I know I didnt get the lines anywhere near right but I cant remember them off hand. XD Hi Pink.)
[09:57] Miranda Kingmaker: hello :)
[09:57] Darrius Gothly: Hello all .. yeah, I've posted once or twice in the forums.
[09:57] Magggnnus Woodget: hai
[09:57] Master Crescendo: i never have 1 fps before lol
[09:57] Lydi Lockhart looks back from her rl work and blinks at the number of people that are here now "Hello Everyone"
[09:57] Miranda Kingmaker: .
[09:57] Rose Mackie: I am a forum lurker
[09:57] Pink Linden: hello!
[09:58] Saikiki Moriguchi: bk
[09:58] Darrius Gothly: Hello Pink.
[09:58] Suella Ember: hey all
[09:58] Siz Linden: We have a nice crowd!
[09:58] CrashOV Uladstron: hello
[09:58] Rose Mackie: Greetings ya'll
[09:58] Miranda Kingmaker: hello :)
[09:58] Ramses Meredith: hello Pink
[09:58] Darrius Gothly: Hey Suella.
[09:58] SteinerDesigner Ur: back...hi Pink
[09:58] Suella Ember: strangely popular today! hehe
[09:58] Pink Linden: Hi Darrius, London, Faust, Adams, Saikiki,k Mefo, Rile, Steiner, Kira, Prince, Lin, Vittorio, Mikhail, Prince, Rose, Jazmyn, Driff, Marmottina, Sherriberry, Drifthwood
[09:58] Saikiki Moriguchi: =)
[09:58] Darrius Gothly: LOL
[09:58] Pink Linden: ::deep breath:::
[09:58] Shila Szondi: think all the rumours may have something to do with it
[09:58] Riley Mensing: Hello Pink
[09:58] Mefo Elcar: Hi Pink
[09:59] Mikhail Obscure: Hi))
[09:59] vittorio Plutonian: buona sera a tutti
[09:59] Adams Scarmon: Hi Pink.
[09:59] Driff Beardmore: hI pINK
[09:59] Marmottina Taurog: Hi all !
[09:59] Suella Ember: rumours? why - whats happening? (joke! lol)
[09:59] Shila Szondi: hi everyone
[09:59] Darrius Gothly rolls eyes .. LOL
[09:59] Rose Mackie: Our elven coffee hour today was on the Xstreet news
[09:59] Rin Tae: yes.. something must have drawn in the crowds ^^
[09:59] Scisslor Clip: hello everyone
[09:59] Scisslor Clip: merry xmas to all!
[09:59] Pink Linden: Record attendance!
[10:00] Sassy Romano: we heard that you were going to charge L$100 to list each item on xstreet, that's why there's the crowd Pink *grins ducks and runs*
[10:00] Suella Ember: whats the avatar limit here - 50?
[10:00] Miranda Kingmaker: it looks like 80 suella
[10:00] Smoke Wijaya: Merry crisis to you as well Scisslor.
[10:00] CrashOV Uladstron: wasnt that 99 for free items only? sassy
[10:00] Riley Mensing: There is also that whole scripts rumor thing going too
[10:00] Suella Ember: ahhh ok - could be a record then :)
[10:00] Meta Linden: we're set to a limit of 80 we should be OK
[10:00] Shila Szondi: and inventory controls
[10:01] Rose Mackie: unless we have to take off our hair that is, Meta
[10:01] London Junkers: whats next a pair of handcuffs?? O.O
[10:01] Suella Ember: all rumours and all not on the agenda ;) Im more interested in hearing about these proposed new additions to xstreet that are on the agenda (/me ducks and hides too!)
[10:01] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms OFF
[10:01] Meta Linden hangs on to my hair
[10:02] Pink Linden: Colossus will be here momentarily. it would be good if folks did manage their rendering costs so we can keep the experience good.
[10:02] Miranda Kingmaker checks her ARC
[10:02] Pink Linden: thanks Miranda
[10:02] Suella Ember: i can get naked if you like?
[10:02] Lydi Lockhart: I'm afraid to turn ARC on
[10:02] Suella Ember: lol
[10:02] Scisslor Clip: ahhh chat lag!
[10:02] SteinerDesigner Ur detaches everything not nailed down
[10:02] London Junkers: Thanks Sassy lol ;-)
[10:03] Scisslor Clip: nuuu not my 200 prim hair!!
[10:03] Sassy Romano points to the online stores for good graphics cards, yw London ;)
[10:03] Ramses Meredith thinks to have a low rendering cost and swallow slowly
[10:03] Miranda Kingmaker: be afraid Lydi.. its bad haha
[10:03] Faust Vollmar happened to be awake and at the keys for this one so might aswell attend, since hes 'sells' (read: gives away) exclusively on XStreet.
[10:03] Lydi Lockhart laughs warmly.
[10:03] Suella Ember: whatever it is that Meta is sitting on - i want one!
[10:04] Darrius Gothly: I'm with you Suella. I'd like to hear about the proposed new features .. first.
[10:04] Pink Linden: Thank you all so much for your time today to talk with us. It's most appreciated.
[10:04] Scisslor Clip: are we going to be using voice or regular chat?
[10:04] Sassy Romano: just derender everyone, we're only here for the chat anyway
[10:04] Rose Mackie: I do enjoy CTL-ALT-SHIFT 3, 8, and 0
[10:04] Pink Linden: we use regular chat Scisslor due to various languages
[10:04] Scisslor Clip: ah ok
[10:04] Suella Ember: chat seems to be relatively ok for me anyway thankfully
[10:04] Faust Vollmar: Easier to record aswell.
[10:04] Pink Linden: and it allows us tolog the chat for others to read
[10:04] Scisslor Clip: rose what to those buttons do, i just tried them
[10:04] London Junkers: better written to keep it for the records too
[10:04] Darrius Gothly: Same here .. managing.
[10:05] Master Crescendo: is discussion also in forums or only in here now?
[10:05] Pink Linden: HEllo persephone, Lizzy, Juliette, penny
[10:05] Persephone Loon: hallo pink et alia :)
[10:05] Meta Linden: I am recording text chat and will post it on the wiki after the meeting as usual on the wiki
[10:06] Darrius Gothly: Ty Meta.
[10:06] Pink Linden: Colossus is rezzing in
[10:06] Juliette Pashinin: Hello Pink :)
[10:06] Faust Vollmar: Look at the ground and Kyara will be just fine! Oh wait, this isn't Wurm.. Hahahaha.
[10:06] Pink Linden: someone tied him up and he can't move....:::snicker:::
[10:06] Adams Scarmon nods.
[10:06] Manha Teixeira: great, meta
[10:06] Sassy Romano: so heads up... nobody fart in chat
[10:06] Suella Ember: you know what i find interesting? the relative balance of normal viewer to Emerald viewer users here :)
[10:06] Persephone Loon: figured i needed to show "in pertson" to get my two cents in :-/
[10:06] Cherry Blossom Tree : Falling Blossoms OFF
[10:06] Rose Mackie: Turns off system trees, ground (not surface) and clouds, Scisslor ... less to render
[10:07] SteinerDesigner Ur: +1 Sassy
[10:07] Suella Ember: the problem is now my OCD is kicking in and im counting them as well as trying to read all the names to see if i recognise anyone! lol
[10:07] SteinerDesigner Ur: -1 chat lag
[10:07] Faust Vollmar: Ahahaha.
[10:07] Mefo Elcar chuckles
[10:08] Pink Linden: well you've all doubled our record for most avis at a commerce office hours
[10:08] Miranda Kingmaker: o/ yay
[10:08] Pink Linden: nicely done!
[10:08] SteinerDesigner Ur: YAY....umm is that good?
[10:08] Adams Scarmon shrugs
[10:09] Manha Teixeira: this is waht i call a MEETING
[10:09] Darrius Gothly: Hello Colossus.
[10:09] SteinerDesigner Ur: (kidding), it's the lag, sorry.
[10:09] Smoke Wijaya: That;s what you get when you unilaterally make big changes...Pink.
[10:09] Colossus Linden: Hello everyone. Thanks for coming
[10:09] Pink Linden: it sure is. we want many people to participate and give input so we can hear all sides.
[10:09] Master Crescendo: 18 million user and we are 80 people here, its good =)
[10:09] Rose Mackie: you could have offerred cookies instead of such an interesting topic
[10:09]
[10:09] Smoke Wijaya: Pink, you should ask people to participate and get inmput before you announce implementation of a rounded plan.
[10:09] Rin Tae: cookies would have been much better I think ^_^
[10:10] Colossus Linden: Sorry for the lag, but we're happy to see so many people here
[10:10] Darrius Gothly: Happy to be here, adding to the lag. ;)
[10:10] Faust Vollmar: Lets get this party started then? (Not literally oh god dont take that literally.)
[10:10] Miranda Kingmaker took off attachments except for hair
[10:10] Manha Teixeira: lol darrius
[10:11] Scisslor Clip: bye bye santa hat :(
[10:11] Colossus Linden: We've done a lot on policy changes in the last few office hours. Today, however, we're focusing on some redesign and feature efforts that will be coming to fruition soon
[10:12] Pink Linden: since we're late getting started with the lag, we'll stay a few mins after so you get the whole hour.
[10:12] Darrius Gothly: Ty Pink
[10:12] Colossus Linden: We have been listening and hearing request for features. We had a lot of integration tasks to tackle after the acquistion of Xstreet and we are now getting back to some of those front end features.
[10:12] Rin Tae: hehe.. use emerald .. despite all the people here, it is handling the situation fantastically
[10:12] Colossus Linden: Today, we are going to talk about 3 of them
[10:13] Miranda Kingmaker listens
[10:13] Mikhail Obscure: waits
[10:13] Colossus Linden: Agenda
[10:13] Rin Tae listens
[10:13] Darrius Gothly: Ahh .. added one.
[10:13] Manha Teixeira: shhhh let him talk
[10:14] Magggnnus Woodget is all ears
[10:15] Colossus Linden: I'm going to hand this over to Grant Linden who can tell you about our work toward a new homepage.
[10:15] Grant Linden: Hello everyone
[10:15] Miranda Kingmaker: hello Grant
[10:15] Darrius Gothly: Hello Grant.
[10:15] SteinerDesigner Ur: hi grant
[10:15] Grant Linden: We are working on a home page refresh that combines the best of the "marketplaces" page and the current home page. This page will highlight promotions as well as "departments".
[10:15] Shila Szondi: at what cost?
[10:15] Grant Linden: This is a light design refresh and not the end solution to the front door of the Marketplace.
[10:16] Grant Linden: the goal is to put the front door to work for the Merchants
[10:16] Lydi Lockhart: And make it user/shopper friendly I hope
[10:17] Mikhail Obscure: /learn from ebay and you'll have the solution
[10:17] Darrius Gothly: How many residents (merchants and customers) have had a chance to preview the new interim design?
[10:17] Rose Mackie: which merchants? the ones who pay the most? the oldest? the onew with the most product?
[10:17] Grant Linden: Currently the the Home page does not provide access to the various categories
[10:17] Smoke Wijaya: Why you state "Merchants with capital M?
[10:17] Smoke Wijaya: Are we talking about a special group>?
[10:17] Saikiki Moriguchi: i like the way amazon looks...i always tell ppl xstreet is the amazon of SL
[10:17] Riley Mensing: Guess this is what the new list fees is going to be paying for as well
[10:18] Colossus Linden: All Merchants Rose.
[10:18] London Junkers: Is the design of the website more important than the issues that havent been solved in it yet??
[10:18] Rin Tae: the look of the website .. even when it could need improvment .. is I think the last of SLX related worries
[10:18] Grant Linden: I have looked at Amazon as well as other leading retail portals
[10:18] Shila Szondi: The new list fees have drove many from slx to the other marketplace
[10:18] Rose Mackie: Thnx Col
[10:19] Colossus Linden: Hey Folks, sorry, I should ahve given this with Grant's intro. Why don't we let grand finish his description and then we can take questions
[10:19] Adams Scarmon: fair enough.
[10:20] Grant Linden: At this time I don't have any visuals to share. When we do I can gather more feedback.
[10:20] Pink Linden: I will post them to Pink Linden's flickr stream once we do
[10:20] Pink Linden: and then we can have commentary and questions in the commerce forums
[10:21] Grant Linden: I would like to stress that our goal is to be rolling out improvements on an ongoing basis and I don't want anyone to feel that there is a missed opportunity once a design is circulated for review.
[10:22] Lydi Lockhart: I think it's safe to assume that few have seen the preview.. I'm not even sure where it would be located, so perhaps more have seen it and just don't realize it?
[10:22] Suella Ember: there is no preview yet Lydi!
[10:22] Grant Linden: Colossus has reached out via the forums for various "tags" that might be helpful to highlight - like stampunk, tiny, Neko and such
[10:22] Youri Ashton: commerce forums seem to be used to only get good reviews and not taken any notes of angry people. these just get either deleted or banned from that specific forum
[10:23] Lydi Lockhart: Grant asked who had had a chance to preview it.. so it's out there somewhere, right?
[10:23] Darrius Gothly: (Pink, Colossus .. can you include a catalog of tags mentioned and links from this meeting in the transcripts?)
[10:23] Grant Linden: it is not released in any form, no
[10:23] Youri Ashton: why is this? isnt it freedom of speech? isnt it good to let LL know how people feel about something?
[10:23] Rose Mackie: Will we have to subscribe to the flicker streams or will these be available within a Linden or SL environment
[10:24] Adams Scarmon: Thats why you are here Youri...
[10:24] Pink Linden: (here's a link to Pink Linden's flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pink_linden/
[10:24] Colossus Linden: Darrius, you mean tag suggestions from this meeting?
[10:24] Pink Linden: once we have designs to show, we will put them there and link bck to the discussion forum for comments
[10:24] Rose Mackie: have to subscribe to keep updated?
[10:24] Rin Tae: the forums are full of angry people .. especialyl now .. and many of those rise valid points and offer well thought out ideas .. so disregardign this impot is not the best way to take
[10:25] Darrius Gothly: Yes .. and where forums posts are mentioned, if we can get a table of those. I've been a bit busy and haven't seen your request for Tags in the forums Colossus.
[10:25] Adams Scarmon: angry people with a very good reason to feel angry..
[10:25] London Junkers: why are we talking here about something that doesnt even exist when there is a bigger issue you created on your last office hour??
[10:25] Suella Ember: it was from a while back Darrius
[10:25] Taury Barbee: not to be rude but im sure most of us are here about the big changes on xstreet not about the homepage redesign
[10:25] Riley Mensing: Indeed, a very very good reason to be angry
[10:25] Pink Linden: Let's stay on topic folks. Our groundrules here are that we stick to topic unless entire room wants to change the subject.
[10:25] Darrius Gothly: Ahh .. *nods* Ty Suella.
[10:25] Rose Mackie: I call for a vote
[10:25] Youri Ashton: i been working my ... off for LL and the residents for several months now, i dont ask anything really besides some respect. Instead LL seems to be taking more and more. I personally agree with all those angry people that the new rules aint fair. specially for those that are helping so much. its a slap in the face. can you, as xstreet team, see this point?
[10:26] Grant Linden: We will post visuals for feedback and take suggestions from all of you.
[10:26] Pink Linden: are there any questions for Grant on the new home page design?
[10:26] Suella Ember: can we please stop being silly? i want to actually hear about what is on the agenda!
[10:26] Adams Scarmon: London does have a point though..
[10:26] Colossus Linden: Thanks Grant for a great description of where we are at and what our goals are
[10:26] Manha Teixeira: yeah, like mentors...they were helping us learn SL (and making business for LL) and now we don't have mentors :(
[10:26] Ciaran Laval: Grant what sort of new fucntionality will we expect to see?
[10:26] Suella Ember: i have a question - you mentioned "departments" - what do you actually mean by that?
[10:27] Sassy Romano: ***** Question for Grant on the homepage: How will it present parity for merchants of adult content? *********
[10:27] Saikiki Moriguchi: will there be n option to remember passwords on the new homw page?
[10:27] Youri Ashton: sorry pink, i been so busy with work for LL that i did not have the time to protest myself, please just dont try to take that away from me as well like the xstreet team took my xstreet store along with everyone elses. i only want answers, not trouble for either party
[10:27] Magggnnus Woodget seconds Suella's department question
[10:27] Lydi Lockhart: hmm Will there be a preview where we can look and make suggestions?
[10:27] Darrius Gothly: Thirds Suella's question.
[10:27] Grant Linden: currently in the category navigation we highlight a top level list of items. We will be highlighting those on the home page.
[10:27] Colossus Linden: I'd like to re-emphasize what Grant said. The site design for Xstreet will be an ever evolving process which we will always look to improve. Grant has described the focus of this homepage redesign and I'd like to stay focused on questions about what he described
[10:27] Mefo Elcar: Lydi, scroll up for Pink Linden's Flickr Stream
[10:27] Adams Scarmon: So its basically an extra feature? For example you pay lets say... 5000L$ to get a nice spot on the SL homepage? Did I put it right that way?
[10:27] Xugu Madison: Departments sound like they're going to amount to "Style" (as opposed to the current breakdown by type). Wouldn't tagging be the long-term solution though?
[10:28] Master Crescendo: Why is there so much talk about trying to migrate and merge the layout from the old website instead of writing a widget with JDBC that inherit both user credentials and account information and share it with secondlife.com, the blog and marketplace, instead of three diffrent systems that are not designed to work together?
[10:28] Lydi Lockhart: thanks Mefo
[10:28] Rose Mackie: Is there a meeting moderator we can send questions to?
[10:29] Pink Linden: ros, go ahead and send to me
[10:29] Colossus Linden: Thanks Pink
[10:29] Pink Linden: I can also make sure we add to a list for follow up
[10:29] Rose Mackie: Great
[10:29] Pink Linden: fire away! good idea!
[10:29] Youri Ashton: collossus: as i said to Infinity Linden, if the xstreet team continues with these rules, it will take down xstreet. but not only stop there, it will also do so with SL itself, since its griefing against SL harder then any griefer ever did. Making these new rules not well thought trough at all
[10:29] Xugu Madison: Master, because the logistics of a complete re-write of the UI of all three, given the number of users, would be... unimaginable
[10:30] Shila Szondi: since it has to be a majority to have a topic included, how many here are here to find out about fees versus a new design
[10:30] Suella Ember: thats your opinion Youri - not mine
[10:30] Pink Linden: folks, pls stay on topic
[10:30] Riley Mensing: i am more interested in the fees information honestly then redesign
[10:30] Taury Barbee: i am here for the fees Shila
[10:30] Youri Ashton: If these new rules continue to excist, i will promise you that it will destroy everything within 5 years
[10:30] Pink Linden: questions for Grant?
[10:30] Adams Scarmon: So its basically an extra feature? For example you pay lets say... 5000L$ to get a nice spot on the SL homepage? Did I put it right that way?
[10:30] Penny Raleigh: Well said Riley
[10:30] Colossus Linden: Folks who are interested in subjects which are not on this weeks agenda are welcome to fire me instant messages or notecards, but please keep the local chat for this meeting to the topics at hand. Thanks
[10:31] Riley Mensing: cause I am just waiting til those new fees come onto xstreet before I quit xstreet *goes quiet now*
[10:31] Pink Linden: you may also IM me as well for off topic issues
[10:31] London Junkers: I vote for fees too
[10:31] Darrius Gothly: Grant? Trying to get the nuances of the new design thru this style chat is impossible. Will we be able to preview the design before it becomes active/official?
[10:31] Rin Tae: fees are of bigger interest for sure
[10:31] Pink Linden: Sassy asked a good question about the new home page and adult content
[10:32] Lizzie Gudkov: Fees as well. (chat lag...)
[10:32] Pink Linden: sassy, started to discuss this in last office hours but we are not done and need to have more on the subject. will talk to you in IM
[10:32] Mefo Elcar: Darrius, scroll up for Pink's Flickr stream link
[10:32] Mefo Elcar chuckles
[10:32] Grant Linden: I can post a visual for review and feedback before we begin to develop the page, yes.
[10:32] Youri Ashton: i tried to im you pink, you just ignore everything, sorry to say. but i find that personally rude ever though I went trough Infinity
[10:32] Lydi Lockhart: I'm actually interested in both, but today's topic is the webpage isn't it? Can we talk about what is going to be done about improving the search results?
[10:32] Suella Ember: @ Grant - there was a link to Pinks Flickr stream where the preview will be pited earlier in chat
[10:32] Xugu Madison would suggest an alternative "adult content" front page for people who are looking for that sort of thing....
[10:32] Adams Scarmon: .. 3rd time : So its basically an extra feature? For example you pay lets say... 5000L$ to get a nice spot on the SL homepage? Did I put it right that way?
[10:32] Suella Ember: sorry - @ darrius!
[10:32] London Junkers: In the agenda you said "wishlists" I wish we could talk about fees which is a bit more important than the look a a website!!
[10:32] Grant Linden: I am also interested in residents providing me with examples of retail destinations they find useful.
[10:33] Taury Barbee: i second London
[10:33] Mikhail Obscure: EBAY !
[10:33] Ciaran Laval: Wrong sort of wishlist London, they're talking about wishlists for people to buy stuff from
[10:33] Colossus Linden: Good suggestion Xugu, I'm not sure that it will fit into the scope of this first redesign, but I'm puttin that suggestion on the list. Thanks
[10:33] Master Crescendo: you have a massive community with many professionals in all sorts of fields, use your community Linden and get our help to get where you want
[10:33] Darrius Gothly: I understand about "static screenshots". But i think such new things as Departments will only make sense "live". So I'm wondering about a live preview.
[10:33] Lizzie Gudkov seconds London and wishes time will not fly by and tht topic ends up not being discussed. Now going back to silence and waiting patiently.
[10:33] Rin Tae: but if there is a separate adult section, then there needs to be a clearly visible button right on the home page that leds there .. so the merchants there are not on a disadvantage and customers find thier products quickly
[10:33] Suella Ember: ahhh ok - i see your point Darrius
[10:33] SteinerDesigner Ur: Apple.com has a nice on-line store, Grant
[10:33] Colossus Linden: Hey Adams, what are you asking about? Sorry, I'm unclear on the question
[10:33] Adamburp Adamczyk: me? nothing
[10:34] Adamburp Adamczyk: i din; post a qustion
[10:34] Adamburp Adamczyk: didn't post a question*
[10:34] Mikhail Obscure: No one looks at ebays front page, why should they - they are there to sell and shop not browse 100's of paid for promotions)
[10:34] Driftwood Miles: Onrez was pretty cool to :)
[10:34] Adams Scarmon: Well Colossus, right now you have these different enchantments that help you advertising your items. Will this be another enchantment?
[10:34] Grant Linden: For passwords on the home page - the first step will be one password for forums and Xstreet.
[10:34] Darrius Gothly: Yay @ one password
[10:34] Suella Ember: i think from what i understand its a redesign of the homepage that everyone will see Admas - so why would there be a fee?!
[10:35] Colossus Linden: Thanks Rin. We do want to find a way to better expose the availability of adult goods to those shoppers who are interested
[10:35] Suella Ember: its not an enhancement for individual merchants
[10:35] SteinerDesigner Ur: one password is a GOOD thing, that was kinda driving me nuts to keep re-logging for different sections
[10:35] Adams Scarmon: Well Suella there will be items displayed, I dont think those items will be displayed for free...
[10:35] Pink Linden: and we are working on a single sign on across all LL properties, no exact date yet but we're making progress. moving to a new co lo facility this past december was part of it.
[10:35] Saikiki Moriguchi: that sounds awesome...about the passwords =)
[10:35] Mikhail Obscure: Winterfest spotlight takes too long to browse, laggy
[10:35] Colossus Linden: Adams, we need to assess the enhancements as a whole
[10:35] Colossus Linden: I've gotten feedback that they don't facilitate all types of items
[10:35] Suella Ember: yes - but thats the normal hompage enhancements feature as now
[10:35] CrashOV Uladstron: if you're going to make page changes, how about make the forums in the blogs area more obvious and do something about the xstreet messages, because right now without my email notification i wouldnt know i have a message
[10:36] Rin Tae: however right now .. compared with the competition, then SLX needs to catch up a lot to offer a similar level of service and possibilites ... and they don'T even take listing fees ^^
[10:36] Colossus Linden: For now, what are currently homepage featured enhancements will be the enhancements on this new homepage
[10:36] Mikhail Obscure: seconds crash
[10:36] Pink Linden: ok, any more questons for Grant we haven't answered?
[10:36] Penny Raleigh: Do I get this right, here are no bare bones designs not even sketches we could look at? The sooner you take the users onboard the greater your chance of making it work.
[10:36] Riley Mensing: I just have one more thing to add, this talk of the other features just feel like they are a distraction to us from the other issues people are really concerned about
[10:36] Pink Linden: with all the chat we may have missed you, it wasn't on purpose. IM me and we'll get it answered.
[10:36] Darrius Gothly: Agree @ Penny
[10:36] Colossus Linden: So, everything will basically stay the same. In the long run, we hope to provide more levels of enhancements and advertising opportunity so that we can better enable a wider range of merchants and products
[10:36] Suella Ember: can we have a description of what you mean by "depeartments" please?
[10:37] Ciaran Laval: Agreed Riley but the website part was tagged on after the initial announcement to be fair
[10:37] Suella Ember: pepartments*
[10:37] Darrius Gothly: Yes Pink .. please. Descriptions of these new terms .. Departments etc.
[10:37] Suella Ember: darn it!
[10:37] Suella Ember: lol
[10:37] Rin Tae: what is done for the customer? .. there is lots of talk about merchants, but te word 'customer' was not mentioned even once as far as I can tell
[10:37] Suella Ember: what darrius said :)
[10:37] Colossus Linden: As a note, we'll spend a few more minutes on this and then move on to the other two topics
[10:37] London Junkers: I would like to get one thing clear I thought we were going to talk about something different and more relevant here today please dont use my name to say that I agree and because of my attendance here all SL residents will have to deal with your decissions
[10:37] Mefo Elcar: yes, a description of Departments
[10:37] Adorabella Felisimo: what is the difference between favorites & wishlist?
[10:37] Cherry Blossom Tree : Falling Blossoms ON
[10:37] Cherry Blossom Tree : Falling Blossoms OFF
[10:37] Pink Linden: last question is fro darrius and suella about departments
[10:37] Pink Linden: then we will move on to the next topic
[10:37] Colossus Linden: Suella, can you type in the line where grant referenced departments to refresh my memory?
[10:37] Grant Linden: currently in the category navigation we highlight a top level list of items. We will be highlighting those on the home page - I used the word "departments" but we may not be usng that word.
[10:38] Saikiki Moriguchi: will the wish list be in our in-world profile or only on xstreet?
[10:38] Suella Ember: ahhh ok - so the current top level categories like "apparel" etc right?
[10:38] Grant Linden: that is correct
[10:38] Lydi Lockhart: I would think the difference is one is visable to only you and the other is searchable by others that know your name and are shopping for something you might like to have
[10:38] Darrius Gothly nods .. Gotcha.
[10:38] Suella Ember: k - thanks for clarifying
[10:38] Colossus Linden: Rin Tae, with the new design, we hope to make it easier for shoppers to find what they are looking for
[10:38] Pink Linden: ok Let's move on to the nex stopic
[10:38] Pink Linden: Wishlists!
[10:38] Mikhail Obscure: no need for that grant, let that appear after the item is typed into search, again like ebay
[10:38] Pink Linden: just in time for the holidays!
[10:38] Lydi Lockhart: Will the wishlist update, if someone has purchased something off of it?
[10:38] Colossus Linden: This, in turn, aids the merchants. Anything we do should serve both
[10:39] Pink Linden: again, if you have unanswered questions, let me know
[10:39] Taury Barbee: it does not if you purchase within there
[10:39] Mefo Elcar: are wishlists like the existing favourite list, except visible to other people?
[10:39] Mikhail Obscure: why select trees catagory when what you search for may be in 2 or more departments
[10:39] Suella Ember: i wish i culd read paster :)
[10:39] SteinerDesigner Ur: wishlists are like "gift registries", right?
[10:39] Colossus Linden: Alright folks. I'm glad to see a lot of suggestions around this topic
[10:39] Suella Ember: ha! i wish i could type better too!
[10:39] Riley Mensing: honestly one thing that would help with low priced items since you had said Pink pay pal was costing you guys a lot is if you added a shopping cart and people who use paypal had to spend a certain amount
[10:39] Rose Mackie: Shall we send them to Pink to direct?
[10:39] Colossus Linden: As we've said, once we have some visuals, we will release them and ask for some more feedback
[10:39] Colossus Linden: Thanks for what you've given us so far
[10:40] Colossus Linden: Also, feel free to attend the other 2 sessions today and see what other questions come up and get answered
[10:41] Colossus Linden: Wishlists is our next topic
[10:41] Master Crescendo: adding an extra db field for items where keywords can be added would improve any boleean search that are done and quicker customer find exact item instead of 1000 unrelevant listings
[10:41] Colossus Linden: I'm going to give you all a description of where we are headed. Then we'll open up for questions.
[10:42] Youri Ashton: collossus, IM
[10:42] Pink Linden: (I'm in IM now answering questions. please be patient and I will get to your questions)
[10:42] Colossus Linden: For those of you IM'ing me, I will get to your questions after the meeting. I have to focus on the meeting right now. Thanks
[10:43] Colossus Linden: So, we've gotten a lot of request to add wishlist functionality over the last year and we're finally getting around to it.
[10:43] Rin Tae: it might actually help if the questions answered in IM are also posted with the chat log (if those asking the questions agree of course)
[10:44] Lizzie Gudkov agrees with Rin
[10:44] Colossus Linden: We've got a project which is split into a few phases. The ultimate goal is to give our shoppers the ability to add items to a publicly viewable wishlists
[10:44] Colossus Linden: To allow them to share that wishlist
[10:44] Taury Barbee: welp ill be back when you all decide to address the real issues of xstreet instead of things that dont really make a huge difference in our SL lives
[10:44] London Junkers: I agree too and have sent a question to pink
[10:44] Adams Scarmon: I do have a question then.. How does Linden Lab respond to all the negative feedback and delisting of items on XstreetSL? Is it part of a plan, or is the Lab worried ?
[10:44] Colossus Linden: To allow users to search for a friends wishlist and purchase items off of it
[10:45] CrashOV Uladstron: when will you have a meeting about the fees? if not today then when? seems like it's the most important problem for everyone right now, would be only fair to have a meeting on the topic
[10:45] Lion Valentino thinks may have to have an adult wishlist as well in SL lol
[10:45] Youri Ashton: oh, yes im different from most of you, i have autism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum) still have 1 test to go to get final conclusion tho, which is ADD/ADHD part
[10:45] Colossus Linden: As a first phase, which we will be launching soon, we have created a shop on Facebook as a widget within our Second Life fan page
[10:45] Lydi Lockhart: I would like to know if there is going to be a way to track what has been purchased off your wishlist so you odn't get more then one of the same thing
[10:46] Colossus Linden: This shop will have all active, non-adult items from Xstreet SL (Sorry, we can't place adult items up there) and has some limited wishlist functionality
[10:46] Faust Vollmar: If things you buy off your own favorites are auto-removed, I don't see why that wouldn't apply to wishlists.
[10:46] Colossus Linden: We have pushed in this direction because it allows us to get some simple wishlists in place before the holidays
[10:46] Miranda Kingmaker: does this wishlist come with a truly functioning search feature? what good does creating a wishlist do if it cant be properly searched?
[10:46] Suella Ember: @ Faust - im assuming it will work like that too
[10:46] Mefo Elcar: auto remove of favourites is hit and miss I've found
[10:46] Ciaran Laval: Facebook has its own issues already with fan pages and privacy, is that the wisest partner?
[10:46] Adams Scarmon: I could be wrong of course - but is a wishlist really the most important problem we are currently facing regarding XstreetSL?
[10:47] Lydi Lockhart: what if they are purchased in world vs on xstreet? I like to shop on xstreet but I purchase mainly in world
[10:47] Colossus Linden: Here, users will be able to browse items just as they can on Xstreet. But, they can also add those to a wishlist
[10:47] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms ON
[10:47] Sassy Romano: I don't see why it can't have adult items, if the person viewing has already accepted and confirmed that they are eligible to view adult. This is bias against adult content vendors again. NOT good.
[10:47] Colossus Linden: And will be able to share that wishlist with friends.
[10:47] Cherry Blossom Tree : Falling Blossoms ON
[10:47] Adams Scarmon: Yes Sassy, it would again hurt the merchants that are producing Adult content.
[10:47] SherriBerry Paule: I cannot fathom why wish lists are needed at all.
[10:47] Riley Mensing: I agree with Sassy to that too
[10:48] Adorabella Felisimo: that would be the same as sharing CLUTTER?
[10:48] Colossus Linden: Anything that a shopper purchases off of a wishlist, they will have to mark as purchased
[10:48] Colossus Linden: In Q1, we will take this a step further with some key wishlist integration features
[10:48] Rin Tae: I am not rally convinced, that somethign liek a wishlist should be on the agenda right now ..some side project sure .. but there are still more important things to solve
[10:48] Colossus Linden: We'll allow a user to add an item to their wishlist from the detail page on Xstreet.
[10:48] CrashOV Uladstron: and totaly ignored it seems
[10:48] Saikiki Moriguchi: is there going to be an option to see wishlist in-world on our profiles?
[10:48] Miranda Kingmaker: can you see it now? "hi, im getting partnered... again.. and heres a link to buy me the things i want.. kthnx"
[10:49] Lion Valentino: A Question, what will prevent a merchant from placing their own merchandise on their wishlist, just as a promotion of their items, so its viewed publicly?
[10:49] Colossus Linden: And, we'll tie into the Xstreet purchase process so that when a friend buys an item off of your wishlist, it is automatically removed from your wishlist
[10:49] Mikhail Obscure: wishlist - sonds like items wanted, sily name
[10:49] paeoti Pomeray: lol Miranda
[10:49] Manha Teixeira: lol miranda
[10:49] Riley Mensing: wishlist just seems like another version of favorites only others can view
[10:49] Ciaran Laval: That bouncy boobs feature in the Emerald viewer is sure to be a wishlist advertisement
[10:49] Mefo Elcar: lol
[10:49] Colossus Linden: That is a quick overview of the initial phases of the wishlist feature. I'll now open up to questions
[10:49] Sassy Romano: Why no adult content on the wishlist?
[10:50] Adams Scarmon: A wishlist is a very nice new ability, but what about the costs to host the lists? ISnt the goal to bring the costs down? xD
[10:50] Colossus Linden: Riley, you are pretty accurate. Favorites are private and for you.
[10:50] Colossus Linden: Wishlists are public. The intention is to share them
[10:50] Suella Ember: just to clarify - manual removal if someone buys something off a person's wishlist at first, then later next year automatic removal right?
[10:50] Manha Teixeira: For Xmas I want 1. pair of dragon wings, 2. replacement teeth, 3. bloood fountain (it's an example ok?? NOT ME) LOL
[10:50] Lydi Lockhart: ** Question: what if they are purchased in world vs on xstreet? I like to shop on xstreet but I purchase mainly in world
[10:50] SherriBerry Paule: As Ebays wishlist feature is a waste of time.
[10:50] Adorabella Felisimo: doesn't the wishlist create clutter?
[10:50] Miranda Kingmaker: will this wishlis come withimproved search features? what good is telling someone to look my "greedy list" up if they cant find it easlily?
[10:50] Youri Ashton: i rather keep things in my wishlist, i dont place them in there withou a reason :p
[10:50] Master Crescendo: I agree also, most customer shop for their need then move on, very small % take time to mark wishlist i dont se ehow that can improve shopping experience also if only PG material is there and use facebook it will be much work for Linden for no result
[10:50] Colossus Linden: Suella, that is correct
[10:50] Suella Ember: k thanks
[10:50] Youri Ashton: cant it be a switch? on/off ?
[10:50] paeoti Pomeray: Colossus, by NOT listing ADULT content on the wish list, you are discriminating against those who create adult content. That is illegal even in this world.
[10:51] Colossus Linden: I see that Manha has already started on a list
[10:51] JubJub Forder: Have you considered getting feedback/vote from XStreet users as to the value of this wishlist feature? IMHO i thnik the dvelopment time could be bettrer spent on other things
[10:51] Faust Vollmar: Perhaps a better approach would be to allow someone to mark parts of thier favorites list as viewable or hidden...
[10:51] Adams Scarmon: You force us to remove our freebies and now you fill up the free space with a stupid wishlist that probably nobody is ever going to use often? .... great.
[10:51] Manha Teixeira: lol colossus..it's an EXAMPLE lol
[10:51] Colossus Linden: For now, we can only tie into the Xstreet purchase process. I agree Lydi, down the road we would like to tie into the in-world purchase process as well
[10:51] Manha Teixeira: <--- not a vampire
[10:51] Riley Mensing: Why is wishlists so important right now?
[10:51] SherriBerry Paule: Not everyone wants a facebook account.
[10:51] Darrius Gothly: Excellent idea Faust. A "Copy to Wishlist" feature under Favorites.
[10:51] You decline Club Falling Waters, Oathkeeper (41, 112, 2002) from A group member named Euterpe Aluveaux.
[10:52] Youri Ashton: dont remove anything in the wish list by default! its not nice!
[10:52] Colossus Linden: SherriBerri, why is ebay's wishlist feature a waste of time? If we know why you don't like that, it may help us in our designs
[10:52] Rose Mackie: What if one doesn't wish to use add-ons like facebook? Do the plans include making things like the wishlist function inworld?
[10:52] Youri Ashton: people dont take that long to loose it
[10:52] Youri Ashton: counts also for adult material
[10:52] Mefo Elcar: it does seem to fly against the logic of 'removing clutter' to add a non essential function like this
[10:52] Colossus Linden: Adorabella, why would you say that? A wishlist should help create more sales for merchants and allow shoppers to get the gifts they want
[10:52] Ciaran Laval: Colossus people are complaining about facebook sharing their fan pages with everyone, is this facebook link going to be a permanent link?
[10:52] Adams Scarmon: Wishlists will be full of clutter, and I dont think many people will buy each other nice items from their wishlists..
[10:52] Miranda Kingmaker: Will the "wishlist" come with improved search features? What good is it if ppl cant actually search for it? and why piggy back that to Facebook? not eveyrone is part of that noise
[10:53] Shila Szondi: sorry im not taking on a facebook account to use slx
[10:53] SherriBerry Paule: I use favorites for an easier quick link to creators I have searched on previously.
[10:53] vittorio Plutonian agrees
[10:53] Rose Mackie: agreess with shila and sherri
[10:53] Riley Mensing: It just seems like in the scale of the bigger picture, a wishlist right now seems to be not as useful or important to what we really need right now
[10:53] Colossus Linden: Master, in Q1, we'll examing users being able to add adult items to their wishlist
[10:53] JubJub Forder: i agree riley
[10:53] Youri Ashton: i suggest that ONLY the residents that are verified can use adult material searches. then you wont have to mess witht he list at all
[10:53] Lydi Lockhart: ** Question/suggestion - Could you add a feature that allows the purchaser to click that they have purchased the item off the wishlist - and that item would then be flagged with something like "May have been purchased already" Or "Purchase pending" Or something like that
[10:53] Rose Mackie: this seems like "make work" for LL programers
[10:54] CrashOV Uladstron: dont see why the facebook thing, I dont have one and never will
[10:54] JubJub Forder: What processes have been used to determine wishlists are important?
[10:54] Miranda Kingmaker: nor will I Crash
[10:54] vittorio Plutonian agrees @crashov
[10:54] Colossus Linden: Paoeoti, we are not trying to discriminate against adult items. There are legal restrictions around adult items that we can not always avoid. It takes extra engineering effort sometimes to enable adult items and we do wish to enable our adult merchants.
[10:54] Riley Mensing: My facebook is such a junk mail thing, I don't even use it
[10:54] Colossus Linden: They are very important
[10:54] Suella Ember: the facebook thing is interim right? or have i misunderstood?
[10:54] Adorabella Felisimo: Coloussos, it just seems silly to me and it will become just another thing for people to game
[10:55] Shila Szondi: wishlists arent going to help, many merchants have already moved to Meta life and will continue to do so unless the real problems that the customers of slx are addressed
[10:55] Colossus Linden: I know we haven't gotten to all of your questions, but we are running late and I do want to quickly talk about search and another ongoing feature which was not on the agenda
[10:55] Mikhail Obscure: This is the usual linden process of announcing pre decided changes and seeking approval from a small group before releasing it?
[10:55] Riley Mensing: Wishlists will get abused too, it's just how the world works, people will always find a way to extort something
[10:55] Youri Ashton: it sure looks like discriminating against adult material, but oh well. nm that. just make the entire adult side for verified users ONLY
[10:55] Adams Scarmon: With all due respect, this wishlist is a nice idea, however i feel we should discuss the more impotant issues first..
[10:55] Rin Tae: not only metLIFE .. the other sites are expereinceing a massive growth of listings and sales as well
[10:55] Faust Vollmar: Uh oh someones about to get the OH equivalent of a radio flushing for mentioning a product competing with SL.
[10:55] Miranda Kingmaker: but to avoid having adult content included immediately, since this sounds like its going to happen regardless, discriminates against adult content creators
[10:55] Faust Vollmar: Er LL.
[10:55] Youri Ashton: then you wont have to mess with the wishlist
[10:55] Manha Teixeira: better than eliminating freebies, eliminate DEMOs from xstreet
[10:55] Riley Mensing: I agree with Adams
[10:55] London Junkers: I DONT approve!!
[10:55] Ciaran Laval: Facebook have raised serious privacy concerns this last week, you really want to tread carefully with this
[10:56] Rose Mackie: It seems many of the people here do not support 1)expenditure of LL resources on a wishlist while other more pressing items are pending and 2) don't want Facebook
[10:56] SherriBerry Paule: Metalife has it's problems too. Searching for anything is impossible currently.
[10:56] paeoti Pomeray: I thought thats what the dislaimer was for. That IS what is is for .. Correct? A Notice 2 times to verifiy that you understand that you are accessing an adult area. Adult content creators should have the same rights as non-adult content creators (and no, I dont create that much that applies towards adult).
[10:56] JubJub Forder: Agreed Rose
[10:56] Colossus Linden: Alright, Search changes
[10:56] Riley Mensing: I would be all happy for a wishlist AFTER the fee list issues are taken care of and actually listened to since about 75 % of the grid is against them most likely
[10:56] Adams Scarmon: Hello katie.
[10:56] Riley Mensing: chat lag...
[10:56] Darrius Gothly: Colossus .. forgive me if I missed it but .. Will Facebook accounts be needed to use the new Wishlist? I don't and won't open one for many non-LL/SL related reasons.
[10:56] Adams Scarmon: correct
[10:56] Colossus Linden: We just announced our that there will be a small release on 12/16/2009 and it will include a search improvement
[10:57] Youri Ashton: i want to keep my facebook private! and NO i do not go make another one just for this!
[10:57] Xugu Madison waves "I like the wishlist idea...."
[10:57] Colossus Linden: We have gotten a lot of user requests for search improvements and this is just a start
[10:57] KatieEllen Abeyante: hey Adams
[10:57] Rose Mackie: so if we listen to the people who actually take the time to come to the meetings ... it follows .... postpone wishlist and nix facebook
[10:57] Colossus Linden: Users have informed us that the results are not always relevant especially when searching on multiple keywords
[10:57] Mikhail Obscure: Search Colossus?
[10:57] Colossus Linden: The old search algorithm returned all results that included even one of the keywords
[10:57] Lydi Lockhart: I so Agree with that Colossus
[10:57] CrashOV Uladstron: more like never
[10:57] Shila Szondi: yes nix facebook
[10:58] Rin Tae: if someone would have taken care of the keyword spam after it was said to be on the agenda ....
[10:58] vittorio Plutonian agrees @ shila
[10:58] Miranda Kingmaker hates teh facebook idea.. a huge waste of time
[10:58] CrashOV Uladstron: why not do it like google and allow to put in " " for an exact hrase
[10:58] CrashOV Uladstron: that would help
[10:58] Manha Teixeira: facebook would complicate things it hink
[10:58] Colossus Linden: Our new algorithm will only require a listing to match over half of the keywords entered
[10:58] Magggnnus Woodget: including everything is alright - the order in which results are returned has to be relevant ..
[10:58] Rin Tae: the search indeed is one of the really pressing SLX issues
[10:58] Adams Scarmon: Correct
[10:58] Youri Ashton: improvement is NOT hiding every bit of adult material! its just discriminating against it instead!
[10:58] Rin Tae: and yes.. no facebook for me as well
[10:59] Youri Ashton: improvement is a step forward, not backward!
[10:59] Adams Scarmon: I think this is going to be another nice shiny feature that nobody REALLY needs or wants though..
[10:59] Ciaran Laval: You already can do that CrashOV
[10:59] Rose Mackie: Listening to Col for jist of subject
[10:59] Colossus Linden: This will reduce the number of returned results and should make them much more relevant when searching using multiple keywords
[10:59] Mefo Elcar also hates facebook, bad idea "I wont use it"
[10:59] Master Crescendo: integrating with facebook is bad idea because in facebook terms it is not allowed to fake user information and second life avatar cannot be used for account and to make user expose real life account information to add a wishlist is bad idea in maybe many peoples eyes
[10:59] Xugu Madison: For adult content in wishlist, I'd suggest it simply lists "There is adult content in this list, please sign-in to view"
[10:59] Ciaran Laval: I have no idea why Xstreet search tips aren't made more prominent
[11:00] paeoti Pomeray: Very very true Master.
[11:00] CrashOV Uladstron: again if I am looking for black pearls why not allow me to put "black pearls" and get everything with BOTH words in that exact order?
[11:00] JubJub Forder: Given that the general feeling here seems to be NO to facebook and NO to wishlists - what process will be undertaken to determine if these are things that Xstreet users actually want?
[11:00] Sphynx Soleil: Xstreet has search tips?
[11:00] Lion Valentino: great on the search bit
[11:00] Lydi Lockhart: ** Question - Will you include a way to exclude zero cost items in the search?
[11:00] Youri Ashton: Xugu: as i said earlier, only show adult material on verified users, problem solved
[11:00] Mikhail Obscure: Ermm repeat that colossus, half the words matched?
[11:00] CrashOV Uladstron: it does not work for me
[11:00] Manha Teixeira: Crashov..that would be aweswome
[11:00] Rin Tae: search tps .. and a description of how to use keywords should be right on the front page with a big attention sign next to it
[11:00] Saikiki Moriguchi: the search should pop up words in the title first...if u search for " x " then "x" should be at the top of the list
[11:00] Darrius Gothly: Not to rubber band the conversation but .. feedback would seem to indicate Facebook is not a good choice for Wishlists.
[11:00] Youri Ashton: then both xstreet and the residents can be happy
[11:00] CrashOV Uladstron: the " " thing
[11:00] Infinite Wonder: in security circles both facebook and myspace are listed as disasters waiting to occur
[11:01] Infinite Wonder: some say the disaster has occured already but many haven't noticed yet
[11:01] Sphynx Soleil: Not everyone has or wants a "facecrack" account either
[11:01] Prince Dethly: not only
[11:01] Manha Teixeira: i type "sculpt shoe" and i get 1 zillion answers...but i ONLY want those that sell shoe sculpts
[11:01] Pink Linden: before we finish I'm gonig to spend a few minutes talking about how we make decisions
[11:01] Mefo Elcar: agreead Rin
[11:01] Ciaran Laval: Facebook after their recent privacy improvements is not a good idea full stop
[11:01] Suella Ember: yeah - could you clarify the "half the words matched" please - i really like the sound of the imporvemtns to search, but not quite sure i understand that
[11:01] Saikiki Moriguchi: u wouldn't use ut SL passwords on facebook ...lol
[11:01] Colossus Linden: Lydi, there is an advanced search which allows you to set the price range for returned results? Does this not provide the functionality you need or is this not working?
[11:01] Manha Teixeira: i don't want a afacebook account
[11:01] Pink Linden: but first, we need to finish the topics at hand.
[11:01] Shila Szondi: not only that but insurance companies and employers are watching facebook and several have been fired from jobs..you think I want them to know what I do in sl
[11:01] Adorabella Felisimo: the wishlist will make a hookers rates read like this: 30 minutes one item from wishlist, 1 hour 2 items from wishlist and so on
[11:01] Mikhail Obscure: it is not working correct colossus
[11:01] JubJub Forder: ty Pink
[11:01] Lizzie Gudkov: »»»»» Time is flying, I would like to say the following for the record. I move that a new meeting on issues related to fees in XStreet is schedulled by LL. That is one of the issues that most concerns merchants. Anyone seconds my motion? Thank you.
[11:01] Ciaran Laval: Should work CrashOV, what happens when you try it?
[11:01] Darrius Gothly: In the compendium of this Office Hour .. Colossus please expound on "half the words match". Ty.
[11:01] Ciaran Laval: Absolutely Adorabella, that will probably be the most popular use of wishlists
[11:02] Adorabella Felisimo: yep!
[11:02] Lydi Lockhart: Colossus - It's never seemed to work for me when I try to list amounts in there. Doesn't always work for permissions as well
[11:02] Seaskye Ember: Second
[11:02] Mikhail Obscure: seconded
[11:02] JubJub Forder: thirded
[11:02] Riley Mensing: that's true there are employment places that will tell you you can't have myspace or facebook whatsoever
[11:02] vittorio Plutonian thirds
[11:02] Darrius Gothly: Seconded Lizzie.
[11:02] Adams Scarmon: Again Colossus, we appriciate you coming up with new ideas and stuff, but we would PREFER if we solve the current issues FIRST..
[11:02] Mefo Elcar Seconds Lizzie's movement to schedule a meeting to address the XStreet Fees inssues
[11:02] Colossus Linden: Suella and others are asking for clarification on the new algorithm
[11:02] Rin Tae: the curretn advanced search feature is actualyl next to useless in my opinion .. it doesn ot allow to really filter the search to items one would really want
[11:02] CrashOV Uladstron: Ciaran , nothing, it pops results as usualy, with items that inculde 1 of the keywords, 2 or all etc
[11:02] Lion Valentino: I agre with Lydi, that would be a great feature, the option to not include 0 priced items
[11:02] Rose Mackie: Motion carried
[11:02] Colossus Linden: If a user enters 5 keywords in the search bar
[11:03] Colossus Linden: currently, we will return any listing that matches even 1 of those
[11:03] Darrius Gothly: oh ... ugh!
[11:03] Colossus Linden: The new algorithm will require a listing to match at least 3 of those 5 keywords in order to be returned
[11:03] Ciaran Laval: Ah with you CrashOV, if you sort by relevancy it should have those with the exacty phrase at the top
[11:03] Suella Ember: ahhhh ok
[11:03] Manha Teixeira: well, taht's better...slightly
[11:03] SherriBerry Paule: Can someone advise me how to find the next Office Hours?
[11:03] SteinerDesigner Ur: I agree that search "filters" might help: Checkboxes that you can check that maight say [x] search for EITHER keyword, or [x] search only for BOTH keywords. - or you can have an "advanced" search with a text field to EXCLUDE certain keywords to help refine your search
[11:03] Youri Ashton: limit keywords per item may be a good one
[11:03] London Junkers: I second lizs motion too
[11:03] Colossus Linden: This makes the default functionality of keyword search return results which are closer to what users generally expect with search and are used to with other search engines
[11:03] Lydi Lockhart: Colossus - Has this been tested yet?
[11:04] Youri Ashton: 5 or 10 keywords suppost to be more then enough
[11:04] Colossus Linden: Steiner, thanks for the suggestions. We have a long way to go on search but are starting
[11:04] Ciaran Laval: Colossus people are asking for features that Xstreet search already supports, + and - work, why are these tips so hard to find?
[11:04] Wac Citron: I agree with Steiner
[11:04] Colossus Linden: We are 3 minutes over
[11:04] Lydi Lockhart: ** Question - Does it match partial words - example if I type running shoe - will it return running shoes as well as running shoe?
[11:04] Penny Raleigh: IS there a beta we can access to help you guys with the development?
[11:04] Miranda Kingmaker: you can be 3 mins over since yo uistarted late
[11:05] Colossus Linden: I will mention that our team is hard at work on a number of other projects and when we have information we can provide or are ready for feedback on those, we'll present them to the community as well
[11:05] Sassy Romano: Colossus, that sounds complex, why not just do the usual "exact phrase", keyword1 keyword2 keyword3 (include result with ANY of those) +keyword (must include this) -(do not include this)
[11:05] Adorabella Felisimo: here sherri: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_hours
[11:05] Darrius Gothly: Pinning results to a "blind" set of words is not a good approach. By picking out the words with the most specificity (that appear in the fewest listings) first, More relevant results can be achieved much more rapidly.
[11:05] SherriBerry Paule: Thanks Adorabella.
[11:05] Rose Mackie: Colossus ... with so many proven search engines available and with lessons learned from improving the inworld search engine, what is the greatest task the team faces
[11:05] Colossus Linden: I will mention that 1 major project which we announced would be on the roadmap when we first acquired Xstreet is underway now
[11:05] JubJub Forder: when will Xstreet search be integrated into the SL viewer please?
[11:05] Master Crescendo: search for "ironplate texture" and it give demo hair =/
[11:05] Colossus Linden: That is a merging of L$ accounts on Xstreet SL and in SL so that users will no longer need to transfer L$ using the in-world ATMs
[11:05] BlckCobra Shikami: sometimes a simple google search appliance can work wonders
[11:05] Suella Ember: yes!
[11:06] Suella Ember: about time :)
[11:06] Lydi Lockhart: Colossus - that sounds cool
[11:06] Faust Vollmar: Demos and alternat colors and such are another matter all together that can be pretty much condensed into "sub listings" which dont appear in search or categories, only linked to from thier "master"
[11:06] Darrius Gothly: So that answers how you will get folks to pay for listings when their XSL balance is "short"?
[11:06] Rose Mackie: lol ... uses the current seperation like seperate bank accounts to avoid spending
[11:06] SherriBerry Paule: Perfect suggestion Jubjub.
[11:06] Faust Vollmar: But regardless not part of this meeting
[11:06] Ciaran Laval: haha Darrius
[11:06] Mefo Elcar: exactly Darrius
[11:06] Colossus Linden: Thanks Faust.
[11:07] Adams Scarmon: I wonder if there will be any items left to put in the wishlist after the new policy ..
[11:07] SteinerDesigner Ur: are any restrictions or limitations being put on "Keyword spam" - seems like this is a pretty exploited technique to "game" higher search results?
[11:07] Riley Mensing: good point
[11:07] Riley Mensing: lol adams
[11:07] SherriBerry Paule: Me too Rose.
[11:07] Master Crescendo: it would be easier to find products with keyword spam if it was separate field in database for it and limit size
[11:08] Darrius Gothly: Colossus .. since you opened the door by mentioning merging accounts, please do explain how you will use that to our benefit.
[11:09] Mikhail Obscure: ebay searches only the title and description, that avoids keyword spam
[11:09] Pink Linden: Darrius, you're a merchant, right?
[11:09] CrashOV Uladstron: so we can get charged when we dont have time to put money in xstreet :)
[11:09] Rose Mackie: I appreciate our Linden team tackling office hours so bravely at this time *grins*
[11:09] Colossus Linden: Sure Darrius
[11:09] Darrius Gothly: Yes Pink.
[11:09] Lion Valentino: yes, and will Linden X ans Xstreet exchange, stay or merge as well
[11:09] Colossus Linden: As a shopper, if you have your L$ in Second Life, it is now easier to shop on Xstreet
[11:09] Pink Linden: so, you want more shioppers to buy, right?
[11:09] Colossus Linden: As a new user, you are likely to start shopping (spending L$) on Xstreet sooner
[11:09] Youri Ashton: merging accounts??? what good would that do?
[11:09] Suella Ember: the benefit (for me anyway - im really happy about it!) is that all my money is in one palce and i dont have to keep transferring funds. If i can't control my own spending thats my own problem :)
[11:09] Colossus Linden: both of these benefit merchants
[11:09] JubJub Forder: one less "barrier to purchase"
[11:09] Colossus Linden: As a shopper, the experience is simpler and more of what is expected
[11:10] Colossus Linden: Good way to put it jubjub
[11:10] Pink Linden: exactly Jubjub
[11:10] Colossus Linden: we are removing a barrier to purchase
[11:10] Youri Ashton: dont see why that is a good thing...
[11:10] Suella Ember: precisely jubjub
[11:10] Rose Mackie: as a shopper, I don't see that barrier as it is so easy to transfer funds
[11:10] Youri Ashton: still gain the same money
[11:10] Mefo Elcar: not good for those watching their pennies, but for the merchants and LL it is a good thing
[11:10] Infinite Wonder: for now the inworld deposit box is very handy I don't understand why more people don't have them
[11:10] Colossus Linden: Youri, why would you say that removing a barrier to purchase is not a good thing?
[11:10] Youri Ashton: to much work for the same income
[11:10] Suella Ember: so why not make it even eaiser Rose?
[11:10] Cherry Blossom Tree: Falling Blossoms OFF
[11:10] Darrius Gothly: k .. understood. Now how will we be able to "protect" our accounts in SL from spurious problems at XStreet .. and in specific .. upcoming fees that we may or may not be prepared to pay?
[11:10] SteinerDesigner Ur: the merging of accounts, is like the merging of passwords, it seems like a logical consolidation to me
[11:10] Rin Tae: it is a good thing for customers .. some of the other sites already offer vendor services, that remove this barrier for shoppers
[11:10] Youri Ashton: i myself have 4 avi's as i told Philip some time ago
[11:11] JubJub Forder: Agreed SteinerDesigner
[11:11] Rose Mackie: as a merchant, I can easily see what i sell on Xstreet by looking at my balance there
[11:11] vittorio Plutonian agrees with darrius
[11:11] Colossus Linden: Thanks Folks.
[11:11] Youri Ashton: i never have any bad things when i like to buy something, just transfer the money, thats all
[11:11] Rose Mackie: as the current bookkeeping functionality is not so very good
[11:11] Saikiki Moriguchi: are the coming script memory limits oneof the reasoins u want to merge?
[11:11] Rose Mackie: but that is another issue altogther
[11:12] SherriBerry Paule: Again, me too Rose.
[11:12] Lion Valentino: and is there an underlying reason to merge accounts, so that the the fees are applied on XStreeT sl, that they will come out automatically on those merchants?
[11:12] CrashOV Uladstron: you should allow us to download older transaction history doc not just the previous mounth
[11:12] BlckCobra Shikami: Most annoying is the different report format which makes it hard to import stuff into a local database
[11:12] CrashOV Uladstron: that ..would help
[11:12] Lydi Lockhart: Colossus - are we done with the Topics that were planned?
[11:12] Mefo Elcar: Agreed Crash, "[11:12] CrashOV Uladstron: you should allow us to download older transaction history doc not just the previous mounth"
[11:12] Rose Mackie: the next meeting is at what time please?
[11:12] Colossus Linden: And then begin preparing for our next session
[11:12] Colossus Linden: Lydi, yes we are. I'm going to stick around for a few to answer a few of the questions I've gotten privately
[11:12] Youri Ashton: besides, merging acounts wouldnt give any extra so far i hear, so why all the fuss for no extra gain?
[11:12] Colossus Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
[11:12] Ciaran Laval: Merging of accounts has long been on the agenda, there's nothing malicious about it, even if the timing of the conversation might lead to such conclusions, merging balances makes sense
[11:12] SteinerDesigner Ur: the reality about the fees - whatever they are, is that they will come from SOMEWHERE, might as well have it all in once pot, rather than two.
[11:13] Colossus Linden: And thanks to all of teh Lindens who were here to help today.
[11:13] Adams Scarmon: Will there be a meeting about the new policies? As the previous one was not advertised properly, many did not know there was a meeting
[11:13] Suella Ember: k - im gonna scoot becuase all this chat is making me go all blurry eyed :) trhanks for the updates and i'll catch you all again at th next meeting i'm sure :)
[11:13] Colossus Linden: Special thanks to Pink for handling questions & to Grant for presenting the homepage refresh
[11:13] Saikiki Moriguchi: ~☆★♪サーミ♪★☆~
[11:13] Suella Ember: and thanks to those who stayed constructive! (and with that i'll scoot off ;))
[11:13] Colossus Linden: And thanks to all you shoppers and merchants. Please feel free to join us at our other sessions today
[11:13] Rin Tae: it would still help a lot to answer questions if the IM questions are posted with the chat as well
[11:13] Driftwood Miles: I am all in favour of removing barriers for shoppers...but it will make a lot of people assess the need for an inworld presence. This will have a domino effect on other parts of the economy
[11:14] Darrius Gothly hands Suella the Visine ...
[11:14] JubJub Forder: next meeting is in 5 hrs
[11:14] CrashOV Uladstron: so , when will you have a meeting about the new xstreet rules/fees?
[11:14] Saikiki Moriguchi: bye all i'll try to make the next one
[11:14] Penny Raleigh: How do we get something added to the agenda?
[11:14] Pink Linden: we will see you at 4pm. same topic, different time zone.
[11:14] Adams Scarmon: personally, I, and I think I speak for many other residents, are more interested in a meeting discussing the new policy. So will there be a meeting about that topic?
[11:14] Penny Raleigh: How do we get something added to the agenda?
[11:14] Darrius Gothly: Hear Hear Adams .. Colossus? Pink? We would like a meeting on just that topic.
[11:14] Rose Mackie hopes there is an answer and not an evasion
[11:14] Rin Tae: yes. a meeting about the policy changes is asked for by many people I have spoken with
[11:15] Youri Ashton: i will keep coming with the same questions untill its solved
[11:15] BlckCobra Shikami: I have a question reharding XStreet and support: Sample: Customer X buys a tranferable item and does not receivre it. He turns to the merchant/creator and to support. Creator redelivers the items and several hours later Support also redeliveres the item. With the result the customer got 2. 2 questions arise from that: a) Do I no more replace thjings as a mercant, LL does that and b) from my understanding of the TOS, LL is taking properties of our things and passing it away, actually a TOS violation?
[11:15] Youri Ashton: if the xstreet team doesnt help, then ill just have to go to M instead
[11:15] Adams Scarmon: I PREFER a meeting about the new policy - ONCE we solved THAT issue, we can discuss about wishlists and a new homepage.
[11:15] Youri Ashton: hey blck :p
[11:16] Penny Raleigh: I ask again, how do we get something added to the agenda?
[11:16] Lizzie Gudkov: A motion has been presented and carried.
[11:16] CrashOV Uladstron: can we please have an answer? are you going to have a meeting about the added fees or not?
[11:16] Darrius Gothly highlights AND seconds Penny's question.
[11:16] Adams Scarmon: And now they go silent..
[11:16] Adorabella Felisimo: seconded
[11:16] Pink Linden: No Crash, we are not.
[11:16] Mefo Elcar: yes, how do we get something added to the agenda?
[11:16] Pink Linden: Now, hear me out
[11:16] JubJub Forder listens
[11:17] Adams Scarmon: How comes the most IMPORTANT Thing is not going to be discussed?
[11:17] Penny Raleigh: it's a fair question
[11:17] Pink Linden: in principle, we are going forward with the fees. that said, we have not decided all the details of implementation
[11:17] London Junkers: Pink just clearly stated theres not going to be a meeting regarding that subject guys
[11:17] Pink Linden: and the literally, thousands of emails, notecards, and posts on the subject have done a a good job of summing up the concerns.
[11:17] Shila Szondi: thirds penny's comment
[11:17] Youri Ashton: on the blog it seemed very much a go
[11:17] Faust Vollmar: Probably worth noting the public lindens are on a really short leashes held by corporate, before you go attacking the ones you can see.
[11:17] paeoti Pomeray: And when does that fee start to affect merchants on XSTREET?
[11:18] Youri Ashton: didnt look like a perhaps at all
[11:18] Lizzie Gudkov: I have been to thousands of meetings in my life, and in all it was possible to add a topic to the agenda. How is that done here? Good question, indeed.
[11:18] Adams Scarmon: But they dont make a difference pink, if nothing is going to be changed in the new policy..
[11:18] Pink Linden: so we are listening on the details of implementation but in principle we *are* going forward with fees for freebies and for listings on XStreet.
[11:18] Youri Ashton: still, my income dropped to 0L$ thanks to these new rules
[11:18] Adams Scarmon: Same Youri..
[11:18] Youri Ashton: and my income wasnt that big in the first place...
[11:18] Mefo Elcar: Pink, is there an update on the time frame for implementation?
[11:19] Shila Szondi: I don't see me continuing with slx with the other services are less
[11:19] Colossus Linden: We will need to set topics regarding upcoming releases and features and policies that we are trying to design. However, there are times when we have a number of options. I'll see what we can do about consolidationg topic suggestions for future office hours, but the topic chosen may not come from that list.
[11:19] Pink Linden: Mefo, thanks for asking.
[11:19] Lydi Lockhart: Pink - My only question about the fees is will we have a chance to remove our items before being charged for having them up.
[11:19] Persephone Loon: and you'll be "listening" too I suppose, about integrating real-life and second life info with theese new Fascebook wishlists, yes? :-/
[11:19] Penny Raleigh: I ask for a FOURTH time, how do we get something added to the agenda?
[11:19] JubJub Forder: my sales on xstreet dropped over 50% since fees announcement
[11:19] Pink Linden: we promised and we will give you at least 14 days' notice via email
[11:19] Lydi Lockhart: Great!
[11:19] Youri Ashton: already deleted everything
[11:19] Pink Linden: we do not see implementing phase one before mid January
[11:20] Adams Scarmon: Well if I may so .. that sucks Colossus.. right now our BIGGEST worries are the new policy... It would be very helpful if you are going to host a meeting about that topic
[11:20] Youri Ashton: i can not afford to wait and see
[11:20] Mefo Elcar: thanks Pink
[11:20] Pink Linden: I also I want to be clear that if you simply mark your items inactive you will not be charged.
[11:20] Youri Ashton: that news is already killing bussiness in the first place
[11:20] Rin Tae: so why was it impossible to send the announcment about this being implemented through e-mail in the first place? it works well with advertisment
[11:20] paeoti Pomeray: ty.
[11:20] Mefo Elcar: ah good to know
[11:20] Manha Teixeira: my buns are numb from sitting on that rock
[11:20] Pink Linden: so doing that will save you time while you think about what you watn to do next.
[11:20] Lydi Lockhart: I'm keeping my few items up til it changes then I'm just going to have to make a choice about what I want to do
[11:20] Shila Szondi: thinks the new policies will be the end of slx and this meeting really wont matter
[11:20] Colossus Linden: Jumjub, shoppers and sales volume overall have continued to increase since the announcement as well as average earnings per merchant. It is unfortunate that your sales have not, but on average, merchants are doing better.
[11:20] Lion Valentino: well I deactiaved 200 items, got 1800 more to go
[11:20] Colossus Linden: Also, we have not enacted any of the policies yet.
[11:20] BlckCobra Shikami: so the email will go to all merchants like the last questionaire, which I an several other did not get?
[11:21] Youri Ashton: unfortunately it did not give me any other choise then just do that pink, im really upset and so say the least angry about it
[11:21] Adams Scarmon: Yes, I guess the big merchants dont complain..
[11:21] Mefo Elcar: that's a wise move as deleting items is a bit of a chore currently
[11:21] Pink Linden: I want to express that we are sorry to see some merchants choose to leave.
[11:21] Pink Linden: but we do believe if we provide a good platform and value that is what matters most
[11:21] Manha Teixeira: i got my xstreet magic box....but now i'm not going to sell anything....anbody wants a box?:P
[11:21] Youri Ashton: pink, i did not choose to leave, i was forced to leave
[11:21] Pink Linden: so we'll continue to strive for that.
[11:21] Shila Szondi: Pink there are better options now..and unless the concerns are addressed and people have a voice there is no reason to stay with slx
[11:21] Adorabella Felisimo: same here, I am being forced out
[11:21] Lydi Lockhart: How were you forced to leave Youri?
[11:21] Darrius Gothly: Will "general" stats be published re Increased sales volume and increased average income per merchat? Those are vital numbers to see .. for everyone.
[11:21] Youri Ashton: I have not the funding to keep those prices up, its not fair
[11:21] Adams Scarmon: Many were *forced* to leave , it was not a 'decission'
[11:22] JubJub Forder: Colossus, not according to my chats with some of the major merchants - they are all experiencing major declines over last 3 weeks
[11:22] Youri Ashton: i can not do it by just SL money, neither with RL money
[11:22] Youri Ashton: only get 60euro a week
[11:22] Youri Ashton: rest goes to bills
[11:22] SteinerDesigner Ur: it's a good question brought up by BlckCobra - will every XStreet vendor be contacted, in case they haven't been keeping up to date with the forums and such?
[11:22] Manha Teixeira: i'[m new to SL...trying to build a business...can't start at xstreet...and by the time i get to that level, the prices will have gone up....so....i'm not going to even staart at xstreet
[11:22] Lydi Lockhart: The changes haven't happened yet - why pull your stuff down until they start charging for things?
[11:22] paeoti Pomeray: ACtually Colossus, those averages that you just gave are for folks who GAME the XSTREET system. Not for folks who simply use it wisley and ethically. I will be pulling what I do have on Xtreet by the time that TAX on top of the percentage comes into effect.
[11:22] BlckCobra Shikami: yep, sales went drastically down and on top of that will be more costs
[11:22] Adorabella Felisimo: how can sales be up when thousands and THOUSANDS of items have been deleted?
[11:22] Pink Linden: steiner, yes, everyone will be
[11:22] Youri Ashton: xstreet rules make it impossible to do what i love to do, build and sell
[11:22] Mefo Elcar: one word lydi, Boycott
[11:22] Manha Teixeira: agree youri
[11:23] Driff Beardmore: sale are up, sure - everyone is getting the freebies before they are gone.
[11:23] Lydi Lockhart: Ah, well a boycott is not being forced to do something, it's choosing to do something
[11:23] Pink Linden: what we mean by sales is not # of items sold
[11:23] Penny Raleigh: SL runs on freebies
[11:23] Pink Linden: sales=$L value of goods sold
[11:23] Youri Ashton: i got autism as i said earlier, knowing that, i can not work on a regular base like any of you
[11:23] Darrius Gothly: Colossus .. You made a very broad and positive statement. Forgive me but, I really do need to see hard numbers to back up that statement.
[11:23] Manha Teixeira: for me it's not boycott...it's just something not convenient financially
[11:23] Adams Scarmon: I truly hope Linden Lab will reconsider this policy.
[11:23] Mefo Elcar: I'm personally leaving everything on there till I get that email, then I will selectively remove certain items
[11:23] Youri Ashton: there for i only gain gouvernment money in, which isnt much at all
[11:24] Pink Linden: Mefo, I understand and remind you that you only have to set the item to inactive
[11:24] SteinerDesigner Ur: Mefo, I think I am along the same lines as you are
[11:24] Pink Linden: which will not take much time.
[11:24] Adorabella Felisimo: I didn't understand that pink
[11:24] Shila Szondi: Ive already seen in world slx signs pulled down and replaced with meta
[11:24] Adams Scarmon: Yup Shila.
[11:24] Master Crescendo: i see angry people in other group before they say it is not possible to make mass delete of items, will that be enabled in xstreetsl.com for people that want to remove?
[11:24] BlckCobra Shikami: How about, we take off the listing enchantments and pay the L$10 fee instead - good deal?
[11:24] Mefo Elcar: yeah I'm pleased to hear that Pink, I wasn't looking forward to deleting alot of items
[11:24] Rin Tae: I am watching several categolries on SLX and the numbers have gone down significantly .. lisitng of additional christmas items has reduced the fall, but the general trend is still poitning downwards
[11:25] SteinerDesigner Ur: you don't have to "delete" the items, you can simply set them to be "inactive". Fees will not apply to inactive items
[11:25] Lydi Lockhart: That's an interesting idea.. people that pay for a listing enhancement don't have to pay the listing fee?
[11:25] SherriBerry Paule: I would preferr a notice of price changed be given to me in my SLX missage inbox. My SL notices in e-mail are way to much to shift thru already.
[11:25] Persephone Loon: for now :P
[11:25] Adams Scarmon: I think its rather weak that this important policy is not going to be on the agenda of other office hours.
[11:25] Pink Linden: Rin, the number of economically positive ($L1 and above) listings are stable for the last week and now trending upward again.
[11:25] Penny Raleigh: What's the point of making them inactive if u can't afford the fees you can't afford them.
[11:26] Isabelle Jules: because people are doing it before charges come
[11:26] Pink Linden: Penny, I'll let other merchants answer your questions
[11:26] SteinerDesigner Ur: making them inactive is less hassle than deleting (it takes less time and effort)
[11:26] Master Crescendo: how can it be less charge for linden to store inactive 1,000,000 item and active 1,000,000 item? it is the database query and storage space that cost in serverside
[11:26] BlckCobra Shikami: I for my poart will deactivate one of the L$999 listing enchantments and pay 16 x the L$10 fee - good deal: I save a lot of L$ every year
[11:26] Ciaran Laval: Xstreet sakes have been at record levels, why something is being fixed that isn't broken will have to forever remain a mystery
[11:26] Adams Scarmon: Well PInk, the policy isnt active yet.. wait till the policy officially starts, many other people will cash out.
[11:26] Penny Raleigh: I suppose so.
[11:26] Lion Valentino: well I have 9 stores listed, over 2000 items, trying to go through and decide what is or isn't a seller, then, finding it and setting it inactive IS NOT easy
[11:26] Pink Linden: Ciaran, I'm really glad you asked that question
[11:27] Pink Linden: it gives me a chance to talk about how we make decisions and get that in the public record.
[11:27] Ciaran Laval: Pink if you start spinning this I'm goping to poke you with my pitchfork :p
[11:27] SherriBerry Paule: Some merchants have taken this to heart and using their listings solely as advertising.
[11:28] Mefo Elcar chuckles at Ciaran
[11:28] Rin Tae: I have seen it .. there is still the loss of more then 40.000 items and right now, I am trying to figure out if it is the chrismas sale that get soem numbers up again or if people who have deactivated items have decided to keep them active .. but without any beter statistics on this, it is impossible to find it out. However I will stay with my assumption that this is only a chrismas sale related periodic slow down of the delisitng process that will get more momentum again once the implementation date comes near
[11:28] Pink Linden: ciaran, I grew up on a farm. incapable of spin
[11:28] Rin Tae: 40.000 in the three catagories I watch .. more in others
[11:28] Penny Raleigh: Once the 14 days email goes out there's be an exodus from xtreet
[11:28] Adams Scarmon: and those items Rin is refering to, are NOT Clutter....
[11:29] Darrius Gothly: LOL Hah! I think farmers invented "bullsh .. um .. pucky"
[11:29] vittorio Plutonian TPs Bill O'Reilly to the meeting
[11:29] SteinerDesigner Ur: ohh...a farmbunny (hehe)
[11:29] Pink Linden: What you guys need most from us is shoppers....you can hear it in the comments over and over again
[11:29] Pink Linden: help getting people to find you
[11:29] paeoti Pomeray: ID MUCH rather you grab Lou Dobbs Vittorio. LOL
[11:29] Rin Tae: shoppers needs confidence in the merchants ... the merchants need confidence into the providers of the market
[11:29] Mefo Elcar: I actually experienced a brief rise in sales after the announcement was made...
[11:29] Sphynx Soleil: and not getting screwed over to policies waiting for shoppers :P
[11:29] vittorio Plutonian: he does not get to Italy paeoti
[11:29] Pink Linden: well if you all think I'm full of it then nothing I say matters....but I don't think you all mean that
[11:29] SherriBerry Paule: Hence: a better search engine, pink.
[11:30] paeoti Pomeray: welllllll crap LOL
[11:30] Mefo Elcar: go on Pink
[11:30] JubJub Forder listens
[11:30] SteinerDesigner Ur: (listens to what Pink has to say)
[11:30] Rivan Dressler: I dont pink! *waves* :P
[11:30] Pink Linden: it has taken entirely too long to get you the features you need
[11:31] Pink Linden: but they *are* coming
[11:31] Pink Linden: and I *will* share a roadmap in Q1 next year
[11:31] London Junkers: You always say the same but reading the blogs one would get a different idea
[11:31] Pink Linden: we have been staffing up our dev teams
[11:31] Darrius Gothly: Sadly .. the ones that need customers the most, are the little folks barely hanging on. While this may bring in more shoppers, it kills the group that needed them most in the first place.
[11:31] Sphynx Soleil: ....and if you believe that, we got a good bridge..... :)
[11:31] Pink Linden: I think many of you have seen the oipen headcount in web development.
[11:32] Pink Linden: until I had the web developers to do the work, I wasn't going to make promises we couldn't keep.
[11:32] CrashOV Uladstron: by features that we all needed you mean an added fee to what we allready pay in : %, texture uploads etc
[11:32] Rin Tae: more people in the public relations departmetn are needed I think
[11:32] Master Crescendo: how can i apply? lol
[11:32] Rivan Dressler: Dariius, those folks must create something the customer wants first. Pink cant be made to provide customers with a specific need for all merchantes.
[11:32] Adams Scarmon: all the new features and enchantments are only good for the BIG merchants, that make 1000s of L$ a week... what we need is support for the SMALLER merchants.
[11:32] Pink Linden: so...how we make decisions...
[11:32] Mefo Elcar: lol Rin
[11:32] Pink Linden: we use scrum methodology for those familiar with the term
[11:32] Darrius Gothly: Implement the upgrades, changes and new features first .. get the sales volume up for the barely surviving .. THEN get a piece of their new income. Don't make them pay first with the promise of "better to come".
[11:33] Pink Linden: we have a backlog of features and we rank them according to several criteria
[11:33] Mefo Elcar: hmms crum to me is tasty or a rugby huddle
[11:33] Mefo Elcar: *scrum
[11:33] Master Crescendo: we are the pigs =)
[11:33] SherriBerry Paule: .....wish lists....
[11:33] Pink Linden: the criteria are related to GMV (sales volume), development capacity, and new user acquisition
[11:34] Lucille Violet: Oi pessoas!
[11:34] Lucille Violet: Hi people!
[11:34] Persephone Loon: what about new user RETENTION???
[11:34] SteinerDesigner Ur: hello Lucille
[11:34] Manha Teixeira: persephone....exactly
[11:34] Penny Raleigh: What critera Pink?
[11:35] BlckCobra Shikami: @Pink; this sounds like LL is battling on many fronts, but unfortunately seems to do that by filing one hole with the next ... and forgot that growith in SL is crucial and that your methology is killin gthose who might be the next big merchants or shoppers
[11:35] Manha Teixeira: new seller acquisition ...new seller retention...i see none for xstreet
[11:35] Pink Linden: GMV is a function of merchant retention
[11:35] Rin Tae: active management of the entry areas .. a activly managed mentor group and a easier way to explain the functiosn and possibilties of SL will do ten tiems more to get new ueser into SL then a wishlist .. plus .. more advertising
[11:35] Persephone Loon: all those "millions of new users" you Lindens keep burbling about are empty numbers if they don't STICK AROUND
[11:35] Cherry Blossom Tree : Falling Blossoms OFF
[11:35] Pink Linden: if merchants are selling more and that number grows, it's good
[11:36] Mikhail Obscure: **third try++ please publish sales stats pink
[11:36] Adams Scarmon: I must take my leave now - thanks for the meeting, it was not the meeting I hoped for though.
[11:36] Darrius Gothly: Be well Adams.
[11:36] Adams Scarmon: You too :)
[11:36] JubJub Forder: how does wish lists meet any of those criteria?
[11:36] Pink Linden: Rin, there is a separate group inside of Linden Lab pursuing that
[11:36] Penny Raleigh: You're wasting your time Mikhail they ignore questions they don't want to answer
[11:36] SherriBerry Paule: Really Jubjub.
[11:36] Lydi Lockhart: I really ant to stay but I have to go deal with real life
[11:36] Mikhail Obscure: true
[11:36] Lydi Lockhart: ant=want
[11:36] Persephone Loon: and BUY STUFF from the merchants who are PAYING YOLUR SALARIES by paying TIER
[11:36] Darrius Gothly: Agreed Jubjub .. it appears the criteria may be faulty. They do not reflect the well spoken needs and desirees of the Merchant base.
[11:36] Shila Szondi: and facebook..shakes my head...sorry I want my privacty
[11:36] Manha Teixeira: lydi, sorry i won't have an ant....
[11:37] Pink Linden: Jubjub wishlists were somthing we wanted to get out over the holidays....this was a way to do it fast with little to no development work
[11:37] Lydi Lockhart: Take care!
[11:37] BlckCobra Shikami: yep LOL ... I asked my question 4 times now. Guess it's time I forget teh question or takie it publick :-(
[11:37] BlckCobra Shikami: -c
[11:38] Penny Raleigh: I aked mine four times too
[11:38] Pink Linden: there's a lot of text here
[11:38] Darrius Gothly: Pink .. you have asked us to trust in your system. You have asked us to be patient and just give it some time. But we have asked, again and again, for some solid proof progress is being made. So far .. we have waitied and listened, but you have not provided any proof of progress.
[11:38] Pink Linden: so what is the question that hasn't been answered?
[11:38] Penny Raleigh: I asked how do we get an item added to the agenda?
[11:38] Penny Raleigh: fifth time now :-(
[11:39] Ciaran Laval: Why when you're having record sales are you discouraging merchants? Oh wait Penny and Mikhail had questions
[11:39] Pink Linden: don't take it personally.
[11:39] Pink Linden: Penny, this is a big chat with a lot of people.
[11:39] Mefo Elcar: yes the AGENDA question has been asked a few (many) times
[11:39] JubJub Forder: Pink, you just described your methodology for making decsions on what gets implementated, i ask how Wishlists meets that , and you reply "something we wanted"... so am i to conclude Wishlists weren't actually decieded using your methodology?
[11:39] Penny Raleigh: yes and lots of ppl seconded me.
[11:39] Mikhail Obscure: please will you publish sales breakdown pink?
[11:39] Pink Linden: ok to answer Penny's question. frankly, we set the agenda based on waht development projects are coming down the pike.
[11:39] Pink Linden: things we want to double check on
[11:40] Pink Linden: in the case of policies, to understand the nuances
[11:40] Penny Raleigh: so we have no way of influencing the agenda of this open office then?
[11:40] Darrius Gothly: So .. development and what they are doing .. totally isolated from the customers .. decides YOUR path? Pink .. that's backwards.
[11:40] Manha Teixeira: bbl....gotta go pray for better business opportunities :)
[11:40] JubJub Forder: given the level of interest...shouldn't you be double-checking?
[11:40] Persephone Loon: so it's predetermined, or so it seems :-/
[11:40] Pink Linden: I don't see the point in having office hours on soemthing that isn't going to change
[11:40] Pink Linden: that would be disingenuous
[11:40] SherriBerry Paule: And no way to influence the "pike".
[11:40] Sphynx Soleil: Pink, dear, if you understood the nuances, you wouldn't be getting flak at office hours
[11:41] SherriBerry Paule: Thank-you everyone. So many good ideas in all of this. Bye for now.
[11:41] London Junkers: Guys we are just "giving them traffic" they dont care about us a bit and will remain doing ONLY what is good for them and their company!!
[11:41] Persephone Loon: so we're just spinning our wheels here at these office hours, from what you just said pink
[11:41] Darrius Gothly: tc SherriBerry
[11:41] JubJub Forder: while that is very true Pink...given the level of "interest" why isn't it being reconsidered?
[11:41] Pink Linden: Sphynx, with all due respect, wtih a community as varied as this one, it's impossible to have consensus
[11:41] Penny Raleigh: Pink, I have only asked how we can influence the agenda, not tabled a particular item.
[11:42] Shila Szondi: well I dont see putting in the time for the new designs when it will be a dead horse soon as the fees are implemented
[11:42] Ciaran Laval: There's nothing wrong with admitting you've got something wrong after feedback
[11:42] Sphynx Soleil: Pink, dear, half the time you lot dont' even appear to be LISTENING, forget getting a consensus
[11:42] Mikhail Obscure: pink stats? Any chance?
[11:42] Penny Raleigh: Pink, Is there any way w ecan influence the agenda?
[11:43] Pink Linden: Penny, sure! we monitor community issues and add items when we see they're new and interesting.
[11:43] BlckCobra Shikami: LMAO
[11:43] Lion Valentino: Sad to say, Instead of "Open Office" its should be renamed "This is how its gonna be"
[11:43] London Junkers: rofl
[11:43] Pink Linden: but we will not use this time for screaming matches. it's not productive.
[11:43] Rin Tae: okay .. lol
[11:43] Penny Raleigh: that's very nebulous
[11:43] Sphynx Soleil: and 'consensus' has nothing to do with 'understanding the nuances' - if you understood, truly understood, WHY peopel are reacting the way you do....well, you could be explaining things better, let's just start with that
[11:43] Sassy Romano: that's good to hear Pink
[11:43] Darrius Gothly: This "Interactive World" really needs "Interactive Management" too.
[11:44] Pink Linden: ok, well I am not sure if I helped at all
[11:44] Sphynx Soleil: *the way THEY do, rather
[11:44] London Junkers: screaming matches? having your people coming to discuss topics that matter and not listening to them treating them like idiots?
[11:44] Master Crescendo: a tip could be a voting poll on new issues on website so people can see, think and contribute their opinion on changes to also help you make decisions that community support Pink
[11:44] Shila Szondi: okay here are the concerns facing business right now..rumours of script restrictions..which means a redo of most products.. inventory rumours, and increase in fees...so in a nutshell. Less service, more fees, and we are supposed to not have a voice on it?
[11:44] Penny Raleigh: Good idea Master
[11:44] Darrius Gothly: Agreed .. there are a lot of active voices and viewpoints that would contribute .. willingly.
[11:44] JubJub Forder: Xstreet is not a coummunity owned or run organisation, neither is SL - they do not want to see polls on what we think is best.
[11:45] Pink Linden: Shila, I'm glad you brought that up
[11:45] Ciaran Laval: Thanks for staying late Pink
[11:45] Mefo Elcar: yes I would like to have some clarification on the script and inventory restrictions that are rumoured at the moment
[11:45] Pink Linden: I'm meeting with Jack soon to get a better understanding. I will be representing merchants in that discussion
[11:45] Driftwood Miles: Yes Pink, thank you
[11:45] Master Crescendo: jubjub if they dont want input they would not discuss at all
[11:45] BlckCobra Shikami: Shila: script restrictions are not a rumor, but reality and neccessary - it can not be that a 512 sqm parcel owner has 40.000 scripts running and the one who own 3/4 of a sim suffers from that. The limits have to be said to be "generous"
[11:45] Persephone Loon: me too mefo!
[11:45] Darrius Gothly: Would you like a real merchant or 20 to back you up Pink? (waves hand)
[11:46] Meta Linden: Babbage Linden's office hours is the right one to talk about the script limits project. There's lots of information about that project in the minutes from his regular meetings, he's been very transparent about that project.
[11:46] Pink Linden: Darrius, once I understnd the issues I can then open up a discussion and possibly an office hours on that.
[11:46] Rin Tae: the escript restrictions seem not to be the horror some people might beleive it to be .. so far, the scripters I asked want to wait until more is known and they are mostly not that worried about it
[11:46] Shila Szondi: thanks Meta where can I find those minutes please
[11:46] Darrius Gothly: It would be great feedback .. and feed forward ... thank you Pink.
[11:46] Pink Linden: I don't have any facts to share so I'm reluctant to engage or discuss until I do.
[11:47] Master Crescendo: i work day time and live in europe how can i hear about office hour from them?
[11:47] Mefo Elcar: I think the inventory restrictions are going to have more of an impact on my SL
[11:47] BlckCobra Shikami: correct Rin
[11:47] Infinite Wonder as a scripter looks forward to the limits
[11:47] Persephone Loon: i use a lot of scripted vendors -- I NEED to know about these script limits!
[11:47] Faust Vollmar: Aye, most scripters I know are watching with thier spare eye and brow raised, but not freaking out about it. Right now theres not a whole lot of specifics other than how the cap, when it's determined, will be divided.
[11:47] Shila Szondi: I build furniture so need to know also
[11:48] Meta Linden: on the wiki Shila - here's the most recent transcript http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2009_12_09
[11:48] Shila Szondi: thank you very much Meta, will take a read for sure
[11:48] Mefo Elcar: thanks Meta!
[11:48] Darrius Gothly: And next is tomorrow morning at 3am SLT
[11:48] London Junkers: yes thanks meta
[11:48] Youri Ashton: meta, why dont you have your OH btw?
[11:48] Meta Linden: Glad to help. That's a great collaborative project, and there's lots of history to read through.
[11:48] vittorio Plutonian: thank you from europe
[11:48] Youri Ashton: missed you several times :(
[11:48] Shila Szondi: now one thing I have said to people is that if you look at what we had a year ago in scripts and what we have today, the scripts have gone wild
[11:48] Pink Linden: you are welcome vittorio, we try to have these in 3 times to benefit different time zones.
[11:49] Faust Vollmar as a scripter really needs to stop missing Babbage's meetings but theyre at such a terrible hour for him. -_-
[11:49] Meta Linden: I've been focusing on helping out the Commerce hours instead lately, I'm going to cancel my separate office hours and work on group ones like this
[11:49] Shila Szondi: a couch cant just be a couch now customers want sex, cuddle, colour changer and reg sits
[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Jack's office hour is 11am SLT on Thursdays, he discusses some parts of the issue such as expected timeframe
[11:49] BlckCobra Shikami: I have a question regarding XStreet and support: Sample: Customer X buys a transferable item and does not receive it. He turns to the merchant/creator and to support. Creator redelivers the item and several hours later support also redeliveres the item. With the result the customer got 2.

2 questions arise from that: a) Do I no more replace things as a merchant because LL does that on my behalf and b) from my understanding of the TOS, LL is taking "ownership" of our things and passing it to someone without our agreement, actually a TOS violation?

[11:49] Pink Linden: yes, I definitely encourage attendance at Jack's office hours
[11:49] Pink Linden: I want him to hear from merchants specifically
[11:49] Youri Ashton: oh okay, mind placing a sign at your office for that please? could help a lot more people :p
[11:49] Youri Ashton: instead of running off without notice :p
[11:50] Darrius Gothly: Help Jack out then Pink .. post where we can all find info on his office hours on the Forums. *sly wink*
[11:50] Pink Linden: he has a standing one I thought?
[11:50] Sphynx Soleil: If he did, we wouldn't be asking
[11:50] Persephone Loon: and on twitter too :P
[11:50] Pink Linden: blck cobra
[11:50] Pink Linden: I suggest you do not redeliver but let CS do it
[11:50] Pink Linden: that's part of what your fees pay for
[11:51] BlckCobra Shikami: I was never informed about that and support can not verify if he really got it - that has shown in 2 cases now
[11:51] Pink Linden: but I wonder what other merchatns have to say
[11:51] Youri Ashton: sorry pink, didnt catch what you were referring to
[11:51] CrashOV Uladstron: problem is, whenever i dont redeliver and direct them to xstreet cs, i end up with a bad review
[11:51] Youri Ashton: could you please repeat?
[11:51] BlckCobra Shikami: To make it simple: it open fraud doors and windows
[11:51] BlckCobra Shikami: opens
[11:51] Darrius Gothly: Thank you all .. I'm afraid I have to leave. I look forward to seeing you folks again in the next OH session.
[11:52] Mefo Elcar: see ya Darrius
[11:52] Persephone Loon: bye darrius
[11:52] Faust Vollmar: I agree, automatic redelivery is more trouble for merchants than it saves them.
[11:52] Meta Linden: Will do Youri, thanks for the feedback. I'll update my wiki reference
[11:52] Penny Raleigh: Byee

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