User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-30

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  • [11:00 SLT] Jack Linden: hey folks!
  • [11:00 SLT] Moon Corrigible: The last time I asked Blue seemed to think that move wouldnt be a big deal at all - which sort of made me hyperventilate - lol
  • [11:00 SLT] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
  • [11:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Blondin is essentially a PR toadie.
  • [11:01 SLT] Uni Ninetails: Hey Jack
  • [11:01 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Hey there Jack
  • [11:01 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hi, Jack!
  • [11:01 SLT] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
  • [11:01 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack!
  • [11:01 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, well at this point any intelligent person would have realised that the SL residents do not get better like Voltron when they hook up.
  • [11:01 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Hi, Jack.
  • [11:01 SLT] Gonzales Martinek: Hi Jack.
  • [11:01 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Hello Jack
  • [11:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Generally, someone steps up to try to be the public face of a bad policy. No one gets thrust into that role.
  • [11:01 SLT] Marianne McCann: Now that's an image, Elan
  • [11:01 SLT] Asterion Coen: hello :)
  • [11:02 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh come on Talarus, people do whatever they get told to do. Nobody steps up out of nowhere and volunteers to get shouted at all day long
  • [11:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: The only problem is that Blondin has made himself out to be an architect by many of his responses, so I think he knows a lot more than he is telling, but it doesn't matter.
  • [11:02 SLT] Fontte Newbold: That is, unless you work in customer service. :)
  • [11:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: If someone told me to sell this pile of crap, I would say "fire me".
  • [11:02 SLT] Moon Corrigible: True we have bigger fish to fry... Hi Jack! - ehhehee
  • [11:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I didn't really get that impression Talarus, about him being an architect
  • [11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: this sounds like a fascinating conversation already!
  • [11:03 SLT] Jack Linden: what did i miss?
  • [11:03 SLT] Uni Ninetails risks a run for irn bru and hula hoops
  • [11:03 SLT] Marianne McCann: Talkin about the Ursula stuff
  • [11:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: We're trying to decide if Blondin has any influence over the adult thing whatsoever or if he's just a sacrificial lamb
  • [11:03 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you should read the forum jack :)
  • [11:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: I did. He has said too many things from his own personal stance and used them as answers for me to believe he ISN'T an architect.
  • [11:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Either that or a masochist.
  • [11:03 SLT] Driftwood Miles: mmmm Irn Bru!! nectar of the gods
  • [11:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: He may not be THE architect, but he is certainly one of them.
  • [11:04 SLT] Marianne McCann: Elan - the "word list" thing was a big issue when i saw it. After being in meetings where B and Cyn both made it clear they wanted to avoid making the same old errors of word lists...
  • [11:04 SLT] Marianne McCann: A week later, "poof," here's a dirty word list"
  • [11:04 SLT] Equinox Pinion: Jack, did you already started to take actions against traffic bots?
  • [11:04 SLT] Jack Linden: Blondin is a part of the team that is handling that project, especially the public communications. But the project itself is a company one, not his
  • [11:04 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, Mari, LL is about repeating history instead of learning from it, so I am sure that fits.
  • [11:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but there are "key players", who are the ones architecting it, Jack.
  • [11:05 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: The word list thing will be more effective than people think. You can't advertise V14gra if no-one knows how to search for it
  • [11:05 SLT] Marianne McCann: Tal - true. It's the AOL "Breast" fiasco I had to face back in '95
  • [11:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: The "Company" doesn't do ANYthing on its own.
  • [11:05 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, if you mean senior staff.. then yes.. and that would be Director level and above
  • [11:06 SLT] Qie Niangao covets an org chart
  • [11:06 SLT] Equinox Pinion: but blondin is not able to handle that on its own
  • [11:06 SLT] Marianne McCann: Word lists *never* work. There's always a fatal flaw
  • [11:06 SLT] Talarus Luan: Directors aren't the only ones who can be architects. Often architecture is delegated to lesser members of a teamm.
  • [11:07 SLT] Talarus Luan: Especially when it gets to the details.
  • [11:07 SLT] Jack Linden: Blondin is helping with communications. This was a very big decision as you know, and not something that any one person would own in that sense. We have project managers, engineers, PR and marketing and may more people involved
  • [11:07 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Honestly I dont give a flying footnote who is in charge - I just want to wake up and find it was all a terrible, horrible dream
  • [11:07 SLT] Jack Linden: Blondin is one of many people involved, he just happens to be the one in front of the camera more than others
  • [11:07 SLT] Talarus Luan: Anyway.. I don't care all that much anymore. I'm just back after 10 days of vacation away from this place, determining if it is worth staying or not.
  • [11:07 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Depends on the structural mentality, actually. There seems to be about a 50/50 split these days between companies where the directors provide architecture, and cut tasks up for lower staff, and the other where Senior Engineers provide those decisions straight to management.
  • [11:08 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Either way, it usually comes down to a small group of people making the decision.
  • [11:08 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Anyway, land stuff. What's going on with the land cutting policy? Seems like not much action later. That's the trouble with this policy stuff you have to actively keep doing it forever and ever or it stops working
  • [11:08 SLT] Fontte Newbold: I guess we all would be interested in seeing who's championing the adult stuff internalling. :)
  • [11:08 SLT] Talarus Luan: There was a time, where you sold yourself as just a "front man", like Blondin, Jack. :)
  • [11:08 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Internally, too.
  • [11:08 SLT] Fontte Newbold: (Need my caffeine...)
  • [11:09 SLT] Marianne McCann: I wish I felt that even a 1/8th of the feedback level of the 'bot policy was going into the thoughts behind Ursula. Feedback on itfeels so much like shouting at the clouds
  • [11:09 SLT] Talarus Luan: About this time last year when we first started coming to you with adfarmer/extortionist issues.
  • [11:09 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, last time I reported that we were at about 14,500 16m parcels for sale, down from 16k a couple of weeks before that. We're now at 12k and still falling
  • [11:10 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Really?
  • [11:10 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, everyone loves the bot policy on it's face. Hopefully there'll be quicker action on that than the cutting thing. Although, you know, cutting thing is going OK, just not super fast
  • [11:10 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Is that 12k for sale 16s? Or 12k total 16s?
  • [11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: I think how you see this happening depends on where you look :) but it's going fine
  • [11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: 12k for sale
  • [11:10 SLT] Jack Linden: the total number of them is falling by a similar proportion
  • [11:10 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Any idea if people are just taking them off the market and hoping you guys get bored waiting?
  • [11:10 SLT] Talarus Luan: There's a LOT more that aren't for sale
  • [11:11 SLT] Dytska Vieria: How many of those 12k 16s are owned by the top extortionists?
  • [11:11 SLT] Fontte Newbold: What's the average price range on those that are for sale now?
  • [11:11 SLT] Jack Linden: some are being given back to us, in exchange for large parcels. some are being left, some sold for far lower sums (sometimes to bots)
  • [11:11 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Go bots!
  • [11:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: was glad to see the last 16s cleared out of the Shermerville/Blumfield area finally
  • [11:11 SLT] Qie Niangao: I finally saw some change near me: Plandz finally caved. (Now, if only Primlands would follow, it would make a big dent.)
  • [11:11 SLT] Jack Linden: Dytska, I don't have the exact count but I expect more than half
  • [11:12 SLT] Equinox Pinion: what about traffic bots.....did you start to take actions against them?
  • [11:12 SLT] Yann Dufaux: osrrym style rezing for me :)
  • [11:12 SLT] Yann Dufaux: sorry*
  • [11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: and i wouldn't cal them that :)
  • [11:12 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I've been buying stuff off Primlands, but he said he just owned too much land and had to dump some
  • [11:12 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, what would you call them?
  • [11:12 SLT] Yann Dufaux: yik, i need one other coffee :)
  • [11:12 SLT] Talarus Luan: "Ex-extortionists?"
  • [11:12 SLT] Jack Linden: Equinox.. as per the blog, where we see Land bots causing problems we will deal with them then
  • [11:12 SLT] Marianne McCann: Jack - is there anything specific in place regarding temp rezzers at this point? Curious if there is a point where they are known to impact mainland sim performance.
  • [11:13 SLT] Yann Dufaux: thx Jack, for your decision about this problem of bots :)
  • [11:13 SLT] Marianne McCann: (Referreing specifcially to used to keep somethign "permanentely rezzed")
  • [11:13 SLT] Equinox Pinion: in which way causing problems?
  • [11:13 SLT] Talarus Luan: lag
  • [11:13 SLT] Equinox Pinion: last night i saw a sim with 121 avis on it
  • [11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: Marianne, not sure. I don't think we see many issues from them unless people are rezzing whole houses continually
  • [11:13 SLT] Jack Linden: which does happen sometimes
  • [11:13 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Temp rezzing avatars?
  • [11:13 SLT] Marianne McCann: Equinox - in cases where, for example, a person has a 400+ prim house on a 512m plot
  • [11:13 SLT] Equinox Pinion: found in 1 hour checking 5.000 bots online
  • [11:14 SLT] Jack Linden: yes, exactly that Marianne
  • [11:14 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya, got one of those near Shermerville.
  • [11:14 SLT] Jack Linden: thanks Yann
  • [11:14 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I think the script limits will fix a lot of the temp rez problems. Maybe anyway
  • [11:14 SLT] Equinox Pinion: thats works marianne if the object bonus is according :)
  • [11:14 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: There was a disightion made about bots?
  • [11:14 SLT] Talarus Luan: decision?
  • [11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: Atechwolf, yes.. a recent blog post on the Land blog
  • [11:15 SLT] Talarus Luan: I noted that that blog post was never a "featured" post.
  • [11:15 SLT] Yann Dufaux: @ jack, because if i look some region with abusif bot, i have too many lag, its a very great decision for now :)
  • [11:15 SLT] Talarus Luan: Didn't even know it was there until someone mentioned it.
  • [11:15 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Temp rezzers are a problem, but in general, rezzing any larger build, permanent or temporary has problems, since server 1.25
  • [11:15 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, yeah.. it was supposed to be but there was another Featured one they wanted to leave up
  • [11:16 SLT] Jack Linden: people seem to have found it anyway hehe
  • [11:16 SLT] Talarus Luan: There's a limit?
  • [11:16 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, when the adult thing goes down what will be the mechanism by which people get to move? It seemed in the audio thingy that people would be given land in Ursula AND get to keep their existing parcel or they'd just be asked to sell it on the general market. What's the specifics?
  • [11:16 SLT] Qie Niangao: yeah, it's weird. I hardly ever read any of the "featured" posts; the good stuff is always underneath.
  • [11:16 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: decision, typo demaon has me today.
  • [11:16 SLT] Equinox Pinion: who made the decision that 128sm parcels will not show in search anymore ?
  • [11:16 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: 128sqm parcels never showed in search. Or so says the wiki
  • [11:17 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Now it's just impossible to try to list them anyway
  • [11:17 SLT] Yann Dufaux: hello Asterion! :D
  • [11:17 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I wish I could list all the blogs posts on one page.
  • [11:17 SLT] Equinox Pinion: i see..so you could list them and they were not in search
  • [11:17 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, for those eligible for the free move period, if they want to sell their parcel at that time rather than hand it to us then we're fine with that, or they can hand it to us by abandoning it
  • [11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: If they want to keep their existing plot, but clean the content, then that would be okay too
  • [11:18 SLT] Qie Niangao: holy cow!
  • [11:18 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: So it's not a land swap per se. You're just giving free land to people with adult stores?
  • [11:18 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: About 50 sims worth of free land being given out?
  • [11:18 SLT] Talarus Luan: I hope you all have lots of land in Ursula to swap.
  • [11:18 SLT] Qie Niangao: but with extra tier, folks will dump that land for L$0.0001/m2, if they have to.
  • [11:18 SLT] Jack Linden: We're making the movement of the content, for those most affected. as seamless as possible. basically
  • [11:19 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Obviously I have a number of mainland renters with adult stores. I can swap land too right? To move my renters to ursula?
  • [11:19 SLT] Yann Dufaux: @ Jack: the thing in beta grid is active here to for adult* option in age-verification?
  • [11:19 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Oh very cool Jack!
  • [11:19 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Now will the land have to be owened by an individual or can it be owned by a group?
  • [11:19 SLT] Jack Linden: Ursula (working title only) is a couple of hundred regions in size overall, but only a portion will be live to begin with.. maybe 50 or 70 regions
  • [11:20 SLT] Talarus Luan: O.o
  • [11:20 SLT] Yann Dufaux: because i have noticed with my alt in test, if i don't have make my age verification i don't have accès to adult setting in rating right?
  • [11:20 SLT] Talarus Luan: Is that all you are expecting to swap land?
  • [11:20 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Did I ever tell anyone about my 50 sim pornography store?
  • [11:20 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, without looking at the details, that sounds right
  • [11:20 SLT] Qie Niangao: Elan, if I were you, I'd give the buyer bots a vacation for a while, once that swapping starts.
  • [11:20 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: No, if you were me you'd immediately start 400 adult businesses
  • [11:20 SLT] Jack Linden: We'll deal with groups, depending on the accounts contributing tier (they are effectively the owners of the gorup land)
  • [11:21 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh, i did that already. :p
  • [11:21 SLT] Talarus Luan: Here's a question for you: are you prepared to continue printing "Adult" land as long as it still sells?
  • [11:21 SLT] Talarus Luan: IE, the proper way to deal with land speculators?
  • [11:21 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Mainland is definitely going to zero. All those sims people HAVE to sell fast to avoid doubling up their tier costs? Ugh
  • [11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, it's hard to say but the surveys we did of the Mainland showed only a small percentage of parcels actually have adult content on them
  • [11:22 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ok, wait, one more question. What is the land swap thing going to start?
  • [11:22 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Have to agree there. The economic impact of flipping so much land is going to be a hassle.
  • [11:22 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: *When* not what
  • [11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, it'll grow according to the need for the migration, not just because we want to sell lots
  • [11:22 SLT] Talarus Luan: Because, personally, I bought Mature because I could do whatever I wanted to (within the existing ToS, that is). I think it is only fair that I have the same opportunity as anyone to move to Ursula, if I so wish it.
  • [11:22 SLT] Angela Talamasca: Speaking of doubling up, will there be a grace period to avoid increased tier fees durning the move?
  • [11:22 SLT] Jack Linden: We still have to be very careful about the amount of land for sale
  • [11:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: gotta zip - have fun all!
  • [11:23 SLT] Susie Chaffe: votes with Talarus...
  • [11:23 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I expect it'll all start in June
  • [11:23 SLT] Qie Niangao: by Mari, have fun!
  • [11:23 SLT] Talarus Luan: tata Mari
  • [11:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
  • [11:23 SLT] Dennis Lagan: Jack, it was announced by M linden that this month, Lindenlab would start publishing land data again. there are just a few hours left for the month to be over, but i still didn't see it, besides the the Q1 results, but that was not what he meant... Is this project postponed?
  • [11:23 SLT] Equinox Pinion: bye marianne
  • [11:23 SLT] Jack Linden: Angela, we'll be advising people on how to handle their parcels so they don't double their tier
  • [11:24 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you even promised that too jack
  • [11:24 SLT] Angela Talamasca: great, htx. :-)
  • [11:24 SLT] Angela Talamasca: *thx
  • [11:24 SLT] Jack Linden: Dennis, I'd need to check on that but I believe we still plan to push data live again - I just don't know exactly when it'll be ready
  • [11:24 SLT] Dennis Lagan: well, M knew it
  • [11:24 SLT] Dennis Lagan: so
  • [11:24 SLT] Jack Linden: I would really like to push a lot more data out
  • [11:25 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Why not just turn on the old system again until then? Add a small footnote saying it could be inaccurate. We don't mind
  • [11:25 SLT] Talarus Luan: Jack, you didn't really answer what I was asking.
  • [11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: Because I think it owuld give people a lot more assurance about the stability of the market
  • [11:25 SLT] Jack Linden: But the numbers we push out have to be accurate and very well explained
  • [11:25 SLT] Dennis Lagan: it has always been inacurate, so 6 months more wouldn't make the difference, would just be for the first time inacurate negative for lindenlab.
  • [11:25 SLT] Talarus Luan: Scenario: a few businesses/land owners get swapped for free, the rest of Ursula goes up for auction. prices for all parcels get pushed into the stratosphere.
  • [11:26 SLT] Equinox Pinion: the land market is better to be stable as you had not grow for 5 month
  • [11:26 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, we discussed that but people just keep misinterpreting it and then making decisions on the back of the misunderstanding
  • [11:26 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Depends, maybe LL could promise to print a new sim every time prices go over 10/sqm or something
  • [11:26 SLT] Dennis Lagan: what kind of "descisions " do they make?
  • [11:26 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, that's what I am asking.
  • [11:26 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK, it's fine Jack. I know you're not gonna bring it back.
  • [11:26 SLT] Talarus Luan: Are they willing to regulate the land market from supply-side economics again?
  • [11:27 SLT] Jack Linden: :) Elanthius. We will. I have at least 3 projects on the Land slate that are all about more data for residents in 2009
  • [11:27 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Thing is talarus, the more AO land you print the lower AO land stays but you're going to destroy the regular mainland in the meantime
  • [11:27 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: (Jack, sorry, I meant not bring back old data, I'm sure one day we'll see the new data too)
  • [11:27 SLT] Angela Talamasca: true about making decisions based upon faulty premise bit.
  • [11:28 SLT] Equinox Pinion: guess you forgot to set due dates for these projects *g*
  • [11:28 SLT] Talarus Luan: So? I already expect mainland to go to pot from this.
  • [11:28 SLT] Yann Dufaux: do you have a ruls, for adult sim, i i have more of 30 sim, i need to respect a distance if i add with pg or mature sim?
  • [11:28 SLT] Jack Linden: It wouldn;t make sense for us to throw more adult land out than is needed
  • [11:28 SLT] Talarus Luan: Define "needed"
  • [11:29 SLT] Jack Linden: as in, required for the migration
  • [11:29 SLT] Talarus Luan: By whom? You? or the residents?
  • [11:29 SLT] Moon Corrigible: You dont think others who dont qualify for the migration wont want to go to?
  • [11:29 SLT] Moon Corrigible: I'm thinking particularly of new businesses
  • [11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: I'm thinking of existing businesses who want to have the same rights they do now.
  • [11:30 SLT] Dytska Vieria: Those first to migrate get premium picks
  • [11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: Erm.. excuse me.. "privileges"
  • [11:30 SLT] Jack Linden: Oh sure Moon, and there will be auctions after the free period, but Tal seemed to suggest we would just push out all 200+ regions. Which isn't the way it will work at all
  • [11:30 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Oh doh! I knew that sorry!
  • [11:30 SLT] Talarus Luan: No, I am saying to keep the market supplied to avoid the effects of land speculation.
  • [11:31 SLT] Qie Niangao: Mainland prices would likely tank, even if it were a true swap and LL kept the swapped-out parcel off the auction queue. But with just doubling up the land... god knows what floor the prices will find.
  • [11:31 SLT] Talarus Luan: As long as sims are selling for thousands of dollars, why stop?
  • [11:31 SLT] Jack Linden: The land we inherit on the older areas, we will look at improving by fixing parcelling, adding parks, trees and making larger parcels for auction
  • [11:31 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I can't decide which is best. If you drip them out slowly people will never know when you will stop and they will constantly pay over the odds so they don't miss out. If you print them all at once there will be economic armageddon in the land market
  • [11:31 SLT] Dytska Vieria: zoning too?
  • [11:31 SLT] Jack Linden: Ahh okay Tal, I misunderstood
  • [11:32 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, you won't inherit any older land, everyone will sell it, well anyone with any sense will
  • [11:32 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Theoretically, the middle ground would be to give us a timeline of rollout. And then stick to the deadlines.
  • [11:32 SLT] Talarus Luan: I mean, I already expect to have to throw away my Mature mainland as it is.
  • [11:32 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Not if its going to double their teirs Elanthius
  • [11:32 SLT] Fontte Newbold: [X sims, Y day]
  • [11:32 SLT] Talarus Luan: It will never be worth what it was when I bought it, even in the realm of L$5-7/sqm
  • [11:32 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: You could sell any parcel of any size right now for about L$2.7/sqm
  • [11:33 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Right now true - but we will only have 9 days to move
  • [11:33 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: No-one will abandon unless the market totally fails like some sort of virtual Iceland
  • [11:33 SLT] Moon Corrigible: and you know that during those nine days land prices will be near 0
  • [11:33 SLT] Moon Corrigible: But it should spring back pretty qucikly afterwards
  • [11:33 SLT] Jack Linden: I suppose it depends on how much the land speculators want to take and hold while things settle back down again Elanthius
  • [11:33 SLT] Moon Corrigible looks for wood to knock on
  • [11:33 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Well, I'll stop predicting the future because I definitely agree there's gonna be some crazy unpredictable stuff going down
  • [11:34 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yay Capitalism!
  • [11:34 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Speculators can have a drastic effect. Just look at the real life encominity now.
  • [11:34 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Land speculators, naturally, will want to maximize profit from this. :p
  • [11:34 SLT] Qie Niangao: not seeing that "spring back quickly" thing... with all that new land on the market
  • [11:34 SLT] Angela Talamasca: that's one of the probs i see with landbots. they keep the land prices low by releasing (selling) stuff at 3.2/sqm
  • [11:34 SLT] Dirk Talamasca: Land needs to get back around that 5 L$ level again.. All of the planning around land to provide some incentive to premium members is more than 75% solved when land actually has a value.
  • [11:34 SLT] Fontte Newbold: In this case, they'd be looking to short mainland and long AO land.
  • [11:34 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Well a bunch of it will drop off immediately Quie, as people abandon land in order to avoid paying double tiers
  • [11:34 SLT] Talarus Luan: After the 2 biggest landowners besides myself get to move because they have adult content and advertise it publicly, a good chunk of it will be emptty and remains so
  • [11:35 SLT] Angela Talamasca: makes it tough for the average joes who are not playing in the real estate market.
  • [11:35 SLT] Talarus Luan: Blah.. *empty *remin
  • [11:35 SLT] Talarus Luan: *remain
  • [11:35 SLT] Talarus Luan: landbots do the same thing that their human owners would do themselves.
  • [11:35 SLT] Qie Niangao: yes, if it gets abandoned to the Governor... but if it gets sold for a song, it will just keep rattling around at the bottom of the market, pulling everything down with it.
  • [11:35 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: That's crazy Angela, do you think they're buying land at L$5 and selling it at L$3.2 just to crush the market?
  • [11:35 SLT] Talarus Luan: Automation is not the cause of market fallout.
  • [11:36 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Oh very true Qie - didnt think of htat
  • [11:36 SLT] Talarus Luan: People not willing to pay more when everyone else is selling for less.
  • [11:36 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Qie: and cut and cut and cut as it changes hands
  • [11:36 SLT] Qie Niangao: good point, Elan. :(
  • [11:37 SLT] Talarus Luan: A friend of mine paid over L$10/sqm for 16k sqm of land. He had to sell it for L$3.5/sqm, because it would have never sold at L$5-6
  • [11:37 SLT] Jack Linden: did anyone have anything else they wanted to raise? do shout up if you do
  • [11:37 SLT] Dirk Talamasca: They are also unwilling to hang onto land and improve it and stay on it when there is little loss suffered by simply abandoning land. You make more slums than improvements.
  • [11:37 SLT] Angela Talamasca: of course not elan. people who have very large parcels, sim size, even, sell low bc they need out for whatever reason.
  • [11:38 SLT] Talarus Luan: I dunno, Jack. I would like to believe that LL is going to do right in all this, but all I am seeing is a textbook set up for EPIC FAIL.
  • [11:38 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, it's not clear what will happen when land isn't worth anything. No incentive to keep it or buy it at all.
  • [11:38 SLT] Angela Talamasca: so, they buy them and cut them up. watch the sales, prices start edging up to around 4/sqm, then boom, an influx of 3.2/sqm
  • [11:38 SLT] Talarus Luan: I wish some Linden with a clue would get his PR hat on and sit down with us and give us the truth.
  • [11:38 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh, thaht's kinda me doing that but it's not for the reasons you think.
  • [11:39 SLT] Dennis Lagan: i still see massive amount of traffic bots, seems lindenlab can't handle it themselves, why did you write so clear "we don't need you to fill an abuse report". I do think its abuse, and i do think you fail to solve it on your own.
  • [11:39 SLT] Moon Corrigible: This has probably been answered in the blog but I've mised the answer Jack - if a resident simply wants to move their home to Urusula - not have a business on it but just because they want to live there - will they be eligible for the swap?
  • [11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, hopefully you'll be here talking to us afterwards so we can pick it apart. Lets face it, this is new territory and something we're going to learn from however it goes
  • [11:39 SLT] Angela Talamasca: well, it will take them time to clear out the traffic bots. *laughs*
  • [11:39 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, what I don't understand is why you aren't dealing with us "picking it apart" BEFORE it turns into a mass train wreck.
  • [11:39 SLT] Jack Linden: I think it's going to be challenging to get the migration through, because we don't know how many people will apply for that.. but I think it will settle quite quickly after that point
  • [11:40 SLT] Indigo Mertel: Jack, my group runs a communiy on Mainland. We work hard to make our area a nicer place and we accomplished quite a lot. You said that LL plans to use recovered land to improve Mainland.
  • [11:40 SLT] Talarus Luan: Who wants to stick around to talk about a train wreck after the fact?
  • [11:40 SLT] Indigo Mertel: Would you also take into consideration selling some of that land to communities such as ours?
  • [11:40 SLT] Talarus Luan: It's kinda obvious and pointless after that.
  • [11:40 SLT] Jack Linden: Indigo, most defintiely
  • [11:40 SLT] Talarus Luan: "Yup, it's a train wreck, alright"
  • [11:40 SLT] Jack Linden: ack spellos sorry
  • [11:40 SLT] Indigo Mertel: great, thanks :)
  • [11:41 SLT] Angela Talamasca: hmmm, that's a great idea. have an additional period for offering land to people who don't qual for the free, but would like to buy for a fair val. then, open it up to auctions.
  • [11:41 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Jack... couldnt you set up a preliminary survey of sorts and just ask peple who are intending to apply to put intheir land numbers - just as a preliminary 'we'd like to get a count' sort of a thing
  • [11:41 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, i'm not sensing that you're a giant fan of this. :) But then i could be misreading the signals hehe
  • [11:42 SLT] Moon Corrigible: If you didnt make people stick to the decision I dont think residents would mind
  • [11:42 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: He's being very subtle Jack
  • [11:42 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh Jack, any chance whatsoever you guys won't increase the price of Homesteads at exactly the same time the Aporncalypse takes place?
  • [11:42 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, I just call it as I see it. Show me something that tells me something.. ANYting different.
  • [11:43 SLT] Talarus Luan: I'm not unconvinceable, but PR spin, "statistics", and complete failure to answer questions isn't "doing it" for me.
  • [11:43 SLT] Jack Linden: Elanthius, I think the timing will be earlier for the adult stuff.
  • [11:44 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: June 1st for the estate repricing right?
  • [11:44 SLT] Dennis Lagan: the homestead increase will be a bigger apocalypse then the adult one. approx 7000 sims gone in a few months.
  • [11:44 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I'll be keeping mine Dennis. Not buying anymore any time soon, but keeping the ones I have
  • [11:44 SLT] Jack Linden: July 1st Elanthius
  • [11:44 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Ah, my mistake
  • [11:44 SLT] Talarus Luan: See, the thing is, even though OpenSpaces were a huge debacle, I can understand and (somewhat) support what is happening with them.
  • [11:44 SLT] Dennis Lagan: you might keep them, but many will not elanthius
  • [11:45 SLT] Fontte Newbold: That's actually an interesting observation, Elan.
  • [11:45 SLT] Dennis Lagan: i kept mines too last time, but saw thousands others dissapear
  • [11:45 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: You might as well write off 2009 it's going to be a disaster for LL with all this stuff.
  • [11:45 SLT] Talarus Luan: I have yet to see anything to convince me that this "adult content" push is necessary, let alone the way it is being handled.
  • [11:45 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Just call it a land bailout package. It's easier to remember that way.
  • [11:45 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah well obviously Dennis, just look at M's graphs, full prim sims stable since January or earlier but Homesteads we lost about half of them or something
  • [11:45 SLT] Qie Niangao: hmmm... suppose Homestead exiles will be interested in cheap ex-pr0no Mainland?
  • [11:46 SLT] Talarus Luan: Yeah, they'll be able to practically get it for free.
  • [11:46 SLT] Qie Niangao: one way to get those Premium numbers up. ;)
  • [11:46 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: They'll pick up free Mature land on mainland. At L$1/sqm or whatever it'll be cheaper tier and cheaper buy price than most estates
  • [11:46 SLT] Yann Dufaux: yeah, i think too, with bulk option in 1.23 its very important :)
  • [11:46 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Naa...each time the encomity of SL goes up, they create a new project to try to distroy it. Examples, sim price increase, AC stuff.
  • [11:46 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: :-)
  • [11:47 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Elan: And that's why the speculator's angle is relevant. Though, shouldn't this make you happy? :p
  • [11:47 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Fontte: sure, I'm hoping to make a killing on this Ao thing. I'm pretty sure there'll never be enough so I just need to buy tons and people will be begging me for it
  • [11:47 SLT] Driftwood Miles: It's not a case of trying to destroy...more a case of squeezing more juice out of the lemon!!!
  • [11:47 SLT] Fontte Newbold: It's a big, one-sided market flux that's going to make a lot of people rich.
  • [11:48 SLT] Talarus Luan: I think one big question on my mind is this: presuming it turns out to be nearly as bad as the worst we're expecting, what is LL's "backup strategy"?
  • [11:48 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, I was speaking earlier from the perspective of the general resident. For me personally this could be way awesome
  • [11:48 SLT] Fontte Newbold nodnods
  • [11:48 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you really think they know what a strategy is tal :)
  • [11:48 SLT] Talarus Luan: What are you going to say to us when this thing goes completely off the rails?
  • [11:49 SLT] Uni Ninetails: oops?
  • [11:49 SLT] Talarus Luan: If you all haven't had a discussion about what to do when it does, I think you better plan one, and soon.
  • [11:49 SLT] Fontte Newbold: "We'll sell you your land back at 1.5 times markup?"
  • [11:49 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: What's the worst case scenario Talarus? Lose half the residents, mainland prices are near 0 but people are still paying tier, estates still largely exist. Then just build from there. It won't be all that bad
  • [11:49 SLT] Dennis Lagan: as usual, they will say its all fine. and better then expected even
  • [11:50 SLT] Qie Niangao: Well, the Governor could decide to start buying Mainland.
  • [11:50 SLT] Jack Linden: this isn't a decision that is going to be reversed, we feel it's very important that we make this change. if the actual implementation goes awry, then of course we'll make changes as needed to get through that but fundamentally it will still happen
  • [11:50 SLT] Fontte Newbold: As far as I can tell, we're looking at a whole lot of short term market flux. Elan actually had a good point, about the timing of the Homestead repricing.
  • [11:50 SLT] Talarus Luan: With half the residents, half the mainland will likely go abandoned, with no one paying tier on it.
  • [11:50 SLT] Equinox Pinion: and not only that...for the first time they will have real competiion showing up this year
  • [11:51 SLT] Fontte Newbold: If I was playing the numbers, I'd bet that'd push a lot of people back to mainland pricing.
  • [11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: Well, the thing is, if the implementation goes awry, and the only fix is reversing it, are you willing to live with it being "broken" going forward?
  • [11:51 SLT] Talarus Luan: If so, that tells me what I needed to know.
  • [11:51 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Half I would think is conservative....age verification will be the new black....and Ursula (Project Name ) the new cash cow
  • [11:51 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Thus setting up a terrific profit for anyone looking to buy parcels cheap after people start the move to Ursula.
  • [11:52 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Just saying. :p
  • [11:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: What could possibly happen that would make it necessary to reverse the migration? Can't think of anything.
  • [11:52 SLT] Talarus Luan: because, I am telling you now, I'm ready to press the "Abandon" button right now and walk away.
  • [11:52 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, so what, oldbies quit all the time. It's never as earth shattering as the oldbie thinks
  • [11:53 SLT] Talarus Luan: If it is THAT broken, and you STILL insist that it is the "right path", then what's the point in staying?
  • [11:53 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you tlak like a linden elan lol
  • [11:53 SLT] Talarus Luan: I never said it was "earth shattering".
  • [11:53 SLT] Talarus Luan: Point it, I don't think I would be the only one, and it won't all be "oldbies" doing it.
  • [11:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: Some folks are already throwing in the towel.
  • [11:54 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, yo udon't know how this will go, i really do think that we need to go into the process and judge it as it unfolds - not weeks before it has even started
  • [11:54 SLT] Equinox Pinion: and what will you do if it fails....Tal was asking for a backup
  • [11:54 SLT] Talarus Luan: I don't need to "know" how it will go to do a risk analysis of what you are doing.
  • [11:55 SLT] Jack Linden: I know people are concerned, and when there are big changes like this it can be really difficult, but Second Life has changed hugely and often over the last few years.
  • [11:55 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Well, speaking personally, my gripe is whether you guys have inspected the speculator angle, and calculated out what the market will do when you start dumping large swaths of sims.
  • [11:55 SLT] Driftwood Miles: is there an expectation Jack that age verification will be carried out by the vast majority of new joins?
  • [11:55 SLT] Fontte Newbold: As long as you keep rollout in manageable bites, it should be OK.
  • [11:55 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Not gonna lie, I'm quite excited about speculating on this stuff
  • [11:55 SLT] Talarus Luan: So, Jack, CONVINCE me, or at least help me CONVINCE MYSELF that my risk analysis is flawed.
  • [11:56 SLT] Yann Dufaux: @jack: i have noticed some interesting changement or some bad changement, but its the ruls of evolution now :)
  • [11:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: I keep asking for that, and you and Blondin, and every other Linden are just handing me more rope.
  • [11:56 SLT] Jack Linden: Driftwood, for people coming in they wil have a huge grid to explore even without being verified, but if they *choose* to explore the adult areas then they will be able to verify and do that
  • [11:56 SLT] Talarus Luan: A huge, EMPTY grid to explore
  • [11:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I like "will be able" instead of "absolutely must". it's removing options and freedom
  • [11:57 SLT] Dennis Lagan: what percentage is currently age verified?
  • [11:57 SLT] Talarus Luan: Zero
  • [11:57 SLT] Moon Corrigible: And payment information used will still count toward age verification yes?
  • [11:57 SLT] Talarus Luan: There's no way to verify age.
  • [11:57 SLT] Talarus Luan: with assurance
  • [11:57 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: That's definitely the verbiage that pisses me off most. This isn't about adding options or giving people freedom, you're taking away freedom and adding restrictions
  • [11:57 SLT] Fontte Newbold: As an aside, I hope this means you'll have a more strict policy on banlines, considering people will have fewer reasons for "privacy" on the mainland. :P
  • [11:57 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Agreed Tal and thats my point......i know we should not judge but a migration would not be my guess...more exodus
  • [11:57 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I've tried to age verfify. I'me 40+ and failed.
  • [11:57 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, there are 200 adult regions and we don't expect to use all of those for a while. the grid is tens of thousands of regions.. how would the grid possibly be empty?
  • [11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: That makes no sense at all
  • [11:58 SLT] Fontte Newbold: And yeah, I agree on the verbiage.
  • [11:58 SLT] Equinox Pinion: just put payment info in and you are verified
  • [11:58 SLT] Talarus Luan: By people like me leaving because we're fed up with LL's bullshit
  • [11:58 SLT] Qie Niangao: Fontte: in 1.23 viewer, you can make the banlines invisible. unfortunately, vehicles still see them. :(
  • [11:58 SLT] Jack Linden: all premiums already have payment info with us, and they are the Mainland owners
  • [11:58 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Well, if you give away 50 and auction them off in the right way prices will hit L$50/sqm and of course you won't use them all up. But if you do it a different way they will immediately be full and people will be begging for more
  • [11:58 SLT] Fontte Newbold: One of my consistent gripes with the blog, and Linden interaction in general these days, is it's filled with buzzwords and spin. We'd like honest assessment and discussion, not lawyerspeak. :D
  • [11:58 SLT] Dirk Talamasca: JIRA that Qie
  • [11:58 SLT] Talarus Luan: I have a half sim now. It ain't much, but it is a half sim more of empty space when I am gone.
  • [11:59 SLT] Qie Niangao: hehehe
  • [11:59 SLT] Yann Dufaux: Qie, yes jira it, with clear reprod i need for test: )
  • [11:59 SLT] Driftwood Miles: I am missing something...Ursula is purely for business....not for residential??
  • [11:59 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Wait, scratch my last statement. No matter how many you print, if you auction them in any reasonable way you will sell every single one
  • [12:00 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: How will you know if you don't need anymore?
  • [12:00 SLT] Jack Linden: Tal, the number of people who have told me they are very upset about this is less than 10 (and I get a huge number of IMs). If this is as unpopular as you think then it's not reflected in the support calls, tickets, etc. We know that for some people this isn't a popular move, but that doesn't mean everyone
  • [12:00 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: If you auction a system and people bid on it then is that a sign you need to auction another?
  • [12:00 SLT] Talarus Luan: Less than 10?? O.o Read the forums much??
  • [12:00 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you really have to read the forums jack!!!
  • [12:01 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack, come on there's more than 10 people in THIS ROOM that are very upset about it
  • [12:01 SLT] Equinox Pinion: lol
  • [12:01 SLT] Moon Corrigible: Jack... dearest... I'm very upset about this *g*
  • [12:01 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Speaking of the forums. I'd really like the old RSS link to be re-enabled. :P
  • [12:01 SLT] Dennis Lagan: you are now talking about mainland owners, but estate sims will have to be flagged adult too from time to time... and people want to buy their sex poseballs, so they need to get there somehow jack. and yes, they come ALSO for other things then sex, just the question is how many come for everything but sex.
  • [12:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Do you want to publicly announced that you're tallying dissent? I can have your inbox full in a few hours.
  • [12:01 SLT] Jack Linden: I do read the forums, I was talking about the direct IMs I get. As i said, I know some people are unhappy about it but that doesn't mean everyone is
  • [12:01 SLT] Fontte Newbold: So I can do some parsing on all the topics without reading all the BAAAAWWWWWW threads. :D
  • [12:01 SLT] Talarus Luan: Jack, people don't KNOW to tell you that.
  • [12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: *I* haven't IMed you about it.
  • [12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: So I guess I am not in that "less than 10" figure?
  • [12:02 SLT] Yann Dufaux: sorry jack, i need to leave for french localization meeting , but i'm back in next week! :)
  • [12:02 SLT] Qie Niangao: it's true: I've now heard from one person in-world who supports it, and there were a couple posting on the forums.
  • [12:02 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I personally know of three sim owner that are VERY UPSET on how the AC is being done.
  • [12:02 SLT] Equinox Pinion: geeez....most people are unhappy about it jack
  • [12:02 SLT] Talarus Luan: See? that's what I am talking about.. CLUELESS!!
  • [12:02 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Come on jack, that's crazy. I don't randomly IM Lindens to tell them I'm unhappy about something. I post on the forums or the blog and hope you guys read it
  • [12:02 SLT] Equinox Pinion: you just dont know the market !!
  • [12:02 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Have you considered, y'know.
  • [12:02 SLT] Equinox Pinion: or what is really going on in sl
  • [12:02 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Starting a vote thread on it? :P
  • [12:02 SLT] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Jack, are you disusaional? Oh wait...nevermind..
  • [12:02 SLT] Uni Ninetails: 2 estate owners, 3 sims owners, myself and about 20 residents. not happy.
  • [12:02 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: On the forums there were over 6000 posts and maybe three posters were actively for the change
  • [12:02 SLT] Fontte Newbold: So we had a somewhat accurate number of for and against?
  • [12:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: Jack, announce the policy on the login screen and take a poll.
  • [12:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: Go on. I DARE you.
  • [12:03 SLT] Equinox Pinion: yes good idea tal
  • [12:03 SLT] Jack Linden: Ack, sadly I have to go to my next meeting. I think this will be, ultimately, a good change and I'm happy to own that it will be difficult for some people
  • [12:03 SLT] Fontte Newbold: The fact is, this sort of change is traditionally seen as negative. It pisses people off to have to move their established businesses.
  • [12:03 SLT] Fontte Newbold: I mean, come on.
  • [12:03 SLT] Talarus Luan: I think you will get a few more than "less than 10".
  • [12:03 SLT] Jack Linden: And we'll do all we can to make it less difficult.
  • [12:03 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Look at all the .xxx legislation that failed.
  • [12:03 SLT] Fontte Newbold: HUGE negative backlash.
  • [12:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: I'll tell everyone to IM you and tell you they are unhappy
  • [12:03 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: LEss dificult, bah
  • [12:03 SLT] Elanthius Flagstaff: Or happy as the case may be
  • [12:04 SLT] Jack Linden: and i guess we'll soon know how it goes :)
  • [12:04 SLT] Talarus Luan: OK. That's all I needed to know. Thanks, Jack. :)
  • [12:04 SLT] Fontte Newbold: If you're going to go ahead with this change, at the very least be honest about it. :)
  • [12:04 SLT] Dirk Talamasca: I only message Jack for chocolate.
  • [12:04 SLT] Talarus Luan: Anyone interested in half a sim of Mature mainland?
  • [12:04 SLT] Uni Ninetails: im jack for free lindens XD
  • [12:04 SLT] Jack Linden: sorry to cut out mid conversation, i feel like these could be 3 hours and we'd still not be done
  • [12:04 SLT] Dirk Talamasca: Thanks Jack!!
  • [12:04 SLT] Equinox Pinion: take care jack
  • [12:04 SLT] Uni Ninetails: tah
  • [12:04 SLT] Angela Talamasca: true!
  • [12:04 SLT] Asterion Coen: jack :)
  • [12:04 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Welcome to meetings. :D
  • [12:04 SLT] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack.
  • [12:04 SLT] Fontte Newbold: Have a good one.
  • [12:04 SLT] Jack Linden: hehe
  • [12:05 SLT] Angela Talamasca: bye jack, and thanks! :-)
  • [12:05 SLT] Indigo Mertel: where, Talarus? :)
  • [12:05 SLT] Talarus Luan: Great Pubnico
  • [12:05 SLT] Driftwood Miles: Bye Jack

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