User:Nyx Linden/Office Hours Transcript 2010-09-29

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List of Attendees

Transcript

[12:02] Nyx Linden: hi all
[12:02] Cummere Mayo: hey nyx :)
[12:02] Kitsune Shan: Hello!! o(^-^o)
[12:02] paulie Femto: Nyx! woof. :)
[12:02] xstorm Radek: and even if you did and they told you they will no longer be on Gteam
[12:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Nyx :-)
[12:02] lonetorus Habilis: hey nyx
[12:02] xstorm Radek: hi Nyx
[12:02] Ashasekayi Ra: me waves to Nyx
[12:02] Reed Steamroller: the star has arrived
[12:02] TriJin Bade: /me lifts an idle hand with a lazy wave.
[12:02] Jerbens Jarman: Hello
[12:02] Sirius Cleghorn: woohoo
[12:02] lonetorus Habilis: i brought a baseball bat, and its not for playing baseball
[12:02] Aargle Zymurgy: are we having fun yet?
[12:11] Nyx Linden: I'm asking about status now
[12:11] Kopilo Hallard: increasing the limit on physical vechicles also effects sim crossings
[12:11] Cummere Mayo: nyx can you up the avatar limit please?
[12:11] Cummere Mayo: region is full
[12:11] Aargle Zymurgy: Cummere, if someon needs in, I have work to do, so I'm headed away
[12:11] Kopilo Hallard: I just came in, first tp tried
[12:11] Aargle Zymurgy: bye all
[12:12] Kopilo Hallard: awes byes
[12:12] Ashasekayi Ra: Adios Aargle
[12:12] Cummere Mayo: tc aargle
[12:12] Rex Cronon: tc
[12:12] Sirius Cleghorn: aww kk bye aargle
[12:12] Sirius Cleghorn: tc
[12:12] Nyx Linden: response to topic 2 is: "<falcon> If your physics (or maybe it's total, not sure--it should probably be physics if it isn't) prim /cost/ is <32, you will be able to use it as a vehicle "
[12:12] The Nerd: oh hi
[12:13] Marcthur Goosson: how does primcount work with meshes?
[12:13] Nyx Linden: so as long as the physics representation of your vehicle is less than 32 prims, even if the display complexity is more complicated, you can still use it as a vehicle
[12:13] Rex Cronon: i know this is not on the top list, but would u nyx consider having your oh at a sim corner?
[12:14] TriJin Bade: i would think that the actual model mesh isnt important but the collision mesh should be as low as possible.
[12:14] Nyx Linden: Rex: beginning to consider it :)
[12:14] Reed Steamroller: physical complexity of 32 prims would be pretty high
[12:14] Reed Steamroller: just FYI
[12:14] Reed Steamroller: very complex
[12:14] lonetorus Habilis: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh_Walkthrough:_Understanding_Mesh_Costs
[12:15] Reed Steamroller: like, stupid complex
[12:15] Sirius Cleghorn: true, but that should be good enough for like 99% of possible vehicles
[12:15] Nyx Linden: mesh -> prim calculation is still under discussion atm. we're going to be changing things a bit
[12:15] Eata Kitty: well the limit has always caused problems for vehicles in the past
[12:15] Eata Kitty: if its entirely about physics then we might as well detach it
[12:15] Eata Kitty: Now we have a chance
[12:15] Reed Steamroller: size having an effect on prim cost is still retarded IMHO
[12:15] Sirius Cleghorn: yea
[12:15] Reed Steamroller: always will be
[12:15] Morgaine Dinova: Zero's gone now, you might actually be allowed to make sims scale if you wanted ;-)
[12:15] Nyx Linden: it actually makes a degree of sense Reed
[12:16] Reed Steamroller: yeah but there are counter arguments
[12:16] Jerbens Jarman: Well, as far as I know, the prim limit on physical objects isn't SL based, but rather a limit on the Havok engine
[12:16] Tensai Hilra: yea, a mesh ring with 5000 verticies worth 2 prims :/
[12:16] Reed Steamroller: have you guys done testing w/ it?
[12:16] Reed Steamroller: like the way runitai did w/ filling that sim up with mesh objects
[12:17] Reed Steamroller: for fps testing
[12:17] Nyx Linden: Reed: the design is a proposal right now, we're working on coding it up before we can test it :)
[12:17] Morgaine Dinova: The Nerd: the approved way of getting out is to go around people, not through them.
[12:17] Sirius Cleghorn: hahaha
[12:17] Nyx Linden: things are still in flux
[12:17] Marcthur Goosson: tnx
[12:17] Reed Steamroller: full disclosure, qarl is the one whispering in my ear on this subject
[12:17] Nyx Linden: mesh is not "done", nor will it be by the time we reach open beta
[12:17] Reed Steamroller: yeah
[12:18] Nyx Linden: we're trying to get it in the hands of our users *before* things are finalized
[12:18] Ashasekayi Ra: So, you guys might drop the scale association with prim count... in theory?
[12:18] Nyx Linden: so that we can take feedback into account for making decisions
[12:18] Oken Hax: how long will the open beta last ? ( sorry if it's already been asked )
[12:18] Reed Steamroller: i.e. this is the time for complaints!
[12:18] Reed Steamroller: <3 nyx
[12:18] Reed Steamroller: :D
[12:18] TriJin Bade: would the lindogram mass be based on the mesh or the collision mesh?
[12:18] Latif Khalifa: to drop scale -> primcount association one needs to talk some sense into Falcon first ;)
[12:18] Ashasekayi Ra: heh
[12:19] Nyx Linden: complaints are less helpful than well-reasoned arguments for why we're being dumb :)
[12:19] Reed Steamroller: i'm not saying you're being dumb by any means
[12:19] Reed Steamroller: you all have good arguments on the whole matter
[12:19] Ashasekayi Ra: One good argument is the mass chaos it will start with customers.
[12:19] Eata Kitty: I just hope the limits aren't too strict
[12:19] Eata Kitty: They don't sound it so far
[12:20] Latif Khalifa: Changing prim count on resizing objects violates the principle of least astonishment, badly.
[12:20] xstorm Radek: Reed little can take place with the lack of words and thinking on your part by calling others dumb
[12:20] Morgaine Dinova: Absence of mass chaos means that nothing's moving forward.
[12:20] Latif Khalifa: (and it has very dubious technical merit)
[12:20] The Nerd: oh hi ju :>
[12:20] Marcthur Goosson: how many polys can be attached witjout loosing normal av functionailty?
[12:20] Reed Steamroller: its just so un-intuitive (if thats a word) that the effects of scalling mesh objects should be thoroughly tested before such a drastic measures (like affecting prim cost) are made
[12:20] Ju Weissnicht: oh hallo nerd person
[12:20] Jerbens Jarman: wait, so are you saying that when a person scales a mesh, the prim count changes?
[12:20] Reed Steamroller: i didn't call anybody dumb!
[12:20] Cummere Mayo: nyx, you guys arent always being dumb, you do some things that are far from dumb but jsut not usable
[12:20] Reed Steamroller: nyx>smart
[12:20] Ashasekayi Ra: Yes Jerben...it can.
[12:21] Ju Weissnicht: hi lone :)
[12:21] Nyx Linden: Latif - the reasons for scaling cost based on size are fairly well-reasoned actually I think, from a technical perspective
[12:21] Jerbens Jarman: in world, even? so how do we know what the prim cost will be in world?
[12:22] Jerbens Jarman: post uploading, I mean
[12:22] Nyx Linden: we'll have build tools to show you prim cost
[12:22] Eata Kitty: I don't think we should complain too much about scaling until we find out what the limits are like
[12:22] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, Falcon refuses to do a simulation where it proves how big the effect is. It's just "he knows that it does" without providing any numbers.
[12:22] Ashasekayi Ra: Yes, inworld. But, you can see the cost in the edit window like any other time.
[12:22] Tensai Hilra: you will see alot of people revert to mega-sculpties... just a thought
[12:22] Nyx Linden: Latif: I'm actually talking about streaming cost atm, though physics cost is a related discussion
[12:22] Jerbens Jarman: I'm not complaining, I'm just genuniely curious as to how this works
[12:22] TriJin Bade: understandable, seeing as just one model can span a whole region.
[12:23] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, I have no problem with streaming cost, but scale cost, ie resizing mesh object will make it cost more
[12:23] Jerbens Jarman: Let's say the prim count in a sim is almost tapped and someone scales a mesh enough that the prim count increases: what would happen?
[12:23] Gianna Borgnine: I'm not very technical... so maybe this is a stupid questions, but why if you scale a mesh it will effect prim cost, but if you scale a sculpted prim or plain prim it does not?
[12:23] Nyx Linden: Latif: if you scale an object up to be large, that means there's a larger radius at which we have to send out the highest LOD of that mesh
[12:23] Reed Steamroller: yeah, having an larger object will enhance its chances of being displayed at highest LoD... so thats a pretty good argument for raising its prim count
[12:24] Ashasekayi Ra: They said they will code that so it doesn't happen Jerbens
[12:24] xstorm Radek: not all prims are the same and the sim there in may diff dramticly
[12:24] Reed Steamroller: is the LoD shown dependent on size or screen space?
[12:24] Rex Cronon: what will happen with megaprims? will each be worth a 100 prims:(
[12:24] Nyx Linden: Gianna: we cant change the way normal prims are counted, as it would break content.
[12:24] Tensai Hilra: heres an idea... Since so far once cant upscale over 10 meters, make downscaling discount prims... not add on increase.
[12:24] Gianna Borgnine: I see
[12:24] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, you could apply the same reasoning for any object. The argument just does not hold watter and will be a big source fo WTF
[12:24] TriJin Bade: wouldn't the implementation of mesh-prim count and a seperate normal prim count be an swer?
[12:24] The Nerd: where is runitai >.>
[12:24] Reed Steamroller: lol
[12:25] The Nerd: would be cool to have him here
[12:25] Nyx Linden: Tensai: not a chance :) that would make really really complex jewelry really cheap
[12:25] Reed Steamroller: yes, runitai should share in this beating lol
[12:25] Morgaine Dinova: I'm just worried that you take this great step of bringing SL into the big world of meshes, and then nerf it to hell with limits and restrictions that are far too onerous.
[12:25] Qie Niangao: maybe trying too hard to keep the primcount low for smaller things; simpler to just assume every view will require highest LOD regardless of scale?
[12:25] Tensai Hilra: not if they adhere to the LOD
[12:25] Gianna Borgnine: Falcone should share in this beating
[12:25] Reed Steamroller: lol
[12:25] Gianna Borgnine: Falcon*
[12:25] Nyx Linden: Latif: I'd love to apply it to normal prims as well
[12:25] Reed Steamroller: <3 lindens
[12:25] Nyx Linden: Tensai:: its much harder to LOD prims well
[12:26] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, that's so you would make a cube that is 10x10x10 say "const" 3 prims, where 1x1x1 would cost 1?
[12:26] Nyx Linden: we can LOD each prim individually, but linksets of a large number of prims don't get down to small enough amounts of geometry to draw
[12:26] Tensai Hilra: heh, fool with the prim model asnd alot of people will not be pleased
[12:26] Latif Khalifa: cost
[12:26] Tensai Hilra: its a fragile line one walks on when degrading the value/product margin
[12:26] Nyx Linden: Latif: the exact numbers and scaling aren't determined yet.
[12:27] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, I know that lol. It's the principle
[12:27] Reed Steamroller: well, i'm very interested on where it goes
[12:27] Tensai Hilra: frankly, my personal opinion is it should be static on vertex counts
[12:27] Nyx Linden: that's the proposal - applied only to mesh objects though.
[12:27] Reed Steamroller: nyx, can you handle rendering related questions, as in can i put it on the topic list?
[12:27] Nyx Linden: I can try :)
[12:27] Reed Steamroller: k
[12:27] TriJin Bade: <--- agrees with Tensai
[12:27] Tensai Hilra: that way if they make it insane ly detailed... it costs more prims
[12:28] Nyx Linden: we're getting a bit off topic, though its an interesting topic. can some one add it to the agenda and we'll get back to it?
[12:28] GeneJ Composer: So, y'all are gonna come up with a starting point, for public beta, and use comments and experience with same to finalize this part of the mesh implementation, right?
[12:28] Rex Cronon: is not such a big stretch of imagination to think that this will also be applied to megaprims:(
[12:29] Nyx Linden: Genej - we're hoping to use feedback to help inform our decisions. Though we have to keep technical and business constraints in mind too
[12:29] Reed Steamroller: k done
[12:29] GeneJ Composer: Cool.
[12:29] Reed Steamroller: its there!
[12:29] Ashasekayi Ra: Probably not sense megaprims are old content.
[12:29] Ashasekayi Ra: *since
[12:29] Nyx Linden: ok moving on for now
[12:29] lonetorus Habilis: rex, unlikely, as theya re regular prims, and it would probably break the grid if suddenly they cost more prims to rez
[12:29] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Will scripting support changing an object between different meshes? "
[12:30] Kitsune Shan: with the meshes in inventory please...
[12:30] Nyx Linden: /me knows where this feature will lead
[12:30] Sirius Cleghorn: would be nice, would that allow like mesh morphing too?
[12:30] Ashasekayi Ra: /me snorts
[12:30] Reed Steamroller: Nyx
[12:30] Morgaine Dinova: Or generalize the question, what can scripts do with meshes?
[12:30] Reed Steamroller: it will be painful
[12:30] Reed Steamroller: to see
[12:30] Eata Kitty: /me heavily uses sculpt morphing in products
[12:30] Reed Steamroller: I'd rather be blind
[12:30] Sirius Cleghorn: yea, that would be nice to know ;)
[12:30] Nyx Linden: its a terrible way to do mesh animation. absolutely terrible from a technical standpoint
[12:30] TriJin Bade: if we can "morph" sculpts then I believe it will be expected to change mesh via script.
[12:31] Kopilo Hallard: Morgaine: switch which mesh is being used?
[12:31] Sirius Cleghorn: woot
[12:31] Flight Feather: All Go
[12:31] Oken Hax: it's a terrible way, but we kind of need a way to animate meshes
[12:31] Tensai Hilra: yea, using sculptmaps as frames in an animation is being used now
[12:31] Kopilo Hallard: it's terrible from a visual standpoint too :p
[12:31] Sirius Cleghorn: hahaha
[12:31] Morgaine Dinova: Kopilo: yeah but as Nyx says, that's Teh Utter Yuck as a means of animation
[12:31] Jerbens Jarman: The mouth on my avatar is a good example of what can be done with sculpties.
[12:31] skidz Tweak: I would love it myself :)
[12:31] Sirius Cleghorn: great
[12:31] lonetorus Habilis: i have tested the following with mesh. scripts can manipulate texture "sides" (material id) colour, glow, scale, rotation, position,
[12:31] Nyx Linden: I don't doubt it will be done, but its atrocious
[12:31] Kopilo Hallard: there is more you can use changing mesh for than animation
[12:32] Jerbens Jarman: personally, I think it may be the advantage of using sculpt maps over meshes for the time being
[12:32] Kitsune Shan: yeah
[12:32] Sirius Cleghorn: true
[12:32] TriJin Bade: morph meshes lead to some interesting oceans and countless other things.
[12:32] Reed Steamroller: nyx agreed
[12:32] Kopilo Hallard: such as updating avatars...
[12:32] Nyx Linden: Koplio - I know, and there are some very valid use cases
[12:32] Reed Steamroller: thats why you guys need to get rigged objects going asap
[12:32] Nyx Linden: and I have no problem with the valid use cases
[12:32] Eata Kitty: Sorry I think this has been misinrepreted. I was asking as I heavily use scultps right now for changing parts, like 50 sculpts can change into several hundred sculpts worth of options, without hiding them in alpha for example
[12:32] Ashasekayi Ra: Maybe it will get those custom bones pushed out for sure :D
[12:32] Nyx Linden: but I know the feature would also be used for mesh animation
[12:32] Eata Kitty: I'm not asking for animation
[12:32] lonetorus Habilis: well, who needs mesh "namimation" (costly on streaming resources) when we can have arbitary bones and can thus animate our meshes this way
[12:32] Nyx Linden: and that makes tiny robots cry :(
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: rigged objects nyx
[12:33] Kopilo Hallard: can't protect the user from killing themselves
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: DO IT
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: why would mesh animation be a bad thing?
[12:33] Kitsune Shan: lol
[12:33] Ashasekayi Ra: We don't have arbitary bones yet.
[12:33] Qie Niangao: but we need "bones" unassociated with avatars.
[12:33] Nyx Linden: rigged objects are much much better
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: yes
[12:33] The Nerd: sculpt animations like texture animations would have been cool
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: so we'll need that by friday k thnx
[12:33] Kopilo Hallard: so build a mesh animation framework :p
[12:33] The Nerd: you could have done that completely clientside
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: :D
[12:33] Nyx Linden: we have rigged meshes for avatars already
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: yaaaaah
[12:33] Kopilo Hallard: then they won't use hackety hack methods
[12:33] Reed Steamroller: but we need objects
[12:33] lonetorus Habilis: sirius, due to the cost of sending the new mesh to each av in view distance
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: that sounds good
[12:33] Nyx Linden: doing non-avatar rigging and arbitrary skeletons will take a while though
[12:33] Tensai Hilra: not everyone is an avatar
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: aah
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: tue
[12:33] Sirius Cleghorn: true
[12:34] Reed Steamroller: but it is on the list somewhere, is it not?
[12:34] TriJin Bade: would the face detection work in script? or would it just return face zero...
[12:34] Ashasekayi Ra: Is it on the roadmap?
[12:34] Nyx Linden: and I fear we'll get a host of mesh animation products that use the hacky version in the meantime
[12:34] Oken Hax: will none-avatar rigging be limited ( in number of custom bones ? )
[12:34] Marcthur Goosson: how many rigged polys can be attached without loosing basic avatar functionalty
[12:34] Morgaine Dinova: Will scavripts be able to make meshes that are already loaded disappear and reapper, by operating on some root point?
[12:34] lonetorus Habilis: how are av morph points handled in regards to rigged meshes?
[12:34] Tensai Hilra: So what you are proposing is that everyone use 20 stacked meshes to alpha out all but the frame they want, RATHER than render a Single mesh that changes?
[12:35] Nyx Linden: avatar morph parameters that affect the skeleton of the avatar will affect rigged attachments
[12:35] lonetorus Habilis: ok
[12:35] lonetorus Habilis: will my rigged jacket, follow my av form, if i morph to a larger av shape
[12:35] Nyx Linden: Tensai - I'm saying I don't want people to do that
[12:35] Tensai Hilra: and they will if they cannot change the base mesh via script.
[12:35] Nyx Linden: morph parameters that don't affect the skeleton won't have any effect on rigged attachments
[12:35] Tensai Hilra: you will see clouds of unsused meshed 100% alpha waiting for their turn
[12:36] Kopilo Hallard: there is another option if you want to enforce it...
[12:36] Reed Steamroller: lonetorus, it only applies to changes in the skeletal structure of the AV, like broadening the shoulders or something, something that widens/shortens the distance between two joints
[12:36] Ashasekayi Ra: lonetorus, it will move with the skeleton but not the morphs(such as lovehandles...etc)
[12:36] Adeon Writer: Rigged mesh objects that can play .bvh's from their inventory invoked by script.
[12:36] Kopilo Hallard: called global cooldown *shudders*
[12:36] Nyx Linden: alpha objects are even worse o.0
[12:36] Kopilo Hallard: xD
[12:36] xstorm Radek: lol
[12:36] Sirius Cleghorn: global cooldown?
[12:36] Eata Kitty: iAlthough it could be used for animation i asked because right now rather than having parts attached as alpha and swapped visibility for different options I use a more efficient route of actually changing the entire sculpts. It saves on prim count and the amount data a client has to know about. If meshes can't be changed into other meshes that is going to heavily limit how you can make objects change
[12:36] Tensai Hilra: yea, bad/worse situation nyx... the load time from cache for an animated mesh, is likely an easier prospect
[12:36] The Nerd: mm mesh based fillrate crashers
[12:36] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: I think it's important that you show what's probably coming in rigging, to prevent people doing silly things like they did with tiny folding.
[12:37] xstorm Radek: alpha is the past and alpha was a error bug to start with
[12:37] GeneJ Composer: :(
[12:37] Kopilo Hallard: effectively a sleep in the script, which prevents it from doing anything for n seconds, rather nasty
[12:37] Sirius Cleghorn: ah
[12:37] xstorm Radek: why even think of it
[12:37] xstorm Radek: lol
[12:37] Kopilo Hallard: lol
[12:37] xstorm Radek: ;-)
[12:37] Eata Kitty: Take for example a car, it could have multiple styles of body work, like a hood with a blower through it or a flat hood. Without being able to change parts, if you want to do that you have to have both attached and alpha, then swap them, which is very inefficient all around and raises your prim count
[12:37] Nyx Linden: ok, we have a *ton* of topics. I feel I've missed some questions on this one though.
[12:37] Morgaine Dinova: If rigging doesn't appear to be coming, as no play known, we'll end up with mesh flipping, and a lot of pain.
[12:38] Oken Hax: kopilo > scripts delays are always bypassed by using many scripts, it's a method that doesn't work :/
[12:38] Tensai Hilra: AND physics impact kitty
[12:38] Morgaine Dinova: no plan* known
[12:38] xstorm Radek: Nyx its ok to miss stuff
[12:38] Qie Niangao: Tensai: we can always just llSetScale the lil rascals, instead of swapping alpha... that'll up the lag, though
[12:38] Kopilo Hallard: Eata: it would be better to hide the prims inside the vechicle and increase size/set pos on request
[12:38] Kopilo Hallard: than to use alpha
[12:38] Reed Steamroller: then again, that would effect prim cost
[12:38] Tensai Hilra: yea, the mesh is still there... eating resources... too many and people crash
[12:38] xstorm Radek: no one will ever know you did any way
[12:38] Kopilo Hallard: but alpha is much easier to use
[12:38] lonetorus Habilis: eata, this is already done on some shoes, where you have to buy the extras to unalpha the new feature
[12:38] Eata Kitty: No it would be better to physically change the mesh and no alpha, no resizing, no extra prims
[12:39] xstorm Radek: after all its not like philip is watching
[12:39] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: you can narrow my question down to a rapid statement if you wish (or PM me)
[12:39] Kopilo Hallard: no joke
[12:39] Adeon Writer: Will 8-bit transperency on mesh be supported? I've known a choice is planned for prims to use either
[12:39] The Nerd: 1 bit you mean?
[12:39] Jerbens Jarman: Eata is asking if you can swap meshes, in other words
[12:39] Adeon Writer: Well, right now rigged meshes use 1-bit by default
[12:39] Nyx Linden: /me needs to keep moving on the agenda, we're running out of time
[12:39] Adeon Writer: Ok.
[12:39] Nyx Linden: next topic! "Will mesh import support normal maps ? Or any other normal storing system ? "
[12:39] Reed Steamroller: :
[12:39] Eata Kitty: I already heavily use this idea in products, I assign say ten sculpts to a certain kind of option and those ten can be used for many different options. Obviously you cant have two at once but it is very efficient
[12:40] Kopilo Hallard: cudda maps...
[12:40] Nyx Linden: no. not on initial release.
[12:40] Nyx Linden: normal maps require a materials system, which is a separate project from mesh
[12:40] lonetorus Habilis: eata, ah its you, bad bad bad!!
[12:40] Nyx Linden: and we can only do so many things at once :)
[12:40] TriJin Bade: how about reflection maps besides normals. with they need extra texture allocations or be part of the mesh structure?
[12:40] Sirius Cleghorn: perhaps someday?;)
[12:41] Abel Dreamscape: so would you say normals MIGHT come in the future?
[12:41] Sirius Cleghorn: reflection maps are still material maps
[12:41] Jerbens Jarman: I belive reflection maps count as materials
[12:41] Tensai Hilra: as a hacky option, how about letting us use custom bumpiness
[12:41] Reed Steamroller: trijin, that still goes in the "new material system" bin
[12:41] Kitsune Shan: i remember when reflections were available in olders version of sl via advanced menuj
[12:41] Nyx Linden: we'd like to get to normals at some point, but we haven't had a chance to do any work on a materials system, or planning on when such a project would happen (other than "sometime after mesh")
[12:41] lonetorus Habilis: and at LL anything worth doing is worth doing properly, thus we have to wait XD
[12:41] Jerbens Jarman: now, someone DID mention mesh having a new refletion system
[12:41] Abel Dreamscape: understandable
[12:42] Jerbens Jarman: or something like that
[12:42] Reed Steamroller: high shiney used to generate psudo reflections, but doesn't anymore :(
[12:42] lonetorus Habilis: we want pseudo refelctions back plz
[12:42] Nyx Linden: Jerbens - that sounds like inaccurate information, but I'd have to see the exact wording you saw to be able to say
[12:42] xstorm Radek: normals is what some one says when the system is getting cut backs and to high of cost to run
[12:42] xstorm Radek: ;-)
[12:43] TriJin Bade: :D
[12:43] Nyx Linden: moving on!
[12:43] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Question about viewer technology: what data is in a "Shape", other than form and size? Reason for question: The "Shape" exported by TPVs that adhere to the ToS/TPVP rules contain 4 UUIDs that appear to correspond to textures (one or two seem to be eyes, despite Eyes being a separate wearable, and another appears to be related to the Alpha wearable). What is actually in a "Shape", officially? "
[12:43] xstorm Radek: yes moving on and so must i please have a good day i must go
[12:43] Morgaine Dinova: (I figured you'd know the inswer in your sleep :P)
[12:43] The Nerd: visualparams
[12:43] xstorm Radek: bye
[12:43] Rex Cronon: tc
[12:43] Nyx Linden: all of the wearables are defined in avatar_lad.xml - there are both textures and visual params
[12:44] xstorm Radek: bye Nyx
[12:44] Nyx Linden: I can get you a list of what textures and visual params the official viewer sends if you'd like :)
[12:44] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu xstorm :-)
[12:44] Kopilo Hallard: bye storm
[12:44] Morgaine Dinova: Woot, thanks Nyx!
[12:44] Cummere Mayo: so why re there the extra textrues that seem to be overwritten by waearables nyx?
[12:44] Nyx Linden: what textures?
[12:45] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: is the Shape wearable in any way related to the Alpha wearable?
[12:45] The Nerd: http://pastebin.com/PBGm4RLE
[12:45] Nyx Linden: need more information on what you're referring to, to be able to say one way or another Cummere
[12:45] The Nerd: that's a "shape"
[12:46] The Nerd: including skin and clothing parameters
[12:46] Nyx Linden: Morgaine: the baked textures that the shape contributes to can be overridden by an alpha mask, but the wearable itself is separate.
[12:47] Nyx Linden: anyways, keeping it moving: "Bulk Reset/Compiling scripts doesn't show full feedback anymore: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18027 & https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17976 "
[12:47] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: any idea what could make my (human av) skin vanish when I equip a brand new Shape, after PREVIOUSLY wearing an Alpha on this kitty?
[12:47] Eata Kitty: Thats more of a viewer design issue isn't it?
[12:48] Kopilo Hallard: v2.0 it would seem
[12:48] Kopilo Hallard: but a hassle for content creators
[12:48] Nyx Linden: Morgaine: will help you debug after the meeting :)
[12:48] Morgaine Dinova: kk
[12:48] Nyx Linden: yeah, this topic falls squarely in the camp of "not my department" :P
[12:48] Reed Steamroller: /me doesn't have any problems w/ 2.0
[12:49] Kopilo Hallard: next?
[12:49] lonetorus Habilis: wh is the right department?
[12:49] lonetorus Habilis: who
[12:49] Morgaine Dinova: The Nerd: what you listed isn't a Shape, it's the combination of various wearables into a bake.
[12:49] Nyx Linden: valid concerns - I'd bring it up with snowglobe, they'd better know who to ask :)
[12:49] Nyx Linden: *snowstorm
[12:49] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Update on UI changes for content creators "
[12:50] Nyx Linden: /me has been focused on UI changes to support Mesh.....
[12:50] Nyx Linden: I'd like to get around to tweaking / re-doing our build tools to better support content creators at some point
[12:50] GeneJ Composer: (whispers, wud lub that)
[12:51] Kopilo Hallard: I would suggest taking a look at some of the TPV build tools
[12:51] Kopilo Hallard: >.>
[12:51] TriJin Bade: for some reason, if you have over 50k items in your inventory, content creation slows down badly with v2.
[12:51] Nyx Linden: but I can only do so many things at once - my multiprocessing capabilities are limited by my RAM limits :)
[12:51] Jerbens Jarman: I'm curious as to what you have in mind
[12:51] Abel Dreamscape: you shold work out more
[12:51] Abel Dreamscape: get that RAM stronger
[12:51] skidz Tweak: I have some ideas :)
[12:51] Ashasekayi Ra: :D
[12:51] Nyx Linden: If I were to get the opportunity to revamp the build tools, I think my first step would be talking to a bunch of content creators - you guys know first hand where the pain points are
[12:52] GeneJ Composer: whispers, Skidz smart.
[12:52] lonetorus Habilis: no nyx bear on topic?
[12:52] skidz Tweak: :)
[12:52] Nyx Linden: I can make some guesses, and run them by people, but suggestions always welcome :)
[12:52] GeneJ Composer: <<has memo on UI builder stuff.
[12:52] Nyx Linden: there have been some efforts to collect build tool improvements in JIRA, and those would be a good starting point as well
[12:52] TriJin Bade: i could give a huge list of improvements. hence the reason for using 1.23 for building
[12:52] Kopilo Hallard: bearbearbearbearbearbear
[12:52] The Nerd: yeah weird
[12:53] Ju Weissnicht: work :D
[12:53] The Nerd: no megaprims and UI whining
[12:53] Nyx Linden: either way, I'm caught up in Mesh for right now, for better or for worse
[12:53] GeneJ Composer: YEs!
[12:53] Nyx Linden: one project at a time :)
[12:53] Kopilo Hallard: imprudence now has the ability to copy position, rotation or size sets and paste them across different objects >..
[12:53] Nyx Linden: nifty :)
[12:54] Abel Dreamscape: that is a great function too
[12:54] Tensai Hilra: ,so does phoenix... very handy
[12:54] Kopilo Hallard: ;)
[12:54] Nyx Linden: keeping thing moving: "Fairwell to Aimee and the rest of the Brighton office... "
[12:54] Abel Dreamscape: note that Nyx
[12:54] Imaze Rhiano: temporal textures are super
[12:54] Reed Steamroller: bye aimee :(
[12:54] GeneJ Composer: aw http://www .
[12:54] Kopilo Hallard: also "rez as land group if avaliable"
[12:54] Nyx Linden: /me will miss Aimee's current last name
[12:54] Ju Weissnicht: yes, that one is great
[12:54] Gregory Wellman: thanks for all your work Amimee!
[12:54] TriJin Bade: /me wipes a tear
[12:54] Kopilo Hallard: :(
[12:54] Gregory Wellman: Aimee*
[12:54] Tensai Hilra: aww, :( bye
[12:54] Abel Dreamscape: where is aimee going?
[12:54] The Nerd: tofu and spike leaving too?
[12:55] Gregory Wellman: yep
[12:55] The Nerd: >:/
[12:55] Tensai Hilra: :(
[12:55] Reed Steamroller: yeah i heard tofu is getting the pink slip too
[12:55] Kopilo Hallard: bad move getting rid of them from the team really
[12:55] Imaze Rhiano: awww
[12:55] Nyx Linden: yes, tofu is being lost too :(
[12:55] Latif Khalifa: all UK lindens, their last day today
[12:55] Morgaine Dinova: :-((((
[12:55] Reed Steamroller: does this make YOU the linux client champion, nyx?
[12:55] The Nerd: with stiff upper lip
[12:55] GeneJ Composer: Y'all will be missed.
[12:55] Adeon Writer: Both me and my SL camera thanks you, Aimee
[12:55] lonetorus Habilis: latif, also ontyne?
[12:55] Nyx Linden: rar linux :P
[12:55] Tensai Hilra: :(
[12:55] Aveline Stein: =(
[12:56] Kopilo Hallard: xD
[12:56] Latif Khalifa: very sad day for LL and SL
[12:56] Tensai Hilra: alot of those Latif...
[12:56] TriJin Bade: on the bright side... the multiverse has no borders
[12:56] Aimee Linden: thanks everyone (sorry was afk for a minute or two there)
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: Thank you for all your hard work Aimee
[12:57] lonetorus Habilis: how about ontyne support ppl?
[12:57] Rex Cronon: good luck to u
[12:57] Morgaine Dinova: I think we need a leaving party for Aimee and Tofu, with music! I know we're supposedly useless at organizing a pissup in a brewery, but we could try. :P
[12:57] Latif Khalifa: Aimee, the best of luck to you, and the rest of the UK linded team
[12:57] GeneJ Composer: We just saying TY and will miss you
[12:57] lonetorus Habilis: aimee, that emeans i suppose that you could finish the vnc support in a tpv? ;)
[12:58] Jerbens Jarman: haha, I JUST realized you were right next to me
[12:58] Morgaine Dinova: Awwww, lone, you have heart, cracking the whip already ;-)
[12:58] Kopilo Hallard: /me chuckles
[12:58] Morgaine Dinova: no heart :-)
[12:58] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Information on size affecting prim count? What kind of scale is it likely to increase count? (Possibly Prim Count based ONLY on model vertex count) "
[12:58] Aimee Linden: heh, lone: I believe Robiin Cornelius has been working on that and has got much further with it than I did
[12:59] Tensai Hilra: hehe, vnc works on a prim with HTML/java etc...
[12:59] Tensai Hilra: /me uses logmein on a prim mostly
[12:59] Reed Steamroller: nyx, i thought we already talked about that?
[12:59] Kopilo Hallard: /me hasn't seen vnc work on a prim with java yet
[12:59] Nyx Linden: I told people to put it on the agenda as it wasn't an official topic :P
[12:59] Nyx Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh_Streaming_Cost
[13:00] Nyx Linden: is the current proposal
[13:00] Kopilo Hallard: ^.^
[13:00] Reed Steamroller: ooo
[13:00] lonetorus Habilis: aimee, well, didnt want to crack any whip, i can understand if you dont feel like doing that much for sl for a while
[13:00] Nyx Linden: COST_SCALER is as of yet undetermined
[13:00] Nyx Linden: /me <3 having an open development process :D
[13:00] Kopilo Hallard: ^.^
[13:00] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Nyx, good to read
[13:00] Aimee Linden: I'll probably take a break for a while (I was half way through decorating the house when I got the call from the Lab and haven't finished it since)
[13:01] Nyx Linden: we did cover a lot of this before, I think the wiki page should probably give the relevant details
[13:01] The Nerd: lol
[13:01] Morgaine Dinova: Awww
[13:01] Aimee Linden: but I suspect the other Aimee will be back in action before too long
[13:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
[13:01] Nyx Linden: any other questions on this topic before moving on?
[13:01] lonetorus Habilis: aimee, addicted? ;)
[13:01] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, open development process is worth nothing if you ignore all the feedback and implement what will be detremental to the platform ayway ;)
[13:01] Tensai Hilra: I think the topic needs hands on, so no, not till beta
[13:01] Cummere Mayo: lol
[13:01] Aimee Linden: heh, I'm just OCD about broken stuff
[13:01] Cummere Mayo: will look forward to it aimee
[13:01] lonetorus Habilis: nyx, next, we already flogged that horse to death
[13:01] Eata Kitty: Any chance these LOD distances will have a viewer option, like how you can change LOD range on sculpt?
[13:01] Cummere Mayo: :)
[13:01] Nyx Linden: Latif: that's why I'm pushing for us going open beta so we can get a lot of feedback
[13:02] Aimee Linden: can't leave things unfinished (well, except maybe decorating)
[13:02] lonetorus Habilis: but thats iffy rl decorating
[13:02] Nyx Linden: we can't make everyone happy, but we can weigh the feedback against our needs and make a more informed decision :)
[13:02] GeneJ Composer: :)
[13:02] lonetorus Habilis: o/ for informed decissions
[13:02] Nyx Linden: anyways....enough on that for now
[13:02] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Will Rigged mesh attachments support linked objects? "
[13:02] Oken Hax: It would be nice to have a feature to force a LOD on a local viewer to check if everything is alright ( especially for auto generated LODs )
[13:02] TriJin Bade: as long as you log the figures, you'll find a median
[13:03] Morgaine Dinova: Aimee: I just call unfinished decorating "original finish" and move on :P
[13:03] Jerbens Jarman: That one is mine :)
[13:03] Latif Khalifa: trust me, resize object changing prim counts is *bad*
[13:03] Kopilo Hallard: Eata had a question...
[13:03] Nyx Linden: Eata - I think its based on draw distance now
[13:03] Reed Steamroller: lol yes everyone does seem to hate it latif
[13:03] Nyx Linden: I can look into it
[13:04] Eata Kitty: also doing LOD from the center of the object sounds like a big problem? if you had a building, the center could easily be 10M away so standing right next to the wall would have you on mid lod
[13:04] Ashasekayi Ra: I actually made a jira on a bug with linked prims/rigged mesh.
[13:04] Latif Khalifa: Reed, everyone except Falcon
[13:04] Reed Steamroller: Nyx, fix Falcon
[13:04] Jerbens Jarman: what sort of issues does linking prims on rigged meshes have?
[13:04] skidz Tweak: size is taken into factor
[13:04] lonetorus Habilis: falcon needs a leash (or whatever its called when its a bird)
[13:04] Ashasekayi Ra: Well, the position of the linked prim moves.
[13:04] Eata Kitty: Oh it is
[13:04] Eata Kitty: Sorry
[13:04] Eata Kitty: /me slaps forehead
[13:04] Ashasekayi Ra: But, you can detach it, move it back...then it stays.
[13:04] Eata Kitty: NM :P
[13:05] Morgaine Dinova: Relocate Falcon to the UK branch, quick!
[13:05] Rex Cronon: when u resize a mesh prim count increases. right? but does its weight also increases?
[13:05] Nyx Linden: hrm, linking normal prims to a rigged attachment...
[13:05] Jerbens Jarman: can you movied a linked object while it's attached, save for the mesh?
[13:05] Nyx Linden: I don't know!
[13:05] Adeon Writer: Has anyone tried it?
[13:05] Marcthur Goosson: e.g. can my mesh jacket have sculpted pockets?
[13:05] Reed Steamroller: i'll try that out next time i get a chance
[13:05] Nyx Linden: It will have to be investigated :)
[13:05] Reed Steamroller: i foresee a crash though
[13:05] lonetorus Habilis: morg, or get him started on the whole, "real gravity depending on mass + associated scripting language for controlling havok"
[13:05] TriJin Bade: if a rigged model avatar sits on a normal prim, would it still be one prim cost or would the sat on object be increased by your model too? just a thought.
[13:05] Ashasekayi Ra: Well, you can move it after it's attached.
[13:06] Ashasekayi Ra: I did Adeon
[13:06] Jerbens Jarman: okay,
[13:06] Morgaine Dinova: lone: uh oh, not sure I want to go there
[13:06] Eata Kitty: I dont see why moving linked in parts would be a problem, its the same as moving any other link
[13:06] Ashasekayi Ra: I meant after it is detached.
[13:06] Latif Khalifa: I'm unable to test mesh much since the latest build always complains about too many vertices for lower lods
[13:06] Ashasekayi Ra: The bug is in a jira..so hopefully...
[13:06] Nyx Linden: Latif: we're working on it :)
[13:07] lonetorus Habilis: morg, should keep him busy for a while, so the lest of ll can get some features in without falcon interference ;)
[13:07] Reed Steamroller: the skeleton wouldn't have any influence on another attatched object if i've thought this out right
[13:07] Jerbens Jarman: it might be just better to make them separate objects, for the sake of keeping the parts in place
[13:07] Morgaine Dinova: lone: lol, cruel :P
[13:07] Kopilo Hallard: latif: try a 3 verticies mesh? :p
[13:07] Reed Steamroller: coz the rigging associates the skeleton with specific verts of a rigged object
[13:07] Reed Steamroller: kopilo, you mean a triangle?
[13:07] Kopilo Hallard: hehe
[13:07] Sirius Cleghorn: 3 vertices? lol
[13:07] Nyx Linden: hey guys, we're over time and have 3 topics left, mind if I speed things up a bit?
[13:08] Reed Steamroller: go for it
[13:08] Adeon Writer: Plaese do
[13:08] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Purpose of submesh? Can they be treated as separate links, EG rotate, position etc different to the root? "
[13:08] lonetorus Habilis: go ahead, please
[13:08] Jerbens Jarman: go ahead
[13:08] Morgaine Dinova: /me revs Nyx up a notch
[13:08] Abel Dreamscape: please do
[13:08] Kitsune Shan: that would be nice
[13:08] Jerbens Jarman: what IS the submesh, exactly?
[13:08] Nyx Linden: so you can import multiple discrete objects, or an object with discrete parts (faces).
[13:08] lonetorus Habilis: morg, "push the turbo button" ;)
[13:08] Jerbens Jarman: this is the first I've heard of it
[13:08] Nyx Linden: if its one actual object with multiple faces, you can texture and set face properties of each part independently
[13:08] Cummere Mayo: /me sets nyx's cpu to the overclocked settings
[13:08] Morgaine Dinova: lone: it's stuck!
[13:08] Kopilo Hallard: /me slips a little bit of nitro into nyx's oil
[13:09] Nyx Linden: if they're separate actual objects, then they can be treated as...separate objects
[13:09] Reed Steamroller: think of it sorta like the different, sperate faces of a prim cube... they all get their own textures
[13:09] skidz Tweak: nice!
[13:09] lonetorus Habilis: reed, thats material id you are referring to
[13:09] Reed Steamroller: yeah
[13:09] TriJin Bade: i think its important to have sub-meshes so they can have seperate material channels
[13:09] Reed Steamroller: that
[13:09] lonetorus Habilis: material id == "sides" and can be addressed via lsl
[13:09] Nyx Linden: exactly
[13:09] Reed Steamroller: yeah, almost like UV tiles
[13:09] Kitsune Shan: nice
[13:09] Eata Kitty: Is it just for face stuff or can you do position/rotation too
[13:09] lonetorus Habilis: sub-mesh is a mesh in a scene
[13:10] lonetorus Habilis: no?
[13:10] Nyx Linden: lone: I wasn't certain which was being referred to in the question :)
[13:10] lonetorus Habilis: ah
[13:10] Morgaine Dinova: Is "submeshes" effectively hierarchical objects for meshes, independent components?
[13:10] Reed Steamroller: well you could have seperate meshes in a scene, each with their own sub-meshes
[13:10] The Nerd: qarl would say, submesh is for catching the small fish
[13:10] Latif Khalifa: Eeata, yes you can manipulate textures on "faces" the same way you can with regular prims
[13:10] Nyx Linden: you can have independent objects in a scene, as individual components, or independent faces on a single object
[13:10] Latif Khalifa: both with viewer directly and lsl
[13:11] Kitsune Shan: how submeshes are determined by SL? exporting they with diferent material IDs? im not too familiar with collada
[13:11] Nyx Linden: not doing heirarchical linking before you get too excited morgaine :)
[13:11] Kopilo Hallard: composit? :D
[13:11] lonetorus Habilis: material id (sides) is assigned in your 3d programs material id, and acts per polygon
[13:11] Reed Steamroller: with maya, you just apply different materials to different areas, these individual areas are designated submeshes
[13:11] lonetorus Habilis: material editor even
[13:12] TriJin Bade: if there's no hieractchical linking, then how are model avatar meshes going to sit in model fiz vehicles
[13:12] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: yeah I know, but wondered it the "sub" was separate enough to be regarded as actual independent components ... at least for meshes :-)
[13:12] Reed Steamroller: i'm probably like... the only maya user here tho :
[13:12] Reed Steamroller: don't know how w/ blender
[13:12] Reed Steamroller: i imagine its an analogous process tho
[13:12] Nyx Linden: you can have independent components in a scene, or you can have parts of a mesh have different material properties
[13:13] lonetorus Habilis: hmm, perhaps we should clear up the difference between material id (sides) and sub mesh (seperate not welded mesh inside a mesh)
[13:13] Ashasekayi Ra: In Blender, you do it with material ids.
[13:13] TriJin Bade: i personally think there should be some basic vertices edit tool made in the viewer
[13:13] Nyx Linden: need to get back to work, so moving on...
[13:13] Nyx Linden: next topic: "Any planned scale limit? large mesh is excellent for terrain, buildings, most sim building use. Mega prims are already used in this function "
[13:13] Gregory Wellman: /me uses Maya too, I know Blender can do it too
[13:13] lonetorus Habilis: trijin, there will be inworld resident madde tools that can export colalda
[13:13] Nyx Linden: Trijin - I'll save that rant for another week :D
[13:13] lonetorus Habilis: like sloft etc
[13:13] TriJin Bade: :)
[13:13] Kopilo Hallard: megaprim meshes seem to be doing pretty good from what vex has been showing
[13:14] Rex Cronon: when lonetorus?
[13:14] Jerbens Jarman: speaking of scale limit, when bone offset is eventually added, will that have limits, too?
[13:14] Kitsune Shan: i saw the limit is 64 x 64?
[13:14] Adeon Writer: I heard the limit was 64^3 as well
[13:14] Nyx Linden: working numbers have guessed 64 m
[13:14] Nyx Linden: there will be limits, not sure what they will be yet
[13:14] lonetorus Habilis: thebox already has obj export working, and is waiting for open beta so he can start doing collada
[13:14] Latif Khalifa: curretly on beta there is no limit when you import a mesh, but they snap back to 10x10x10 if you try to scale them in world
[13:14] Nyx Linden: Latif: we're working on that bug as well :)
[13:14] Cummere Mayo: /me thinks nyx might want to either start hsoitng a seocnd office hour or jsut admit the cute robot needs two hour office hour
[13:14] Reed Steamroller: just like megas
[13:15] Rex Cronon: lonetorus, he has that for sculpties only, if i am not mistaken. and he is not the only one
[13:15] Cummere Mayo: /me also thins maybe its time to move to one of the big ampheators
[13:15] Kopilo Hallard: nooos it's not a bug
[13:15] Kopilo Hallard: it's a feature
[13:15] lonetorus Habilis: nyx, will there be seperate office hours for open beta?
[13:15] Ashasekayi Ra: Will, the 64 limit come into play onece open beta begins?
[13:15] Ashasekayi Ra: *once
[13:15] Nyx Linden: lone: not sure yet
[13:15] Kitsune Shan: 64 limit for normal prims also?
[13:15] Nyx Linden: 64 m limit will come into play when we implement it :)
[13:15] Ashasekayi Ra: /me chuckles.
[13:15] Ashasekayi Ra: Fair enough
[13:15] lonetorus Habilis: nyx, at least it would be a good idea to have a mesh related oh on aditi
[13:15] lonetorus Habilis: hard to show examples here
[13:15] Jerbens Jarman: that will be exciting!
[13:16] Nyx Linden: important note: beta is taking place on the beta grid. We *will* break your content there.
[13:16] Eata Kitty: mesh show and tell
[13:16] Kopilo Hallard: lol
[13:16] Jerbens Jarman: break content?
[13:16] Reed Steamroller: there already are mesh oh on beta grid.... why would that stop?
[13:16] Ashasekayi Ra: Consider it wiped
[13:16] TriJin Bade: /me remembers to bring the superglue
[13:16] Nyx Linden: we need to iterate through various limits, prim counts, etc to get it right before we move it to the main grid
[13:16] Morgaine Dinova: Nyx: is there a Project Manager for the Open Beta itself?
[13:16] lonetorus Habilis: in soviet aditi content break sim
[13:16] Jerbens Jarman: oh, you mean everything that's on there now is gone?
[13:16] Jerbens Jarman: or will be
[13:16] Cummere Mayo: i dont think thats what he means jerbens
[13:16] Nyx Linden: not yet, but it will be soon, at least on the mesh regions
[13:17] Nyx Linden: we're changing the serialiazation format for meshes, so they'll have to be re-uploaded
[13:17] Cummere Mayo: i think he means that the meshes will likely get messed up as they try differant restirction formulas etc
[13:17] Nyx Linden: Cummere - I mean both
[13:17] Jerbens Jarman: or do you mean that there's good chance meshes we upload will break due to changes as you work?
[13:17] Qie Niangao: confused: *non* mesh content may break, too?
[13:17] Cummere Mayo: your wiping non mesh too ?
[13:17] Nyx Linden: Jerbens: yes.
[13:17] Kopilo Hallard: /me waves and passes out into bed
[13:17] Nyx Linden: no, just talking about the mesh sims
[13:18] Jerbens Jarman: gotta do what you gotta do!
[13:18] Latif Khalifa: damn, i need to rewrite my mesh decoder :P
[13:18] Cummere Mayo: thats what i was saying
[13:18] Qie Niangao: kk, thanks.
[13:18] Cummere Mayo: lol
[13:18] Rex Cronon: tc
[13:18] Jerbens Jarman: thanks for the heads on on that
[13:18] Jerbens Jarman: heads up*
[13:18] Nyx Linden: last topic: "# Shadows: would be great to be able to designate which objects cast and receive shadows, as well as designate the color of shadows cast. Already put this on the PJIRA but I'd like to hear your thoughts. "
[13:18] Cummere Mayo: /me thinks nyx and i had a cross interpretation there
[13:18] Reed Steamroller: ooooooo MY question
[13:18] Reed Steamroller: !
[13:18] Nyx Linden: would be nifty to add such a flag
[13:18] Marcthur Goosson: :-)
[13:18] TriJin Bade: i second that
[13:18] Nyx Linden: not sure when / how we would do such a thing :)
[13:18] Reed Steamroller: can you get runitai to do that?
[13:19] Qie Niangao: lol... there's actually an old deprecated prim property for that.
[13:19] Adeon Writer: That would be highly desireable
[13:19] Cummere Mayo: hwo would we get shadows to recognize when to morph / break?
[13:19] Gregory Wellman: I am all for it
[13:19] TriJin Bade: i'm guessing that the flag be on the materials channel
[13:19] Qie Niangao: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetLinkPrimitiveParams #PRIM_CAST_SHADOWS
[13:19] Cummere Mayo: /me is jsut curious... cause it sounds as hard to impliment as the weather sytem was
[13:20] Adeon Writer: We would need at least two, one for casting and one for receiving
[13:20] Jerbens Jarman: speaking of which, I'm still wondering when people can make sim-based windlight settings...
[13:20] Jerbens Jarman: but that's off topic
[13:20] Reed Steamroller: and a color slider for shadows
[13:20] Abel Dreamscape: ask that next week jerbens, i wouldlike to know too
[13:20] Morgaine Dinova: Jerbens: we already can in Opensim + Imprudence
[13:21] Jerbens Jarman: what's next week?
[13:21] Kitsune Shan: sim baed windlight settings its alrady in the snowstorm project
[13:21] Nyx Linden: could someone file a JIRA for this and put specifics on how you would like it to work?
[13:21] Reed Steamroller: Nyx
[13:21] Reed Steamroller: i already did
[13:21] Reed Steamroller: hold on
[13:21] Reed Steamroller: oh crap
[13:21] Nyx Linden: ok Reed :)
[13:21] Kitsune Shan: lol
[13:22] Reed Steamroller: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-252
[13:22] TriJin Bade: i would be very interested in setting WL for regions... as I run immersion RPs... it adds greatly to give the sense of being there.
[13:22] Ashasekayi Ra: Thanks Reed
[13:22] Rex Cronon: u read minds:)
[13:22] Nyx Linden: had a topic added about client-side scripting: my answer there is not my project :)
[13:22] Adeon Writer: @Reed it appears that one isn't public
[13:22] Marcthur Goosson: I am still curious how many rigged polys I can attach without loosing basic av functionailty
[13:22] lonetorus Habilis: not yet
[13:22] Eata Kitty: WL is something for to ask for in snowstorm
[13:23] Reed Steamroller: yeah its the secret squirrel jira
[13:23] lonetorus Habilis: but its the correct queue
[13:23] lonetorus Habilis: (it does not say that much more than reed has said here)
[13:23] Ashasekayi Ra: snorts
[13:23] skidz Tweak: Is someone still working on c# scripting?
[13:23] Nyx Linden: could we get a public issue so we can gather votes?
[13:23] Rex Cronon: u need nuts to enter?
[13:23] Reed Steamroller: yeah sure
[13:23] Adeon Writer: Yes I'd really like to add my vote
[13:23] Ju Weissnicht: same here
[13:24] Reed Steamroller: let me figure out how to do that real quick :D
[13:24] TriJin Bade: and i
[13:24] Nyx Linden: thanks reed - I'll add the JIRA to the agenda notes archive and let AWGroupies know when its up
[13:24] Nyx Linden: those of you who want the feature, keep an eye out for the jira and vote for it please, as well as help specify the exact functionality
[13:24] Qie Niangao: myabe just add to vwr-1601
[13:24] Jerbens Jarman: Nyx: that IS somethign I've been meaning to ask you: how do we know who to talk to for certain features/bugs? I was lucky to find you in the mesh dev group, but if I have questions/issues with, say, the "browser-on-a-prim", who would I talk to?
[13:24] Jerbens Jarman: other features, I mean
[13:25] Jonathan Yap: Jerbens, browser on a prim (MoaP) is handled by Samuel, who no longer has an OH
[13:25] Nyx Linden: you can ask who to talk to (I did get your IM earlier) - lindens are usually pretty responsive on "who should I ask about feature X"
[13:25] Reed Steamroller: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23238
[13:25] Reed Steamroller: VOTE
[13:25] lonetorus Habilis: jerbens, there used to be a list of linden roles, but alas its far outdated, what you have jusst done, would be the current way of figuring out
[13:25] Nyx Linden: yes, samuel and his team are best to ask about MOAP, I don't know if any of them hold public OH
[13:26] Tood Warren: hello
[13:26] Qie Niangao: Reed, link it to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1601, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5191, and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-20197
[13:26] Nyx Linden: or even better.....ask on the opensource-dev list and I can make sure the right lindens see the request :D
[13:26] Gregory Wellman: voted for it Reed. :-)
[13:26] TriJin Bade: /me stamps his vote on it.
[13:26] Nyx Linden: mailing lists FTW
[13:26] Reed Steamroller: opensource-dev list?
[13:27] Reed Steamroller: where and how
[13:27] lonetorus Habilis: yeh, i cant belive we used the blog for closed beta discussions, would have been better with the mail list XD
[13:27] Jerbens Jarman: I second that question
[13:27] lonetorus Habilis: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensource-dev
[13:27] Nyx Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensource-dev
[13:28] lonetorus Habilis: ha
[13:28] Nyx Linden: ok, I'm at the hour and a half mark. Definitely need to get back to work.
[13:28] Nyx Linden: Thanks for coming out everyone!
[13:28] Nyx Linden: have a great week and see you next week
[13:28] lonetorus Habilis: ok, thanks for today, and have a good one
[13:28] Qie Niangao: Thanks Nyx!
[13:28] Ashasekayi Ra: Thanks Nyx. Have a good one.
[13:29] Gregory Wellman: thanks Nyx
[13:29] Tensai Hilra: ̗̀:̩̍)̵̩̩̍ Thank you!
[13:29] TriJin Bade: thank you for holding the rant, Nyx. it's appreciated.
[13:29] Rex Cronon: tc nyx and good luck
[13:29] Nyx Linden: look forward to working with everyone during the open beta period (starts October 13!)

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