User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-08-27

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Jack Linden: hello everyone!

BigMike Bukowski: Figured since i actually own my own sim now I can actually come to these now :)

Motor Loon: Hello Jack

Melody Regent nods "Hello Jack

Daniel Voyager: hiya Jack :)

Motor Loon: and welcome to your office hours ;-)

Greywolf Moonlight: hi, Jack

Jack Linden: thanks Motor! :)

MissMissy Moonbeam: hello, Jack

Jack Linden: right, so i guess you've all been clicking about in the new website?

Equinox Pinion: jack on your website you write homesteads are 95 USD per month, did you finally made the decision they will stay at 95 USD?

Equinox Pinion: yep i did *g*

Jack Linden: Equinox, i think that was an error and being fixed

Uni Ninetails: Jack xstreet now give me a headache when i read it :( other than that not bad...

Equinox Pinion: And when will you announce they stay 95USD as you know as well as I do that you will, you screw residents again at the moment who are paying much more to get one grandfathered homestead on the market now

Jack Linden: Ah yes, the colours on xstreet.. had a few people mention that to me

Uni Ninetails: nod nods

Jack Linden: Equinox, the plan is unchanged as per the announcements

Equinox Pinion: just for how long...will remind you when you announce it

Equinox Pinion: Why is the price for a themed private region if you buy a full region 200 USD more and if you buy a homestead only 75 USD more. You get the same content with it, can you explain the logic in the pricing if there is any

Kyrion Yalin: greetings

xstorm Radek: hi hi Ardt :-)

xstorm Radek: hi Uni

Ardy Lay: Hi

Uni Ninetails: Hey Xstorm

xstorm Radek: i need to make new eyes

xstorm Radek: OMG!! my mic is open lol

Jack Linden: The themed private regions are new, and we'll be watchng how that goes and may review the priciing if we need to. Especially when we start to allow residents to sell complete developed region designs

xstorm Radek: hi Jack

Uni Ninetails: woah whut?

Ciaran Laval: If they don't fix Xstreet's colour scheme soon I'll need xstorm to make me some new eyes

Equinox Pinion: well..you should state on the website what rights you get with it..you even dont know how many prims they use

Jack Linden: :) Ciaran

xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

xstorm Radek: i will make them

Alliez Mysterio: Hi Jack, Received email that there was adult content on a parcel or in description. Have no idea which sim, did ticket asking to have this clarified. Ticket was closed, telling me letter was auto and just to check out the sim. I cant no idea which sim it is. So I reopened ticket of course, I really to know which sim/sims are being talked about

Ciaran Laval: Alliez do you have the latest viewer?

Alliez Mysterio: yes

Jack Linden: Yep Equinox, it's the first time we've offered them and I expect you'll see those pages evolve a lot as we add info and so on

xstorm Radek: xstreet burnt out my eyes

Melody Regent: aww come on Alleiz, you only have a few sims, should be easy

Melody Regent: :)

Uni Ninetails: Jack, these developed sims, any demos on the grid to look at?

Alliez Mysterio: lol

Ciaran Laval: Tick the adult checkbox only and search for your land group or sim name, only those with adult keywords will show up

Equinox Pinion: you can tp to them uni

Marianne McCann: I assume these are moonbase, baronial castle, etc?

Jack Linden: Alliez, yes.. I became aware of that yesterday.. we're getting the full info so that the concierge agents can tell you exactly where it is

Techwolf Lupindo: I just hit the new website and logged in. What is it with HUGE waste of space on either side of screen? The web site is done in a very narrow colume. HTML is NOT page layout.

Equinox Pinion: you also state you will soon have new themed mainland....do you really plant to put more mainland up?

Jack Linden: Uni.. fly east

Jack Linden: :)

Equinox Pinion: plant even

Wilma Philbin: Uni - they are all on regions in the neighbourhood here, if you open the map you'll find them

Jack Linden: They are just a few regions across from here

Uni Ninetails: ahh thanks! ill have a nosety later

Alliez Mysterio: tyvm

Jack Linden: Yes Marianne

Uni Ninetails: *er nosey

Jack Linden: the moonbase is great, very fun

Uni Ninetails face paws "i see them now doh.

Marianne McCann: You mentioned last week about possibly having more information about the short-term fixes with the Bay City (Hau Koda) hub. Any new news on that?

Jack Linden: Equinox, probably yes. We'll be talking more about that on the blogs very soon. We're going to be looking for feedback on some more zoned areas of Mainland

Equinox Pinion: but the mainlnd prices are totaly down...people have already now problems to get ride of it

Jack Linden: Marianne, sadly not. Everyone has been focussed on the website launch but hopefully that pressure will ease now and we'll be able to make some progress

xstorm Radek: Jack can the gray rock of Corsica look better ? the people that live in corfeld is sick of the gray rock that has poor textures there must be better textures by now ?

Qie Niangao: Might zone Jeogeot. It's not like anybody is using it.

Marianne McCann: Good good. I do hope so

Jack Linden: xstorm, i think we'd be open to improving that if the residents there seemed to all be in agreement with the change

Jack Linden: it would take us a while but it's possible to change it

Marianne McCann: If there *is* more themed or even zoned mainland, will that include the eventual expansion of Bay City (oh please oh please?)

Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, is there a good answer as to way the site look horriable on wide screen monitors?

Motor Loon: I like the new website... looks very professional and you managed to get more info onto each screen which saves time (and we need more time oh yes).

xstorm Radek: ok thank you

AV monitor: Meta L is NOT online

Marianne McCann: For me, the best part of the new site, by far, is searchable maps

Techwolf Lupindo: There is a huge block on white space on the right edge and left edge of the new website.

Equinox Pinion: not if you have to log in again on lmsot every website again motor :)

Jack Linden: I did once suggest to residents of the old Mainland that we could make them more green instead of the brown dirt.. and people were really unhappy, and wanted the old dirt to stay. So it can be tough to change things like that

xstorm Radek: and if the ones that did not was to no longer like corfeld and move out and our group owns more of the sim then can we get that taken care of faster ?

Jack Linden: Marianne, hehe maybe. I know the DPW folks would love to do more there

Khamon Fate: Boo Dirt!

Jack Linden: Techwolf, does it? I have two widescreens and it looks fine to me

Marianne McCann: I know the residents would love it too, Jack. Especially those of us who "live on the edge"

Khamon Fate: Yay Green!

Marianne McCann winks

Uni Ninetails looks at xstreet again, "why doesnt it log in automatically from the dashboard, and its poo in design compared to the main site. :P~

Khamon Fate: What residents Jack? Give me names. I'll make them an offer they can't refuse.

Khamon Fate: dirt lovers, hmphf

xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

Jack Linden: haha, i even went to their regions and showed them how lush they could be. Almost every one of them wanted it reset back to dirt

Marianne McCann: Leaving sculpty horse heads on the corners of their SexGen beds, Khamon?

Jack Linden: I was surprised too

Uni Ninetails: concrete prim hair and a long trip of a short pier?

Khamon Fate: It was a nice offer to make at the time

Motor Loon: works for me Uni.

Khamon Fate: I don't get this themed bit though. It seems like that would've been better timed a few years ago when it was first requested.

Marianne McCann: Heck, I'd love to see some nicer, more modern, group textures in my neck of th' woods

Khamon Fate: Will people pay for that now?

Uni Ninetails: what scares me about xstreet atm, its the first website in over 5 years that actually gives me a headache.

Jack Linden: Khamon, you mean the Themed Islands?

Techwolf Lupindo: I need a doctor, I just hit xstreet website....

Khamon Fate: yes

Khamon Fate: What prompted the lab to finally do that

Khamon Fate: The answer before had always just been "no."

Marianne McCann: Techwolf - you can search the marketplace for one

xstorm Radek: Jack our group is working on corfeld :-) and we love Corsica if we can get some theme based textures we can start working on corfeld now Jack

Uni Ninetails: tech seriously im looking for aspirin atm

Khamon Fate: I suppose I'm asking what changed?

Jack Linden: Yeah, I'd have loved to do it earlier. We do get island buyers who have said they would prefer to have one prebuilt.

Melody Regent: Jack, For many weeks now, the private estate owners ability to do estate bans has been masively hampered. To the point that once you are in the cross hairs of a determined griefer, you are helpless to them coming back over and over. Yes, we can file ARs and the Gteam and ban THAT avi and more are made and it keeps going on. Then to the top of that, lets add that the fact that the ONCE WORKING Return all objects from the Estate is no longer availble to sim owners, makes returning these items nearly impossible, when you have many sims and even 10 times more lots. Basically, this corpprate world you are trying to bring in, will be at the mercey of non working tools. What is being done to give the SIM OWNERS back the controls that have been stolen from us?

Jack Linden: I also expect it will open up new possibilities for residents to develop whole region designs to sell

Marianne McCann: Hey Doubledown!

Doubledown Tandino: hi gang

Malburns Writer: hi DD!

Khamon Fate: That'll be nice. Does that include letting residents list parcels on the auction block?

Khamon Fate: hmm, does it? hmmm

Equinox Pinion: the banning is still not working melody?

xstorm Radek: can we get textures for corsica some sort of theme based may be ?

Uni Ninetails: why not do like zindra and have a resource area with textures, simple buildings etc that are in theme with the sim in question?

Melody Regent: correct Equinox

Jack Linden: Melody, i think 'stolen' is a little strong, but I agree that our estate tools are not good enough. We've a number of projects that should help to improve that but I don't have a quick fix for that particular problem

Jack Linden: Khamon, resident auctions is definitely something we're planning on

Greywolf Moonlight: That should be one of your highest priorities, Jack

Equinox Pinion: than that is a real problem jack! and you should fix it ASP

Melody Regent: its not strong at all when you are going thru what we are going thru

Uni Ninetails: Not on a security or management aspect but i still want damn windlight control on the estate tabs :)

Khamon Fate: YAY! \o/ everybody dance1

xstorm Radek: Jack you must know what the theme is for Corsica so we can start working on our sim

MissMissy Moonbeam: i'd be happy to have the tools that once worked working again

Equinox Pinion: seriously jack...that is a huge problem for private estates

Melody Regent: What fixes are coming and when will you get them to us? Banning and retunring stuff is BASIC stuff, not extra stuff

Khamon Fate: Are the old estate banning tools going to be "fixed" or are new ones coming out to replace them?

Jack Linden: Melody, I absolutely know how frustrating that issue is, and we will of course fix it as soon as we can. And agreed, it's not extra stuff

Khamon Fate: I mean is it like a bug, or have the current tools been disabled to code hooks for new and better ones

Yann Dufaux: hi all! ㋡

Jack Linden: There are a long list of estate improvements and fixes we want to work on, and they are high priority for us

Bo Forcella nods to everybody and sits quetly

xstorm Radek: hi Yann

Alexxa Despres: hi Yann

Uni Ninetails: got a copy of the list Jack?

Melody Regent: ban and return is as basic as flying and tping. When I pay $300 a month for a sim, I kinda expect to get a WORKING product. Right now Jack, I do not have the product I am paying you $10,000usd a month for

Motor Loon: Not to mention the totally non-working "estatewide resident objectreturn" which could deal with our griefing issues in seconds without having to bring Lindens in to help clean up.

Equinox Pinion: can we have a list so we can vote on priority for them jack?

Marianne McCann: One thing I've seen issues with lately is troubles with "region resource" stuff. There's a plot or two in Bay City - Molesworth that are chalk full of sensors, tem rez weapon platforms, etc. Causing performance for the whole sim to fall (yay for 0.45 time dil)

Khamon Fate: We have to play the JIRA game to vote Equinox.

Greywolf Moonlight: Please stop adding all these new "foo-foo" features, and concentrate on fixing the high priority things that need to be fixed

xstorm Radek: i seen that at baycity too

Khamon Fate: But don't just vote, if you want to power play, go to the triages and argue your issues into the PJIRA

Wilma Philbin: About priorities - how about them bots, Jack?

Marianne McCann: Ya, XStorm, you probably know what I'm talkin about

xstorm Radek: baycity has a lot of lag

Uni Ninetails: that botnet i ard last week is back this week

MissMissy Moonbeam: use the time that would be spent on voting to actually get it fixed

Techwolf Lupindo: Someone tp me, i'me stuck at 10,10,10

Jack Linden: Equinox, a lot of them are in pJira already. I don't have a list of all estate issues to hand out.

Jack Linden: Yes, attending the triages is very useful

Equinox Pinion: ok will check it thnks

Techwolf Lupindo: Thank you. Now unstck.

xstorm Radek: plus a number of people are dropping junk prims all over build set land its a mess

xstorm Radek: baycity needs some one to go in and clean up a little or it may get out of hand

Doubledown Tandino: (i cant even pay attention or focus on an important event like this because im getting bombarded by unsolicited IMs, group messages, blue box popups, and everything else distracting my SL experience... any chance on fixing all of that)?

Melody Regent: Why not Jack, one of the things lacking is the communication. We really would like to know what you take seriously. If you are spending as much time fixing the lack of basic estate tools as you are deciding what pretty collors on the website, that is one of those things that gives us CONFIDENCE> Not including us, keeping us in the dark, no, those tear appart that confidence

Marianne McCann: XStorm - too true. Like the plot next to the theater in Rollers, a tower of prim junk an penis griefy things

Kyrion Yalin: Greywolf, programers do new feactures when they have not the habillity to fix an old one. Iknow it, i , a computer programmer :)

Ciaran Laval: Well to be fair, the people working on the website won't be the people who are fixing the estate tools

xstorm Radek: yes i have seen that and told the owner about the cabin and sex toys on the plot

Equinox Pinion: only if they are not managed well kyrion

Jack Linden: I'm sensing you're unhappy Melody. :) Believe me, the resources used on webdev are entirely separate from the resources needed to fix estate tools

Marianne McCann: Likely not even the people you;d want fixing estate tools, really

Melody Regent: I know that Ciaran, but what would go a LONG way is communication

Jack Linden: So we're not prioritising one over the other at all

Jack Linden: We have many large scale projects that are underway at any one time, and some of those are land related but not all.

Ciaran Laval: Oh I agree with you on the communication Melody

xstorm Radek: the next step for me to do is AR the owner and LL do to the mess

Equinox Pinion: you are just out of touch with estate owners jack

Equinox Pinion: and that is not good

Jack Linden: For some issues, the fix for them is a much deeper technical or architecture change and so that work has to happen before we then fix the feature itself

Greywolf Moonlight: the estate banning issues should be at the top of the critical list, when you ban a griefer, you shouldn't have to look at his smirking face 2 minutes later...

Motor Loon: agrees with Equinox

MissMissy Moonbeam: if the lack of the ability for Estate Managers to actually manage the estates is "high Priority", i can't imagine what is

MissMissy Moonbeam: isn't*

Khamon Fate: Do the bans/returns not work at all, ever, or just when griefers are using specific viewers?

Motor Loon: and it shouldnt take you 2 hours to get his mass spam objects our your sim

Khamon Fate: I mean is a broken feature, or a circumventing problem?

Techwolf Lupindo: Why can't as I, an estate manager, set a sim for public access?

Equinox Pinion: they worked before motor

Equinox Pinion: since an upgrade they are not anymore

Techwolf Lupindo: I can do everything else BUT that.

Doubledown Tandino: k, im outta here, unproductive for me not even able to follow the chat because of so many popups and unimportant distractions i cannot avoid. cya all at metanomics.

Marianne McCann: Have fun, DD

Melody Regent: Jack, talk to your Concierge team, let them tell you how unhappy I am that I cannot use my sims. Let them tell you how unhappy I am I am not getting the product I paid for. Let Charelene fill you in at the number of HOURS and HOURS I spend trying to find a work around for YOUR issues. THen look at my tickets, I am bending over backwards trying to find way so I can help myself, I would like to find way my staff DOES NOT have to bother you and I get slapped down when I try. Over and over I get slapped down like some annoying bug when these issues are not my fault and I am TRYING to not have to waste your time. YOUR people make MY people feel like we are worthless (a few of yours are jewels - the rest... pffftt)

Alliez Mysterio: Can you upload raw file as EM?

Alliez Mysterio: I think not

MissMissy Moonbeam: one of the debug features in Region/Estate is th e ability to Return all Objects in Every Region of the Estate. This is broken.

Khamon Fate: Noone but the owner can save and upload RAW files. That's always been the case.

Alliez Mysterio: popcorn time

Equinox Pinion: we asked along time ago to hve different levels of estate managers......who knows if it ever will come

Jack Linden: Yeah, EMs have never been able to upload RAWs. There are risks to allowing it but we could

Motor Loon: If you cant trust your EMs, who can you trust...

Jack Linden: RAW files themselves have had some work done on them, so the parcelling will soon be possible again properly with RAWs

Bo Forcella: It looks like something changed in the server code that exposed some vulnerabilities. Its typical, and it happens all the times to anybody that does coding in RL. These guys are smart, and technically savy, its something that should not be taken lightly. Thats the real thing, these guys know what they do.

Marianne McCann: It would also be nice to see one of the RAW layers used for tland textures, rather than the elevation method in place now

Equinox Pinion: agree bo.....but people normaly fix new bugs

Marianne McCann: land*

Uni Ninetails: Agreed Marianna

Marianne McCann: For *designating* land texturs, shoudl clarift

Uni Ninetails: -a +e

Marianne McCann: (Not even gonna try to fix that bad morning typing of mine) :-/

Ciaran Laval: parcelling with RAW files?

Bo Forcella: bug fixing is hard when you have clever guys in front of you. But it can be done, and needs to be done. But it needs resources (people) to do it theright way.

Dytska Vieria: New bugs should have the first priority, but instead they get a JIRA # and go into queue indefinitely.

Jack Linden: Agreed Marianne, ultimately the RAW file approach probably isn't going to work.. we'll probably be looking at other common terrain formats

Khamon Fate: Who wishes they'd scrape that quadrant ground texture code and let us actually texture the parcels?

xstorm Radek: Jack by the looks of things there are more and more small bugs and problems and the list is growing is the small bugs are not fix soon i can see a news company pulling out and pointing to all the little problems

Ciaran Laval: I'd love to be able to texture parcels Khamon

Marianne McCann: Excellent. I know I'd like for my beach area on the Livingtree estate to remain beach 100% of the time.

Khamon Fate: \0oXO/ 0XoX0/

Equinox Pinion: there is a tool you can get khamon...called land map...you can do it with it

Marianne McCann: Big time, Khamon

Jack Linden: Terrain painting is on our roadmap Khamon but it's not an easy piece of work. We want to let people paint roads rather than having to always use prims

Toxic Menges: Equinox, I have that it's excellent

Uni Ninetails: Jack there was a discussion with Nyx Linden about increases the terrian resolution to give a better look at feel to sims. My understanding being it works but is not implemented due to terrian tilling issues

Equinox Pinion: yes it is great toxic!

Khamon Fate: That's good to hear. Does the roadmap have a timeline attached to it?

Techwolf Lupindo: A lot of good looking sims use prim to cover up the bad looking texture terren.

Equinox Pinion: linden doesnt know what a timeline is :)

Uni Ninetails: i know i use Jvtek landmap to hide crappy texture blends

Marianne McCann: 's true, Techwolf. Had to fight with those for some time

Melody Regent: Jack, what kind of time frame or goal (Do you guys use deadlines?) do you, as a company, have in place, for fixing some of these considerable Estate bugs. Or do you ya'll not work with timelimes and goals

Motor Loon: We know you dont disclose your internal methods of actually banning people from SL (mac, ip, isp etc. bans) but Jack, can it really be correct that we have had the same ONE guy attack our estates witch atleast 18 confirmed alt-avatars over the last 3 weeks, and with AR's filed on each of them along the way. And yet, he still comes back with new alt's to continue his griefing. Are G-team doing anything at all?? (again lack of communication, we know nothing of what they do or not do.. and are not even able to contact them besides from filing another AR which never gets replied)

Khamon Fate: Y'all need to seriously just stop working on the terrain tiling as it is and focus on replacing that with the roadmapped ground painting feature.

Jack Linden: Uni, i'm not sure what Nyx means there but as far as the RAW files are concerned - when we launch the fixes then it will allow 16bit rather than 8bit RAWs I believe.. which will make for some finer detail

Marianne McCann: Nice

Khamon Fate: land map, what is that? I need that.

AV monitor: hotbutt is NOT online

Uni Ninetails: the mesh detail of terrian gets increased the texture tiling goes belly up

xstorm Radek: thats true the people in Corfeld has started using mega prims to cover the ground if it keeps up much of Corsica will be cover by mega prims to cover how bad the ground looks

Equinox Pinion: check xstreet khamon

Uni Ninetails: aye its on xstreet khamon if you can survive the headache inducing format

Equinox Pinion: lol

Jack Linden: Melody, I don't have a timeline for those specific fixes to hand, I'd need to check in with the server team on their current release schedules

Uni Ninetails: Well server 1.30 is on the test grid but the release notes are pathetic

Driftwood Miles: Jack, we keep hearing that there are CHANGES coming in search and frankly it makes me as nervous as sheep in Wales. Are we to expect major changes in the way it operates in terms of rankings or are we talking cosmetic changes. Also SL.com seems to favour the few in a huge way , is this inequality the way of the future Like MOTD?

xstorm Radek: Uni i think Jack needs more people in the office with him to get things going

Equinox Pinion: hmmm...why are sheeps in wales nervous lol

Uni Ninetails: Xstorm: across the board lack of staff at LL

Driftwood Miles: LOL Equinox

Jack Linden: Driftwood, ultimately I expect Search to change a lot in the sense that it will get more accurate and relevant and the search algorithms will be much more developed than they are now

Ciaran Laval: Driftwood compare search rankings on the website to those inworld using search all, they are different so something is changing

Alexxa Despres: Cause Drift was visitting ;-P

xstorm Radek: think so Uni]

Equinox Pinion: LOL!!

Ciaran Laval: They've just changed the website search

Alexxa Despres: :-)) ;-P

Melody Regent: Jack, how do you feel you all do with communicating with the residents and do you see that the residents may not feel there is any communication with us? What would you like the public perception to be that LL communicates with us and is that a reasonable expectation, to have some sort of communication.

Driftwood Miles: So basically one night a company who has a lot of their custom coming via search could find in a 24 hour period they are dumped somewhere way down the listings and facing real problems?

Ciaran Laval: Yup Driftwood, I did ask about it on the blog about the new search on the wesbite but i've had no answer

Jack Linden: Melody, I doubt we will ever communicate as mcuh as we or you would like, as it is we have a lot of outbound communication for a company as comparatively small as we are. However Second Life is very complex as a product and so we have a very wide range of issues to talk about

Marianne McCann: Jack, I was looking at the land details on the site and saw that there is no set up fee for openspaces. Is this correct? The listing also said 0 for the max prims, so I assume someone misstepped

Driftwood Miles: we have asked so many times Ciaran and always get the "search is deliberately opaque to stop gaming"

Wilma Philbin: That sure has worked great soo far ㋡

Techwolf Lupindo: They just need to pay google to help strighten out there searches.

Khamon Fate: THX

Marianne McCann: ( https://land.secondlife.com/en-US/themed-private-islands.php%3flang=en - then click "continue" on any of the options)

Equinox Pinion: a company that isnot listening to their customers fails sooner or later jack

Jack Linden: I would hope that residents understand how cutting edge this is, and that our best intentions are always to serve the community as well as being a successful business. I'd like us to be talking more than we are, and we have been slowly increasing that engagement over time

Motor Loon: I fear you might have missed my question, so I'll dare to repost it. We know you dont disclose your internal methods of actually banning people from SL (mac, ip, isp etc. bans) but Jack, can it really be correct that we have had the same ONE guy attack our estates witch atleast 18 confirmed alt-avatars over the last 3 weeks, and with AR's filed on each of them along the way. And yet, he still comes back with new alt's to continue his griefing. Are G-team doing anything at all?? (again lack of communication, we know nothing of what they do or not do.. and are not even able to contact them besides from filing another AR which never gets replied)

Jack Linden: We're more driven by resident feedback now than I think we ever have been

Driftwood Miles: when vcan we expect the search listings to be churned up Jack?

Jack Linden: I'm not sure we'll be churning them hehe, I think it'll be a number of changes over a long time. The search team will be talking more about it i'm sure

Timo Daehlie accepted your inventory offer.

Wilma Philbin: I think most of us understand the good intentions. Doesn't stop us from getting frustrated about it when it doesn't work. There aren't even any office hours for the Lindens responsible for Search.

xstorm Radek: ok Jack what about setting up some better working Mainland Community centers that can have mailland owners feel they have better support ?

Jack Linden: xstorm, how would you see that working.. what would you want to see?

Equinox Pinion: why is mainland support lacking too *g*

Ciaran Laval: Blondin does some good community work with some mainland estates, maybe that could be extended? Not for Blondin, he has enough on his plate

Driftwood Miles: Thanks Jack....I don't mind slow and steady it's when you guys throw a Fizzbomb into the mix that it usually ends up with casualties and a cynical userbase!

xstorm Radek: lets look at bay city with whats going on there and corsica too

Marianne McCann: Yes, I would love to see something akin to the "concierge" focused on mainland issues. Located there, focused on the issues that affect is exclusively

Jack Linden: Motor, the alt griefing issue is huge for us. It uses a lot of our resource too, so we're very eager to resolve that. We've had a lot of feedback on exactly that problem so it's very high on our list

xstorm Radek: there is no one reporting plus no community center to talk to people about there sims

Equinox Pinion: what kind of mainland issues marianne

xstorm Radek: coming to this meeting very little of the mainland owners have the time to come at all

Motor Loon: Good to know jack. We was getting very worried (actually still are)

Greywolf Moonlight: I even had one griefer tell me that if you banned his isp, he would just use a VPN out of Japan

Bo Forcella: Now Jack, it would be interesting to know how much high the priority on griefers is.... the platform is your core business, afterall.

Uni Ninetails: thought they banned from hardware id and mac addy of the computer, mind you can get past that

Equinox Pinion: not sure they can do something against alt griefers bo

Marianne McCann: Any number of things, really. I know in places like Bay City itcan run the gamut from people blocking linden-protected spaces, broken Linden content, unfair use of resources, etc., etc.

Jack Linden: Alt griefers are a very hard problem to solve

Melody Regent: Uni, they can use spoofers, that is why it is even MORE imparative to allow us to the basic tools of bans and estate returns

xstorm Radek: so if every place like baycity had a community center that info and people can go for upto date info and other things like themes for baycity it will help

Uni Ninetails: remove alts from non premiums? *ducks

Equinox Pinion: you better hide uni :)

xstorm Radek: then mainland owners and work with each other

Melody Regent: I have a great list of very feasible idea, that would help us at an estate level

Motor Loon: Simple solution is to make it harder to make a new account. Or even make it so you options are extremely limited without some ID on your account. No greifer would post his RL info on the account he was going to greif with.

Marianne McCann: true, XStorm. Many are surprised to learn that Bay City even *has* a theme. And finding info on Nova Albion has been a challenge for me

Jack Linden: xstorm, i think you make a fair point and we could do more there. Let me take that on as something to think about more

Jack Linden: Motor, it's hard to make signup harder and not just slow down genuine new signups though

xstorm Radek: its the same way when you look at Corsica what will its theme be ?

Equinox Pinion: can you not make a weekly meeting with one of your concierge guys with the different mainland regions jack

Jack Linden: At that stage we don't know enough about someone to know who or what they are

Equinox Pinion: and they take all hte open stuff and work on it

xstorm Radek: will there be a mainland community center ?/

Techwolf Lupindo: Just fixes the estate bans will help a long way with the problem with griefters and ther is a metalist of tools to use to combat grieters on the pjira.

Motor Loon: But jack, would it be terrible if a new account was limited - atleast just enough not to be able to use the account for the greifing we see?

Jack Linden: Equinox.. with 5000+ Mainland regions we'd have to think hard about how we'd do it. Maybe by continent

Greywolf Moonlight: Jack, I think we are trying to say "a little less talk, and alot more action,please"

xstorm Radek: yes Jack

Equinox Pinion: yes by continent....could be a start

Jack Linden: Motor, do you mean not allowing a new resident to rez an object or run a script?

Jack Linden: That would be pretty sucky for genuine new residents

Ardy Lay: Lately I have been seeing accounts that have been dormant for years show up as griefers.

Driftwood Miles: uh huh

Melody Regent: we can use age verify to keep people coming into our sims, what about also giving us the ability to AVATAR AGE prevent people. IE - The Estate owners can say how old a person must be to get in. SO at the Estate level I can say that people under 7 days old dont even get the OPTION to TP to my sim or whateve age I want

Ardy Lay: We AR them and they just keep coming back with the same account.

xstorm Radek: start with a meeting place for Corsica such as a mainland community center jack will be a great start and do one for the rest of them

Uni Ninetails: Avatar age would be good

Jack Linden: Melody, that is feasible. We could definitely do that

MissMissy Moonbeam: why not make new accounts spend, say, 3 days on Help Island before they can tp out? no greifer is going to wait 3 days to greif

Equinox Pinion: yes avi age might work

Ciaran Laval: A lot of noobs won't wait 3 days to tp out either

Uni Ninetails: Nah then a grifer would just "cache" some alts and wait

Motor Loon: Mabye if a new resident couldn't rez selfreplicating objects, couldn't rez particlepoofers it would help os out - AND give them quite an push in the direction of getting their ID on file so they COULD do these things.

Melody Regent: hey, not beoing allowed to rez a prim or use a script for 7 days? or 14 days. Let them learn to wear clothing and TP and not shoot cagers? Give them more things to do the older they get, yes that is not a bad idea, but ESTAE controls are what I would be happy with...... Well, working ones

Driftwood Miles: good idea Melody

MissMissy Moonbeam: true, Ciaran, just grasping at straws out of frustration with this mess

Qie Niangao: except that determined griefers will have a whole army of spare alts, pre-aged.

Uni Ninetails: Hmmm how about an option for if avatar is less than x they cannot; Build, res, tp etc in estate options. Then you could allow new people in but not build etc

Greywolf Moonlight: also, start taking action against the CREATORS of the objects that are used SOLEY to grief with, like the self-replicating particle spammers

Ciaran Laval: Yes this seems to be the issue with these suggestions, it's going to punish genuine accounts whilst griefers will happily wait it out

Alliez Mysterio: If I was new and could not do a thing, I would not stay

Fem Darcy: lol... but a griefer can create accounts wait a couple days or a week whatever he needs and then go grief with them

Bo Forcella: ok folks, ive said this before, we are confronting tech-savy folks. We "just" need to have people at the same level (and with more optios, being Lindens) to work on the bugs.

Marianne McCann: Sounds like one of those "this is why we cn't have nice things" things

Melody Regent: Jack, what not a programmer, but what Qie says makes me wonder. Is it possible to watch a person on a certain IP make alts over and over. SO if someone comes in and makes 50 alts in one day, you get an alert that this person is creating these. Can there be a way to see thse AS THEY ARE MADE?

xstorm Radek: im starting to think why not give the griefers Korea sims

Motor Loon: But if you was new Alliez, and saw others players being able to do all sort of things because the put their ID on file... wouldnt you do it also?

MissMissy Moonbeam: well, if our estate tools worked like they should, we might not be having this conversation...

xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

Jack Linden: we've always had these problems because with great freedoms you get the freedom to do bad. It's generally very hard to limit the badness without also impacting genuine users

Equinox Pinion: sometimes you get the same ISP for different residents

Alliez Mysterio: Sure I would

Uni Ninetails: Jack you almost got a slap from quoting spideman

Greywolf Moonlight: [11:55] Greywolf Moonlight: also, start taking action against the CREATORS of the objects that are used SOLEY to grief with, like the self-replicating particle spammers

Jack Linden: Melody, potentially we could monitor account creation like that

Jack Linden: But I don't know what exactly that would gain us

Toxic Menges: Most UK isp's have dynamic rather than static IP's .. banning IP's is no good here in the main

Jack Linden: hehe Uni

Wilma Philbin: It might help you find some of the bot farms?

Ciaran Laval: Yup in the UK static IP's are generally a premium service, most of us have dynamic ip's

Equinox Pinion: greywolf..yuo can make such a script in 2 minutes

Qie Niangao: you'll have to pry my Copybot Protector Mk IVIVXXX from my cold dead hands.

Bo Forcella: Ips can be spoofed, MACs can be spoofed, its pretty easy to do. And they can proxy as well

Motor Loon: well, jack... if you want to keep the ALTs easy access, you certainly need to follow thru on the actions against those who misuse SL very soon, and very effective.

MissMissy Moonbeam: we have greifers using items created by avis who have been "taken out" by LL....why is that allowed?

Khamon Fate: It wouldn't gain you anything Jack; it would likely dent your stats.

Melody Regent: Yes, but waiting a week to come at me with an alt that is named MelodyIsACunt Vyper, may make them cool down after a week or find a new person to play with

Jack Linden: yeah, a lot of users have dynamic IPs

Dytska Vieria: Greywolf, a griefer can take an object and script created by anyone with modify rights and change them.

Kyrion Yalin: If a new resident can t do all things we, older oens, can do he/seh will find SL a boing place, and they will leave. LL staff Just has to work more and to plan less. that is the real problem

Alliez Mysterio: I agree

Driftwood Miles: :O

Major McCaw: Th AV ge thing sounds like the best place to start too me

xstorm Radek: ogpx draft hope to see more like that ann

Marianne McCann: Time f'r me to scoot. Have fun, all!

xstorm Radek: oopppsss

Equinox Pinion: how many griefer reports do you have per day jack?

Ciaran Laval: Bye Mari

Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!

Jack Linden: okay guys, well i have to scoot. this flew by this week

Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

xstorm Radek: bye Jack

Wilma Philbin: bye Jack

Uni Ninetails: tah Jack

Greywolf Moonlight: well, deleting the items that a griefer has made after his account has been deleted may work wonders

Sue Peregrine: Bye Jack

Kyrion Yalin: Bye Jack

Bo Forcella: TC Jack, and PLEASE think about what you have heard in here...

Khamon Fate: Thanks for hosting Jack

Qie Niangao: thanks jack

xstorm Radek: i have to go see a ghost

Alliez Mysterio: Take care

Jack Linden: i hear the unhappyness re. the estate tools. will go push harder on those to find out what is happening

Fem Darcy: bye JAck

Greywolf Moonlight: deleting them from the asset servers, i meant

MissMissy Moonbeam: thank you, Jack

Jack Linden: take care all!