User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-12-03
Jack Linden: hey folks!
Ludmilia Zapedzki: hello Jack
Equinox Pinion: where did you get that from ardy :)
Equinox Pinion: hi jack
Driftwood Miles: Hello Jack :)
Charlene Trudeau: hi jack :)
Jack Linden: sorry I'm very slightly late - previous meeting overran a little
Equinox Pinion: thanks ardy
Jack Linden: did our US friends have a good thanksgiving?
Ardy Lay: Jack, <signups>17,440,802</signups> Where is everybody?
Jack Linden: hey Ardy
Jack Linden: what do you mean?
Kristaki Hudson: Good Evening...
Ludmilia Zapedzki: evening, Kristaki
Ardy Lay: An average of about ten thousand SecondLife accounts are created EVERY DAY.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, this does not mean they will buy land, Arty
Bronson Blackadder: not every seed that falls on the ground grows
Bronson Blackadder: lol
Kristaki Hudson: Hello guyz how are ya all Sir jack hello
Equinox Pinion: or stay and come back lol
Jack Linden: hi folks
Ardy Lay: With seventeen million fourhundred fourty thousand eight hundred two accounts in list right now, where is everybody at?
Melody Regent: so Jack, how are the new layouts for the script limits coming? Are you all getting a handle on how you want them done or still working on that?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, some create basic accounts
Ciaran Laval: Alts Ardy
Logger Sewell: hi all
Charlene Trudeau: basic accts can still own land on estate regions
Ludmilia Zapedzki: hello Logger
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes, totally, that's why they won't own mainland
Jack Linden: Well signups don't translate into active residents at 1:1 obviously, and we know we lose people in various ways. We've had strong gains in new registrations recently
Ardy Lay: How many people here met a "day zero account" yesterday and had a good experience with them?
Charlene Trudeau: that's one that works both ways, Ardy
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes, and some people can get lost when they come in second life for the first time
Equinox Pinion: i did for sure ardy
Charlene Trudeau: too many read those profiles and are immediately prejudiced against, too
Ardy Lay: I met 14. All of them are now banned.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: some quit and don't come back anymore
Alexxa Despres: I agree Charlene ;)
Equinox Pinion: many ludminlia
Charlene Trudeau: I've had new accounts positively cry because no one will talk to them and they don't know what to do
Jack Linden: we've a ton of stuff going on around new residents, for example the changes to the main logged out webpage
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes
Qie Niangao: Blondin said something interesting at his Zindra meeting... paraphrasing: Viewer 2.0 will be so different, there's no rush to bring in new people now since they'll just have to relearn the UI anyway, and too many would leave anyway, compared to the stickiness expected from 2.0.
Jack Linden: we're orientation experience is being worked on too
Ardy Lay: They are banned because of their activities when they came inworld.
Dennis Lagan: jack, could be, but i know that nearly all "newbies" i meet, and that are really a lot with the amount of sims we have, are alts. there was a time, where sl had a really big growth, where we indeed met a lot of REAL newbies.
Ciaran Laval: M said in his radio interview that things will look very different in six months too
Jack Linden: the new Viewer is far more browser-like in design and we do expect it to be much more friendly for new residents
Charlene Trudeau: yes, being able to ban by avatar age is a dual edged sword and that kind of prejudicial treatment is horrible
Ludmilia Zapedzki: the weak point with second life is user experience : the resident has to learn how to use a bunch of things
Jack Linden: so we're trying to balance that with making sure it's also still great for existing users
Ardy Lay: We do NOT ban by age!!!
Ludmilia Zapedzki: some can't stand, they can't get enough patience
Charlene Trudeau: I didn't say you did, ARdy
Charlene Trudeau: but many out there do
Marianne McCann: Hi, everyone
Marianne McCann grins
Ciaran Laval: Yeah, that's not going to happen Jack, people don't like change, even if evbentually they realise it was a good change
Ardy Lay: Be try to educate them in the TOS/CS but it's obvious what they are in SL for and that the have been here before.
Jack Linden: Dennis, i'd agree.. some proportion of new accounts are clearly alts. But not all.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes, not all
Equinox Pinion: and you stopped the mentor program which helped them jack...they need a human to talk with them when they start
Jack Linden: And as the grid gets larger and larger, the odds of meeting a new resident (or a Linden) go down
Ludmilia Zapedzki: I see nex residents everyday
Kristaki Hudson: yeah like finding a nail in the sea....
Ludmilia Zapedzki: and I can assure you I mentor new residents everyday
Alexxa Despres: I see grey people every day ;-P
Marianne McCann: Ya, I run across a fair amount of truly new folks in the BC hubs.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: sometimes it can happen we see alts, but generally they don't neep any help from us
Jack Linden: Ciaran, it'll definitely be a big change for people. But I think the 'classic' Viewer will still be working alongside for some time after launch
Charlene Trudeau: when will we get to beta it, Jack?
Ciaran Laval: Pitchforks will go up in sales again I predict
Jack Linden: Charlene, not sure. I expect that team will blog about it when they have a firm date
Melody Regent: timeline Jack?
Charlene Trudeau: speaking of pitchforks and sales.... is there any truth to the rumour about inventory restrictions coming down on us any time soon? I heard actual numbers beind discussed in concierge chatter channel the other day
Jack Linden: I don't have one for the new Viewer: depends how final dev and QA go - if we hit problems then obviously we'll want to fix those
Jack Linden: Charlene, no current plans for inventory limits. It's always one of those things that is talked about but right now we have no plans there
Drongle McMahon: What exciting land stuff are you doing, Jack, or do you have time to get back to the microplotters?
Charlene Trudeau: good, because that would be a critical blow to our economy we can't afford
Marianne McCann: ...and the camping/bots
Charlene Trudeau: even though I understand the reasons behind it
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, yes, what about the bots ? (above all, some landbots who do not refund land on mistake) ?
Jack Linden: Drongle, most of my time recently has been in thinking of where and goes over the next few years, about the long term. We're doing a lot of planning and dersign around what a virtual experience should be in 3 or 5 years
Jack Linden: *land
Ludmilia Zapedzki: I still see the lands of those landbots for sale on first page
Jack Linden: Oh dear, too many spellos. Sorry. :)
Dennis Lagan: it doesn't take long though to clean your inventory a bit and delete thousands of items. at least with me. i maybe bought 200 things in 2.5 years time, all the rest are crappy freebies, copies, and notecards and landmarks that i could delete for ages
Melody Regent: we speak typeese Jack
Ciaran Laval: 5 years is a long time in this market Jack, I hope you have a plan B, C and D ;)
Charlene Trudeau: we learn to be fluent in typo in SL, Jack
Marianne McCann: Dennis - want to tackle mine next? I just got it down to 52k
Qie Niangao: Uh, well Jack, unless the plans are for land to go to hell in 3 to 5 years, there's still a lot of unfinished business.
Jack Linden: Charlene, when it comes to the problem of asset storage, there are other factors than just limits.. such as how long we retain content for accounts that leave etc
Charlene Trudeau: that's you, Dennis, what about content creators? or estate owners with no copy setting stuff that they have to store for the next season they change out, and so on
Jack Linden: But as i said, no plans there at the moment
Drongle McMahon: Well, here's an idea, it could be free of microlpots!
Ludmilia Zapedzki: O_o
Charlene Trudeau: then I'd recommend your first area of harshness on inventory would be a stated policy on storage for accounts that leave
Drongle McMahon: But that's for one year, not three, I hope.
Dennis Lagan: well, the in ventory window is a bitg failure ofcourse. if it would be more like a windowzs folder, with little previews of snapshots for example, scaling of icon sizes and so on, it would be so much easier to handle
Ciaran Laval: If the inventory was easier to manage that would help, whom an item is from and sorting by item type would be good
Melody Regent: Jack, asset issues are a huge deal. That is something that needs to be adressed sooner than later. I know we talked about the Server Classes changing and making the more even on the grid, what about asset issues?
Jack Linden: Qie, we're not ignoring the issues. Obviously there are short term things that we *must* handle, but when we design how to do those fixes we also need to be aware of the longer term
Jack Linden: For example, I'm very eager that we openup more of the controls to Estates over time - so that Estates build their own products rather than us selling specific products to them
Ciaran Laval: ?
Drongle McMahon: Will LL still be managing mainland in three years?
stormi Capalini: example?
Driftwood Miles: ?
Alexxa Despres: ??
Alexxa Despres: products?
Charlene Trudeau: what he's saying is maybe we buy a whole server and we design our region specs within the max they can handle ourselves
Ludmilia Zapedzki: hummm
Ciaran Laval: ?!!!!!?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: one thing is sure : mainland sales are down and crashing, it's apocalyptic
Jack Linden: We should recognise that Estates are our partners, are resellers and add value and that to do that well they need to be able to control resources for their regions, perhaps decide whether prims vs script load is important to them and so on
Charlene Trudeau: or a whole cpu and you designate the mix of things similar to homesteads, os and full prim limits yourself
Drongle McMahon: Maybe there will be a huge earthquake.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes Drongle
Dennis Lagan: we also need more "automation". more possiblities to have a script taking care about our sims. for example the ability to see which parcels are for sale. it shoudl be at least available to estate owners and managers, not saying everony should be able to check that with a script
Jack Linden: We probably have too much crossover between retail and wholesale in our land market, so I'd like us to better separate those out and let Estates have more of those levers
Jack Linden: Dennis - absolutely.
Ciaran Laval: Oh right choices of product, you should do that with other areas like premiums too
Jack Linden: Giving tools for handling rental agreements, or land reclamation, or land resetting, or governance issues.. the list is long. But ultimately for estate owners that want to have that level of control we should be providing the tools
Motor Loon: Sounds pretty damn good Jack.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes
Melody Regent: I know I would like to see more access to my sims on the webside. IE, be able to add/remove EM or do restarted on the website instead of logging in and going to that sim. Is that something you are looking into Jack?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: this is a good point
Jack Linden: If someone wants to build a land business around zero gravity, 5 avatars, no land and heavy physics load.. we should have the levers in place that allows them to sell that experience
Charlene Trudeau: I use a third party tool with a bot to do restarts and estate level kick/ban now, its AWESOME
Jack Linden: Melody.. totally agree. Web tools and remote management are key parts of allowing estates to scale
Alexxa Despres: jack ,those all sound like positive moves for estate owners.. great to hear
Equinox Pinion: which one is it charlene
Charlene Trudeau: no one should have to leave their event to go restart a region
Charlene Trudeau: Fox Reports
Charlene Trudeau: I can talk to you about itlater, Equinox
Equinox Pinion: thank you!
stormi Capalini: me as well please, Charlene
Equinox Pinion: that is such a pain to do it manualy
Jack Linden: controlling media or ban lists, are both things we could build good web tools or APIs to handle remotely
Jack Linden: For example
Melody Regent: ban lists that work are missing Jack
Melody Regent: there is a Jira that has alot of attention and noone has even bothered to assign it to someone
Charlene Trudeau: media would be awesome too, trying to change the whole estate over to seasonal music or an estate wide event sucks
Dennis Lagan: an other thing is that estate owners/ managers should have access to the about land windows of their residents, currently we can't change settings in it without reclaiming, it would make helping them so much more easy
stormi Capalini: here here Dennis!
Charlene Trudeau: and ban lists need to be able to be sorted by DATE so you can purge effectively once those griefer accounts have been cycled to new ones
Jack Linden: Yeah, I know Melody. We've a bunch of those problems to fix though some may be fixed during redesign for something much better rather than just fixed (if that makes sense)
Seattle LeShelle: good point dennis
Charlene Trudeau: yes, we need and admin override on our estate for land parcels
Melody Regent: I want to be able to set settings in estate level. Like not allowing ban lines or restricting sounds to parcels... etc
Charlene Trudeau: esp for things they set that are against covenant
Melody Regent: this way they cant screw it up, it is estate managed
Jack Linden: Dennis, like a local godmode? yeah, I can see why that would make sense
Charlene Trudeau: right, Melody
Charlene Trudeau: we need that too
Seattle LeShelle: we definitly need all of that.
Dennis Lagan: yes.
Monty Forzane: Hi Jack, I have a mainland property that I can not even log into half the time because one parcel owner has the sim full at almost all times. My vistors (if they can get in) can't even walk around. This person only owns 1/8 of that region. What could be a solution?
Equinox Pinion: and what would really help big estates.....having different levels of estate managers
Jack Linden: If we head in that directionthen estates will become more of a reseller/wholesale/partnership (at least those that wish to be focussed on being a business)
stormi Capalini: yes Equinox!
Melody Regent: i just want MORE managers
Charlene Trudeau: that too, Melody <G>
Qie Niangao: hmmm... so, maybe there really shouldn't be a market for Mainland going forward. (That's not a Mainland vs Estates thing, I'm just sayin'... do I really want to hold a bunch of Mainland that can't do any of those cool things? Not the admin stuff, but the "zero gravity, 5 avatars, no land, heavy physics" things)
Jack Linden: Monty, abusing region resources is a terms of service issue, so you should abuse report them so that our support agents can take a look
Ludmilia Zapedzki: mainland market is dying
Ludmilia Zapedzki: ...
Ludmilia Zapedzki: lol
Charlene Trudeau: Qie, once you get hooked on estate you can't go back ;P even with the limited cool factor we have now
Jack Linden: Equinix, I think estate managers should operate more like groups, with roles and permissions.
Marianne McCann: Ya. I'm more than a bit concerned about mainland as well
Jack Linden: *Equinox
Ciaran Laval: I saw a media tool the other day....hmm maybe it was Land Machine
Monty Forzane: thank you Jack
Charlene Trudeau: yes, Jack!!!
Ciaran Laval: How do you import someone else's friend list?
Melody Regent: [11:30] Jack Linden: Equinix, I think estate managers should operate more like groups, with roles and permissions.
Melody Regent: I love you Jack
Equinox Pinion: yes that would be good jack
Charlene Trudeau: we definitely need that
Ludmilia Zapedzki: I think in the future, there will be only estate lands or mainland only managed by LL
Jack Linden: Qie.. I expect that some features will filter down to Mainland very naturally and that we, as estate manager there, will get much more creative at helping Mainland communities to use those controls
Charlene Trudeau: my sandbox guardians NEED to be able to return griefer items from the surrounding parcels NOT just the land they have group perms to
Charlene Trudeau: but I can't, not enough manager space and no other way to give the permission
Kristaki Hudson: issue i must go sorry tkae care
Jack Linden: Mainland is a very important part of Second Life
Marianne McCann: I very much prefer maainland, myself, and the mainland experience.
Ciaran Laval: Bye Krisaki
Driftwood Miles: Is Jack Linden really Santa Clause?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: some features, and also the actuel economic world crisis, Jack
Melody Regent: If not for mainland I would not be where I am today
Alexxa Despres: LOL
Qie Niangao: interesting... interesting use of "communities" there, Jack. That may mean something I don't appreciate fully yet.
Equinox Pinion: we will know it soon driftwood lol
Ludmilia Zapedzki: *actual
Jack Linden: Haha, nooo Driftwood. :)
Ciaran Laval: There's always a clause to be wary of Driiftwood
Melody Regent: but mainland 3years ago and mainland today are not even in the same universe
Charlene Trudeau: you need to hire estate managers to be your mainland estate managers ;P but you need to be able to hire in more than four states
Driftwood Miles: LOL
Driftwood Miles: LOL Ciaran *nods*
Dennis Lagan: no, i am santa, you missed my hat
Jack Linden: Qie, oh i just mean to say that the multiple ownership model of Mainland tends to make some controls hard to allow there.. but that where communities hold larger areas it gets easier
Charlene Trudeau: the sad thing is, Jack, that even if someone controls an entire mainland region, there's no allowance for upgrading those controls for them
Qie Niangao: right, I understand Jack. a reason to be a member of a community: not a bad thing. :)
Jack Linden: For example, if we allowed parcel level ground textures. That mightnot make sense for mainland unless a group owns a substantial space within the regin
Jack Linden: *region
Marianne McCann: True, or say in some of the existing mainland communities (Bay City, etc.)
Ludmilia Zapedzki: true, Jack
Motor Loon: yes, that could become real "pretty"
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes, but impossible to realize
Charlene Trudeau: but on estate I'd love a better way to 'paint' the terrain
Jack Linden: Charlene, well yes.. agreed.. and that *is* the Estate advantage in many respects.. but there are some things that we can add for Mainlanders to keep pushing their experience forward
Ludmilia Zapedzki: oh really, jack ?
Melody Regent: Like what Jack?
Charlene Trudeau: I understand, but it was very frustrating when I did have a full region mainland while still running my estates
Ludmilia Zapedzki: give us an example, please
Charlene Trudeau: I just couldn't do everything I needed to
Qie Niangao: by the way, Jack--already told Michael: nice progress on SLRR, and some good stuff on roads coming. Very happy about that.
Marianne McCann: Oh yes. I can't wait to see the SLRR trains back up and running, myself
Jack Linden: For example, if we get Script Limits well defined and released, whereas estates would have controls at region and parcel level, we might beableto give mainlanders tools at parcel level
Ludmilia Zapedzki: woww
Ludmilia Zapedzki: it would be excellent
Melody Regent: not bad
Ludmilia Zapedzki: :)
Jack Linden: Some controls we can and shold devolve down to Mainland or parcel leverl so that mainlanders can use them too
Marianne McCann: Please!
Ludmilia Zapedzki: oh, it wold be very usefull
Ludmilia Zapedzki: oh yes, please
Ludmilia Zapedzki: :)
Charlene Trudeau: all parcel level should be able to see top scripts, Jack
Charlene Trudeau: for their parcel
Qie Niangao: yes, that would be a *huge* value.
Charlene Trudeau: scripters need to see what they are doing to us
Marianne McCann: I agree, Charlene. That's been a biggie in my book
Drongle McMahon: And mine
Jack Linden: Charlene, good example and yes. agreed
Ludmilia Zapedzki: this could change the way of how many people consider mainland
Zoha Boa: /Me is looking for his book
Marianne McCann: I would also love to see the ability to list who can build or script on a parcel, much like the allowed or banned lists of today.
Marianne McCann: (Rather than doing it via groups)
Qie Niangao: it would in fact change the Mainland to be a better experience, just being able to measure what we're doing to it unintentionallyu.
Marianne McCann: (or in addition to).
Jack Linden: I've had feedback from people that we've loaded too much control into Groups, so Marianne.. that might be something to look at
Charlene Trudeau: I still say we need a way to separate 'land group' needs from 'chat/update group' needs
Marianne McCann: True, Qie. That would be a big boon. I know I would ov3e to know if any of my parcels are causing troubles like that
Charlene Trudeau: with a different 'bucket' of groups for each type
Melody Regent: well, we need one of two things to happen with groups Jack... we need more roles or more groups...
Ciaran Laval: I'd prefer to be able to devolve roles to certain parcels
Marianne McCann: It would certainly make it easier for, say, mall or other store owners. Just add someoen to the "build" list, rather than having to add them to yet another group.
Charlene Trudeau: we need both, Melody, along with division on what they are used for
Melody Regent: I agree Charelene
Charlene Trudeau: my community event group doesn't need land controls
Melody Regent: but I learned not to ask for two much
Melody Regent: give them a choice
Charlene Trudeau: my land control groups don't need chat functions
Melody Regent: then get it
Melody Regent: then hound for the left off choice later
Melody Regent grins
Marianne McCann: 'zactly
Marianne McCann: Gotta run. Lotsa meetings today f'r me!
Charlene Trudeau: but I'd be happy with double the groups
Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
Melody Regent: bye Mari
Alexxa Despres: Bye Marianne ;)
Charlene Trudeau: And, Jack, you may want to look at ways for us to 'earn' more groups
Charlene Trudeau: whether thats by amount of land ownership, or some tie to economic impact as a creator or whatever
Melody Regent: basics, none pay have very groups, paid more.. estate/land owner more... etc
Charlene Trudeau: simply the more we do in world to be productive citizens the more we need more groups
Melody Regent: Mel the most
Jack Linden: One question will be whether an estate owner should be able to control on/off for all of the land controls, so for example could choose to switch off media controls for a resident.. my gut feel is that yes, we should allow estates to control their experiences fully
Melody Regent: KIdding, I actually keep mine under 20
Charlene Trudeau: yes, Jack
Melody Regent: yes
Ludmilia Zapedzki: Charlene, are you talking about the 25 groups limit ?
Dennis Lagan: yes, and limit the use of banlines on estate level for example
Charlene Trudeau: esp being able to prohibit ban lines and require that sounds be restricted to parcel, those are ABSOLUTELY things we should be able to set estate wide
Melody Regent: and let us controls those estate level AND parcel level
Zoha Boa: I had to reclaim today 4 parcels to turn ban lines down and had them set back for sale to my residents because they would not turn them off
Charlene Trudeau: yes, I am, Ludmilla
Jack Linden: Charlene, re. groups.. indeed. And it might be that group count be tied to subscription or account type or account age.
Jack Linden: Lots of ways to look at that
Charlene Trudeau: right, Zoha
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, the problem is that it would require the linden lab modify the database
Ludmilia Zapedzki: ....
Charlene Trudeau: right, Jack
Ciaran Laval: You can turn banlines off in the viewer now, are they any worse than security devices?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: do you imagine, if I'm right, the time and money it can take ?
Ludmilia Zapedzki: that's why, if I'm right, the group limit did not evolve
Charlene Trudeau: Ciaran, if they are prohibited by covenant, I should be able to restict their placement, period
Dennis Lagan: as long as they are not turned of by default in the viewer, its no good ciaran.
Zoha Boa: an estate manager should be able to change ALL land settings of a resident. to apply the covenant but also to explain to a resident how to do something
Ludmilia Zapedzki: Am I right, Jack ?
Charlene Trudeau: and some estates odn't allow security orbs at ground level either
Melody Regent: Ludmilia, seems they are making some massive changed to the viewer, dataabase.. the whole kit and kaboodle...might as well ask for the sun, moon and starts NOW
Jack Linden: Not quite Ludmilia, we are constantly evolving the database and the shape of the data we hold, but with groups there are issues around load for example that are also a factor
Charlene Trudeau: and when I have a parcel empty at ground level because they have skybox only
Ludmilia Zapedzki: ahhh, ok
Jack Linden: We have to ble clear on how 50 groups vs 25 would impact resources
Charlene Trudeau: there is NO reason someone shouldn't be able to walk across the parcel and not run into even an invisible wall
Ludmilia Zapedzki: oyu mean more lag
Ludmilia Zapedzki: more bugs
Qie Niangao: well, if Premium membership is going to remain at all, it really needs some more benefits. It's just not a big draw now.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: *you
Jack Linden: And is group count driven more by socialising or land management, or being a business..
Jack Linden: It's probably all of those
Talarus Luan: It is driven by many factors.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, then it would nee more servers to hold SL
Ludmilia Zapedzki: ...
Charlene Trudeau: Which is wy, Jack, I suggested two types of groups, I have to assume that the heavy controls required for all the perms in the current groups would 'weigh' more than a simple list for chat and notice perms
Ludmilia Zapedzki: *need
Zoha Boa: i have 2 alts who hold groups for me as owner, they have to invite me each time if i need to work on something
Qie Niangao: I'm guessing that splitting off "social groups" that cannot own land would reduce the resource demand of groups.
Jack Linden: So do we give more groups to bi gland owners specifically, or again do we just tie it to the type of account
Talarus Luan: The load issues need to be resolved so that you can remove the limit entirely, or at least push it out to something reasonable, like hundreds or a thousand.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: ahh, I did not know you were doing that
Melody Regent: to account types Jack... but.... here is the flaw
Melody Regent: no
Melody Regent: I take that back
Dennis Lagan: why not to both? for example if you are big land owner and/or premium, you get more groups.
Melody Regent: paid accounts get more bennies
Melody Regent: not just land
Ludmilia Zapedzki: well, the problem is that it will impact SL performance, Jack ?
Melody Regent: yes and being a land/sim owner you get the most
Bronson Blackadder: I would like to see higher stpend levels that increase with each tier level
Melody Regent: so levels of accounts...
Melody Regent: yes bronson
Jack Linden: Yep Dennis, might be various ways to earnmore groups
Charlene Trudeau: paid accounts should have more than premium, but large land owners may need more groups simply to land manage, esp those renting mainland where groups can become almost a mass number necessity
Jack Linden: I'm just saying that there are lots of ways to look at it.
Talarus Luan: The primary bottleneck is the group chat system, which should be scrapped and re-done in the first place.
Charlene Trudeau: I can't begin to tell you what kind of crisit ibecomes when I have to empty up to 8 group slots so I can be working effectively on RFL each year
Melody Regent: your dripping Talarus
Melody Regent: :)
Zoha Boa: free , premium and gold members or something
Qie Niangao: good point, Charlene: groups are about the only tools there is for managing Mainland rentals.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: yes Zoha, I agree
Talarus Luan: I'm always drippy. :)
Melody Regent: well, add more roles in ALLL groups for one
Ludmilia Zapedzki: maybe 25 for basic
Zoha Boa: give newbies a max. of 15 groups, when they get premium they can have 25 groups as existing residents
Charlene Trudeau: Talarus, again, separate land groups from chat system entirely
Ciaran Laval: Free is often a misnomer
Jack Linden: Tal, we've a lot of problems there, I agree. Personally, and this is just my view, I'd prefer it be more like irc in how it operates
Ludmilia Zapedzki: and then, increase depending on the level of the account
Melody Regent: Chat Jack, that is a massive joke
Talarus Luan: Absolutely, Charlene
Zoha Boa: and gold members to 50 or so
Milano Ferrentino: Another matter related to group count is trying to find a person's last log-in, which is particularly important when a long-term and reliable resident suddenly falls behind in rent. Now one has to try to temporarily join a group that individuals is in to see when they last were inworld. Why is last log-in openly available, like SL "birthday"?
Melody Regent: talking in chat for groups is hit and miss
Talarus Luan: Yes, that should be #1 on your priority list to fix, Jack
Melody Regent: and one of the worst things in SL right now
Talarus Luan: It's been FUBAR for years now.
Talarus Luan: No more shinies in the viewer, or the next viewer or whatever.
Talarus Luan: Fix the crap that is broken badly.
Motor Loon: agree... groupchat can be extremely lagging if working at all... espicially in large groups
Melody Regent: fix the crap we NEED to function, not the pretty crap I turn off anyway
Milano Ferrentino: Meant to say why is last log-n NOT openly available.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: oups, I have another meeting too, I have to leave
Jack Linden: Tal, often the two go together. Do you spend 3 months fixing chat, or do you spend 5 months doing a new chat thaht fixes the old problems.
Ardy Lay: I would like to be able to see last login date too.
Qie Niangao: Milano: extra benefit: save on a bunch of script use, if we could know last-login without sampling for it by script.
Ludmilia Zapedzki: goodbye everybody, have a good morning/afternoon/evening
Melody Regent: Have a good day Ludmilia
Charlene Trudeau: 5 months doing a new chat that is way better than a fixed version of current :)
Motor Loon: ..or makes 20 new bugs jack ;-)
Driftwood Miles: Bye Ludmilia
Jack Linden: As part of the Viewer work for example, a lot of underlying problems have been fixed that may not be obvious but that dramatically change how quickly we can move on new features
Melody Regent: I would be happy if things fixed didnt mess something eslle up.
Charlene Trudeau: Jack, while we're wishing for viewer 2.0.... and chat... being able to dock our chat windows, local and IM, outside the main viewer window would be AWESOME
Jack Linden: hehe Motor! so cynicsal!
Jack Linden: *cynical
Motor Loon: I know ;-)
Melody Regent: thats my baby
Motor Loon: But it comes from experience Jack bro ;-)
Charlene Trudeau: I have both open constantly when not building, but when I am, I'm forever having to cycle between them and my build work to keep tabs on things
Charlene Trudeau: glancing outside the main viewer to keep up with a convo would be soooo much easier
Jack Linden: Ooh modeless dialogs would be an interesting change
Talarus Luan: Well, Jack, since I am suggesting spending 5 months to do a new chat that fixes all the old problems instead of flexiboobs or whatever, yeah.
Jack Linden: If we could do it without it being super confusing for new residents
Zoha Boa: make an option of it in the preferences that is disabled by default
Charlene Trudeau: right
Bronson Blackadder: hey I want to have my flexy beergut... leave my flexi beergut alone
Motor Loon: lolw
Ardy Lay: Hehe... I open a command shell and run "tail -f chat.txt"
Jack Linden: :)
Ardy Lay: Then I can do that for as many chat groups by name as I want and watch them while I work.
Charlene Trudeau: but bouncing boobies will bring mor enewbs in world than a fixed chat system ;P
Motor Loon: Jack, do your programmers look at some of the alternate viewers to see new ideas that might be real good to put in the mainviewer?
Alexxa Despres: jack..as everyone is giving you their wish list.... what do YOU see as Linden's top wishes..or their TOP 5 priorities this coming year?
Melody Regent: Jack, speaking of wiggly boobies... Why is it that the Emerald viewewr people can give us great viewer oiptions and in a timely manner but you all dont give us some of the wonderful tools they do in the SL viewer?
Melody Regent: (wiggly boobs is NOT a plus)
Melody Regent crosses her arms over her chest
Charlene Trudeau: Motor, like temp textures? a slider for draw distance on the main viewer panel?
Motor Loon thinks boobs should wiggle
Talarus Luan: No, if anything I want to see Yohan with a flexi gut..
Charlene Trudeau: lol, Melody, tell that to the strip clubs <>G
Charlene Trudeau: long and short, sex sells so bouncy boobs can only be a plus ;P
Motor Loon: charlene, and the fact that I can run a perfect SL experience without having a single HUD attachment on
Talarus Luan: That boy will be able to dribble himself around the room.. <.<
Melody Regent: Yes, the radar on emerald is perfect
Charlene Trudeau: I wish I knew, but I won't use 3rd party viewers cause I'm stubborn, so I only get to drool over heresay
Melody Regent: Char darrrrling, would I mislead you?
Jack Linden: Alexxa, I would say that it's about making the experience much easier to get into.. on all fronts. Easier for new residents (Viewer), easier for casual visotors (website), easier for estates (tools), easier for landowners, merchants and so on. It'll be about how we can make such a complex world be easy and safe
Driftwood Miles: same here Charlene
Motor Loon: Charlene, well, dont try them then, because once you've been on e.g. Emerald, you won't go back to the mainviewer.
Alexxa Despres: Thank you for answering , jack :)
Jack Linden: Okay folks, I have to scram to my next meeting. So much to do! Lovely talk today, thank you all!
Ardy Lay: Jack, please define "safe" in that context.
Melody Regent: see you later Jack
Charlene Trudeau: heh
Melody Regent: thank you for coming
Motor Loon: tc jack man
Charlene Trudeau: he saved that til he had to scram <G>
Driftwood Miles: Thank you Jack...have a good one
Equinox Pinion: take care jack
Charlene Trudeau: take care, Jack
Ciaran Laval: cheers Jack
Jack Linden: hehe
Bronson Blackadder: thanks Jack :)
Melody Regent: ciao all!
Talarus Luan: Jack, one question before you go... on the issue of the remaining few microparcel extortionists, when are we going to see them dealt with? We've seen evidence that some of them are making new 16s or at elast expanding their holdings again.
Zoha Boa: bye jack
Alexxa Despres: thanks jack, appreciate it ;)
lufpleh Obstreperous: if LL introduced an emerald style radar or flexi boobs they would be casigated for adding shinny bloat!!
Jack Linden: Tal, i haven't seen that in the data but if you have examples... send me them.
Jack Linden: bye all!