User:Samuel Linden/Office Hours/2010-03-17

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Sam 19:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC) Sam 19:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

  • [11:32] Teleport completed from LindenWorld C (241,56,26)
  • [11:33] Bronson Blackadder: hiya sam :)
  • [11:33] Samuel Linden: hi
  • [11:34] Samuel Linden: how is everyone today?
  • [11:34] Jonathan Yap: Good afternoon Samuel
  • [11:34] Bronson Blackadder: I think I know exactly why 50% of people log in once and dont log in again.....
  • [11:34] Jonathan Yap: I am doing good, it's finally warmed up this afternoon
  • [11:34] Bronson Blackadder: and here is my evidence...
  • [11:34] Samuel Linden: Bronson, what is your theory?
  • [11:34] Bronson Blackadder: *[11:03] Bronson Blackadder: hiya
  • [11:04] Bronson Blackadder: welcome to SL
  • [11:04] pepone Macarthur: thank you
  • [11:04] Bronson Blackadder: you'll either have a shitload of fun or your gonna get bored
  • [11:04] pepone Macarthur: do you speek english
  • [11:05] Bronson Blackadder: well let me think here....
  • [11:05] Bronson Blackadder: I think so
  • [11:35] Bronson Blackadder: and before I could even tell him I think so.. he just flew away
  • [11:35] Bronson Blackadder: its my guess taht people with a brain or imagination tend to stick around
  • [11:36] Samuel Linden: so you're the reason half the people drop?
  • [11:36] Qie Niangao: lol
  • [11:36] Bronson Blackadder: oh jesus
  • [11:36] Samuel Linden: ;)
  • [11:36] Samuel LindenSamuel Linden thinks that over 50% of the people who login have either brain or imagination
  • [11:36] Bronson Blackadder: you coul dbe onto something there
  • [11:36] Bronson Blackadder: :P
  • [11:36] Samuel Linden: I think there's more we could do
  • [11:37] Samuel Linden: so what do you folks want to talk about today?
  • [11:37] Bronson Blackadder: oh yeah its your unofficial OH
  • [11:37] Bronson Blackadder: lol
  • [11:37] Bronson Blackadder: 1/2OH
  • [11:37] Jonathan Yap: Hmmm, what are our options of subjects?
  • [11:37] Larissa Vacano: hello
  • [11:37] Larissa Vacano: whats topic ;-) ?
  • [11:37] Samuel Linden: I can intelligently discss anything related to the viewer
  • [11:38] Samuel Linden: by some definition of intelligently
  • [11:38] Larissa Vacano: 2.0 ?
  • [11:38] Samuel Linden: media is my specialty
  • [11:38] Samuel Linden: 2.0 is the soon-to-be current viewer
  • [11:38] Jonathan Yap: I ran out of time with Q's office hour--where do you see viewer 2.x going in the future?
  • [11:38] Larissa Vacano: i have still problems with shared media and 2.0
  • [11:38] Samuel Linden: to infinitiy and beyond
  • [11:38] Larissa Vacano: i got an issue and i cant fix it
  • [11:39] Samuel Linden: Larissa, I don't tend to use this time for support
  • [11:39] Samuel Linden: it isn't really fair to the other paricipants
  • [11:39] Larissa Vacano: no i dont want support just want tech talk
  • [11:39] Larissa Vacano: please excuse
  • [11:39] Samuel Linden: Jonathan, in answer to your question we are going to look into delivering Social Media
  • [11:39] Jonathan Yap: Interesting
  • [11:40] Bronson Blackadder: I can say though that the kirsten S20 version of 2.0 is working quite well
  • [11:40] Samuel Linden: and then probably some other new and exciting features related to content creation
  • [11:40] Qie Niangao: so... I'm curious if there's any hope of extending the http-in functionality beyond mime type "text/plain; charset=utf-8"... specifically, something like "text/html" and/or "text/json"
  • [11:40] Bronson Blackadder: teh sidebar doesnt change teh aspect ratio of eth screen anymore
  • [11:40] Samuel Linden: Qie, that's an excellent question
  • [11:40] Bronson Blackadder: the camera controls are fixed
  • [11:40] Samuel Linden: babbage and edelman linden are working on just such a feature
  • [11:40] Bronson Blackadder: teh chat windows go semi ttransparent
  • [11:40] Qie Niangao: oh, superb. I missed babbage's mtg this morning... overslept, hehehe
  • [11:41] Bronson Blackadder: and there is a build in teh context menu
  • [11:41] Samuel Linden: Qie, edelman linden has done some cool stuff with bidirectional comm between LSL and Shared Media
  • [11:41] Bronson Blackadder: even when trying it out ontop of a prim
  • [11:41] Samuel Linden: but there are some pain points we want to address
  • [11:41] Jonathan Yap: Bronson, are you familiar with http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Tweaks
  • [11:42] Samuel Linden: Larissa, what Shared Media issues would you like to discuss?
  • [11:42] Qie Niangao: yes... actually, there's a fun little thread on the Scripting forum, too... there's a kind of "trick" that Kelly (IIRC) used to prettify the LSL output to shared media (not using http-in)
  • [11:42] Bronson Blackadder: yes I am familier with the tweaks
  • [11:43] Larissa Vacano: i am interested to connect my homenet with SL grid
  • [11:43] Bronson Blackadder: but I dont want to have to tweak anything
  • [11:43] Samuel Linden: Qie, that's data urls?
  • [11:43] Qie Niangao: yep
  • [11:43] Bronson Blackadder: I want options in teh viewer to turn them on
  • [11:43] Samuel Linden: Bronson, you don't think one of the reasons so many people drop early on is viewer complexity?
  • [11:43] Jonathan Yap: Me too, but until that day comes that's your option, unless you are a good programmer :)
  • [11:44] Samuel Linden: we get this feedback a lot
  • [11:44] Bronson Blackadder: I got a few friends to join SL
  • [11:44] Samuel Linden: I know existing users want tweakability, but that puts off new users
  • [11:44] paulie Femto: I apologize if this has been asked, but can we look forward to JAVA or SHOCKWAVE support in out shared media?
  • [11:44] Larissa Vacano: i want to connect webcams, webserver, television set top box, door bell homenet with SL and shared media is fine for that
  • [11:44] Bronson Blackadder: and I was able to explain in about 10 minuttes where everything was in eth old viewer
  • [11:44] Samuel Linden: paulie, we are not working on java
  • [11:44] paulie Femto: k
  • [11:44] Bronson Blackadder: they tried teh beta and uninstalled it in teh same amount of time
  • [11:44] Samuel Linden: we are hoping with the release of snowglobe that others will work on t he webkit npapi plugin handling
  • [11:45] paulie Femto: okies
  • [11:45] Clinton Oddfellow: Good Morning :)
  • [11:46] Samuel Linden: good morning
  • [11:46] Samuel Linden: so I have a question
  • [11:46] Morgaine DinovaMorgaine Dinova waves. Is someone capturing the transcript for us latecomers?
  • [11:46] Samuel Linden: there's been a lot of chatter on the forums about security and privacy of Shared Media
  • [11:46] Bronson Blackadder: I can say that if all the tweaks were done with the initial beta release, 2.0 woul dhave got alot more positive response
  • [11:46] Samuel Linden: without turning this into a free-for-all paranoiafest, what are people's thoughts?
  • [11:46] Aargle Zymurgy: yup... my business partner made a tool that will tell anyone's IP if they pass by
  • [11:47] Samuel Linden: aargle, any website is also such a tool
  • [11:47] Aargle Zymurgy: but only if you're actively playing media
  • [11:47] Larissa Vacano: i am thinking more about the advantages of shared media in 2.0 not about the security problems. but that my personal opinion
  • [11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oh wow
  • [11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: Everything is blocktext.
  • [11:47] Qie Niangao: well, I'll never let a Flash viewer anywhere near my execution path, but don't care about IP address privacy.
  • [11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: I can't read anything.
  • [11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: brb
  • [11:48] Samuel Linden: Qie, we are introducing prefs to turn off javascript and plugins
  • [11:48] Qie Niangao: cool. yeah, Flash is my main personal paranoia.
  • [11:48] Samuel Linden: html5 ftw
  • [11:48] Clinton Oddfellow: I'm not sure if this is pertient to that issue, but landowners need to be able to control shared media, in the same way we do build. "group" or "all residents."
  • [11:48] Clinton Oddfellow: running a social area, it's a rather large disturbance if someone comes in wearing a massive prim with goatse or summat on it.
  • [11:49] Samuel Linden: right, you can control rezzing of prims
  • [11:49] Morgaine Dinova: Samuel, I don't know what's gone before as just arrived, but thank you very much for the security improvements coming in a couple of Beta's time re being able to disable Javascript or Flash. Edelman told us about them in a great interview yesterday.
  • [11:49] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Morgaine Dinova(en>>ca): "Samuel, no sé el que ha passat abans, com acaba d'arribar, però moltes gràcies per les millores de seguretat procedents en un parell de "Beta" re poder desactivar JavaScript o Flash. Edelman ens va dir sobre ells en una gran entrevista d'ahir."
  • [11:49] Samuel Linden: but you can't control attachments
  • [11:49] Clinton Oddfellow: we can't control worn shared media prims though, heh.
  • [11:49] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Clinton Oddfellow(en>>ca): "no podem portar el control dels mitjans de comunicació compartida prims encara que, je."
  • [11:49] Larissa Vacano: sharedmedia is working on clothing layers too?
  • [11:49] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Larissa Vacano(en>>ca): "sharedmedia està treballant en les capes de roba també?"
  • [11:50] Samuel Linden: attached prims can display media
  • [11:50] paulie Femto: oooh. shared media clothing textures +1. :)
  • [11:50] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) paulie Femto(en>>ca): "oooh. de mitjans compartits textures roba +1. :)"
  • [11:50] Larissa Vacano: why not ;-)
  • [11:50] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Larissa Vacano(en>>ca): "Per què no ;-)"
  • [11:51] paulie Femto: shared media skins. :)
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) paulie Femto(en>>ca): "de mitjans compartits pells. :)"
  • [11:51] Aargle Zymurgy: thats' just what we need: animated tattoos! :-)
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Aargle Zymurgy(en>>ca): "thats "just el que necessitem: tatuatges animats! :-)"
  • [11:51] paulie Femto: heh
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) paulie Femto(en>>ca): "heh"
  • [11:51] Aargle Zymurgy: "Click me for free L$"
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Aargle Zymurgy(en>>ca): "Feu clic a "em lliure de L $""
  • [11:51] Larissa Vacano: :-)
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Larissa Vacano(en>>ca): ":-)"
  • [11:51] Clinton Oddfellow: This may be a dumb question, but is my calendar skewed? are Nyx's office hours coming up in ten minutes as well?
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Clinton Oddfellow(en>>ca): "Això pot ser una pregunta tonta, però és la meva agenda esbiaixada? són les hores d'oficina Nyx ve en deu minuts, com així?"
  • [11:51] Morgaine Dinova: That was one of the key reasons why we needed more security. You no longer have to visit bad web pages --- they come and visit YOU.
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Morgaine Dinova(en>>ca): "Aquesta va ser una de les raons clau per les que necessitem més seguretat. Ja no ha de visitar les pàgines web mal --- vénen a visitar."
  • [11:51] Jonathan Yap: Nyx cannot come today
  • [11:51] Samuel Linden: so maybe a feature for land owners to disable media attachments?
  • [11:51] (Unnamed)(Unnamed) Jonathan Yap(en>>ca): "Nix no pot venir avui"
  • [11:51] Clinton Oddfellow: Oh, I see.
  • [11:52] Clinton Oddfellow: I'm just making sure my calendar is working, heh
  • [11:52] Aargle Zymurgy: Samuel, yes. about the last thing I'd want in my sim is someone who is a walking billboard
  • [11:52] Jonathan Yap: Yes, it is working, though it might not know about this meeting 30 minutes before Nyx's
  • [11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: Samuel, quick question - are other people able to see what I type on a media prim?
  • [11:52] Samuel Linden: we had talked about a land autoplay setting
  • [11:52] Samuel Linden: that would do it, yes
  • [11:52] Samuel Linden: ?
  • [11:52] Samuel Linden: Sebastean, that depends
  • [11:53] Morgaine Dinova: It's guaranteed that people with JS or Flash exploits will wear media textures and run around the world trying to compromise people's machines. Organized crime is very big business, sadly.
  • [11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm guessing on a regular form, no, but in a flash app like youtube has, yes?
  • [11:53] Samuel Linden: the thing you are typing in must be shared itself
  • [11:54] Samuel Linden: Morgaine, we do provide the ability to turn off rendering of media attachments on other avs
  • [11:54] Aargle ZymurgyAargle Zymurgy agrees with Morgaine
  • [11:54] Samuel Linden: it's in the media settings currently
  • [11:54] Azure Twine: or a new way to grief Morgaine
  • [11:54] Samuel Linden: Prefs->sound & media->play media attached to other avatars
  • [11:54] Morgaine Dinova: Yep Samuel, those protections are important. I'm very pleased with what Edelman told us.
  • [11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: Samuel - my concern has been people wandering around or luring people into areas with malicious content. Antiviruses are obviously an option, but it's still a worry, especially for new users who may not know how to turn off media or even know it's playing.
  • [11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: It was asked yesterday if webkit in teh viewer was registered with antiviruses like a normal browser. Edelman didn't know - do you happen to?
  • [11:55] Jonathan Yap: There is probably a jira for some kind of warning notice the first time you are exposed to shared media, as with many other notices you get the first time something happens.
  • [11:56] Samuel Linden: Sebastean we are also investigating Google's Safe Browsing API
  • [11:56] Clinton Oddfellow: Although you provide the option to turn media off to attached avatars, people will just leave that off, and there are situations (art shows, etc.) where you'd want people to have shared media on. We still need parcel controls to control the use of shared media on our parcels.
  • [11:56] Samuel Linden: Clinton, is autoplay sufficient?
  • [11:56] Clinton Oddfellow: It's often incredibly difficult to help new users navigate through the preferences to find a checkbox to turn off someone's blinking obscenities
  • [11:56] Samuel Linden: for instance if the parcel owner could govern auto play
  • [11:57] Clinton Oddfellow: How would users decide whether or not to play?
  • [11:57] Samuel Linden: you can inspect an object to see it's url
  • [11:57] Samuel Linden: 3 minutes left
  • [11:57] Morgaine Dinova: Turning off all media was always possible, but that breaks all media display, including static pages, so it's not useful, just an emergency measure.
  • [11:57] Clinton Oddfellow: I'm not sure I understand the autoplay concept.
  • [11:57] Clinton Oddfellow: landowners disabling autoplay would stop rendering of shared media content?
  • [11:57] Samuel Linden: so right now the media face has autoplay
  • [11:57] Samuel Linden: as does the user
  • [11:58] Samuel Linden: so if both are true, the media automatically loads
  • [11:58] Aargle Zymurgy: how would that effect media that is actually not really connected to an out-world URL?
  • [11:58] Bronson Blackadder: yay more stuff for the newbie to figure out
  • [11:58] Aargle Zymurgy: that is, HTML content created directly by the prim itself?
  • [11:58] Samuel Linden: so if I rezzed an autoplay prim here, and you have autoplay on, you will seem the media
  • [11:58] Samuel Linden: if we added a land setting, you wouldn't see the media
  • [11:59] Clinton Oddfellow: would it work like flashblock? like, I could click the media to see it if land autoplay was disabled?
  • [11:59] Larissa Vacano: a land setting would be fine
  • [11:59] Samuel Linden: yes clinton
  • [11:59] Mandie Dufour: Hey!
  • [11:59] Morgaine Dinova: The default should I think be autoplay on, Javascript and Flash off, worn media textures off. It's relatively safe owing to no local execution. The only issue remaining is IP harvesting, for which you have to turn media off entirely.
  • [11:59] Jonathan Yap: Samuel, did your team consider having an additional check box to go along with play/no play shared media--it would be called something like "Ask" ? That way someone being exposed to shared media could chose what to turn on.
  • [11:59] Clinton Oddfellow: That could work. We run a large social area that is griefed fairly frequently. Shared media is awesome, but it also gives people a new tool to harass us with.
  • [12:00] Samuel Linden: Jonathan, that would be incredibly disruptive and confusing to new users
  • [12:00] Jonathan Yap: yea, good point
  • [12:00] Samuel Linden: ok, well I have to go
  • [12:00] Samuel Linden: thanks everyone for coming
  • [12:00] Samuel Linden: good discussion today
  • [12:00] Aargle Zymurgy: thanks samuel
  • [12:00] Aargle Zymurgy: any chance for getting a bear?
  • [12:00] Clinton Oddfellow: so if I have this right, if I disable autoplay on my land, and someone comes in with an autoplay prim face, a user can click that prim face to play it?
  • [12:00] paulie Femto: thx!
  • [12:00] Jonathan Yap: thank you Samuel
  • [12:00] Samuel Linden: do people want a more concrete agenda?
  • [12:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: Jonathan, what I suggested was to have prim media off by default, but to have a texture there people could see and click to indicate it was there.
  • [12:00] Larissa Vacano: thank you samuel
  • [12:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: Err, Samuel*
  • [12:01] Morgaine Dinova: Samuel: if implemented in the same way as FlashBlock, it's not disruptive. People just click on the displayed forward arrow icon.
  • [12:01] Bronson Blackadder: oh hell add NetNanny to teh preferences ...ON by default
  • [12:01] Clinton Oddfellow: Thank you, Samuel.
  • [12:01] Morgaine Dinova: Take care, Samuel :-)
  • [12:02] Samuel Linden: thanks all
  • [12:02] Morgaine Dinova: Are you maintaining transcripts on your User page Samuel?
  • [12:02] Samuel Linden: I have not been
  • [12:02] Morgaine Dinova: KK, will ask others
  • [12:02] Clinton Oddfellow: One last note: Please make this autoplay control parcel level
  • [12:02] Clinton Oddfellow: NOT just estate.
  • [12:02] Jonathan Yap: I crashed, so don't have the chat session
  • [12:02] Clinton Oddfellow: Us mainland people want to be able to control it as well :P
  • [12:03] Larissa Vacano: yes thats what i am thinking too clinton
  • [12:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: And make sure webkit is recognized by antivirus programs, also.
  • [12:03] Clinton Oddfellow: We've been on the mainland since 2003. We're not about to move to an island any time soon :)
  • [12:04] Morgaine Dinova: Did anyone create a notecard of the half hour?