User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 Dec 18

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Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours:

Saijanai Kuhn: was just going to issue a call for all Groupies to wear there tags. Psycholigcal intimidation
Jason Swain: Hello Zero
Rex Cronon: especially when u see the body and clothes ok, but the eyes are gray
Saijanai Kuhn: ho, Hi Zero
Zha Ewry worries that one day, we will see an airplane fly in through the roof on "inbound zero"
Head Replacement: Hi zero
Neas Bade: hey zero
Zero Linden: Intimidation?
Zero Linden: Hello all
Jarod Godel: I worry that Zero devides himself too much
Zha Ewry: Afternoon, Zero.
Penumbro Eclipse: hello
Rex Cronon: hi zero
Jurin Juran: wb gigs
Zero Linden: Indeed - I do out of necessity
Gigs Taggart: thanks
Saijanai Kuhn: intervention time for Linden Labs...
Head Replacement: Zero, why is it that sometimes you need to wait x minutes before you can login again? My poor alt Tao is waiting in that queue :-)
Penumbro Eclipse: I guess that means you are undefined!
Bounced Offcourse says nothing.. on that topic..
Penumbro Eclipse tries fervently to divide by zero, but fails!
Zero Linden: I have people managerial responsibility, I assist the exec. staff on strategy development, I work with non-dev. parts of the company on developing products, I work inside dev. on architecture
Zero Linden: AND - I work with you!
Zha Ewry grins
Head Replacement: thisi actually might be the topic today ;-)
Zha Ewry: So.. can we get the RC and Windlight clients fixed to support login to OpenSim again :_)
Saijanai Kuhn: Show and tell time, Zero. Got a python bot almost working
Zero Linden: There is a fair bit of interlock in the system to ensure that you don't log in while another region thinks you are still in world
Zero Linden: being in twice would break many many things
sculpt test: BlŒ bŠr rššda
Zero Linden: Alas, writing out attachements is a significant burden when you log out
Saijanai Kuhn: That poor ruthed clone of me is a python script
Head Replacement: ic
Saijanai Kuhn: pure python no libsl
Bounced Offcourse: hehe, then .. when you eventually did get logged out.. it might log your new login out too :P
Zero Linden: Sometimes, the presence entry gets stuck -
Head Replacement: now at least I know why it happens, it's still sometimes annoying and Head has to go to all those office hours instead of Tao ;-)
Zero Linden: consider what happens if the region you are logging out from crashes
Zero Linden: or worse, hangs for a while
Seifert Surface: wouldnt it be nice if the timeout was related to how much attachments data there actually is, rather than a default 5 minutes or so...
Head Replacement: actually it wouldn't happen if the viewer wouldn't crash ;-)
Zha Ewry: Hangs is *much* worse
Zero Linden: while the system is waiting to see if the hung process comes back to life (of course we'd rather not kill it)
Saijanai Kuhn: Zero, right now this bot is getting 1900 packets while the server waits for the last login step
Seifert Surface: then people would realise perhaps how much data theyre carrying around
Zero Linden: if you were in the middle of being logged off... well, the system just has to wait before letting you back in
Head Replacement will try to crash earlier before office hours then ;-)
Zero Linden: One project that has been on hold for ages would enable detection of when attachement data could be just re-written, or even better yet, not written at all
Stipe Gorbunov: hay
Zero Linden: we've talked about a call that script could make that would signal - "I have no crucial state" - which would
Zero Linden: mean that that script needn't be written out on logout - we'd just drop it
Zero Linden: when you log in, you'd get the last state
Zero Linden: again
Zero Linden: for most things like HUDs and AOs, this is just fine
Zero Linden: All - welcome to my office hours
Zero Linden: as always - transcript -> wiki => speak = open
Head Replacement: I wonder how much we need to know about that when it comes to region domain etc. :-)
Penumbro Eclipse: This is very, very interesting, but RL beckons. Thanks all!
Head Replacement: cya Penumbro
Bounced Offcourse: What's the relationship between estates and regions? :D
Rex Cronon: bye penumbro
Zero Linden: Bit of scheduling: Today and Thursday are the last office hours
Zero Linden: until January
Jarod Godel: awww
Head Replacement: I nearly guessed that much ;-)
Bounced Offcourse: ooh. okay
Zero Linden: specifically January 8th
Zero Linden: I'll be out for two weeks
Harleen Gretzky: An esate i a group of region(s)
Zero Linden: Actually - I'm not going anywhere: vacation at home - the best kind ---
Jarod Godel: First Christmas with a kid?
Head Replacement: I wish I would have 2 weeks at home...
Zero Linden: if you see my alt in world - feel free to say hello - but I won't be talkin' shop!
Saijanai Kuhn: spring cleaning in the mdidle of winter
Zha Ewry nods
Saijanai Kuhn: Go Go Igo!
Zha Ewry: Grab your alt and play some Go
Zero Linden: Jarod - no - my son is 6 and we had a foster kid before him - so experienced in "it is all unwrapped by 5am"
Zha Ewry grins
Bounced Offcourse: hehe, isn't it that way everywhere?
Zero Linden: So now, estates? regions? was there a question there?
Bounced Offcourse: Well.. how would you describe an estate
Zha Ewry: You shoiuld have had a few years of "You can't come out of the bedroom until *THIS* number is bigger than 6"
Head Replacement: actually I think some of us would like to talk about collaboration and documentation
Head Replacement: and how AWG goes on
Saijanai Kuhn picks his head up from restling with UDP packets
Bounced Offcourse leaves it up to the group to decide :D
Zha Ewry: And. Yes. Collaboration, and.. in particular, documentation and stable interface points, or the lack of the same
Head Replacement: and what the process is or could be
Saijanai Kuhn: or is supposed to be but isn't
Head Replacement: main problem is I think that we all are trying to figure out a) how things work today and b) how they migth then work tomorrow. Example these days is login
Saijanai Kuhn: ...and why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings.
Saijanai Kuhn: and estalbishing presence
Zero Linden: well, in SL pigs DO have wings, and the sea is boiling hot because it is very compute intensive to render
Saijanai Kuhn: pointing to bot that gets 1900 packets while the server waits for last message to establish presence
Rex Cronon: forget the pigs, login more interesting
Zha Ewry: And in particular, wha's the intended behairo of the region simulators on login, what actually happens, and what's the path forward to even bgin to talk coherently
Head Replacement: and at least I personally feel that being able to ask questions 2 times a week is not really sufficient to go along. At least I don't see that much progress being made that way as in fact most things seems mostly known to Lindens
Zha Ewry: about how to break out the agent part of the region code
Jarod Godel: Zero, how many Brazillians must your ocean kill?
Zero Linden: Well-
Al Sonic thinks Jaron answered his own question.
Al Sonic: (typo on Jarod... not that it matters...)
Zero Linden: So I'll be brutally honest and say that indeed I agree with the assesment of how well things have gone to date
Jarod Godel: Al, I only slaughter words, not Brazilians. ;)
Zero Linden: I'm not set on any particular process or procedure - I see this sort of open community design to be a rather novel and new approach without many antecedants for me to point at
Saijanai Kuhn: Zero we want to help, but things can get very confusing...
Zero Linden: So, here are my thoughts - please take them as thoughts, not edicts, and recognize that now I'm speaking as one Linden, not all of Linden Lab
Zero Linden: One possible direction -
Head Replacement: It's also not to blame anybody of course it's just that it's hard to move somewhere if not totally doing some stuff out of the blue.
Zero Linden: Assuming I can muster several engineering resources internally to do this, we could have say two Lindens
Zero Linden: authoring proposed protocols, accepting input from you all, and modifying them as needed
Zero Linden: while, say, both a small group of Lindens implements this on a dev grid
Saijanai Kuhn: Zero, taking a step back. We need help understanding what goes on NOW before we can help design something new
Zero Linden: while, at the same time, one or more groups here (OpenSim and LibSL, say)
Zero Linden: implement them externally
Zha Ewry: That.. becomes.. anything but an open process
Zha Ewry: At the moment, we're getting a lot of pushback from OpenSim (with good reason)
Rex Cronon: almost anybody should be able to implement the network protocols if their description is available
Zha Ewry: about th new authetnication process, because it's gone that way
Zha Ewry: And.. in fact
Neas Bade: yeh, it would be reallly good to get some details on newauth out there, as well as the loginuri (or equiv) back in
Zha Ewry: the way it went was people pushed back hard on some details
Zha Ewry: and linden, so far, has responded to most of that feedback by
Zha Ewry: saying "Trust us"
Jarod Godel: Isn't that SL's motto for developer relations? (not to be glib...)
Zero Linden: Let's be fair about some things here
Head Replacement: for a start I'd like to have some Linden on IRC sometimes to be able to ask questions here and then.. like about login
Zero Linden: Linden Lab is busy trying to do two things
Zero Linden: 1) Run an existing virtual world
Zero Linden: 2) Transition to an open metaverse approach
Zero Linden: No matter how much we are committed to working on that second thing, the first is still there and will have to proceed
Saijanai Kuhn: sure, and has to be your top priority...
Zero Linden: There are 100 people or so in engineering, and at this time 99 of them are working on the current system
Saijanai Kuhn: BUT...
Zha Ewry nods "Nobody is expectign otherwise"
Zha Ewry: Going out of business, is a bad plan for the open metaverse.
Neas Bade: Zero, no arguments there. The new auth issue ends up being quite a bit of a show stopper on the OpenSim front, as all the new clients can't be made to work with OpenSim
Jarod Godel: Agree with Zha here.
Zero Linden: AND - that current system is going to change without perfect input, or at times even any input, from the outside
Rob Linden: hi all (was double booked today)
Saijanai Kuhn: hey Rob
Rex Cronon: hi rob
Zero Linden: Not that we would like to have no input, but it is going to happen
Malburns Writer: Hi Rob
Zha Ewry: Afternoon Rob
Saijanai Kuhn take a drink
Head Replacement: I think we are more talking about the output in terms of docs at least after the change ;-)
Bounced Offcourse: Greetings Rob
Zero Linden: The current system is, as all of you know, VERY squirlley and not really a good candidate for standardization
Head Replacement: Hi Rob!
Zero Linden: that LibSL and OpenSim work with it is a MAJOR testiment to those engineers talents
Neas Bade: So any ability to get OpenSim collaboration gets flushed pretty quickly if the client is no longer common ground
Saijanai Kuhn admires packets flying by his screen. Yeah, squirreling (no offense Ms Wood)
Zha Ewry nods "Tho, note, in this case, plenty of input was given, and some assurances of its being taken were given"
Jarod Godel: Zero, is there a reason you guys even ask for input? Not to be snide (I hope I don't sound that way) but I've nver seen Flickr or anyone ask "How do we fixup our API for you?" Would SL's open-ness go faster without the community nagging the engineers?
Saijanai Kuhn: Jarod: OPensource, Open Standards
Head Replacement: I think it's a good sign they ask for input, I'd also like flickr to do this ;-)
Neas Bade: not looking for perfect standards here, just enough enough to keep OpenSim interoperable.
Zero Linden: We ask for input because we really do care - and we really do believe that what the community does with our tool is important
Head Replacement: and in fact flickr of course receives feedback regarding their API
Harleen Gretzky: Why can't OpenSim support the new auth?
Neas Bade: I'm speaking about the very specific instance of new auth, not really anything broader at this point
Head Replacement: and in fact people work together with flickr to e.g. do things with them like OAuth
Head Replacement: but back to SL :)
Saijanai Kuhn: Neas, di you see the script Tao worked up?
Rex Cronon: aren't there lots of programmers in the community, jarod?
Bounced Offcourse: It can.. however, They're asking for more documentation on it.
Neas Bade: Harleen, 1) it isn't documented. 2) the Client has secondlife.com hard coded for login
Bounced Offcourse: .. to be able to implement it.
Jarod Godel: Rex, in the SL community or Flickr?
Head Replacement: I think the main problem is not my script here. libsl people know how to login
Head Replacement: the problem is simply that clients cannot be directed to some different login page if I understand this right
Zero Linden: I belive there is infact a command line option for that
Zha Ewry the other problem is one of sheer communication
Rex Cronon: sl
Zha Ewry: There is in fact not, one yet
Zero Linden: if there isn't i know that internal group has planned for it
Zha Ewry: And. there have been repeated discussions on this
Rob Linden: we're all going to get better at collaborating over time. if you take these first awkward steps as a sign of how it's always going to be, then you'll get pretty depressed :)
Saijanai Kuhn:
in case anyone wonders how the new login works
Neas Bade: yeh, we could get around 1 as there has been some work on libsl.
Head Replacement: I think the opensim thing is one issue, the documentation issue is another one
Neas Bade: zero: it doesn't work in either of the RCs for sure
Jarod Godel: Rex, sure! I'm just throwing out a question. I love SL+community, but I was curious if it was the best option. Zero seems to say it is, so...
Head Replacement: like we might need to understand what actually happens between client and server today in order to not miss any important things
Head Replacement: so it's either docs we need or somebody to ask and we can write it down
Head Replacement: (a faster wiki would help though ;-) )
Saijanai Kuhn: bu t reverse engineering is fun
Saijanai Kuhn: !!!
Head Replacement: yes, if you have lots of time
Zha Ewry looks at Saij funny
Zha Ewry: We all really do want to make this work
Jarod Godel: and a razor blade and the original developer
Neas Bade: so until there is a client drop that supports something equivalent to loginuri, there is some definite frustration, as there is no use in working out the bits of new auth and integrating them
Rob Linden: this may seem like a tangent, but it's not entirely:
Zero Linden: Okay - I'm going to go back to the team and talk with them about communication. I will try to get them to engague more
Rex Cronon: i wasn't comming down on u jarod, i just want to make sure what u mean:)
Head Replacement: like I said, I would like IRC best as I am not constantly in SL, I am not sure about Lindens or others here
Zha Ewry: Chuckle.
Zha Ewry: Doesn't look like a tangent to me
Zero Linden: Well - at this time LL cannot afford an engineer to sit in IRC all day
Head Replacement: some sort of sprint would of course also be nice
Jarod Godel: Rex, that's cool. I've found myself taking the opposite tack than i usually do a couple of times today...so, no worries.
Zero Linden: It is an excellent idea
Head Replacement: well, does not need to be all day
Zero Linden: And I think we should have support engineers of that sort
Head Replacement: but maybe more than 2 hours a week which are usually also filled with other stuff
Jarod Godel: Zero, what about Twitter?
Zero Linden: Well, Head - I'm pretty sure it would be a full time job - even if it is only 1/2 time in IRC - the other 1/2 time is going to be being sure they are up on the technology
Head Replacement: not sure twitter really is suited for that..
Jarod Godel: at least have engineer chat logs post there?
Head Replacement: but once we are up with technology we can help :)
Saijanai Kuhn: and it would be a good way to provide feedback when we try to apply existing docs (such as the y are) and they don't work, or do something flakey
Rob Linden: a number of us are on irc.efnet.org #opensl quite a bit
Head Replacement: or some other channel, does not need to be IRC
Head Replacement: like we maybe could use the mailing list ;-)
Zero Linden: I think, no matter what the channel, the issue is that you are asking for a resource to be your technical liason
Zero Linden: it is a completely reasonable request
Head Replacement: and then I also wonder how we go from here.. I have my basic login sitting here but I am not sure what to do with it now. How do we write this down would be one question
Zero Linden: In fact, I think I'm going to present this as something LL MUST do in the coming months
Saijanai Kuhn: and how to test it, etc
Zha Ewry: Well, its the intersection etween being able to read code, which often
Neas Bade: Rob, fwiw, we moved the #opensim* channels to freenode over the weekend, as we found a lot of host blocking on efnet
Zha Ewry: reads as "We hacked on the client until it worked"
Neas Bade: wasn't sure if you found us again yet
Daaneth Kivioq: more communications is a good thing - especially any method for use to communicate to you lindens about pressing issues
Zha Ewry: and being able to konw what is intended
Saijanai Kuhn: I've got my login almost working and I noticed a strange pathology when teh avatar isn't responding as the server obviously expects. Who do I tell about that?
Head Replacement: so I might try #opensl and #libsl more again maybe
Gigs Taggart: kelly's on opensl a lot but he stays pretty busy
Head Replacement: but of course at some point somebody who knows what the AWG needs might be good then
Wyn Galbraith: Does anyone know how to set up IRC in Trillian?
Head Replacement: well, I talked to Lindens in there but I wasn't always sure how busy they are and if I take their precious time away
Jarod Godel: At the risk of being dense, let's try to remember that getting this engineering liason likely means losing an active engineer.
Jarod Godel: Is that a trade-off that's going to help?
Head Replacement: of course it's always a resource problem
Zero Linden: Yes, it does
Zha Ewry: Well, the trade off, is getting the OpenSim, and the openSource
Zha Ewry: community engaged
Rob Linden: Jarod: precisely....some of these things are zero sum, unfortunately
Head Replacement: but I think LL is crucial here and if there are no resources for AWG then I don't see much future in an open project
Jarod Godel: I like docs as much as anyone (and examples!), but I'd rather SL get a protocol that was working and stable first
Saijanai Kuhn: and getting AWGroupies up to speed on understanding things
Saijanai Kuhn: cart before the horse, Jarod
Daaneth Kivioq: and kill fricking voice!
Head Replacement: Jarod: but then only LL can do that protocol
Head Replacement: and then we are again at this resource problem as somebody still has to write it down
Saijanai Kuhn: and if they can't document, is it really a protocol?
Rob Linden: one thing that doesn't have direct costs is working more transparently, and that's something that we'll be trying to get peopel to do more
Jarod Godel: if they get it working, then they'll have time to document it
Zero Linden: Actualy, voice is done primarily by an outside company- it takes very little engineering resources, and only microscopic server resources on our side
Head Replacement: indeed, if e.g. more discussions would be done more openly it would maybe also help
Saijanai Kuhn: no, protocols have to be documented first or its never a protocol
Neas Bade: jarod: you obviously have never worked in teh software industry :)
Daaneth Kivioq: then why does voice seem to cause so many problems?
Jarod Godel: Neas, only the software side of education
Zha Ewry: Not clear that it gets you an open one, Jarod, nor does it let OpenSim and LibSL.. and other players actually prove that it is a prortocol, not a set of softwar hwich happens to work otgether
Head Replacement: well, once it's coded there is little chance of docs ;-)
Neas Bade agrees with Head
Head Replacement: and should they do that I think opensim and maybe AWGroupies might go another route in the meanwhile
Zha Ewry: Right now, SL doesn't really have a protocol, since they control both ends of the pipe, and can (and looking at the code do, tweak them somehwat at random
Head Replacement: well, maybe ;-)
Jarod Godel: Oh, wait. You mean code documentation! I thought you meant protocol documentation.
Jarod Godel: you're talking about /* comments */
Zha Ewry: They are, one and th4e same Jarod
Neas Bade: protocol documentation as well.
Zha Ewry: No, we're not talking about comments
Saijanai Kuhn: code can change but the protocol has to stay the same
Zha Ewry: A protocol, acutally needs a spec
Saijanai Kuhn: or be documented as changing
Head Replacement: well, at least for now it would help I think to understand login more
Daaneth Kivioq: or the new protocol has to be backwards compatible
Zha Ewry: One of the problems with "Read the code" for protocols
Zha Ewry: is that it doesn't dfefine the prototocl, i defines one possible prtocol, at the moemnt the code was written
Zha Ewry: And. in fact, worse, "As the engineeers managed to make it work"
Head Replacement: but in the end we of course need some closer collaboration because right now it does not fell that much like it. I am not sure though how this could look like
Rex Cronon: the protocol can have an optional extension that makes it backwards comptible
Jarod Godel: I guess I was thinking of it backwards.
Saijanai Kuhn: an example is that the seedcap (from what I understand from John Hurliman) has many caps available through it but in every case there is a UDP packet that does the same thing except TP
Head Replacement: I also wonder how the state of AWG at Linden Lab internally is
Head Replacement: is there work being done? discussions? planning?
Saijanai Kuhn: I can find the docs for teh UDP on the wiki though theyre not always accurate. There's NOTHING I can find on teh CAPS version. I didn't even know there were two versions
Zha Ewry: Well, Which and Co. are banging awayon c=http, and esroew
Head Replacement: I guess this UDP thing is historically because in the beginning there only was UDP ;-)
Daaneth Kivioq: the only caveat with extending a protocol, is that it can become cumbersome, and at some point you end up wanting to cut out the old stuff and force a migration
Zha Ewry: And.. if the rest of LL could doucment and be as transparent as which is.. there wouuld be a lot less complinaing
Saijanai Kuhn: thats what CAPS and the AWG are all about, Daaneth
Head Replacement: actually what Which etc. do seems to be quite open to me but I am not that much into the topic at the moment
Head Replacement: but status updates etc. are good to have and the commit-list is also helpful
Head Replacement: but I also understand that this is maybe not working for the LL server code
Head Replacement: but as said, I think a sprint would be great.. have a 1-2 day meeting, work on some code or ideas together and after that people will better understand what can be done
Jarod Godel: in-world flash conference?
Head Replacement: so come all to the SnowSprint in January ;-)
Head Replacement: well, not sure how to do it practically, i mostly was involved in RL sprints up to now
Head Replacement: (which have the additional socializing aspect)
CSI:NY Toolbar: Script run-time error
CSI:NY Toolbar: Stack-Heap Collision
Neas Bade: well, instead of trying to solve the grander issues here, I would try to focus on a specific instance like new auth. Making the loginuri a priority on the client so that the community can start playing with new auth implementations, and an hour of someones time to sketch out what is there on a wiki would be really helpful
Daaneth Kivioq: (LOL)
Jason Swain: lol
Head Replacement: yep, I also don't think that explaining login can be that much work
Zha Ewry: That.. and.. a discussion, on what is supposed to happen, one UDP packet into login, would be excellent firsts teps
Head Replacement: and what's important in that login process etc.
Rex Cronon: whoever has the csi thing, u need to get a new copy, your is broken, due to blitz(most likely)
Zero Linden: Zha - do you mean what currently happens?
Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, and what is supposed to happen if a mistake is made
Saijanai Kuhn: I'm not joking, Zero, about the client getting 1900 packets
Zero Linden: Okay - Concerns heard by me loud and clear. I agree with vast majority of what you are all asking for.
Head Replacement: a good idea for AWG is maybe to write down a usecase with all the exceptions
Head Replacement: but for this it also might be useful to know what's happening today
Daaneth Kivioq: Ideally, it should be a black box in the end
Zero Linden: I will take this to the larger organization immediatly. I will lobby for more....
Head Replacement: great
Wyn Galbraith: Thank you Zero.
Rex Cronon: yes. black boxes are nice
Neas Bade: awesome, thanks zero
Zero Linden: ...but I also caution you --- it isn't likely that most of LL engineering is going to suddenly start documenting
Zero Linden: like Which does
Zha Ewry: Right now,what seems to happen aftert the first packet
Zha Ewry: in login 9the first UDP packet up)
Zha Ewry: is a flood of packets down
Zha Ewry: Some of which clearly need to be acked
Head Replacement: tell them if they don't document then they need to spend their time in IRC and answer questions all day long ;)
Zha Ewry: But.. it's almost impossible to determine what's needed first, and
Zha Ewry: The trace logs are different than they were a few months back
Zha Ewry: But.. why.. isn't at all clear
Daaneth Kivioq: unless the packet gets shot down by Ack-Ack
Zha Ewry: One expects that there is some off
Saijanai Kuhn: Message # 1968 Flags: 0x40 ('LayerData', 'Trusted', 'Unencoded') sequence # (1303,) Message # 1969 Flags: 0x00 ('CoarseLocationUpdate', 'Trusted', 'Unencoded') sequence # (1304,) Message # 1970 Flags: 0x60 ('EnableSimulator', 'Trusted', 'Unencoded') sequence # (918,)
Zha Ewry: *odd
Head Replacement: maybe we can also come up with some process where we can discuss the details in chunks like small milestones
Zero Linden: I'm going to admit that the current set of protocols do not have clear documentation even internally
Saijanai Kuhn: that bot I had here when you arrived got those back
Zha Ewry: combinatoin of "what should happen" and "wha does happen" going on
Daaneth Kivioq: That way lies madness, Zero
Head Replacement: so we might have some initial meeting with Linden involvement to get details clear about one component
Saijanai Kuhn: 1970 of them
Neas Bade: zero, honestly, when we talk about documentation it's more like the kind of sketch that will save us a day from figuring it out ourselves. It doesn't have to be super robust
Head Replacement: and get clear what the next goal is.. for now the goal for Q4 was login via legacy-login caps if I remember that right
Saijanai Kuhn: obviously I goofed but how, and why the spam?
Rob Linden: speaking of madness, I've booked for meetings all day today. next.....
Zero Linden: So I have only limited hope for the existing protocols - my hope is to muster enough troops, internall and external, to get to new protocols that are well defined
Head Replacement: cya Rob
Zero Linden: Alas, I have a two oclock too
Zha Ewry nods at Zero
Zero Linden: So I'm out of here, sigh
Daaneth Kivioq: we could always port the code to FORTRAN (:-)
Zha Ewry: We're eager to help
Neas Bade: thanks zero
Rex Cronon: that looks like a big blob broken in parts, sai
Zha Ewry: But.. We do need to
Jason Swain: Thank you Zero
Zha Ewry: Be able to
Jarod Godel: later, Rob
Zha Ewry: get the door open
Zha Ewry: Thanks Zero
Gigs Taggart: me too, later
Zha Ewry: And Rob
Head Replacement: thanks Zero :-)
Zero Linden: I promise I'm going to bring this feedback to all of engineering - I'm going to be your voice in getting more involvement
Rex Cronon: bye rob
Malburns Writer: Bye Rob
Malburns Writer: Thanks Zero
Saijanai Kuhn: thanks Rob.
Saijanai Kuhn: Thanks Zero
Zero Linden: See you Thursday
Daaneth Kivioq: Thanks ero
Daaneth Kivioq: Zero
Rex Cronon: bye zero