Web User Group/Transcripts/2023.12.06
WEB USER GROUP MEETING
6 December 2023
Chat
Sntax Linden: Hello!
Sntax Linden: whispers: agenda for today:
Sasy Scarborough: hi :)
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, frit.
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Sntax.
Sasy Scarborough: * to those that may be new here this meeting is held in voice and text not always voice, but it could happen"
Sntax Linden: We are going to do text for upcoming updates and some questions I have for the group. Then I am going to open up the floor for any topics or suggestions via voice or text.
Sasy Scarborough: cool bans
Sasy Scarborough: beans
Sntax Linden: updates: We are adding filters to the new linden home store and toast notifications. Which should be available before the next time we meet.
Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you for your kindness, Sntax.
Sntax Linden: As I'm sure a lot of people know but PBR is officially released and we have been discussing how we are going to help support creators on the marketplace and on the web.
Sntax Linden: questions I have: Do you have any plans for making PBR items such as clothes soon? How do you plan on sharing them with others? Are you planning on selling them on the MP? If so, what are some changes to the marketplace you would like to see to help better enable that?
Darkover Tone: (i was so excited about PBR, but tbh the environments all look a bit bleh, like overcast and making me sad)
Sasy Scarborough: very clear icons that represent PBR but also give us options to check box if something is mesh, something is system layer Bakes on Mesh/Bom etc so that its not just words but perhaps symbols
Garfield Linden: @darkover You should bring that up at the content creator user group, mayhap. Myself, I make sure to always keep "Use Shared Environment" ticked so I can see region/parcel owners' custom EEP environments, which I usually find much nicer/more fantastical than the defaults..
Sasy Scarborough: not nicer at the moment, because most do not know what they are doing
Sasy Scarborough: or how their previous lighting now differs
Darkover Tone: yeh those are mostly borked now imo, i'm getting seasonal disorder in sl now lol - been missing the other meetings sadly
Sasy Scarborough: because most dont actually understand that pbr is more than latex and shiny prims
Garfield Linden: a pall has been cast over the grid..
Darkover Tone: not great shots, but here non PBR https://gyazo.com/158b079dd1a2487c881e723116b37e99
Darkover Tone: same env with PBR viewer https://gyazo.com/f8d53d60879a29db3ee2b678475aea37
Sasy Scarborough: it would be really nice if people understood that pbr reflections are not mirrors
Darkover Tone: serious pall lol
Ifrit Skytower: i've been still figuring out how to approach releasing PBR products since it's still a bit rough around the edges, but a clear product category distinction in the same way a product can currently either be non-mesh, partial mesh or 100% mesh is needed for Diffuse, Blinn-Phong (pre-PBR materials) and Physically Based Rendering
Garfield Linden: I know that the viewer team is making lots of fixes in their new post-launch PBR fixup build, so if folks make their voices heard at the content creator user group, they'd be more aware that it's an issue for folks
Sasy Scarborough: i think that the check boxes addition would be good, but i would really like to see symbols appear on the pages
Wulfie Reanimator: Or even make a forum thread so others can link it during the meeting.
Ifrit Skytower: we'd also need search filters for these on the marketplace
Sasy Scarborough: something big enough to see at a glance this item is Mesh, has pbr and baked lighting options and is rigged to bodies etc
Sntax Linden: So on the product page a badge/icon that shows the item is PBR.
Sasy Scarborough: right
Darkover Tone: sorry on topic, i see a lot of creators making PBR items already, and would expect any who do have a MP store to sell them on there
Sasy Scarborough: but do a badge for each part so they appear
Sasy Scarborough: like clothing labels that show do not iron machine washable is ok etc lol
Darkover Tone: badge should be visible in search results too, and of course a way to filter for it
Sasy Scarborough: then the icons might work as search filters too
Sasy Scarborough: right
Sasy Scarborough: that
Sasy Scarborough: because currently some poor store is called PBR and is just filling in with other pbr listed stuff
Ifrit Skytower: yes, being able to filter them is important
Sntax Linden: I think indicate if the item is mesh on the product page right?
Darkover Tone: that too
Ifrit Skytower: yes, but you can't filter your search for mesh only products
Sasy Scarborough: directly under the product picture before the information would be good
Sntax Linden: ah ok
Ifrit Skytower: it only lists it on an individual products page
Sntax Linden: would a PBR catergory be good?
Garfield Linden: mesh+rigged+baked lighting+pbr all seem like rather good checkmarks/filters to introduce to mplace
Sasy Scarborough: agreed
Darkover Tone: there should be options to check for mesh/prim/sculptie etc, and same for materials used, with the corresponding filter options for that
Wulfie Reanimator: If a PBR category was added, I think it should be for PBR materials *only*, instead of any products with PBR on them.
Darkover Tone: and since there are mixed items, they need to be multiple option check bboxes
Sasy Scarborough: anything old and not updated wont have the categories but its a start to help better understand
Darkover Tone: PBR materials only, in addition to products with PBR!
Darkover Tone: so peeps can search for just materials to use?
Sasy Scarborough: yeah a clear distinction on that would also help
Garfield Linden: explain it like I'm five, legacy.name - I'm not too wizardy in the ways of PBR+glTF
Sasy Scarborough: you will have people buying a material thinking its whatever they showed using it
Sntax Linden: Putting on our creative hat, What would be a good visual indicator that something is PBR?
Garfield Linden: up til now, I assumed a PBR-enabled item would also have PBR materials
Sasy Scarborough: PBR with a frame around it
Sasy Scarborough: that would be all it needs
Wulfie Reanimator: Marketplace has a category "Building and Object components > Textures" and I'm suggesting we add "Building and Object components > PBR Materials"
Sntax Linden: it could just say the letters but would interested in an icon (probably not a mirror haha)
Darkover Tone: lol
Darkover Tone: but is so shineyyy
Butch Daddy: A PBR Material category like Mesh Creator Tool, or the Textures category. and then a spot to put if the item si PBR like you can for Mesh items.. and then a way to actually search ONLY for Mesh or PBR items, like you can with Copy or Transfer items.
Garfield Linden: ooh, I see, Legacy. thank you.
Ifrit Skytower: what about diffuse: plywood sphere, blinn-phong: plastic sphere, PBR, metallic sphere
Garfield Linden: yes, we should have a checkmark for "PBR-enabled item" and also a separate category for things that are _literally_ PBR materials for sale
Sasy Scarborough: https://gyazo.com/986e6d0762c6e671ad64b4776e5c99d1 there you go lol
Sasy Scarborough: im not sure the spheres idea would translate on the page as an icon very well
Sntax Linden: I always wonder if PBR is a term that most people use or if it is something we just say internally at the lab
Sasy Scarborough: it is what people are using
Butch Daddy: Professional Bull Riders LOL
Sasy Scarborough: rare to see GLTF
Sntax Linden: I didn't know about the technical term diffuse but that makes sense
Sntax Linden: I was thinking the same about GLTF
Sasy Scarborough: people really only learned about diffuse once appliers became a thing
Wulfie Reanimator: PBR is a widespread term
Sasy Scarborough: yeah even those that do not know what it is are asking about it as PBR
Ifrit Skytower: i think it's the right one when there's no other shiny/bump textures involved, like it was in the pre-mesh days, davep could probably give you the correct terms to use though
Sasy Scarborough: so that part is not alien to people so far
Sasy Scarborough: but yes a distinction between this is PBR enabled vs this is a PBR material is a good call
Darkover Tone: PBR seems commonly used outside of SL too
Darkover Tone: well there's enabled and then there's actually having PBR too....
Sasy Scarborough: yes substance discord and reddit etc
Sasy Scarborough: say PBR
Ifrit Skytower: PBR is pretty common, i've seen a ton of games developers call it that when they talked about using it to graphically upgrade their game textures
Ifrit Skytower: in marketing material etc
Darkover Tone: enabled technically is slapping on the PBR "frame", but not necessarily have that filled with textures
Sasy Scarborough: i think the implementation of icons would also make flagging items that are big fat liar pants would be easier too
Sasy Scarborough: its one thing to smuggle in a keyword
Sasy Scarborough: but to actually check on a checkbox and outright lie that something is something it is not is harder to get out of
Wulfie Reanimator: Oh, that reminds me of something kinda unrelated. Is there any chance for product keywords being made visible somewhere on the product page?
Garfield Linden: I think it could be wise to represent PBR-enabled items with wording like "Enhanced Realism" or "Enhanced Graphics" or similar - and when the checkmark is moused over, a tooltip mentions PBR and explains it
Sasy Scarborough: also a good call, i do the page inspect to find what they used if it makes no sense what i found
Garfield Linden: what do people think?
Darkover Tone: ah yeah, good idea - i too often see results that make zero sense, unless someone cheated or borked on keywords
Garfield Linden: PBR *is* common, but mainly among creators
Ifrit Skytower: we need the material equivalent of this in the product listing https://i.imgur.com/sHZB7Pr.png
Darkover Tone: hmm
Sasy Scarborough: its not only common amongst creators Garfield
Sntax Linden: does anyone have any other concerns for how PBR is used on the MP?
Sasy Scarborough: it is also very common amongst gamers
Darkover Tone: idk Garfield, i mean maybe in addition, but it should clearly state PBR as everything and everyone talks about PBR
Darkover Tone: they don't talke about Enhanced this or that
Garfield Linden: perhaps PBR-Enhanced Realism, or PBR-Enhanced Graphics
Sasy Scarborough: because honestly what you said should be the option makes no sense to the average person
Darkover Tone: so that would make it more confusing
Sasy Scarborough: still no
Garfield Linden: hehe
Nya Blackwood: regular people probably also had never heard the term "mesh" before and everyone got used to it
Darkover Tone: the mouse over could have the Enhanced info!
Sasy Scarborough: PBR or PBR Materials is enough
Darkover Tone: but if you add it to the PBR term now, it will make peeps confused
Garfield Linden: just a thought! thank you
Garfield Linden: I think I agree
Darkover Tone: they'll wonder what the difference is between PBR and PBR Enhanced lol
Sasy Scarborough: i like the idea of the more info so that the more detailed explanation is there
Sasy Scarborough: but again to mouseover you need some kind of icon
Garfield Linden: mhm
Sasy Scarborough: so icons under the picture for all things would be awesome
Sasy Scarborough: because of all the mods that are also made
Darkover Tone: mouseover stating that it provides enhanced Realism would be cool
Sntax Linden: Maybe everyone will just list as PBR Enhanced since it sounds cooler haha
Garfield Linden: we have a great designer these days for nifty icons and such
Sasy Scarborough: things like the base mesh type vs the applier used for said mesh etc so much easier
Darkover Tone: oo yes! the corresponding icons could be the mouseover target for the additional info
Sasy Scarborough: id seriously sit down and work out all icons needed for all things
Sasy Scarborough: because this would be a huge want for content creators and customers alike
Garfield Linden: we've got some tooltips goin for the icons on https://secondlife.com/land/lindenhomes, so it would be something similar I'm sure
Sasy Scarborough: for those with translation needs etc icons could be better
Sntax Linden: what additional info would you want to call out on mouse over?
Darkover Tone: The Enhanced Graphics maybe as Garfield mentioned, plus, there could be a link to the SL community/wiki page for PBR
Sasy Scarborough: as Garfield suggested the PBR icon could say that this item uses physical based rendering to give more realism etc
Darkover Tone: same with other things like what is mesh?....this would be great specifically for new users, and those who are kinda stuck in the past maybe kinda lol
Sasy Scarborough: and the PBR materials one could say this is a material to be used on in world objects to achieve a pbr outcome etc
Sasy Scarborough: right it would also help those that have older system layers help people understand that Bakes on Mesh/Bom is not a separate thing
Sntax Linden: I actually didn't know about partial mesh until I was a linden for a few months
Sasy Scarborough: because there is still confusion there
Darkover Tone: or Materials only, these need to be applied to objects, similar to textures
Sasy Scarborough: right
Darkover Tone: yeh, peeps create in all kinds of ways
Sasy Scarborough: a HUD icon would be a great need too
Wulfie Reanimator: At the very least, hovering should spell out what the icon is for, just in case someone can't interpret the image. Basic accessibility stuff. :P
Darkover Tone: hehe definitely
Sasy Scarborough: so that people understand they are buying something that does something tech wise not that its a scene etc
Sasy Scarborough: the icons mouseover could even go to the wiki for more info ?
Darkover Tone: I think LL should require all employees to be in-world for a few hours a week, on the clock, as part of their work tasks.
Sasy Scarborough: so brief explanation and then a MORE link
Ifrit Skytower: would there only be one for PBR, or would there also be ones for the previous two material types?
Darkover Tone: should be for all the things
Sasy Scarborough: it should be a proper implementation of icons that cover all options of all things
Sasy Scarborough: it will just benefit with the new PBR thing
Darkover Tone: a large part of regular users have no idea what anything means, they just go and buy stuff they think looks good to them
Sasy Scarborough: and
Sasy Scarborough: drumrolll
Sasy Scarborough: SENRA should have its own Icon
Darkover Tone: ah yes
Sntax Linden: mesh, rigged, baked lighting, and pbr any I am missing?
Ifrit Skytower: if they linked to wiki pages with more information about the differences, that'd be awesome too
Sntax Linden: why for senra?
Sasy Scarborough: honestly no stepping but this should be one of the nda projects that you have a group work out all the needs and put it forth so that it gets looked at from every possibility
Darkover Tone: (and the avatar floater still should very very much not show the old avatars under the new avatar tab....still)
Sasy Scarborough: missing a lot
Sasy Scarborough: because Senra is your product now
Sasy Scarborough: your character creation
Sasy Scarborough: and no new residents even know what you put them in
Wulfie Reanimator: I imagine having an option specifically for Senra would help new users find things that will work for their first mesh avatar.
Sasy Scarborough: nor how to go about shopping for it
Sntax Linden: makes sense legacy
Sasy Scarborough: so Senra should be a category
Darkover Tone: hmm to be fair, that sounds like there then should be options for other bodies too? It would make finding things so much easier
Sasy Scarborough: also it gives the Lindens the chance to make sure people are abiding by the Senra kit etc
Sasy Scarborough: and not just throwing senra onto things
TreesBreeze: we should just have nya filter by body option
Darkover Tone: there might have to be an "other" kind of checkbbox for bodies not added to the listings yet (as temporary fix)
Ifrit Skytower: non-mesh, partial mesh, mesh, rigged mesh (animesh too?), diffuse (baked lighting), blinn-phong, PBR,
Sasy Scarborough: not all bodies, Senra is more than the body
Sasy Scarborough: but it could be mesh body needed icon
Sasy Scarborough: the category is there for mesh bodies and the link to what brand its just never gone live
Sasy Scarborough: its in the marketplace listing space
Sasy Scarborough: just doesnt do anything
Sasy Scarborough: HUDs is a category
Darkover Tone: So maybe Senra then should be under Avatars?
Wulfie Reanimator: Having a category for one mesh body could open a can of worms (or at least some annoyance), but I would imagine it's reasonable that LL's own thing has a category. Hard to call it favoritism if it's your own product.
Sasy Scarborough: Senra should be Senra
Sasy Scarborough: we have no idea what Senra is going to include in coming years, so it should just be its own thing
Sntax Linden: has anyone run into upset customers that items won't work with senra yet?
Sasy Scarborough: nope only good thing as in 'thank you for including senra' :)
Darkover Tone: i haven't seen places adding Senra tbh
Darkover Tone: except Sasy? :p
Darkover Tone: also haven't seen anyone mention it in the various clothing store groups, or other groups for skins etc
Sasy Scarborough: i was also asked to update a set of my polish to Senra that I hadn't yet, and i was so excited that i did so as soon as i logged on lol
Sasy Scarborough: AlaskaMetro has a Senra skin and has social media'd about it
Darkover Tone: i feel that outside of these groups here, and new users, Senra is very much of a non-thing for most people
Sntax Linden: lets say we redesign marketplace more around what body you have. What kinds of bodies would you want to see? Would you just want filters and categories? Maybe bodies are a style where items are based off that?
Sasy Scarborough: i dont want to see brands of bodies, because there are way more than people think there are
Sasy Scarborough: so it would end up a mesh
Sasy Scarborough: Mesh body needed is all the icon would need to have
Sasy Scarborough: mess*
Darkover Tone: That would be great for making it easier for people to find items, vs scrolling through dozens of horrible results, but if there were mesh body categories it would have to be for all th different makers and types
Sasy Scarborough: also then you have everyone that makes any kind of part to want their spotlight
Sasy Scarborough: so a basic mesh body compatible is enough IMO
Sasy Scarborough: because there are a lot of adult add ons too
Darkover Tone: but mesh body compatible is not very clear
Sasy Scarborough: oh and an adult icon would be good
Darkover Tone: since no mesh bodies are alike
Wulfie Reanimator: Mesh bodies could be categorized as "human, animal, monster, fantasy, etc." Categorizing by brand would probably not be a good idea unless you're really on-point with managing that on the fly.
Sasy Scarborough: its a subset, the body it caters to is in the information
TreesBreeze: the kind of body i'd want to see is whatever body i am shopping for clothes for ΦωΦ
Sasy Scarborough: there is no way that LL can keep updating to include every single body on the market
Nya Blackwood: when I search for clothes on the MP that fit my body, I include my body in the search and for me that seems to work reasonably well. I don't think I would have an advantage if I had an additional meshbody-brand filter
Garfield Linden: I've discussed ways to allow creators to classify Marketplace products by the mesh body that they support - I think the simplest way would be to introduce a tagging system, where creators could freely input the supported mesh body as a tag, selecting from a dropdown that shows how many other products currently have each tag applied. Creators could arbitrarily create new tags. Similarly, residents could select from a tag cloud of mesh bodies to filter their results. What do folks think?
Sasy Scarborough: so the tags would just keep adding to, so a typo happens new tag etc ?
Sntax Linden: speaking of search What *specific* issues have folks noticed with Relevance sort in Marketplace search? Such as Fuzzy search.
Garfield Linden: correct, Sasy
Sasy Scarborough: someone puts a space or just makes it a mess i mean have you seen how stores name bodies in their items
Wulfie Reanimator: I like that idea. I think tagging systems are great *if* you can also see how many times that tag has been used before.
Darkover Tone: anytime i search for Legacy Perky, i get tons of pages of stuff that is not compatible, so honestly, although it would be quite a bit of work initially, and also some updates needed, i think it would increase sales since it would make finding items so much easier and enjoyable
Sasy Scarborough: its a disgrace lol
TreesBreeze: nya
TreesBreeze: if tag system is added
TreesBreeze: when we enter nya body tag
TreesBreeze: it should show the count of other products tagged this
Garfield Linden: Sasy: creators would be able to see the most popular tags and select the correct one thusly
TreesBreeze: nyafter we select it
TreesBreeze: so we don't make that mistake
TreesBreeze: it will be obvious because if we make nya typo it will show 0
Garfield Linden: it would obviously be imperfect, but better than what we have today (creators populating their titles+descriptions with mesh body names)
Sasy Scarborough: you are cute Garfield :)
Darkover Tone: if search accounts for typos....
Sasy Scarborough: now get them to attach to not right hand
Garfield Linden: lol
Darkover Tone: lolol
Sasy Scarborough: because one of the answers i have had for changing is actually the list is too long
Sasy Scarborough: as in they are too lazy to look for chest or right foot etc
Garfield Linden: too many attach points?
Sasy Scarborough: i saw a store the other day that had Belleza X classic in a folder that called it X
Wulfie Reanimator: Sntax, about Relevance search, I've noticed that the results favor exact product names too much. For example, go to Marketplace right now and search for "bed" (no quotes needed). You'll find products that are named EXACTLY "bed"
Wulfie Reanimator: And if you open the most relevant product, and go to the Features tab, you'll see another exploit merchants use.
Darkover Tone: (not enough attachment points :p)
Sasy Scarborough: oh that reminds me too about that Sntax , I was searching Izzie's yesterday, it came up a different store, so i typed Izzie button it brought her up, but i checked Izzie and she came up but the other Izzie's store did not, so the 'part of name' is not working ?
Garfield Linden: (agree :D)
Sntax Linden: lets say we tweak the weights where product name isn't as favored. What kinds of things should be favored more? Amount of sales? Keywords? Maybe tags?
Garfield Linden: yes, Sasy, I've notized fuzzy search isn't working
Garfield Linden: so if the store is named Izzie but you search for Izzies, it won't show up
TreesBreeze: https://prnt.sc/k7-StnAe2EtF lol
TreesBreeze: that is pretty bad nya
Garfield Linden: have folks noticed anything besides that issue?
Sasy Scarborough: there are enough attachment points its that the attachment point option should be on upload and by default something WORN should not be right hand
Darkover Tone: yeah, it's a real issue and feels very archaic
Nya Blackwood: if amount of sales then maybe make more recent sales weigh more
Sntax Linden: What about store names? Would you prefer we show stores when searching in the product search?
Garfield Linden: whoa, hana, haha
Darkover Tone: lol
Garfield Linden: ah, I see, Sasy - definitely something to bring up at the Content Creator user group!
Butch Daddy: no. no store names in product searches. it used to be like that and merchants put shit keywords in their store names and it was just as bad as regular keyword spam
Sasy Scarborough: i would prefer it was how it used to be, never had an issue with finding anyone back then, now its harder
Darkover Tone: what if storenames were hard coded to be part of the item name? This just Bed (or whatever other term) is just super bad
Butch Daddy: because ALL of the sellers items would show up even if their items had nothing to do with the search
Sasy Scarborough: i have Garfield even made a jira :)
Sasy Scarborough: oh and that being said too Sntax the five star image use in store names needs to go
Sasy Scarborough: that is just blatant abuse
Darkover Tone: need a one-click report button for "this thing has nothing to do with my search term"
Sntax Linden: the 5 star emojis in product names and stores names is something we are looking at fixing
Nya Blackwood: \o/
Garfield Linden: @Butch - I've had the thought that introducing a single row of matching store results at the top/middle/bottom (somewhere) inline in product search could be a good compromise. A lot of new users don't notice the Merchants/Stores search tab.
Sasy Scarborough: good
Sntax Linden: in a broader sense do we like emojis at all in product names or store names?
Darkover Tone: Haha, there happens to be a store called something like 5 Stars, and apparently they got flagged- even though i don't think their name had anything to do with the rating system, just a bad choice of name lol
Sasy Scarborough: i did bring it up at a past meeting but not this one and one of the Lindens said they would look into it, so rude, i get marketing and playing a game, but that is just gross
Sntax Linden: its not like you can search by emoji
Sasy Scarborough: you can search by those stars though
Garfield Linden: @Darkover we'd love some reinforcement training for Marketplace search relevancy, at some point. Though giving users the explicit option to essentially "downvote" listings might be ripe for abuse
Darkover Tone: true, there would have to be a balance of how many clicks lead to a delisting, coupled with human review
Butch Daddy: @Garfield. There are stores out there that cram keywords into their store names.. so you end up with something like Bed in the "store name" and the user sells cars.. so when you look for a bed, you get all of that sellers items.. the entire store, if you search for any of the keywords they have crammed into their store names. and there is no way to report a store name for spam.. only a listing
Sasy Scarborough: if you search by copy pasting the row of stars all the guilty stores come up lol
Darkover Tone: but specifically for the keyword abuse, there is just SOOOO much of it - which makes it so that many residents don't want to use MP
Sasy Scarborough: personally i would like the lindens to do what they do with our names to Marketplace
Sasy Scarborough: if a store name already exists YOU CANNOT HAVE IT
Wulfie Reanimator: This may be a hot take but I would actually prefer if the store name had no effect on product search results. Many common search terms have stores that include that term, and the results get filled with all their irrelevant products. (Though including a separate "row" of individual stores would be fine.)
Darkover Tone: ^^
Garfield Linden: agreed, Butch - I don't think we have plans to allow store name to influence product search relevancy. But introducing an "interstitial" somewhere on the page that shows just stores that match your search might be a good option
Sasy Scarborough: right at the bottom
Ifrit Skytower: oh, before we run out of time, could we talk about how the contents section of the product page could be improved? currently it's only text and permissions and folder structure. but we now have inventory thumbnail support in SL, and i believe it would benefit greatly from displaying those in the contents subpage, as well as showing what type of asset it is (object, notecard, landmark etc)
Darkover Tone: Some listing of related stores below though seems like a good idea
Sasy Scarborough: this may also be of interest etcc
Sasy Scarborough: yes while on the icon train for marketplace give us better icons for inventory lol
Darkover Tone: (the whole listing functions needs some serious updates)
Sasy Scarborough: a yellow cube for all things all the time is crazy
Sntax Linden: I like that idea frit
Garfield Linden: ah, Legacy, I may not have realized that product search *does* currently take into account store name (I'm only just starting to become involved in the Marketplace platform after a long time spent on the new Linden Home store!)
Butch Daddy: yeah..maybe like the related items at the bottom of listings? maybe something at the bottom of the search return page showing related stores? that would be cool
Sasy Scarborough: a hud should not be a yellow cube
Darkover Tone: alsoooo .....still waiting for a buy now or separate shopping cart for gifting, really tired of having to empty my cart to send out a gift.....
TreesBreeze: nya.. i'm gonna show my technical literacy here but what nyabout using nya term vector database nyand everything within a certain distance gets the same relevancy... beyond that, sales could be used to then sort the most relevent of those
Darkover Tone: while a separate cart is a bigger undertaking, i don't get why there's still no buy now for gifting....ESPECIALLY going into the holiday season?
TreesBreeze: so like if two words nya highly related to each other they get the same 'weight'
Darkover Tone: good idea too
Ifrit Skytower: a yellow cube would still be a better indicator than having no idea what kind of assets in the contents actually are
Darkover Tone: but then also have the option still to sort by relevance, new, price, etc
Sntax Linden: easier gifting is something I would like to do
Darkover Tone: (General theme: soo much needs to be fixed/updated) :D
Sasy Scarborough: i dont mind cubes but even a different colour per or give us the option to colourcode things ourselves
Darkover Tone: Sntax, do you think adding a buy now is a time consuming process?
Ifrit Skytower: also, the contents page does not match the sort order of the merchant outbox
Butch Daddy: why not change the Add to Cart as a Gift to a Buy now as a Gift and just kick up the same enter someone's name field instead of making us put the item into the cart to buy from there?
Sntax Linden: you mean would it be hard for us to make?
Ifrit Skytower: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925457226162909274/1178804240366448720/image.png
Darkover Tone: could we not get that within the next couple of weeks to allow for easier Christmas pressies?
TreesBreeze: I wanna be nyable to sell my marketplace listings inworld!
Ifrit Skytower: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925457226162909274/1178803762425503844/image.png
Darkover Tone: yes, would it be hard to implement at all?
Sntax Linden: Hana I also want this
Sasy Scarborough: we had it that way in the old days
Sasy Scarborough: you could have Xstreet vendors
Sasy Scarborough: it was all connected
Sntax Linden: Darkover I don't expect it will be
Darkover Tone: it would be amazing to see that prior to Christmas.....
Sasy Scarborough: Sntax you asked about changes to the marketplace stuff in the past, and i wanted to be able to make things clearer with a proper editor etc
Sasy Scarborough: Caspervend has that in their listing section and also uuid for the image
Sasy Scarborough: so that should be crossed over into MP
Butch Daddy: casper vendor integration with the marketplace would be awesome! I could get a redelivery anywhere in world instead of having to go to the marketplace to get one
Darkover Tone: Separate shopping cart for gifts though would make it especially easy to shop for a holiday season ><
Sasy Scarborough: because bullet points, bold, underline etc would be a godsend in proper information
Sasy Scarborough: cant you do that with Caspervend already if your store is linked ?
Sntax Linden: cool I have heard that from others as well. I'll talk to casper about it : )
TreesBreeze: markdown support ΦωΦ
Garfield Linden: marketplace has a lot of code cruft that can make it difficult to quickly add features, but on the surface, adding a "buy gift now" option should be quite doable (and I feel like we maybe discussed it in our internal feature triage recently? so there's probably a Jira for it)
Sasy Scarborough: yes, putting your whole store on sale at once
Sasy Scarborough: on Second Life Marketplace would be awesome too
Sntax Linden: Garfield I was thinking the same thing
Sasy Scarborough: more commissions for LL if we could do that easier
Sntax Linden: I remember a gift feature we just talked about that we liked but I can't find where I put the jira
Sasy Scarborough: store sales often result in packed regions people miss out
Darkover Tone: You can link casper to MP to serve mp sales items, but does it create a record for accessing it on the regular casper re-delivery system?
Ifrit Skytower: sorry, earlier link was mangled, here's a better link comparison https://i.imgur.com/DsN5WEp.png
Wulfie Reanimator: Temporary sales in merchant store (whole store or based on SKUs) would be *amazing.*
Sasy Scarborough: if the whole Second Life Marketplace could go on sale at the same time with just a click of a button and input of discount amount it would happen always i thing
Sasy Scarborough: think
TreesBreeze: nyaa.. don't wanna use casper... one more login... nyand it delivers everything in nya flat box... at least VMM has folder structure
Darkover Tone: yeh how's batch editing and copying listings going nowadays?
Butch Daddy: sales by percentage too. not having to pick an actual price!
Sntax Linden: how we unify casper and MP is one of the top things I want to do
Darkover Tone: SSO for casper?!
Sasy Scarborough: also Caspervend has no management control, please get that sorted
Darkover Tone: management control?
Sasy Scarborough: you dont have to use it Hana
Sasy Scarborough: assigning your store to a store manager
Sasy Scarborough: so that they can do listings etc
Sasy Scarborough: like you can with Second Life Marketplace and other vendor systems
Sasy Scarborough: Caspervend does not have that
Butch Daddy: I would love to see the ability to pick 1, more, or all, items and enter a percentage amount, like 15 or 25 and have all items flagged with a sale banner automatically and the discount price auto applied to the listings.
Darkover Tone: i thought you can do that with Casper
Sasy Scarborough: nope
Darkover Tone: hmm, yeh, that's a big fail then
Sasy Scarborough: you can give your password to someone not actually give them their own
Sasy Scarborough: so its a risk etc
Sntax Linden: I need to jump to my next meeting but I am planning on being at the content creator meeting tomorrow so you all should come : )
Darkover Tone: I was pretty sure i talked to someone who assigned rights to another person...need to check into that
Sasy Scarborough: right Butch it would mean a lot more discount ability and not limited to store only
Wulfie Reanimator: See you Sntax!
Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Sntax.
Darkover Tone: i always try to make all the meetings, but RL gets in the way :(
Butch Daddy: thank you, syntax!
Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Garfield.
Nya Blackwood: byee.. thanks for the meeting
Butch Daddy: and he is gone
Otoa Kiyori: Thank you
Butch Daddy: lol
TreesBreeze: if it were my choice we'd just have nya single marketplace experience and all caspervend stuff that's good would just get moved into it.. we'd use VMM to manage and deliver everything, inworld and in mp
Darkover Tone: lol
Darkover Tone: ~**~POOF~**~
Sasy Scarborough: take care all
Darkover Tone: ops
Darkover Tone: ~**~UNPOOF~**~
Butch Daddy: bye all!
Yuzuru Jewell: See you.
TreesBreeze: see nyaaa
Darkover Tone: VMM?
Garfield Linden: I'll try to be at the content creator group as well!
Darkover Tone: that would be amazing Garfield :)
TreesBreeze: Viewer Managed Marketplace
TreesBreeze: aka
TreesBreeze: Avatar -> Marketplace Listings
Darkover Tone: with a much much better UI right?
TreesBreeze: nya (Φ ᆺ Φ)
TreesBreeze: the UI is better than dropping stuff into nya casper drop box
TreesBreeze: the vmm is the equivalent of nya drop box
TreesBreeze: but
TreesBreeze: with folders
TreesBreeze: nyand organisation
Darkover Tone: i think it's very important to have both viewer and web management, but absolutely think the viewer one needs to get some focus
Darkover Tone: It's kinda bad atm....
EnCore Mayne: Garfield: what would be a good location to reach you or Sntax about any further input or ideas for the user group?
Darkover Tone: i think Sntax had mentioned emailing him
EnCore Mayne: could i have that email address or where i could find it
TreesBreeze: vmm is not replacement for web ui
TreesBreeze: is replacement for
TreesBreeze: dropping stuff in nya prim that has to be on land
EnCore Mayne: i think it might do a world of good if the whole group had access to any further input or ideas
TreesBreeze: nya prim who's inventory takes 3 minutes to load
TreesBreeze: has no organisation
Darkover Tone: o hmm whatever the default email syntax is lol, lez check his profile :p
TreesBreeze: nyand when your region restarts or your landlord kicks you out can no longer deliver items
TreesBreeze: in these terms vmm is nya godsend
Garfield Linden: email works, yep - I'm always open to receiving them (schedule/work pressures permitting, hehe)
Garfield Linden: it's just our linden names @lindenlab.com, so garfield@lindenlab.com etc
TreesBreeze: both vmm nyand caspervend ultimately require going to a web ui and creating a listing
Darkover Tone: wow, Sntax needs to put something in his profile
Garfield Linden: the more detail you can provide, the better - and even better, if you can file a Jira for us that would be amazing
TreesBreeze: but nyat least vmm you can easily get to that page
EnCore Mayne: got it, thanks Garfield
TreesBreeze: there is no link to your caspervend listing from your caspervend drop box
Darkover Tone: even an emoji...it looks so barren
TreesBreeze: but in vmm nya can get to your listing easy
Garfield Linden: we have an internal feature triage meeting every week where we discuss new Jiras filed by users, and it's a great way for all the internal teams to have input
Darkover Tone: Jiras are best probably
Darkover Tone: how come there's no separate project for feature requests in jira though/
Darkover Tone: everything goes under....what was it... bugs?
Darkover Tone: messy
TreesBreeze: gonna poof, see nyaa
Darkover Tone: peeps run so fast you can't even say bye lol
Ifrit Skytower: internet is fast like that
Garfield Linden: we're looking at improving that experience, Darkover
Garfield Linden: stay tuned
Darkover Tone: o nm, there is a new feature request category now
Darkover Tone: i don't remember seeing that before
Darkover Tone: hehe
Garfield Linden: oh ya, there is that
Garfield Linden: but should hopefully be getting even better/easier
Darkover Tone: o nm sorry
Darkover Tone: i need coffee
Darkover Tone: it's under issue type, but the project is still bugs, which seems messy and will confuse peeps
Garfield Linden: mhm
Garfield Linden: agreed
Garfield Linden: alright, I must scram! ta ta
Darkover Tone: take care :)
Ifrit Skytower: ciao garfield
Darkover Tone: hopefully see you tomorrow
Ifrit Skytower: yeah, see yout omorrow!
Ifrit Skytower: off i go too
Darkover Tone: okies tc everyone who's left lol