Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-04-21

This meeting was held on April 21st, 2011

Agenda

Updates

• Second Life Server (main channel)
  • "Inventory Capabilities" project from BlueSteel went primetime this week.
    • Gives inventory capabilities to the Agent DS hosts.
      • Sim capabilities support "Accept-Encoding: gzip" to provide compressed inventory responses.
        • FetchInventory2
        • FetchInventoryDescendents2
        • FetchLib2
        • FetchLibDescendents2
    • Removed some dead/unused code inventory HTTP code.
    • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.04.12.226461

• BlueSteel RC Channel
  • Andrew's "maint-server" project.
  • Bug Fixes
    • SVC-6055 Avatar position reverts to original sittarget in simcrossing
    • SVC-6808 Muting a new-style 'Resident' avatar is ineffective when you're offline
    • SVC-6859 llTeleportAgentHome on an agent not over your land shouldn't result in the _target_ getting the message
    • SVC-6882 Mini-map shows multiple dots for one avatar, but avatar is not ghosted
    • SVC-5880 Vehicles "Jumping" when crossing prims
      • This is caused by the physics engine reporting collision info for "hidden" faces (the vertical faces where the road objects butt up against each other). It has existed since the very beginning of SL and affects all objects (not just vehicles) however it became particularly bad for vehicles after the physics engine upgrade to Havok4 in 2008.04.
      • To repair broken vehicles a "workaround" was introduced to reduce the effect: vehicle collision events get special scrutiny and some collision events are removed. It helps, but is not 100% effective and also has some side effects such as causing vehicles to sometimes partially penetrate curbs, walls, and other obstacles, or even tunnel through walls for small vehicles.
      • To solve this problem correctly in Havok7 a config parameter was tweaked in the physics engine. Also, the aforementioned workaround for vehicles has been removed, so some vehicle behavior may change. Besides a reduction of vehicles penetrating obstacles they may also "jump" more when crossing seams that are not quite lined up right -- short obstacles may cause vehicles to jump where they used to roll smoothly.
    • SVC-6900 Group-owned objects located in private estates cannot send IMs to offline avatars
    • SVC-6403 llGiveInventory is not working!
  • New Feature
    • Add llRegionSayTo LSL function.
    • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.04.19.227029

• LeTigre RC Channel
  • Kelly's "Mono2 Upgrade" project.
  • Oh LeTigre... you poor little kitten.
    • We had some fun getting LeTigre out this week.
  • Script performance and robustness

    This release includes many features that improve the performance and robustness of scripts compiled to Mono. This includes a lot of back end infrastructure work with unit tests and script life cycle to make it easier and safer to work with the script system in the future.

  • New Script Profiling LSL Functions
    • llScriptProfiler can enable or disable memory profiling with PROFILE_SCRIPT_MEMORY and PROFILE_SCRIPT_NONE. While profiling the scripts performance will be severely impacted.
    • llGetSPMaxMemory will report the highest level of used memory during the most recent, or current, profiling run.
    • llGetUsedMemory will report the current used memory of the script and does not require profiling to be enabled.
  • Bug Fixes
    • SVC-3895 Rezzing Mono scripted object cripples sim FPS
    • Improved 'Top Scripts' report

      Each object now reports an average script time per frame since the object was created or the last 30 minutes, whichever is shorter. This fixes a lot of odd behavior and misinformation in the previous results as well as makes it easier to determine recent lag sources instead of only immediate lag sources.

      It is still not expected for this result to exactly match the 'Script ms' reported in the simulator stats summary as these measure different things on different time scales.

  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.04.19.227179

• Magnum RC Channel
  • Monty's "Fast Assets" project again. This will probably get promoted next week.
    • Higher asset request concurrency for downloads issued by the simulator.
      • Allows concurrent simulator asset downloads from the asset backend.
      • Greatest improvement where regions have long download queue sizes
      • Lower request latency for non-texture requests particularly
      • Textures (HTTP and UDP) mostly unchanged
    • More fair queuing behavior for non-texture assets
      • Non-texture requests are serviced in order of receipt rather than last-in-first-out.
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.04.19.226960
  • Initial Results
    • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group/faster_assets_data_results

• Update on XMPP
  • Investigations
  • Results
  • Plans

Upcoming Stuff

• "mesh-prep" branch.
  • framework and infrastructural changes for AGNI to support mesh.
  • llCastRay
  • SVC-5880
  • Havok 2010.2
  • 10cm gap elimination
  • bug fixes
• On ADITI now.

Interesting Stuff

• Security Bounties.
  • Find a crasher or security issue.
  • File a SEC- jira.
  • Make L$10,000
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Security_issues

Any Other Items

• SLSkynet went aware.
• I'm trying a new wikifying tool below.

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for April 21st, 2011:

Attendees List

• Ann Otoole (ann.otoole)
• oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)
• ANSI Soderstrom (ansi.soderstrom) (User's Wiki Page)
• Coffee Maker (coffee.maker)
• Don Steele (donlad.avro)
• draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
• Dragon Linden (dragon.linden)
• Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
• Monster LagGroup (eddi.decosta)
• Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
• Gearsawe Stonecutter (gearsawe.stonecutter) (User's Wiki Page)
• Geo Meek (geo.meek)
• Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)
• IEvangeline (ievangeline)
• Kadah Coba (kadah.coba) (User's Wiki Page)
• Kallista Destiny (kallista.destiny)
• -tehKellz' (kelly.linden)
• Lares Carter (lares.carter) (User's Wiki Page)
• Latif Khalifa (latif.khalifa) (User's Wiki Page)
• Lucia Nightfire (lucia.nightfire)
• Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden)
• Starship (master.starship)
• Master Starship (master.starship)
• Methias Kira (methias.kira)
• Motor Loon (motor.loon) (User's Wiki Page)
• Moundsa Mayo (moundsa.mayo)
• NielArcher (nielarcher)
• Object (object)
• oobscure (opensource.obscure)
• uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)
• ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)
• Patnad RezzMe (patnad.babii)
• Pauline Darkfury (pauline.darkfury)
• Psi Merlin (psi.merlin) (User's Wiki Page)
• RedMokum Bravin (redmokum.bravin)
• SMILE (sigma.avro)
• Simon Linden (simon.linden)
• Skills Hak (skills.hak)
• And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
• Zi Ree (zi.ree) (User's Wiki Page)

Transcript for Thursday April 21, 2011

[15:01]	Motor Loon	Ossieee
[15:01]	Lares Carter	Heya Oskar!
[15:01]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	hi everybody.
[15:01]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	hey oskar
[15:01]	Kallista Destiny	Greetings Oskar
[15:01]	Motor Loon	Sneaky like a ninja as usual
[15:01]	IEvangeline	It's gonna eat you Moundsa
[15:01]	Moundsa Mayo	Hallo, Oskar!
[15:01]	RedMokum Bravin	Hail Grimlord!
[15:01]	IEvangeline	Hiya Oskar :D
[15:01]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	can someone with Display Names enabled send me a transcript of this meeting afterwards?
[15:01]	Kallista Destiny	Sure
[15:01]	Moundsa Mayo	Pixels eating pixels. Must be some kind of metaphor in there.
[15:01]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	hi oskar
[15:01]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I record it with display names turned off but wanted to try a new DN -> wiki tool
[15:01]	Simon Linden	has left the region.
[15:02]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	thanks kallista
[15:02]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	has entered the region.
[15:02]	Kallista Destiny	No changing DN durring or after the meeting.
[15:02]	RedMokum Bravin	*whistle*
[15:02]	Geo Meek	/names
[15:02]	Methias Kira	Mastro Linden has possibly the best linden name i've seen since 2006
[15:02]	Motor Loon	and no breathing til after the meeting either
[15:02]	Pauline Darkfury	has entered the region.
[15:02]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	looks like we've got a nice little crowd here :-)
[15:02]	Moundsa Mayo	Any chance this huge looming plywood flatapple could be shifted out of the meeting area?
[15:03]	Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden)	Heh, thanks Methias
[15:03]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I'll hold on a minute or two more and let people arrive
[15:03]	NielArcher	has entered the region.
[15:03]	Methias Kira	Welcome. :D
[15:03]	Moundsa Mayo	THX!
[15:03]	Kallista Destiny	wow 25 people so far...
[15:03]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	how's everyone this week?
[15:03]	Kallista Destiny	26
[15:03]	Motor Loon	crappy... chipped a tooth last nite
[15:03]	Moundsa Mayo	Intersting how disrupting it seemed, even when I could cam around at will.
[15:04]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	good and yourself oskar?
[15:04]	IEvangeline	I good, and *Hugs Motor*
[15:04]	Motor Loon	and the damn dentists are closed for easter
[15:04]	Kallista Destiny	already?
[15:04]	Moundsa Mayo	Ouch, Motor!
[15:04]	Motor Loon	stupid easter
[15:04]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	Hello, fine thanks Oskar, hi Maestro
[15:04]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Seattle has some really nice weather this week
[15:04]	Moundsa Mayo	Snapped at a chocolate rabbit?
[15:04]	Pauline Darkfury	Hi folks :)
[15:04]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I've been playing tons of StarCraft 2
[15:04]	RedMokum Bravin	Amsterdam was hot.
[15:04]	Motor Loon	I was eating meat
[15:04]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	and my new baby oak tree is growing like mad
[15:04]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	yes, Western Europe too
[15:05]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	oh I never saw that from this wand before
[15:05]	Moundsa Mayo	Oops.
[15:05]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	hah
[15:05]	RedMokum Bravin	That's a maple leaf though
[15:05]	Moundsa Mayo	Call the Arbor Foundation!
[15:05]	Pauline Darkfury	Yeah, the UK is surprisingly warm for April, unusual to feel the benefit of the car's air-con this time of year
[15:05]	RedMokum Bravin	or what is it
[15:05]	Kallista Destiny	be careful a dragon might come along on a train
[15:05]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	it's still pretty cool here in Seattle, but the sun is out
[15:05]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	and that's all we care about
[15:05]	Methias Kira	So thats what they are calling these days, Oskar. Baby Oak.
[15:05]	Coffee Maker	Request accepted, Please wait..
[15:05]	Methias Kira	:3
[15:05]	Geo Meek	D
[15:06]	Moundsa Mayo	Heee.
[15:06]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	well let's get this party started shall we?
[15:06]	Simon Linden	has entered the region.
[15:06]	IEvangeline	Yes please :D
[15:06]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	is there anyone new here today?
[15:06]	Coffee Maker	Thanks you, Have a nice day Pauline
[15:06]	IEvangeline	*Raises hand*
[15:06]	Kallista Destiny	192 temp prims
[15:06]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Hi!
[15:06]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I'm Oskar. :-)
[15:06]	Moundsa Mayo	A couple of my friends are moving out there. The wife showed up in the middle of sunny weather ...
[15:06]	IEvangeline	Hello :D
[15:06]	Pauline Darkfury	1st time I've made it to beta OH, but not sure I count as "new"
[15:06]	Ann Otoole	has entered the region.
[15:06]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	hello simon
[15:06]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	there is always a first time
[15:07]	Simon Linden	Hello everyone
[15:07]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I was a little amused by how many people in the beta chat on AGNI wanted to know where the meeting was after I sent out the link telling people where the meeting was
[15:07]	Moundsa Mayo	Ah, hey Simon!
[15:07]	Motor Loon	ey simon
[15:07]	IEvangeline	Hi. Simon :D
[15:07]	Kallista Destiny	Hello simon
[15:07]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	where is the meeting ?
[15:07]	Moundsa Mayo	Yeah, Oskar, where IS this meeting?
[15:07]	Starship (master.starship)	oh oskar the bug I gave you a box about was SVC-6403 I just never was able to get a good repro
[15:07]	Geo Meek	im dum as a brick
[15:07]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	speaking of
[15:07]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	here is the agenda link: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[15:07]	Latif Khalifa	mono2 numbers is my guess for popularity
[15:08]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we'll start with main channel
[15:08]	Motor Loon	Quite an agenda today
[15:08]	Dragon Linden	has entered the region.
[15:08]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	main channel got the "Inventory Capabilities" project from BlueSteel
[15:08]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	that went over fine
[15:08]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	the RC's were a little busier
[15:09]	Object	To join our group 1) open your chat history, 2) click on the link, and 3) press the Join button.
[15:09]	Object	secondlife:///app/group/19657888-576f-83e9-2580-7c3da7c0e4ca/about
[15:09]	Moundsa Mayo	B^)
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	since last week we had an empty slot that meant that this week we had 2 free slots
[15:09]	Skills Hak	has entered the region.
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	the two projects that went in were not small projects
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	lots of changes
[15:09]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	oops, still restarting regions !
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	We'll start with BlueSteel
[15:09]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	has left the region.
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Andrew's "maint-server" project.
[15:09]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	lots of bug fixes in here
[15:09]	Skills Hak	happy doomsday
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	SVC-6055
[15:10]	IEvangeline	Hey Skills *Hugs* ^^
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	hey isn't there a jirabot in here?
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	pokes the jirabot
[15:10]	Motor Loon	yeah... thanks for fixing my Jira there....
[15:10]	Skills Hak	i have no inv skeleton for some reason >.>
[15:10]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	has entered the region.
[15:10]	Skills Hak	oh well
[15:10]	Kallista Destiny	aparently not
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	poor jirabot
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	anyone have a jirabot handy?
[15:10]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	fetching invetory
[15:10]	NielArcher	standing in for jira-bot: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6055
[15:10]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	heh
[15:11]	Latif Khalifa	phoenix has it built in
[15:11]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	so does tip of firestorm
[15:11]	Motor Loon	Vehicles "Jumping" when crossing prims
[15:11]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	well it's all in the agenda anyway
[15:11]	Kallista Destiny	yeah but Jirabot also puts the title
[15:11]	Motor Loon	I did make a workaround long ago though, but ofcourse always nice with a bugfix
[15:11]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	no one has a jirabot handy?
[15:12]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	i rezzed one
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I bet ANSI has one
[15:12]	ANSI Soderstrom	Oskar Linden changed some settings on ANSI´s Avatar
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	SVC-6808
[15:12]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	puts an svc for missing jirabot
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	oh. it just puts the link
[15:12]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	may end up writing one on later
[15:12]	Methias Kira	has left the region.
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	ok
[15:12]	NielArcher	sub-standard bot: Avatar position reverts to original sittarget in simcrossing
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	If you do draconis give me the script and I'll put it in my chair
[15:12]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	nods
[15:12]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	who has regions on BlueSteel?
[15:13]	Drongle McMahon	has entered the region.
[15:13]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	me
[15:13]	Pauline Darkfury	have a number of BlueSteel
[15:13]	Lucia Nightfire	I do
[15:13]	Skills Hak	has left the region.
[15:13]	Ann Otoole	i have a parcel on blue steel
[15:13]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	a lot of fixes went in there. how are they holding up?
[15:13]	Moundsa Mayo	Huckleberry mainland is, iirc.
[15:13]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	me it just restarted I see
[15:13]	Pauline Darkfury	seems ok
[15:13]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	how is vehicle physics performance?
[15:13]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	that's what I was worried about
[15:13]	Pauline Darkfury	did some kart racing on a holodeck race track that is multi-prim for the actual tarmac, seemed problem free
[15:14]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	have not checked
[15:14]	Ann Otoole	worked fine last night
[15:14]	Falcon Linden	has entered the region.
[15:14]	Skills Hak	has entered the region.
[15:14]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	cool
[15:14]	Pauline Darkfury	The karts themselves still handle like demented shopping trolleys, but the "jumping" seemed fine on prim boundaries ;)
[15:14]	Ann Otoole	but a couple people on imprudence never rez stuff and stats show no pending downloads
[15:14]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	anyone mess with llRegionSayTo yet?
[15:14]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlRegionSayTo
[15:14]	Lucia Nightfire	they seems smoother, I have road vehicles entering and leaving my sim continuously
[15:14]	Lucia Nightfire	and I used regionsayto, love it
[15:14]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	hey kelly
[15:15]	Moundsa Mayo	Allo Kelly
[15:15]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	and falcon
[15:15]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	wow
[15:15]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	big group this week
[15:15]	Moundsa Mayo	AND Falcon
[15:15]	Monster LagGroup (eddi.decosta)	hi Oskar, and Kelly :)
[15:15]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	is it somewhere already ?
[15:15]	Motor Loon	Relating perhaps to SVC-5880 - I've seen some very odd things happen to some of my vehicles after Falcon poked around with havok settings. Like bikes spinning around themself when running in idle... some "just" in a circle... others at times flipping over ... behavior they ofcourse didn't have before.
[15:15]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	you'd think SLSkynet went selfaware or something
[15:15]	Moundsa Mayo	And Dragon
[15:15]	Falcon Linden	Where's /my/ hello?
[15:16]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	caw falcon
[15:16]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	falcon falcon falcon
[15:16]	Dragon Linden	hello, everyone
[15:16]	Falcon Linden	:)
[15:16]	IEvangeline	Hiya Falcon *Blows kisses*
[15:16]	Monster LagGroup (eddi.decosta)	hey Falcon long time no see!!
[15:16]	Falcon Linden	Motor: Did you file a jira with example objects?
[15:16]	Latif Khalifa	i better keep quiet :P
[15:16]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	hi dragon, simon
[15:16]	Falcon Linden	haha
[15:16]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	the agenda for the latecomers: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[15:16]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	falcon
[15:16]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we're talking about andrews maint-server on BlueSteel
[15:16]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	maestro
[15:16]	Motor Loon	Falcon: not yet, I have been trying to make something that reproduces it every time, however it seems to be periodic and most odd
[15:17]	Falcon Linden	k
[15:17]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I'll mention Magnum next since there's nothing going on there that's new
[15:17]	Drongle McMahon	has left the region.
[15:17]	Falcon Linden	thanks for waiting until you have a real repro :)
[15:17]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Magnum has Monty's "Fast Assets" project again.
[15:17]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	merged with trunk
[15:17]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	that brings us to LeTigre
[15:18]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	poor little kitten
[15:18]	Kallista Destiny	snickers
[15:18]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	she was not happy to go live this week
[15:18]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we noticed a lot of regions crashing on startup repeatedly
[15:18]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we put LeTigre on the main branch for Wednesday
[15:18]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	kelly, maestro, what was the gist of the crashers?
[15:18]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	thats not me, i swear
[15:19]	Kallista Destiny	purs
[15:19]	Kallista Destiny	Mmmmmmmm
[15:19]	Zi Ree	has entered the region.
[15:19]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	weird
[15:20]	Kallista Destiny	strange indeed.
[15:20]	Drongle McMahon	has entered the region.
[15:20]	Moundsa Mayo	Mono only?
[15:20]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	thankfully we got it fixed and tested quickly
[15:20]	Pauline Darkfury	so should be no content loss (crashed scripts in no-mod objects)?
[15:20]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	very sympatetic from the sim !
[15:20]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	has entered the region.
[15:21]	Kallista Destiny	You is late Tank.
[15:21]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	since we got it fixed and tested so quickly we were able to schedule a release this morning
[15:21]	Starship (master.starship)	I assume getting errors from a script that was compile in letigre with the new functions on other sims is not a surpise
[15:21]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	so as of this morning LeTigre has Kelly's "Mono2 Upgrade" project
[15:21]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	I was on LeTigre right before coming here and I still saw lag spikes when I TP'd in with about 200 mono scripts :S I tested by having an alt there and monitoring the statistics bar and trying to move
[15:22]	Falcon Linden	mutters something about "200 scripts"
[15:22]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	The sandboxes is where I tested
[15:22]	Starship (master.starship)	200 is small
[15:22]	Falcon Linden	Kelly: could we solve the problem by must limiting everyone to 2 scripts? :)
[15:22]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	kelly do you have any initial results gathered on sim performance improvements?
[15:22]	Kallista Destiny	hair + a dress can hit 200 easily
[15:22]	Falcon Linden	or maybe 1 per attachment point :)
[15:22]	Kallista Destiny	I've seen people with 400+
[15:22]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	yeah I used 200 as a testing ground as it seems to be the general area people stay
[15:22]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	wednesday this mono2 upgrade should on all agni therefore ?
[15:22]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	ok
[15:22]	Zi Ree	I noticed a flurry of messages in my log about CoarsePositionUpdate overrunning a buffer on the mono2performance regions here on the beta.
[15:23]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	no Sigma
[15:23]	Simon Linden	Zi - yes, I just took care of that
[15:23]	Zi Ree	Oooo! Great news, thanks!
[15:23]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Monty's Fast Assets project will probably get promoted next week.
[15:23]	Simon Linden	The Rizal region next to us is running a build with a bu
[15:23]	Simon Linden	g
[15:23]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	ok, tks
[15:23]	Simon Linden	but I switched off the "run with bugs" flag
[15:23]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	200 mono scripts from resizable shoes caused lag spikes by causing the sim fps to lower to 30 fps and total frame time to jump to 42ms
[15:23]	Latif Khalifa	lol
[15:23]	Psi Merlin	I'm seeing a lot of freezes recorded - looks higher than normal
[15:24]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Kelly's "Mono2 Upgrade" project will go live at the earliest in 2-3 weeks
[15:24]	Psi Merlin	frame time appears to be spiking above 22.5ms quite a bit as well
[15:24]	Latif Khalifa	I've seen rather disappointing rez/derez results on mono2 sims.
[15:24]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	for between 2-5 seconds kelly, and i did not test lsl2 scripts
[15:24]	Pauline Darkfury	My testing with 500 script objects (about the max you'd typically see on an AV) was not terribly encouraging. In terms of time, 30% slower to rez them on LeTigre vs. main, and considerably longer to de-rez 5030 scripts (an extreme case, but was trying to get a sense of the timing under heavy load)
[15:24]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	i tested on all 4 sandboxes
[15:25]	Ann Otoole	attachment resizing would be better done as a viewer function regardless of permissions. let people fix their junk without scripts in a way that makes sense to farmville users coming to SL. IMHO.
[15:25]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	has left the region.
[15:25]	Starship (master.starship)	ok I am out
[15:25]	Pauline Darkfury	while rezzing 10 of the 500 script objects, the region's dilation and frame rates were badly hit, seemed about as bad as on main, approx
[15:25]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	for those of you who have been testing on the LeTigre regions I think it'd be great if you could take your findings to the mono2 forums: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/mono2-performance/bd-p/mono2-performance
[15:25]	Kallista Destiny	Ann, I think that would be a big problem for makers.
[15:25]	Psi Merlin	Rez time for a maze (with a mono move script is each block) was 2x longer
[15:25]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	has entered the region.
[15:25]	Latif Khalifa	Oskar, something that came up during comparative performance testing of mono2. It would be nice to have a set of 4 sandbox sims in the same configuration as 3 RC channels there for comparisons.
[15:25]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	has entered the region.
[15:26]	Ann Otoole	just an idea. better discussed in a forum i guess.
[15:26]	Latif Khalifa	of the production version i mean
[15:26]	Latif Khalifa	next to 3 RC sets there
[15:26]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I can probably do that Latif. I'd been thinking about it anyway
[15:27]	Pauline Darkfury	yeah, a quad of main channel sandboxes for the SL Beta group sounds a great idea
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	digs out the sim request forms
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	:-)
[15:27]	Latif Khalifa	i found mono2 about 4 times slower to derez bunch of identical scripts (as you would fine in shoe resizer)-
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	anyone else wants sims while I have toe forms handy
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	X-D
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	too late
[15:27]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	s/toe/the/
[15:27]	Moundsa Mayo	Pen must be SMOKIN!
[15:27]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	...
[15:28]	Pauline Darkfury	yeah, 4x slower sounds about right, Latif, I lagged around 64m walking when derezzing 5030 scripts on main vs. about 256m derezzing the same 5030 on LeTigre, sim totally frozen by the derez as far as I could tell
[15:28]	Motor Loon	I could use a betagrid version of Motorworld for vehicle testing Oskar.
[15:28]	Kallista Destiny	thinks that Oskar has been using ed way to much.
[15:28]	Ann Otoole	lol
[15:28]	Latif Khalifa	empty sandboxes are prefereble for script performance comparisons
[15:29]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	any other mono questions from LeTigre for Kelly while we're on the subject?
[15:29]	Latif Khalifa	Kelly, "faster than before" expected :)
[15:29]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	can we have good testing scripts?
[15:29]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	if that makes sense.
[15:29]	Pauline Darkfury	agrees with Latif, or at least "no worse than before"
[15:29]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	i mean scripts i can use to compare performances.
[15:29]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	empty sandboxes are only on agni, but tehy seem later in upgrading textting purposes
[15:29]	Kallista Destiny	agrees with Pauline
[15:30]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	I could make a benchmark script
[15:30]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	*testing
[15:30]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	feel free to share scripts you guys use for your own performance testing with the mailing list or in the forums
[15:30]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	not sure exactly what to do, I guess I could do string operations, int operations, etc
[15:30]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	just time em
[15:30]	Kallista Destiny	lslstones?
[15:31]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	ok, better to put them on blog indeed
[15:31]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	I think the issue would be finding two sims that are under the exact same load though
[15:31]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	that's a little harder on AGNI
[15:31]	Latif Khalifa	the problem with mono scripts isn't what they do, how long does it takes to rez and derez them. the lag spikes you see when people teleport in and out.
[15:31]	Pauline Darkfury	My test object is the Novatech "Channel Scanner 32K" - 500 identical Mono-compiled listener scripts (they should be smallish individually), 1 Mono control script, and 2 non-Mono random scripts per object
[15:31]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	no load = agni letigre buluesteel anf magnum snadboxes
[15:32]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	yeah the RC sandboxes are pretty light
[15:32]	Kallista Destiny	Well smile that is mostly true
[15:32]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmm. cool name dragon
[15:32]	Pauline Darkfury	My testing was on very quiet and relatively empty mainland Class 7s
[15:33]	Kallista Destiny	Oh can we have some, reasonable, auto return time on the RC sandboxes?
[15:33]	Dragon Linden	thx, mister goat :)
[15:33]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we'll chat more about BlueSteel and LeTigre next week. That should give people some time over the weekend to investigate them more
[15:33]	Pauline Darkfury	(no AVs in the regions at the time, approx 7500 prims or less in use, 3000-4000 scripts before testing)
[15:34]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	oh dragon, GOAT sold his soul to me for L$10 so if we need any extra work done GOAT can do it for us for free.
[15:34]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	yes, this is true
[15:34]	Dragon Linden	ah, sounds good :)
[15:34]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	I'm always looking out for good deals like that
[15:34]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	oskar, you show your residents your backside......
[15:34]	Ann Otoole	's ears perk up Soul sales? hmmm
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	alright. next up on the agenda
[15:35]	Ann Otoole	competition suxxors
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	XMPP updates
[15:35]	Falcon Linden	MWahaha
[15:35]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	:D!
[15:35]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	Have a question about flexi scultpies. Will they be in future LLs viewers ?
[15:35]	Kallista Destiny	ye!!
[15:35]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	yeay!
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	wait til the end sigma
[15:35]	Falcon Linden	flexy sculpties?
[15:35]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	sorry
[15:35]	Falcon Linden	do those exist?
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	:-)
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	shh falcon
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	don't encourage them
[15:35]	Falcon Linden	I'll take that as a no
[15:35]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	let me run with my agenda :-)
[15:35]	Falcon Linden	In which case: Never.
[15:36]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	puts away the jira with patch url
[15:36]	Falcon Linden	(if I have any say in the matter :)
[15:36]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	Our work on an XMPP solution for group chat was an investigation.
[15:36]	Latif Khalifa	Or until we get competent devs ;)
[15:36]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	LOL
[15:36]	Latif Khalifa	whichever comes first
[15:36]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	we wanted to determine whether or not we could make something scalable and reliable that would replace our current chat architecture.
[15:36]	Kallista Destiny	Yes, and is it guilty?
[15:36]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	XMPP didn't do that for us
[15:37]	Motor Loon	arh crap
[15:37]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	ho wso?
[15:37]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	it didn't represent an obvious performance and/or availability improvement over our existing system.
[15:37]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	*how so
[15:37]	Kallista Destiny	well crud....
[15:37]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	D:
[15:37]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	wha
[15:37]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmm.
[15:37]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	bad news
[15:37]	Motor Loon	replace the whole thing with IRC ?
[15:37]	Latif Khalifa	Oskar, that is theoretically impossible
[15:37]	Motor Loon	;-)
[15:37]	Kallista Destiny	Tin cans with string would be an improvement over the current IM system
[15:37]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	no latif it's not
[15:37]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	we're stuck with group chat lag for another 3-5 years???
[15:37]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	not really
[15:37]	Latif Khalifa	yes it is, nothing can be less reliable
[15:37]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	:O
[15:37]	Pauline Darkfury	XMPP is slower than geriatric carrier pigeons? :p
[15:37]	uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden)	the last thing we need is to cram some new system in and tell people it's better
[15:37]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	SL Server code is not as bad as you think
[15:38]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	OpenSim would give it's teeth for it
[15:38]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[15:38]	Motor Loon	syyhsh... dont mention teeth
[15:38]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	haha
[15:38]	Pauline Darkfury	agrees it would be silly to upgrade if there's not confidence in a significant improvement
[15:38]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	we decided it would be a better us of our time understanding the details of the performance issues with our current implementation
[15:38]	Kallista Destiny	Could looes 80% of the people in Sl too, ban gorup chat indeed.
[15:38]	Zi Ree	facepaws.
[15:39]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	XMPP was not the magical solution we thought it would be
[15:39]	Motor Loon	so... whats next?
[15:39]	Kadah Coba	has entered the region.
[15:39]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	yes, group chat lag is inherent to group talks
[15:39]	Latif Khalifa	I think it would be really useful if someone on that team would write a blog about it.
[15:40]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I'll ask them if they will Latif
[15:40]	Latif Khalifa	It just doesn't smell right.
[15:40]	Zi Ree	Maybe you could explain in detail how it works and what the requirements are?
[15:40]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	ok latif
[15:40]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	ugh :/ I wish you guys didn't have closed source servers
[15:40]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	I'm a bit confuzzled.. if the SL dev team hasnt been able to fix group chat lag thus far and find the culprit thus far, how is it going to be done now?
[15:40]	Zi Ree	Because ... as it looks from the outside, people fail to see how it can be so hard to make a group chat system.
[15:40]	Kallista Destiny	@SMILE 5 bloody minutes is not inherent in any reasonable communications system.
[15:40]	Latif Khalifa	The project was cut in its tracks, and I doubt it has reached the state where such concussion could be made.
[15:40]	Kadah Coba	I thought XMPP was scalable up to millions of concurrent users oO
[15:41]	Falcon Linden	Why don't we just use IRC? :)
[15:41]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	I mean heaven knows how you implemented XMPP, there are many alternate ways
[15:41]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	5 min !
[15:41]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[15:41]	Zi Ree	You'Re moving megabytes of data around in seconds.
[15:41]	Zi Ree	But ... text chat?
[15:41]	Zi Ree	...
[15:41]	Skills Hak	i'll make a #2,000 group
[15:41]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	you've been asking for an XMPP status update, that's it.
[15:41]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	evrybody talking togehther wont solve chat talks problems
[15:41]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol...IRC... Yeah, so we can have those lovely Netsplits?
[15:41]	Pauline Darkfury	XMPP claims some very big deployments, it's had some very smart people looking at it, I'm personally extremely surprised it didn't offer some glimmer of hope
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it offered lots of glimmers
[15:42]	Latif Khalifa	I doubt we're hearing the real story Pauline.
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	but no reality
[15:42]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	thx for the info, oskar, good info, if not a bit disapointing
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	from our investigations
[15:42]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	if no XMPP, then what in the future?
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it's disappointing for us too
[15:42]	Pauline Darkfury	Yeah, thanks for giving us the straight story on it
[15:42]	Latif Khalifa	It can run facebook and google talk, but not sl group chat. I doubt the hurdles were technical.
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I don't know Don, but when I do I'll let you guys know
[15:42]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	external servers for group chats ?
[15:42]	Falcon Linden	Latif: You should try dealing with all the edge cases we have to handle :)
[15:42]	Zi Ree	I guess we need more details on what the requirements on the group chat system are, and how it works currently, why it fails so hard and so on.
[15:42]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I got the sentiment latif
[15:43]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	i'm counting on another 3 years at the least of extreme group chat lag then :/
[15:43]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	so no current plans for a replacement of chat system, right?
[15:43]	Skills Hak	o.o
[15:43]	Skills Hak	oh well
[15:43]	Latif Khalifa	Falcon, I have. But I'm expensive when I do that.
[15:43]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	you've said you don't believe me. I don't need to be told that repeatedly
[15:43]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	@Latif: yes, but neither Facebook nor google talk have groups of hundreds to thousands
[15:43]	Latif Khalifa	Facebook has groups in millions.
[15:43]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	yes they do
[15:43]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	yeah, but I doubt they use chat :)
[15:43]	Latif Khalifa	thousands for facebook is peanuts
[15:43]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	yes they do, GOAT
[15:43]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	group chats
[15:44]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	with XMPP
[15:44]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	and no lag
[15:44]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	:/
[15:44]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmm.
[15:44]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	ok
[15:44]	Skills Hak	Mmmm
[15:44]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	with beyond 10,000 users in at once
[15:44]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	next up
[15:44]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	ok ok
[15:44]	Kallista Destiny	Oskar there are going to be a LOT of very disappointed peope out there. And Disappointed is going to be an understatement.
[15:44]	Pauline Darkfury	yeah, many of the large XMPP deployments are person to person focussed rather than large groups
[15:44]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	yes
[15:44]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	the "mesh-prep" branch
[15:44]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	group chats should be reconsidered deeply. Not only the lag question
[15:44]	Latif Khalifa	I have been watching the XMPP project, and in no way were they anywhere near teh stage where they could call it dead. My guess internal reorg>/staffing and prioritization are the real issue.
[15:44]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I've started working this through the beta channels here on ADITI
[15:44]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	>.>
[15:45]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	has a feeling Oskar is going to explode.
[15:45]	Skills Hak	it's a conspiracy!
[15:45]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	"mesh-prep" is framework and infrastructural changes for AGNI to support mesh.
[15:45]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	(not its prefered argument, hehe)
[15:45]	Latif Khalifa	Skills, changing priority is not a conspiracy. LL doesn't feel that fixing group chat is worth it.
[15:45]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	we're smoke testing it now
[15:45]	Patnad RezzMe (patnad.babii)	xmpp should be priority no1 for LL IMO
[15:45]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	ok latif, you had your say
[15:46]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	omg...drop it
[15:46]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I would appreciate constructive criticism not just ranting
[15:46]	Skills Hak	i heard someone is doing integration tests for merging mesh to the main viewer already o.o
[15:46]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	seriously, you're beating a dead horse
[15:46]	Falcon Linden	Skills: with mesh disabled
[15:46]	Moundsa Mayo	has left the region.
[15:46]	Patnad RezzMe (patnad.babii)	Xmpp > mesh
[15:46]	Latif Khalifa	Oskar, that requires not insulting people's intelligence with "announcements" ;)
[15:47]	Skills Hak	Mmm
[15:47]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	x.x
[15:47]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	Latif. please.
[15:47]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	mesh >> xmpp, lol, my opinion
[15:47]	Patnad RezzMe (patnad.babii)	what will be mesh good for when the groups are all dead...
[15:47]	Pauline Darkfury	Oskar, can you offer us any consolation that the chat problem is still considered a high priority even if the current fix has reached a dead end?
[15:47]	Kallista Destiny	Enough people, thre is a forum for this in the Jira
[15:47]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it is a high priority.
[15:47]	Pauline Darkfury	thanks :)
[15:48]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	what we don't want to do is just force out some solution that isn't any better. XMPP was not what we had hoped it was
[15:48]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	Anyways, @ Falcon: No, Kirsten has a working viewer with viewer-dev tip and mesh code both in it
[15:48]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	from what she said though
[15:48]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	by the time you guys get around to merging them
[15:48]	Moundsa Mayo	has entered the region.
[15:48]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	it's going to be hell
[15:48]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	you're able to upload mesh in kirsten's s21 rc
[15:48]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I'm moving on in the agenda
[15:48]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	we don't have a lot of time left
[15:49]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	the "mesh-prep" branch is being set up to prepare AGNI infrastructurally for mesh
[15:49]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it has a lot of the changes we've put into the mesh server
[15:49]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	has left the region.
[15:49]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	we've got llCastRay
[15:50]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	Havok 2010.2
[15:50]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	(a dedicated server for meshes ?)
[15:50]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	has entered the region.
[15:50]	Ann Otoole	I would like to take a moment and say how nice it is to have 1 second teleports and fast loading inventory with no losses. And sim crossings? I have flown around mainland for hours last few days and crossings are a bump. the LL server and viewer technology dev teams are doing a great job.
[15:50]	Skills Hak	has left the region.
[15:50]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	yeah
[15:50]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	although they lacked on that lovely merge to autobuild
[15:50]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	falcon what are the havok2010.2 changes?
[15:50]	Pauline Darkfury	agrees with Ann, there have been some very good improvements in the last year
[15:51]	Motor Loon	no more 10cm gaps between physical items yaay
[15:51]	Skills Hak	has entered the region.
[15:51]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	Oskar, I seen a bit about havok2010.2.. performances improvements, yes? when can we expect to see some physics improvements with vehicles, like more realism, etc
[15:51]	Falcon Linden	Indeed
[15:51]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	and gapless prims :-)
[15:52]	Zi Ree	Gapless only for convex shapes, though?
[15:52]	Falcon Linden	Zi: correct
[15:52]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	not many places where to test them. I can not get age verified with LLs system, lol
[15:52]	Falcon Linden	Zi: and nonphysical concave prims
[15:52]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	just make a paypal purchase Lol
[15:52]	Falcon Linden	llCastRay is out
[15:52]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	o.O
[15:52]	Zi Ree	nods to Falcon
[15:52]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	what's that do
[15:52]	Zi Ree	llCastRay is great :)
[15:52]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	what is 'realism' donlad?
[15:53]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	I (I dont use Paypal Goat, cant reset my pw that I forgot,, lol)
[15:53]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	Still seeing issues with pysics not working 100%. as in vert not woring and falling right thru the ground
[15:53]	Zi Ree	You cast a virtual ray from one point to anotehr and get a list of objects and vectors you intersect.
[15:53]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	I define realism as something comparible to how vehiclels would work in RL
[15:53]	Falcon Linden	Gearsawe: where?
[15:53]	Skills Hak	wait what?
[15:53]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	vehicles*
[15:53]	Skills Hak	llCastRay is out?
[15:53]	Skills Hak	missed it in a relog
[15:53]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	Filled a jira on is
[15:53]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	save llCastRay
[15:54]	Falcon Linden	Okay, sorry, here's what's up:
[15:54]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	you don't want that level of realism in here donlad
[15:54]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[15:54]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	for vehicles I do
[15:54]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	=]
[15:54]	Ann Otoole	so with some knowledge of ballistics one could make rather snazzy weapon systems that don't have to sling prims that get stuck in the air right?
[15:54]	Falcon Linden	1) llCastRay is available for testing on Sandbox Newcombe
[15:54]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	would like to listen to Falcon for onece, please
[15:54]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	falcon, agni or aditi?
[15:54]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	aditi
[15:54]	Falcon Linden	I am offering a L$5000 reward for anyone who can crash that region using llCastRay (it MUST be caused by llCastRay as verified from the log)
[15:54]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it has the "mesh-prep" branch
[15:54]	Falcon Linden	or rather, for the first person to do so
[15:54]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	O.O
[15:55]	Skills Hak	let me tp moy
[15:55]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	holy crap.
[15:55]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	word falcon ?
[15:55]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	reward on aditi ?
[15:55]	Falcon Linden	No, Agni L$
[15:55]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	lol
[15:55]	Falcon Linden	obviously :)
[15:55]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	tks Falcon, joking
[15:55]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	@Falcon: how many scripts are we allowed to use
[15:55]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	etc
[15:55]	NielArcher	heh is the reward on aditi too? ;-)
[15:55]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	:-)
[15:55]	Falcon Linden	However many you like. I've designed the throttling system to not care
[15:55]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	I think they give away $L on aditi for free
[15:55]	Don Steele (donlad.avro)	lol
[15:56]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-535 for the physics problem
[15:56]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	oh geezus, throttling :/
[15:56]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	woah
[15:56]	Falcon Linden	mwahaha
[15:56]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmmm....I could give it a nice try, could you pass out a landmark?
[15:56]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	bug island and bug island 2 also have the "mesh-prep" branch
[15:56]	Falcon Linden	anyhow, the prize is available for anyone who can manage. I don't have a landmark, sorry
[15:57]	Falcon Linden	Also:
[15:57]	Starship (master.starship)	nice
[15:57]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol falcon...you probably know it's impossible, or close to it.
[15:57]	Falcon Linden	2) The 10cm gap on all fixed prims and on physical convex prims has been removed
[15:57]	Falcon Linden	Mister GOAT: Well, the idea is to see if I'm right :)
[15:57]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmmm
[15:57]	Falcon Linden	3) SVC-5880 should be fixed, assuming your vehicles are sensibly built
[15:57]	Lares Carter	Oskar, does "mesh prep" also have >10m prims and >32 prim vehicles?
[15:58]	Falcon Linden	(no concave wheels!)
[15:58]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	I should ask LordGregGreg to help
[15:58]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	:D
[15:58]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	no Lares
[15:58]	Motor Loon	falcon: sensibly built?
[15:58]	Falcon Linden	sensibly == no concave prims for wheels
[15:58]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	ok. so we have 2 minutes left. I have one more thing I wanted to discuss
[15:58]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	ok
[15:58]	Motor Loon	sculpted wheels?
[15:58]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	Security Bounties
[15:58]	Falcon Linden	ok
[15:58]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	o.o
[15:58]	Falcon Linden	sculpted wheels are fine
[15:58]	Motor Loon	wunderbar
[15:58]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	we pay money for security issues that are found and reported
[15:58]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	O.O
[15:58]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I'm not sure if you are all aware of that
[15:58]	Latif Khalifa	occaisaonally
[15:58]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	absolut geil, nich ?
[15:59]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Security_issues
[15:59]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	what kind of security ..oh nvm.
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa	if soft remembers
[15:59]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	well, if there are plans for flexi meshes on v
[15:59]	Latif Khalifa	otherwise you don't get payed
[15:59]	Ann Otoole	real ones that still are possible right? not crap off the internet from years ago?
[15:59]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	the way it works is that if you find a repeatable crashing bug or security exploit file a SEC- jira with full details
[15:59]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	then keep it a secret. :-)
[15:59]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[15:59]	Skills Hak	is it still 10k L$?
[15:59]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	if you are the first we pay L$10,000 once the fix is live
[15:59]	Skills Hak	mm
[16:00]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	hmm...
[16:00]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	it's not a lot, but it's something :-)
[16:00]	Falcon Linden	oh, in that case, I'm raising my bounty to L$10k!
[16:00]	Motor Loon	10k aint much these days
[16:00]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	smart people find more than one :-)
[16:00]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	O.O
[16:00]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	dang
[16:00]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	security issues should me more than k, hehe
[16:00]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I just wanted to mention it
[16:00]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	10
[16:00]	Skills Hak	some could make a living with it ;p
[16:00]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I know a lot of you show me these SEC issues for free
[16:00]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	is SVC-6782 a security issue ?
[16:00]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	I just want to see you get something from it
[16:00]	Motor Loon	yeah in africa if you live on rice alone
[16:00]	Master Starship	TIME
[16:01]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	Oskar, you realize had you had that on teen grid years ago, the grid would be more bug free than ever?
[16:01]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[16:01]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	I mean they make 90% of the bad viewers ... and exploits
[16:01]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	wonder if sec includes vwr crashes
[16:01]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	ANSI, not if it's filed publicly :-D
[16:01]	ANSI Soderstrom	Oskar Linden changed some settings on ANSI´s Avatar
[16:01]	Ann Otoole	thanks for the time :)
[16:01]	Latif Khalifa	I'll tell you how that system really works when Oskar leaves ;)
[16:01]	Ann Otoole	has left the region.
[16:01]	Latif Khalifa	otherwise I'm getting permaban here
[16:01]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol
[16:01]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	Latif thinks he knows
[16:01]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	hmpf :)
[16:02]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	next time ANSI
[16:02]	ANSI Soderstrom	Oskar Linden changed some settings on ANSI´s Avatar
[16:02]	Skills Hak	if you getting a permaban you are doing it wrong
[16:02]	Latif Khalifa	I will give you not sugarcoated corpo-PR version ;)
[16:02]	Skills Hak	obviously
[16:02]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	Falcon had one more thing
[16:02]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	yay
[16:02]	Falcon Linden	Physics Materials
[16:02]	Skills Hak	oh lord
[16:02]	Falcon Linden	I ported those into the mesh-prep branch, but have them disabled sim-side for now
[16:03]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	what are these now? different than the normal prim materials?
[16:03]	Falcon Linden	I'm going to offer a L$5k (to start) bounty for anyone who can crash a "Mesh Experimental" region by playing with those settings in a mesh viewer
[16:03]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	whats is that?
[16:03]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	what are physics materials standing for ?
[16:03]	Falcon Linden	if no one manages in a few weeks, I'll enable it on the mesh-prep branch
[16:03]	Skills Hak	it's no fun with agni dollars :<
[16:03]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	i try to get the $LS5k reward for llCastRay
[16:03]	Falcon Linden	physics materials == friction (from 0.0 to 255.0!), density, restitution, and...
[16:03]	Falcon Linden	oh, right, gravity multiplier
[16:03]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	ah
[16:03]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	ah! great !
[16:03]	Falcon Linden	you can make zero grav objects and balloons!
[16:03]	Motor Loon	pretty fun to pla with
[16:04]	Motor Loon	play even
[16:04]	Falcon Linden	also, for better vehicle behavior, try 5x gravity
[16:04]	Motor Loon	ofcourse you could also with it with scripts... but this is pretty easy
[16:04]	oldSchool (ansi.soderstrom)	oatmeal14 is full with zeroGravs....
[16:04]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	friction is great
[16:04]	Master Starship	do you have a link falcon
[16:04]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	just don;t put in -1 gravity then let it go
[16:04]	Falcon Linden	It'll just get returned to you if you do
[16:04]	Falcon Linden	fun thing: sit on a ball, then set it -1 grav and physical
[16:04]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	Lol
[16:05]	Falcon Linden	balloons work best inside
[16:05]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	so avat will return to its inventory
[16:05]	Drongle McMahon	What if you are sitting on it?
[16:05]	Motor Loon	will these settings be changable from scripts?
[16:05]	Falcon Linden	it'll be returned to your inventory and you'll start falling
[16:05]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	ooh fun
[16:05]	Falcon Linden	Motor: eventually, but not until they've been around for a little while to see that they're safe
[16:05]	Motor Loon	kk
[16:05]	Falcon Linden	the code exists for setting them, but it's disabled via a separate switch
[16:05]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	(how can we use friction and where please ?)
[16:05]	Skills Hak	does it work on attachments?
[16:05]	Master Starship	it gets return at 4096 right
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	skills: no
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	master: yes
[16:06]	Skills Hak	awwe
[16:06]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	just prim to prim
[16:06]	Motor Loon	oh, I noticed the other day (when trying to add projected texture lights to a vehicle) that I couldnt seem to find a scripted way to set that up? was I wrong?
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	gearsawe: and av to prim, but you can't set the av's values
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	motor: no idea
[16:06]	Moundsa Mayo	And prim to ground?
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	Moundsa: yes
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	prim to anything
[16:06]	Falcon Linden	except attachments which don't exist in physics...
[16:06]	Master Starship	but how can they use move to then
[16:06]	Mister GOAT (goat.firethorn)	lol falcon you must've taken some of Teeple's red bull, you seem very fast today.
[16:07]	Falcon Linden	okay, no I've gotta run. If you want to play with the materials, grab a mesh viewer and go to a Mesh Sandbox
[16:07]	Skills Hak	that's pretty neat
[16:07]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	gasp, what viewer can do this ?
[16:07]	Pauline Darkfury	emDash has a /gravity if you want to play with AV gravity, not quite sure how Chesh implements it
[16:07]	oobscure (opensource.obscure)	thanks you all lindens. take care everybody! please share scripts for performance testing on forum or mailing list
[16:07]	Gearsawe Stonecutter	will have to try again
[16:07]	Zi Ree	llSetBuoyancy
[16:07]	Falcon Linden	Have fun! Don't forget the bounties
[16:07]	SMILE (sigma.avro)	ok, mesh viwer, tks Falcon
[16:07]	NielArcher	has left the region.
[16:07]	Falcon Linden	Zi: gravity multiplier is WAY more efficient than set buoyancy
[16:07]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	watches his mesh viewer log fill with "2011-04-21T22:33:12Z WARNING: LLOctreeRoot<class LLDrawable>::insert: !!! ELEMENT EXCEEDS RANGE OF SPATIAL PARTITION !!!"
[16:07]	Skills Hak	would be cool if it worked on avatars via attachments
[16:07]	Zi Ree	Yeah, that was to the question how emDash does it.
[16:07]	Simon Linden	has left the region.
[16:08]	Falcon Linden	skills: too easy to have conflicting attachments.
[16:08]	Falcon Linden	has left the region.
[16:08]	Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden)	Thanks for coming, everybody!
[16:08]	Master Starship	side note
[16:08]	Moundsa Mayo	Thanks for your time, Oskar, Maestro, Simon, Falcon, and Dragon! And Kelly, for while B^)
[16:08]	Pauline Darkfury	Thanks, Lindens, have a good one :)
[16:08]	ALT-F4 Me (oskar.linden)	whoa 8 minutes over!

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