Content Creation User Group/Transcripts/2023.12.07

CONTENT USER GROUP MEETING
Combined Voice & Chat Meeting
7 December 2023

[ Audio recording 2023.12.07 ]

Speakers

Chat

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Rider.

TreesBreeze: (Φ ᆺ Φ)

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Leviathan.

Medhue Simoni: Yeah, the VRchat, Tilia news.

Medhue Simoni: Pretty cool.

Leviathan Linden: Hello!

Rider Linden: I used to have a cat who would insist that there was something under my keyboard.

Inara Breen: :)

dantia Gothly: Hello

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Dan.

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Vir.

Medhue Simoni: I won't create there tho, lol

Vir Linden: Hi folks!

Cube Republic: I just had two cats move in

Cube Republic: Hi vir

Monstaar Mama: Afternoon Vir!

Sasy Scarborough: hi Vir

Inara Breen: One I mine reckons the keyboard is just a bed in disguise

Darkover Tone: lol

Monstaar Mama: yep!

Cosmic Linden: Hello folks

Sasy Scarborough: congrats to everyone on the launch of that :)

Sasy Scarborough: hi DaveP

dantia Gothly: Hi there. :)

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, davep.

Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Atlas.

Sasy Scarborough: laughs

Cosmic Linden: SL problems

Rider Linden: Water was so good we decided to draw it twice.

Monstaar Mama: Nice

Sasy Scarborough: yay DaveP and congrats to you and your team ♥

animats: Someone should get Sparrow Linden down from the sky.

Vir Linden: Congrats!

Leviathan Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Game_control

Sasy Scarborough: hi

Sasy Scarborough: we hear you now

Sasy Scarborough: hi Garfield

dantia Gothly: ty Leviathan.

Medhue Simoni: remapping too?

Sasy Scarborough: JOE

TreesBreeze: have friends that do nya ΦωΦ

polysail: I've been asked to ~ on occasion, but the primary problems facing vehicle design is vehicle cohesion while objects are rotating, not input dynamics.

polysail: Most games have a key binding menu

Medhue Simoni: when seated

TreesBreeze: nya... there nya so many custom actions a controller button might do...

dantia Gothly: I wonder if thats related to the interpolation issue in mouse look.

dantia Gothly: with attached moving linksets

Medhue Simoni: or trigger an emote

Cube Republic: thats true like a FPP

polysail: What about first person mode

Cube Republic: FSP

Cube Republic: FPS lol

polysail: game controller should definitely affect that

polysail: even if you're not sitting on your "equipped" item.

polysail: Right but

dantia Gothly: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234368

Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234368

polysail: if you're doing game controller input

audio recording time mark 9:34

polysail: Right I thought that was already a thing ~

Medhue Simoni: So everything outside of avatar movement

animats: Camera control?

TreesBreeze: joystick_axis = llGetPreferredInput("accelerate");

TreesBreeze: dunno nya ΦωΦ

polysail: I guess where I'm struggling here

Medhue Simoni: Maybe if I wanted to embody an npc?

polysail: is understanding how LSL inputs differ from avatar control inputs

polysail: don't LSL commands already recognize Left Key Press Etc

Istauri Arai: Doesn't understand axis or controller buttons

ostiabs: Am I reading correctly that this is digital controller input with no analog input available? I'll have to find my SNES controllers.

Monstaar Mama: Hrm

Cube Republic: force feedback?

audio recording time mark 13:24

polysail: So ... what you're asking about isn't a button remaking issue. It's what to do with non-binary input values?

Medhue Simoni: woohoo better sex toys, lol

TreesBreeze: the latency on using server to control force feedback would not be so good...

ostiabs: People are definitely going to plug in an xbox controller and expect to be able to aim.

Istauri Arai: Would still be better than nothing

Leviathan Linden: latency wouldn't be worse than current control() event.

polysail: At the moment scripts function based off of action.

polysail: why woudl a script care what the button mapping is specifically?

polysail: Like ?

Istauri Arai: So it can tell people what button to press for what function

animats: If you let people configure it in the viewer, everybody will have it different. If you let people configure it in the object's LSL, every object will do it different.

animats: We need a best practices document before everybody does it different.

polysail: Is a scripter going to have to write a different solution for an PS Square Button or an Xbox A Button?

Sasy Scarborough: depends on the subject :)

Sasy Scarborough: that is usually me

Rider Linden: Sometimes they can be QUITE vocal.

Sasy Scarborough: also me

Medhue Simoni: lol

Darkover Tone: lol

Istauri Arai: No voice transcripts if you're not typing!

Istauri Arai: I would try and keep it as standardised as possible and not weirdly arbitrary and disconnected from other platforms

Istauri Arai: SL has a bad habit of naming things strangely compared to other engines/programs

Darkover Tone: agree

Sasy Scarborough: lol

TreesBreeze: llRegisterButton(BUTTON_1, "Fire lasers") llRegisterAxis(TRIGGER_L, "Move crane forward");

TreesBreeze: then in preferences

TreesBreeze: these would show up

TreesBreeze: with those names

Medhue Simoni: a visual menu

polysail: I don't understand the need for vehicle specific controls

polysail: instead of a global remapping

TreesBreeze: yes

Medhue Simoni: what about mobile?

audio recording time mark 22:00

Medhue Simoni: lol

Kyle Linden: Like pairing your PS controller to your iPhone Medhue?

Monstaar Mama: Why

Rider Linden: O.o

Monstaar Mama: LOL

TreesBreeze: ΦωΦ

dantia Gothly: I've had some strange behavior with masked gradient textures in PBR, I'm curious if anyone else has had a chance to play around with them.

Medhue Simoni: It's all new, I'm just thinking.

Monstaar Mama: My boss keeps telling me that she gets major glitches when going between land and water in PBR. Only saying this because she's poking me to mention it, I have no experience with the PBR yet.

Darkover Tone: vehicle specific seems too restrictive, standard global remapping leaves more options that we can't predict initially?

Monstaar Mama: I'm just an animator

Darkover Tone: glitches?

Sasy Scarborough: simple to start and grow from there maybe

dantia Gothly: if you walk into the water with non-transparent water you lose controls lol

Darkover Tone: o?

Darkover Tone: =o

Darkover Tone: i'm just seeing visual issues

Atlas Linden: Mira, is this what you're referring to? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234759

Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234759

Sasy Scarborough: lol

Darkover Tone: i guess the dynamic rendering as you cam around and the lighting changes, it seems mostly to be a negative thing....i mostly notice it when being on the water and camming boat level....everything turns super overcast looking, it's super depressing :(

Cosmic Linden: XD

TreesBreeze: /me nod

animats: The sun is still too dim in PBR.

Monstaar Mama: @Atlas I'm not sure. I'll forward these to Teager and our scripter. Again I'm not nearly as technical as you guys are.

Atlas Linden: All good. Please ask them to file a jira if they believe it's something else

TreesBreeze: nya

TreesBreeze: if we do support custom names

Monstaar Mama: Knowing our scripter, if she hasn't already she will.

TreesBreeze: the viewer should cache Nyany remapping the user does

Runitai Linden: @Joe sun brightness range is going to be constrained until we get into GLTF phase 2 and support for GLTF defined lights that are on-spec

Sasy Scarborough: Cosmic and Terrain

audio recording time mark 29:00

TreesBreeze: ฅ/ᐠ｡ᆽ｡ᐟ \

Monstaar Mama: omg so cute

Sasy Scarborough: Cosmic looks like Atlas's lunch

Atlas Linden: Nomnom

Sasy Scarborough: lol

Kyle Linden: o.O

Sasy Scarborough: excited

TreesBreeze: /me looks down nyat the pixels on the floor

Runitai Linden: @Darkover yeah, the sky is bright and the sun itself isn't in that snapshot, and exposure is correcting for the bright sky and water and directly lit stuff is being dimmed down

Runitai Linden: getting it all into physical light units is a task for phase 2 when we start looking at supporting full GLTF scenes including punctual lights

Wulfie Reanimator: Hiding online status

Darkover Tone: and that will hopefully get us back to happy sunny days lol?

Garfield Linden: I believe we were just talking about that in internal feature triage

Istauri Arai: That would be very handy

Rider Linden: I'm sure there is a feature request for that that we've accepted in the recent past.

Darkover Tone: and also what i posted a bit earlier [13:27:12] (You): i guess the dynamic rendering as you cam around and the lighting changes, it seems mostly to be a negative thing....i mostly notice it when being on the water and camming boat level....everything turns super overcast looking, it's super depressing :(

Rider Linden: /me wants it.

dantia Gothly: https://gyazo.com/228aa4ab2e2cbf22a6c8bc146ca0f35c

TreesBreeze: log in pay sim rent log off

Istauri Arai: Some people take it very personally

Runitai Linden: @Darkover not automatically -- the core issue is that the existing sun and sky system wasn't built with physical units in mind, so you'll have to tune your sky settings to get what you want

Darkover Tone: "appearing offline"

Wulfie Reanimator: "Appearing offline" is a very common feature in other chat programs like Steam/Discord/Slack

Runitai Linden: (you can disable the adjustment to HDR and turn off auto exposure if you apply a sky that was saved wit hthe PBR viewer with Reflection Probe Ambiance set to zero)

Darkover Tone: i tried playing with the settings, nothing seems to help really

Darkover Tone: tried that too

Leviathan Linden: "login offline" is not the best term I think. Maybe "login incognito" or ... something else?

Darkover Tone: no joy, things look very depressing

TreesBreeze: it is probably more important for creators than the general public. I don't think I'd use it that much, but there nya times when it would be nice

Istauri Arai: You would need it before you log in or everyone would see you appear and disappear

Istauri Arai: You'd need to be able to do it at login and while already online

Darkover Tone: in general it seems to be more of an issue when over water than over land

Runitai Linden: @Darkover if you file a jira with the location, I can take a look at that specific sky setting and see if anything jumps out as odd with it

audio recording time mark 35:30

Rider Linden: I was just looking for the feature request.

animats: I've seen "Offline" from friends when we're standing face to face.

Rider Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234653

Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234653

Darkover Tone: ok ty! should i tag you in the jira?

Rider Linden: Found it.

Runitai Linden: @Darkover sure thing

Darkover Tone: kk :)

Wulfie Reanimator: Leviathan, some apps phrase it as "appear offline" or "invisible." Incognito works too.

Darkover Tone: "appear offline" seems easiest for all to understand

Sasy Scarborough: it does

Rider Linden: The IK was what was blocking me.

Istauri Arai: Appear offline is the description I've heard before

Medhue Simoni: You kind of have unlimited animation layering now

animats: LL promotional material shows people holding hands. Try to do that in-world.

Darkover Tone: with invisible they'll expect the avie to be invis too ::D

TreesBreeze: I thought it's stuck behind nyall the heirachy stuff :3

polysail: we already have foot IK in animations

polysail: ... that's already part of SL

Signal Linden: I want to be dragged like a ragdoll behind a running horse, that'd be pretty cool

Medhue Simoni: You can do that now

dantia Gothly: @_@

Wulfie Reanimator: But only for built-in animations, not AOs or other animations.

Sasy Scarborough: lol Signal

polysail: it's very limited

polysail: but it exists

Istauri Arai: You can do it with other animations but it's hacky

Istauri Arai: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-230329

Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-230329

Wulfie Reanimator: It works with mesh avatars/bento legs

Darkover Tone: for horse peeps it's a thing

audio recording time mark 40:20

Runitai Linden: /ao off

animats: A good first step would be a way to get avatar dimensions back to scripts.

Darkover Tone: future project?

Rider Linden: There are some of the basic avatar dimensions available to a script. llGetVisualParams

ostiabs: Has anyone ever looked at using a LEAP plugin to create a mod manager? Something that would allow extending the default viewer without having to self compile?

dantia Gothly: your bounding box is a cube, getagentsize returns that value spot on but without the hover offset info.

dantia Gothly: hitbox*

ostiabs: A lot of what I'm hearing discussed may be better handled by individual communities creating their own mods.

Darkover Tone: some global framework to make it easier and consistent across the board sounds more future proof than everyone doing their own thing

Darkover Tone: also easier for new residents to deal with?

ostiabs: Every other game ever made would disagree.

Darkover Tone: yeh idk, that could be a separate discussion lol

ostiabs: Nah, we'll just do it and tell you about it later. More our speed.

Darkover Tone: not talking about a closed, locked system, but something to build on and reference, being flexible

Sasy Scarborough: :)

Vir Linden: osti, yes, that is something we're interested in. Some discussion lately about viewer-side scripting which that could be part of

Darkover Tone: /me whistles for their horse.

audio recording time mark 46:00

Vir Linden: viewer-side scripting probably a topic for a future meeting

Sasy Scarborough: yes please

Cube Republic: touch that sausage at the buffet

Darkover Tone: would be so amazing

Istauri Arai: yeah!

Istauri Arai: Would that allow us to play animations as they download rather than having to wait for the asset?

Istauri Arai: Because that's one of the big things that leaves us all desynced

Sasy Scarborough: whispers: :)

Wulfie Reanimator: What kind of support does GLTF provide for animation streaming?

Wulfie Reanimator: I gotcha, thanks

dantia Gothly: it has shape keys

TreesBreeze: shape keys /ᐠ. ｡.ᐟ\ᵐᵉᵒʷˎˊ˗

Istauri Arai: shape keeeeeeeeeeys

dantia Gothly: we could really use those.

Medhue Simoni: imagine that on avatars, lol

dantia Gothly: yeah

dantia Gothly: I am

Istauri Arai: I imagine it daily :U

dantia Gothly: every day

Monstaar Mama: So much potential fun TuT

TreesBreeze: avatar scale factor ΦωΦ

dantia Gothly: I want more animation @_@

dantia Gothly: animated projectors

Sasy Scarborough: actually paint in pathways etc will be amazing

Istauri Arai: Not right now we don't

dantia Gothly: animated particles.

dantia Gothly: yes

Istauri Arai: Actually painting would be super amazing

Istauri Arai: .0625

dantia Gothly: painting path decals on PBR terrain

Darkover Tone: ooo

Medhue Simoni: It would be amazing, especialy with normals

dantia Gothly: With an animated light projector I could fake caustics in a room.

Cube Republic: yum

Istauri Arai: Triplanar!

Monstaar Mama: Yaaaaay Triplanar

audio recording time mark 54:50

Ifrit Skytower: could we ever be able to paint/cut parts out of the terrain, so we could add meshes/caves/underground etc objects in the holes?

Monstaar Mama: /me dances

Monstaar Mama: 2034

dantia Gothly: add some volumetric lighting.

Monstaar Mama: XD

TreesBreeze: caves >:3

Camera Lock HUD: Camera free.

Sasy Scarborough: lol

Medhue Simoni: There will always be something to cry about, lol

dantia Gothly: cry about?

Rider Linden: The golfers will come after us...

Darkover Tone: would it be estates only and not main land?

Monstaar Mama: Oh no the golfers

Istauri Arai: lol

dantia Gothly: is there voice conversation going on I can't hear?

Istauri Arai: do it

Istauri Arai: Yes Dantia

Runitai Linden: ya

Rider Linden: Yes, Dantia

dantia Gothly: aasfoujqnefojkq

Istauri Arai: the lindens have been talking on voice

Istauri Arai: for the whole meeting

dantia Gothly: what a waste of time

Darkover Tone: residents can talk too though

TreesBreeze: can we finish that feature i want moving water ΦωΦ

Monstaar Mama: Lol Dantia gj

Istauri Arai: lol

Darkover Tone: why do people get so mad, couldn't even tell them that there might be a video of it...

Darkover Tone: moving water!

Sasy Scarborough: just do ittttt

Darkover Tone: o Dantia, there should be a video of this meeting posted so you can catch up if you want

polysail: What's the difference between "Extrusion" and Heightmap?

dantia Gothly: did someone respond to my masking question. if you did I missed it.

Ifrit Skytower: https://i.imgur.com/eJExMHE.png

Istauri Arai: Exactly like that

Monstaar Mama: @ Dantia, I didn't see anything. Go ahead and bring it up again!

Istauri Arai: that would be great!

dantia Gothly: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234728

Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234728

Ifrit Skytower: down to 20,000 leagues

Kyle Linden: terrain curtains ;)

dantia Gothly: https://gyazo.com/228aa4ab2e2cbf22a6c8bc146ca0f35c

dantia Gothly: this

Medhue Simoni: Nice avatar Dan!!!

Dan Linden: dantia, I've been looking at it, and it repros sometimes for me. I've been trying to figure out why

Runitai Linden: @dantia looking

Monstaar Mama: Oh boy that looks fun.

Monstaar Mama: I love graphics issues

dantia Gothly: LOL

animats: You can see the underside of terrain at the edge of the world.

dantia Gothly: sorry dave

dantia Gothly: I broke more stuff

dantia Gothly: already did

Vir Linden: That's very cool

Atlas Linden: Keep the jiras coming dantia :P

Monstaar Mama: fun

Monstaar Mama: TuT

dantia Gothly: yes

Leviathan Linden: It sounded to me like Sasy and DaveP were describing the same solution: add triangles so the terrain boundary shows as a cliff (extrusion) to zero rather than being able to see the underside of the terrain.

Monstaar Mama: Are you excited for bugs?

animats: Bye all!

Monstaar Mama: :D

Nya Blackwood: thank you for the meeting :3

Istauri Arai: Thanks all!

Signal Linden: Adios, folks

TreesBreeze: haze (Φ ᆺ Φ)

Medhue Simoni: Thanks Lindens!!

Rider Linden: Thank you everyone.

Monstaar Mama: Great meeting!! Thank you so much guys!!

Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Vir.

TreesBreeze: see nyaaaa

Monstaar Mama: byyeeee

Atlas Linden: tc all!

Grip Reaper: bye bye

dantia Gothly: make sure to decompress from all the work you've done guys

Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Lindens.

Rider Linden: Pluk

Medhue Simoni: lol

Leviathan Linden: The next meeting would be the 21st I think. Some Lindens should still be at work on that date.