Difference between revisions of "Open Source Meeting/2007-11-01"

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* VWR-2906 LLMozLib source code is out of date and version available for download is not what Lindens are building with. (this seems to be a simple documentation issue to the correct location)
* VWR-2906 LLMozLib source code is out of date and version available for download is not what Lindens are building with. (this seems to be a simple documentation issue to the correct location)
* ...
** Passed on to the LLMozLib maintainer --[[User:Soft Linden|Soft Linden]] 05:24, 31 October 2007 (PDT)
Perhapses we can expand on this to talk about LLMozLib in general, HTML on a prim, alternative embedded browsers such as Dillo.  
 
* Is OpenAJAX (license, scope, legal, etc) compatible with LL workflow. In consideration of AjaxLife, it does appear to be at least in scope of the AWG. If we do it similar to AjaxLife, the OpenAjax component would go right into the open source viewer or a proxy. Currently, Katherine has hosted that part as a service.
:* Link: [http://vwinterop.wikidot.com/forum/t-25119/openajax-member-and-ip-agreement#post-63513 OpenAJAX thread at vwinterop]
 
== Transcript ==
 
* [14:06] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  well, let's get started
* [14:06] [[User:Prospero Linden|Prospero Linden]]:  The *root* cause, of course, is the ellipticity of the Earth's orbit. Perhaps we could do something about that.
* [14:06] [[User:Q Linden|Q Linden]]:  esp annoying when people futz with it without thinking of the consequences
* [14:06] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Even when my kids were small it wasn't that great.
* [14:07] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  first topic: llmozlib
* [14:07] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  If we fix earth's orbit we'll all fall off
* [14:07] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  I'm surprised more aren't here for that
* [14:07] [[User:Prospero Linden|Prospero Linden]]:  Wyn : fix-unbreak, not fix-put in one position :)
* [14:08] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  LOL
* [14:08] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Who says it's broken?
* [14:08] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  I'm hoping to finish up early so I can get back to publishing latest llmozlib source :)
* [14:08] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  Soft is not here, should we go with t.... all cool *wink*
* [14:08] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  So, I mean if the Earth wasn't what it was all loopsided and weird with weather, where would we be?
* [14:08] [[User:Q Linden|Q Linden]]:  doesn't want to give up seasons and eclipses
* [14:09] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  we are looking at abstracting things so that alternate html implementations would be possible
* [14:09] [[User:Prospero Linden|Prospero Linden]]:  Q : seasons aren't from ellipticity!
* [14:09] [[User:Prospero Linden|Prospero Linden]]:  realizes he's not on topic :)
* [14:09] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  Callum may weigh in on the list with more....there's not much to say without him
* [14:09] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  idles so everyone else can get on topic.
* [14:09] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  use the is a way to move forward on llmozlib
* [14:10] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  he actually did a little bit of investigation of webkit a while back
* [14:10] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  *that is a way
* [14:10] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  (super preliminary investigation)
* [14:10] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  [http://lists.macosforge.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2007-July/002198.html]
* [14:10] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  The main issue is the screen refresh, correct?
* [14:10] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  I believe so
* [14:11] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  That with the current model of mozlib itself that demands control of plug-ins and html apps and objects
* [14:12] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  link to agenda, btw: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
* [14:12] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  *That's
* [14:12] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  so, i would have a question if the abstraction would allow the the model with the refresh still within llmozlib context to allow an interface to components outside of the screen refresh context.
* [14:13] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  (in general)
* [14:14] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  I don't have an answer to that, and probably don't have much more to say on this topic. anyone else?
* [14:15] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  Sorry, not my area.
* [14:16] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  so, when we have a little more work done in this area, I'll see if I can't gather the right devs to come talk about this
* [14:16] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  cool!
* [14:17] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  next?
* [14:17] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  OpenAjax.
* [14:17] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  hmmm...did this get any discussion on sldev?
* [14:18] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  It's more in vwinterop right now. I had come up in several discussions and direct and indirect ways. It looks best to consider this more directly.
* [14:18] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Incoming.
* [14:19] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  *It has
* [14:19] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  has lazy fingers today
* [14:19] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  Consider the llmozlib example, it would allow features wanted by llmozlib in a easier fashion.
* [14:20] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  I'd imagine it would be hard for Katherine herself to be here to speak about the details
* [14:21] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  this looks like a legal agreement
* [14:21] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Katherine who?
* [14:21] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  Berry
* [14:21] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  I asked myself, can I sign that doc
* [14:22] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  Katharine unfortunately isn't old enough to log into the main grid
* [14:22] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  Too bad we couldn't pipe her in somehow.
* [14:22] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  =)
* [14:23] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  I don't know enough about OpenAjax to speak to it.
* [14:24] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  was there a specific question for Linden lab here?
* [14:24] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  Is it possible to have a legal eagle to speak more directly about the details of the position, like maybe run over the terms with the an OpenAjax member
* [14:26] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  Personally, I ask if one signs a LL agreement and one signs an OpenAjax agreement, if there is any conflict of interest?
* [14:26] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  that's something you'd need to ask your lawyer
* [14:27] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  hello everybody
* [14:27] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  'Evening
* [14:27] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  mmhmm, yes, could you present that question to LL legal dept =)
* [14:28] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  i could send it to license@lindenlab
* [14:28] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  figured here was the best place to get a rough consensus
* [14:28] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  we can't act as your lawyer
* [14:28] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  what question?
* [14:28] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  You could send the question above to licensing@lindenlab.com, but the answer would be the same: ask your lawyer.
* [14:28] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  We cannot give you legal advice or interpret other organization's icenses for you.
* [14:29] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  hmm... let me clarify... what if i'm not the one that actually signs it
* [14:29] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  could a Liden employee sign it
* [14:29] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  *Linden
* [14:29] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  Sign what?
* [14:29] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  [http://www.openajax.org/process/OpenAjax%20Members%20Agreement%20Final%2020060816.pdf]
* [14:30] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Recourse to lawyers should be the last act of desperation. Only in the US is it seen as part of normal daily affairs.
* [14:31] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  reads link...
* [14:31] [[User:Q Linden|Q Linden]]:  it's not here either, it's just that we all get in trouble if we try to give legal advice, so we have to tell you to check with YOUR lawyer.
* [14:32] [[User:Tillie Ariantho|Tillie Ariantho]]:  Did I already mention the US legal system sucks totally? .P
* [14:32] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  ok....I think I understand what the issue is.
* [14:32] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Even checking with your lawyers won't help. Along comes an SCO, and any preplanning with lawyers goes out the window.
* [14:32] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  My legal council suggest a entity signage, but that is just from my position.
* [14:32] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  the group spawned from IBM's original meeting is starting to have conversations on a separate wiki
* [14:33] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  part of that conversation was "hey, what agreement should we use to collaborate"
* [14:33] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  Let me rephrase -- Dz, you want to know if Linden Lab has any intention of joining the OpenAjax Alliance?
* [14:33] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  the openajax license was proposed as a possible license for that group to use
* [14:33] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  since this is the first I've personally seen of this, I can't comment on it now
* [14:34] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  liana, as a proposal ... i'm not in the position to make any contractual position on it at the moment
* [14:35] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  anyway, I think there's not much more for this group to discuss. I may have something mroe to say on this front next week
* [14:35] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  I appreciate the consideration. =)
* [14:35] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  =)
* [14:35] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  I suggest that topic gets moved to some legal group, Open source is not about keeping lawyers wallets well fed.
* [14:36] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  k....we're through the posted agenda
* [14:36] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  yep, done half hour early =)
* [14:36] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  anything else, or should I get back to working on the llmozlib stuff?
* [14:36] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  almost
* [14:36] [[User:Sabina Stenvaag|Sabina Stenvaag]]:  i just come here to look at all yer profiles--really--this is way over my head--but it gives me neat-o stuff to research on my own!
* [14:36] [[User:Sabina Stenvaag|Sabina Stenvaag]]:  thanks for lettin me eaves drop!
* [14:36] [[User:Sabina Stenvaag|Sabina Stenvaag]]:  .
* [14:37] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  Nothing from me.
* [14:37] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  Sabrina: factoid for your research: Everett Linden's oasis water is not swimmable :-)))
* [14:37] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  thank you for being here
* [14:37] [[User:Rob Linden|Rob Linden]]:  k.....thanks everyone for coming
* [14:37] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  ProfilePeerer!
* [14:37] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  We just tried after his meeting about groups :-)
* [14:38] [[User:Sabina Stenvaag|Sabina Stenvaag]]:  hee hee TP failed too---try 2
* [14:38] [[User:Liana Linden|Liana Linden]]:  Bye, all.
* [14:38] [[User:Dzonatas Sol|Dzonatas Sol]]:  woot, until next week... have a beautiful day everyone
* [14:38] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]:  See you Liana
* [14:38] [[User:Wyn Galbraith|Wyn Galbraith]]:  thinks something is going down soon.
* [14:38] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  bye lian
* [14:38] [[User:Q Linden|Q Linden]]:  see ya
* [14:38] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]:  liana*

Latest revision as of 05:12, 2 November 2007

< Open Source Meeting


Open source meeting - Thursday, 2pm PT.

Teleport to the Linden Open Source Project headquarters.


Agenda

  • VWR-2906 LLMozLib source code is out of date and version available for download is not what Lindens are building with. (this seems to be a simple documentation issue to the correct location)
    • Passed on to the LLMozLib maintainer --Soft Linden 05:24, 31 October 2007 (PDT)

Perhapses we can expand on this to talk about LLMozLib in general, HTML on a prim, alternative embedded browsers such as Dillo.

  • Is OpenAJAX (license, scope, legal, etc) compatible with LL workflow. In consideration of AjaxLife, it does appear to be at least in scope of the AWG. If we do it similar to AjaxLife, the OpenAjax component would go right into the open source viewer or a proxy. Currently, Katherine has hosted that part as a service.

Transcript

  • [14:06] Rob Linden: well, let's get started
  • [14:06] Prospero Linden: The *root* cause, of course, is the ellipticity of the Earth's orbit. Perhaps we could do something about that.
  • [14:06] Q Linden: esp annoying when people futz with it without thinking of the consequences
  • [14:06] Wyn Galbraith: Even when my kids were small it wasn't that great.
  • [14:07] Rob Linden: first topic: llmozlib
  • [14:07] Wyn Galbraith: If we fix earth's orbit we'll all fall off
  • [14:07] Dzonatas Sol: I'm surprised more aren't here for that
  • [14:07] Prospero Linden: Wyn : fix-unbreak, not fix-put in one position :)
  • [14:08] Wyn Galbraith: LOL
  • [14:08] Wyn Galbraith: Who says it's broken?
  • [14:08] Rob Linden: I'm hoping to finish up early so I can get back to publishing latest llmozlib source :)
  • [14:08] Dzonatas Sol: Soft is not here, should we go with t.... all cool *wink*
  • [14:08] Wyn Galbraith: So, I mean if the Earth wasn't what it was all loopsided and weird with weather, where would we be?
  • [14:08] Q Linden: doesn't want to give up seasons and eclipses
  • [14:09] Rob Linden: we are looking at abstracting things so that alternate html implementations would be possible
  • [14:09] Prospero Linden: Q : seasons aren't from ellipticity!
  • [14:09] Prospero Linden: realizes he's not on topic :)
  • [14:09] Rob Linden: Callum may weigh in on the list with more....there's not much to say without him
  • [14:09] Wyn Galbraith: idles so everyone else can get on topic.
  • [14:09] Dzonatas Sol: use the is a way to move forward on llmozlib
  • [14:10] Rob Linden: he actually did a little bit of investigation of webkit a while back
  • [14:10] Dzonatas Sol: *that is a way
  • [14:10] Rob Linden: (super preliminary investigation)
  • [14:10] Rob Linden: [1]
  • [14:10] Dzonatas Sol: The main issue is the screen refresh, correct?
  • [14:10] Rob Linden: I believe so
  • [14:11] Dzonatas Sol: That with the current model of mozlib itself that demands control of plug-ins and html apps and objects
  • [14:12] Rob Linden: link to agenda, btw: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
  • [14:12] Dzonatas Sol: *That's
  • [14:12] Dzonatas Sol: so, i would have a question if the abstraction would allow the the model with the refresh still within llmozlib context to allow an interface to components outside of the screen refresh context.
  • [14:13] Dzonatas Sol: (in general)
  • [14:14] Rob Linden: I don't have an answer to that, and probably don't have much more to say on this topic. anyone else?
  • [14:15] Liana Linden: Sorry, not my area.
  • [14:16] Rob Linden: so, when we have a little more work done in this area, I'll see if I can't gather the right devs to come talk about this
  • [14:16] Dzonatas Sol: cool!
  • [14:17] Dzonatas Sol: next?
  • [14:17] Rob Linden: OpenAjax.
  • [14:17] Rob Linden: hmmm...did this get any discussion on sldev?
  • [14:18] Dzonatas Sol: It's more in vwinterop right now. I had come up in several discussions and direct and indirect ways. It looks best to consider this more directly.
  • [14:18] Wyn Galbraith: Incoming.
  • [14:19] Dzonatas Sol: *It has
  • [14:19] Dzonatas Sol: has lazy fingers today
  • [14:19] Dzonatas Sol: Consider the llmozlib example, it would allow features wanted by llmozlib in a easier fashion.
  • [14:20] Dzonatas Sol: I'd imagine it would be hard for Katherine herself to be here to speak about the details
  • [14:21] Rob Linden: this looks like a legal agreement
  • [14:21] Wyn Galbraith: Katherine who?
  • [14:21] Dzonatas Sol: Berry
  • [14:21] Dzonatas Sol: I asked myself, can I sign that doc
  • [14:22] Rob Linden: Katharine unfortunately isn't old enough to log into the main grid
  • [14:22] Wyn Galbraith: Too bad we couldn't pipe her in somehow.
  • [14:22] Tillie Ariantho: =)
  • [14:23] Rob Linden: I don't know enough about OpenAjax to speak to it.
  • [14:24] Rob Linden: was there a specific question for Linden lab here?
  • [14:24] Dzonatas Sol: Is it possible to have a legal eagle to speak more directly about the details of the position, like maybe run over the terms with the an OpenAjax member
  • [14:26] Dzonatas Sol: Personally, I ask if one signs a LL agreement and one signs an OpenAjax agreement, if there is any conflict of interest?
  • [14:26] Rob Linden: that's something you'd need to ask your lawyer
  • [14:27] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
  • [14:27] Morgaine Dinova: 'Evening
  • [14:27] Dzonatas Sol: mmhmm, yes, could you present that question to LL legal dept =)
  • [14:28] Dzonatas Sol: i could send it to license@lindenlab
  • [14:28] Dzonatas Sol: figured here was the best place to get a rough consensus
  • [14:28] Rob Linden: we can't act as your lawyer
  • [14:28] Rex Cronon: what question?
  • [14:28] Liana Linden: You could send the question above to licensing@lindenlab.com, but the answer would be the same: ask your lawyer.
  • [14:28] Liana Linden: We cannot give you legal advice or interpret other organization's icenses for you.
  • [14:29] Dzonatas Sol: hmm... let me clarify... what if i'm not the one that actually signs it
  • [14:29] Dzonatas Sol: could a Liden employee sign it
  • [14:29] Dzonatas Sol: *Linden
  • [14:29] Liana Linden: Sign what?
  • [14:29] Dzonatas Sol: [2]
  • [14:30] Morgaine Dinova: Recourse to lawyers should be the last act of desperation. Only in the US is it seen as part of normal daily affairs.
  • [14:31] Liana Linden: reads link...
  • [14:31] Q Linden: it's not here either, it's just that we all get in trouble if we try to give legal advice, so we have to tell you to check with YOUR lawyer.
  • [14:32] Tillie Ariantho: Did I already mention the US legal system sucks totally? .P
  • [14:32] Rob Linden: ok....I think I understand what the issue is.
  • [14:32] Morgaine Dinova: Even checking with your lawyers won't help. Along comes an SCO, and any preplanning with lawyers goes out the window.
  • [14:32] Dzonatas Sol: My legal council suggest a entity signage, but that is just from my position.
  • [14:32] Rob Linden: the group spawned from IBM's original meeting is starting to have conversations on a separate wiki
  • [14:33] Rob Linden: part of that conversation was "hey, what agreement should we use to collaborate"
  • [14:33] Liana Linden: Let me rephrase -- Dz, you want to know if Linden Lab has any intention of joining the OpenAjax Alliance?
  • [14:33] Rob Linden: the openajax license was proposed as a possible license for that group to use
  • [14:33] Rob Linden: since this is the first I've personally seen of this, I can't comment on it now
  • [14:34] Dzonatas Sol: liana, as a proposal ... i'm not in the position to make any contractual position on it at the moment
  • [14:35] Rob Linden: anyway, I think there's not much more for this group to discuss. I may have something mroe to say on this front next week
  • [14:35] Dzonatas Sol: I appreciate the consideration. =)
  • [14:35] Dzonatas Sol: =)
  • [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: I suggest that topic gets moved to some legal group, Open source is not about keeping lawyers wallets well fed.
  • [14:36] Rob Linden: k....we're through the posted agenda
  • [14:36] Dzonatas Sol: yep, done half hour early =)
  • [14:36] Rob Linden: anything else, or should I get back to working on the llmozlib stuff?
  • [14:36] Dzonatas Sol: almost
  • [14:36] Sabina Stenvaag: i just come here to look at all yer profiles--really--this is way over my head--but it gives me neat-o stuff to research on my own!
  • [14:36] Sabina Stenvaag: thanks for lettin me eaves drop!
  • [14:36] Sabina Stenvaag: .
  • [14:37] Liana Linden: Nothing from me.
  • [14:37] Morgaine Dinova: Sabrina: factoid for your research: Everett Linden's oasis water is not swimmable :-)))
  • [14:37] Dzonatas Sol: thank you for being here
  • [14:37] Rob Linden: k.....thanks everyone for coming
  • [14:37] Wyn Galbraith: ProfilePeerer!
  • [14:37] Morgaine Dinova: We just tried after his meeting about groups :-)
  • [14:38] Sabina Stenvaag: hee hee TP failed too---try 2
  • [14:38] Liana Linden: Bye, all.
  • [14:38] Dzonatas Sol: woot, until next week... have a beautiful day everyone
  • [14:38] Morgaine Dinova: See you Liana
  • [14:38] Wyn Galbraith: thinks something is going down soon.
  • [14:38] Rex Cronon: bye lian
  • [14:38] Q Linden: see ya
  • [14:38] Rex Cronon: liana*
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