User talk:Gordon Wendt

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I saw you were playing with Template:LSL Generic/request, it's a generic LSL template that can be used with functions, events and constants; not just functions. -- Strife Onizuka 13:57, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

• I tweaked the generic one to create a notice for the request page (since it's a single use item I didn't create a new template I just copied over my tweaked css to it) just to clarify to people that non of the functions on that page are active and are just proposed functions. Gordon Wendt 14:01, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

Employee Category

Heyas :-) Re: added Category:Linden Lab Employees not sure why this wasn't added before:
Char Linden removed the Category from Dusty's userpage some time ago. I don't know why, as there was no comment anywhere. -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, I don't feel like pre-emptively removing it again just because it's been removed before since he is a LL employee but if it's removed again then it's removed again. GW ^(T|C) -- 16:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It's possible that some Lindens are really contractors and aren't employees. -- Strife ^{(talk|contribs)} 17:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Linking localized versions

Heyas Gordon! :-)
Sorry for just undo-ing your change, though the German header shouldn't be in the English article. Furthest would be to have the English header {{Help|noMultiLang=*}} in there, though I think that LL doesn't want to have that one either. I hope we won't have to deal with this situation for long and that the Help Portal is soon merged into KB articles.
As of linking localized versions: I put together a list that's readable for a bot like Wiki, though I'm not able to fully deploy it, since it contains lots of LLO articles, which I'm not able to edit. I'll poke for some Linden help on this one, am meeting with Noelle on Wednesday and am hoping that the issue is resolved till the end of the week. I'd ask you to not create redirects until then, since it would then make it harder to do the linking in an automatted way. It's an ugly situation and I hoped that the KB wouldn't be announced on the blog until it's resolved... though well :-/ ...
-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to do header linking like we currently do with articles that have a articlename/es, articlename/de, etc.... article in the general help header, like the german version of the article seems to have done? There has to be a better way to do this. GW ^(T|C) -- 23:18, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure if I understood it (please correct me when I'm wrong), but when you're talking about the language bar:

That started as a work-around for the problem that the English articles happened to be outside of the Wiki. Instead of using the established templates for interwiki linking, we had to create something that is

• includable in all translated versions of an article in order to represent the right links without the need of updating each translated page
• linking into the parature KB

additionally, it seemed benefitting to also use this for documentation purposes. So I made Template:Kbl10n and the related subpages. It allows to wrap information in different styles, like language bar, table or other more exotic styles, like I need them to configure the Wiki bot for link fixes. E.g., when you look at the code of User:Zai Lynch/Sandbox/Temp, you'll notice that it only includes templates and that these are displaying the infos in the way I need them to create such a file. Same with this overview page. The language headers are the same template, just in another mode.

This approach was needed at the time it was made, but turned obsolete now. By now, we can use Template:Multi-lang and create redirects from <English name>/<ISO 639-1 code> to the localized page. Seems still more cumbersome than just adding links like [[de:German Name]] to the English page (etc), but offers other benefits that I wouldn't want to miss (like an update notification feature etc. ... "Just" need to properly document it and tell doc team how to use it).

To cut a long story short, Template:Multi-lang supports what we need to have localized articletitles while still having all benefits of a template over a stray link. If the Kbl10n templates will be replaced by multi-lang, or if they'll just wrap the info to then include multi-lang, is still to be decided by the localization team.

However, regardless of the way that's choosen, all English KB articles should point to their localized counterparts very soon. Like I said, I'm hoping to have it sorted till the end of the week. At least all localized pages are pointing to the Wiki version of the KB now (in the headers).

-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, the German version of the article has a help header so that needs to be dealt with, I'll assume that this is an unwritten LL rule not just you asserting your preference as an unwritten rule, if there aren't going to be help headers on KB articles then it needs to be made into a written rule and it needs to be applied to all languages of an article either with the header or without, I think with is better in the long run even if that means a lot of work, checking and implementing this could be done automatically with a bot. GW ^(T|C) -- 23:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh it's not my preference to seperate KB and Help Portal. It's exactly the opposit. I'd love to have them as close together as posible, since I feel somehow connected to it's creation and would like to see it bloom. The reason why the localized KBs got these, is historical again. The localized KBs were (and are) imported piece by piece, rather than having a complete bulk to cover all topics of SL. Therefor it seemed reasonable to connect localized KBs with localized portals, to have a greater resource of topics covered. So we merged categories. In order to still be able to distinguish KB articles from HP articles, KB articles end with (KB) in the title. Well most do... there are only a few which don't, since we might step away from that again in order to provide easier linkability (closing bracket in the end is not parsed correctly in most cases) and in order to sync it with the English counterpart. However, the localized KBs are using the same categories as the localized Help Portals. The KB pages also got merged in the Help Header. The English KB however has it's own categories now and doesn't share any content with the HP. I should have specified it better when I wrote it: It seems to me that it's an unwritten policy by the documentation team, to have the English KB articles not contain a Help header. However, we might back that up via the KB2Wiki mailing list. Though the localized KBs, which are under the hood of the localization team, got these currently merged. If this will stay the way it is, is an open question, and I actually doubt that it will stay. I know Noelle wants to have KB categories translated and we're currently waiting for this issue beeing resolved before work starts on it. As you see, there is much flow at the moment, since the situation is just changing very fast with the KB2Wiki import. At the moment, the header should stay at the localized version, since it is also a KB header, not just a "Help Portal"-header anymore.

The Kbl10n template used in that article and providing the actual linking tho, is independant from the Help Header. -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Ich habe ein Ticket als Typ „Knowledge Base Suggestions" eingereicht, es handelt sich hierbei jedoch um ein Problem für Support. Warum leiten Sie mein Ticket nicht weiter? was the article I was thinking of btw, I took the liberty of removing the help header per your unwritten rule although that breaks any ability to find the English version of the article, rules are rules apparently, especially when I can catch you on the fact that they don't make any sense :) GW ^(T|C) -- 00:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I thought so and I hope it makes somehow sense by reading the above. :-)

Am putting the header back in place.

-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Please keep me up to date on this if you can, if you guys figure out a better way to organize and link these articles it would be nice to know. GW ^(T|C) -- 06:40, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, will do :-) -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Short update: Simone is going to give me a helping hand and we'll try to battle the beast, starting in about 4 hours, using a clone of Template:Multi-lang. I guess you'll see it soon. I'm now to tired for many words and will drop dead to bed for 240mins of sleep. nini :-)

-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks good, hopefully it will link up properly with both subpaged translations and translations with their own page (even the ridiculously long German ones), can most of the linking of various articles be done by bot (as your test page shows) or is going to take up a lot of hand work as well? I really hope you are sleeping more than 14400 seconds a night. GW ^(T|C) -- 03:46, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I hope that it won't require any manual treatment, though beeing realistic: This import will have some flaws which we'll need to notice and correct in time. Though should go fine now, I hope. We'll have many bot runs as pages are also supposed to move from NAME_(KB) to NAME, treated with protection, etc. Let's hope it works as good as possible after the 2.5 hours of link tweaking and double checking yesterday...

Yeah, it happens that I'm occassionally sleeping longer. Not through this week though ^_^;

-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:35, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, all articles should be covered now... The English ones using language links via the sidebar, the localized ones still via the header. Will change that on Sunday so they all use the sidebar from now on.

As expected, we spotted sporadic fails. Nothing major tho. "Just" articles that somehow fell through the cracks. I'm not sure if I cought all (actually I'm pretty sure that I didn't) and will check again on Sunday (hardly free time till then). When you spot something really weird meanwhile, please let me know.

Greetz, -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: And something in the flagged revs seems to occassionatly interfer... Maybe cause they are still lacking initial review for the template change. Not sure yet and will investigate later. -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I thought you guys worked out most of the issues with flaggredrevs causing problems with templates on articles (sigh), I guess all we can do is grab them as we catch them and do useless reflagging and null editing to force updates, depending on the cause. GW ^(T|C) -- 21:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The problem seems to be only identified and a solution is suggested, but it's not yet solved. The solution would be, to be able to put templates under revision control as well. It's not possible at the moment, but I hope it will be soon... -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Seems to be something else. Template is reviewable... -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I really hope there's a better solution than flagging every template we need for review, I think that would be very burdensome. GW ^(T|C) -- 23:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

For reasons I'll keep off the public wiki (feel free to IM me if you really want to know) I'm no longer a reviewer so at least the flaggedrevs portion of this is outside of my area but I trust you'll find a good solution and I still have an interest in how articles are categorized and labelled. GW ^(T|C) -- 00:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed and I'd certainly be curious... Will poke you inworld on it (not tonight, just leaving for bed, though tomorrow).

@multi-lang problems: I don't want to claim that I fixed it, since I'm still not sure about the evils root, though they're at least working now. The only thing solving it seemed to be, to perform a real edit on the page (null edit, purge cache, etc. didn't work). I told Wiki to add a blank line in between the categorization part of the articles, then manually reviewed all ~400 edits. So the issue is fixed. What's still unfixed is, that we overlooked some LLO articles. They're still without multi-lang template, but that's on the agenda for the next time when Simone got a spare minute. Should be soonish and doesn't effect many articles that actually got a translation to link to. Think it's save to say that it's less than 5.

@categorization: category issue is still open... I'm sad that I'm swamped with stuff atm so I'm just cherry picking the stuff I like to do during me free time, leaving the rest to others. The category issue isn't on the "like" list atm... So I'm hoping for someone else to jump in before I'm going to be to annoyed by it and doing it on my own...

So far from me. Off to bed. Have a nice night! -- ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:13, 29 October 2009 (UTC)