Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-02-04

This meeting was held on February 04th, 2010

Agenda

• Discuss resolution of previous open items.
• Updates
  • Welcome to Falcon Linden the Havok developer.
  • All Linden Event last week.
  • 1.36.0 is in final testing now.
    • bug list: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&type=1&pid=10002&version=10568&sorter/field=issuekey&sorter/order=DESC
  • 1.36 rolls to AGNI next week.
  • Aditi inv mysql upgrade. Friday, Feb 5th @ 7AM.
  • Havok 7 testing is on the calendar
    • any takers on helping out early?
• Releases
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36
• Any other business
  • How do Parcel UUID's change llGetParcelDetails (PARCEL_DETAILS_ID) Can we test this really quick?

Meeting Minutes

• We went through the agenda
• Falcon talked about Havok 7
• Falcon answered Havok questions
• We introduced Ali Linden

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for February 04th, 2010:

• [15:00] Aisha Marshdevil: OSKAR!! :o
• [15:00] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Falcon Linden from parcel 'Server Beta Office Hours (in honor of Moon Metty)' at Morris 207, 249 due to parcel owner return.
• [15:00] Aisha Marshdevil: can i have like maybe 5 free prims on the land ? :c
• [15:00] Oskar Linden: big crowds today
• [15:00] Melfina Marshdevil: giggles
• [15:00] Oskar Linden: I like that
• [15:00] Ima Mechanique: Aisha, be quick several disappeared
• [15:00] Effy Khandr: whispers: hi everyone :)
• [15:01] Latif Khalifa: oskar fan club meetign? ;)
• [15:01] Oskar Linden: is lil here yet?
• [15:01] Oskar Linden: heh. I thnk there actually is a fan club now or so I hear from melfina
• [15:01] Ima Mechanique: eek, mean Oskar returning my prim
• [15:01] Oskar Linden: I am quite flattered
• [15:01] Aisha Marshdevil: she hosts it :P
• [15:01] Oskar Linden: here comes lil
• [15:01] Falcon Linden: no, it's me returning the prim I suspect since I'm trying to make room for my clone of Oskar's chair!
• [15:02] Oskar Linden: alright
• [15:02] Latif Khalifa: use copybot, easier that way :
• [15:02] Latif Khalifa: :P
• [15:02] Lil Linden: howdy all
• [15:02] Melfina Marshdevil: lil is here!
• [15:02] Seanas Alston: hello
• [15:02] Lares Carter: heya Lil :)
• [15:02] Oskar Linden: we are working from the agenda here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours#Agenda
• [15:02] Lil Linden: oskar, you've got some growth on your right hand
• [15:02] Oskar Linden: Let me first take a moment to introduce Falcon Linden
• [15:02] Milo Linden: lol
• [15:02] Oskar Linden: please introduce yourself falcon
• [15:03] Slworld Boa: Hi all
• [15:03] Oskar Linden: oh and milo!!! hey!
• [15:03] Milo Linden: waves
• [15:03] Ima Mechanique: lil, I think Oskar is taking up ventriloquism
• [15:03] Oskar Linden: heh
• [15:03] Lil Linden: lol
• [15:03] Oskar Linden: you there falcon?
• [15:03] Psi Merlin: Hi Lil
• [15:04] Oskar Linden: he must be shy
• [15:04] Oskar Linden: this is Falcon Linden
• [15:04] Aisha Marshdevil: OMG >.<!! i dont own my own prims? :c
• [15:04] Martyn Vantelli: Is he list!
• [15:04] Drew Dwi: xD he's trying to find a spot on your seat
• [15:04] Martyn Vantelli: lost*
• [15:04] Ima Mechanique: Oskar, he's busy trying to clone your chair
• [15:04] Lil Linden: waves to Psi
• [15:04] Melfina Marshdevil: Ohhhh yes
• [15:04] Melfina Marshdevil: here it is
• [15:04] Ima Mechanique: he has priorities ;-)
• [15:04] Oskar Linden: I think his vwr just crashed
• [15:04] Oskar Linden: haha
• [15:04] Milo Linden: oopsie
• [15:04] sensory Hax: looool
• [15:04] Oskar Linden: he's back
• [15:04] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: looool
• [15:05] Oskar Linden: so Falcon Linden has been with the Lab since last November
• [15:05] Ima Mechanique: See Falcon, that chair has more booby traps
• [15:05] Melfina Marshdevil: Join it or the gods shall smite you: secondlife:///app/group/7f6f80a5-6afe-772e-c9d4-c7d55c2c6275/about
• [15:05] Falcon Linden: That's getting annoying. Apparently there are parts of Oskar I shouldn't click.
• [15:05] Falcon Linden: I am a god.
• [15:05] Aisha Marshdevil: lol
• [15:05] Ima Mechanique: Falcon, that's true of everyone
• [15:05] Oskar Linden: so tell us a bit about yourself falcon
• [15:05] Seanas Alston: hehe
• [15:06] Falcon Linden: I already told everyone my dark secret of godliness...Beyond that, I'm joined Linden Lab from Havok, the physics engine company
• [15:06] Seanas Alston: thats incredible
• [15:06] Oskar Linden: we'll hear more from him when we get to that part of the agenda
• [15:06] Falcon Linden: I joined* (Much better when I speak english)
• [15:06] Ima Mechanique: ahh a target for blam.. er I mean physics questions
• [15:06] Falcon Linden: Oh, one more thing:
• [15:06] Oskar Linden: heh
• [15:07] Falcon Linden: I'm the Grinch. When you ask me for a feature, expect me to say "No". If I say yes, you get to feel extra special! :)
• [15:07] Latif Khalifa: intel not treating people right over at havok? ;)
• [15:07] Falcon Linden: Latif: Believe it or not, they stayed out of the way
• [15:07] Melfina Marshdevil: so we are getting this mythical havok 7.
• [15:07] Oskar Linden: calm down guys
• [15:07] Oskar Linden: agenda comes first
• [15:07] Oskar Linden:  :-)
• [15:07] Melfina Marshdevil: who has the chat log this time?
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: first item is the All Linden Event we had last week
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: pretty much every linden in the entire world was in SF
• [15:08] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, I got some buddies over at Intel, who work on virtual worlds, they also say havok remains pretty much sealed off ffrom them
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: for a week of fun and conferences
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: It was unprecedented
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: most of us met for the first time
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: I met Falcon there
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: I met Milo there for the first time
• [15:08] Falcon Linden: (Oskar is quite the character)
• [15:08] Oskar Linden: I am actually crashing in Lil's spare bedroom this week
• [15:08] Latif Khalifa: how drunk did you all get? ;)
• [15:09] Ima Mechanique: sounds like Linden Dating Service
• [15:09] Milo Linden: we cant remember
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: some more than other latif
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: but I don't drink and tell
• [15:09] Latif Khalifa: hehehe
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: it was an incredible week
• [15:09] Aisha Marshdevil: blah pointless.... :|
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: we all learned a lot about each other and the direction of Linden in 2010
• [15:09] Aisha Marshdevil: dont mind me just talking about my wear chair
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: we bought a new company
• [15:09] Ima Mechanique: hehe I don't drink, then do tell what everyone else did. it's more fun
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: I'm sure some of you saw that
• [15:09] Latif Khalifa: except if you have embarrasing pictures of them drunk on flickr ;)
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: they are in Sweden
• [15:09] Oskar Linden: called Avatars United
• [15:10] Oskar Linden: kinda like facebook for virtual identities
• [15:10] Seanas Alston: i havent seen no
• [15:10] Oskar Linden: pretty cool
• [15:10] Lil Linden: haha... no one's seen those pictures have they?? :)
• [15:10] Seanas Alston: not me
• [15:10] Lil Linden: *whew*
• [15:10] Melfina Marshdevil: your hiding them
• [15:10] Oskar Linden: those pictures will NOT get distributed lil
• [15:10] Seanas Alston: lol
• [15:10] Seanas Alston: i dont blame you
• [15:10] Oskar Linden: there was a party last thursday that was EPIC
• [15:10] Lil Linden: there is at least gem on flickr. finding it is left as an exercise for the reader
• [15:10] Oskar Linden: I have never seen more Lindens dancing in one room
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: heh
• [15:11] Melfina Marshdevil: heh really come on where are the photos?
• [15:11] Richard Untermeyer: did the room crash?
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: I remained clothed for the public portions of the evening I would like to point out
• [15:11] Falcon Linden: Some of them even danced well
• [15:11] Identity Euler: 300 Lindens?
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: we used a new class 10 server Richard
• [15:11] Richard Untermeyer: hehe
• [15:11] Falcon Linden: Richard: it got pretty laggy nonetheless
• [15:11] Melfina Marshdevil: class 10?!
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: with obvious havok improvments
• [15:11] Jonathan Yap: yea, how many Lindens are there?
• [15:11] Melfina Marshdevil: bah
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: 300+
• [15:11] Oskar Linden: it was a good time for all to focus on our goals and learn from each other
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: I hope to do it every year or quarter
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: not sure my body can handle it though
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: I am quite exhausted still
• [15:12] Seanas Alston: is class 10 going to be implemented into the main grid anytime soon lol that would be nice
• [15:12] Latif Khalifa: lol
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: I am kidding about the class 10's
• [15:12] Melfina Marshdevil: heh
• [15:12] Seanas Alston: lool
• [15:12] Melfina Marshdevil: we know
• [15:12] Seanas Alston: figured
• [15:12] Identity Euler: :D
• [15:12] Drew Dwi: class 3^10
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: we're years away from that anyway
• [15:12] Effy Khandr: next time in NL maybe....
• [15:12] Jonathan Yap: But there is a Class 7 in use on the main grid
• [15:12] Effy Khandr:  :)
• [15:12] Oskar Linden: so back to the topics at hand
• [15:13] Oskar Linden: 1.36.0 is in final testing now
• [15:13] Melfina Marshdevil: sim0001?
• [15:13] Oskar Linden: we are doing staging testing as we speak
• [15:13] Oskar Linden: stills eeing some L$ issues that we are working through
• [15:13] Melfina Marshdevil: Yeah I noticed that when I logged in
• [15:13] Latif Khalifa: my linden balance is loading...
• [15:13] Melfina Marshdevil: I created a group and it loaded
• [15:13] Oskar Linden: but we are confident that they will be worked out by the main deploy next week
• [15:14] Oskar Linden: 1.36 does contain all the latest sim crasher and fanciness
• [15:14] Melfina Marshdevil: O.o
• [15:14] Opensource Obscure: usually , how many days are there between code freeze and the moment when you start testing on aditi?
• [15:14] Oskar Linden: you guys need to stop being so efficient at finding ways to crash the simulators :-)
• [15:14] Latif Khalifa: 1.38 comes with all the new script goodies ;) do you have a timeline for that?
• [15:14] Oskar Linden: good question OO
• [15:14] Oskar Linden: usually less than a week
• [15:14] Melfina Marshdevil: we cant help that oskar. ^_^
• [15:14] Oskar Linden: we try to move fast
• [15:14] Opensource Obscure: 1.38 code freeze = half of feb. according to Babbage
• [15:14] Drew Dwi: lots of small changes rather than big ones I assume?
• [15:14] Seanas Alston: they is even a region called Crash Me thats for testing purposes
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: we are running on a 6 week cycle now
• [15:15] Latif Khalifa: that's cool
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: so barring anything unforeseen 1.38 will hit 6 weeks after 1.36
• [15:15] Opensource Obscure: so no Viewer 2.0 before 18-10 february i guess
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: no
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: vwr 2 public beta is end of feb
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: (I think)
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: that reminds me
• [15:15] Seanas Alston: interesting
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: we had a company wide demo of vwr 2
• [15:15] Latif Khalifa: but that's not server related
• [15:15] Oskar Linden: with 300 people
• [15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: I bet your using it right now
• [15:16] Drew Dwi: :o how'd that go :P
• [15:16] Oskar Linden: the demoer ent to ahern
• [15:16] Opensource Obscure: 1.38 includes support for Viewer 2.0 according to babbage
• [15:16] Ima Mechanique: is viewer 2 the one with scripting info included?
• [15:16] Oskar Linden: and let the entire company chat in voice to the residents there
• [15:16] Oskar Linden: it was awesome
• [15:17] Falcon Linden: Then they asked us "asl?"
• [15:17] Melfina Marshdevil: haha
• [15:17] Oskar Linden: I'm not super sure what all vwr 2
• [15:17] Oskar Linden: has
• [15:17] Falcon Linden: and called us newbs for having our mic open
• [15:17] Oskar Linden: I'm on a whole diff track
• [15:17] Oskar Linden: I have not even run it myself yet
• [15:18] Lil Linden: it's mostly like the regular viewer, but with a My Little Pony skin
• [15:18] Aisha Marshdevil: XD
• [15:18] Lil Linden: adds value to any meeting
• [15:18] Drew Dwi: coughs
• [15:18] Melfina Marshdevil: wows
• [15:18] Oskar Linden: so next week is 1.36.0 on agni. maybe 2 weeks after that we have some fixes for a 1.36.1
• [15:18] Melfina Marshdevil: alright
• [15:18] Milo Linden: lil i have the hello kitty skin, wanna swap
• [15:18] Oskar Linden: I'll get that up here as soon as possible and let you guys know what is going into it
• [15:18] Oskar Linden: big news for tomorrow morning
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: 7AM PST aditi is getting the mysql inv server upgraded
• [15:19] Melfina Marshdevil: mind leaking that news?
• [15:19] Techwolf Lupindo: Made it. Opensource metting ran over.
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: it will be down for at least 30 minutes
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: I just wanted you all to be made aware of that
• [15:19] Ima Mechanique: is that HW upgrade or data?
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: HW
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: a HW move actually
• [15:19] Oskar Linden: diff datacenter
• [15:19] Melfina Marshdevil: so assets will be unaccessable?
• [15:19] Ima Mechanique: no refresh though?
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: yes
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: no refresh
• [15:20] Ima Mechanique: ah excellent
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: I can facilitate that when needed Ima
• [15:20] Ima Mechanique: oh
• [15:20] Ima Mechanique: not for me, I've had a few people asking is all
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: all of the publicly filed 1.36 jiras are here: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&type=1&pid=10002&version=10568&sorter/field=issuekey&sorter/order=DESC
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: each have been accounted for
• [15:20] Ima Mechanique: you don't want a list of a dozen people wanting in ;-)
• [15:20] Oskar Linden: if you guys are seeing anything else now would be the time to get them filed and speak up
• [15:21] Oskar Linden: alright. well I'm sure you guys are eager to talk about havok 7
• [15:21] Melfina Marshdevil: I havent see anything except for those jiras
• [15:21] Indira Matova: 0_o
• [15:21] Milo Linden: ima send me the list on agni and i'll see what i can do
• [15:21] Oskar Linden: Havok is getting upgraded is the news for you today
• [15:21] Latif Khalifa: yeye
• [15:21] Drew Dwi: suprise feature of 1.36.1 right? :P
• [15:22] Oskar Linden: for aditi access I've been asking people to IM me directly to ask permission to get in
• [15:22] Falcon Linden: Yeah, oskar, you gonna get my branch QA'd by next week? :)
• [15:22] Oskar Linden: that's been working so far
• [15:22] Latif Khalifa: lets hope you use the oportunity to make sculpties collide properly this time around
• [15:22] Falcon Linden: Latif: We won't....at first.
• [15:22] Oskar Linden: It is potentially planned for a feww months out
• [15:22] Oskar Linden: most probably in 1.40
• [15:22] Sarria Yaffle: permission to test havok7 you mean?
• [15:22] Falcon Linden: (See the "No" part? :)
• [15:22] Melfina Marshdevil: noted the no
• [15:22] Oskar Linden: I'll talk more alter about getting in early on havok 7 testing
• [15:22] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, you bring nothing new to the Lab then ;)
• [15:22] Falcon Linden: smiles.
• [15:23] Latif Khalifa: that has been modus operandi for quite some time ;)
• [15:23] Drew Dwi: current havok is 4 right? my memory is...
• [15:23] Oskar Linden: we'll have an earlier spot to get public testing on havok 7 and I'll communicate to you then about that
• [15:23] Oskar Linden: now let's have falcon talk about the changes and what to expect
• [15:23] Indira Matova: nice
• [15:23] Falcon Linden: We are currently running on Havok 4.6.1
• [15:23] Latif Khalifa: except babbage has woken up for some reason, and gave us some much needed scripting improvements
• [15:23] Drew Dwi: right, thought so
• [15:24] Falcon Linden: We will be upgrading to Havok 7.0.0, and hopefully we'll keep pace with their major versions in the future
• [15:24] Oskar Linden: babbage never sleeps Latif
• [15:24] Oskar Linden: he just is a busy man
• [15:24] Ima Mechanique: Latif, it's Winter in UK, which means cold and wet so not much to do but invent new stuff
• [15:24] Falcon Linden: The main reason for this move is performance. In case anyone hasn't noticed, sims are laggy.
• [15:24] Falcon Linden:  :)
• [15:24] Drew Dwi: any big new "features" or just better performance?
• [15:24] Drew Dwi: err, or answer my q before I ask it :P
• [15:25] Falcon Linden: And we need better performance if we want to add...
• [15:25] Falcon Linden: ...more features!
• [15:25] Charlene Trudeau:  :)
• [15:25] Oskar Linden: let's let the man talk
• [15:25] Oskar Linden: then we can take questions
• [15:25] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, it was my impression that physics was not the major cause of lag
• [15:25] Latif Khalifa: Oskar: ok
• [15:25] Falcon Linden: So for the first release, the hope is that there will be no behavioral changes
• [15:26] Falcon Linden: But you should notice improved performance in a wide range of areas
• [15:26] Falcon Linden: Speaking to the issue of sculpties:
• [15:26] Falcon Linden: I want to give you the ability to create a separate physics representation for your objects
• [15:27] Sarria Yaffle: WOO!
• [15:27] Melfina Marshdevil: O.O
• [15:27] sensory Hax: mink
• [15:27] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: Mink
• [15:27] Falcon Linden: Exactly how this will work is up in the air right now, but it's pretty high on my list.
• [15:27] Sarria Yaffle: has been wanting that for ages
• [15:27] Lares Carter: awesome.
• [15:27] Aisha Marshdevil: o.o....
• [15:27] Falcon Linden: The physics representation will be more limited, of course: spheres, capsules (maybe), cylinders, boxes
• [15:27] Falcon Linden: Maybe convex hulls
• [15:27] Techwolf Lupindo: Will that later can be use when mesh import comes to fruitation?
• [15:28] Falcon Linden: And collections of those. There will be none of the more complex shape types
• [15:28] Falcon Linden: But that will make your vehicles way better, for example
• [15:28] Seanas Alston: is it possible to make physics even more realtime?
• [15:28] Falcon Linden: I'd also like to add ray casting to the scripting language
• [15:28] Latif Khalifa: that will be good enough, compared to what we have now
• [15:28] Falcon Linden: Seanas: it's possible to make it not painfully slow :) But we need your help to do it.
• [15:29] Sarria Yaffle: basically invisible "prims" that overlap an object to define how physics treats it, thereby letting the object contain 255 prims and still m,ove?
• [15:29] Falcon Linden: Let's hold questions till the end, actually
• [15:29] Seanas Alston: yes falcon
• [15:29] Aisha Marshdevil: yea guys damnit i wanna hear this not spaming off questions!! >.<
• [15:29] Seanas Alston: lol
• [15:29] Falcon Linden: But raycasting will be nice for anyone who builds weapons. Linear casting is another option that would be great for automatic build scripts
• [15:29] Seanas Alston: quesitons are a good start
• [15:30] Falcon Linden: by helping you determine where to place an object
• [15:30] Techwolf Lupindo: I though someone was queing up the questions for later answers?
• [15:30] Falcon Linden: If they are, it's news to me.
• [15:30] Aisha Marshdevil: lol
• [15:30] Oskar Linden: PM questions to me ;-)
• [15:30] Aisha Marshdevil: let Falcon speak damnits :o
• [15:31] Falcon Linden: Mind you that the ray/linear casts are not guaranteed, but they are high on my list of things to provide
• [15:31] Falcon Linden: Another feature I can hope to implement is a scripting API for Havok's vehicle framework
• [15:31] sensory Hax: can go over 31's prim for phisical? or always help with script?
• [15:31] Seanas Alston: oh and they is another thing about the physics engine, (im not saying its terrible) a physical object on top of another they are slightly spaced
• [15:31] Falcon Linden: much better, more efficient ground vehicles
• [15:31] Melfina Marshdevil: interesting....
• [15:32] Aisha Marshdevil: (glares at everyone who isnt falcon) -__-
• [15:32] Falcon Linden: Finally, there's the issue of joints
• [15:32] Falcon Linden: Joints are a giant PITA
• [15:32] Melfina Marshdevil: ...... (dies)
• [15:33] Seanas Alston: o.o?
• [15:33] Falcon Linden: however, if you're all very nice and write lots of letters to the CEO (kidding--don't do that!), I might consider adding them in a limited capacity
• [15:33] Techwolf Lupindo: A working phycicial swing would be nice.
• [15:33] Falcon Linden: Limited meaning that they could only attach things to the world, not to each other. You could make swinging doors, but if you move the wall away, the door would keep swinging :)
• [15:34] Latif Khalifa: hiearchical linking too? ;) How nicer we need to be :P
• [15:34] Falcon Linden: No.
• [15:34] Melfina Marshdevil: xD
• [15:34] Falcon Linden: And again, questions to Oskar
• [15:34] Falcon Linden: But I think that's most of what I have for now except to add that we definitely will not be using the improved performance to reduce limits on scripts
• [15:35] Falcon Linden: We want to give you the tools to make more efficient objects, not less efficient ones easier :)
• [15:35] Falcon Linden: And with that, I think we'll go to questions.
• [15:35] Oskar Linden: ok
• [15:35] Oskar Linden: again PM me the questions
• [15:35] Oskar Linden: I'm going from first served
• [15:35] Latif Khalifa: how about per prim phantom settings in a link set?
• [15:35] Oskar Linden: from Aisha Marshdevil: new physical prim limit? more than 32?
• [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: Not a question: Falcon what you just said is epic.
• [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: Bravo
• [15:36] sensory Hax: said the 31 prim limit will be exceeded?
• [15:36] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: said the 31 prim limit will be exceeded?
• [15:36] Falcon Linden: No, there will not be a new physical prim limit. But if/when the physics proxy system comes into place, you can have as many display prims as you like if the physics rep has <32 prims
• [15:36] Falcon Linden: Does that make sense?
• [15:36] Sarria Yaffle: \0/
• [15:36] Aisha Marshdevil: nopes
• [15:36] Aisha Marshdevil: xD
• [15:37] Ima Mechanique: no
• [15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: so you can have 255 prims in a linkset and set 32 of those links as pyhsical?
• [15:37] Falcon Linden: Okay. Let me try again
• [15:37] Falcon Linden: The feature I want to create will let you specify a simple physics representation for a complicated linked prim set
• [15:37] Aisha Marshdevil: simple answer yes or no (for my puny brain to better comprehend XD) if i make a boat 100 prims. can i make it physical? :D
• [15:37] Techwolf Lupindo: I think instead of phycial prims, now have inviable phycial prims, but also have many phantom pims on the object. Am I correct?
• [15:37] Falcon Linden: Alsha: not without extra work. But with extra work, yes.
• [15:37] Aisha Marshdevil: :D
• [15:38] sensory Hax: nods
• [15:38] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: / me nods
• [15:38] sensory Hax: use always script
• [15:38] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: Always use script
• [15:38] sensory Hax: ok
• [15:38] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: ok
• [15:38] Falcon Linden: You will be able to create a simpler linked set with <32 prims and say "Use this as the physics for the boat." And the boat can have 1000 prims, but they won't be used for physics
• [15:38] Falcon Linden: only the physics set will. Is that any clearer?
• [15:38] Sarria Yaffle: 1000?
• [15:38] Falcon Linden: 1000 = exageration
• [15:38] Sarria Yaffle: x3
• [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: >9000!?
• [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: xD
• [15:38] Oskar Linden: ok. next questions is from Drew Dwi: q1) was under the impression the major pain point for lag was Agent Time.... how much if any of that is related to physics stuff?
• [15:38] sensory Hax: as currently it does not change then
• [15:39] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: as currently it does not change then
• [15:39] Ima Mechanique: so you create a physical frame and "hang" other prims on it?
• [15:39] Ima Mechanique: with super glue
• [15:39] Falcon Linden: Drew: I've heard both
• [15:39] Falcon Linden: Drew: But physics definitely /can/ be a bottleneck
• [15:40] Falcon Linden: Drew: You see it on the sionChicken farms, for example
• [15:40] Falcon Linden: and with vehicles
• [15:40] Seanas Alston: sionchickens are sim killers if they are too many
• [15:40] Drew Dwi: mmm, right, got it.
• [15:40] Ima Mechanique: yup, I have a *nice* sionChicken barbecue
• [15:40] Oskar Linden: next question from Drew Dwi: q2) can we see falcon's "list"
• [15:40] sensory Hax: lool
• [15:40] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: lool
• [15:40] Falcon Linden: Drew: No.
• [15:40] Falcon Linden:  :)
• [15:41] Oskar Linden: last question from Drew Dwi: q3) [15:31:43
• [15:41] Latif Khalifa: he will show you his if you show him yours :P
• [15:41] Seanas Alston: i think it is, usually minimising attachments make sim crossings faster
• [15:41] Falcon Linden: That's an area I've just started thinking about. I don't know why vehicles go crazy between regions. It should be fixable, but I haven't begun substantial work on it.
• [15:42] Falcon Linden: I mean, there will likely be a bit of a pause on crossing
• [15:42] Sarria Yaffle: vehicles and agents
• [15:42] Oskar Linden: question from Sarria Yaffle: Does the havok vehicle API support air vehicles as well? any chance of linksets of more than 255 prims?
• [15:42] Falcon Linden: That's going to happen from a data transfer point of view. But right now the vehicles go crazy
• [15:42] Falcon Linden: Sarria: Regarding the vehicle API, no, there's no support for anything oother than ground vehicles. But the ground vehicles are substantially better than what we have now
• [15:43] Falcon Linden: Regarding larger linksets:
• [15:43] Falcon Linden: It's possible that we might allow >255 prims in a link set IF you provide a physics representation that is substantially simpler.
• [15:43] Sarria Yaffle: sweet
• [15:43] Drew Dwi: scary
• [15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: wows.
• [15:43] Oskar Linden: question from Seanas Alston: they are many things about the physics engine that are different to other games that use Havok, such as Half Life 2, the physics are faster responsive, realtime gravity etc do you think in time that this will be accomplished with the Havok physics engine within SL?
• [15:43] Falcon Linden: But I'd have to talk to some other Lindens about that to make sure it's viable
• [15:44] Falcon Linden: Seanas: Great question, and props for asking it
• [15:44] Falcon Linden: We at LL face a unique situation compared to other game studios.
• [15:44] Falcon Linden: Take Uncharted 2, for example. They were proud to have up to 500 dynamic objects in a single scene. We frequently have thousands in SL.
• [15:44] Oskar Linden: looks at all of the unique situations that are seaed in front of him ;-)
• [15:45] Drew Dwi: and extra pesky users
• [15:45] Seanas Alston: i guess that makes sence
• [15:45] Fisher Linden: lol
• [15:45] Falcon Linden: We allow people to do basically whatever they want
• [15:45] Falcon Linden: Even when they really, really shouldn't
• [15:45] Sarria Yaffle: x3
• [15:45] Seanas Alston: indeed
• [15:45] Falcon Linden: So I'm trying to provide people with the tools to do it right
• [15:45] Falcon Linden: Now, there are still other issues
• [15:45] Techwolf Lupindo: Seperaterating phycial prims from visiable prims is a step in the right direction. :-)
• [15:46] Falcon Linden: Like client-side prediction. I encourage you all to beg and plead for client-side prediction because (a) it'll make the sim feel much more responsive and (b) I want to work on implementing it because it's fun :)
• [15:46] Seanas Alston: yes
• [15:46] Saijanai Kuhn: would need to be an optional thing, I suspect
• [15:46] Oskar Linden: next question from Jonathan Yap: Q for Falcon--in load testing what kind of percentage of speed improvement in H7 have you seen?
• [15:46] Techwolf Lupindo: You mean the powerwalk though walls is not fun? ;-)
• [15:46] Falcon Linden: But are we ever going to be able to compete with the current next gen games as they're released? Probably not. We face different challenges.
• [15:46] Falcon Linden: But I hope so. :)
• [15:47] Seanas Alston: indeed
• [15:47] Falcon Linden: Oskar, any more questions?
• [15:47] Latif Khalifa: there are some rudimentary dead reconing thingies in the viewr, but they sure could use a loving hand Falcon :)
• [15:47] Falcon Linden: Latif: Aye. They're not physics enabled
• [15:47] Oskar Linden: did you answer jonathan yap's?
• [15:47] Falcon Linden: Not sure. What was it?
• [15:47] Oskar Linden: 6 lines up
• [15:47] Oskar Linden: 8 lines :-p
• [15:48] Falcon Linden: Not seeing it :P
• [15:48] Techwolf Lupindo: 10 lines of chat on the wall...*sings*
• [15:48] Sarria Yaffle: [15:45
• [15:45] Linden: Even: when they really, really shouldn't
• [15:45] Yaffle: x3:
• [15:48] Oskar Linden: next question from Jonathan Yap: Q for Falcon--in load testing what kind of percentage of speed improvement in H7 have you seen?
• [15:48] Sarria Yaffle: oops
• [15:49] Falcon Linden: Jonathan: I'd rather not say until we get real-world data, but I've been very happy with the results. Mind you, I'll never be /satisfied/: I will always want it faster and better, but I've been very happy with what I've been able to do so far
• [15:49] Falcon Linden: I hope you all will be too
• [15:49] Falcon Linden: ...once we iron out the inevitable crashes and breaking of things :)
• [15:49] Oskar Linden: next question from Melfina Marshdevil: Question: With all of these new functions and features can we expect methods for land owners and estate owners to control how various limits will work.
• [15:50] Falcon Linden: Melfina: I haven't the faintest idea (about what you mean /or/ whether we will or not :)
• [15:50] Oskar Linden:  :-D
• [15:50] Falcon Linden: Feel free to rephrase, though!
• [15:50] Melfina Marshdevil: well to be able to disable physics for only group and owner access
• [15:50] Melfina Marshdevil: make it so random people cant use havok
• [15:51] Falcon Linden: Doubtful. Our simulator relies on physics heavily, including for character motion
• [15:51] Drew Dwi: hmmm interesting but without physics they'd be unable to move no?
• [15:51] Oskar Linden: disables havok for all non lindens then drives around the grid lag free
• [15:51] Oskar Linden: great idea melfina
• [15:51] Drew Dwi: xD
• [15:51] Falcon Linden: And you can already disallow others from rezzing things on your land
• [15:51] Aisha Marshdevil: would seriously give estate managers power TREAL POWER over greifers too
• [15:51] Fisher Linden: lol...thankfully you said non-Lindens!
• [15:51] Aisha Marshdevil: REAL*
• [15:51] Latif Khalifa: i still don't think physics is the cause of most lag ;)
• [15:52] Falcon Linden: Latif: We'll take this out back later
• [15:52] Falcon Linden:  :)
• [15:52] Drew Dwi: you can disable physics as an EM... just no selectivity :P
• [15:52] Aisha Marshdevil: its no fun ejecting an asswhipe greifer :P SOOO much more funto freese them in space unable to move or ress
• [15:52] Melfina Marshdevil: yes can we have the ability to selectly disable?
• [15:52] Aisha Marshdevil:  :)
• [15:52] Sarria Yaffle: most of my lag comes from people entering/leaving and high script load from what i see
• [15:52] Ima Mechanique: agrees with Latif. I think it those pesky residents
• [15:52] Aisha Marshdevil: also it traumatises them into never tryign again
• [15:52] Drew Dwi: yea, brought that up earlier Sarria
• [15:52] Seanas Alston: thats what the freeze function is for
• [15:52] Aisha Marshdevil: torture the little fuckface and he will never want to greif again
• [15:53] Jonathan Yap: Wasn't most of the sim freeze on TP bug fixed recently?
• [15:53] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, is Andrew a happy camper now that he got a dedicated physics guy on the team :) Poor fellow was so overworked :D
• [15:53] Falcon Linden: Everyone, let's keep this on topic, shall we?
• [15:53] Melfina Marshdevil: I wish EMs could use god freeze on there own estate.
• [15:53] Oskar Linden: takes away all of your caffeine and sugar
• [15:53] Falcon Linden: Scripts /shouldn't/ be able to lag the sim
• [15:54] Falcon Linden: As far as I know, they only get run when there's extra time in the frame
• [15:54] Melfina Marshdevil: heh im going to have lots of "fun" with havok 7 lag/crashy wise
• [15:54] Falcon Linden: I could be wrong on that, though
• [15:54] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, running scripts are not able, loading them does.
• [15:54] Latif Khalifa: traditional single giant loop game server comes back to bite, when you have operations lasting 2-3s ;)
• [15:54] Ima Mechanique: they can by using too much RAM Falcon. It's part of what Babbage is working on. not direct lag, but indirect
• [15:55] Falcon Linden: Ima: And similarly, I'm writing code right now to substantially reduce physics memory
• [15:55] Falcon Linden: Ima: err, memory usage, I mean. Heh.
• [15:55] Oskar Linden: last question is not havok related but is in teh agenda under Any Other Business (no name provided though)
• [15:55] Ima Mechanique: excellent
• [15:55] Oskar Linden: "How do Parcel UUID's change llGetParcelDetails (PARCEL_DETAILS_ID) Can we test this really quick?"
• [15:55] Oskar Linden: anyone wanna expound on that?
• [15:55] Latif Khalifa: answer "black magic"
• [15:55] Melfina Marshdevil: yeah if I change something about the parcel
• [15:56] Drew Dwi: any setting I think
• [15:56] Latif Khalifa: teorethically when you split two parcel, the bigger one keeps the original ID
• [15:56] Melfina Marshdevil: what changes on parcels cause the UUID to regenerate
• [15:56] Drew Dwi: kinda like a prim?
• [15:56] Latif Khalifa: nobody could gives us the answer what happesn when you join two, which UUID is assigned
• [15:56] Latif Khalifa: Melfine, joining and splitting
• [15:56] Maestro Linden: Changing the name/description of a parcel doesnt' change it's uuid, for sure
• [15:57] Milo Linden: the uuid of the larger parcel is retained
• [15:57] Ima Mechanique: Latif, if I recall correctly it depends on the order they were selected for joining
• [15:57] Latif Khalifa: Milo, on join?
• [15:57] Milo Linden: yes
• [15:57] Latif Khalifa: Ima, that was what used to be, but I think it was changed so the larger UUID wins
• [15:57] Jonathan Yap: what if both parcels are the same size
• [15:57] Latif Khalifa: i mean the UUID of the larger parcel
• [15:57] Ima Mechanique: ah, that's annoying ;-)
• [15:57] Milo Linden: no idea lol
• [15:58] Melfina Marshdevil: alright well im going to have to play around with it and ill document it in the wiki :P
• [15:58] Oskar Linden: thanks melfina
• [15:58] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, I had one more physics thing. How hard would it be to allow for per-prim phantom settings in a link set?
• [15:58] Ima Mechanique: Falcon, I assume ground vehicles excludes boats too?
• [15:58] Milo Linden: i would guess it would fall back to selection order, we retain the larger uuid to make sure we keep search listings correct
• [15:59] Latif Khalifa: it would ofte be useful to have a house say with a curtain that you could walk through
• [15:59] Falcon Linden: Ima: yes, it does
• [15:59] Falcon Linden: Latif: not sure what you mean
• [15:59] Latif Khalifa: (there are some bugs in the current code that allows for this, but not officially supported)
• [15:59] Melfina Marshdevil: well we expect the UUID to be as static as possible and if it ever changes we need to know why that happens
• [15:59] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, right now when you have a link set, it cal be phantom (does not colide) or non-phantom
• [15:59] Latif Khalifa: all or nothing
• [15:59] Oskar Linden: Ali, you should introduce yourself as well
• [16:00] Ima Mechanique: In theory a prim cannot be phantom AND physical
• [16:00] Latif Khalifa: many users want the ability to set it per prim in a link set
• [16:00] Entering god: mode, level 200
• [16:00] Falcon Linden: Latif: In my land of fairy tales and dreams, people will be able to specify a prim as having no physics representation at all
• [16:00] Falcon Linden: Latif: that means no callbacks, mind you, and the root prim would need to have some kind of physics rep to prevent it falling through the ground
• [16:01] Falcon Linden: But it would allow what you're describing
• [16:01] kizmut Smit: Latif: Have you trieed making the curtain flexi?
• [16:01] Latif Khalifa: i think we are misunderstanding one other ;)
• [16:01] Oskar Linden: ok everybody. we are officially over time
• [16:01] Oskar Linden: all the little lindens need to scurry back to work :-)
• [16:01] Aisha Marshdevil: lol
• [16:01] Oskar Linden: thanks to everyone for coming
• [16:02] Techwolf Lupindo: cracks the whip
• [16:02] Ali Linden: oskar: didnt want to interrupt the great exchange. but guys, im Ali - new QA on the server team!
• [16:02] Opensource Obscure: thank you !
• [16:02] Latif Khalifa: work is overrated ;)
• [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks MUCH to Falcon for the intro to Havok 7!!!
• [16:02] Opensource Obscure: hello Ali ! welcome ;D
• [16:02] Ima Mechanique: Oskar, what about the non lil' lindens ;-)
• [16:02] Oskar Linden: and say hi to ALI
• [16:02] Latif Khalifa: Ali, welcome and good luck :)
• [16:02] Oskar Linden: the new qa guy for server
• [16:02] Falcon Linden: Indeed. Thanks for your questions. I'm glad you're excited about it and I look forward to all your bloody crash and bug reports!
• [16:02] Aisha Marshdevil: ELLO ALI :D
• [16:02] Oskar Linden: from Singapore
• [16:02] Melfina Marshdevil: hey do we expect a public blog post or something for havok 7?
• [16:02] Ima Mechanique: hi ALI
• [16:02] Richard Untermeyer: thanks guys!
• [16:02] Effy Khandr: Ali :)
• [16:02] Ali Linden: and often, im a test monkey ;)
• [16:02] Falcon Linden: Melfina: eventually. I'm keeping it relatively quiet right now.
• [16:02] Identity Euler: hi
• [16:02] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi Ali. I'me the wolf that likes to crash sims. lol
• [16:02] Ali Linden: thought id put on my work clothes for you guys!
• [16:03] sensory Hax: greetings and ty
• [16:03] [[User:xsensory Hax[it>en]|xsensory Hax[it>en]]]: Greetings and ty
• [16:03] Sarria Yaffle: wow.. this is the first time i've seen av impostors in ages XD
• [16:03] Latif Khalifa: falcon will you be coming buy these office hours? or perhaps andrews?
• [16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: alright well falcon havok 7 sounds great and I cant wait to hear more about it when it comes time for the beta
• [16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: damn
• [16:03] Latif Khalifa: ah, the man is quick on the trigger ;)
• [16:03] Ali Linden: techwolf: nice to meet you. please give us a warning. ill be looking for your crashes!
• [16:03] Oskar Linden: alright guys. remember the inv server move tomorrow at 7am pst
• [16:04] Oskar Linden: see you guys on AGNI and here next week hopefully
• [16:04] kizmut Smit: yay