User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 11 06

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Hey everyone.
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	they're interesting
[17:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	other than fall on us and repeat what we sy in hovertext, not really
[17:09]	Rex Cronon:	hi andrew
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure thinks this may be a good time to detach her rezzer thing before we end up in a herd of sheep
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Andrew, be careful not to ask a bout Sheep, when in God Mode.
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	I got sidetracked trying to fix a floor at one of the Welcome Area's
[17:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	hello Andrew
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	heya andrew
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	but I only messed it up insttead
[17:09]	Siobhan McCallen:	good idea sindy
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	d'oh
[17:09]	Maggie Darwin:	sheep sheep sheep, that's all anybody talks about
[17:10]	Rex Cronon:	in some sims these thing would be considered spam at best and griefing at worst
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Something that would be nice, is a relative rezzer.
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	only if it landed on your head
[17:10]	Maggie Darwin:	I have too many relatives already
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's only grievous, when the Spam runs dry.
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	i hate dry spam. I prefer mine crispy
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	magic rezzers are always tricky.. most of the things mine rez are temp but they also have a timer that llDie's after 10 sceonds or so
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	fine line between funny and spam :)
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	ok, so what is up with the little falling objects with floating text?
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	though i still like maggies chat thing
[17:11]	Siobhan McCallen:	random silliness
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:11]	Maggie Darwin:	Hmm? What thing?
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Oh ok.
[17:11]	Maggie Darwin:	I killed iot
[17:11]	Maggie Darwin:	it
[17:12]	Siobhan McCallen:	and I don't see a thing. that's mys tory and I'm sticking to it
[17:12]	Maggie Darwin:	She said sheepishly
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. this is the pricing policy meeting, right?
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure hides under the table
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	Haha Sindy
[17:12]	Siobhan McCallen pulls out a very large trout
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler wonders how much a policy would cost.
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	I really haven't been paying attention to the openspace stuff
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure waits for the 'logged out by admin' message
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	lucky you, andrew!
[17:12]	Maggie Darwin:	Actually, I was very favorably impressed with what M had to say.
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	I got an email from someone asking about possible features/workarounds/changes to openspaces
[17:13]	Siobhan McCallen:	don't, andrew...save yourself!
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	and it was only through the questions being asked that I learned about some various price / avatar limit / performance gradations that are in the proposal stage, or else officially announced
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not even sure.
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	I've been very "heads down" in the code
[17:14]	Sindy Tsure:	sorta 1/2 announced, i think
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	and just delete all my emails about the subject
[17:14]	Sindy Tsure:	still some tbd's in there
[17:14]	Simon Linden:	yeah, the details aren't out yet
[17:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	People who actually want to use their Open Space, will have it priced as Homestead.
[17:14]	Siobhan McCallen:	half announced over the sound of the wailing and gnashing of teeth
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	i had an openspace question, tho not related to the pricing stuff
[17:15]	Maggie Darwin:	"actually use" being defined as "use far beyond the original intention"
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	As I said in my response to the email... My preference is that we get rid of openspaces and instead throw a team at optimizing the simulator to allow lots of avatars and much better script performance
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	then drop region prices across the board
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	but I doubt that is going to happen... not enough people to throw at the project
[17:16]	Simon Linden:	I think there's a place for them as cheaper, lower capactiy regions, but it really needs to be well defined
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Here's an idea I had...
[17:16]	Maggie Darwin:	I have a project like that where I work. Not enough time to do right, somehow find time to do over
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure:	does it involve sheep?
[17:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Charge 1/8 price, but charge for uses?
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	what if the monthly price of the region was a function of max_avatar_count and max_prim_count?
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	Then we would let the region owners set their limits
[17:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do't forget scripts
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	and charge them a sliding scale... low limits would correspond to a low price
[17:17]	Maggie Darwin:	In general, computer performance is a black art. Too black for most residents to reason about successfully.
[17:17]	Rex Cronon:	so if i had 1 prim and one avatar, i would pay 2USD:)
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	yeah... we would probably have to implement script limits too, so the region owners could pick that too
[17:18]	Maggie Darwin:	M has already promised you *will* have script limits
[17:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	Did you see what happened at Burning Life?
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	All scripts aren't created equal, however. They can have a wide range of impact, so I (personally) don't like the 'X number of scripts" limit
[17:18]	Maggie Darwin:	I didn;t see anyting happen a Burning Life, The lag was too bad
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Well Rex, the formula could be something like: base_price + A * avatar_limit + B * prim_limit + C * script_limit
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	wouldn't that cause a _ton_ of really cheap sims to be ordered for oceans?
[17:18]	Maggie Darwin:	And then I crashed. Repeatedly
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps Sindy
[17:19]	Siobhan McCallen:	Is the issue prim count, or is it actual server load?
[17:19]	Sindy Tsure likes the idea, andrew.. think there may be tricky bits on keeping the hosts busy enough but not too busy
[17:19]	Siobhan McCallen:	what REALLY loads a server?
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	one reason for doing that would be to give region owners incentives to optimize
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	but also would allow them to pick how much they wanted (pay for what you use)
[17:20]	Rex Cronon:	andrew, u should have been with jack when he asked user input about the new prices
[17:20]	Maggie Darwin:	Funny how the incentives always seem to lead the tools
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	then we could try to group the low-resource regions accordingly on the simulator host machines
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	(that is the hard part)
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Ella, we're discussing forbidden subjects
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	desmond suggested somehting with the same sort of goal.. he wanted his sims to be all on the same host so he could manage the load better
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	depending on what they were going to be used for
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	..without impacting other sims on that core, since that was one of the big reasons jack gave for the price change
[17:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	That idea has some popularity, but it requires design of a different allocation algorhythm
[17:21]	Maggie Darwin:	Back when they were sold four at a time, they *were* all on the same CPU
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	We don't currently do such region grouping by region owner
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	yep.. and rolling restarts take down your estate..
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	that is, grouping them on host machines
[17:22]	Maggie Darwin:	I know two adjacent full sims that are clearly in different colos
[17:22]	Maggie Darwin:	because you take your life in your hands trying to cross
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	No Maggie, the regions use a "fall as they may" scheme when it comes to the actual machine hosting them
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	i think LL wants things near on the grid to be far on the hardware
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	or not-near anyway
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	We actually want the hardware to not matter, but reality strikes back
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	there are some technical reasons why region grouping by nearby hardware would be a good thing
[17:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	There should be some examination of usage trends, so fred can party while joe's at work
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	hardware is just a necessary evil to run the software, simon
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	shared cache!
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	but it is just easier to let the cards just fall where they will
[17:23]	Maggie Darwin:	That quickly becomes an impondeable linear programming problem
[17:24]	Maggie Darwin:	I'm involved in similar work on a Java bladecenter cluster
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure gets the phone.. brb
[17:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	does prim count *alone* heavily load a region?
[17:25]	Siobhan McCallen:	say, if I rez just static prims?
[17:25]	Simon Linden:	Rezzing in particular adds load - the new object has to be integrated into the world, and that's slow
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	sorta, there is a cost per static prim
[17:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	Then, if one estate owner could rent by server, he could do the anticipation and negotiations. "You get to party between..."
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	smaller than per-dynamic prim
[17:26]	Maggie Darwin:	But once it stabilizes...
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	and moving dynamic prims are even more expensive
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	but not all prims are created equal
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	But it varies greatly by the type - a cube has a lot fewer triangles that some oddly twisted torus
[17:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	so...if it has physics, it has a higher cost. and if it's scripted it's a higher cost, and if it has particles or sound, it's a higher cost.
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	and people tping in with attachments counts as rezzing?
[17:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	things the server has to poll to generate, right?
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, but floating the cost would be complicated
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I've looked at the TP arrival problem - the biggest slowdown there is our XML parser
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	(that is, using floats for cost instead of integers)
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin chokes
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	eXpensive Markup Language?
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	yep
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	You serialize object to XML?
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	Holy shit
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	Don't look at me - wasn't my idea :)
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. before i laugh, was it andrews?
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	idea?
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	I'm actually going to look at changing that for TPs in the next few months - we have an alternative binary format
[17:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	I ask because I went to an OS region and rezzed a 2000-prim static build, and while it took a little while to instantiate, once stable, all it added was .1ms of sim time
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	We used to have a more svelt format
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	but someone switched to XML
[17:28]	Maggie Darwin:	*cough*ProtoBuffs*cough*
[17:28]	Sindy Tsure had an openspace question..
[17:28]	Maggie Darwin:	Only one?
[17:28]	Sindy Tsure:	is the openspace/full sim code identical?
[17:28]	Sindy Tsure:	but config'ed differently?
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	yes Sindy.
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure:	or maybe some #ifdef differences?
[17:29]	Simon Linden:	We've looked at them - protobufs would be good. It's a possibility if our binary format isn't fast enough
[17:29]	Maggie Darwin:	Bad enough to have one version.. :-)
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	same code, different limits
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure:	so just config.. ok.. ty!
[17:29]	Maggie Darwin:	You have a binary format in development?
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	in fact, all of our server hosts are same code across the board, different configs
[17:30]	Simon Linden:	There's been one around for a while -- I haven't used it or checked out the performance
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	the db servers have the same code image as our simulator hosts, as our web servers
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure blinks
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	asset servers run sims?
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	or do you mean OS image?
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	oh... the asset servers are special, I forgot about them
[17:31]	Sindy Tsure picks presense servers instead
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	and I think some of our database machines are silver or coper-plated hardware... a slight step up from the bronze-plated, or nickel simulator hosts
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	are you making that up?
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	but the software installed is the exact same
[17:32]	Rex Cronon:	too bad u don't have gold plate, as people like bling:)
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	shiny!
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	what I mean is... "gold plated hardware" are Very Expensive Machine's... IBM mainfraims and things like that
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	oh...
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	I consider the asset servers to be "silver plated hardware"
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	lol.. ok
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	pretty expensive, but not the most
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	copper plated would be 3-U servers with backup power supplies and RAID or something fancy
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure pictured prospero with a little scrap metal business on the side..
[17:33]	Simon Linden:	We did recently have some experimental stuff running on 8-core / 16GB machines and it was fast :)
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	nickel or bronze would be cheap 1U pizzaboxen
[17:34]	Siobhan McCallen:	level 5 RAID, special cooling...
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	oh.. is that the class 6 hosts that the rumors are starting on?
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. scratch that question.. i can wait for jack to announce them.. :)
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure:	1.25 sim still on track for next week?
[17:35]	Siobhan McCallen:	brb
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	Uh... server-1.25
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	there were two new bugs in it I was supposed to look at today... haven't got to it yet :-(
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	but I don't think they are blockers
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	lemme check my email
[17:36]	Maggie Darwin:	I just found out that the Inner Strength HUD....successor to Force Powers...appears to be unable to shut off an attack once launched in 1.25
[17:37]	Maggie Darwin:	I'm working the issue with the developer, who is mostlly in absentia
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	unable to shut off an attach?
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	*attack
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	looks like server-1.25 is still on target for next week.
[17:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	Have you tried basic benchmarking?
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	Sindy ....yeah...for instance
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	See the halo?
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	Now it's gone.
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	On 1.25 I can;t make it go away
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	Maggie, sounds like you should file a bug and try to get the attention of one of the 1.25 team.
[17:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	Could be an interest list problem, or price of tea problem. Did you ask anouther, if it was a local appearence?
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	A copy of the problem object is going to be needed to reproduce the problem.
[17:39]	Maggie Darwin:	Well, I don't own the code. I filed a report with the builder
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	Ah ok
[17:39]	Siobhan McCallen:	back
[17:39]	Maggie Darwin:	/emote biobreak
[17:39]	Maggie Darwin:	Biobreak!
[17:40]	Siobhan McCallen:	the push issues appear to be fixed in 1.25
[17:40]	Siobhan McCallen:	and collisions
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	the bullet hits? or scripted pushes?
[17:41]	Siobhan McCallen:	actually, both.
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	I think I saw some of the comments on some of those "fix pending" bugs
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure just wants the wobbly camera bug to get fixed! that's been torturing me this week for some reason
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	and the tests looked good
[17:41]	Siobhan McCallen:	the push cap to zero is not capping to zero anymore
[17:41]	Siobhan McCallen:	and bullets are hitting well
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	I think I got one verify on the camera oscillation bug
[17:41]	Siobhan McCallen:	yes, breathing camera is fixed too
[17:42]	Siobhan McCallen:	I haven't *seen* an instance of attachments appearing and disappearing while sitting, either
[17:42]	Maggie Darwin:	I have to dash...Sio's gonna cover the rest of this for us.
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	actually being gone or just not visible?
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, maggie
[17:42]	Siobhan McCallen:	just going invisible
[17:42]	Siobhan McCallen:	happens primarily on poseballs
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	i think that's a known vwr bug.. zooming in a bit for a second fixes it up
[17:43]	Siobhan McCallen:	doesn't fix it permanently. moving the cam around yourself makes them appear and disappear
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure will believe that
[17:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8920
[17:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	prospero says 1.22 viewer is supposed to fix it
[17:44]	Sindy Tsure thinks it's been 3-4 weeks since she's mentioned http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
[17:45]	Siobhan McCallen:	but I can't verify it, of course
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Which is SVC-22?
[17:45]	Siobhan McCallen:	parcel limits, vehicles, and border crossings
[17:45]	Sindy Tsure:	that's vehicles going all weird if you cross a sim boundary and the parcel on the other side is full
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, yes, I keep suggesting that Andrew take a road trip
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	ah yes, SVC-22 one of my favorites
[17:46]	Siobhan McCallen:	it's what causes you to get unseated and leave a vehicle in the air over a full parcel that you can't kill
[17:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	Start at Tulup Tree, and hang a west at Neumogen
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	vehicles are a special case - they shouldn't get bounced on a full parcel and don't, unless you're crossing to a different sim
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	it just appears to be there, i think.. a relog makes it go away
[17:46]	Siobhan McCallen:	normally, when you hit a full parcel, you see "x sims seated on, will delete on stand" or some such
[17:47]	Siobhan McCallen:	but not on a sim crossing. on a crossing to a full parcel, you get booted off the vehicle and the vehicle sits in the sky
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	someday I'll be able to start on SVC-22
[17:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Temps and Vehicles aren't even supposed to be counted, for the parcel
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	I thought it was sim-crossing into parcel in which you're not allowed
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	boots the avatar
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	but leaves the vehicle
[17:48]	Sindy Tsure:	could be.. i think that happens within a sim, too
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	or is it... cross into region that is "avatar full"
[17:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's just a normal accdess line orbiting
[17:48]	Sindy Tsure:	svc-22 is really about full parcels, i think
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	vehicle continues but leave avatar in the neighbor region
[17:49]	Siobhan McCallen:	there's another issue of ban lines.
[17:49]	Siobhan McCallen:	they shouldn't be bouncing the av off the vehicle and leaving the vehicle in the air either
[17:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	Noobs shouldn't have to be orbited, when their vehicles are stolen
[17:49]	Siobhan McCallen:	similar, but not svc-22
[17:50]	Siobhan McCallen:	a lot of the vehicle continuing with the avatar in the original region are caused by expired region handoffs
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	#2 in the description of svc-22 is the one i've been thinking of
[17:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	"Can not region cross into banned parcel," does that take vehicles?
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	"2. Some of the time, usually with a full parcel, it's not checking whether the vehicle is a vehicle (vehicles are supposed to be counted against sim overhead, not the current parcel) and starting the return process, then abandoning it partway through."
[17:51]	Siobhan McCallen:	if you tp into the region with the vehicle quickly enough, you are still "sitting" in it, and will arrive back on the vehicle
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	Ah ok I get it
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	right... the vehicle crosses first, avatar arrives shortly after
[17:51]	Siobhan McCallen:	but that's not svc-22, that's a region handoff problem, mostly because the destination sim is in a colo
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	so for a brief moment the "vehicle" has no seated avatar
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	and the parcel count code determines that it is a "regular object"
[17:52]	Siobhan McCallen:	if the timing isn't right, the av ends up in limbo, still "seated" but not in the same region as the vehicle
[17:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	The vehicle is a linked object, and should have the Primatar as a link.
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	it goes very weird..
[17:52]	Siobhan McCallen:	you can't stand up, you can't move. all you can do is teleport
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	well... seated avatars are not sent with the vehicle. the two are separated and sent via different paths
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	region crossings need work
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	nothing in the vehicle says "i've got somebody on me"?
[17:53]	Siobhan McCallen:	they aren't rejoining.
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	sigh... you guys know that these office hours just make me anxious, right?
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	or is that just implied?
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	so many bugs, so little time
[17:53]	Siobhan McCallen:	sindy...it still thinks you are. if you tp into the region with the vehicle, you appear sitting back in the vehicle
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	have a sheep, andrew! no worries
[17:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Take a road trip, and relax.
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	andrew...we understand, really.
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	oops.. that didn't work well.. lol
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	sindy, perhaps your little wand should trigger on the mention of "bug"
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	It's not you, it's Murphy's Law of Cybernetic Entomology
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	then we'd have little bugs dropping constantly at these offiice hours
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	don't tempt me
[17:54]	Siobhan McCallen:	"There's always one more bug"
[17:54]	Simon Linden:	Let's have one for 'lag' as well
[17:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bugs could be vehicles, and I know just the route.
[17:55]	Siobhan McCallen:	uh oh.
[17:55]	Siobhan McCallen:	the bugs from the movie "Runaway"
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	bugs are actually on my list.. i have some bees already but they need work
[17:55]	Siobhan McCallen:	little robot spiders with Gene Simmons controlling 'em
[17:56]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	This office hour is almost over. Anybody have some questions or issues you're holding on to for the last minute?
[17:56]	Sindy Tsure:	ok.. now i rmember that movie
[17:56]	Sindy Tsure doesn't!
[17:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	SVC-2931, is Jahar being as much a jerk as I imagine?
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	I'm just making it a habit to ask.
[17:56]	Siobhan McCallen:	I want an indulgence to orbit anyone who uses the term "bait and switch" incorrectly anymore
[17:56]	Rex Cronon:	can llsetdamage() accept negative values that increase your life:)
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	or llGiveMoney with negative numbers!!
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	I'll see if I can hardcode that into the simulator Siobhan
[17:57]	Siobhan McCallen:	works for me
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	That should be an optino for the sim owner, but was taken away, at some point
[17:57]	Siobhan McCallen:	give yourself a sheep out of petty cash
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	Some medical procedure would be nice, but many games are setting their own damage counts.
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	i've seen medical stuff in sl.. it's usually a bit.. er.. much, i think
[17:59]	Siobhan McCallen:	have an option for damage regions to do something other than send someone home, settable by the parcel
[17:59]	Siobhan McCallen:	like run an animation
[17:59]	Rex Cronon:	and another function to get the life value
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... that would be kinda cool... a custom death anim
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	and functions to get more info about groups/roles!
[18:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Yes, llTeleportAgent. If the fear is of griefers, it should be limited to parcel or sim owners
[18:00]	Rex Cronon:	that isn't so hard. or it is:)
[18:00]	Siobhan McCallen:	wouldn't need 10,000 blasted combat huds and the damn politics around 'em
[18:00]	Siobhan McCallen:	since mostly what they don't like is being sent home
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	probaby not too hard Rex
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	the hardest part would be to provide the UI for the region/estate owners for setting it
[18:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Maybe we could set up parcel scripting?
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	per parcel scripting might be cool
[18:01]	Siobhan McCallen:	give some new options to the militaries and combat people
[18:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	I've always wondered, why not script the Primatoars and Clients, but Sims and Parcels should also be scriptable.
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	I'll bet there are some "low hanging fruit" on the "make combat systems easier/better" front
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	i guess somebody should make a jira entry requesting that, i wonder how many would vote:)
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	maybe I'll have an alt suggest it so I don't get assassinated. ;)
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	however... any feature at all seems out of reach right now... as soon as I'm done with this one project I'm going to go into "fix bugs" mode for a few weeks
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure:	:)
[18:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	TPAgent, would be a start. And I still think Forced TP is enough of a G-Team function, to be appropriate for Estate Holders.
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	oh, I know it would be a "someday" thing
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	I have to bail out - RL intervenes. Thanks to everyone for coming, it was good to see you
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	my birthday's in April. :)
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	That isn't really parcel scripting so much as more per-parcel settings
[18:03]	Rex Cronon:	bye simon
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	bye
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	there will always be bugs, andrew.. i still really like the idea of a handful of devs doing a couple week of low-hanging-fruit enhancements
[18:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	see ya Simin
[18:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	Simon
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, simon!
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	and stuff like that maybe needs to be also settable as per-region or per-state
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	per-estate
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	it starts to get complicated
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	each thing needs a config file with a clear override sequence
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	does the per-parcel setting win? or the per-region setting?
[18:05]	Rex Cronon:	region maybe?
[18:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	region at least
[18:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	Where do I find an intersim sandbox?
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure thinks the bigger-scope setting as the fallback
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	I guess it should be per-estate, per-region, per-parcel, then per-avatar
[18:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	parcel would be cool, but if it's too hard to implement, region
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure:	hiya ella
[18:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	PArcels and Regions both have keys, don't they? Why not contents?
[18:06]	Siobhan McCallen:	estate would also be helpful for large estates.
[18:06]	Siobhan McCallen:	wb ella
[18:06]	Andrew Linden:	alright, I've got to run... I've got to go fix that floor in that Welcome Area I was talking about.
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure:	make it phantom!!
[18:06]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[18:06]	Siobhan McCallen:	ok andrew. good to see you again
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, andrew! ty!
[18:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	Which area? It might be fun to offer useless comments
[18:07]	Sindy Tsure:	ooo.. a stalking andrew party!
[18:07]	Sindy Tsure:	lol..
[18:07]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, all
[18:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	have my latest gadget, andrew
[18:07]	Rex Cronon:	bye syndi
[18:07]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[18:07]	Andrew Linden:	Hangeul Arawn
[18:07]	Siobhan McCallen gave you NAS Grav-Chute v. 0.71 (BOXED).
[18:08]	Siobhan McCallen:	high-tech parachute.
[18:08]	Siobhan McCallen:	looks cool
[18:08]	Siobhan McCallen:	see ya later!