Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-09

07:00	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Hi Oz
	Oz Linden	hi all!
	Twisted Laws	Hi
	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
		Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
		Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
	Cummere Mayo	hey oz!
		hopes oz isnt a stealers fan >.>
07:01	Oz Linden	no, Patriots & Redskins - I was rooting for Green Bay
07:02	Wolfpup	i saw the end of the game when i got home from RL work as roommate had the game on
	Oz Linden	it was a very good game
	Cummere Mayo	that was one serious game, however shall we get on topic?
	Oz Linden	I was actually coding during it :-)
	Cummere Mayo	oz i sent you a list of what i think are mostly build tools / lib related jiras
	Oz Linden	So... I am in the middle of reorganizing my agenda page for this meeting. so I don't have a link
07:03	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Oz_Linden/Office_Hours_Topics
	Wolfpup	i tested the new auto build reop you did Oz and it still works fin for those with VS pro
		at least for me
	Jonathan	It is failing for Express though, those missing .h files
	Oz Linden	ah... good... let's go over that here today, but I'd like to go over the autobuild issues first
07:04	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok
	Twisted Laws	as long as autobuild configure works and i can compile with the IDE i'm fine
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	didn't get to try autobuild, yet
	Wolfpup	i was having issues with the missing h files till i made an adjustnemt to the ide
	Jonathan	Wolfpup, that is not a long-term solution I think
	Cummere Mayo	is there a jira about the h files somewhere?
	Twisted Laws	what'd u change in the ide, wolfpup?
	Jonathan	It was mentioned on the mailing list cummere
07:05	Oz Linden	no, it's not a long term solution, but it may be enough to do the merge
	Wolfpup	twisted add extra folders ti the includes and libs f under optiond
	Oz Linden	first things first... I did a pass over the exisiting wiki docs on Autobuild this morning
07:06		I'd appreciate review/commentary/suggestions/fixes for all the pages linked from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Autobuild
		at your lesiure, of course
	Wolfpup	Twisted look up the viewr2_microsoft wiki
	Oz Linden	We don't yet have a page specifically on building the viewer with autobuild, but I'm going to start that today
07:07		will send a note to the list when it's up
	Twisted Laws	i already had them in the includes/libs, thanks
07:09	Oz Linden	So... the status of OPEN-1
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1 OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express
07:10	Oz Linden	Do we believe that we have an acceptable workaround if we modify the autobuild.xml in the viewer to make a configuration specifically for Express ?
	Wolfpup	Jonathan mabey the SDK's your useing might not have the needed files
		that workaround dose look good Oz
	Jonathan	You will update that xml to have the other options, e.g. Release?
07:11	Oz Linden	I was thinking that we really don't need the others
		no one is going to build a Release viewer with Express
07:12	Jonathan	err, I do all the time
	Twisted Laws	it seems to me that something is ignoring the INCLUDE env variable
		i do all the time too
	Oz Linden	and as far as I know there isn't any real advantage to using Debug.... ?
	Wolfpup	Oz whant i do my confid i do it forthe normal configureation but then i build in release mode for the ide
	Twisted Laws	until autobuild i've always built release
	Jonathan	And I copy an existing shortcut to make a new shortcut, I really don't want to have to remember where my binary is and adjust it
07:13	Oz Linden	why? in any event, I hope to get a real fix that will let autobuild adapt to Express and use the normal configurations
	Twisted Laws	i share my builds with 2 or 3 other people and share the install that is built as well as changes
	Oz Linden	doesn't building in release mode loose symbols ?
	Jonathan	Also, before forcing WithDebug on us, it would be nice to do a timing test--1hr 15m to compile is already hard enough on me
07:14		And a link time of 6 minutes--I don't want more symbols, work done by the compiler, etc
	Wolfpup	the only way to do that would be for autobuild do like develop.py dose now and test for express
	Oz Linden	no one is forcing anything... let's not start that
	Jonathan	sorry, poor choice of words
	Twisted Laws	i've been building my own viewer for over 3 years and have never had unsurmountable issues till now :(
07:15	Oz Linden	My concern is that I dont' want to continue the combinatorial explosion of configurations
	Jonathan	I am curious about something--
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	make the config modular?
	Jonathan	Why are the options combined--it would make more sense to have Release + Opensource as 2 items
07:16	Oz Linden	would someone do a comparison of Release vs RelWithDebInfo of installability, installer size, and build-from-clean time using Express?
		yes, it would make sense, but autobuild does not support that (yet)
	Jonathan	I would do that test if I had an xml file with the Release settings
	Wolfpup	to me with pro the build times seem aboput the same for me
07:17	Jonathan	I guess I could just substitute Release for Rel with Dbg
	Oz Linden	yes, I believe that would do it, Jonathan
	Jonathan	ok, my cpu will be burning hot today
07:18	Wolfpup	yes CPU capacity dose make a difference in build times
	Oz Linden	please do that test and let us know the results. Unless there is a substantial cost to leave in the debug info, I'd prefer to use that so that we have one target that's usable for either purpose
		as long as both builds are done on the same system, I'm prepared to believe the test will be valid
07:19	Jonathan	oh wait, I cannot test, there is the issue of the.h files
	Wolfpup	the thing is when you build a release with debut the viewer is set to auto start the debug loging consol window
	Oz Linden	That issue being that the build only works when you run it from within the IDE, and not when you run the 'autobuild build' command?
07:20	Wolfpup	which is the same information that is in the secondlife.log file
	Jonathan	I have not tried the combination of autobuild configure + ide compile -- autobuild build fails with missing .h files
	Wolfpup	im talking about outside the ide when you do an relwithdebinfo build
	Oz Linden	sigh
07:21		ok.... let's back up
	Twisted Laws	i notice the build directory is in a different directory with autobuild
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	brb
	Oz Linden	I want to know if the autobuild configuration works
	Jonathan	Yes on Express
	Wolfpup	works here
	Oz Linden	I really really really do not care about any other way of doing it
	Twisted Laws	it fails 2 tests for me
	Oz Linden	I really really really do not want to talk now about any other way of doing it
	Twisted Laws	they were in one of the emails...
	Jonathan	Twisted, the configuration fails?
	Twisted Laws	i don't have that issue when i use cmake .
07:22		no the compile fails 2 tests
	Oz Linden	Twisted -- please stop confusing the issue
	Jonathan	Please don't make Oz crazy--let's stick with just autobuild
		so all agree autobuild configure works?
	Wolfpup	Twisted i think your problem is that your useing the cgwin console and not the windows cmd window
	Twisted Laws	when i autobuild configure, it builds in a different directory and the compile with the ide fails 2 tests
07:23		when i configure with cmake ., the tests pass
	Oz Linden	In fact, the configure step is essentially optional I think.... if you run the build command on a configuration you have not yet run the configure step for, it runs that step for you automatically
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	back
	Oz Linden	Twisted.... last warning... if you continue I'm going to get annoyed
07:24	Wolfpup	then it basicaly runs develop.py with a different target dir then
	Oz Linden	If there is a problem on some systems or configurations with just running 'autobuild build -c VCexpressRelWithDebInfo' , then I want to know what they are.
	Cummere Mayo	is so lost anyways so running afk while she changes
	Wolfpup	or at least some thing similar
07:25	Jonathan	Oz, did you see those emails about the 2 .h files?
	Oz Linden	Please add comments to OPEN-1 about those issues if there are any
		Next issue...
		OPEN-4
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-4 OPEN-4 As an Open Source Developer, I would like to use Fmod in the autobuild system if i have the needed files already
07:26	Oz Linden	I'm going to meet later today with some Lindens and try to work out a solution to this that's good enough....
	Wolfpup	there is a posible solution also listed in open-6
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-6 OPEN-6 Add support to autobuild for local archives as dependencies and as targets
07:27	Oz Linden	it's possible that will initially just be documentation on how to manually put the fmod distribution in the right place, but we'll see if we can do better than that
	Wolfpup	i added it there last nigh
	Oz Linden	Right - that's part of what open-6 is about
	Wolfpup	as it would cover all 3p libs
07:28	Oz Linden	I don't think that I understood your suggestion, Wolfpup, but I'll give it another read later
07:29	Jonathan	What did you think of my idea to have an environment vairable point to those fmod files?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	is the FMOD issue the same as before autobuild (i.e. non-public download location)?
	Wolfpup	basicaly opensource the autobuild 'wrabper for fmod' and then let the OS devs that use it load the source files into it
07:30	Oz Linden	An important part of what autobuild is about is reducing the need for so many command line options
07:31		I do think that it might be interesting to be able to locally override autobuild package settings from the file either from the command line or from the environment, but specifying them would be complex
	Wolfpup	and i was sugesting to make a folder in the autobuild sustem that would stor all 3p libs/includes and have a sincle file that autobuild would monitor for seeing if it needed to load files from the local folder or fetch them from online
	Oz Linden	for now, I think that the ability to have a modified configuration file might be enough, and I have the change for that done (open-7)
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-7 OPEN-7 autobuild: add selection of the config-file using an environment variable
07:32	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	many command line options? The only ones of which there are plenty are the -D... stuff, but I don't see how autobuild would reduce those.
07:33	Oz Linden	used correctly, autobuild should eliminate the need for the -D options
	Jonathan	Oz, for Express I had to go through a convoluted process to set up to use the 3 msvc80* files, and that requires either an env variable or dropping them into the build tree
	Oz Linden	because they'll all be in the autobuild configuration
		please document that in open-1, jonathan
07:34	Jonathan	ok, it's in the how-to-build wiki
		but I will make it clearer
	Oz Linden	we'll move it to a wiki page as soon as we believe we've got a stable solution
	Wolfpup	right now if you try to use -DFMOD=TRUE it will also set -DPRIVATEBUILD=TRUE and OS devs do not need that
	Oz Linden	I don't want the wiki docs on how to build the viewer modified for autobuild yet, please
		please file an issue on that, Wolfpup
07:35	Cummere Mayo	get it working consistantly first, then document?
	Jonathan	Clarification--I will make the steps clearer in open-1
	Oz Linden	exactly, Cummere
	Wolfpup	i think the OS autobuild wiki for the viewer should be its own page
	Cummere Mayo	+1 wolfpup
	Oz Linden	What I want to do is set up the viewer build documentation this way:
	Wolfpup	like there are ones for linux, mac, and windows
07:37	Oz Linden	1 page that has: links to platoform-specific environment setup pages, a section on how to download the viewer repo, a section (very short) on how to run the autobuild command, and a section with platform-specific links on how to run your test viewer
		.has to step away for a moment.... home interrupt
07:39		I'm back
	Wolfpup	wb
07:40	Oz Linden	(had to help w/ the garage door ... melting snow keeps popping the GFI breaker that the garage door is on)
	Wolfpup	it is ok
		GFI breakers are a good thing they help pervent fire and getting shicked
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	what did I miss? my laptop decided to spontaneously shut down due to hot CPU :-\
07:41	Eddi Decosta	hi there:)
	Wolfpup	hey eddi
	Cummere Mayo	sounds like you have a wire short somewhere then oz
	Oz Linden	so... I'd _really_ like to get the autobuild branch merged this week, so please do the tests and document where we are in open-1
07:42	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	has anyone tested it on Linux 64bit, yet, or is that up to me?
	Wolfpup	well for VS Pro open-1 good to go
	Oz Linden	no, there is an outdoor outlet that the ice gets into... which is what GFI breakers are for....
07:43		not that I know of, Boroondas
	Cummere Mayo	ah. dont have a snow cover for it oz?
	Oz Linden	I don't know if enough of the dependencies are available yet to do that, but by all means try standalone
	Wolfpup	Broondas test it in non-standalone and stanalon if you can
07:44		Oz those outdoors outlets might have bad seal and need to be replaced
07:45	Oz Linden	Cummere... I wanted to go back to your list, but I don't see the email
	Cummere Mayo	let me try resending
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	What is the command to use autobuild with standalone?
	Oz Linden	I've replaced the seals.... it only happens a couple of times a year...
07:46		there are standalone configurations in the config file
		(I think)
		OpenSourceStandalone...
	Wolfpup	yes there are
	Cummere Mayo	resent
	Wolfpup	OpenSourceStandAlone is how they start
07:47	Eddi Decosta	hi tech
	Oz Linden	Let's make going over that list our agenda for the Wednesday meeting (hopefully by then the autobuild stuff will be merged)
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	merged to viewer-dev?
	Wolfpup	< will miss the wensday meeting as he will be @ RL work
07:48	Oz Linden	yes, that's what I meant, Boroondas
		Any non-autobuild issues today?
	Cummere Mayo	well im not even sure how much of that is build tools and how much i confused with it.. so thats why i sent it to you now before i went any further
	Wolfpup	Broondas Oz has a merged repos that is the current viewer-development + autobuild
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	what's the status of VWR-24487? Any ETA on the decision on that?
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24487 VWR-24487 llurlentry_stub.cpp:196: error: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
07:49	Oz Linden	no decision yet, but....
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(If it'll take long, we should probably use the quick-and-dirty cast-to-non-const fix in the meantime)
	Oz Linden	Team Chopper is in the process of converting all our sources to be VS2010 compatible, and...
		in the process we're getting a lot of things cleaned up
07:50		the problem I have with changing the file in the viewer tree is that it's supposed to be generated from the template, the _real_ version of which is in the simulator sources
07:51	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	yeah
	Oz Linden	so what I want to get done is apply the fix to the template processing in the sim tree, and check in the fixed result in the viewer tree
		hoping to do that during the VS2010 cleanup
07:52		which we hope will be finished in the next 2-3 weeks - that is in no way a promise
	Wolfpup	one thing for shure there will need to be some adjustments needed for VS2010
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	though, probably instead of keeping that header in sync, we should keep the message template in sync and generate the header as part of the viewer build? as it is now, the message template and the header can be (and are currently) out of sync in the viewer source tree.
07:53	Oz Linden	actually, what I'd like to do is remove the template from the viewer tree completely
	Wolfpup	VS2010 dose not have an options to add specific default include, exe, and lib folders
	Oz Linden	and just put a comment in the generated file that documents that it comes from the sim tree build
07:54	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	isn't the template also used for ensureing protocol compatibility outside of these headers?
	Cummere Mayo	hey oz I have a question for you though im not sure if youre able/allowed to answer it
07:55	Oz Linden	I don't know what other hurdles we'll face with the VS2010 conversion... the current semi-plan is to get a lot of Lindens in a room and have a hackaton to do most of it in one go...
		I don't know, Boroondas... need to investigate more deeply
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok ...
	Oz Linden	ask away, Cummere
	Wolfpup	would not being in on that hackathing
07:56	Cummere Mayo	why is it that LL is refusing to crack down on devices like the one in VWR-24746 that rip ip and or mac addresses and make publically availible lists of "alts"
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24746 VWR-24746 Ban ZFRedzone
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Until the real issue gets tickled, can we take in the quick fix of casting the literal to non-const? It'd be nice to be able to build without having to modify the repo.
	Oz Linden	I'm going to investigate incorporating open devs into the hackathon... when I know more about when & how it will happen, I'll let you know
07:57		Sorry, Cummere... you're right... not something I can discuss except to say that it's a complicated issue that does get discussed within LL from time to time
	Wolfpup	< would hope it is on his day off from his RL job
07:58	Cummere Mayo	can you please point the right people to that jira?
	Oz Linden	I'll discuss the template/const issue with Q and get back to you
	Jonathan	I hope Robin C can be part of that hackathon
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Hackatron might be difficult for community devs, due to timezone etc.. But be sure to check jira and mailing list for existing fixes.
07:59	Oz Linden	Yes, one of the things I have to do between now and whenever it is is to collect existing fixes....
		will probably ask for help on that
	Cummere Mayo	im doing my best on that. :-/
	Jonathan	Dealing with the various incarnations the msvc* files is a real pain
08:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Jonathan	That is Robin's area of expertise
	Oz Linden	I'll put participation in the hackathon on our next meeting agenda too
08:01	Cummere Mayo	i wish i knew of an easy way other then commenting (which still gets lost) to tag a jira with soemthing bright and noticable that says the fix is there
	Wolfpup	will be happy when open 4,6, and 9 are in the autobuild system
	Oz Linden	Ok folks... our time is up today... I've got some other things to attend to, and you've got autobuild tests to run....
	Office Orb	End transcription
	Jonathan	oz, see my last comment on open-1
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1 OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express