Community Tools User Group/24-Mar-2011

13:00	Kung Fu Marketer	hey lord, welcome back!
		and qie--hey there. welcome.
	Suspiria	Give it up, you're not in my league
	Qie	hi everybody. :)
	Tomkin Euler	well, maybe torroidal..
	Marianne McCann	waves at Qie
	Venus Petrov	awesomesauce
	draconis.neurocam	thinks its a circular room and corners are merely arbitrary
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, we ready to get the party started?
	Venus Petrov	hey Qie
13:01	DogWomble Dollinger	gets the streamers and balloons
	Kung Fu Marketer	good idea dog. :)
	Mags Indigo	does this mean the bitching will stop?
	Marianne McCann	digs for her old Phil Linden party hat
	Mags Indigo	I find that rather entertaining
	Venus Petrov	lol Mags
	Suspiria	If telling the truth is bitching I suppose so
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, first off. let me address the moderation discussion.
	DogWomble Dollinger	hi raymond
	Kung Fu Marketer	first, as i've said in previous weeks that we are still working closely with the moderators to find the right levels and clarify some broader rules of the road.
13:02		for example, at first the mods were giving warnings for sharing your favorite places in SL--and I have since made it very clear that this is what we want--that it's not advertising.
	Raymond Linden	Hi All
	Kung Fu Marketer	so that has since stopped.
		so, you're right in feeling that the mods have been too strict, in some aspects.
		i agree and i've asked them to losen up a bit.
13:03	Torben	Hi Raymond
	Kung Fu Marketer	over the last week, you should have seen an improvement there.
	Cummere Mayo	nope
	Kung Fu Marketer	second, we absoltuely do not play favorites.
	Suspiria	THat's not true
	Kung Fu Marketer	cummere--send me examples and i'll look into them.
	Suspiria	I sent you examples and nothing happened
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, cummere and suspiria--hold for a sec--let me finish, k?
	Suspiria	k
13:04	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, second, we do not play favorites. the mods don't know who you are and moderate based on our communty guidelines and what is reported in their "report inappropriate content queue"
		if you're being warned, that means that other residents have reported your post. period.
13:05		we don't look around searching for violations. we mainly only look at what's int eh queue and deal with spam (which raymodn will get to soon)
		he's got some updates...
		ok, third, the team here approves all bans prior to them being given.
		we look at the evidence and make an assessment.
		mods cannot ban anyone on their own. every.
		ever
13:06		there have been many cases that mods have contacted us and asked about bans/warnings and I've said--nope not warranted.
		somtimes, it is.
		usually has to do witht he actual content and how many resis have reported it as inappropriate.
	Suspiria	Great tag team moderation
13:07	Kung Fu Marketer	what has been happening--is that there's been a lot of bickering back and forth between two resis that disrupts the topic discussed.
	Venus Petrov	good to know mods cannot ban without review
	Kung Fu Marketer	thanks suspipria.
		that stuff is just disruptive and cannot go on.
	Youri Ashton	hello all
	DogWomble Dollinger	hey youri
	Torben	hey Youri
	Kung Fu Marketer	that said, there were some threads that were in good fun and were questioned, but we let them go.
		fun is good.
		banter is good.
		flaming other resi's (even ones you may not agree with or like) is bad
13:08		ok, think i'm done.
	Tomkin Euler	scribbles down a new word, "resi"..
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, questions?
	Venus Petrov	yes
	Kung Fu Marketer	unelss anyone else on the linden team wants to chime in...that is
		sure venus--go for it
		wassup?
	Venus Petrov	for goodwill sake would it be possible to forgive all but harassment and spam violations from the first week?
		it was a 'get used to it' week
		and many got profanity violations, for example
13:09	Kung Fu Marketer	hey, that's a good idea. yes, we can do that.
	Venus Petrov	great ty
	Lexie	I like it
	Suspiria	Too late for that isn't it?
	Kung Fu Marketer	i'll just let the mods know that they should disregard stuff from the first week.
	Venus Petrov	cool
	Mags Indigo	great
	Kung Fu Marketer	nope--we can make the decision right now and i just made it.
		:)
	Venus Petrov	i assume if there is a date attached, they would know
	Lexie	㋡
	Kung Fu Marketer	that is a fair poitn and i agree.
		yep.
13:10	Venus Petrov	ok and I know that you have been tweaking the bleeper
	Mags Indigo	rubs shoulders with Amanda - wonders if she has any influence on the land team
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, suspiria/cummere--unleash it.
		come on.
	Venus Petrov	but it is still somewhat annoying lol
	Lisa Fossett	Wait, Amanda...perhaps disregard is the wrong word? You want that content moderated if it's offensive...but you don't want bans/etc as a result...correct?
	Kung Fu Marketer	:)
	Cummere Mayo	okay i have four questions i want to post as a group is that okay?
	Suspiria	I won't say anything, I see your stance
	Kung Fu Marketer	well, we still have the record, but if it's up to a ban then the violations from first week wouldn't counte.
		count
13:11		it's a good idea.
	Mags Indigo	yes it is
	Kung Fu Marketer	sure cummere
	Cummere Mayo	This is to all the lindens here: Is it ever okay for a linden to threaten to give out rl name, city, and place of employment of a customer? Is it ever clear for a linden/mod to send a warning then to follow up with another email address referencing that warning and stating that if you report a person again there will be consequences? Is it ever okay for a linden/mod to use borderline or outright abusive language?
	Mags Indigo	shows some flexibility as people got used to the new system
	Arawn Graalrd	wonders if Tourettes might become an issue.
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, cummere. good questions.
	DogWomble Dollinger	well as long as a bit of commonsense applies :) as in if it is a genuine bannable offence etc.
13:12	Kung Fu Marketer	first, it is never ok for a linden to discuss exposing personal information.
	Lexie	never!
	Kung Fu Marketer	that is clearly against our policy and if this is happening, then i need to be alerted immediately!
		your private info is private. period.
	Venus Petrov	or those in your employ, correct?
	Arawn Graalrd	If a mod gets abusive, they'd be users as much as any Linden, and reportable as such
	Kung Fu Marketer	if you feel a mod is abusive, then please also let me know.
		amanda@lindenlab.com.
	Suspiria	Alerts don;t work if emails don't get returned
13:13	Kung Fu Marketer	they have standard langauge that they use, and i would be surprised to see abusive language in their communication with you.
		but, i won't tolerate that from them--or from anyone.
		any other lindens want to join in here?
	tabibhob	HI
	Kung Fu Marketer	thinks i'm IMing too much. :)
	Torben	hi tabib :)
	Raymond Linden	agred on all your points Amanda
	Marianne McCann	welcome to Second Life, tabibhob
	Venus Petrov	so this is an example where discussing the moderation is ok, yes?
	Kung Fu Marketer	the bottom line is--you're right cummere.
	Lisa Fossett	Hi, Tabib...I have sent you a private message...look on your screen in the lower right.
	DogWomble Dollinger	well not wanting to cause an explosion, i'm sure with recent 'events' you guys will be taking that dsort of thign seriusly if ineed it is true?
	Kung Fu Marketer	it's unacceptable.
	tabibhob	HI
13:14	DogWomble Dollinger	wrt privacy issues?
	Lexie	yes I agree as well and have heard some of you mention fear of getting in trouble because you have these kinds of questions. Please ask them. Its ok.
	Kung Fu Marketer	YES dog.
	bob Iwashi	greetings and salutations
	Youri Ashton	i rather have the experience that either mole, linden or mod, it doesnt matter if abusive, rude, etc, they simply dont get punished at all
	Suspiria	I know what happens when you ask questions
	Cummere Mayo	thats my experince as well youri
	Youri Ashton	how does that translate to now and the furture?
	Kung Fu Marketer	you get answers, i assume.
13:15	Youri Ashton	sorry to say, it may sound not nice towards the lindens here, but a lot have the same question
	Suspiria	Nope I got punished
	Kung Fu Marketer	you're allowed to ask the mods questions--about moderation. you are not allowed to call them names or ause them tho.
		ok, youri--you're seeing nothign being done?
		when someone is out of line?
	Suspiria	Yep
	bob Iwashi	well, the one of you guys i had a aproblem with went last year anyways amanda
	Youri Ashton	amanda, it is not our language usage towards them, its them towards us ;)
	Suspiria	I sent examples, over 50
	Kung Fu Marketer	report the post.
	Slatan Dryke	greetings
13:16	Kung Fu Marketer	suspiria--i didn't see abuse there--i did read it.
		sorry, i disagree.
	Suspiria	When I reported the posts I got a mod letter threatening a ban
	Kung Fu Marketer	yes, that's their job.
	Marianne McCann	Hey Slatan
	Cummere Mayo	Ive seen three posts very polite on the forums in feedback where people said they didnt feel safe. those threads were pulled, the users warned for "harassment" and in one case a private im sent saying the poster was such a bitch
	Kung Fu Marketer	if you have violations, then you are in peril of a one week ban or more...
		you can't call the poster a bitch
13:17	Youri Ashton	lindens, moles and mods are also humans, so they could always make a mistake just like any of us. however out of experience this is not taken into account and actually punished where normal users do get punished, or even banned
	bob Iwashi	please, can we have a flameless meeting? nice and boring would be nice
	Mags Indigo	IMs can of course be 'tweaked' for sympathy - I've seen that a thousand times
	Suspiria	The problem is the warnings aren't fairly handed out
	Mags Indigo	not saying anyone here would do that of course
	Tiamat Bingyi	hi everybody (im using a chat based viewer...so i have no idea wich avatar im wearing or if im in an inapropriate place. - sorry)
	Cummere Mayo	mags the screenshot is posted on slu
	Youri Ashton	it isnt flaming, its unfortunately the harsh truth
	Kung Fu Marketer	yes, warnings are fairly handed out. again, it's all based on resi's reporting content.
	Mags Indigo	don't go there
		why would I?
	Kung Fu Marketer	if the content is not reported, then we don't see it.
	Mags Indigo	and by god I've seen tweaked screenshots too
		:-)
	Kung Fu Marketer	there's so much content out there--hundreds and thousands of posts to indiividually go through--impossibe.
13:18	Mags Indigo	esp when it comes to financial dealings
	Suspiria	So someone making a personal attack, naming you isn't against the CPG?
	bee Baroque	hi tiamat, you look fine, with hooves and horns :)
	Cummere Mayo	amanda then may i ask why threads where the user's said they just didn't feel safe are getting warned? thats kinda proving thier point isnt it?
	Kung Fu Marketer	yes it is. you cant call someoen a bitch in the paltform, period.
	Venus Petrov	not if they are responding directly to a post of yours
		using your name
	Kung Fu Marketer	there's a normal adjustment period. we had very little moderation going on in jive.
13:19	Suspiria	But they can make fun of my Russian heritage and to you it isn't worthy of a warning
	Kung Fu Marketer	a lot more moderation now. so, everyone's getting used to it.
		ok, susupira. that flag.
		let's take that offline. k?
		don't need to discus in large group
	Suspiria	grrr
	Cummere Mayo	happens to the irish too
		and to christians
	Kung Fu Marketer	and, btw--i'm russian too.
	Mags Indigo	grins - don't I know it
	Cummere Mayo	and conservatives
13:20	Mags Indigo	water off a ducks back as it were
	Cummere Mayo	those four groups its open season
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, do most folks feel that i've answered their questions re: moderation?
	Suspiria	Yep with no repercussions
	Cummere Mayo	no amanda
	Youri Ashton	doesnt matter where you are from amanda, your still our sweet amanda ;)
	Kung Fu Marketer	:) awwwe.
	Venus Petrov	ok about the language bleeper, you are tweaking it...but can it recognize terms used in a junior biology text as alright to print?
	Mags Indigo	to be honest I've seen most groups get a teasing that might have stepped a bit too far from time to time
	Kung Fu Marketer	blushes
	Tiamat Bingyi	:)
	Youri Ashton	pets amanda ^_^
13:21	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, think that raymond can talk to language stuff.
	Marianne McCann	I know that feeling, Mags
	DogWomble Dollinger	do i need to get the flame suit ready amanda?
	bee Baroque	peewee \o :)
	Cummere Mayo	i want to know why its okay for mods to rip down threads where people politely said in the forum feedback they dont feel safe becuase of the mods?
	Mags Indigo	some people are a bit more sensitive than others and I also find it can depend on who makes the remarks
	Youri Ashton	hey peewee, its about time you showed up :p hehe
	Mags Indigo	if there's 'history' it can seem worse
	Marianne McCann	blows a raspberry.
	Kung Fu Marketer	cummere--you can't flame mods--part of our community platform guidelines.
	Peewee Musytari	yay hey hey Bee :)
	Cummere Mayo	thats not flaming the mods
	Suspiria	It's not about sensitivity, it's about repeated violation nothing is done about
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, raymond--go for it re: language blacklist.
	Peewee Musytari	hi all sorry I`m late
	Cummere Mayo	thats providing feedback
	Kung Fu Marketer	np peewee. welcome.
	Youri Ashton	sithdown hon :)
	Raymond Linden	Yeah, we can tweak the language smut filter.
13:22	Venus Petrov	so terms like nipple and penis are ok?
	Lord of Dee	The language filter is alarming
	Mags Indigo	violation can be in the eyes of the person seeing it
	Lexie	It is using a standard "list" but we can review it
	Venus Petrov	dyke?
	Mags Indigo	1 person can see violation - 100 others see nothing wrong
	Lord of Dee	Dick Van Dyke is a nightmare
	Suspiria	@Mags there is no standardization
	Venus Petrov	laughs
	Mags Indigo	you talking to me Venus??
	Venus Petrov	poor him
		no
		hehe
13:23	Mags Indigo	:p
	Jetpack Backpack	Please type 'X help' for more help with commands
	Raymond Linden	yes, if there are words in question, please let me know. PM me
	Tomkin Euler	tries to visualise a typical use case where those words would be useful..
	Venus Petrov	of course, when one wishes to discuss adult items that are sold in SL
	Mags Indigo	and to be honest it's also about normal language
		I'm assuming everyone with access to the forum is 16+
	Venus Petrov	they should be
	Kung Fu Marketer	and there are cases where we had banned words that aren't banned.
	Marianne McCann	Blacklists of language are always a nightmare. I recall that from working on AOl more years ago than I care to admit
	Kung Fu Marketer	example is damn.
	DogWomble Dollinger	well one would hope so mags :)
13:24	Kung Fu Marketer	not really a bad word. that's off hte list now, right raymond?
	Mags Indigo	'protecting' them from words such as lesbian, dyke and some other common usage words seems a bit... unreal
	Marianne McCann	(When higher ups got the idea that "breat" was a good word to blacklist)
	Kung Fu Marketer	and that was based on resi feedback.
	Marianne McCann	"breast*"
	Venus Petrov	in that spirit, i would once again like to request a Mature subforum where things like sexual orientation can be discusssed, adult consumer items sold in SL..etc
	DogWomble Dollinger	i'll second that venus
	Cummere Mayo	i wouldnt even mind breast if breasted wasnt also cut
	Mags Indigo	lots of 16-18 years olds are gay
13:25		bless them
	Kung Fu Marketer	venus, there's a private forum for adult merchants/business ownes.
	Tomkin Euler	I hought there was one.. adult..
	Marianne McCann	Cummere - I'm sure the Relay For Life folks would have a bit to say about it
	Venus Petrov	but not for residents
	Lord of Dee	It's like something out the 1950's this language filter, where did you get it from?
	DogWomble Dollinger	keeping it "PG" in a way is sensible in the sense that it's "web viewable", but at the same time is a bit restrictive when it comes to certain topics
	Cummere Mayo	and it was ammusing last week that my user name was on the blacklist
	Venus Petrov	i am asking for one for residents please
	Kung Fu Marketer	i like the idea of an LBGT community form, but it's tough....
	Suspiria	Everyday language isn't G
	Mags Indigo	yeah - trying to find it though is a nightmare
	Marianne McCann	I'm sure that oMosely Sperber will bring up the sculpted birds he sells, too
	Mags Indigo	Walt Disney?
	Kung Fu Marketer	let us pow-wow on that one k, venus?
	DogWomble Dollinger	hahaha marianne
	Mags Indigo	bites her tongue
	Cummere Mayo	everyday language is moderate
	Suspiria	I see
	Venus Petrov	sure
13:26	DogWomble Dollinger	i've seen tha sign ... "these birds are not adult content"
	Marianne McCann	It's just... a minefield, blacklists
	Lord of Dee	Ha didn't think to see if we could talk about Moseley's products
	Suspiria	Now I get it
	Venus Petrov	if we can buy the stuff in SL, we should be able to discuss it
	Marianne McCann	Ya, DogWomble. He had his marketplace stuff labeled adult recently, too
	Venus Petrov	and the gay community lives here, too
	Marianne McCann	But it's also a good example
	DogWomble Dollinger	whispers: hmmmm, bit of a literal usage then?
	Suspiria	Silenced
	Kung Fu Marketer	it's a great idea--but let us pow-wow on it our side, k?
	Cummere Mayo	dyke maybe shouldnt be allowed but gay, lesbian, bisexual?
	Kung Fu Marketer	let's pick it up next week when we on the linden side can discuss.
13:27	Venus Petrov	ok good ty
	Mags Indigo	why not dyke?
	Cummere Mayo	that some places is still an insult
	Mags Indigo	<-- old dyke and proud to be thank you
	Lord of Dee	So the little boy who put his finger in a dyke is no longer general? This is silly
	Kung Fu Marketer	:)
	Mags Indigo	only if you allow it to be
	Arawn Graalrd	Communty Standareds inword won't allow us to search for the inventor of Ivory Soap
	Cummere Mayo	mags some lesbians really do hate the word. others lvoe it... but eh
	Marianne McCann	Dyke" is sometimes used as a reclaimed term within their community e.g. the "Dyke March"
	Youri Ashton	lol, okay, i must have missed something, why we talking about dykes now?
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, moving along the agenda. :)
	Tiamat Bingyi	:)
13:28	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, next is clarification re: third-party sites.
	Mags Indigo	we're just lucky I guess Dog
	Lexie	(good feedback on that, ty)
	DogWomble Dollinger	well i can kidna see one problem .... there's about a billion words that could cause this sorta debate
	Mags Indigo	ack sorry Youri
	Kung Fu Marketer	often it's associted with advertising--that's the thinking behind it.
	Mags Indigo	too many names for slow eyes
	Kung Fu Marketer	but, raymodn and lexie should chime in too
	Venus Petrov	have there been any numbers run on forum usage since the rollout compared to the former GD?
	Youri Ashton	lol, np mags :)
	Lord of Dee	There are some clearly obvious adult words, that's where the filters should stop.
	Second Life	Items successfully shared.
13:29	Lexie	Venus, we will know more after a full month
	Mags Indigo	I think there's a few too many sub forums
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, answered that one.
	Mags Indigo	it makes the whole thing too disjointed
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, premium members consiage type support panel.
	Mags Indigo	everyone in their own little world
	Venus Petrov	ok will they be published? or shared here or somewhere?
	Kung Fu Marketer	that's a good idea...interesting.
		not sure if it's do-able.
	Cummere Mayo	why not?
	Lexie	Venus, Not sure actually! I will find out
	Venus Petrov	thank you
13:30	Kung Fu Marketer	raymond, don't premium members still have live chat in the support portal? not sure...
	bob Iwashi	yes we do
	Cummere Mayo	we do ... but its burried
	Raymond Linden	yes
	bob Iwashi	but we get stuck withthe couts
		scouts*
	Cummere Mayo	and support thinks our page looks like consierge
	DogWomble Dollinger	amanda i've use live chat , but it's not easy to find
	Kung Fu Marketer	:)
	Mags Indigo	yes I was on it today
	Lisa Fossett	Support links are much harder to find now
	bob Iwashi	who are only marginally better than the ontynes were
	Cummere Mayo	and so do allot of lindens
	Mags Indigo	they said 'no'
		sigh
	Kung Fu Marketer	yeah, that's an issue. we need to redo that page.
	Mags Indigo	feels aggrieved
	bob Iwashi	me too mags
	Youri Ashton	cummere, a lot of lindens are actually fired, there are not that many left ;)
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, so lexie is right--let's look into it and leave it on the agenda for next week. we should have a better understanding of what's do-able.
13:31	Cummere Mayo	and hoenstly paying for for primium memberships i expect top level access to live and tickets
	bob Iwashi	if i wanted to speak to a 3rd parry company i;d call them directly
		isntead of them, reading me an obviously scripted answer
	Kung Fu Marketer	well, keep inmind that there are only 220 of us lindens.
	bob Iwashi	that's even less use than before
	Kung Fu Marketer	we're a pretty small company and there are hundreds of thousands of you.
		:)
13:32	Venus Petrov	that is not a complaint, i take it..smiles
	Youri Ashton	i rather see that you get more L$ for your RL money
	Cummere Mayo	i meant allot of lindens think that the premium level support page has live and tickets on the top level page ><
	bob Iwashi	a prety small company that does NOT lsiten to it;s customers amanda
	Tiamat Bingyi	WOW.. just 220 Lindens? ehhe
	Cummere Mayo	to clarify
	draconis.neurocam	and around 18 or so short looking at the list you are hiring for
	Kung Fu Marketer	yep, jsut 220
	DogWomble Dollinger	well i've dealt with two of them via live chat ... one was excellent and got it right, i knda wish i had the lgos from the other one because they'd asked me to AR a ghost prim
	Qie	Somebody needs to updated http://lindenlab.com/about ...."Headquartered in San Francisco, Linden Lab has more than 250 employees. "
	Tiamat Bingyi	i agree with Bob
	Suspiria	It disciplines them fast enough
	Kung Fu Marketer	yes, actually, qie. i've rewritten that site and it's being built now.
	Lexie	We are here listening now bob ㋡
	Kung Fu Marketer	hoping to get a new LL.com up soon.
	bob Iwashi	how the heck can it take 45 minutes to reqwuest a mainland region restart for free a ghost?
	Youri Ashton	i pay 50 euro for just (about) 14000L$, which is basically not going to happen since i only have 40 euro a week, and im sure a lot more have that problem
	Peewee Musytari	talking of the help page...is it possible to add a category to the popular help isssues for non-english speakers, directing them to the non-english fourms as there is no non-english help pages around...at least for some basic issues they could get peer to peer support?
	Qie	Thanks Amanda.
13:33	bob Iwashi	when it was lidnen support, 5 minutes!
	Kung Fu Marketer	peewee--briliant idea.
		yes--i'll take that action item.
	bob Iwashi	now you have to explain 5 ruddy times to the scouts how to use a pc let alone your problem"
	Youri Ashton	basically makes it impossible for those that are not rich at all
	Tiamat Bingyi	yeah..that would be great
	Raymond Linden	Peewee - yes, something we are aware of
	Rand	peewee - there are *some* non-English Knowledge Base articles
	Cummere Mayo	Rand... some of them are even accurate
13:34	bob Iwashi	sorry, but that's bad customer service
	Cummere Mayo	and yeah
	Qie	(btw, Peewee, after this meeting, the Community Translation user group is scheduled to meet for the first time, in case it would be of interest.)
	Peewee Musytari	someone posted the vast drop in usage on the non -english forums and questions...we seem to have lost the germans I noticed....and they suggested maybe they can`t them
	Rand	Hopefully, more with help of the community translation project
	Cummere Mayo	yesterday i had to explain that a region being down is not a viewer issue to a scout
	Youri Ashton	hey tech
	Tiamat Bingyi	yes... i miss the TC work.. :)
	Techwolf Lupindo	Hi all
13:35	Mags Indigo	waves at Tech
	Cummere Mayo	can we please sometime have even a two time usergroup to talk about issues with scouts doing support?
	Youri Ashton	the first community translator OH is right after this OH
	Kung Fu Marketer	ok, the last item on the formal agenda is usage numbers....
	Youri Ashton	well, for those within the group :p
	Mags Indigo	down I would imagine
	Kung Fu Marketer	raymond, anything you care to share?
	Mags Indigo	though maybe it justseems that way due to the lack of bitchfests and flame wars
	Kung Fu Marketer	lexie?
	Mags Indigo	and I guess spam doesn't count
	Youri Ashton	2bad lexie isn't with us this year :(
13:36	Raymond Linden	In terms of usage or general updates?
	Venus Petrov	well and content...real discussions have dropped
	Peewee Musytari	usage seems way down for answers section
	Lexie	We will have a better idea on usage numbers after a solid month
	DogWomble Dollinger	mags i'd be interested to see them, although given what seem to be a fair share of dramas, i'd take them with a grain of salt until things are worked out
	Venus Petrov	hummm wonders if that is too late lol
	Suspiria	Ossian has usage numbers
	Raymond Linden	Yeah, in a week or two we will have a good set of data
	Cummere Mayo	well when you get warned for linking someone to an outside site with a howto guide people dont want to answer
	bob Iwashi	amanda, may i make a suggestion/request?
	Kung Fu Marketer	sure bob
13:37	Peewee Musytari	and a lot more posting a question and never coming back...I don`t know if they can`t find their question, or how to repost on it maybe.....are emails of answers off by default now?
	Lexie	Yes Peewee
	Cummere Mayo	they are peewee
	Lisa Fossett	yes, emails are off by default
	bob Iwashi	please, and i appreciate it may not be you or your colelagues here, but could you ask whomever it is, that deals with support, to maybew consider an OH or two to address some of our concernes ref the support, or perceived lack of it?
	Cummere Mayo	which is stupid
13:38	Youri Ashton	no tech, thats fake Jon Linden, its placed by Jeremy because we all missed the guy around some time ago :p
	Lord of Dee	Emails should be off by default. Explaining how to put those options on should be clearly stated though.
	Raymond Linden	We are lookng into making the email box checked by default when posting
	Cummere Mayo	ty raymond
	Kung Fu Marketer	raymond/rand, do you want to take bob's suggestion?
	Lord of Dee	Emails on by defaulty is an awful practice
	Mags Indigo	agrees with ciaran
13:39	Kung Fu Marketer	we don't have a user group for support. but, i can say that we've worked through almost all of the backlog and the resposne times should be getting much better.
	Venus Petrov	same
	draconis.neurocam	in that vein there really should be a search usergroup as well
	Peewee Musytari	its a good thing for someone posting a question..at least we know they got their answer
	bob Iwashi	it's not amanda, believe me
		it's getting worse
	Lexie	agreed Peewee
	Qie	On the topic of usage numbers: I wonder if it's a conscious decision not to link blog posts to discussions in the forums, as there were before. If Rodvik has a good blog post here soon, a link to a forums discussion could boost participation, and maybe some folks would stick around. (I don't really see the point of linking "View Article Reactions" to technorati, effectively demonstrating that nobody in the industry is talking about the SL blog)
	Kung Fu Marketer	kk, it's one of rod's top priorities. :)
	bob Iwashi	we (the long time users) are havign to explain to the scouts etc how stuff works
	Raymond Linden	bob - I can bring this up with Support
	Lisa Fossett	butts in her experence...her one hanging ticket has not had an update for almost a month now.
	Cummere Mayo	response times are horrible... better but horrible... the responses themselves... are a joke
	Peewee Musytari	we have posts and then lots of suggestions and we have no idea whats going on & they don`t get marked as answered
13:40	Cummere Mayo	actual conversation ive had more then once
	bob Iwashi	it's just not acceptable to be patronised by somebody when i've already done the ruddy groundwork for them
	Lord of Dee	They should make that choice, defaults like email messages should always be opt in
	Cummere Mayo	can you please restart this mainland region? "regions can only be restarted by thier owner"
		headdesks
	Marianne McCann	Ugh.... been there, done that Cummere
	DogWomble Dollinger	i've had the same thing cummere
13:41		particularly annoying after i spent 20 minutes explaining to them what a ghost prim was
	bob Iwashi	i was ghsoted 2 weeks ago, tried the usual suggestions, so i went to live chat on my prem acc, explained FOUR times the issue, i'd alrweady delted my cache manually, took 45 minutes to get a restart! and 3 different scouts had no clue whatsoever!
	Marianne McCann	"Well, the owner is Linden Lab, so I'm taking tothe estate owner right now"
	Mags Indigo	guys - this isn't the 'support meeting'
	Marianne McCann	Sorry....
	Lisa Fossett	Regards the email...I think the decision should be based on the new user. Those of us who know how to navigate the forums can turn off emails. Yeah, it might be an extra step, but think of the newbie who doesn't know how to find his topic again.
	Mags Indigo	much though I wish it were
	Kung Fu Marketer	yeah guys--we can't really address support issues her.
		e
	Lexie	+1 Lisa
	bob Iwashi	i agree Mags, but all we'd like is trhe relevant Linden to actually lsiten to us isntead of half answers
	Raymond Linden	Hey all - if we can focus back on the community site. I have some updates
	Lexie	Updates!
	Kung Fu Marketer	woot
	Youri Ashton	we can, wouldnt be usefull since there wont be answers :p
13:42	Cummere Mayo	exactly lisa
	DogWomble Dollinger	i like updates!
	Kung Fu Marketer	go for it raymond
	Marianne McCann	Updates +1
	Raymond Linden	ok, where to start!
	Tiamat Bingyi	updates? :D weeee
	Lord of Dee	Plain issue here, email on by default is bad practice, there were loads of complaints about this when we had Jive.
	Arawn Graalrd	makes note: Support is unspeakable. I'm glad I never bother them
	Peewee Musytari	yay raymond...did you get rid of "comments"? hehe
	Raymond Linden	So, we are currently working on getting the Reply to post work completed
	Torben	yay for that
13:43	Raymond Linden	It is currently in development, so I am hoping it will be completed by next meeting
		Spam . .. .
	Techwolf Lupindo	munches on the spam
	Lisa Fossett	cure for the nuisance email: put the instructions on how to turn it off in the email signature.
	Raymond Linden	So, we made quite a bit of adjustments on the back end and stopped quite a bit of it. But, there is still spam getting through.
13:44		We are aware and working through it
	Lexie	We will beat the spam!
		㋡
	Lisa Fossett	yay!
	Marianne McCann	That seats taken, davidsp
	Raymond Linden	Image spam is now an issue
	Mags Indigo	yes - wasted does his best - it's almost admirable how dedicated he is
	DogWomble Dollinger	beats the spam with a stick
	Kung Fu Marketer	go dog
	Lord of Dee	Just put how to turn replies on via email in the forum.
	mudbug Cooperstone	only good spam comes in a can lol
	Youri Ashton	serves lexie a plate with spam. enjoy your dinner ma'am ;) hehe
	Tiamat Bingyi	hehehe
	Marianne McCann	Mags - I sorta like him. It's nonsensical, but still...
	Kung Fu Marketer	and even that is questionable.
	Lexie	haha Youri
	Raymond Linden	We have added/modified some of the sub-forums
	Youri Ashton	^_~
13:45	Raymond Linden	Also, working on the logon issue - the one where when you logon you are taken to the top level Blog page
	Mags Indigo	nods at Marianne - but sometimes he can be downright nasty and abusive - MPD maybe
	Venus Petrov	wrt subforums, will there be a review say in six months to see what are active ones and the less or non-active ones subsumed into others?
	Raymond Linden	That work is being scoped at the moment
	Marianne McCann	Agreed, Mags. I saw what he did on SC MkII
	Raymond Linden	I am also working on a list of UI updates as well
13:46	Techwolf Lupindo	One comment i've seen posted/spoken somewhere: The general topic is gone from the forums, discussions has drop a bit due to all the new splinter groups.
	Tiamat Bingyi	oh?
	Marianne McCann	Oh ya. Will be nice to not always be hitting the blog page every hour or so
	Raymond Linden	Venus - sure, we can review
	Lexie	Makes sense
	Venus Petrov	thank you
13:47		i can see a day when you have to scroll pages of subforums
		who wants that?
	Raymond Linden	That is really all I have right now in terms of updates.
	Youri Ashton	its not just the forums techwolf, its office hours as well, a lot of oh's dissapeared and most of the ones that are there are hard to find out where, how, etc
	Venus Petrov	I would be happy if Mature could be in OffTopic, actually
13:48	Peewee Musytari	was there any progress on getting new posts to bump threads?
	Cummere Mayo	I dont mind lots of subforums as long as they are collected into a rather small set of main forums so that its at most 3 clicks to get where I want
	Raymond Linden	Peewee - not sure I understand?
	bob Iwashi	well, tiem to run, rl calls
	Youri Ashton	LL should invest in a good page that activly shows what is where, how late etc and actually pin it to the MAIN PAGE of sl wiki, instead of all hidden
	Peewee Musytari	so that new posts bump the thread back to top of topic list
	bob Iwashi	in my own rl job of providing support to people.............
13:49	Cummere Mayo	Raymond, standard for most forums is that threads with new posts are listed first....
		that isnt happening
	Youri Ashton	and then of course the mess it shows up in, its really not handy to read at all
	Lexie	You want sorted by latest post right?
	Cummere Mayo	yes
13:50	Raymond Linden	Is that the issue where Oh - the other thing brought up in the last meeting . . .
	Cummere Mayo	yeps
		its still sorting by creation
	Raymond Linden	was regarding the Latest Post showing in the widget was not the most recent post
	Liisa Runo	yes, everyone want that, every other forum always been working like that
	Rand	Youri: the User Groups page https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups is linked from wiki Main Page
	Youri Ashton	i broughed it up earlier yeah
	Rand	Do you find that hard to use?
	Raymond Linden	We are working on fixing that
13:51	Peewee Musytari	questions stay forever in the order they are posted, so you get new posts on page 5 of the topic list when something isn`t solved fast enough and the only option is to keep getting everything sent to email or searching old pages for new stuff
	Lexie	We know its a hot topic for you
	draconis.neurocam	theres usergroups that exist that still are not listed there, ie kelly's
	Rand	draconis - thx for letting me know... .I will fix that
13:52		UG leaders are *supposed* to update that page!
	Cummere Mayo	allot fo them need updated with the new po too
	Raymond Linden	These are all great ideas/suggestions. Some of the issues we can fix with some quick tweaks. Others are core platform changes which are much harder to update
	Cummere Mayo	since like q and a few others left
	Youri Ashton	rand: the page is indeed there, known to many, but it is more hidden away then you think. and besides that, its a mess to find out about things. I suggest making it in a calendar type page, so people can actually see what hour and what day holds what OH. instead of the current mess
	Marianne McCann	Needta run, have fun, all!
	Rand	Youri: the Google Calendar does that...
13:53	Torben	bye bye Marianne
	Lord of Dee	Bye mari
	Tiamat Bingyi	bye marianne
	Rand	It is embedded in the page...
	Marianne McCann	Bye Bye!!
	Mags Indigo	tc Mari
	Youri Ashton	besides that, the oh hud is pretty upset as well due to the odd behavior of the sl wiki page
	draconis.neurocam	in regards to the google calendar, you have to sign in to google to see all of the events
	Tiamat Bingyi	havent checked sl wiki lately
	Rand	And you can sort the table by any column you wish
	draconis.neurocam	some are not listed there if you are not
	DogWomble Dollinger	rand: if i get a chance i'll see if i can get something calendarish wrking as well
	Rand	draconis - i did not know that...i thik we should be able to address that... (?)
13:54		DogWomble - thx
	Cummere Mayo	one thing that would help
	Rand	I am totally open to improving the usability of that page!
	Youri Ashton	rand: I think you dont understand what i try to tell. I think you should download and try out Monzilla Sunbird. this shows a bit of what i mean. using that idea you can make it a lot easier to read :)
	Cummere Mayo	get the usergroups to have consistant formatting across the entries
13:55		it would help with sorting issues and stuff
	Rand	Youri: lets talk about it offline
	Youri Ashton	kk rand
	Cummere Mayo	and as said before you have some still listed as being owned by people no longer at LL
	Kung Fu Marketer	right.
		like q. good point.
	Rand	ok we will address that... easy enough
		who is handling Q's UG now?
13:56	Cummere Mayo	oz
	Kung Fu Marketer	oz
	Youri Ashton	and for that matter, that setup idea hs a lot more great assets that can be used. so, sure needs to get talked over :)
	Cummere Mayo	one is merov
		well one of them is oz
	Youri Ashton	Oz and Merov basically taking over such hours
	Cummere Mayo	ughh hurray for out of order posting
	Torben	it´s the same with JIRA projects by the way
	Tiamat Bingyi	i gotta go... ill miss CT meeting too.. if anybody could save the log (of CT meeting) i would love to have it...
	Rand	Ok i fixed that just now :-)
	Cummere Mayo	ty rand
	Tiamat Bingyi	thanks for everything and bye =)
	Rand	yw
13:57	Mags Indigo	CT?
	Kung Fu Marketer	bye all.
	Rand	bye
	Torben	Tiamat, I´ll post a transcript of CT
	Lexie	Bye for now and thanks!!
	Kung Fu Marketer	rand, you get the transcript?
	Rand	yes amanda, i got it
	Tiamat Bingyi	ty torben
	Kung Fu Marketer	fab.
	Suspiria	New blog post on the way
	Kung Fu Marketer	thanks all. another great session.
	Tiamat Bingyi	bye bye
	Kung Fu Marketer	suspiria--i'll look forward to it.
	DogWomble Dollinger	not a problem amanda :)
	Torben	bye all
	Cummere Mayo	ild like to say that aside from the support page for premiums, and a few bugs, the tech side of things is pretty good imo
	Venus Petrov	thanks Amanda, Lexie, Jeremy etc
	Mags Indigo	thanks various Lindens
	Kung Fu Marketer	thanks cummere. good to hear.
	Cummere Mayo	but with the mod mess, youre not gonna see me use it
	Youri Ashton	oh yeah rand, together with that suggestion for the agenda, it might be good to have a new OH hud that actually reads updates as well
	Torben	so, where is localization central again=
	Kung Fu Marketer	thanks all--we really appreciate yout aking the time to share thoughts.
13:58		lots of great ideas...
	Venus Petrov	knows who was working on her blog during the meeting lol
	Rand	Thanks all... cya next week
	Youri Ashton	think we better talk another time about that, may take a lot of time
	Raymond Linden	Later!